Review: Pettersson Symphony No. 8 (Not for the Depressed)

[@cy4194]

I had to do some serious cleaning today, so I pulled on some noise-cancelled headphones and cranked up Petterson's 8th. That two-note motif is really beautiful and, I think, makes the whole thing worthwhile. Though at the end of the 45 minutes I did find myself gazing at my spotless windows with mild despair.

[@seanhickey986]

I actually think Petterson's symphonies - as well as the Barefoot Songs - are near perfect for the depressed. One is never alone and they are reminders. The Sixth and Eighth are both masterful works.

[@davidhickey1182]

Hi, Sean, Great to meet you in this sacred space

[@angelmountain1832]

Great review! Thanks. Pettersson's Eighth doesn't strike me as all that black -- I think it's immensely beautiful. Slow and so full of emotional power.. And so original! The whole thing is based on those two notes, which one just cannot get out of one's head. How many composers would dare to base a whole symphony on just two notes? The man was a genius.

[@rogerantonybennett5272]

MAGNIFICENT comment ! after D.H.'s VERY funny review... yes the 2 notes ! Very beautiful repetition... 1st mov.of AP-8.

[@frgraybean]

Thank you for this! I NEVER thought I would be so entertained and tickled by a talk on the music of Pettersson! I picked up the CPO box a while back. Pretty tough listening, but worthwhile.

[@piedho]

Thank you for this playful and funny presentation of one of Pettersson's works of genius (the 8th), this composer is Swedish greatest and needs to be heard and performed all over the world!! In addition to the 'personality types' you mention, I can add Mahler, Bruckner and Sibelius fans, I have the experience.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Thank you too!

[@LuleNorrbotten]

A new recording is in the making right now (December 2022), again on BIS with Norrköping Symphony Orchestra but this time with Christian Lindberg as conductor. Looking forward to a review of that one when it comes out in 2023.

[@simonvaughan6017]

Do you know what became of that recording? It hasn't materialized yet, and when BIS released a box-set of Pettersson's symphonies earlier this year it was Segerstam's recording of the 8th that was included (they also chose Segerstam's recording of the 7th over Lindberg's).

[@LuleNorrbotten]

@@simonvaughan6017 No, I have unfortunately no new info. The latest thing I heard was from Christian Lindberg himself when he conducted Symphony no.3 in September 2023. Lindberg hinted to the audience that the recording of no 3 will be released together with no 8 some time in 2024.

[@simonvaughan6017]

@@LuleNorrbotten Thanks for getting back to me. It actually sounds as though you do have new information! It wouldn't surprise me at all if BIS released an SACD of Pettersson's 3rd and 8th symphonies just a short while after having issued a box-set of the composer's complete symphonies. After all, this is a label that once put out two recordings of Stenhammar's 2nd symphony in the space of a couple of months.

[@2906nico]

One of your best videos, Mr H. A great intro to a composer I've been vaguely aware of for years but have never listened to.

[@isabellevignola1379]

The sixth is even darker than the eighth in my opinion. The suffering that emerges from it is even more palpable. A real nightmare. But for me, his fourteenth remains his greatest work.

[@rogerantonybennett5272]

No.8 is my top Pettersson, so I'll hear No.6 again to to see if I can knock 8 off its perch - even darker you say ! No.14 will need further scrutiny....

[@marcusassenmacher938]

the 6th is probably my favorite, followed by the 9th (and depending on my mood in the reserve order)

[@dianamcdougall9251]

I LOVE Allan Pettersson's symphonies.Extremely emotive.

[@heron6462]

I love his symphonies too (and I’m not in the least depressive). In spite of the endless gloom and occasionally inept orchestration, there’s something that grips you and won’t let you go. I regularly return to Symphonies nos. 2, 7 and 8. There are also pieces for string orchestra and a viola concerto and a violin concerto (no. 2) that is completely overwhelming.

[@dianamcdougall9251]

@@heron6462 His violin concerto no. 2 is quite the long work and has the emotional feel of his symphonies, to me. Everything I've heard of his seems deeply cathartic and intensely personal. I love his music's Beethoven/Shostakovich-like heart-on-his-sleeve quality.

[@heron6462]

@@dianamcdougall9251 I agree.

[@providence51]

This video just popped up on my Home Screen. After your tough symphonists video from last week which included Pettersson, I listened to the 8th and concluded it is the perfect piece to play when trying to sleep for chronic insomniacs such as myself. A very melodious sound that doesn’t change. So I am going to give it a go tonight wish me luck Elaine

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

You'll make it!

[@providence51]

@@ArtyFactual_Intelligence nope. The symphony did a great job, now I need to listen to it while awake and see if I really like it lol.

[@hiphurrah1]

Your characterization of Pettersson's music says it all and is exactly how i experience his music when i first encountered it a few years ago, it's darker than dark, it's torture, it's a nightmare, but my god, how intensely gripping it can be (as you say, if you're in the right mood). Hilarious manual guide!! Thanks for your great insight! Lindberg is the one to go!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Thanks for your comments!

[@Senatedefender]

The 8th is his darkest and most nightmarish of all. It's a hell in most serious sense. It's very beautiful. And painful. At its end the hero is exhausted and defeated, ready to accept his fate to live in this cold hell for eternity. The genuine tragedy and darkness of this music is not some cataclysmic events, but it's constant evil of, I would say, strange, unfathomable origin, abrading human spirit and destroying it. And music is so powerful because we see the pure beauty and sadness at the very beginning, some value to be ultimately lost later. It's even religious, as many of Pettersson's works. Thomas Sanderling version is the best, in my opinion. He doesn't rush, especially in the 'torture march' section, yet the textures are sharp and dark under his baton. I don't like Segerstam. It's more smooth, less abrasive, less soulful and terrifying, and he rushes the E-F 'torture march' section, making it some sort of nightmarish vortex, to lesser effect, while Sanderling makes it as the flowing continuation of the first 10 minutes, yet strangely, terrifyingly different (the realisation comes slowly, as the march gains its weight). 9th is also endless quest of mystical pain, but it's very different approach. The power of 9th is through macabre elements: sentiments are fewer, we are more focused on the dark force's game, it's evil dance, nailing and exhausting the hero. Pettersson is dark genius. 6th and 7th symphonies are great, but they are not so dark. In those worlds, the hero sees the point of his suffering, the beauty. While here he is left with nothing, with mortal scars, with cold pain of dying. My favourite, apart from 8th, is 13th, which is harder to describe. Its chaos, for me, is the suppressed will to freedom, becoming destructive and blind force, torturing the hero himself. But in the end, 13th is genuinely uplifting. Though I think Pettersson' music is unhealthy and shows no way to relieve the condition, it's always strikingly defiant, dormantly (in 6th symphony) or evidently. It is the defiance itself, and it defies suffering, death, everything, in its unconstructiveness causing suffering (13th is the greatest example). That's why, IMO, it doesn't lead to, say, suicide. It's neurotic. It's VERY lonely and in some ways pointless struggle, at least from a certain point of view. Pettersson probably was neurotic (and not clearseer by far). But, nevertheless, I think he is genius of darkness, he exudes the suffering and its depth, making us listen in compassion and awe. He also shows the POWER OF LIFE, struggling, defying. His music boils with energy. No one did it like he did. He is my friend and I love him.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Now there's an endorsement, sort of...

[@pittan86]

Powerful comment. Will check out some works based on your words here friend. The 7th is the one I have experienced many times, one of my favourite symphonies.

[@Senatedefender]

@@pittan86 glad you've appreciated it, pal. I was under great impression and wanted to express a lot.

[@Gcbyvr666]

I love Pettersson’s music. Excellent episode David.

[@bikerpaul68]

Thank you for drawing attention to Pettersson's music. The 7th and 8th Symphonies were actually used in the soundtrack of a Swedish film - I have forgotten which one (it wasn't a horror film though!) but when I heard the music I had to rush out and look for recordings (not easy in the 1980's). I would agree that these are the two most accessible of his symphonies, but not that the 8th and 10th are similar; the 10th is generally regarded as the harshest and most uncompromising of his symphonies, and the composer himself described it as a "fist in the face". When he was in his 20's Pettersson developed rheumatoid arthritis (not a neurological disorder) which caused him severe pain and disability and also provoked renal failure in the early 1970's which almost killed him; it was during a 9-month hospital stay that he wrote most of the 10th. It's not surprising that there is a lot of pain in his music but I don't think I've ever found it depressing. In 1971, he wrote, "In the hospital world in which I live, I experience a unique energy within me ... and write music with a life all of its own." (Quoted in the booklet for the CPO recording of the 10th.)

[@williamwhittle216]

Think at age 83 I should hear it? May get it anyway! Have some of the Symphonies in my collection.

[@gillesderais3848]

Checked the collection, no symphonies, but a violin concerto that lasts 54 minutes, gasp, paired with 'Suite from Barefoot Songs', which sounds not gloomy at all, quite cheerful really. He died in 1980, working on his 17th symphony, not quite as prolific as Hovhaness, but still.

[@morrigambist]

I have positive recollections of Dorati's #7, but I haven't listened to it (or any other Pettersson) in years. I read somewhere that he suffered from rheumatoid arthritis, which would spoil anyone's day. Than there was the Abba thing...

[@JB-dm5cp]

I feel we live in a time of dark cynicism, panic and raging political correctness, where truth and beauty are seemingly becoming irrelevant, and this music gives a voice to what I feel when I watch the world. I feel more and more trapped. Or maybe this music makes me believe that... I think that to not to go mad or anxious, one has to acknowledge and explore the darker sides (the Shadow) of one’s personality. (And possibly, society as a whole.) Art helps me do that. Pettersson’s voice needs to be heard more often, I feel. Anyway, thanks(?) for the recommendation.

[@MorganHayes_Composer.Pianist]

Thanks for introducing to me a fascinating composer. Real substance here. Another outsider Symphonist who may be worth examining is Matthias Vermeullen. Also a music critic!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Thanks for listening

[@BenjaminStaern]

Maybe not for the depressed, but for the impressed. ;) I love that symphony a lot!!

[@williamrobinson6059]

Have you listened to any of Christian Lindberg’s ongoing (I believe) cycle? I’m very familiar with him as a trombone soloist; and in his recordings of these symphonies, it’s pretty easy to spot his musical habits that emerged from playing trombone. I’m not sure what he does with Pettersson has mass appeal, but damn do I love it.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Lindberg's performances have been excellent as far as I can tell.

[@Senatedefender]

That's why I'm waiting anxiously for 8th and 12th by Lindberg!

[@12Trappor]

@@Senatedefender The 12th is out! I cannot say yet whether it is better than Honeck's recording, need to listen more. Let's just be thankful that we now have three good recordings of the 12th Symphony. :-)

[@fred6904]

Dear Mr Hurwitz! I would like to ask you to consider to make a review of BIS's new recording of Pettersson's 15th Symphony and the Viola concerto. Best wishes Fred. 🇸🇪🙏

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I will consider it!

[@fred6904]

@@DavesClassicalGuide thank you very much. 👍🙏

[@abdul7591]

Dave, have you ever reviewed the symphonies of Gosta Nystrom? The cycle has been done on BIS.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Not here, but on ClassicsToday.com.

[@familiemooi3768]

Great and funny comments - though I would repectfully disagree on some. For me personally, Petterson's symphonies (and you're quite right the 6th-8th are the most accessible ones) are not really depressing. I believe they were Petterson's way (not always succesful, I grant you that ) out of misery, certainly not a shovel to heap misery on his audience. We don't call Rembrandt's and Caravaggio's paintings depressing because of their use of a predomiantly dark palette in their clair-obscur. I agree that the 8th is a masterpiece. To those who see the beauty of it, I would strongly recommend the 6th. For those who have a big heart and the stamina to endure the obscure in search of the clair, Petterson's symphonies are a treasure. Personally, I consider him to be one of the century's truly great symphonists.

[@BeammeupSpotty]

thanks for recommending the pettersson. I hadn't heard it before. it was good, but it didn't have the climax i need.

[@ftumschk]

"The perfect music for a pandemic" - best endorsement ever :)

[@wayneforbes4145]

I'm not at all familiar with Pettersson but I immediately thought of Alfred Schnittke and his compositions. Not exactly party music, but beautiful in its own way.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I'll have to do a Schnittke video too. I met him just before he died. Not a happy camper.

[@wayneforbes4145]

I read that Schnittke was in pain for much of his life due to cancer, hence his dark, depressing music. I would like to hear your thoughts about Schnittke. Thanks for all of your terrific videos!

[@BeammeupSpotty]

thanks for turning me on to pettersson. I was intrigued during the first listening, and now i found myself wanting to hear it again. yikes. as i listened today, it hit me, this reminds me of the movie "what dreams may come," where the wife is in hell after committing suicide.. i'm going to listen to the sound track to see if it's the same. :-)

[@hillcresthiker]

This is one of Daves most hysterical commentaries especially when he advises to lock up the controlled substances before listening to this music. I dont enjoy Petterssons music perhaps because im not sophisticated or as knowledgable as some people. I know the music is profound and complex, but to me its more of a philosophical and emotional outpouring of instrumental sounds. For my taste, as far as deep emotions and listenable music, i'll stick with Mahler and Sibelius.

[@Felipe.Taboada.]

1:16 actually Bruckner was manic depressive, but he was very religious.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I sort of said that...

[@bikerpaul68]

A psychiatrist writes: Bruckner probably suffered from obsessive-compulsive disorder but I know of no evidence to suggest he was manic-depressive.

[@MegaVicar]

Yes! There’s more to Nordic music than Sibelius and Nielsen...not that that duo has much real equal. Well, maybe Eduard Tubin...

[@MisterOE3]

Tveitt trumps Tubin.

[@rgthorpe2001]

OK, but what we really want after your Currentzis review is, how did your cat react? The more serious side of me wants to protest that this isn't as encouraging of listeners to explore Pettersson as I think he deserves, but I am laughing too much to protest!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

No point in gilding the lily, is there?

[@colinwrubleski7627]

16 symphonies, with a 17th being incomplete...

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Yeah, yeah. Who's counting? :)

[@vaclavmiller8032]

The first is also incomplete.

[@Warp75]

Definitely not for the faint of heart 😅

[@charlescoleman5509]

As dark as Peterson’s music is, I’m not sure it’s as dark as the symphonies of Michael Hersch. Ugh......

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Well, there's really no limit, is there?

[@johnmontanari6857]

Pettersson? Oy, such mishegas! Say, how 'bout something light and cheery -- like Bernd Alois Zimmermann?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Next week. And it's "meshuga!"

[@isabellevignola1379]

Meshuggah is an amazing swedish metal band by the way...The tam tam guy is great!😁