Review - The Last of Us Part II

One of the most controversial games of all time, here's my review of The Last Of Us Part II.

[@MihaSith]

It’s a pity that the game didn’t tell us about Ellie’s sexual orientation.

[@souetrejeremy]

That's the main issue, they were just hindered by having to pretend to tell an actual story between the lines of what felt like a patronizing and militant tract. What a mess.

[@AzeimFriday]

She's gay btw.

[@billybatts8283]

The original game never. I played the original ps3 version, there was zero suggestion Ellie was just a plot device. It was not until later with the ps4 version and dlc, you know the start of the Cuckmann years and that popular line "Ellie has always been gay..." Because 14 year olds being raised in a totalitarian city under strict control with a dwindling population and risk of human extinction would have the knowledge to be aware of that and not be imprinted with the staggering importance of population growth.....

[@Christrulesall2]

Ellie's gay by the way.

[@rommelthedesertfox3089]

@@billybatts8283in the dlc is was shown she was gay

[@riceman00]

Never forget that Amy Hennig, one of the lead writers responsible for many beloved Naughty Dog properties, was “forced” out. A literal female writer, brilliant at her work, forced out so they could cram in the Neil Suckmann special story to subvert expectations.

[@johnohrstrom5112]

She was let go around part 1. Nice try though.

[@Maxx________]

@@johnohrstrom5112that doesn’t make his post any less valid

[@gordons-alive4940]

Not exactly subverting many peoples' expectations at this point, but yeah, that sucks that that happened.

[@PerfectHandProductions]

Her writing in the Legacy of Kain games is some of the best ever featured in a video game.

[@drownthepoor]

I love The Last of Us Part 2. I wanted to hate it, but I love it. I love it DESPITE the purposeful subversion that Druckmann put into this game. He did it because he wanted this game to be part of the on-going culture war, and he's openly expressed so without hesitation. The thing that pisses me off the most is the fact that so many fans of the game think people hate it because of their own personal views, and refuse to acknowledge that the creators intentionally made it to alienate those people. Abby honestly ends up being the most likable person in the game. She wanted revenge for her father. But the worst part is making Joel out to be selfish and wrong for saving Ellie which was the most important concept of the first game. And even worse is having Ellie despise him for it.

[@alrightsure9941]

Fun fact you can use all the weapons you want inside churches, but you arent allowed to use weapons or damage anything in the jewish synagogues.

[@ryman1933]

👃

[@DerWeisskunig]

⁠@@ryman1933Every single time…

[@bustywaifus]

That can't be real.... right?

[@infinite8382]

yeah, the synagogue scene in TLoU2 didn't feel forced at all...not!

[@MrTruthandlove]

Every single timeowitz

[@Maladjester]

My favorite quote on this game is Alex from Angry Joe: "People praise the game for its bold writing. You know what? The writing *_is_* bold. Killing a beloved protagonist like a bitch in the first few minutes, presenting his murderer as an admirable hero we're supposed to want to play as, and presenting the other beloved protagonist as a psycho murderhoboing her way across the landscape *_are_* bold choices. Absolutely none of it works on any level whatsoever, but it is bold."

[@jackmesrel4933]

Angry Joe might be a hack most of the time, but he has his moments for sure

[@nothajzl]

@@jackmesrel4933 i'm repeating what you said here, but the dude has his moments

[@billjacobs521]

@@nothajzl Both of you realize that he said Alex said this, not Joe himself, right?

[@Maladjester]

@@billjacobs521 Joe is getting by on blowing out the sound levels with *_ARE YOU OUTTA YOUR MIND_* twice an episode. Other Joe....well, no shade to the guy, but I just don't care what he thinks. I wish it was the Angry Alex show. He's the smartest and most articulate of the three on the rare occasions they let him talk. If he were the main character, I'd watch every episode instead of the maybe four total I've seen.

[@TheRok]

I like Alex, but I don't know what's "beloved" about the former protagonist exactly. The Last of Us Part I clearly showcased him as an utter selfish asshole who's more than happy to murder innocents if it means that he gets a few crumbs to sustain himself in the apocalypse, and won't hesitate to sacrifice humanity if it means he can save someone he likes. With that said, all this isn't exactly new to Naughty Dog; their age-old protagonist of their previous franchise is basically a thieving murderer too. And Naught Dog isn't alone in this glamorization of thieving murderers; Rockstar is downright built on the glamorization and airbrushing of theft and murder. And yes, yes, "it's just a game/movie/whatever," but ... Alex did say ... "beloved protagonist," and it really got me wondering, exactly WTF is "beloved" about him? SPOILER ALERT: But don't get me wrong; just because I maintain that Joel is a fuckin' thieving murdering asshole, this doesn't mean that I'm okay with an even [more] obnoxious butch of a character murdering him only to become my fuckin' protagonist! What a shitty mechanic to shove in the player's face.

[@Force_Of_Habit]

The japanese reviews of this game were the stuff of legend. Allow me to quote some: "Everyone in the development team should die" "A game about right and wrong made by people who think they're always right" "They make fun of a cult yet make you walk through a sinagogue" (lmao)

[@iHaveTheDocuments]

And this is part of why the Japanese make the best games

[@LamiNalchor]

what's the point of the synagogue?

[@leoncca]

Did a Japanese journalist really wished them to die!? Which one was it? That's mental

[@EndThusIAm]

The second quote is poetry!

[@Ankhtowe]

@@LamiNalchor Look up who is funding all of the degeneracy some time. Take a shot every time you read -berg, -stein, -baum, or -witz.

[@DOOMStudios]

“Ellie’s gay by the way.” My favourite line in this review lol.

[@TheSupart91]

😂😂😂 forrealz

[@johnstuartkeller5244]

Wait ... Ellie's gay? 😂

[@supertenor2767]

Google The Last of Us: Left Behind

[@Chris-gw2xg]

@@supertenor2767Yeah we know nothing knew but this game just throws it in your face every time, its stupid

[@anthonyfernandez82]

She was gay, Ellie?

[@mattcomchoc2957]

there's never been such a disparity between how much i loved an original, and how little i've wanted to play a sequel

[@tuorofgondolin8235]

Make sure you play the actual original and not the remake (the Part I verision). I've been told that they alter the ending of Part 1 to justify what Joel was accused of in Part 2.

[@darkblaze373]

i feel so sorry for you, youve missed out

[@WH250398]

To be fair, the gameplay, in the first half at least, is superb. The story however, made me wish I never played it.

[@seriousblurs7996]

@@tuorofgondolin8235 Have not played pt1 but that sounds like complete BS. 1. Everyone would have heard about it if that was the case. ;) 2. They actually repeat the ending scene exactly as I remembered it was in the second game.

[@tuorofgondolin8235]

@@seriousblurs7996 I've only played the original version of The Last of Us (PS 4): I don't own the Part 1 or Part 2 releases. So, I am only repeating what I was told. It's why I haven't bought the Part 1 version for the PS 5 ... well, that and I if I have to double-dip for it... well, I'm not *that* into the game. Anyway, if what I've been told is wrong, then that's a relief.

[@SammEater]

Joel from Last of Us 1 would never be dumb enough to: 1. Surround himself with strangers in a closed space with only one exit 2. Tell these same strangers his real name

[@xtlm]

Well, men are dumb. Don't you know? Kinda became standard after 2015 and the first game was before then.

[@butter2254]

1. His brother introduced them. 2. They were in a building they knew very well. 3. The blizzard and infected outside gave Joel and Tommy no other choice but to be stuck with those strangers. 4. Joel and Tommy have met many friendly survivors outside their community throughout the years, and would never expect someone from their past try to come back and kill them.

[@SammEater]

@@butter2254 Ok Neil Druckmann, very cool.

[@butter2254]

@@SammEater that’s such a lame comeback. Anyways have fun hating on a game that came out years ago, bye 😂

[@SammEater]

@@butter2254 More fun than playing that movie poorly disguised as a game, for sure. Go back to work on the multiplayer game, Neil, oh wait it got cancelled.

[@bobbyfagan7760]

Never played it Never will

[@734ch3r]

Played what? They neved made a sequel in my timeline.

[@BumbleBee-xi2yv]

​@@734ch3r I have no idea what the OP is going on about.

[@CragusMaximus]

Same

[@sgvmvp]

Ellie's gay by the way

[@YT1300MF]

Same. Played the first game once, didn’t play the dlc. That was all that was needed. The story didn’t need s sequel, let alone the one we got.

[@noneed4me2n7]

I was grateful to whomever leaked the plot for the second. Cancelled my pre order and never looked back. Thanks Neil.

[@kaj7135]

They saved us from an absolute waste of time and money. It only panders to shitlib feminists who don’t even play any games, which explains why shitlib journalists say it’s a masterpiece.

[@dennisnissen5485]

Same here 😅

[@shirokatatsu5886]

The leaker should be held as a hero of generation

[@oukie666]

Same 😂

[@traviso7810]

Then you missed out on one of the greatest games ever, your loss.

[@jonathankozenko]

What annoyed me most about the narrative was that it treats Abby's killing of Joel as something wholly justified, and almost morally righteous, but when Ellie attempts at counter-revenge, the game screams "REVENGE IS BAD!!!!" Then again, Ellie is substantially less likable than in the first game. I seriously wonder if this is because Amy Hennig was (likely) part of the development of TLOU1, and Neil Druckman wanted to shit all over anything she had to do with; this would explain his seeming hatred of Ellie and his absolute LOVE of Abby!

[@pdizzle10484]

You didn't understand the game then. The revenge takes its toll on Abby and it doesn't make her nightmares go away. She goes on this quest to save the scar kids because she feels like a piece of shit for doing what she did. Not only that, but she loses ALL of her friends because of it. Both Abby and Ellie's revenge quests take a lot from them.

[@jonathankozenko]

@@pdizzle10484 You ultimately miss my main point --- The game demands you cheer for Abby when she kills people, while demands you "BOO!!!" Ellie when she does the same, despite the fact that what Abby does is equally as bad as, if not worse than, what Ellie does. Honestly I suspect a LOT of this is probably because Amy Hennig probably helped in the development of Ellie (and Joel), and Neil Druckman has dedicated his life to destroying Amy Hennig's work, despite her being more talented, and clearly a MUCH better human being than he is. Seriously, Amy Hennig is awesome, and the fact that Druckman has done everything in his power to undermine her entire career, while being a MASSIVELY bigger douchebag than her, says a lot. My ultimate point is that the game demands you absolutely adore Abby and utterly despise Ellie, despite the fact that Abby is actually a worse human being than Ellie is. But worse, it's a MASSIVELY hypocritical stance that Druckman (in all his self-assigned glory) prompts onto the players.

[@JZStudiosonline]

@@jonathankozenko All I've ever heard was that Amy worked on uncharted. I don't think she was tied to TLOU.

[@ghostring3624]

So, the lesson here is, if Joel didn’t save Ellie, he would be alive.

[@Krypto121]

No. If Joel hadn't murdered the surgeon in cold blood, Abby would have had no reason to hunt him down.

[@juanrosario5842]

Just like if Daryl didn't blew Negan's men then Glenn and Abraham would be alive!

[@RhysCallinan-cq5re]

Or, if Joel didn't save Abby he'd be enjoying Bigot sandwiches.

[@RhysCallinan-cq5re]

​@@Krypto121Murder? Odd way of describing self defence.

[@mr.s9783]

@@Krypto121Uh, the surgeon was literally about to murder Ellie “for the greater good.” Joel stopped him. 😊

[@Adam-nk6ty]

“Abby, a theoretical woman” killed me

[@vpaul4374]

Gigantor*

[@thesuperintendent4290]

And a two time Olympics powerlifting champion

[@danilonden3782]

Ellie is gay btw.

[@spiral3441]

Abby is a great representation of trangenders in games.

[@quanlinglingdingle6122]

Bro even tyler1 said it took him harder to get his physique irl in a short time without steroid While gigantor here in a post apocalyptic world...

[@TheRocco96]

Never forget that Naughty Dog and Sony abused KZbin's copyright strike system to censor youtubers who talked negatively about this game in the weeks before the release.

[@blacyc]

It was because of the leaks, which shown the full gameplay of a game

[@TheRocco96]

@@blacyc Channels who didn't show the leaks but just talked about it were also hit with copyright strikes.

[@blacyc]

@@TheRocco96 that is what i am saying

[@MundaneThingsBackwards]

@@blacyc You literally said something completely different.

[@lkeane3591]

Talking about leaks is not a legit Target of the copyright system. They abused it, it was wrong, and they damaged people's income to do so: scumbag behavior.

[@Adrian-yi8fl]

Gameplay was good. But the whole thing about Ellie being super mad at Joel seemed really contrived and forced. Nobody's going to be that livid over not letting some doctor kill you for a very remote chance at a cure that probably wouldn't be able to be manufactured and distributed anyway.

[@AxelCross]

If you pick up the optionals in the hospital you learn that: 1. Ellie isn't actually immune, just resistant 2. The Fireflies have tried this same thing on other "immune" people before and failed every time (some of them fled from the hospital, too.) As you said, what facilities do they have for manufacture/distribution? They are running on generators and salvaged diesel. And even if they could? Being immune to infection won't stop anyone from being flayed alive by a clicker or slaved out to hill people.

[@Adrian-yi8fl]

@AxelCross ... yep great points I listen to all the recordings. Plus it goes against the whole ending of the first game. It really seemed like they had a tacit agreement between them and Ellie was going to accept and it really worked. Only to dash it to pieces in the next game.

[@Adrian-yi8fl]

@AxelCross and not to beat a dead horse but after all they went through together and winter and everything else I just can't believe she would cut him off

[@Krypto121]

Ellie wasn't mad that Joel saved her life. She was mad that he made the decision for her and lied to her about it for as long as he did.

[@Adrian-yi8fl]

@@Krypto121 there is no way to look at it that would make her level of anger reasonable or believable.

[@joelpierce1453]

As you can imagine, I identified very strongly with Joel in the first game. When I found out he dies at the beginning of this one I lost any interest in playing it, especially when I found out you also have to play as his murderer later in the story.

[@Krypto121]

Then you missed out on a very good game and story all because of some emotional attachment to a fictional character.

[@joelpierce1453]

@@Krypto121 Everything I've heard about the game since then has confirmed to me that I made the right decision.

[@RhysCallinan-cq5re]

And the bitch that kills him is allowed to escape, cuz "revenge is bad" and whatever. Yeah no that's dumb, letting a woman whose friends you murdered live because she'll definately not try to kill you in revenge later. Meanwhile Ellie lose fingers and her so called girlfriend. What a depressing shitty game that shits all over the first game.

[@mr.s9783]

@@Krypto121Simp harder

[@s.sradon9782]

@@Krypto121 I've seen better games made by a 16 year old, here they had millions, years, an established franchise and violated hundreds of human rights.

[@eanderson9599]

Ellie’s gay by the way

[@bubba842]

She was gay in the DLC for the first game too. This game didn't unveil something that people didn't already know.

[@jeremyduke4938]

Ellie is gay though by the way.

[@TheRocco96]

@@bubba842 It's ELLIOT

[@Ricardo-cl3vs]

Ellie wasn't gay in part 1! She was clearly interested in men's penises from the porn magazine she stole from the only gay character in part 1. Her also being gay was an afterthought and it only came up in the DLC!

[@noneofyerbeeswax8194]

It's, like, really subtle, so I shall point it out for those who haven't been paying attention to ZE MESSAGE: Ellie might be just a tiny bit less straight than a railroad spike.😇

[@topcat59]

It’s also ridiculous that there’s a pregnant woman among them who still goes out in the field risking both her and her future child’s life.🐱

[@RichardPhillips1066]

In a culture where protecting children is vital

[@billybatts8283]

Females can't fight the whole game is ridiculous.

[@AverageJoe483]

Well the left sees it as a “ clump of cells “. So it makes sense to them .

[@hongo3870]

Wolfenstein 2 had that too. Was also a woke game

[@RichardPhillips1066]

@@hongo3870 young bloods was even worse

[@night1952]

But everyone already knows that vengeance is self-destructive, that's why most revenge stories are about people who have nothing left to lose, meanwhile Abby and Ellie had stuff to lose, that's why so many people can't relate to either of these characters. Examples of satisfying revenge stories are The Punisher, Kill Bill, John Wick... All people who had lost everything and revenge was the only thing they had.

[@phrozac]

Disagree. Abby and Ellie both lost the centers of their lives, their fathers. Abby not only lost her father, but her entire way of life as Joel also destroyed the Fireflies and their mission of saving humanity. That's a whole lotta reason to seek vengeance. Ellie saw Joel murdered before her very eyes. Also, a whole lotta reason for vengeance. I can relate very easily to both.

[@RhysCallinan-cq5re]

I think it's fine, built in reality it's stupid that you let Abby go.

[@night1952]

@@phrozac I don't, they both had people supporting them and their revenge quest only caused pain to said people.

[@RUINERx117]

I worked at Gamestop when Last of Us Part II came out and I got to a point where I was begging and pleading with people to buy the cheaper pre-owned trade-in copies (because they could be returned if you didn't like the game), but so many people would buy the brand new sealed copies (which can't be returned due to US software laws), and I had multiple people come back ANGRY about the game, and I just shrugged my shoulders and game them their $5 because the had so many copies traded-in the game was absolutely WORTHLESS when it launched. Pro-tip: Buy on Steam or pre-owned at Gamestop for the best video game return policies.

[@Seyanoo]

Funnily enough that’s what I did, got a pre owned copy because I didn’t bother looking up the leaks cause I wanted to see it with an unbiased view point. I such heard the game was split amongst people. Played it and returned it a day after I got it.

[@seriousblurs7996]

Gamestops staff usually does that no matter what game though. Suss.. :)

[@JZStudiosonline]

Steam has a 2 hour refund period, that's not that good.

[@zkilla2924]

What I hate is the complete retconning of the Fireflies. The first game made it pretty clear that they were mostly scumbags, apart from Marlene. Joel brings Ellie to them all the way across the country, and they basically go, "OK, so that girl you love as a daughter? We're going to kill her in this experiment. Also, you don't get to say goodbye or even see her ever again. Also, we're going to keep all your survival equipment and weapons and march you out into the zombie apocalypse with nothing, a death sentence-that is, if we don't just shoot you in the back once you get outside." Then, in the second one, they're a bunch of amazing people acting like Disney characters, saving zebras and sparing old men. Oh, and even though the apocalypse started in 2013, everyone apparently talks and acts like current-day college kids. Cuckman getting full control of the story ruined everything.

[@Ishaan_A]

I would say the depiction of some fireflies as being good could have worked given the execution of the story. The game does it the cheap way by showing Abby's dad simply rescuing an animal while Abby is cutesy with Owen. Instead they could have shown Abby and her dad's relationship in more detail, how they are battling with Marlene and her men with the Fireflies's methods of operation: not allowing them the resources they require to rescue survivors they find and instead often looting them and leaving them to die, causing fights with FEDRA which doesn't accomplish much and those unnecessary expenditures of their resources can be used to help make their own QZs to keep people safe within (which of course brings its own sets of issues with corruption and crime in them). The audience should have first empathized with Abby and understood her motivations and love for people around them, which then makes the reveal of Joel telling what he did in the Firefly hospital to Tommy (in the actual beginning of the game) much more emotional, seeing what Joel's actions directly did to someone else's life, someone we started to grow to understand and like. Beginning the game with Abby and seeing her kill Joel without knowing the reason was a stupid decision imo, and the empathizing of her character later on definitely doesn't work as Naughty Dog expected to.

[@xEvilRaptorx]

You're right they ARE the Disney of the universe... they put a nicer looking mask on for the second game. But at their heart they are still the same ppl you saw in the first

[@username.exenotfound2943]

also another thing, in last of us (might have been removed hence what you mentioned retcon) turns you can explore the area and find a room where you find out there have been other immune and they STILL couldnt make a cure(which would be imposssible anyway) so they have been killing kids all this time for no purpose

[@LUCKO2022]

That is because Druckman didn't want you to like Joel in the first game and was pissed how everyone liked Joel. Neil has openly said he hates Joel and thinks Joel should have let them carve up Ellie.

[@LUCKO2022]

@username.exenotfound2943 It was a tape recorder message, and they removed it in an update. I remember it in when I first played the game when it was first released in 2013, and then it was removed.

[@DaneofHalves]

"I've never trusted Klingons. And I never will. I can never forgive them for the death of my boy." -Captain Kirk

[@szeltovivarsydroxan9944]

"Use the Force, Harry" - Jean-Luc Gandalf

[@dougbrooks2501]

Time is the fire in which we all burn-Angry Sting

[@commandingjudgedredd1841]

"Ah Kirk, my old friend. Do you know of the old Klingon proverb that tells us that "Liver is a dish that is best served *warm* with fava bean and a nice Chianti! Th-th-th-th!" Khan Noonien Hannibal Lecter

[@DaHighTechCave]

DTA Don’t Trust Anybody-Stone Cold Steve Austin

[@dy031101]

The fact it took questioning his dedication to Starfleet to get that "Let them die!" out of him is testament to his character.

[@rudeoldguy]

I hate the trope of the good guy killing all the henchman, but then deciding that the boss should live even though the entire motivation up to that point was to kill that boss. In a way it kinda shows how the elites get away with everything, while the workers get stomped on without mercy.

[@jasonadersonwedion9874]

Agreed

[@darkblaze373]

This "boss" was not even a boss. It was someone who lost their farther to the "good guy" This game is amazing because of perspectives, you put yourself in someone elses shoes and experience the world from their point of view. Both are justified in what they did to each other but in the end it showed that mercy can prevail, she saw that abby already suffered enough and was probably broken beyond repair.

[@pedrotenoriomendes]

So... There's a Marxist hidden message in the game? I already thought it was bad before knowing this!

[@betterthanyesterday3912]

Hope the trope hope the trope hope the trope hope the trope

[@gbrow1604]

I love how you said this and then Rebel Moon 2 came out lol.

[@Skeleton_Dork]

The line "Perhaps if you'd pulled your finger out of Dina" will forever resonate inside my mind

[@viewer3412]

I sense another meme coming…

[@G-flo]

4:51 "And thus the hero of the Arkham games trilogy, one of the most beloved video game protagonists of his generation, voiced by the legendary Kevin Conroy-dies a sad, miserable, pointless death, lying bound and helpless on a park bench, while being given a morality lecture by self-insert Sweet Baby Inc writers, and having done absolutely nothing of value."

[@AFCN7]

Can't wait until the Suicide Squad review comes out in a few years and quotes this ad verbatim

[@mikoto7693]

I hope it’s out by the time I’m here, now.

[@tentinquarantino876]

​@@AFCN7Yeah, if servers will still work in those few years (they probably won't)

[@JACorvin]

Can we talk about how they robbed Joel of his survival instincts? Why on earth would he tell them his real name? Why would he let himself be in a situation where he’s surrounded by unknown people with Z E R O guess as to what their intentions are? Was life in Jacksonville so good that he somehow forgot all about the previous 20+ years of survivalism? Absolute bullshit.

[@Faxie83]

It was needed for the plot to happen

[@true1158]

Ellie’s 🌈AY by the way

[@Matt-416]

"Robbed Joel"... enough said. It's the same feeling that The Last Jedi gave me.... So many options with amazing characters and this is what they chose?

[@sunderpanda]

He didnt. Tommy told them. Replay it or rewatch it and you'll see Tommy told them first.

[@Leprechaunmonkey101]

When you say put himself in that position you mean the thousands of infected that chased him and Tommy into that position 😂😂

[@Drifter2025]

Killing Joel was the biggest mistake they could've done and it's killed the story

[@griffinkeiser2014]

The fact this won GOTY over Ghost of Tsushima is absurd too. You know it only won cause of its use of THE MESSAGE

[@narata1541]

When IGN gave this game a perfect score, I was thinking this game had The Message in it.

[@blowfish1702]

Ignore the ratings from IGN, utterly meaningless, instead look for the games they label "problematic" that's where you'll find the gems 😂

[@ThatGuy182545]

@@blowfish1702No, don’t ignore them. They’re actually a very good way to sus out shitty games. If they give a good review you know it probably sucks. 🤣

[@Brian_Boru]

Misandry is the foundation of this game and don't forget it.

[@thehatter9400]

And has been for so many games ever since

[@Jadty]

Cool it with the antisemitic remarks.

[@jessekoepp3928]

@@Jadty Cool it with the "I detect imaginary thought crimes!" online 🤡policing. Also look up what "misandry" means Detective 💩 for 🧠.

[@L.D201]

@@JadtySorry pal but it’s 2024 and the grifters no longer support jews

[@DerWeisskunig]

@@jessekoepp3928 Wooosh

[@michaeloliver1143]

The fact that they make us play as gigantor after she kills Joel is insane… I died so many times and in such creative ways when I had to play as that butch cow… God, this game was frustrating

[@darkblaze373]

yeah lets start ridiculing someone because of their physical appearance, ignoring the fact that because big in that type of society is extremely beneficial. just stick with the typical cliche games where nothing bad can ever happen to your precious characters. Joel was selfish and paid the price

[@johnwalker3602]

@@darkblaze373 being that big for a woman in that type of society while beneficial its impossible due to lack of nutrition and chems. Also fuck you, Joel did nothing wrong.

[@michaeloliver1143]

@@darkblaze373 lol yeah, that’s fair. I don’t hate her because she’s fugly, I hate her because she killed the protagonist of the last game. Baffling story choice by the creator of the game, I don’t know anyone that enjoyed the story of the second game. It was just a lame/intentionally controversial story that was poorly executed with a truly pointless ending.

[@darkblaze373]

@@michaeloliver1143 there’s so many people who enjoyed the story like me. So many online. Critics all did. Their job is literally to play games and rate them and they’re professionals. Her killing the protagonist in the game was amazing. It was the first time I played a character who did that. It’s ground breaking. People hate new things or things that challenge their beliefs so it was normal that there was outrage based on the leaks

[@KraziEyevin]

​@darkblaze373 that's called the "appeal to novelty" fallacy, btw.

[@sapr76]

18:38 : "Wouldn't any of these scenarios provide a more optimistic, emotionally satisfying finale?" - YES!

[@CyberChrist]

Muh #GrimDark.

[@eanderson9599]

Drinker’s suggestions as to how to story should’ve played out was 10 times better than what we actually got

[@MidsBeHittin]

Literally all of them

[@namelessfire]

That’s because Drinker is a competent writer who cares about craft.

[@phantombigboss8429]

we would gotten actual character development.

[@ssplif5415]

This game was told in the perfect way

[@alwaysright3943]

@@ssplif5415Suuure

[@MRFIKSIT31]

Also, these dumbass apocalypse world games for some reason now want you to think at least 50% of ppl in an apocalypse world would be gay. It’s ridiculous.

[@TheSEWEGI]

And have nothing better to do than worry about bigotry.

[@yosemiteyosemi488]

In apocalyptic situations, humans are programmed to mate heterosexually. Communities would look down upon it not in a social way, but in a biological way. Not only does it make zero sense, it's also suicide.

[@shitmandood]

@@TheSEWEGIbecause it’ll spread all over the internet and turn you into a social pariah…but wait! internet dead. 😵

[@skidmoda]

Ellie's gay by the way ;)

[@channell11]

The reality is that when everything goes to hell, society reverts to traditional gender roles and productive behavior right damn quick. The social justice intersectional nonsense is generally only indulged in societies that have enough comfort and safety to allow it.

[@oddiocurtiss]

That's a damn good point. Some stories don't need a sequel or an epilogue. Sometimes, we just need to know the glory without whatever may come. A happy ending may not be happy given time. But that's what is great about happy endings or even sad endings. It's all up in the air. It leaves it up to the audience. I miss when endings were left to the imaginations of the consumer.

[@Trixie1604]

Well said.

[@sayLeotardbutsayitChinese]

Endings are what allows amazing stories to become legends. Imagine if they came out with three terrible sequels to Blade Runner in the years after it came out. Would it be remembered the same? That shit always tarnishes the status of what could just remain the gold standard (COUGH Predator COUGHCOUGH Terminator COUGH Alien cough)

[@Lennis01]

Always know when to end your story. J.R.R. Tolkein started writing a sequel to The Lord of the Rings that took place in the Fourth Age after all of the characters had either passed on or went to the undying lands of Valinor. It was dark and depressing, and Tolkein himself didn't like where the story was going, so he stopped writing it. Tolkein's legendarium was thus made to end where it was always meant to end; with Middle Earth saved, Aragorn becoming king, and Frodo leaving for Valinor where he could find peace among the elves. Lord of the Rings was epic because it had closure.

[@rafaynoman1180]

Say guy what's you're name? Joel: William Armstrong, but you can call me Billy. And then the rest of the game didnt happen.

[@Jetstreamsamdidnothingwrong]

I hate how they painted the fireflys as the tragic heroes in this game when in the first game it's pretty clear they we're idiots who didn't know what they were doing

[@coling3957]

Fireflies were Antifa ... in the second game they put the WLF in Seatle, a broken Democrat city today that got taken over by Antifa in 2020 "summer of love" .. the game makers try and make their antifa pals out to be the "resistance"

[@Ricardo-cl3vs]

And Ellie wasn't gay in part 1 btw! She was clearly interested in men's penises from the porn magazine she stole from the only gay character in part 1. Her also being gay was an afterthought and it only came up in the DLC!

[@giga_chad9]

And were willing to kill kids to meet their goals

[@seriousblurs7996]

Nothing actually changes that in part 2 though. A vet was basically revealed to be their finest medical and bio-science authority... And they sure also make some tactically questionable decisions here too. Near bursting pregnant on probably dangerous but not all that essential scout mission? Sure, why not.

[@Always-Hustle]

They ruined The Last of us... The message was strong with this game.

[@helRAEzzzer]

Not really. Literally, all of the "representation" was in the first game, too. This is one of the only pieces of modern media where they don't tokenize us (lgbt people), and it's just normal people existing. The writing in this game was shit, but not because different groups of people are merely existing in it. The TV adaptation, on the other hand, while fantastic, was a bit pander-y.

[@TheCollapse410]

Bro they literally tokenized u in this lmao wtf r u talking about?​@@helRAEzzzer

[@TheCollapse410]

Here's how ending Joel could have been done tastefully with very few changes. Just so ppl saying, duuuh ur only mad cause they ended Joel. Same way but dif. Joel gets grabbed up by these ppl and they take Joel to the room to be tortured. Joel's being beaten when Ellie comes in and we see from Joel's perspective. He looks over at Ellis and lifts his hand towards her. The camera then goes up to see the club about to come down and he snaps back to Ellie and stares at her. Everything kinda slows down as he stares at her. Then every things get back to speed and right before it cuts to black u hear Ellie scream the words, dad. Then cut to Ellie waking up alone in the room. Just a few changed would have made this great. And I think Ellie screaming dad would have been so heart felt and amazing. For her to acknowledge him that way would have been so good. But no...

[@intellectic9155]

While the story direction is awful, and not where we all would have taken it the game wasn't ruined. The gameplay is still some of the best around. The "can't think for themselves" is strong w/ this one.

[@lxlKHARMAlxl]

Please do stfu with your drama. The game is not perfect, but is not the abomination you drama queens make it out to be. Grow up.

[@Matthew.Wade27]

I’m glad the plot got leaked. I was a huge TLOU fan. I knew right away I was going to hate this game. Saved me time, money, and disappointment.

[@ChaplainRaziel01]

Another thing I found funny was Ellie’s lack of self awareness. After Ellie killed that pregnant woman(forgot her name) and Gigantor knocked out Dina, Ellie pleaded with Abby not to hurt Dina because she was pregnant… I thought to myself: Ellie what did just do a few hours earlier?

[@cedontelyar9227]

I mean…Ellie wasn’t aware that Mel was pregnant, and just after she realized that she was, she had a panic attack

[@ChaplainRaziel01]

@@cedontelyar9227 ignoring the fact that Mel had a pretty obvious baby bump, my comment remains the same. Ellie killed a pregnant woman and then pleaded with Gigantor to not hurt Dina because she’s pregnant…

[@Fark2005]

I don't think it has anything to do with a lack of self awareness, but a matter of desperation: what else can Ellie do to save Dina in that situation? Ellie is beaten, her only allies are out of commission, and the person she loves is seconds away from having her throat cut open. She really has no other option but to throw the "she's pregnant, please don't kill her"-card and hope it's enough to spare Dina's life.

[@jasonmcgregor123]

I really think Naughty Dog messed up by continuing Joel and Ellie's story. The fact that we didn't know whether or not Ellie believed the lie at the end of the first game is one of the main things that made that ending work so well. The sequel does a huge disservice to that ending by providing us with an answer. Would have much preferred if the sequel was a story set in an entirely new location with new characters. Maybe even give us a glimpse of how people outside the states dealt with the virus.

[@theniceguy7824]

They knew using previous characters would generate more hype and money. What they didn't expect were the leaks and backlash

[@jasonmcgregor123]

@@theniceguy7824 While it is true that using the previous characters definitely generated hype, I think Naughty Dog really missed a grand opportunity to craft another amazing story set in the same universe. I don't think the writers or the company understand that it's okay to tell a great story without doing a follow up. Joel and Ellie's story should have been a one and done thing but it just made too much money to be left alone, which is unfortunate.

[@dontmatter4423]

@@jasonmcgregor123 honestly, the drinker's alternate plot idea of abby working with ellie and joel until the end of the game where she finds out their true identity sounds like a far superior narrative. you preserve the "revenge" message as well as the characters and build their relations

[@jasonmcgregor123]

@@dontmatter4423 I agree. It does make for a better story. Would've been easier to empathize with her character. It also would've been so easy to implement, since Joel and Tommy were the ones who saved her from the horde.

[@paulemge9156]

Any of the Drinkers suggested sequel ideas would be much better

[@Suavecenzo]

Your presented endings are far more impactful and emotionally satisfying. Part 2 really just ripped life apart as a fan of the first story.

[@dewiwilliams4821]

Yes they are. Enjoyed the game on the whole, but very flawed

[@maskedbadass6802]

The "risky/subversvie" writing was actually super safe and predictable if you were familiar with the industry and Neil Druckmann's very public anti-masculinity politics. It re-contextualizes the "oops bad decision" moments into purposeful and sinister decisions made by someone who needs to "educate" the audience to get praise from activists. He relies on gamer money yet obviously hates his audience and worships the feminists who encourage him to hate his audience.

[@cp-the-nerd]

I remember the announcement trailer for this and getting chills of excitement during the guitar part. I consider Last of Us one of the greatest games ever made, thus I naively I imagined a story where the world building was expanded with lore about the outbreak, or some sort of evolution that presents a greater threat to humanity. I never in my wildest dreams expected Joel to be murdered unceremoniously and Ellie's life to be ruined in a miserable and contrived story of [failed] revenge. Forever grateful to the leaker.

[@Knaztr76]

I still won’t play it.

[@pcp2522]

Me neither. Loved the first one. At least now I know the story and what happened to Joel. Glad I skipped it

[@winterknight4307]

Agreed

[@sethtone8634]

Your saving yourself like 40 hours $60 and mild depression when you finish it

[@charlescauldron]

​@@GubbinsGuardian"The dough of the pizza is fine, just pick off all the toppings and scrape off the sauce." I think I'll just get a burger, thanks.

[@charlescauldron]

@@GubbinsGuardian No buddy, I got your point the first time. Just enjoy the gameplay in the massive story-focused game, and ignore the hours and hours of story in it. What I was doing was disagreeing with you.

[@Arcademan09]

Biggot sandwich makes no damn sense. *Ellie didn't even know what ice cream was* in Part 1 but she knows what that is? Teaching someone what a biggot means is somehow an important survival skills in a zombie apocalypse

[@Cave_Monster]

@@mth2425 Did they ever say they were trans? I just remember them saying they were a girl pretending to be a boy so they didn't have to get married. Unless I missed some dialogue explaining the trans story, I've always assumed the trans community latched onto Lev and ND just ran with the trans story but it wasn't intended.

[@loudenlaffnite246]

Excuse me, nothing takes down a bloater like fully upgraded intersectionality.

[@xEvilRaptorx]

​@@Cave_MonsterI'm willing to bet any money that the DEI groups were involved in the story

[@gurgamous]

complaining about others being bigots is a luxary concern that doesnt happen in post apocalyptic settings because you have more pressing issues to be concerned with. Just one example of why the writing in this game is very dum

[@xEvilRaptorx]

Oh my reply was deleted... of course it was. Cant have pesky statements that make people consider what's going on around them in 2024 huh [It was more likely YT than it was the page owner]

[@nebula0024]

EXCELLENT review - probably one of the best I've seen for this game. Now excuse me while I go back to pretending Part 2 simply doesn't exist at all.

[@SycrosD4]

The only word that comes to mind when I think of this game is “frustrating” The gameplay was frustrating. The level design was frustrating. The exploration was frustrating. The resource gathering was frustrating. The plot was frustrating. The characters were frustrating. The character relationships were frustrating. The writing was frustrating. The dialogue was frustrating. The introduction was frustrating. The conflict was frustrating. The resolution was frustrating. It’s like the whole experience was doing its damndest to NOT be enjoyable while wearing the fancy dress of a triple AAA title. I guess it succeeded in that regard

[@s.sradon9782]

Finally someone that gets it! I play unfun games all the time, for the art, but this one hardly passes as modern art

[@tylergoodman3560]

They took a perfect game and used it for " The message." 🎉

[@adamh2957]

Stopped playing as soon as I realised the mid-game Gigantor switch wasn’t another short segment. Knew what they were doing and just rolled my eyes.

[@samwallaceart288]

I love LolTyler1's honest reaction: "Oh I'm PLAYING as Abby now? _ugh_ That's so cringe! That's-- . . . That is SO. INSANELY. *_AIDS."_*

[@BloodyInitiate]

It looks like they’re making the mistake a lot of people make which is thinking that all actions a character takes can be justified, or at least sympathized with, assuming they’ve suffered enough to provoke them. The problem is that isn’t how it works. Suffering doesn’t entitle you to vengeance, and being wronged doesn’t give you carte blanche to wrong others. Some actions can never be justified and no one should attempt to justify them. Cold blooded murder, creating situations where hot-blooded murder is unavoidable, rape, these are all impossible to justify. If you inflict that kind of horror your reasons don’t matter, you’re just the villain no matter what. It’s in everyone’s interest to stop you, and in no one’s interest to defend or identify with you. You’re judged by the consequences of your actions, not by the intent or the person behind them.

[@ryanrodriguez7664]

I mean, if you kill a really bad guy that the courts are never gonna get in cold blood, that seems justified to me.

[@kontrarien5721]

Your final point about whether or not the story needed to be told goes right to the heart of the current lore/universe/saga mega-bloat we're surrounded by. I remember the thirst for more stories, more adventures, and more time with favorite characters. Now I'm perfectly content with a slice of their lives, a part of their stories. I appreciate open endings and unanswered questions so much more than having every last piece of "lore" laid out for me. It's just too much.

[@mkk-un9nz]

'the original game opened with the protagonist cradling his dead daughter in his arms while civilization literally collapsed around him' what a game

[@srj607able]

Merci

[@tylerskiss]

Yeah, that intro was intense. It should have been a dramatic home run for the show, but somehow they diminished the power of that moment.

[@billybatts8283]

Overrated, massively. But yeah that opening is one of the best I've played to a story driven game. But, it doesn't come close to living up to the emotional heights of that opening again and gameplay is a repetitive mix of human enemies/zombie types.

[@NormanReaddis]

Now the sequel start's with the protagonist going hole in one with the father of the lesbian retcon in the first game.

[@HeyTeacherLeaveThoseKidsAlone]

@@NormanReaddis a less be un

[@FlandersB]

Such deep, meaningful storytelling. "Revenge is bad, ok kids?". Over and over and over and over again. OK...we get it already jeez. Subtle as a sledgehammer.

[@koheikyouji]

Subtle as a golf club....

[@ComputersDontFixPaint]

Meanwhile Abby never gets punished for revenge.

[@drajion8976]

@@ComputersDontFixPaintShe literally gets crucified lmao. Did y’all play the game?

[@CallForGrandPappy]

It’s not even that simple, Abby gets her revenge and gets her friends killed, but gets to go to firefly island with trans robinhood Lev.

[@Bronasaxon]

Hammers the idea that retribution is bad no matter how justified into the coming generations and weakens them. Or would if this game wasn’t so terrible.

[@mungaloidender]

Some day this game may become a unsung classic. It took me a little while to see beyond the anger but when I did I was I was surpised by what I found. Its cliche as can be. But it's writing was effective. People hate Abby for killing Joel some much that they purposefully feed her to clickers as cartharsis and vengeance. Joel's death didn't just happen to Ellie, it happened to us. We can feel Ellies rage. It made people legitimately angry. When was the last time a games story elicited actual emotion from gamers. Thats 1 layer was the story the same old vengeance story written and filmed a thousand times? Absolutely. But here's where it get interesting. Abby loses everything be cause of her selfish choices. As the story plays out she ends up in the same role as Joel in the first game protecting a child, growing attached and willing to doing whatever it takes to keep them safe, leaving a trail of bodies and enemies in the process. But after her "redemption" arc to us she is still irredeemable. The same way she felt about Joel. Ellie becomes the same as Abby, selfishly endangering everyone around her to seek vengeance for Joel's death. Losing everything in the process. She chooses to spare Abby but not until after she massacred hundreds of people simply for being in the way. The last layer is Naughty dog gave every single enemy npc a name. Their allies call out to them and cry out their names when Ellie and Abby kill one of them. Every npc is a throw away character like Abby's dad/The doctor from the first game. There by making any single one of the npcs be the catalyst for someone seeking the same vengeance against Ellie and Abby in part 3. Just as Abby happened to be the person to hunt down Joel who also left a massive trail of bodies behind him in his past. It classic eye for an eye makes everyone blind. Its actually kind of impressive.

[@JR-vq9gs]

Ive seen a few videos on this and ill never understand why nobody ever brings up the fact that neil originally wanted the game to be about joel seeking revenge aganst the man who killed his daughter, but the other guy who wrote the game understood the world and writing better pointed out that revenge made no sense when in the world they were in survival would be the only thing youd think of day to day. It was a brilliant point and made the first game brilliant as that was the focus. Neil once rid of these other writers got his revenge by adding in not one, not two, but three revenge stories.. the other point was that the first game took place in a small area, but the second took on a crazed expanded place the most ridiculous part being that ellie was able to track abby across the continent.. if you open the journal when standing on the beach in the third revenge mission as ellie, you will see that she not only crossed thousands of miles but also went through the nevada desert to avoid vegas.. the madness involved in the overall story is just awful.. it was one of the most painful games ive ever plaged. I also think abby gets a tough rap as her story is actually stronger than ellies who is just an unlikable prick the whole game.

[@J_A_P_E]

Because this is deep Naughty Dog lore that most people don't know... we're seeing now how important Bruce Straley was for Naughty Dog No surprise he left the company half way through The Last of Us part 2

[@Lord_Deimos]

_We don't use the term 'fun'_ - Neil Druckmann

[@RollinWithBowlin]

The sad thing is the last of us 2 was not made for the last of us fans

[@ssplif5415]

Thats crazy because most of the actual fans actually like the game unlike these people that are mad “joel died” “his death wasn’t heroic enough”

[@RollinWithBowlin]

@ssplif5415 okay buddy keep buying remastered copies. Joel dying is just the tip of this shitty iceberg

[@ssplif5415]

@@RollinWithBowlin what shitty Iceberg is there this is a masterpiece

[@ssplif5415]

@@RollinWithBowlin and $20 for ah remaster is not a bad deal at all

[@lordfarquad7750]

​@@ssplif5415 buddy we get it. Keep guzzling the Kool aid 😂😂

[@gurgamous]

This was my most anticipated game of that generation as the original game is my favorite game. Druckman managed to accomplish something even more impressive than inspiring a sense love or hatred or a semblance of appreciation that I still wouldve played and been content with. But, the creative genius that he be, transcended my emotions completely and managed to make something I became completely indifferent about and haven’t played to this day. Maybe I will at some point, but it’s hard to say when you just don’t really care at all🤷‍♂️

[@s.sradon9782]

feels bad man, I hope you find a better game series to enjoy, a lotta outstanding Indies out there!

[@JustTooDamnHonest]

The thing that truly pissed me off was the fact that Ellie spared Abby due to some BS about killing will not set things right or ending the cycle of death. F*CK OFF WITH THAT SH*T!!!!! Considering that Ellie murdered all of Abby's group only to not kill Abby makes no sense and Abby killing Joel, Tommy along with Jesse and we are just suppose to forget all of that?! Neil knew what he was doing and he basically gave us fans the biggest middle finger ever the minute Ellie decided to spare Abby. TLOU:P2 will be remembered as the game that killed the franchise.

[@BatMane95]

Assassin's Creed 2 did something similar with Ezio sparring Rodrigo, though that's not only to be historically accurate since Rodrigo Borgia didn't die until 1503, but Ezio also had on screen character development with Bonfire of the Vanities.

[@JustTooDamnHonest]

@@BatMane95 But in the end Rodrigo does die in Brotherhood(tho not historical accurate at all neither).

[@BatMane95]

@@JustTooDamnHonest That is true, but at least the year is

[@embracerodusk2537]

Naughty Dog was better before they gave Druckmann control. They'd likely be better if they sent Druckmann to Hollywood which is where he really wants to be.

[@johnohrstrom5112]

Did you like part 1? That was him.

[@Demsky83]

So he’s 1-1 now

[@bjrnhalfhand2258]

​@@johnohrstrom5112 Amy Hennig.

[@WarpChaos]

​@@johnohrstrom5112Bruce Stratley

[@superstrat5826]

@@bjrnhalfhand2258 Amy Hennig never worked on TLOU, Neil and Bruce Straley were the leads.

[@xiiiiiibanga]

The Last of Us is like The Matrix, it needs no sequels.

[@Fullmetal85]

I agree completely. Some forms of media don't need sequels. At least with movies like Friday the 13th, they were cheesy, funny, and gross and we don't take them seriously because there's no storyline to follow along the movies. They were all the same but different. All 10 of them (I think there are 10, not sure).

[@ShadyDoorags]

"This is the person who killed most of your friends." Don't want to defend this game, but Abby only kills two of Ellie's friends.

[@mattdeelight]

SUPER late to this video, but the whole Tommy gets killed instead is quite possibly the best re-write idea. Joel is a character who WOULD travel the entire US just to seek vengeance. It was hard to believe in the actual story that Ellie would go on the quest for revenge but it is believable she would have travelled after Joel to get him back or (at least) to apologize to Joel about judging him so harshly for saving her life. Naughty dog failed this franchise and it had so much promise. RIP in peace, TLOU.

[@Youthfullegend]

Okay, guys, hear me out... I think Ellie is gay...

[@LWAllen]

Cool. I was wondering.

[@jeffreydean5112]

Too bad the game didn’t explain it…

[@ein.1789]

You don't saaaaaayyyy.... 😑😑

[@peteli4194]

How did you come to this conclusion?

[@iamrage4753]

i think she always was a rugmuncher 😂

[@nighthowell]

17:15 Bro, Drinker really just casually came up with 3 plot outlines that completely dunk on what they used in the actual game lol

[@theundergrad5994]

This needs to be pinned. His scenarios were so stinking good!

[@butter2254]

His outlines were pretty bad. They told the wrong type of story. The idea of the game is that you’re supposed to hate Abby and want her dead, until you see her perspective and now feel conflicted on whose side you’re on.

[@somethingawesome1462]

@@butter2254the last of us 2 is the wrong type of story. There is no conflict with Abby. She acts like the fireflies were completely justified, when they had no justification. Was the first person to seek revenge, but cries when all her friends die. Ellie gets her ass kicked, decides to go back again, and then just lets her go. I love the idea that everyone has morals when it comes to letting certain people live, but then no issues slaughtering hundreds of people along the way

[@TheSEWEGI]

@butter2254 I think had Naughty dog given us the opportunity to choose Abby's fate most of the gamers would've killed her.

[@butter2254]

@@somethingawesome1462 Abby never says anything about the fireflies being the ones in the right. She’s only upset that her father was killed. She even makes Owen sound like a dumbass for wanting to go look for the Fireflies. And yeah she cries when her friends die, who tf wouldn’t? But she lets Ellie live after the ass beating because she realizes that Ellie and Tommy weren’t killing her friends for no reason. Abby is the mature one and doesn’t kill Ellie and Dina, and gives her a chance to walk away. As for Ellie at the end of the game, I can understand not liking her decision to not kill Abby, but I do think it makes sense. We’re shown an image of Joel and then she lets Abby go, because Ellie realizes killing another person won’t bring Joel back. And Ellie was really fighting with herself, because she felt horrible for treating Joel how she did for so long. So half the battle was with her own self, not Abby.

[@mrbigglezworth42]

TLoU2 is the Last Jedi of video games. It tanked any good will the previous title had so completely that no one cares about it anymore. Kudos to Cuckman for that monumental feat.

[@TheBall12]

11:48 There was a note you could find about the doctor (abbys dad). And it is reveals he is just obsessed with finding a cure and he already killied/dissected people that where "immun". And he had little to nothing to show for it. Another thing the devs choose to ignore. Going even so far as retconing it and saying that ellys death would have produced a cure.

[@AshCosgrove]

TLOU 2 is the worst sequel since WWII.

[@BornGam3r]

You deserve a medal of honor for this comment sir🎖️

[@TaserFace77]

Sad, but true

[@loudenlaffnite246]

I mean, we defeated Hitler, freed the Jews, and won WWII -- what exactly did we win with this game? It was losses across the board.

[@manoz6194]

@@loudenlaffnite246 The war was a mistake, none of the first part of your comment is a good thing. You've been lied to. It's because of that mistake the world is in a "modern audience" state now

[@samwallaceart288]

​@@loudenlaffnite246Hey those accessibility options are gonna save your life one day

[@himayamata]

You know what would be interesting? Make the players decide to kill or spare the character. That way, we get different endings or different route for the game

[@juancarlosarciniegas9018]

Maybe, however there will be part 3 and it is a fact that Aby will be a main character, people would still complain because the choices made in part 2 were not respected.

[@hylianninjacg7347]

This is not The Walking Dead

[@SWAHswah-tm7sn]

​@@hylianninjacg7347plenty of games have multiple endings that aren't telltale esq. Chrono trigger, Silent hill 2, the original re3 and even the used example in this review of metal gear solid. I don't think it would have worked in this game because it's designed to be linear but no need to dismiss it completely.

[@hylianninjacg7347]

@@SWAHswah-tm7sn The Walking Dead also contains a type of disease that turns humans into monsters that kill anything they find or at least try to

[@sugonmaballs]

That would be cool, but definitely against ND's methods of curating a specific story they want to deliver. Plus it would have prolly added years to dev time with how meticulous they'd want all the endings to be written and played out.

[@mikoto7693]

Holy moly I wish I knew The Critical Drinker had a Critical Gamer channel. His opinions match mine in the movie industry and as a lifelong gamer I’m delighted to see him taking on my favourite passion.

[@Frozen454]

Maybe the best way to experience TLOU2 is as a "what if" scenario rather than a canon continuation.

[@purefoldnz3070]

This game has some of the worst writing I've ever seen in any game. A few examples Joel and Tommy giving their names, addresses and social security numbers to a bunch of strangers while being outnumbered in a small room right after a scene where Joel said he made lifelong enemies of the Fireflies. A pregnant woman being let out in the middle of a warzone like its no big deal. Ellie hiding out in her secret mission to get revenge while in a theater and they decide to turn on all the lights so anyone can see their location from 30 miles away.

[@DarthVader-xh3mo]

Joel was such a grounded gritty character, a man moulded by tragedy & an apocalyptic totalitarian world. Throughout Last of Us 1 we see glimpses of the person he used to be (dry humour, compassion). He’s strong & stoic, but closed off & emotionally damaged. Seeing him gradually heal and open up to his surrogate daughter who he sacrifices everyone & everything for was so damn compelling. After he massacred the fireflies to save Ellie, Joel arguably had it coming. His death could have been a beautiful swan song to an amazing character. A blaze of glory for the fanbase’s beloved badass. But no, it’s one of the most disrespectful deaths I’ve ever seen. We’re forced to watch the character we’ve grown to love die in pain & powerless to do anything, but take the golf club. Shocking? Yes. Realistic? Maybe. A good send off? FUCK NO. His death could have so much more impactful if we’d met Abbie before killing him and seen her side of the story. The pacing just ruins what attachment we’d have to Abbie. We don’t get a chance to empathise with her since the first time we see her, she’s bashing the main character’s brains in.

[@sarasunshinemt4444]

They could have handled it more like Kill Bill, honestly. Especially the scene where The Bride goes after Vernita Green and they have this huge fight in her house but put the weapons away when her daughter gets home. Then, after The Bride kills her and the daughter walks in on it, she says "your momma had it coming but if you're still sore about this when you're grown up, come get me".

[@Demsky83]

Right let the death of Joel happen at the end of the game as after we’ve spent considerable time with Abbie.

[@Nagalior]

One of the major reason people disliked this game was the pre-release false advertisement. And the forced involvement of certain individual.

[@s.sradon9782]

and the human rights violations

[@CommanderWazowski]

I'd love to see a review & your impression of the progression of the Gears of War games.

[@patrickdoss25]

What sold the first game was Joel and Ellie’s relationship as it evolved over the game. We learn that Joel is not a good guy and did what he had to survive but after so long the price he had to pay to survive meant he was no longer living for anything. That all changes when he has to take care of Ellie and he finds something to fight (and live) for again. Then they completely ruin in the second game what made the first so good. Edit: also this game wasn’t a tragic story for Ellie and Joel. It was just so overly indulgent and gratuitous with its violence that it wasn’t even being reflective of the harsh reality these characters live in and was instead just there to shock its audience. It felt like Naughty Dog was trying to recreate “the Red Wedding” but failed to see why that was effective and Joel’s death was not.

[@AzraealGamer]

I really enjoyed the first game. It wasn’t ground breaking that I was told. I just played it for the first time 2 months ago and beat it. My favorite part of the game was after ellie gets captured and Joel wakes up and gears up. You know he is about to fuck shit up. I actually laughed and said “here comes Joel and he’ll is following us in”. When he finds out they plan to kill ellie for the cure and even before he strikes I said “no fucking way”. I actually became invested in these characters. The banter between them was spot on. The ending felt like a good ending to their story and didn’t need a follow up to it. They fought across America, killing human enemies and zombie things. Survived near death, horrendous weather, and crazed lunatic humans bent on power or their own brand of survival. By the time it ended I was ready for the story to be over. I was like what else could they really do with it? I am glad I played it long after the hype for the game. Allowed me to have an unbiased opinion away from all the media. I don’t plan on playing part 2. The first gave us two characters with two different play styles. Joel is a power house. He can drop an enemy fast and keep on walking. Ellie was small and agile. You couldn’t go toe to toe like Joel with her. Learned that the hard way. Honestly I don’t want to play an older Ellie. Part of her charm was her extraordinary will to push on against all odds stacked against her knowing she needed Joel to help her through it all. And Joel needed her to help regain his humanity because he shut himself off emotionally from the world after Sarah’s death. No amount of story telling in a part 2 could recapture this dynamic and mean fully advance the story especially after killing off one of the two main characters from the first story. So long story short, part 2 doesn’t exist in my last of us storyline.

[@Fullmetal85]

You can thank this "Let's hate on white males" trope that has poisoned all forms of visual media.

[@aka-47k]

exactly that, esp since they fired the actual woman who wrote last of us cause she refused to sign off her name on 2 and its not corpo who actually is author but the human. so 2 is trash written by a rando.

[@ereon6]

I played part 2 and my immediate thought after that game was to wipe it from my headcanon. To me, there only exists the first game without DLC. That game is, in an essence, a fantastic, emotional, gripping, lovely game that I'm so happy I got to play. And pretending everything else doesn't exist allows me to continue to have that feeling of joy about the first one.

[@Alfredo.Rafael]

The first video I ever saw from The Critical Drinker back in 2020, never imagined this channel would grow so much. Cheers!

[@1000Gamernerd]

I remember people saying "where the hell is she finding all this protein?" when it came to Abby. 😂

[@sterling7]

There's something about a game that drags you along, forces you to do bad things, expects you to feel bad for "having" to do them, and yet refuses to allow you to make any real, story-affecting choices, that's always going to turn my stomach. It's basically the same reason I stopped playing TellTale's offerings; "be offered bad/false choices, be lectured for making bad/false choices, lather, rinse, repeat" isn't half as clever as the puppet-masters would like to think; it literally makes "I'm not going to play this" the only winning decision.

[@mikoto7693]

Exactly. It took me a long time to realise that’s one of the biggest reasons why I enjoy video games. I’ve always gravitated towards role playing games and especially those that give me choices. They don’t always have to be massive choices of course. But yeah, the Mass Effect series, Dragon Age, The Outer Worlds, Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, Fallout 3, New Vegas, Fallout 76 and Fallout 4 are examples of my favourite games either because in part the customisable world states or faction choices. I’m not sure why, but the settlement system in FO4 is really appealing to me. Combine with faction choice and it is one of my favourite games despite the flaws. That’s not to say I can’t or don’t enjoy more fixed games where there are far fewer choices such as Pokemon or some of the Final Fantasy series. If the characters, story and world are good then I’ll still enjoy it, it’s just that I gravitate towards choices. And yes, games that force you to either do bad things to progress, or just turn off the game entirely and then proceeds to lecture me about the terrible things my character did irritates me immensely. In those kinds of games the only way to win is to simply turn it off and find something else to play.

[@Fullmetal85]

Also, those choices don't count for anything. Might as well not even have them (even though the whole gimmick of the games is about player choices. They are fake choices but they are still there). I still remember playing the first Walking Dead and there was a choice about saving one person over another. The other would be left behind while traveling on a train. The one I chose to save died like 10 minutes later... Telltale died for me with that game.

[@raven75257]

​@@mikoto7693I'm sorry, but you like Fallout 4 because it gives you choices? Lmao

[@mikoto7693]

@@raven75257 Yes. Brotherhood of Steel, the Institute, the Railroad or the Minutemen. Those are called choices. Whether you bother with the settlements or leave them empty, that’s also a choice. The fate of Far Harbour? Of Nukaworld? All choices.

[@lunarlitso7654]

The fact that you literally just whipped up three alternative plots and endings that sound way better than what we initially got says a lot! Great work.

[@spub1031]

The man is a professional writer while druckman creates OCs

[@jase276]

Because he actually writes. While Neil surrounds himself with yesmen that suck him off.

[@tbk2010]

Have not played it, but seems to have a pattern that I noticed recently: The overuse of flashbacks to provide or change context after half of the story is already over. I get it, sometimes it's necessary to make the story flow better or keep to a character's POV. But I think mostly it's just an attempt at being clever, at blowing the audience's mind, only that it backfires and causes confusion and makes characters unrelatable. If context is missing early on the audience may not care about certain characters because they simply don't know them, but they would if they had the backstory already. Or the entire plot is confusing because key facts are only established later on, and instead of being intrigued the audience just gives up and stops caring. Then if context is changed or added later on it may be too late. The audience already lost interest. Or already has their own pet theory that turns out to be more interesting than what the writer came up with. Or, like with TLOU2, they already have a view on a character that no amount of new backstory will change.

[@tymonsulimastalman1727]

This narrative structure was intended as an emotional manipulation. First they pissed off the players with Joel's death, for a few hours they dilute their anger at Abby, especially by giving Joel-Ellie fanservice, and then the players then get pro-Abby propaganda. Obviously to get them on her side.

[@blahblah4242]

That’s probably the most generous yet honest review I have seen of this game

[@UniversalLevelThreat]

The entire story from start to finish is based on coincidence after coincidence. Aside from the fact the realism is gone the story just sucks. Here are some points: 1. Abby finding Joel right away is convenient 2. Convenient horde of infected deep in the forest and knee high snow haven't frozen solid 3. Tommy and Joel not treating her as a threat (they are both literally on patrol for raiders, hunters and infected) 4. Tommy giving both their names knowing both have a dark past (Tommy knows what Joel did) 5. Ellie has the drop on them 6. They leave Ellie alive 7. Ellie, Dina and Abby have superhuman powers (surviving great falls, explosions, stabs which showed to nearly kill Joel in Part 1) 8. People 25+ years into the apocalypse use the word bigot 9. They have a "trans" kid sidekick with Abby 10. Abby clearly is on steroids which she got from where? Literally impossible for a natural woman to look like her 11. Story switches characters right as you get Ellie decently upgraded 12. You have to play as Abby 13. THEY RETCONNED PART 1 (the fireflies admitted the tests were pointless and there was no cure there is clear evidence from a recording) 14. They paint Joel a bad guy when he is 100% in the right. They were going to waste Ellie's life, gave her no choice and took away the goodbye from Joel 15. Abby leaves Ellie alive again 16. Ellie leaves Abby alive 17. Almost every encounter and interaction that happens is based on coincidently bumping into the one you're looking for 18. Tommy guilting Ellie into going on a revenge mission is completely out of character and way too forced This is just a few of the nonsensical points I can still remember after all this time. I could break it all down from start to finish and prove it's undeniably dumb. That said Tlou2 has some of the best combat mechanics and graphics on PS5. Very brutal and fun gameplay from that aspect. Very well acted. Such a shame it turned out this way so they could "take risks" and tell a "compelling" story purely for shock value.

[@loudenlaffnite246]

Let me add 2 ridiculous contrivances: 1) A fully armed Ellie is shooting at Abby in the movie theatre, but when Ellie finally has Abbie at point-blank range backstage just moments later, she puts away the gun and decides to use a 2x4 and wrestle with her instead. 2) Tommy is sniping at Abby for 10 minutes straight at the marina, but when Tommy finally has Abbie at point-blank range on the dock just moments later, he tries to butt-end her with the rifle and wrestle with her instead.

[@UniversalLevelThreat]

@@loudenlaffnite246 Oh buddy there are far more than what we both listed lol. The game is honestly pathetic writing and story direction anyone who thinks otherwise is blind and complacent

[@professionalcynic3836]

I agree on all fronts, but the last one might have a possible explanation. Tommy might have brain damage from his non-lethal headshot, and people have been known to develop altered personalities because of said trauma.

[@UniversalLevelThreat]

@@professionalcynic3836 This is true but such a weak reason if they used that to justify his behavior. It's never hinted at or implied in any way that is why he guilts Ellie into a suicide mission. It's just another way for them to make all the favorite characters from Part 1 be the bad guys.

[@pedolover69]

its not impossible for women to look like abby, but abby looks unnaturally masculine which is a side effect of steroids. Natural women usually get curvier and more shapely from muscle.

[@am3thysts]

I think that the game’s potential to be one of the best videogame stories ever is what made people hate this game even more passionately. The whole game just aches of wasted potential and the creators attempting to shoehorn in inclusivity bonus points instead of focusing on character, relationships, and plot.

[@halohybrid5496]

3:16 4:50 6:03 Ellie’s gay by the way. Lol I like how you repeat that fact like how the game holds that subjective over our heads and shove it down our throats. Never fails to crack me up.

[@Next3Exits]

"Ellie's gay by the way..." Haha, never got old!

[@IgnizAnima]

I want to, once again, point out that it was only the POTENTIAL for a cure. Odds are they would have killed Ellie and been no closer to eradicating the fungal infection than they were before. Joel killed them all to save her because it wasn't worth the risk and they were taking Ellie's agency away from her. She didn't get to make a decision, she would just be sacrificed.

[@Roboticus_Prime_RC]

This. Ellie wasn't the first immune kid they killed trying to find a cure. There were a few dozen before her. You found that out from the audio tapes you find when working your way through to save her. Once I found that one, full-on papa-bear mode engaged, and I didn't leave a single one standing.

[@An_Actual_Rat]

More importantly, you can't vaccinate against a fungus. The fungus itself was mutated and could've been sampled with a simple biopsy, no killing required.

[@mikoto7693]

@@Roboticus_Prime_RCFor some reason, from the perspective of someone who hasn’t played either game but has heard all about them, I find that quite disappointing. It takes away the power of that ending. If Ellie had been the first immune kid and they really could have made a cure from her and Joel rescued her anyway because he’d bonded with her and saw her as his daughter, that would’ve been powerful and people would probably still debate which way the correct decision. But making it that there has been up to a dozen immune children that they unalived trying and failing to make create a cure from, it unambiguously makes Joel right and them wrong. They were evil, he was good and that’s the end of it. It’s also peculiar that after the fifth or sixth immune child was born, why they didn’t stop with the experiments. If so many children are being born immune it means that humanity is starting to adjust, and our species could recover. That would give me incredible hope for the future. If humanity could survive these first few generations until nearly all the population is immune and could keep breeding more and more, eventually the infected could be driven back. There could be a future, maybe a century or two ahead, where humanity is basically immune and has enough numbers to reclaim large parts of the world and start rebuilding civilisation. Eventually perhaps the infected could be driven way back into the most isolated, distant areas or eradicated entirely. Perhaps even a cure could be developed once humanity has reclaimed enough resources and technology to do so. And I’d be okay with that. Even if a cure was never developed during my lifetime I would be content with doing everything I possibly could to protect, nurture and educate the immune children. Even if there was no hope for me personally there would be for humanity. I doubt I’d be the only one to feel that way. Imagine a group of survivors whose sole objective was to locate and protect anyone they could find, especially the immune children. Ah well, it is what it is.

[@Wadacup]

​@@mikoto7693from my understanding, they were getting closer with each sacrifice. But regardless, even if Ellie had led to a successful vaccine, only those not yet turned would be protected against infection. The vast millions of fungus zombies would have to be eradicated the hard way still. It could easily be argued as well that the Fireflies had neither the capability or infrastructure to manufacture enough vaccines. And that they would use it to solely further their own power and goals to the detriment of everyone else. Why would the give the vaccine to the leftover Military, for instance?

[@Wadacup]

​@@mikoto7693​from my understanding, they were getting closer with each sacrifice. But regardless, even if Ellie had led to a successful cure, only those not yet turned would be protected against fungal infec. The vast millions of fungus zombies would have to be eradicated the hard way still. It could easily be argued as well that the Fireflies had neither the capability or infrastructure to manufacture enough cures. And that they would use it to solely further their own power and goals to the detriment of everyone else. Why would the give the cure to the leftover Military, for instance? Had to edit my comment as the v word made it get self-deleted

[@billybatts8283]

How is it Ellie is so tough? She was raised in a safe zone so she had no survival experience whatsoever. She goes out with Joel and he does all the work, she learns to shoot a rifle and bow ok fine. She has a one on one with some dude, she sneaks around and jumps on him because he lets her.... Then she wakes up in a car and is living in another safe zone with a massive chip on her shoulder... Same with Abbey and all the young ones in this game... Joel survives 20 plus years, many outside the walls of a city. What he does at the end of one should give him a reputation like John Wick, people should be terrified of him.... Instead they all mock him as a little bitch.... This is why I'm very pro ff7 remake/rebirth as so far they've not destroyed Cloud and journey may have additional stops but the destination is the same....

[@norwegianblue2017]

One of my pet peeves with modern games/movies is how they have female characters who are routinely able to overpower strong adult men/soldiers with their bare hands and snap their necks like twigs. It's just stupid, whether in this game or Tomb Raider or Uncharted. Resident Evil handles this much better. Claire and Jill are bad ass, but they are still women. They kill with guns and knives and there are even some parts where they can't pass because they aren't strong enough to move a heavy object, where male characters can. Even Ada, who is a professionally trained secret agent in RE4 doesn't kick as hard as Leon does. She has her own set of strengths and skills that aren't brute strength. It is important to keep some things somewhat realistic to maintain the suspension of disbelief unless the game is pure fantasy with magical powers and whatnot.

[@t-dawg5265]

I don’t think the Final Fantasy 7 remake games deserve praise for not ruining a character lmao. Especially with how much the remake completely ruins the original.

[@billybatts8283]

​@@t-dawg5265I'm a fan of the original FF7, played it when it came out as a kid and still have the original ps1 copy. I don't think the remake ruins it at all. You can not like it fine, but the original game still exists. It's not been retconned with the original deleted and then re-released. And Remake still follows the exact same basic story just with additional content. But it will all end in the same place.

[@vectorsahel5420]

You said the truth, but it's a video game. What most people care about is how good the story is and not realism, do theres that. But I agree with you, this trope is so dumb when it's not the least bit believeable

[@lastridge]

Why does it say this was uploaded 1 month ago?

[@iketurner8212]

11:32 This right here is my biggest issue with Neil Druckmann and some of the TLOU2 fandom - the point that was made about how they tried to retcon Joel's choice at the end of TLOU1 is spot on.

[@GrizzdGG]

Great review. My biggest issue with the game was how exempt it was from criticism at launch (I guess it still is). Anything suggesting TLOU 2 wasn't a work of art and a masterpiece of our time meant you were 'homophobic' or scared of a woman with muscles.

[@CrazyxEnigma]

Fanboys would zealously decry any criticism as you're a hater/homophobe etc. at worst and at best you'd get the condescending "oh you weren't smart enough to get it". No I got it this was a vanity project from Neil Druckmann and is exactly what he wanted to do in the first but was told no because the idea of somebody pursuing someone across the post apocalyptic US alone on foot for revenge when surviving was such a struggle didn't make a lot of sense. Unfortunately Bruce Straley wasn't involved in this game to tell Druckmann what didn't work and what needed to be tweaked and that's pretty apparent to me.

[@ssplif5415]

Tell me y this game sucks without telling me “Joel was disrespected” or “he shouldn’t of trusted strangers” “or abby was spared” all of u just regurgitate the same shit

[@GrizzdGG]

@@ssplif5415 I never said the game sucks. I did think TLOU2 was boring and the gameplay did nothing for me. I thought it was style over substance and if the story didn't grab you (I didn't care for it) the gameplay wasn't strong enough to carry it. Besides, what's wrong with people bringing up those points you mentioned? Perfectly valid. People lambasted the recent Suicide Squad game for how certain heroes were killed. Just a heavy handed way to force an emotional response from the player.

[@RL-]

​@@ssplif5415 that's because they're all valid criticisms. Anyone with half a brain (the kind that hasn't been pummeled by a golf club, I guess) can easily pick this game apart. Anyone else was easily manipulated by cheap tricks and literal fraud.

[@Mr_Bones.]

It’s funny, because no one is actually homophobic (as in literally terrified of gays). That’s just the word gay people use to verbally terrorize normal people to accept them. And as for the women with muscles thing. Did the TLoU2 ever explain how a girl consistently injected testosterone in a world with zero hygiene, zero clean needles, zero fresh testosterone (shelf life is 2 years, Abbigail is swole 20 years after the collapse of all society), and scarce resources? How was Abbigail muscular in a world where every day is a struggle for food? Almost all the men are shown to be skinny athletic built, but Abbigail is Hulk Hogan? Okay This game only makes sense if you bang your head against the wall.

[@Laughy-Flaaffy]

It’s interesting that this game launched around the same time as Red Dead Redemption 2, with them killing off their main character, and how much of a difference fans praised that game’s handling of losing the main character compared to how fans despised how Naughty Dog handled that for this game. Simply put, one game did it the right way, and the other game did it the wrong way.

[@username.exenotfound2943]

killing joel off would always be a bad move since poeple had spent YEARS waiting to play as him again and he just gets into a golfing accident

[@An_Actual_Rat]

​@@username.exenotfound2943I think a lot of people expected him to die and would be fine with it as long as there was some element of dignity involved. Killing him could be a very cathartic experience that would've elevated the story, but they chose to do the complete opposite.

[@oneyplayes465]

It’s a story where certain people are chosen by writers to get plot protection and where some are not.

[@TornadoADV]

I like the part where every single jewish religious item in the game cannot be damaged in any way, but all Christian religious symbols have full destructive modeling.

[@Iceman16231]

The first game for me was a masterpiece, I hate part two with the heat of a thousand suns.

[@colemanfoster8972]

critical is the most legit reviewer we have here on youtube we must protect him at all cost

[@doublebrewski1855]

But who's gonna protect his liver from himself? 😅

[@shirokatatsu5886]

​@@doublebrewski1855His liver is immortal like him

[@iamrage4753]

Yes, we must preserve him in whisky 😂

[@samwallaceart288]

Oh no! You did a pipeline!

[@viewer3412]

Dear Critical Drinker, I’ve enjoyed your lengthy review of TLOU2 and I believe in your sincerity of the good and bad points of the game. I haven’t played it, yet watched playthroughs like they were popcorn movies. I liked your first thoughts of the game when it came out years ago, especially when you constantly remind the audience, “Ellie’s gay, by the way,” like a true alcoholic who forgets what they’ve said not five minutes ago. This time out, I feel you’ve given a second chance with this game with a second review and I’ve felt you’ve bent the knee towards the designers of a bold game done wrong. I don’t begrudge your convictions, for they were rightly earned since you sweated the alcohol out of you when slogging through repetitive gameplay. I do believe there’s an ulterior motive in your review: You want more of what they produce so you can forge ahead with more aptly phrased reviews, and I say: I salute you, Sir! I certainly hope you’ve convinced the game developers to take another golf swing at it. Heaven knows there are plenty of SBI companies out there to poison the IP, no matter the good intentions of game designers. And you know, for sure, I’d bet a round of drinks for the house that HBO will soldier on making Season 2 of TLOU. The first season did really well, and the second season just chimes out “The Message” and all the other SBI tropes that attracts Hollywood producers to dive into it like mice to traps baited with cheese and peanut butter. Alas, my beer is drunk and my shot glass is empty, I must bed down on the comfy sidewalk. “Ellie’s gay, by the way.”-Drinker, you’re a meme generator. Cheers!

[@starchazer272]

Fuck Drunkman, and I mean Neil, not our beloved Critical one.