Revolutionizing 3D Printing: Prusa's Game-Changing Nextruder

The NEXTRUDER from Prusa incorporates a few things I have always wanted to try. These characteristics might pave the way to better extrusion consistency.
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MirageC

[@NvidiaRTX5080]

Really well made video tearing down the engineering. That's something most channels don't go as far in depth into, you have my respect

[@XatxiFly]

This was a really interesting and well-presented breakdown, thank you!

[@hokkypro]

What happend, did you stop making videos?

[@kiwikemist]

He died

[@hokkypro]

Ripperino ​@@kiwikemist

[@andycrighto3740]

Did he really die????

[@techhead-bedhead]

i think he got so much hate for he " see part two for the reason short " that he quit youtube 🤣

[@MrFunny01]

@@andycrighto3740no, his last shot video was posted on march 2024

[@buzzbbird]

Are you still active??? I have been waiting for your extruder olympics to give some results to build a 'best' machine.

[@MrKuncol]

There is also one additional bonus of having geared extruder, In case of very small extrusion rate due to small nozzle and layer height there can be artifacts caused by limited precision of steps in stepper motor. 1:10 gear ratio increase that precision 10 times, and yes I had some prints with 0,25mm nozzle on which stepper artifacts were visible.

[@pizzablender]

But the gear is bigger, so the extrusion amount per step is not that much smaller.

[@satibel]

​@@pizzablender the gear is about 3.2 times bigger, so that's equivalent to 3.1 times reduction, which is approximately what the dual gear extruders usually use

[@MihaiDesigns]

Great point! Intrigued to see some real-world tests.

[@Vez3D]

Nicecely done Olivier. Yes their extruder is well made indeed :) But still one issue remains i think... the straight teeth biting at constant distance in 90 degree causing the other source of artifacts we were seeing. I mitigated that issue with twirl so I wonder what coule be done here. Couple ideas are germinating in my head :)

[@MirageC]

Yup, totally agree and I have a plan ;)

[@Lucas_sGarage]

How about a double helical gear shape of extruder gear?

[@kilianlindlbauer8277]

​@@Lucas_sGarage interesting idea, although difficult to manufacture at such a small scale. You would need either a 4 axis cnc/3 axis with rotary module or would need a tool to imprint the pattern, similar to knurling. We could also try something with lgx gears with smooth idler bearings for now since you can buy single lgx gears and those have roughly the same diameter as the one in the nextruder. Also since they are running on needle bearings and no single grub screw is involved we could expect good excentricity.

[@velvia7880]

@@kilianlindlbauer8277 Yeah, knurling or fishbone / zipper pattern maybe?

[@kilianlindlbauer8277]

@@velvia7880 was thinking of the heringbone pattern. Having just helical gears would push the filament to one side. You can see that with soft tpu on the vz hextruder. If you pull medium to soft tpu it twirls the filament. Ive tested that with 85a xtrudr tpu

[@NickElls-nj3wz]

The 3D printing world is lost without the Chosen one. Where are mere mortals to turn for direction? All hope is lost! Please, give us a sign!

[@ocho7011]

Miss you and your quality content!

[@davidrandall4001]

Definitely looks like it could be a game changer. I am also interested to learn how this will work/perform with TPU. Really liked the dig into the mechanicals and the pros/cons of the currently used groved extruders. A most excellent video, thank you.

[@RichardBetel]

This is a very good point, but I'm still interested in what'll be done with the strain-gage in the extruder for bed leveling, blockage detection, filament run out detection, and whatever else we manage to think of. All in all, I expect the Mk4 will be an important development for 3D printers...

[@teresashinkansen9402]

It is after all a creation by Josef Prusa the greatest mind in the universe.

[@tankkiler308]

As soon as i saw the details of the nextruder i knew this video was coming. Well done and thxs for all the r&d you do for the community

[@iphantommenace704]

My man just disappeared after this video

[@mortenkallesen923]

I was just watching your video on the Bondtech extruder with the layer issues and multi gear inaccuracies, and I thought "this is what the Nextruder is trying to eliminate". And here it is 😃

[@allcrafter3747]

Although the bigger extruder gear and overall better design will definitely help with extrusion quality the best thing, I think is the strain gage. You could measure the force compere it with the requested force and therefore adjust the motor movement a bit to make it more consistent in extrusion.

[@koenvanduffel2084]

I agree with your reasoning. This could well be the breakthrough that extruders have been waiting for. Problems that were every time partially solved might well be solved all combined with this one. Thanks for the thorough analysis!

[@amoose136]

There's certainly a lot that is theoretically nice about the MK4, extruder included. I think it's still too early to really know if it lives up to the promise, especially considering Prusa hasn't released the input shaping firmware yet that will really let us push the print speeds and stress test the flow rates.

[@VladOnEarth]

For that price ita a joke what they offer in 2023. Get a bamboo lab, at least it isnt from 19 century and not made on a lap using 3d printer farm. 😄

[@maxwell_edison]

@@VladOnEarth I'd agree on this. It is a clear improvement but it's an improvement upon a very dated design at this point - And they're charging as if the full thing is modernized. But it's not, it's clearly still an old school Prusa printer, just with fancy new features. Bamboo is definitely going to push competition so hard. Prusa's package is simply not impressive enough VS Bamboo.

[@fofopads4450]

Bambus are non repairable garbage made by scammy americans who exploit cheap labor abroad and become parasitic patent trolls of the open source projects they leeched their filmsy tech from.

[@AndrewAHayes]

@@VladOnEarth I have a MK3s and had until recently a deposit on an XL, I redeemed that deposit as I was sick and tired of all the delays, I did intend to buy an X1 Carbon and AMS but then got cold feet as I have concerns about wear on the carbon rods, if they wear to the extent that print quality is affected it would mean sending the machine back to China at my expense, I dont think this would be financially viable, why they have not set up international service centres is beyond me, no manufacturer can be 100% confident in its QA.

[@VladOnEarth]

@ᗩᑎᗪᖇEᗯ ᕼᗩYEᔕ they are a new company, give them some time. I would not worry about carbon rods wear, I had them on my flashforge for years, with igus bushings, almost no wear. And even if they wear, they are a common market size rods i believe, you can relatively easy just replace them. The biggest issue with those rods is to get a good tolerance. Pultruded are better in this regard.

[@ThePhilbox]

Miss you bro! Hope to see your evaluation of this extruder one day.

[@Javii96]

Do you know why he stopped making videos? Is he okay? I just found his channel and its great

[@ThePhilbox]

@@Javii96 he didn't stop just way behind schedule. He had a Hevort update recently. I imagine he's an engineer making plenty of money and stuff in the real world and that has taken priority over his ambitious and finicky tresarch projects on youtube...just my imagination though

[@HelgeKeck]

i have a MK4 since day one and love the machine. prnit quality is extremly good. And besides what other people say, this printer is not slow at all with activated input shaper. THis printer earned a place in my 3d printing toolchain

[@giedrius2149]

What accels are you running

[@HelgeKeck]

@@giedrius2149 ~7k, also for outer perimeters

[@giedrius2149]

@@HelgeKeck I mean for a bed slinger it's alright

[@MrBlackmidi1234567890987654321]

The MK4 is still part of their i3 family tho ​@giedrius2149

[@l3d-3dmaker58]

the only thing I have to complain or give feedback on the nextruder is: they should have made diagonal teeth on the drive gear, as the "imprint" it leaves on the filament will cause a repeating pattern of too much and too little plastic, while diagonal teeth would keep the deformation constant, it's a mostly easy fix (depending on manufacturing methods) and would eliminate the remaining variations to have a truly consistent extrusion

[@vazgeraldes]

Thanks for the insight... I have to start designing a new extruder now that I had a stable design... Excellent analysis and video as per usual.

[@dsnineteen]

I can imagine this turning into a version of the debate seen on car enthusiast forums- running a single large turbocharger vs two smaller ones - only with extruder gears!

[@MirageC]

See you at the track! 🤣

[@aware2action]

What we also need is, consistent filament diameter, and volume. With the new large gear, see the possibility of a ribbon like filament.Not only the filament will be cheaper, it could also be more consistent in volume, made possible by the aspect ratio. It could pack more filament on reel, also could enable even more volume of extrusion. It might also be necessary to have a rectangular funnel shaped intake path on heated chamber. Just some thoughts .....

[@B3MDUSA]

There has to be some reason that the round profile was developed back in the 80s or whenever it was. But I am sure curious what that is, because a filament shaped like fettuccine would certainly be easier to work with than filament shaped like spaghetti.

[@aware2action]

​@@B3MDUSA I feel, it may be due to easier extrusion(all you need is a round hole, easy to achieve with common drill type machine tools) and easier winding(you can cross wind a round filament easily,compared to a wide ribbon, which could be limiting). But to get more precision and accuracy, it might be a worth while deviation(esp, with reduced surface grip of the 1.75mm filament). Additionally, with faster and bigger heater, it may be easier to push more volume of material for faster printing, due to increased grip of the ribbon style filament. Again, some more thoughts .....

[@ArthurAbram]

Hi, have you considered having a look at belt driven extruder? I dont remember where i saw this but the way it function is that the motor drives belts on either side of the filament so the contact area can be increased according to the length of the belt.

[@kimnielsen9320]

The channel Proper Printing have developed a belt extruder that works really good

[@kitmarshall4084]

Very good explanation… I always knew the print quality on the mk2s was better but couldn’t explain it.

[@purpleriboflavin]

Having seen your videos in the past the first thing I thought seeing the nextruder reveal was your video series.

[@claws61821]

Thank you very much for breaking these components down for us and giving your analysis. I wish you had pointed out that the only thing that's truly new here to even commercially manufactured extruders is the dual idler bearings, but that's me nitpicking.

[@claws61821]

Thinking about it, while it was never commercial, there was an extruder several years ago that a school in South America designed and uploaded to Thingiverse that used most of an entire ring of drive gears or idler bearings around a central wheel, much like a peristaltic pump. That's not too dissimilar to the dual idler design aside from the quantity.

[@MirageC]

Cycloidal? or perhaps Harmonic drive?

[@claws61821]

@@MirageC Neither as far as I recall but I would have to find it again to be sure.

[@scififan698]

I do see a problem with older filament which has become brittle.. the bend might result in the filament breaking in the midst of roller bearings, clogging up the mechanism. I had that happen when I designed a rather similar (without planetary gears) drive for more contact.. it worked great, but was very sensitive to the usage of fresh versus older filament. Since I don't print a lot, my filament usually has some degree of staleness which mad it quite unusable.

[@DragonFinlay]

I already tested edge cases like super old PLA as well as old TPU on the MK4 and it just prints like a god. Didn't even adjust the idler tension or anything, it just worked. My hypothesis is that due to the idler bearings having a slot in the middle, even if the filament breaks, the path is so constrained that the top piece would just continue to nicely push down on the bottom piece and you won't notice the break at all.

[@liamventer]

My biggest concern would be for filaments like ePAHT-CF. That stuff is very stiff and brittle and using two plain bearings to bend it aroundone large drive gear might just snap it...or the force to make it compliant around the bearings and gear may just overload the extruder motor. So far I haven't seen anyone print htis filament with the Nextruder...but this is a corner case filament and all other filaments should be fine.

[@ChrisHarmon1]

Through the years I have always felt my Kossel mini with gear reduced stepper motor and simple gear and bearing compression system had just as good of results or better then I've gotten since. I still compare my best prints to prints off that machine from 2014.

[@MirageC]

Yup, this "revolution" is against the ways of doing things that nobody questionned for years. We thought more nozzle pressure would be good for faster printing, we thought hobb grooves would give us that extra traction to achieve this pressure... Now we know it"s not... And I honnestly think this is the start of a revolution about how we took things for granted.

[@claws61821]

​@@MirageC Increased pressure was never about greater speed. It was about forestalling the issues that result from back pressure when you push material of x volume through a bore of smaller y volume. As long as you have enough forward pressure to significantly overcome the back pressure, your material will exit the bore with a minimum of issues introduced. Yes, for the purpose of FDM plastic printing we've reached a point where some extruders provide enough pressure to push the material through many common models of heat zone too quickly so that it comes out while it's still "too cold" for our purpose, but it does still come out.

[@MirageC]

@@claws61821 According to my tests, the pressure creep point of a material corresponds to the point where the print quality drops quickly to not being able to print at all. This is not even taking into account the issues you are creating on Pressure Advance requirement. Filament will come out, but it will not be printable. High nozzle pressure is bad The proper recipe for flow resides in the hotend, not the extruder. We can print at 50+ cubic mm/s volumes at very high speed now a days with a simple BMG gear set. Oh.... And I forgot to mention, I am running without the second drive gear ;) Have a look at VzBoT videos.

[@claws61821]

@@MirageC I may have to watch your videos on dual gear extruders again, yes. Did you test the pressure effect in multiple hot ends/nozzles as well, or was that Stefan?

[@Mymirck]

Very interesting to have this analysis ! Can't wait for the result !

[@MrHeHim]

I recently went with the HGX Lite. It has dual 18mm helical concaved extruder gears. This video made me aware of the concaved issue and the difference is the HGX lite runs the extruder gears on needle bearings allowing the gears to slide on the shaft and always be centered. Prints are now amazing at any speed, VFA's are effectively gone. But even more noticeable is the extrusion consistency, for example i can run bridges at 250mm/s now that look and perform far better than before. The HGX lite is NOT perfect, and you have to be careful not to assemble it in a way that causes binging. Furthermore, i cleaned it out with WD-40 and compressed air, then assembled it to ensure no binding, ran it dry with no load to break it in, cleaned it out again!, then on final assembly added Super Lube (synthetic 30 weight with PTFE). I'm on about 500 hours of print time, with about half that enclosed at 50c. *printer runs at 200-325mm/s (0.4mm volcano nozzle) 5K acceleration

[@riba2233]

interesting, I got the v2 and I thought that the gears sliding on the shaft are not ideal but it looks like it's the intended design :)

[@BigDaddyI1I]

Best graphics in the community. Thanks for your excellent work.

[@alainthire]

Maybe that is why Ultimaker, until today, uses this kind of system.

[@cthulpiss]

it is precise enough that we can return to the conception of remore motors, and extruder gears driven by flexible shaft ? I miss those

[@GoatZilla]

I think I'm more concerned with the gap between the drive gear and the entry into the filament guide than the drive gear fringe specifics.

[@MirageC]

Yes, that I would do differently.

[@szymonjastrzebski2909]

To be fair, I still think that lack of tolerances is the huge issue in terms of BMG. Genuine shaft was 4.96mm, while for this bearing arrangement it should be 5mm ±4um, so we're causing wear on the bearings. The ID of the gear isn't reamed either from basic visual inspection, so they probably don't have great tolerances here either. In my opinion just proper shaft OD and gear ID (with respective tolerances) should be significantly better than what we have now on the market

[@mathewbrunza2813]

Bro this channel could of been a great channel, especially the hotend Olympics but all stopped... Why?

[@excitedbox5705]

wouldn't the grooves pushed into the filament create a much larger distortion in filament volume? You would be pushing filament volume equal to the displacement of the grooves up/down and partially to the sides. Assuming most of the plastic is pushed up and down due to where the force is applied, You would get 2x he differences in volume displacement from min to max groove depth. (ie. min = filament - groove volume, while max = filament + groove volume) If the groove displaces 1% of the filament from either side in regular printers, you would get a 4% delta between grooved filament and no groove. In this case, it may be slightly less since it only produces 1 groove, but they will be deeper/wider at their full depth due to the straight cuts. I have speculated for a long time, that ideally you would want a multi roller textured silicone feed system, to increase grip while preventing any change in filament shape. It may even be possible to use 2 "belts" pushing against the filament to feed it into the hotend. Another improvement could be to increase the length and thermal mass of the extruder barrel. This would allow a more gradual heating with a reduction in temperature fluctuation. Uneven heating of the plastic can cause thermal stresses and uneven thermal expansion/shrinking. This could lead to warping.

[@Coldhardt007]

A comparsion between the Nextruder and the Sovol all-metal planetary gear extruder from the SV06 Plus would be really interesting!

[@Chris7uk00]

Doesn't that use a setup like the orbiter 2.0 with a large bmg gear, the bmg gears are causing issues with surface artifacts #602 thread.

[@JoshMurrah]

This really does look interesting! Also… whatever happened to the hotend Olympics?? I never saw a results video.

[@MirageC]

I had to change the approach of crunching the data before killing myself. At the moment where the plan took form, Winter made conditions in the shop too cold for proper testing. I am working on setting up the printer and print head for a restart within the next couple of weeks.

[@DragonFinlay]

Nice video! Though you missed one thing - the two idler bearings are not flat, they have a groove in the middle to keep the filament centered. Which means that manufacturing inconsistencies along the width of the gear are even less relevant since the filament cannot move left or right at all.

[@MirageC]

Great piece of info! that is how I am planning mine too. Thanks for pointing that out.

[@unharmonix]

@@MirageC U604ZZ bearings, as used on the MK8 extruder. Off the shelf bearings. I'm designing a variant for my worm extruder that uses two of these.

[@SouthAsh_1]

Very interesting indeed but my biggest worries for the extruder is the curve in the filament it may limit types of tpu filaments. Most importantly brittle filaments like carbon fiber filaments as those don't like to be bent at too much of an angle before breaking. Can't wait for it to come out so we can see your testing!

[@khaderach19]

The Graphics are just for show. Thats why there's an adjustment knob on the tension arm

[@jrcaeosyroetnsella]

Consider also some materials will hold a bend imparted to them. Now what about sections of prints with repeated retractions. Wonder if this affects those areasa

[@polycrystallinecandy]

​@@jrcaeosyroetnsella isn't the bend irrelevant after melting

[@fofopads4450]

Not a concern. It has been tested for over a year already. TPU works flawlessly.

[@Jeffmorgan1991]

@@polycrystallinecandy He is saying when retracted. So there is a bend being held while it gets pulled up. I don't see it as a big potential problem as retraction is 1-2mm, but an interesting question.

[@CraftingContraptions]

Nothing but problems with my last Prusa, never buying another one of their products again

[@dodasch5685]

really good video, full of nice information and well illustrated examples

[@dreamvisionary]

Nice breakdown on the theory, but it would be interesting to see what, if any, difference this makes in real world printing.

[@SianaGearz]

Yeah when i saw that i was like "wow that's so right and obvious in hindsight, why haven't we been building extruders like that all along?"

[@dekutree64]

Because all those big gears are heavy and expensive.

[@SianaGearz]

@@dekutree64 A lot of extruder designs aren't cheap or light. And there's a lot that can be done to optimise weight.

[@leofortey7561]

The next logical step is a live filament diameter check, which would re-calculate feed rates as needed. This is a good method in removing a few variables from filament extrusion. What is maximum feed rate this this extruder? Is the stepper spinning 10x than before? I print a lot with 0.8 and 1.2mm nozzles and have maxed out various extruders, limiting my production. I hope this isn't going to make the stepper spin too fast and create a skip.

[@kittrelleberwine]

I would love to see a break down of the LGX Lite. Great video as always, thank you for the great info!

[@thorgraum1462]

Very High quality content Brother!

[@MirageC]

Thank you!

[@johnnymac1976]

Very good analysis! To modify the current system could you use two plain ball bearings with a V-grove between them as the idler? Or a wider bearing with a V-Groove machined in the middle? This could keep the filament centered better and distribute the pressure over a wider range. Thoughts?

[@u9Nails]

I would imagine that Prusa tested a large range of designs over the years after the MK3. They tend to aim for the Goldilocks zone where things are just right between performance, quality, and use. It's very interesting to see these advantage and how they might have selected this design. Thank you!

[@Leviathan3DPrinting]

That massive gap underneath the gear looks like a great place to store my flexibles lol.

[@gnramires]

I wonder if the grooves indentation on the plastic also contribute to some inconsistency of extrusion. In that case the larger diameter with more smaller grooves is better. But perhaps there could be other ways to improve traction, like multiple stages of gears (with very small indentation)

[@BadnoobofVoron]

Beautiful video!. I do have a few questions. In your comparison of hobbed vs straight vs large straight, are you ignoring that in dual drive systems there are 2 gears in contact? that would mean 2 * 0.749 = 1.48 ^2 vs the single large gear of 0.964 mm^2 Why not compare to Bondtechs LGX series? with its 18mm diameter and dual drive this should be even greater. Finally the hypothesis of the filament walking is certainly possible, but I think the curved surfaces will self-center the filament. and have a proper filament guide will also help there. did you have evidence of the filament walking?

[@MirageC]

The dual gear systems is what we are trying to move away from, so I did not see the point of comparing the contact patch. As for the evidence of filament walk here is what I did: 1 - Removing the second hob gear teeth by grinding. No impact on surface quality kzbin.info/www/bejne/mWetnnaapNt4Zrc 2 - Removing the second hob gear and replacing it with plain bearing made a significant increase in quality. kzbin.info/www/bejne/mWetnnaapNt4Zrc

[@BadnoobofVoron]

@@MirageC sorry I'm not following...how is that evidence of filament walk in a dual drive system? If anything I think you showed that filament can walt with flat gears. But I'll watch to see what I'm missing.

[@MirageC]

@@BadnoobofVoron quality was much better without second drive gear.

[@liamventer]

@@MirageC I replaced the hob gear on an orbiter with a plain bearing. I saw no difference in print quality. I know one other person who did this and also saw no improvement on print quality with the Orbiter 2. YMMD.

[@mggevaer260]

This feels like a really DIY friendly design, improved extrusion with less manufacturing tolerances. Any plans on including this on a new extruder? It seems plausible that a precise drive wheel can be sourced from some existing other industry. Or should I get a Patreon subscription to find out about that? ;p

[@SippoCoffee]

I would love to see a comparison to the galileo2 extruder (also single gear and planetary)

[@miklschmidt]

Great analysis, as always 👍When can i get it on my non Prusa printer? 😅

[@androiduberalles]

Give china a few more weeks

[@miklschmidt]

@@androiduberalles I would rather pay Prusa for the mechanical parts, but they usually don't want to sell them.

[@androiduberalles]

@@miklschmidt thus leaving you no choice, lol

[@fofopads4450]

They will eventually have to sell them

[@brandonhicks7549]

It’s very interesting, but weight seems like an afterthought. Large metal gears seem like the antithesis of what you made with the hextruder.

[@MirageC]

Oh yeah, of course, this solution as it is now is WAY too heavy for what we are trying to do, but the idea behind it is awesome I think.

[@lucasfeliciano8766]

Hi man, I really appreciate your videos, I've a sprite extruder, which has the same issue in a way, so I'm planning to make an alternative arm (the one with the second driven gear), so I'm making an arm with 2 bearings to test this concept, I'll try to bring it as an alternative for the sprite extruder. Not that you're interested, but I'll keep you posted :)

[@MyTechFun]

Nice work. I still perform dual gear system. It would be good to have bigger pulleys but both driven. But this is just my opinion, it would be good to measure it somehow..

[@MirageC]

Strong extruders are only required to get out of clogging situations ;) High nozzle pressure is not good under any circumstances.

[@FuzzyOne2007]

Would a helical gear not be better pulling the filament as opposed to the straight cut pushing?, would that not create a more consistent pressure in the nozzle?

[@highspeedpiTV]

Amazing! Keep it up MirageC!!

[@corrupted1850]

I have learned why crealitys next-Gen printers dont extrude the most consistent and besides there Top of the line machines are really hard to get that perfect first layer the extruder gears that make contact dont have a curved grove its straight cut but is still the same size gear which causes either Way too loose grip or Air Bubbles in your hotened garunteed from my 500hrs of testing with different tensions on my Ender 5 S1

[@oleurgast730]

Yes, the nextruder seems a big step forward. The bigger gear alone definitly is an improvement, as I saw on my zorbiter (just a little bigger) and my TBG light. The new concept with two flat idler bearings might improve even a bit more - but I wonder how much, as with the heatbreak integrated in the nozzle reaching up extremly near to the gears, there is very smal room for filament moving sideways anyways. Also the new nozzle system seems a good improvement. While you can get simular concepts from china (Trianglelabs CHC), the concept of changing nozzle including heater with just disconnecting two easy to reach connectors and looseing two thumbscrews is quite interesting. Esp. as you not only can use integrated nozzles but also a nozzle adaptor (heatbreak) to use special nozzles in v6 size. I hope there might be a version with longer meltzone for more volume flow (for prints with >0.8mm nozzle) And of course, the load cell always kills the need for z calibration. I hope I get my mk4 upgrade soon.

[@rico3696]

Does anyone know if the stratasis DC motor extruder is patented? It's also quite simple and works very well

[@rexxx927]

not that i know it's parts a millwright or like can source with the correct know how, that exact part number is maybe made for ssys but is able to be crossed but the gears maybe added after by ssys this i dont know but i doubt it, the problem its the size and weight they are heavy very heavy IMO they are not worth the time and go for 250$used and are a ssys wanted used part on the other hand there liquifier has more potential then the extruder does again IMO

[@darkracer1252]

yeah never thought of the dual hub thing being an issue. but it deffinatly would explain the almost z-wobble type behavior even though i have a belted z.

[@Machiflores]

I dont understand how you compare the contact because you can have double contact surface in dual extrusion gears. Maybe the issue is similar to 4x4 wheel drives?

[@MirageC]

The idea is to remove the second drive gear. I think that dual gear system have too many sources of issues, gear meshing, alternating force transmission paths, tilted shaft causing filament walk... If you remove that second gear, you need to compensate the loss of patch contact by making the wheel bigger or having more wrapping effect by using 2 or more idlers.

[@laszloszell8753]

Hy man! how is going with you? everything ok?

[@bluemamba5317]

RIP

[@NemecJiri]

How about comparing other big wheel solutions like Orbiter and LGX? A friend from the Voron community did some experiments and subjectively the nicest prints were from Orbiter 2.0 right after LGX Lite and RIDGA, the worst were the original BMG wheels and it didn't matter what extruder he put them in. The strange thing is that LGX Lite turned out worse than Orbiter even though it has bigger wheels.

[@fofopads4450]

LGX is like a combination of MK3 extrusion mechanics, using 2 gears of the size of the MK4 main gear. I really the control lever in LGX

[@NavyCuda]

Fantastic! Subbed!

[@waynenewberry1032]

Straight gear and planetary box- sounds like my Makergear from 8 years ago!

[@MirageC]

I know! Like the last couple of years have promoted speed improvment without fully grasping effect on quality. It's now time that we rebalance things out :)

[@jettoblack]

Excellent, and well done. I only wish that the Nextruder wasn't tied to platforms which won't be able to fully exploit it -- the MK4 is held back by the old i3 kinematics, the XL is just pure unobtainium. As much as I would rather support Prusa for their innovation, it looks like we'll have to wait and see what someone else can do with a cloned Nextruder on a better platform.

[@dennisdecoene]

I'm sold.

[@df0s]

They didn't explain how they're going to retract the filament. To retract at 80mm/s, the stepper motor will have to spin 10 times faster than if it was a direct drive. That would be 800mm/s... At those speeds, it loses all the torque

[@riba2233]

nope, it is still within the usable range.

[@michaelschaub]

While the large surface on the filament and the efficient planetary gear are great choices, they come with one downside: They are big, resulting in a long filament path to the nozzle. Depending on the flexibility of the filament, we might see some improvements with this type of gear, while we see downsides due to filament compression on the path to the nozzle. The resulting question is: Do we really need large gears? Do we really need maximum tracktion? Would a small gear on one side and a bearing on the other side not do the trick? My assumption: Unless we work with extreme pressure in the Nozzle (speedprinting), all of that might just be unnecessary. An updated Hextrudort with a straight gear and bearing might just provide the best of both worlds.

[@donkeymarco]

With two bearing and a long contact surface on the gear You can have similar traction to 'traditional' system, but with a lower compression force needed between bearings and the large gear. To note that since the compression points are two instead of only one, so the contact area between the gear and filament is lorger and than less prone to slip.

[@michaelschaub]

@@donkeymarco I am aware of that. The question is, whether this is actually necessary.

[@cheftipp]

Which aftermarket extruder do you prefer in terms of quality, if speed and pushing force isn't part of the equation? I get the best quality out of my titan style extruder. Compared it to different kind of bmg dual gear. Also the sv06 extruder.

[@daliasprints9798]

Without modding it so the idlers are cupped to replace the cup of the hobbed drive gear, I think this is a non starter for flexible filaments. I don't see how it could constrain the filament not to just shoot out the side.

[@AshBashVids]

the idliers have a groove in the centre

[@MSM5500]

A question is how heavy this thing is going to be as there're quite massive metal gears there?

[@stephenmedwick-if5iz]

soooo.. off topic from everyone else, but where did you find the octopus hot end fan ducts STLs that are in your video?

[@RixtronixLAB]

Nice info, thank you for sharing it, keep it up :)

[@gsdtdeaux7]

Proper printing’s timing belt extruder is revolutionary

[@Brocknoviatch]

I can’t wait for you to review one either. I tried to double subscribe but KZbin wouldn’t let me!

[@gangleweed]

The sole purpose of the drive rollers is to ram the filament into the heated chamber where it melts and as the filament then acts as a hydraulic ram it is the pressure that the melted filament gets from the incoming filament that determines the flow.

[@randomname4726]

Yes, and?

[@JP-qp7pe]

My mk4 just stopped due to z axis calibration and is a nightmare to fix

[@crashfactory]

Interesting analysis!

[@olafschermann1592]

Great analysis

[@MustyBucket]

Hi, I love your videos, but is there a chance for you to work on some different features? It has been either extruder or z-wobble lately, what about automatic print removal? Or starting toolchanger?

[@MirageC]

Toolchanger is a very complex system, we have yet to control the basic stuff... I am a perfectionist, I will move to the next steps when I feel we are ready for them. Thousands of hours in research, fabrication, discussions, tests and video editing are involved into what I do. If this was a full time job, maybe I could get to it faster, but for now, this is still a hobby. Hotend flow testing has restarted, so this will be my next focus.

[@MustyBucket]

Ok, understandable

[@rexxx927]

excellent show thanks

[@manuelpeirofrias293]

Can be purchased for a non Prusa printer?

[@kurtnelle]

I like Prusa's solution. Larger gear driven by a planetary gearbox. makes sense.

[@gangleweed]

The more complicated you can make the device the more you can blind the criticism.

[@fofopads4450]

the simpler is not always the best, see creality Ender extruder, single spur, single idler, everyone changes it after a month. You say that bs while people constantly upgrade their machines with extruders from bondtech and E3D which are pieces of complex clockwork that speak for their print quality. Just because you never used the MK4 doesnt mean is an obcure and difficult mechanism.

[@MakrelBy]

​@@fofopads4450 "see creality Ender extruder everyone changes it after a month." I'm Ender 3 user... and have been printing petg/abs on the default extruder for over a year now. So you're wrong 😅🤣- no "everyone change it". The quality I get is good enough for "personal use". But to be fair, after six months of use I had to replace the thermal barrier with an all-metal barrier - the old one did not print well.

[@Ataraxia_Atom]

With all the potential issues in the extruder I really like prusas solution

[@chrischris6399]

tri has the similar large gear extruder maybe search for tbg-lite

[@jbrownson]

Interesting analysis, thanks

[@fabianluethi03]

could i put a mk4 extruder on a sv06? sould work

[@occasionalriders1885]

Have you ever tryed the omg v2 extruder?

[@EwieEnde]

That doesn't make sense at Min 1:25. The principle does. But the application is stupid. Because I would also have to compensate for the time, filament offset. So I reduce the speed when there is still 1.75mm at the nozzle and accelerate again when there is 1.90mm.

[@Ballador]

what about flexibles? at a glance it looks like filament tangling hell

[@MrBlackmidi1234567890987654321]

It will be fine, looked at the extruder parts on printables

[@martingerhardsoos]

Prusa should give you credit for coming up with their ideas..you had been the origin.

[@MrBlackmidi1234567890987654321]

The nextruder has been in development before mirage c's findings

[@rossinvestigates4039]

Where can I buy the nextruder?

[@iluvatarbzh5584]

It's impressiv how this video attracts bambifans who just talk shit about prusa. we are far from the usual atmosphere in the comments. They don't get the point of your video, it make you wonder if they really have looked a it

[@MirageC]

Welcome to the internet ;) Unfortunately it is part of the game.

[@AshBashVids]

bambots really are an annoying bunch