Review of Barker's Temple Mysticism

[@danlds17]

Wow, the "purposely deceptive" Hebrew language, put the vowels in accordingly to your theology. This is why e.g. "MLK" in the Hebrew can either be interpreted as Melech (king) or Moloch (god who requires infant sacrifice). Glad you see it this way. I've been (with the help of online scholars) considering the idea that the bible may have actually been written as Classical Greek literature, and written very late (cf. Russell Gmirkin, 270 BC ?). Some of the evidence for this, the Jewish settlement at Elephantine, who had no knowledge of Moses, Abraham, David, The Law, etc. (in spite of the fact that we've found many letters sent to /received from Jerusalem). Others have stated that the Hebrew language was simple (crude), having only about 8000 words, while the Classical Greek used over 100,000 words and was highly technical. All this would argue against the Hebrew being rendered into Greek, but rather vice versa. This idea is of course very explosive to established Judaism and Christianity.

[@Catholic-Perennialist]

Margaret Barker, in her lectures, has shown that the broader Hebrew diaspora followed a 1st temple canaanite religion and was not only not monotheistic, but often had no use for Moses. I've heard other scholars say that the Yahweh cult was massive and that the form it took in Jerusalem was a minority position that grew into judaism, all other adherents to yahweh becoming Christians over time. The old testament certainly finds its final form in the exile period. The library at Alexandria was perpetually translating everything it could get its hands on, so I have no trouble believing they eventually got a copy of the Hebrew scriptures. But I do think the septuagint represents a purer text than the Masoretic. The true religion of the "tribe" is esoteric and not explicated by the plain words of the text. They seem to worship a fallen sophia figure who has been exiled from the holy of holies called "Shekinah." There is good reason to associate her with Baphomet.

[@deusvult9372]

Yes the septuigent written by 72 scholars. Perhaps they created the old testament. Bringing in the second temple world order. Rewriting history. Combing the I am the father with a lesser God that appears in Genesis. Although I think the prophetic books were independent. It's the Torah that shares one source. At least the Torah we know of.

[@exquofonte]

What do you think of Pilate's supposed account of Jesus having golden hair and beard, in contrast to those with black hair around him?

[@Catholic-Perennialist]

I'm not quick to ascribe historicity to every aspect of even the canonical gospels, but it's entirely possible that Jesus was fair haired, especially considering many Hebrews were known to be red heads (Edom, David). I would look more to the theological significance. Apocryphal accounts of Noah's birth describe him as remarkably fair, and Jesus is considered a second Noah saving humanity from another universal destruction.

[@Catholic-Perennialist]

@criticaloptimist7961 Much of this resonates with me. Sadly, we lost all this when orthodoxy became dominant. Truthfully, I think these doctrines were maintained as esoteric christianity by the adepts while the laity were fed the simplistic and unworkable nicene and chalcedonian formulas.

[@deusvult9372]

I agree. The orthodox is a simplified version for the common man. Now that human consciousness is evolving this information is reoccurring. Humans are drifting into ultimate physicalism. The hidden hand has caused the rediscovery of gnostic writings. In an attempt to balance spirituality and physicalism.

[@Catholic-Perennialist]

@@deusvult9372 I can remember the moment that I grew out of orthodoxy. I looked down at my well worn bible and asked, "Is this the only story you tell?" Once original sin collapses, all other doctrines fall with it. "In Adam all sinned" was explained as an allegory because it cannot be literally true; I wasn't there, you weren't there. So apparently I might be damned for an allegory, and Christ had to die for an allegory. I couldn't do it anymore.

[@deusvult9372]

@@Catholic-Perennialist the Adam and Eve story is a metaphor. A story of humanity going from a lower level of consciousness, to a higher state of awareness. Having this new level of consciousness creates further consequences. Original sin, is the primal instinct humans inherit. Modern science is a retelling of this story. Humans evolving from lesser primates to a higher intelligence.

[@Catholic-Perennialist]

@@deusvult9372 That's what I've been saying for a while now. Original sin is what is left over from our bestial nature. It's the greatest injustice to blame men for the raw materials they were constructed from.

[@deusvult9372]

@@Catholic-Perennialist I wouldn't say were condemned because of our flesh, rather God challenges us to become masters of our flesh. To connect to the divine mind and rise above the flesh. It's a different way to look at it.

[@byzantinedeacon]

I don't recall Heiser or Barker using emanation theology. For Heiser the Elohim are created, not emanations. For Barker when God manifests outside of the Unity of the First Day it is still God.

[@Catholic-Perennialist]

Elohim as intermediaries enacting God's will rather than God acting directly on creation is a major element of emanationism. I don't expect Heiser to have fully fleshed this out, or to even define a difference between creation or emanation. But seeing that Heiser believed Christ to be both an elohim, _and_ a divine Son, I suspect the line between emanation and creation was blurred for him. As to Barker, she absolutely writes of emanation when the singularity of god becomes multiplicity outside of the veil. It is the forms inscribed within the holy of holies and on the chariot throne which manifest in our reality. These manifested forms are still "God," but I don't see how this is inconsistent with emanation, unless you take emanation to be some third thing. Emanationism is the monad extruding into multiplicity held in contradistinction to creation ex nihilo. I don't really perceive of a third scheme that could possess much distinction from these two options. At issue is the question of whether creation is something truly distinct and external to God apart from a simple subject-object relationship imparted by multiplicity, or an extension of the deity himself.

[@EG-uv8fd]

15:38 Sorry but you have lost all credibility to elaborate on this subject here. Have you at least done the necessary intellectual work objectively to arrive at this conclusion? Have you compared the different studies that contradict this assertion? It is not enough to simply cite an author as the only source supporting your argument.

[@Catholic-Perennialist]

I've forgotten more than you'll ever know, so of course I've done the necessary intellectual work. But you should know that I'm only reviewing a book, not fully endorsing everything in it.

[@EG-uv8fd]

@@Catholic-Perennialist Well, you would be the first who persists in asserting a Jewish influence on Plato and not the other way around after having read Wajdenbaum or Gmirkin. It also seems that Barker sometimes backtracks on who influenced whom, notably by writing half-heartedly that the original author of the Book of Revelation is not really John of Patmos (since he only reworked pre-existing pagan oracles). However, she does not come to this final conclusion as openly as Ammon Hillman or Deleuze in his french preface to D.H. Lawrence's Apocalypse.

[@Catholic-Perennialist]

@@EG-uv8fd When i do a book review, I am not attempting to dispute every point the author makes. The Mediterranean was a small world in antiquity. It is not always easy to say who influenced whom, so I gave Barker the benefit of the doubt. The truth is that there is very little about hebrew culture that is not appropriated from somewhere else. Israel was a buffer state between Egypt and Sumeria for centuries, so it's culture shows a cross section of those two civilizations. Israel was purportedly enslaved by the Egyptians, and carried into exile by the Babylonians. They lived next door to Philistine Greeks who were purportedly from Caphtor, ancient Crete. They were invaded at one time or another by nearly everyone who was capable of doing so, and they in turn escaped into every nation of the known world. That their book became famous for its antiquity is understandable as few nations had produced a comprehensive national history so closely aligned to an ethnic religion. The Aeneid, for instance, wouldn't be produced until the reign of Augustus, and the Iliad was only one epic poem about one war, and even that several hundred years post exodus. The ancients held the Torah to be as old as Moses so it's easy to see why they might assume that wisdom traditions flowed from the Hebrews to the Greeks and Egyptians and not the other way around. For my studies it's more important to discover that multiple nations arrive at similar conclusions independently, as that supports the existence of a true perennial tradition which undergirds all faith.

[@EG-uv8fd]

@@Catholic-Perennialist Unfortunately, you cannot decontextualize rabbinic Judaism from its racial and spiritual exclusivism which makes it absolutely impervious to any idea of ​​sharing with other religions an original and founding doctrine. If I may, readings that I recommend to go even further on the subject: - Moshe Idel, ''Metamorphoses of a Platonic Theme in Jewish Mysticism''. And on the influence of Christianity on Kabbalah itself : - Arthur Green, ''Shekhinah, the Virgin Mary, and the Song of Songs: Reflections on a Kabbalistic Symbol in Its Christian Context''. - Yehuda Liebes, ''Christian influences in the Zohar'' in ''Studies in the Zohar'' (Suny Series in Contemporary Continental Philosophy), Chapter 3. Have a good day.

[@Catholic-Perennialist]

@@EG-uv8fd John Michael Greer, Dion Fortune and Pike, just to name three, would disagree, strenuously.