Rewire an Electrical Switch box with No Neutral

Click this link to show how I added the extra wire into the wall: • Running Wires in Walls
In this video, I rewire an electrical switch box that doesn't have a neutral wire present. The rewired configuration gains a neutral wire that enables you to use the new switch to control lighting.
Work with electric at your own risk! If any of this seems foreign or uncomfortable to you, hire an electrician. Do not take the risk. My video's are for entertainment purposes only and are not meant to be "how to's" if you are unfamiliar with the topics.
Purchase items I used in this video:
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Klein Wire Cutters: amzn.to/2p4mKEx
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[@fixitwithzim]

ALL: I've posted another video on my channel showing how I installed the extra wire in the wall that others have asked about below. Check it out here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fn6oZpSjp756a6M

[@waltermackin5284]

Excellent! Clear, concise, no half hour story of your life.

[@WiseInetellect]

Beautiful video all the way through. I greatly appreciate the time you took to make this. I don't know how many days of my life you've given back to me by making this video

[@zgsq127]

Finally, a video that explained what I was doing wrong and how to fix it. I was trying to install a light fixture off of an existing switch, similar to your video, however, I had no idea that the switch had no neutral wire. After viewing your video, I went back into my garage and looked at the light that the switch currently feeds. Sure enough, it was an electrical outlet and the current light was nothing more than a light fixture plugged into the outlet. With this new knowledge and with some of the comments below, I'll take this information and try again. Thank you for the well done video.

[@fixitwithzim]

Gabriel Sorry for the delayed response but thanks for the comment. Hope the job went well!

[@allens4866]

Very well explained and visually documented. I have been looking for this exact information to allow me to install smart light switches that require a neutral. I have looked at many videos and other websites for this information and nothing was as clear as this. Thank you

[@sandyma6974]

Hi Allen, I am try to install a smart switch that requires a neutral as well. My current switch only have one black and white attached. So I want to know if you have any success installing the smart switch? Thanks.

[@thomaskwan1572]

This is one of the best educational videos on how to find a neutral wire and basic wiring skills

[@Digital-Dan]

Hard part is the magical step that led to the new Romex appearing in the box, without damaging the wall. Everything else was obvious. I was hoping for some guidance in threading the new cable through the wall, sigh.

[@fixitwithzim]

Dan Swinehart sorry for the delayed response, I shot a video of the light install and never posted it, maybe I will because this question is coming up frequently. I cut a small hole in the wall near the ceiling. I then removed the existing switch and fed a fish tape through the spare hole in the top of the junction box up to the hole I cut in the wall. This is the least obtrusive way of doing this with minimal damage. Hope this helps you.

[@jedrokth]

Fishing tape and a roller plate (it's a thing the shape of a single switch you can mount to the box, with metal roller wheels to prevent the cord from damaging the surrounding wall as you pull it through)

[@fixitwithzim]

jedrokth yup, that’s the way to do it. I just posted a new video on my channel related to this.

[@xxvodanhxx]

Damn I said the exact same thing before seeing your comment lmao

[@SixTwoHemi]

Good stuff. I’m a chief engineer for a management company and these type of videos are great training tools. My only critique is designating the difference between single pole switches vs three way and four ways. If you mentioned this my apologies but I didn’t hear anything about that because the DIY guy will just grab whatever he sees and it will be wrong. Nevertheless thanks for sharing I just subbed.

[@marcwetherbee6423]

Dude! Finally a great video on how to modify a switch loop. Thank you so much. I need to do this with three of the rooms in my 60's rancher that had no center ceiling lights and have been looking for a good instructional all week. You are the best!!

[@simplytrueyou9202]

I've only watched the first five minutes of your video but you have already shown what I need to know so I can wire a setup to control some plug in shop lights in my pole barn. There was no way to hardwire these ones in without doing a really ugly job of it so I am doing the switch outlet approach. Every other video so far has no closeups that are good, no proper explanations, but yours is spot on. And I will make sure to mark the white wire with electrical tape. Thanks.

[@fixitwithzim]

Good to hear, glad the video helped!

[@coypatton3160]

As a point of ease to be code approved in new runs from your panel to your switch box to what you want controlled by your switch. This keeps it neat and simple.

[@Dougiemort]

Best I've seen, and I've watched a bunch of these vids. Explanation was fast, succinct, informative and fascinating. There is a name for people like you: Teacher.

[@fixitwithzim]

Thank you buddy, appreciate it.

[@jeffperra]

Just what I was looking for. Been meaning to install some ceiling lighting in my kids' bedrooms, and came across this exact issue and wiring scheme. Thanks for your clear explanation and instructions.

[@kiiro0512]

Thank you so much for this! I know it’s an old video, but I watched so many videos trying to trouble shoot why I couldn’t get the connections quite right for a new ceiling light and this was my exact wiring configuration! Thank thank thank you!

[@rodgerrabbit2955]

Great job.... If it were me doing the job, I would have utilized acgreen wire nut. I also would have changed out the receptacle and single pole switch with better quality devices. They had to be old. You went through all that work, just update the devices to safer, better quality.....

[@chrismiller100]

Very helpful video. Nearly my entire house was wired so that switches controlled outlets, because the only build-in lights were in the kitchen & bathroom. All other rooms relied a lamp to be plugged in. Not only do I want to install lights and such in the ceiling, but I want to use smart switches to be controlled by my Amazon Echoes. Those smart switches require a neutral wire present. The only thing I'll need to do different from what was in this video is to make a pigtail from the neutral wire grouping to connect to the smart switch.

[@fixitwithzim]

Yes, I’ve found this video has done well due to the popularity of smart switches the past year or 2. Thanks for the comment!

[@mykec187]

Had the identical issue with my light switch. Was just going to tie into a circuit from the attic, drop it down and then back up to the light I'll be adding. Then after watching your video duh, go into the power outlet and put that neutral back on to an actual neutral wire, problem solved thank you so much

[@fixitwithzim]

Yeah, i had that moment too a couple times before I thought of what I showed in the video. Glad you got it figured out!

[@rudymans.1858]

Thanks man. My house was old and had no neutral wire at the outlet switch. This is smart. Thank u. Im installing wifi dimmer switch.

[@fixitwithzim]

Thank you!!

[@ryalman21]

Great video. I wonder how many people blow themselves up each year trying to wire in switches when they have no clue what they are doing? Be CAREFUL guys, especially if you live in Europe or the UK, where the wires are Brown, Blue, and yellow and green :-) or Red, Black and Green if you're old school. We have 240 volts in the UK and it can KILL !!!

[@fixitwithzim]

Thats why I mention "do this work at your own risk" and to hire an electrician if need be. People have their limitations, and its one of the reasons why I wouldn't hop in a cockpit and try to fly a plane . Thanks for the comment.

[@RichBStine]

Excellent video that helped me with a ceiling fan install on a wall switch with no neutral. Same wiring setup as yours. Thank you.

[@fixitwithzim]

That's great to hear. Thanks for the comment!

[@davidd5269]

Well done sir. This was exactly the video I needed. Going to tackle this project tomorrow. Hoping all goes well.

[@michaelellingson1269]

Great video. My set up is very similar to yours. Light switch box had a hot white wire along with a hot black wire that controlled a single outlet on my wall. I ran new wire Romex for a ceiling fan down to the switch box. Black, red, white and ground. In switch box I have the power (white and black) tied into a pig tail leading into the switch. Loading out of the switch box is a pigtail that is tied to the fan light (black and red) running to the fan. The neutral wire in the new wire pulled has nothing to connect to so I believe the circuit cannot be completed. The power to the outlet however has been completed and is no longer reliant on the switch being flipped up to get power. The difference I have is in my electrical outlet that was being controlled by the switch. I have on the gold side of the outlet a black and a red wire that are hot and two white wires that are not hot. There are no extra white wires that have been pig tailed in the outlet box so I’m not sure how to get my neutral wire in the switch box to not have power anymore. Any ideas?

[@nonaimbotpro4870]

This looks fun, I’m about to try this I must have neutral wire for my WiFi switches!!!!✊💯🔥👌👀

[@brianptighe]

Certain Lutron Caseta smart switches do not need a neutral wire - though you do need the Caseta hub.

[@chrisdeister7745]

Wow. Thank you for doing this. Super clear explanation.

[@fixitwithzim]

You’re welcome...Glad you liked the video!

[@jimross2101]

Gr8 video! The only improvement I could suggest is a schematic or line drawing of what you were going to do so it is easier to visualize.

[@PepsiManX360]

Great *

[@0blivioniox864]

This is the best way to do it... *IF* you no longer want to control the outlet via the switch. Assuming there's no other choice but to run another wire to the box if you still WANT TO control the outlet from the switch.

[@atahmas]

Excellent, thank you. This was so clear and to the point. Your online contribution is much appreciated.

[@doshiebond1214]

You helped me extremely I was lost but now I'm found

[@fixitwithzim]

Good stuff!

[@Savekey]

We can generate a neutral wire by No neutral wire power supply kit from savekey.

[@heroesandzeros7802]

Good presentation, but one problem. When you connected the ground wires in the switch box you twisted one ground wire around the other. Electrical inspectors will be looking for the green wirenuts to be present or they will fail the inspection. The green wirenuts have a hole in the end for one ground wire to go all the way through and the other ground wire is connected inside the box.

[@tigerseye73]

Local codes here require green crimp sleeve on the bare copper grounding bundle. Also find it easier and neater to give the finished devise a one turn twist before placing into the box. The wires will then be neatly coiled up.

[@fixitwithzim]

Yes, here too now as well. I added it after the video was filmed

[@jveralinares]

Finally a video regarding this issue well explained

[@mattschoular8844]

Tip: your wire stripper has a hole just above the stripping section to bend the J hook onto the stripped wire for the terminal. No need for the needle nose pliers for that purpose

[@blockisle9]

No need for wire strippers or needle nose. Linesman is all you need

[@1942nn]

I have seen someone even install an outlet with just the hot and ground from the switch box as they are very close to each other !!! Although the outlet appears to work, that's a NO NO.

[@robertmattison1282]

NEC 2017 require a neutral now. In all new installation. This due to many electronic devices that require a neutral. Because there was no neutral inside the box, the electrician would use the ground conductor. This way the NEC made this change. 12-2-2 or 14-2-2 is now being sold. No more switch loop in new switch box installation.

[@fixitwithzim]

Robert Mattison Thanks for the info, good stuff!

[@BaconbuttywithCheese]

Yes, it's annoying to only find a switched live conductor has been run to a wall box. Nice exlaination.

[@Casper-sb7gm]

Just what I needed! Awesome video

[@fixitwithzim]

Thank you!!

[@user-oq1ss3fv4c]

Good video, but no one would think that switch wire is a neutral, even a novice .

[@frederickvanpelt6393]

Good post. NOT pigtailing the neutral is a code violation and potentially harmful to equipment and a fire hazard.

[@peterharper9703]

I HATE the turn power to outlet..... I need to rewire mine too. Thank You for show how to fix it.

[@claudiacanales8584]

In MA you don’t need to identify the neutral , about a green wire nut for the ground wire, and if you are installing light fixtures you need to replace the breaker too AF

[@troykress5583]

This was fantastic! Exactly the issue I’m working with. thanks for the video.

[@rickschiaffo618]

Thank You!

[@fixitwithzim]

You’re welcome, glad to help

[@07Review]

Awesome video I did bought my house New on 2005 and this freaking electrician did the same thing, I don't know how did pass inspection

[@tgcrissy7327]

Thank you very much for the education

[@fixitwithzim]

You’re welcome!!

[@panama-sx2oh]

im a electrician very well prepared n properly done yes the electrician before should had reidentified the neutral but he did not. keep up good work n god bless

[@fixitwithzim]

panama1965 Thanks a lot for the comment and kind words. Appreciate it!

[@MrKongatthegates]

Before this I had no clue how you could even have a switch with no neutral lol. I feel dumb

[@fixitwithzim]

Yup, sort of an old school way of wiring. Codes have changed for new installs and require a neutral in switch boxes to accommodate smart switches/devices

[@Sylvan_dB]

The outlet was switched, now is always on. Makes it easier when you can lose functionality... Otherwise would have needed yet another romex between switch and outlet.

[@jesusesparza9286]

Thank for the video. Just what I needed to find out. What if both wires are black?

[@jdmcknght82]

Extremely helpful, can’t thank you enough!

[@ripper82]

It's worth mentioning that while rewiring the outlet, you created a dangerous setup in the switch box - because the load and the line were newly connected there. If the switch was in the ON position and someone decided to turn the breaker on to test the outlet, there would be some fireworks. For peace of mind, it would have been much safer to disconnect the switch *before* changing the load wire to neutral in the outlet.

[@fixitwithzim]

James Watson Working by myself in an empty house I wasn't too worried about that but I see where you're coming from. Thanks for the comment brother!

[@coypatton3160]

Safety standards are to put tape over the breaker if not working alone in a house. That should be recognized as not normal by most. Also let others in the house know you have turned off a breaker. Also off and tripped at different physically at the breaker.

[@Fromctoz]

Great video but not sure it will work with my set up. My outlet doesn’t have the hot wires that are capped off in your video. Instead only has the load wire and neutral wires. How do I get power back to the outlet if the load wire is turned into a neutral?

[@kevinflaherty7592]

I found this a lot in older homes

[@scrippslarry]

Excellent video! So we’ll explained! Thank you!

[@Jerry-pi2fe]

How did you know that the blue wire was supposed to be connected to the bare ground wire?

[@CitadelRunner]

My favorite part is where the new romex cable magically shows up inside the switch box. Where can I purchase the magic wand to do that?

[@fixitwithzim]

Watch the other video on my channel showing how it was installed...best part, it’s free!

[@shorefire3747]

Excellent instructions on this problem that I just came upon today, I do have one question if the switch works more than just one outlet like in a bedroom which outlet do you rewire the closest one to the switch?

[@ennisiori]

I would like to work as fast as you

[@ahmedm6041]

Nice clean job! Thanks for sharing..

[@ChaseWulff]

So, only switches have the potential to not have a neutral? But outlets will always have a neutral?

[@laneiaroman4189]

Thank you.

[@rms59]

Excellent video and explanation of why black tape or marking should always be added. However, i cringed when You cut excess wire off. I never do that since i came across to many jobs that had wires way too short.

[@fixitwithzim]

rms59 Thanks for the compliments. When we I trim the wiring in a j box, i make sure to leave enough for future work. The pinky and thumb trick which I'm sure you know is what I use to gauge the length of my stub outs. I like to trim all the conductors to the same length for ease of install

[@n5yiz]

What's the thumb and pinky trick? stubs should be as long as the distance from thumb to pinky?

[@jossimbyr]

@@n5yiz I'm guessing that's what he means. When I was helping my electrician wire our house, he told me to put my middle fingertip on the wall above the outlet and to extend my thumb all the way out. Pull the wires out of the box (this was right after the drywall was installed, so the wires were still long) and snip them off at the end of your thumb. This gives you roughly six inches of slack, while not totally crowding the interior of the box.

[@n5yiz]

@@jossimbyr Thanks...I'll have to remember that trick.

[@lolobotius]

Nice work with those wires

[@fixitwithzim]

Elena Gilbert thanks!

[@denismanace]

Thank you 😊

[@ashishmhetar8672]

I have a Smart switch with Neutral wire option, but I dont have neutral wire in my Electrical system at Home. How do I connect my Switch in this case?

[@menswearhous]

If I have 1 black/white/red wire going to a one way switch is my white not a neutral?

[@paulmauricio3600]

Straight to the point. Nice video

[@fixitwithzim]

Paul Mauricio Thank you

[@KevinCoop1]

Although I believe it a good practice to re-identify the white conductor used in the switch, I do not believe that it is a violation of NEC to install as in the video. Reference NEC 2017 310.110(C) This references you to 210.5(C) for branch circuits. It seems that re-identification of the conductors is required when there is more than one nominal voltage system. Residential has only 120 volts to ground, therefore re-identification is not required. As I said, I would do it if I were doing the install.

[@fixitwithzim]

Thanks for the info!

[@DragonettiDean]

Thanks for a great explanation and clean install.

[@rickschiaffo618]

Did this , then switch didn't work. ?? Now I'm confused.

[@CHSSeniorproject]

The bare equipment grounding conductors require a wire nut or some other type of connector not just the conductors twisted together. If someone opens the receptacle and doesn't know why the white conductor is spliced to the two black conductors they should hire an electrician.

[@fixitwithzim]

Thanks for the comment, have a great day!

[@the_first_woodwizard]

Excellent, Very clear details. Thanks

[@emailatomic]

Does this mean that electric sockets always have a neutral?

[@abrahamvaro5482]

Nice video ,thanks!!!

[@mattpkp]

good video, in my case sadly the switch without the neutral goes to a light so I believe I Need to run another wire to the light.

[@joeymelton4095]

Matt neutral will be at ur fixture

[@cre8sone]

In a situation like this you are not required to identify the white wire in the switch box with tape. You don't know the code on a white wire. A white wire is either a neutral or a constant hot.

[@Clowe49444]

can you do this same video wiring a smart dimmer instead?????

[@fixitwithzim]

Yes, same type of idea if you need a neutral.

[@Neckoslash]

Hey man this video helped me a ton thank you very very much

[@gotbb2076]

Wow great video

[@farmerdave7965]

Wow ! You are really quick !

[@fixitwithzim]

Farmer Dave My wife tells me that all the time

[@krapeevids6992]

EXACTLY!!! Always indicate when a NEUTRAL ISNT REALLY NEUTRAL . Hate seeing that shit...

[@MMikemezta]

Thank you so much really helpful video

[@fixitwithzim]

Mike M You're welcome, thanks for taking the time to comment

[@jerseydevil3799]

Good video

[@HerminiePA]

I like it, however, when you speeded up the video on the receptical, I could only count three black wires and three white wires going into the wire nut. You said four, but I lost the logic of the circuit at that point.

[@fixitwithzim]

Harry McMackin the 4th wire is the pigtail from the wire nut to the outlet. Hope this helps

[@johnvasquez4442]

The video is great if I want to add a device that the switch can control by bypassing the plug. In my case, I just want to add a wi-fi switch to control the plug. I need a neutral wire? It looks like my only hope is to run a neutral wire from the plug to the switch. That sucks.

[@johnvasquez4442]

Great Idea! However, the room has no ground. So I guess I'm screwed. But I could do it in parts of the house that does have a ground.

[@danielfinnegan8494]

The answer seems obvious but it doesn't look like there's really a way to add a neutral wire in the switch box, but keep the outlet being switched (not changing to a permanently installed fixture) without snaking a new wire up to the switch unfortunately. I'm trying to add a smart dimmer switch to control a plugged in lamp and have the same wiring situation as the beginning of the video.

[@fixitwithzim]

Daniel Finnegan you’ll need to add a wire. Others have asked this and I’ll be posting a video soon showing how I did that. On a side not, you should never add a dimmer to control an outlet. Too many things can go wrong if someone plugs another device into it besides the lamp you want to control. You can purchase a dimmable bulb that is controlled over wifi which might be the better option for your situation

[@danielfinnegan8494]

@@fixitwithzim thanks for the response.

[@portapottyflipper6957]

This was extremely helpful. Thanks!

[@fixitwithzim]

You’re welcome, glad the video helped!

[@s4slade]

Great video! Extremely helpful. I'm looking to convert my 3-way switch setup to a smart config but I only have a neutral on one switch end. I'm trying to avoid using a bridge and still have it compatible with Alexa and Google. I know a bridge can support many devices but because of the size of the house, I am trying to avoid it if possible as well as avoid running a new wire in the wall. Any ideas?

[@SCraigHufford]

@fixitwitzim - Is there a similar way to install standard smart three-way switches in a box where the electrician used the neutral from the breaker box as a traveler? I have a three-way switch with the Neutrals in the box, but this is the load switch (shorts the circuit, when I connect the Neutral wire to the switch), and the line switch uses the Neutral wire as one of the Travelers! The line switch is configured in a two-gang box with another three-way switch (I would like to replace that one, too). Can I pig-tail the Line (or Neutral) wire from the adjacent switch to the Neutral for the smart switch? Thanks.

[@fastfix50]

I have similar issue. My switch control small bathroom fan. The power source come into the fan first. The switch has only 1 romex 14/2 come into the box. I have a bare copper ground connect to the switch, a back wire constant power supply connect to brass screw and a white (not neutral) connect to other brass screw on the switch to return the power back to the fan. Now, I like to add an outlet right below the switch but I dont have a neutral wire. What is the best way resolve this issue? Thanks in advance Zim

[@gmoya559]

I follow all the steps and I get it to work in the area I am working on, but I cause another breaker to trip! Any suggestions for a solution to that?

[@sawhorse9820]

Nice job...crystal clear!

[@gregberban9273]

Funny. That's the stupidest video ever seen

[@sawhorse9820]

@@gregberban9273 You need experience to understand. That was just a little over your head.

[@gregberban9273]

@@sawhorse9820 master electrician 40yrs experience sure I do

[@sawhorse9820]

@@gregberban9273 Ooops, then I'm sure your expertise is over my head ;-)

[@greatblakes]

Where the hell did that new wire come from? That's the part I needed to know.

[@ezrabrooks7785]

Yeah that's the part needed most Didn't show it ? 🖓

[@watcherofwatchers]

A separate wire pulled to feed the lights that don't exist (at the time the video was filmed). He made this clear. I feel like if you missed that, then you missed the entire point of this video.

[@farmerdave7965]

This is why switch legs are forbidden on my jobs. Power feeds go to the switch.

[@fixitwithzim]

Farmer Dave Yeah, I would never wire switch legs if starting from scratch. It's nice to have the convenience of a neutral in every box for future work.

[@rocketrider1405]

do you mean switch loop?

[@fixitwithzim]

It is called both in my area.

[@xxvodanhxx]

The hardest part would have been to run that new wire down into an existing box. How do you fish that ? lol Sometimes it's really hard to remove the box. Esp if its nailed in.

[@fixitwithzim]

I have another video on my channel showing how I ran it, not all that difficult and with minor damage to the drywall

[@TimYorty]

how did you get the new white wire going to the ceiling light in place? That's the hard part that I don't understand how to do.

[@fixitwithzim]

Tim Yorty I shot a video of the light install and never posted it, maybe I will because this question is coming up frequently. I cut a small hole in the wall near the ceiling. I then removed the existing switch and fed a fish tape through the spare hole in the top of the junction box up to the hole I cut in the wall. This is the least obtrusive way of doing this with minimal damage. Hope this helps you.

[@chriswalsh784]

Can u do the same for a ceiling fan?

[@andyowens5494]

Interesting, and useful to help me plan a smart dimmer installation in the UK (where we dont have neutrals in light switch circuits) BUT (and its a big BUT), the layout in this video is illegal in the UK, so any UK viewers, dont do this! Its basically taking power off the sockets to power a light; those should be on separate circuits in the UK. If a device in a socket trips the breaker, the lights go out, so you cant see what you’re doing to fix it. Also, if anyone wants to work on a light fitting and trips the breaker for the lights, they may be surprised when that light isnt off power (yes, they should check before touching, but people forget and thats how people get electrocuted).

[@nitnit202]

Your almost right but some of what you said could cause people to panic unnecessary from the UK , yes doing like for like as per the video is not allowed in the UK , BUT if wired correctly lights CAN be taken off sockets , not ideal but still legal and within regulations (current - 18th edition wiring regulations).IF any doubt on any installation a qualified electrician should be called.

[@jw1074]

The power isnt at the switch its backfed from the switch and switches terminals at the plug

[@AdamMT1618]

Awesome video! Thank you.

[@fixitwithzim]

Thank you!

[@sdatta2452]

does the outlet turns on when the dimmer switch on or does outlet stay on all the time?