Revised tow limits

[@ThatMicro43Guy]

I’ve never been pulled over to be weighed but I did take my outfit to my local weighbridge. I got a full vehicle weight but they weighed each individual axel which gave me the vehicle weight by adding the front and rear axels plus the caravan weight by its axle. The vehicle was never disconnected from the caravan for the weighing.

[@carlfisher5195]

I just wanted say.. What a great video...!! 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

Oh, thank you..

[@merv690]

I totally agree with you on this, and the caravan club always advised the 85% rule, all I can say is having worked in agriculture and having driven different machines trust me having the load (or what ever you are towing) heaver than the towing vehicle is fine unless it tries to overtake you😓😓

[@maureenheasman5897]

Someone will always want to push the envelope to fit their individual needs. Perhaps their tow car is too small. Don’t do it. Having experienced an improper loading of my caravan. The said caravan pushing us forward on downward hills and the tail wagging the dog. I feel this anomaly is irrelevant and dangerous. Stick to the 85% guidance recommendations. I’ve used this ever since and not had an issue. Even under slippery conditions with emergency braking

[@aeberdeencyclecam30]

@@maureenheasman5897 I've had some scary moments with a caravan. Like you, going downhill on bends, gave some anxious moments that I would not like to repeat. A twin-axle caravan has been a revelation in that regard. I can't believe how stable it is. I don't think I would like to go back to a single axle.

[@supergroups]

I always remember a statement made by an instructor when I went on a defensive driving course some years ago. It went "what is safe isn't always legal but equally what is legal isn't always safe! As a driver you have a duty at all times to drive both legally and safely and you can be prosecuted for failing in either." On the issue of how your vehicle weights are measured when pulled over by police at spot checks, they usually use single wheel scales. Each wheel is measured in turn, including the nose wheel and the actual weight is the sum of them all. The police use a heavy duty version but one for caravans is sold by Reich. I don't understand why all caravan dealers don't have have them as a matter of course but I've never come across one who does!

[@DTSquared]

I agree that caravan manufacturers and/or dealers should have scales. We weighed our van when loaded and the outcome was surprising. After seeing what most people carry and how vague the manufacturers are about what the MIRO figure includes . I suspect that most caravans are over their weight limit. The manufacturers should weigh the van as it comes of the production line and provide a certificate stating the weight and what extras, if any, that includes.

[@baz4x4r]

Darren. Good video and well done holding your hands up. I agree it is all very confusing. I think if you have a closed mind and think you know everything you are on a slippery slope. Especially as the goal posts keep changing.

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

Yes, I’ve been up at the show talking to colleagues and I think I’ve changed a few of their opinions on it too..

[@stehume]

Good video. Totally agree with you on your points. I think most people carry more then the Mtplm as you see then get to a site then so much comes out the van and then the car. I get that you can nik 100kg from the car weight to put in the van but I don't know of any van that gives you any weight freedom to do this as you know they don't have much user payload anyway all the best

[@kevinlawrence2127]

I've had it when touring various dealers, the salesmen not taking us seriously seeing my wife's small car, when we were looking at a 4 berth caravans. Their attitude changed somewhat showing us any large single/double axle caravans, when explained I have a large 4x4 as the tow vehicle that can legally tow up to 3500Kgs in the UK. The caravan we bought eventually, the MPTLM is 1550Kg's. so well below the recommended 85% towing limit. As for the tail-wag dog syndrome. Various factors come into play:- Incorrectly loaded and or overloaded trailer/caravan. Nose weight, passing or being passed by large vehicles. Strong Cross winds

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

I always ask what the customer is towing when in the situation, most customers have more than 1 car.

[@nevwood]

Having had first hand experience in this towing a swift elegence 645 twinny with a 5 series bmw which by the way the dealer said i could everythings ok until you run into difficutly caravan snaking I then did loads of research and realised A,some dealers will do anything for a sale B, Caravan clubs recommendation of 85% max is spot on ,so Darren i would not change your way from old cos its good info DO NOT EXCEED THE WEIGHT OF THE VEHICLE you are endangering yourself and other road users, i also spoke to the police regarding this they didnt really have a clue

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

@@nevwood definitely, as I said, it’s academic as I wouldn’t go anywhere near these limits, it’s just strange that you can.

[@aeberdeencyclecam30]

I tow with a renault trafic van, mainly because I carry bikes and I like them to be inside, clear of rain / water. The van weighs 1840 kg, but it has a gross permissible weight of 2000kg. Our caravan has a gross of 1640kg, and we wouldn't have it loaded to that, so I'm within the 100%, but in theory I could go over it. I've had at the back of my mind that the VIN plate trumps everything else. Another issue I've read about is the axle weight. The VIN tells you maximum for front / rear axle, but if you have a load in the back, and a heavy noseweight caravan, then it is possible to exceed the rear axle weight inadvertently.

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

Yes, this is getting into a whole other world of issues, I’d never considered axle weight, but I certainly know trades who tow with vehicles with all their kit in.

[@RobertParker-w9y]

I purchased a new caravan with a motor mover, leisure battery and gas bottle(all located ahead of the axle). When I hooked it up to my car it looked like front wheels were nearly off the ground. With nothing to counter balance the additional items it was not safe to drive away, easily solved by moving the full gas bottle to the caravan interior which was not ideal for my new pride and joy. My point really is the caravan in running order should not have grossly exceeded the 85kg nose weight limit of my car.

[@charliegould5865]

I have a Volvo XC60 it has a maximum towing weight of 2400Kg, the cars curb side weight is 1945Kg. So the manufacturers are saying it’s capable of towing a weight higher than itself. So long as the trailer is properly loaded and the brakes are fully serviceable the trailer (or caravan) weight can exceed the weight of the tow vehicle. I’ve seen Land Rover Discovery’s towing trailers loaded with a Land Rover Discovery, so the tow vehicle is towing its own weight plus the weight of a trailer, that’s probably around a 1000Kg more than the weight of the tow vehicle

[@sccobyste]

There are loads of variables. Most important is being safe for you and others then there is nose weight and the actual capability of the vehicles engine. And I always tow at no more than 85%

[@awolwakefieldyorkshire]

Hi Darren. I passed my manual car test after 1997 "new ruling" and also my PCV semi auto 6 weeks later. I only found out a month ago that i can now tow a caravan up to a certain weight. The total train weight for both is i believe 7 ton for post 1997. I knew about the 85% rule when my former girlfriend was a member of the Caravan & Camping club. At that time she towed a small camping trailer and the Caravan & Camping club used to circulate a monthly magazine which advised on suitable towing vehicles etc. Knowing about the 85% rule made common sense to me and i can't believe DVSA haven't acknowledged this. When i found out i could tow a trailer a month ago i was looking for a small camper at this caravan sales. A caravan cleaner told me they changed the ruling a few years ago so this opened my eyes to look for a different car and a suitable caravan' I haven't a clue what car and caravan combination to look for as i'm purchasing both second hand. My present car is a 21 year old Citroen Picasso which is on its last legs

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

Have a look at my online course at My Ideal Caravan, there is lots of information on there about how to work out what to buy.

[@johnmatthews5257]

I started looking into weights after looking to buy a new PHEV car, and being told that it can’t tow anything above 1350kg (train weight). My confusion was with the fact it stated kerb weight as 1900kg, using 85% CAMC advice this took my van well in but exceeded train weight. Does kerb weight have any relevance now.

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

It is a safety issue, but not a legal one, so it is still relevant, but in your case it actually helps the safety issue as it’s so heavy. It would be interesting to see what the vin plate on the car actually says, and who is saying it can’t tow and why?

[@NeverlateinaV8]

I always thought the same as you , the Caravan club recommends your Caravan is 85% the weight of your towing vehicle, I used to run a Passat when empty the caravan was 105% of the car , I made sure the car was heavy loaded but was still a-bit dodgy when heavy braking , ( I drive an artic for a living so used to heavy loads ) have since changed to a Navara pickup with a towing capacity of 3.5 ton and can carry 2.5 ton , I’m sure it could be close with all the gear we take 😁

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

Yes, you never tow empty so it was probably around the 85% anyway. There can be lots of factors to consider when towing, a lot of the time issues come down to bad luck.

[@soreeyesuk]

Majority of vans and pickups the manufacturer will quote in their figures that the towing limit is based on the weight carried in the vehicle either you carry it or tow it but not both to stay inside train weight .

[@rodfarrendon9470]

Wow 😮, totally agree with you Darren, the law of physics rules! Or as you put it, "never let the tail wag the dog" 🐶

[@paulbower5274]

great info again thanks. thats really chucked a spanner in the works 🤔

[@graemeelliott4147]

The vehicle towing weight limit is surely calculated worst case (i.e. with a full complement of passengers and luggage). Therefore, with less passengers/luggage the vehicle towing weight limit will naturally be increased. However, rather than add any additional weight to the caravan, I prefer to add it to the vehicle (storing the awning in the car boot for example).

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

I don’t know that it is, and yes, it would be better to have a heavier tow vehicle.

[@graemeelliott4147]

@@atlanticcaravansUK The A figure on the vehicle VIN plate is the Maximum Allowable Mass (MAM). This figure is derived from the kerb weight plus passengers and payload. All towing limits and stuff are then calculated from this figure.

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

@@graemeelliott4147 yes, but if you don’t tow with the vehicle at this figure, you can add any weight savings to the thing being towed, as long as the combination doesn’t exceed the gross train weight. That’s what seems daft and dangerous to me…

[@graemeelliott4147]

@@atlanticcaravansUK My point is, the towing capacity of a vehicle is calculated using the MAM, so the resulting towing figure features worst case passenger and payload. The calculation being MAM (line A on the VIN plate) minus Gross Train Weight (line B on the VIN plate) = The towing capacity. Therefore, if you only have two passengers there is more scope to add some weight if you need to. It's all a balancing act of course depending on your outfit.

[@GrahamOrrell-d5p]

Someone has mentioned but equally important are the axel weight limits which also must not be exceeded. This makes everything a lot more complicated.Each axel has a stated weight limit that must not be exceeded, so a heavier nose weight adds weight to the rear axel of the car as well as your passengers and load in the boot,I will leave you to do the maths and make sure you are legal and safe.

[@ThatMicro43Guy]

I’ve been doing this for years. I have a Skoda Octavia with a MPGTW of 1600Kg but I’ve been towing a Swift Conqueror with a MTPLM of 1650Kg so 50Kg over the limit. The car weighs over 1800Kg loaded so I’m still over the 100%. We only travel as a couple and never have the car fully loaded so never have less than 50Kg spare in the car. I was told this was ok by an inspector at the DVLA weigh Bridge near me when I took the outfit to be weighed. I’ve towed that van safely for thousands of miles throughout the British isles. I also have a Mercedes ML with a gross weight of around 2800Kg yet on its plate (under your stated calculations) and V5 I can tow 3500Kg which of course more than 100% of the vehicle weight.

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

Yes, so on my old way of thinking I would have said you were illegal.. turns out not.

[@ThatMicro43Guy]

@@atlanticcaravansUK i class myself as an experienced tower, I have been towing all sorts of things for 40 years, caravans, glider trailers and a whole lot more. Towing with that setup was, for me, relatively safe but pushing the limits means that you can never relax too much especially as the speed increases or you are going downhill. Plus I am almost OCD about getting the nose weight right, not just what the book says but by being aware of any changes I make. That makes a huge difference. However, irrespective of what the law allows I still believe an over specified tow vehicle which is within its limits is by far the best option which is why I bought the Mercedes ML. Its loaded (train) weight is far more than my caravan takes it to (I could almost tow double that legally)and it has huge torque so the caravan (which is now up-plated by Swift to 1775Kg) has much less chance of influencing the tow vehicle. It means that I can relax more and towing is far less tiring. We all live and learn and we are all allowed to be wrong, the respect comes from being open minded enough to learn and adapt. So respect to you mate. Oh….subscribed by the way

[@ThatMicro43Guy]

@@atlanticcaravansUK one thing I didn’t say, I’m also as OCD about not overloading the caravan. For me the MPTLM is an extreme limit not a target to aim for.

[@miked8623]

I own a 2021 Rav 4 AWD the max towing recommended is 1650kg. The one other denominator which can catch you out is a maximum nose weight of the caravan im pulling . The nose weight at the back of the car which is 70kg on the Rav 4 (Quite low) and is their because if you go over it ,it will start and lift the front wheels and this effects the safety and stability of the vehicle.

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

70kg is achievable, you just have to organize the caravan correctly..

[@michaelhayes9975]

Interesting! I always thought the manufacturers maximum towing weight ways based on what the vehicle was capable of pulling without overtaxing the drivetrain? Having said that why then is the unbraked limit always less than the braked limit as this would have no bearing on pulling capacity. It must surely be based more on the cars braking ability rather than pulling power but even that doesn’t make much sense to me. Regardless of any legal ramifications I still believe you are correct in the principle that towing something heavier than the towing vehicle is asking for trouble. As a matter of interest we have taken our last two caravans to a certified weigh bridge (miles away) and neither weighed what the manufacturers plate stated. Furthermore the results are only accurate within a tolerance so you can never be absolutely certain of the true weights. I have never seen a roadside check in operation recently although some years ago they were more prevalent. I believe they operate a mobile weighing device rather than taking you to a static weigh bridge as there are so few of these still in operation. Keep up the good work much appreciated 👍

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

I see the maximum weight as a safety issue. I assumed they tested the vehicle to see what it could tow without being dangerous.

[@aeberdeencyclecam30]

My understanding is that unbraked weight is always the same, 750kgs, because that is a legal limit. We aren't allowed to tow more than that without it having brakes.

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

@@aeberdeencyclecam30 yes, non of this applies to unbraked..

[@kevingurner992]

I tow with a f150 which weighs about 3500kg but design tow weight is 5000kg max, gets very complicated with imports as they don't conform too EU standards, I now tow a austrailian spec offroad caravan with electric disc brakes, my old Bailey caused brake loss twice in the alps and pirinees, I thought max override brakes are 3500kg.

[@wxw9]

I have to say I have always used the same logic as you....irrespective of the fact that it is actually different, I would still continue doing the same as it seems illogical to have greater weight being towed ...85% in my head is a good place to be, 100% at a push never over 100% IMHO... only thing I would add to this is the importance of maintaining the correct (front biased) nose weight!... Credit to you for admission of not knowing the actual facts, but really ... don't beat yourself up as what you have always thought and advised is the safe way to tow. Thanks for another good vlog and keep going!

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

Thanks, even the 100% guides line is a bit floored as you’ll not often tow with the car empty with only the driver, there is always extra load in it.

[@Caravanningwiththehoopers]

It's the same with vehicles' nose weight limit, many believe the limit set by the vehicle manufacturer is the legal maximum weight, it's not, that's a recommended maximum weight based on a fully-loaded vehicle The vehicles legal nose weight limit is the S value stated on the tow bar assembly itself, all EC type approved tow bars will have this weight stated on it somewhere, what can catch some people out is this sometimes with some aftermarket kits can be a lower weight than what the vehicle manufacturer states but in many instances it's more For instance, I have a VW Touareg which VW say the limit is 140kg, however, my tow bar assembly is plated at 195kg, providing I don't exceed the vehicle's rear axle and maximum plated weight I can tow a trailer with a nose weight of 195kg (assuming the trailer hitch is also rated to that)

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

There is a limit on the caravans hitch as well, but I think it’s 150kg, which is well above practical application.

[@steamdrivenandy6880]

I totally agree with you. However one point you've not mentioned is that the car's towing limit is the maximum weight that the car maker will warrant the vehicle for. So if the car is under warranty and they suspect its been towing more than their limit then they may refuse a relevant warranty claim. Again that might bea bit like the accident with stuff all over the motorway etc but things maybe like transmission breakages or damage through overheating or maybe even burnt out brakes might make them invoke that limitation. On another tack I've never really understood the tail/dog analogy because even if the car's Kerbweight (i.e. empty weight) is tha same as the caravan's MTPLM (i.e 100%), the car is likely, in most towing situations to be much heavier than its kerbweight and therefore actually running at 85%, whilst those using 85% as their guidance are probably actually running at about 70% so unless you substantially exceed 100% there is no way that the caravan is heavier than the car. So two further points for you to consider.

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

I do actually mention the 85% thing you speak about in the last video I did on tow weights (which I’m going to have to re do) and that in real world use you can allow for extra weight in the vehicle to push the limit of the caravan. That is interesting on the warranty issue, didn’t think, or know about that..

[@grantrandall1674]

Very interesting. Especially when you consider that the caravan brakes are designed with mtplm in mind. If you move mass from a towcar to the trailer, you are removing brake efficiency from a better able and calibrated platform on to a lesser able platform which depends on the compression of a tow hitch to initiate braking. Caravan brakes will wear faster as well. If the towcar is Electric, then it may benefit from carying the weight as the regeneration will save the brake pads, at least at lower speeds. It should also benefit the train stability. Also note that the 85% rule doesn't apply to most modern vehicles, esp, EVs. It stikes me that if the law allows the transfer of mass like this, then in thiis case, its a bit of an ass! 😄

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

You can transfer the mass, but you still can’t exceed the MTPLM of the caravan, and the brakes will be rated well above the MTPLM of the caravan, it’s the stability towing that I would have the biggest issue with. But I don’t expect anyone would actually do this.

[@grantrandall1674]

I'll have to listen again. I thought that's what you were saying!...

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

@@grantrandall1674 if you did want to tow like this, which most people wouldn’t, it means you can change you caravan for one with a higher MTPLM over what the total permissible braked trailer weight said, as long as you didn’t load the car up.

[@kennethwebb4385]

I assumed that the max towing limit set by the car manufacturer is based on the structural strength of the chassis and engine power

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

I’ll have to do another video I think, you can’t go over the MTPLM, and bearing in mind most peoples MTPLM’s are below the total permissible braked trailer weight, it would involve buying a new caravan with a higher MTPLM to be able to do this.But I’m certainly not recommending that.

[@retro423]

Another thing to throw into the mix is the caravan nose weight, if for instance it is 90kg then that is transferred to the car which is then part of the cars payload and subtracted from the caravan gross weight

[@mikekeith2474]

I don't care , the MIRO is the only weight you can be sure of. Unless you weigh everything you put in the van or car you can't know the weight, you have to use the MTPLM that's the max for the chassis set by the manufacturer. The towing capacity for the car is set by the manufacturer, be safe use the figures provided for safety . By the way I did your advance drain down and I'm well pleased with the result so thanks for that tip. 👍

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

I agree, and that is what I recommend to be safe, but the total permissible braked trailer weight in the hand book, isn’t actually true. You can ‘legally’ tow over it, but like I said, I wouldn’t ever advise it. I’m glad you got the drain down.. that was a tough one to explain.

[@nickwildman8327]

I didn’t know that either! I’d always taken the braked trailer weight as a maximum. However just because it’s legal, it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s sensible. Like you say, very subjective. I’m still going to stick to the original numbers.

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

Definitely, it’s in the wording, total permissible braked trailer weight.. but it’s not!

[@philipodwyer8556]

If vehicle manufacturers put one more column in the vin plate with a figure on it grey area made very black and white then simple solution.

[@martinehulme8743]

I'm totally confused.. 😮

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

So was I to be fair. Just use the caravan clubs guidelines and you’ll be fine.

[@bry9585]

100% is 100 % these extras will confuse new people to towing saw a pick up with massive trailer yesterday big advert on side this trailer can carry 3.75 tons call this number thought 3.5t was limit currently in xtrail 72 plate 1800 limit towing a deleff 1500kg happy would not tow anymore than that decent honest chap this one would buy products services if I was close by.

[@mikepascalethompson8061]

Hi Darren, Well this has been an eye opener. I changed my towing vehicle to a Ford Ranger Wildtrack which allows me to tow up to 3500kg and the tow ball allows up to 350kg. Looking at MTPLM on my caravan is an additional 160kg. What I can’t understand is, one if I bought a new caravan, they can send me a sticker with an upgrade on plate weight. I know they shower lower plate weights as cars are getting lighter - but surely the caravan manufacturers should be able to give you a choice showing the maximum plate weight all the time. Something is wrong here. What are your thoughts on this? Cheers, Mike

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

Once you get a plate upgrade that’s it, you have to remove the old plate and fix the new one on, like you said the manufacturers do it to bring the van within reach on more vehicles if it’s lower.

[@mikepascalethompson8061]

@@atlanticcaravansUK so Darren, Listening to your latest video, are you saying we do not need to get a plate upgrade as it doesn’t matter providing we do not exceed our permissible trailer weight? Apologies if I sound as though I’m going round this the hard way. Love your videos. 👍

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

⁠​⁠@@mikepascalethompson8061 no, you can’t exceed the plated MTPLM of the caravan, you’d still have to get an upgrade if you want to go heavier, but you can exceed the permissible braked trailer weight, but you’d never want to in the real world..

[@mikepascalethompson8061]

@@atlanticcaravansUK Thank you Darren, I totally agree with sticking to your original videos and other companies that state the 85% rule and 100% rule for experienced caravaners. Why has it become so complicated 🤔 (No need to answer) I’m just going to watch your video 3 or 4 more times for it to sink in. God bless Darren, looking forward to your reply to my email later on during the week. Cheers, Mike T

[@susanashurst7206]

Good on you, for admitting what you and others of us thought all the time, but I have to say that I think that what you thought and are saying is probably the safest way to tow, because as we all know that just because it's legal doesn't mean to say that it's morally correct or good for you!

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

@@susanashurst7206 thanks, it’s been a bit of a learning curve..

[@paultopham8553]

I would always make the towing car as heavier than the trailer and disable lane assist as it can turn so suddenly an send you into a snake.

[@beccabeme]

On my car, once the caravan electrics are plugged in, lane assist and blindspot monitoring is automatically disabled

[@robhargraves3805]

The caravan manual says you must not exceed the plated MTPLM.

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

That’s correct, you can only transfer weight if the MTPLM of the caravan allows it, but like I said, I don’t think anyone would seriously contemplate doing this.

[@theFijian]

Tl;dr version?

[@jasogolledge4929]

So what happens when you get stopped and your caravan is over it's plated weight

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

You still can’t go over the caravans MTPLM. But in theory you could tow a caravan with a larger MTPLM.

[@jasogolledge4929]

@@atlanticcaravansUK So I am lost when you say you can put more in your caravan you can only put what it's plated to then

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

@@jasogolledge4929 yes, I didn’t mention this in the video which I should have, you can only add weight to the caravan if there is room to do so on the plate, but like I said, you wouldn’t want to go near any of these figures in real life, it’s legal, but not safe.

[@jasogolledge4929]

@@atlanticcaravansUK Would never to a van heavier than my car anyway

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

@@jasogolledge4929no, definitely not.. but legally you can, which is daft in my mind.

[@shottostravels]

Youve confused the hell out of me?😊 Lets say my car has a maximum permissable weight of 1.5 ton. With a max train weight of 2.5 ton. Lets say my van has an mtplm of 1.0 ton. So as long as I dont exceed these limits Im legal. 2.5 ton max. If I 'borrow' a bit of the limit from the car to the van then it may be within the overall gross train weight of the combination but surely you are exceeding the mtplm of the caravan which is set by the manufacturer based on , chassis, brakes, size, build etc. Lets face it, the caravan mtplm is not all that generous normally by the time youve got motor movers, awnings, batteries, gas etc etc. Im a bit baffled. I get what you are saying about overall train weight but surely you mustnt overload either vehicle individually? Im off to lie down in a dark room for a bit👍

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

@@shottostravels you’re right you can’t overload any vehicle, and in the real world I wouldn’t go anywhere near any of this, but it does mean you could tow a caravan with a higher MTPLM, if you didn’t exceed the Gross train weight and the tow vehicle wasn’t full up.

[@shottostravels]

@@atlanticcaravansUK Hi, to my mind it's just an anomaly, a silly technicality that doesn't really mean much. I do know that the only weight that matters is the Actual weight of the combination at the time you are pulled up. That's why they weigh you. Then they consult the plates on both vehicles. This is important because it may allow you to pull a caravan that is technically to big ( on the mtplm of the van) on the plate because actually it's empty, so not up to it's maximum limit at the time. Therefore it's actually within the limits. Like your speed limit analogy. They don't prosecute you because your car will do 150 miles and hour. Only on the speed at the time.

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

@@shottostravels yes, it’s just knowing what weight you are towing, which unless you go to a weight bridge it’s hard to tell.

[@raymondporter2094]

Put your heavy awning into the car (back seat, footwell, boot).

[@Bessie66]

We bought our first cheap second hand caravan this year - unfortunately we had to change the estate car that we had to legally tow it - not a cheap caravan now ! 🤬

[@iangiles7038]

Hi Darren That’s a interesting blog and a lot of people do get confused I’ve got a question? If you was looking for a caravan and a dealership was advertising one at trade price because it as had a large damp repair ( 3 to 4 thousand pounds ) would you consider buying that van

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

That’s a tricky one, you’d be relying on the quality of the repair, are they still going to give it a warranty?

[@iangiles7038]

If it’s sold as trade I believe that means no warranty has the price has been reduced

[@davidsalkeld4473]

So how does this affect up plating is it fraud?

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

No, up plating is okay, as all that has happened is that the manufacturers have ‘down plated’ to make it more attractive to a bigger market, so you are not going over any limit set by the axle manufacturer, just going back to what it was originally.

[@davidsalkeld4473]

@@atlanticcaravansUK So is it illegal to tow with a higher weight than the plate? After what you have said.

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

⁠​⁠@@davidsalkeld4473 yes, you can’t go over any total weights, the vehicle, the caravan or the gross train weight.

[@boblewendon7806]

I have seen some where that 80% of us are over the limit

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

Yes, I have come across that before.

[@johncunningham4820]

You are Barking up the Wrong Tree here . 1 : The Manufactures Gross is the Max Weight the Trailer is constructed to SAFELY carry . Same for the Vehicles Gross Mass Limit . The FRAME strength . 2 : The actual AXLE capacities must not be exceeded under ANY circumstances . The Axle capacities usually Well exceed the quoted Gross Vehicle masses . 3 : Ball weight is VERY important here . 100 kg more on the Towbar = 20 - 30 kg LESS weight on the Steer axle . Where the BEST brakes are . An excellent , SAFE guide is NOT to tow anything that exceeds the tow vehicles TARE weight . PS . The DOT guys ARE pretty clued up on Safety .

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

@@johncunningham4820 I’m not quite with you, but I’ve got man flu so not thinking clearly. I think I’ll address this in an update if I am reading it right. I didn’t say you should go over the MTPLM of the caravan, but I also didn’t make it clear as I thought it would be a given. You could buy a different caravan that exceeded the Total permissible braked trailer weight of the tow vehicle, with a higher MTPLM, which is what I always thought you couldn’t do.

[@johncunningham4820]

@@atlanticcaravansUK . I did wonder what MTPLM actually stood for .. Not a term in use here , though I am certain there's an equivalent . BTW , for some context , I am a Retired Semi-Trailer Driver . Australia . You , I think , would call that an HGV Operator ?

[@ashleyjohnson1908]

the "towing safely" is difficult to gauge, for me, as long as it's correctly weight distributed on the thing being towed, then surely it's "safe", it seems just the caravans fraternity that have this idea that the car must be heavier than the thing being towed, and people get caught up on that, lets face it, my book for my truck says I can tow 3.5t (triple axle), and look around at most workers vans towing heavy loads, if that was a caravan, all the beards would be screaming out it's unsafe.

[@Lilrom2003]

What if a caravan you buy has been up-specced to 1700 MTPLM to carry motorcycle but your car can only tow 1500, can you tow it as long as you do not exceed 1500 kg assuming you have your car fully loaded?

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

Well, as long as you don’t exceed the gross train weight stamped on the vehicles vin you are okay legally, but I wouldn’t advise it. And you would have to know what the actual weights of the car and the caravan were.

[@breeze1472]

fair play to you,not many would admit they were wrong

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

It took a bit to admit to be honest!

[@explodman]

They weigh your individual axles and gross weights , so you may be under the gross train weight but over on the axle weight. You can therefore be guilty of more than one offence in one stop . Overweight on axles and gross train weight. Two bites of the cherry as they say.

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

Blimey, didn’t know that.. I think if you got to that point you probably need to be told off in any case as it would be so far from being safe to tow, you couldn’t accidentally do it.

[@dave40612]

Interesting minefield to navigate. Realistically who gets their combination weighed? Roadside checks are normally done with mobile weight plates. If "selected", ensure you get a print of the results. The 85% guideline is a great belt & braces rule particularly when you're new to caravan towing. It'll be interesting seeing what folk pull with EV's given their greater weight. Some cannot tow due to their braking setup. Great video subject 👍

[@raymondporter2094]

Don't let the tail wag the dog ...

[@derekwatson5429]

Borrowing from the car thats not fully loaded, (lighter), to tow a heavier caravan doesn't make sense. eg tail WILL wag the dog! Can't be safe, and one thing I would never do because of physics, and not a maths calculation

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

Yes, that’s exactly why I thought it was not right. Turns out it is..

[@FredFox-m9v]

I can tow a 2000 kg caravan according to the rules.

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

Technically that depends on what your vehicle weighs at the time, there is no fixed figure, as long as you stay at or below the vehicle gross train weight, the figure can change.

[@FredFox-m9v]

@atlanticcaravansUK it's a 3.5 Tonne limit lwb van.

[@davidnicholson1883]

It may be correct legal content, but your giving out information that if followed could mean driver's are towing unsafe. Ever heard of " Keep things simple "

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

If you listen to the video I don’t advise going anywhere near these figures, I’m just stating what the law is, and to my mind how daft it is.

[@jamesdavison9483]

😵‍💫

[@nigelmitchell4855]

Stop worrying please....

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

Can’t help it..

[@gjonf]

Lovely guy but suggest you write a script first of points you wish to make as you waffled so long and repeated several times that I'm more confused than reassured. Sorry.

[@johnaunger9739]

That was like watching paint dry sorry

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

@@johnaunger9739 what, even the bit about time not being a constant.. that’s not boring!

[@ThatMicro43Guy]

Then don’t watch! No one is forcing you to. At least he is producing videos, you have produced exactly….none on your channel. He’s had the humility to go on a public forum and admit he made a mistake then explained how and why. That’s a pretty big move which (I at least) think deserves some respect. Some people may have learned a lot from it. Some people may really like his style. He sells caravans, he’s not a professional TV producer.

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

@@ThatMicro43Guy thanks for this, but I do encourage everyone to watch, I’ve got loads more videos he can have a look at and comment on, the next one is going to be a revision on this one and could potentially be more boring, but the content is still important.

[@paullong22]

​@atlanticcaravansUK please try to get to the point quickly in the next video and leave all the waffle and confessions to afterwards. It was excruciating watching this one wondering when you would talk about what you kept saying you will talk about.

[@paullong22]

Oh please get to the point and stop repeating yourself. Even your confession could have been 5% of what you've said. I've given up at 7 minutes shouting at the screen to get on with it. Can't be bothered going through another 16 minutes of this for what is probably 2 minutes of info. Worse than the Trudigans!

[@atlanticcaravansUK]

Point taken, bit ironic that you commented twice though and said the same thing on both posts..