Understanding an Open or Loaded Neutral

What is a loaded or open neutral, and why did I get a shock from it? This video is about getting a shock from an open or loaded neutral conductor. The problem in this example was an electrical circuit that was being worked on during a renovation. A junction box had been taken apart and the splices undone. When the power was restored to the circuit with these splices not reconnected yet, that's what caused the condition. The neutral needs to be a direct path back to the panel and never switched, or left undone. Here is more detail on my website that has a diagram to better illustrate the concept. www.electrical-online.com/und...

[@ef2b]

Two comments that might help people: First, the key idea is voltage drop. Imagine a simple circuit that doesn't even have a switch. You attach hot and neutral to a simple lamp base with a bulb in it. This isn't realistic, but it helps get the idea across. The voltage on the hot terminal will be 120V. Current flows through the resistance provided by the bulb and this resistance causes the voltage to drop across the bulb. In fact, it drops 120V and the voltage on the neutral terminal will be zero. A voltage drop occurs ONLY when current flows. If you disconnect the neutral from the lamp base, current stops flowing. Therefore, the voltage drop across the bulb becomes zero. The terminal from which you disconnected the neutral is now up at 120V. No current is flowing, but the terminal is at 120V, ready to bite you. This is what happened in the circuit in the video. If you open a neutral in a circuit with current, you stop the current. All the voltage drops upstream of where you opened the neutral become zero and the voltage of the neutral on the conductor coming from upstream will go to 120/240 and the other neutral (heading back to the box) will be at zero. Here's the second comment: Never trust a neutral. Here's what I mean. I had to replace a pigtail in a lighting outlet. Before making changes, I checked for voltage, hot and neutral, found voltage, and then opened breaker. I saw the voltage go away, so I knew that I had the right breaker (since I saw things turn off). "Never trust a neutral," means that, even though I had taken all due care in identifying the proper breaker, when I untwisted the neutral splice to do my work, I did not assume I was safe. Good thing, because, as the neutral splice opened, it arced. How was this possible, since power was off, as proven by probing for voltage and killing the circuit? Simple. Someone screwed up. Somehow, they managed to tie the neutrals of two circuits together somewhere. So, voltage went off on the hot in the outlet when I opened the breaker, and there was no voltage on the neutral, but there *was* current in the neutral from some other circuit (who knows where) and, when I opened that splice, I interrupted that other circuit, the voltage drops went away, and the neutral in the splice came up to 120V. Never trust a neutral. Hope this helped.

[@theinternetelectrician]

Good additional information here! Thanks for posting and contributing to the education regarding this subject!

[@felixcarrasco1756]

Pp

[@danielbarbosa3]

This definitely helped a lot. Thank you very much.

[@ACommenterOnYouTube]

shared neutral ... Some person got lazy and could not find the open N so they found another working circuit nearby from another breaker but with a working N and they tied into it ...

[@ghulamalijafferi5754]

Thanks for this clear explanation , now everything makes sense

[@jasonjanes9756]

I understood what he said because I already saw a video where somebody actually explained it in an easy to understand manner. Terry gets a C- for his teaching skills on this one.

[@seymourscagnetti1413]

HE FAILS TO SHOW THE SECOND HALF OF THE PROBLEM. THIS VIDEO IS USELESS.

[@chetmyers7041]

Terry uses the phrase "Further up in the circuit" which had me totally confused, as he just showed us that up the wall was located just a lamp socket. I believe Terry's perspective must be that "up the circuit" refers to wires closer to the pole outside, you know, the one that is "up in the sky." Agreed, his video is near useless. Would be better if he knew how to show a schematic and simulate a break in a wire.

[@Hadzz95]

@@seymourscagnetti1413 he took the splice apart further up the stream. Since the light was switched on his body wanted to complete the circuit. Its pretty simple. Terry said all that

[@JuanSanchez-pq7xn]

Where is the how to corrected ???

[@itoibo4208]

@@MakingBusinessesBetterAgain you guys are scaring me

[@noampitlik2332]

Well, you explained it, but sped by the part about the splices. Might want to show that. Thanks.

[@scotthorslin5482]

Agreed. Explained it, but still some uncertainty.

[@Cyberdactyl]

He should have used a diagram. A classic example of someone knowing the situation so well they don't really know how to explain it clearly.

[@wannabecarguy]

I most likely have a loaded neutral. I've had every expert over to help me figure it out. And they can't. Breaker is off and I still get shocked.

[@dracula3811]

@@wannabecarguy did you test the breaker? Are you sure the correct breaker is turned off?

[@justme4172]

I agree, I sure wish he would’ve demonstrated or explained in more detail what/how it happened with the white wire his friend messed up.

[@stevioclark]

Showing the upstream splice would be nice. Showing how to correct the problem. Thanks for your videos.

[@awizardalso]

I'm not a certified electrician, but have been keeping myself educated. I first started when I was ten years old in 1964 by reading books at the library. I started fixing table lamps and other electrical things for neighbors and friends. I later got into electronics and started fixing home record players, audio amplifiers, and other things as well. This did work well for me overall as in 2006, I got a job at a company that built power control equipment for subways and light/heavy commuter and other electric powered trains. I was also able to point out design faults in the equipment we built, mostly when wires were too close to what are called load measuring resistor packs that would get very hot. They were wired in parallel to track circuit breakers and were activated in short bursts when a circuit breaker tripped to measure current flow to determine if the short still existed. Sometimes my advice wasn't taken and equipment would fail when put into operation. I also studied building codes before I rewired the bathroom and kitchen in my house built in 1913. There's still some antique light switches and old wiring using single wires and ceramic knob tubes in the house, but there's no heavy loads on those circuits. I've subscribed to your channel and hit the bell. There's always something I can learn from videos like these. Thank you.

[@theinternetelectrician]

Thanks for watching! And for taking the time to comment!

[@kipster-ll6po]

A picture is worth 1,000 words. You showed us everything except the cause of the problem. When it came time for that, all we got was a verbal explanation. Clear as mud.

[@theinternetelectrician]

Thanks for the comment, constructive criticism is welcomed here. This is a link to my website that helps with the explanation. www.electrical-online.com/understanding-an-open-or-loaded-neutral/

[@rupe53]

While working for a heating company years ago I got a late night call for no heat. I get there to see a fairly new warm air furnace and instinctively I reach for the power switch mounted on the side to see if it's on and to see if may have been installed up side down. (on being in the down position) On touching the switch box I was lit up like a Xmas tree because the whole cabinet was hot! Turn off the breaker and open the box to see lots of wires under one wire nut.... and the connection was burnt to a crisp. There was NO neutral and nobody had bothered to tie the ground to the box or cabinet. 15 minutes later I had trimmed back to good wire, added a second wire nut, and grouped the neutrals into bunches of 3 with a jumper, plus tied the ground to the box. Back in business. In hind sight, had they run conduit to the switch box there probably would have been a secondary neutral path via ground, but this was a Romex run from the ceiling to the unit WITHOUT a hard ground connection. In that case it may not have provided heat but I wouldn't have been blown to the floor with a hot cabinet. Did I mention this house had a dirt floor? All the better reason to have a good neutral and ground. I never did find out who wired this thing but now I always check with my inductive tester first.

[@theinternetelectrician]

Yes, good idea (inductive tester)! You never know what you're going to find when coming in to a trouble-call!

[@houseorhome4707]

As a home inspector I appreciate your calm demeanor and ability to communicate that things can be corrected.

[@Robert-xp4ii]

Between me watching another electrical video before yours, then specifically looking for one about open neutrals (finding yours), I finally understand what's happening. I believe I've seen that open neutral light, on a simple 3-prong plug tester, at my parents' house on certain outlets as well as at switches. Not being an electrician, obviously, I'm sure it'll be fun trying to trace the direction the current flows from each plug/switch to the next. 😕 I do appreciate your video though and you making it easy to understand. Idk why but I'm very mechanically inclined but have always avoided electricity issues beyond installing lights, switches, and outlets. I created a mental block for myself. LOL Thanks again!

[@johnh9507]

being a good teacher is explaining complete details no matter how small or trivial it may seem

[@hortyist1]

Right, I'm still wondering why he touched the black lead to the bottom of the junction box during one test, and the neutral wire, in another.

[@jrchicago9216]

Correct me if I am wrong... the neutral being hot is a result of backfeed from a common load passing back to an unbonded open circuit in the neutral... it’s also possible to blow up electronic appliances from a phase because of a non bonded neutral causing a 240v feed between loads. I learned on outdoor 120v branch circuits to use a double pole safety cut out switch disconnecting both hot and neutral as the neutral can have a different potential to grounds in the field which is a safety hazard even on circuits where the hot is switched off at the breaker. This is especially important when the circuit is brought to a location like a light pole or older commercial settings where ground potentials can vary widely.

[@theinternetelectrician]

An open neutral on your service conductors, or at the main panel can cause all sorts of issues, with 120V appliances and equipment subject to anywhere from 0 to 240V, depending on what else is turned on and off.

[@atanaspacov418]

Hi and thank you for the information ! In our country - Bulgaria. The really old houses wirings, probably in the oldest lefted on villages houses has only two fuses for breaker for the whole house from the transformer to the everything around the house - one for the live wire and another one for the neutral, because couple of time ago in our country, the law requires only dual house wirings /with only live and neutral in the house, without ground/ and also - contacts with no grounding /the appliances manufactured then in our country was at law - double insulated/. So, one time i started diagnosing him, telling father to stop the fuse, and he misappealy take off the neutral one. So I wondered for a little why it has live on the both conducters even in the destributions on the wall /in the housing them in our area, it has destribution boxes in the walls before to go to every Individual outlet or socket. And there, the wires for the sockets and lamps are tied up together. I am figured it out suddenly, so that my dad has taked off only the one fuse - neutral one from my grandpa's house. Haha But here how it can happen dangerous faults !!!

[@randyspencer3314]

I’ve run into this quite often in my house that was built in 1930 with cloth wrapped wires and porcelain insulators.. started replacing wires and outlets and figured out it was easier just to cut out all the old and start at the breaker box instead of routing them back the same way originally done and avoided a lot of unnecessary splicing.

[@Engineerboy100]

Thank you Terry for adding to my knowledge, I'm trying to install and automatic electrical switch for a backup generator. I'm not and electrician but I am an engineer and know just about enough to get myself killed. lol I'm trying to learn enough to survive this project. Thanks again. and just incase someone is wondering, the answer is NO I will not be doing a video explaining how to do this once I figure it out. It's too dangerous to share with the general public and as an engineer it would be irresponsible of me to share this information with unqualified persons. I am actually unqualified myself so I definitely will not be sharing it with anyone else, Sorry.

[@pappabob29]

If it helps to explain, that exposed splice on the white (neutral) he was showing in the switch box would have been open (un-done). So he wouldn't be testing a "neutral" any longer. Only a section of white wire between the light and the switch. Unscrew the light bulb and you wouldn't get ANY reading between the switch and the end of the white wire since the light bulb filament is acting like a "coupling" (connecting the black to the white at the lamp) and extending the black wire that brings power to the lamp. Yes, a diagram or more physical demo would help.

[@KpxUrz5745]

Very much appreciated. The average DIY'er often has very important things to understand about electricity, and certainly needs to take every precaution. Mistakes are often things that were never even thought of as possible, or careless oversights and assumptions.

[@TimBolenski]

“So the answer is you have spliced up stream” What the hell does that mean? You explained everything well except the answer to our problem. I don’t remember splicing anything.

[@aarondavis176]

Yeah I found that frustrating too, that was the moment I was waiting for but then I skipped over it

[@KitchenerLeslie2]

Between this splice and the panel someone took apart the neutral splice, so your neutral becomes a hot.

[@1942nn]

What this means is the white wire (neutral) was connected from an outlet before it. Spliced wires simply mean connecting them, typically by twisting exposed tips then put in a wire nut to secure the connection. To understand the word "upstream", consider this: electricity goes to the circuit breaker, then goes in the the house, going thru outlet #1, then outlet#2, etc... till the last outlet. If you are working on the troublesome outlet#5, upstream includes outlets#1 thru #4. This video says "you have spliced up stream", meaning the connection was done in an outlet before the one in work, and the connection could be broken at any of these. If outlet#5 is in trouble, go back the stream to test other outlets. Once you find a working one, the bad connection could be here or on the next one downstream. For example, you test #4 (found bad), #3 (found bad), #2 good. The bad connection could be at #2 or #3. The pro electricians talk in their own language assuming that we are pro like them !!! It's very hard for us to understand. That is why I do not hire pro !!!

[@theinternetelectrician]

I have a post on my website about this that has line diagrams that might help you understand what goes on here. electrical-online.com. Search on open nuetral.

[@andrewmarcinko1796]

@@aarondavis176 he spoke in electrician terms so maybe a little confusing, but knowing electrical terminology everything he said came across loud and clear.

[@KitchenerLeslie2]

I’ll never forget my first open neutral!

[@1942nn]

must be a "shocking experience" LOL

[@adamlewellen5081]

It definitely tickled. Found in a main. Detached. Definitely need to figure 60s 70s branch circuit...

[@slerner20]

I was having trouble with a TP Link smart dimmer switch. A Google search led me to this video, which was extremely helpful. It was great to see how to test the switch and eliminate problems. It turned out that I had the line and load wires reversed, hey both were black. Thanks for helping me out in a jam!

[@Misfits89]

Well explained and to the point, no stupid side jokes or useless back stories

[@theinternetelectrician]

Thanks for the comment! Don't rule out any stupid jokes or useless back stories however, I've been know to do that once in a while! Thanks for watching, and I hope that you have subscribed to my channel, and gave the video a 'like'?

[@chrysmarty4935]

Perfect explanation. Just went through this exact same thing. Followed my neutral wires and found where somebody had spliced them and they had come apart. Thank you.

[@MichaelHagberg]

Add a junction box between the panel and the switch. Then disconnect the nuteral wires in the juntion box to demonstrate the open circuit.

[@seymourscagnetti1413]

THANK YOU MICHEAL! NOW I UNDERSTAND! (HE FAILS TO SHOW THE SECOND HALF OF THE PROBLEM. THIS VIDEO IS USELESS)

[@jonhcontreras]

love your diagrams.. you explain things very well... thank you for sharing,,,

[@robertgalipeau2001]

You should provide a diagram in conjunction with demo, it would add clarification for those who may not get it from the demo.

[@paulmaxwell8851]

Great explanation. I've done electrical work for years but it never hurts to brush up on my skills.

[@theinternetelectrician]

Paul Maxwell thanks Paul!

[@sunshine7453]

This is the best answer I find. The demo is superb. Thank you for the efforts!

[@aaronwilliamson4045]

House wiring can be tricky to analyze from limited check points. But if you can keep in mind the overall circuit and source of the two points where you are reading a voltage and think about where it could be coming from (like through a load) you can figure most out.

[@MJCPeters]

Thanks, this explains the theory behind half of my problem. My current issue is: Mobile Home with panel wired like a subpanel (bonding at the pole) Panel has 50 amp main breaker with 4 conductor pigtail to 4 prong plug Plug to outlet on pole protected by another 50 amp breaker/shutoff. Direct to meter/ power co. Power off at pole for all work😀 turned on for test only After scratching my head for the longest time, I disconnected all circuits (8) Capped off all hot and neutral wires, left all grounds connected. Tested main lugs Test showed 120 between ground and neutral just like your example but...... I also see that if I connect a test load (60 watt bulb) to any breaker if I switch the Load on I get 0 volts on the red terminal and 240 on the black When the load is off it is 120/120 Took the cover off the supply on the pole the neutral was burnt and open Explaining the 120 on neutral to ground. What causes the 120/120 shift to 0/240...? Thanks for the help

[@curiosity2314]

Well it was good verbal explanation but not good visual in a circuit diagram. Schematic in electricity is were the rubber meets the road... This video needs more work with a point A to point B fault and remedy. Missing is what is upstream causing the fault. WIKI would say this article needs to be more comprehensive.

[@theinternetelectrician]

Sorry, this was just an general information video regarding a situation a friend encountered, and an explanation why. I can do better next time!

[@curiosity2314]

Thanks!

[@MrBuzzman76]

I had this happen during a bathroom remodel in my home. Whole circuit was wire 100% with a loaded neutral. Found that at the source of power junction box the neutral going back into the original source had a poor connection. Rescrewed the wire nut on with 3 neutrals and bingo. Everything on circuit working.

[@woodywoodlstein9519]

Curiosity exactly what I thought too.

[@mcearl8073]

Woody Woodlstein Yea same here. I have this same issue but I don’t know where the neutral is open, I’d like to figure out the best way of testing it to determine where the fault could be.

[@renemolina2645]

If he would of shown and explained it with an electrical diagram what is happening at lot of more people would underestand.

[@theinternetelectrician]

Try this. And if you still have questions please don't hesitate to reach out. www.electrical-online.com/understanding-an-open-or-loaded-neutral/

[@patocube]

Thank you, my name is Patrick from Uganda, your video helped me.

[@larry9210]

Yes, please show the splice that caused the problem. Other than that a great video, but without that additional information not sure how useful it is. Thanks again

[@theinternetelectrician]

I guess I could have shown a couple of white wires not connected together, but I thought explaining "white wires that should be connected, but were taken apart and not re-connected" would create a bit of a visual impression. But thanks for the feedback, you're not the first one to comment on that.

[@heatherreilly1317]

Hello, Terry. My class and I watched your video and we had a question about circuits. We are currently studying single circuits and parallel circuits and we would like to know if there is no load, will the current still flow through the connectors (wires)?

[@theinternetelectrician]

Heather Reilly no, if there is no load, no current will flow. Think of it like water in your homes pipes. If the valve is closed, (switch off) there is no water flowing (current flow). There is still pressure there (voltage or potential) but until you open the valve and make use of the water pressure, no water will flow.

[@dougb8207]

But if you touch it and have another part of your body touching ground, you will be the load (you may glow like a light bulb). 😉

[@tracykey9227]

EXACTLY; the question was answered, but given the "potential" for grave danger of electrical shock, i would have included your statement as a, "just be aware though", inclusion.

[@ruskface]

Have to agree. I had hot neutral and this video has left me even more confused as to why. Need to explain exactly what you mean by open neutral. Is it open that the panel or 'upstream'?

[@theinternetelectrician]

You get this situation when the neutral path is not complete. It could be anywhere in the circuit between where it is discovered and the panel. A splice in a junction box, or a broken or loose connection right at the neutral bar in the panel itself.

[@patrickdunn8918]

Most likely in a 120v outlet box, or light fixture box. Neutrals have joints tied together with wire nuts, or other connectors.

[@MacDaddyRico]

Those open neutrals can be tricky...and deadly... I was called to a newly constructed home on a service call because the plumbers said they were getting shocked by their faucets... It took me a while but I finally tracked down and fixed the problem: The neutral on the load side in the meter base was never tightened at all...

[@theinternetelectrician]

Yup, that will do it! And the problem with those is that it's usually random, sometimes connected, then it opens up causing the issues to not be consistent.

[@arealmaintenanceandrepairl1103]

What he showed isn’t this only possibly if it’s a multiple circuit or 3 wire ?if you have 2 wire open neutral won’t show anything

[@AskTheElectrician]

Great video Terry, I know what you mean, I have seen this type of work in Mexico, Brazil, and the Philippines. It can get dangerous, but they do what they can and get by. Best of luck with your new course - looks good!

[@theinternetelectrician]

Thanks Dave!

[@joshuacaldwell5887]

The more I study electricity the more I realize how much I don't know 😅

[@uawsux]

You keep studying electricity and I assure you when you think you know all there is to know you will actually be a babbling idiot

[@MauriceCalis]

He didn't really explain how it happened.

[@sunshine7453]

I started taking a few courses hoping that I will know everything. The more I learned, the less I know. I went up to Master Degree and still learning every day!

[@ramuganesan]

I also feel the same

[@wagner55]

Pure sorcery! 😆

[@magetaaaaaa]

My left ear learned something today.

[@NorthernWindNut]

If you switch your headphones and re-watch the video your right ear will, too.

[@theinternetelectrician]

Sorry again for the audio. Our mistake in the evolution of learning. It happened in our settings when we uploaded the video.

[@beerbandit291]

Try connecting your right ear to ground.

[@Z71Ranger]

Maybe He has a Open Neutral...

[@edwardmartinez199]

Z71Ranger Z71 ranger try Silverado that fits.

[@jordanlayman8335]

Just had a similar situation. Outstanding explanation to an annoying issue. thank you!

[@platano8240]

Great video I did same mistake couple month back.. thank you

[@MitzvosGolem1]

all current ultimately goes back to neutral and or ground rod through ground water back to power generation location. At substations there is a huge array of copper rods into ground to actual generator and or transformers. We installer alot of sub stations. Many do not realize all current has to go in circle back to lowest potential. Shalom

[@CopperCettle]

that is just not true, go look it up, ground rods into the earth are for lightning for the most part

[@tomweller5045]

Why not show what happened in the box up stream? Also, with a plug in tester, it will show where the open neutral is, won't it?

[@Fiedyp]

Cool That's why

[@theinternetelectrician]

www.electrical-online.com/understanding-an-open-or-loaded-neutral/

[@Tony-og5up]

It will only show there is a open neutral on that circuit, not where it is. You could have half a dozen receptacles and a couple lights on a circuit, meaning you would have to hunt for it and knowing what to look for. Of course with cutting the breaker, exposing as he did, then carefully check. If that one is ok, go to the next. In this case, look for a disconnected white wire in a junction box. That is the usual culprit. Or in the case of someone twisting it too tight, it was broken and messing with it broke it off, not knowing, or simply didnt get it in the wire nut, if wires were not twisted. But again, make sure the breaker is off by using the plug in tester.

[@stupadaso7472]

Tom Weller thats kinda what i thot, zap, hey someting wong..

[@MasterChief-sl9ro]

Because it was simple. The neutral was not grounded at the panel. It was just floating. As it can be anywhere between the switch\outlet to the panel. And that can be anywhere. Including several other switches\outlets and boxes....

[@mikemike7397]

Thank you. I have outside lights on a store that show a hot line wire but no current when timer is switched on for the neutral. I’ll have to follow the circuit up stream and see if a splice has been disconnected. Definitely 👍🏻 and a sub.

[@vince6829]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge. Much appreciated.

[@Seemsayin]

"He found that he had open splices further up the circuit". Well... that's fine & dandy. But... That really doesn't give you the actual reason why he had 120 on his neutral. People are gonna ask about those open splices further up the circuit, where the cause of the problem is. So what actually was the cause? For example, the same neutral, at the opposite end of the circuit might probably be connected to a hot leg. If that were the case, then you've given a reason why your neutral is loaded. If someone's sewer is blocked & wants to know why... the EASY answer is: there's a problem somewhere down the line. Well, no shit. The answer is with the actual problem, which everyone wants to know. Unless... I've missed something? Sorry. Don't mean to jump on your back. Thanks for taking the time to enlighten the uninitiated.

[@theinternetelectrician]

The cause was that he had taken apart a splice while he was doing his renovations and had forgot that the splice was still open. Once re-connected as it should have been, all was well. This was just to explain how and why you can have a reading of 120V on a neutral, that should be at earth or ground potential.

[@Seemsayin]

I apologize if I sounded rude. I appreciate the fact that you made the effort to shed some light on the subject. I was in a pissy mood to begin with, and vented on ya. My bad. Thanks for the quick reply. Best of luck to you.

[@JohnSmith-td6dn]

Problem is I'm not enlightened!

[@Seemsayin]

John Smith John... I respect your honesty. And thanks again for the effort to make your video.

[@qrs_tuv1925]

It would be great if you could do a video demonstrating what he did and how to correct it

[@tux1968]

My only question after watching this video is what is an open or loaded neutral?

[@1942nn]

Neutral wire is WHITE, open means it is not connected to anything. Let say a light bulb has black and white wires connected to it. When turn ON, the black wire will carry electricity (from another black wire thru the switch), the electricity goes thru the light filament and goes to the white wire which is OPEN (not connected). So this white wire (open neutral) now measures 120 Volts, meaning it is LOADED. I am an engineer not a professional electrician who like to explain things using their own language which confuses us. I learned to explain the popular way so popular people can understand. How to fix this issue ? Tough job as this neutral wire is part of a circuit for many outlets and the white wire could be opened (broken connection or not connected) at any of these. I know how to track this down but cannot explain it in details here.

[@thenexthobby]

The order in which things happen determines which terminology is relevant. The neutral only becomes loaded IF it is open (disconnected from the breaker box) AND the circuit is energized WITH something (the light bulb) that is capable of sending current to its neutral side connection. The hot side “wants” to reverse (alternate) current flow but never can until it’s brought down by ground (in a proper AC circuit) or by you (if you are unfortunately the ground). Now go back and read my second sentence because of course neutral is STILL loaded in a correctly wired circuit, too. Disconnect neutral and the circuit stops. So, “artificially loaded” might be a better way of characterizing the faulty condition. And there ain’t none of that nuance in this video unfortunately, which is why it’s not as clear as it could be.

[@pbl57lsu]

Awesome video! Like a ground side switch on dc! The only light going off is the one over my head haha.

[@mcleodhomeservices]

Very informative. Didn’t know that!!!

[@cat-lw6kq]

I wish I could see a diagram of what happened..

[@theinternetelectrician]

Here is a more detailed look at this with diagrams. www.electrical-online.com/understanding-an-open-or-loaded-neutral/

[@randallcrawf]

You shouldn't mess with electrical wiring, that's what should happen. OMG people, really? Are you THAT dense?

[@roywest6557]

You didn't show the main part!!

[@francociano1594]

Exactly!

[@1ftintheflames]

For real! Wheres the solution. Im dealing with the same issue in my garage

[@gregavakian3973]

@@1ftintheflames The problem is that between the switch box and the panel, the neutral is disconnected. So the potential voltage has gone out on the hot, through the bulb and back down the neutral ...to where the break in the neutral is. Once he connects the 2 disconnected neutral wires (the "hot" neutral coming from the light and the switch box and the neutral wire that normally continues to the panel), everything will be OK. In this example, his friend had taken apart a junction box ...what the video didn't explain is that the junction box is located between the switch and the panel.

[@JaylenBieber]

Your 100% right. What a Waste! 😆

[@JaylenBieber]

I have a open a reversed neutral in the kitchen. I change all the outlets, even change a light switch. I even changed my circuit breakers. I even checked the junction box that joins in the kitchen. And I still couldn't find the open neutral in the kitchen. Could it be behind a wall? Could it be that it's touching the 🔥 hot somewhere? Can it be a nail hitting it? What could it be? What can cause this?

[@pbrown6097]

I also would have like to see what he did in the box! I like your videos because the sound and video filming are great with no camera shaking.

[@theinternetelectrician]

Thanks! What happened upstream was just a neutral splice that was disconnected breaking the path of current flow back to the panel.

[@theinternetelectrician]

Check out this post on my website for more details. www.electrical-online.com/understanding-an-open-or-loaded-neutral/

[@mattmccarty72]

Great video, thanks for the explanation.

[@guitarsid]

You need to show a diagram. The switch must be on, right? if the switch is turned off then no power should be at the neutral.

[@thehighriseconstructionob9679]

Yap when Mr Terry connected last one nutro to gound his power was on at swich so circuit was complited for hot & nutro and on top of that he complited another circuit with multimeter nutro to gound ofcorce nutro it hot swich was on from hot to nutro by multimeter he complited Nutro to ground so its hot again. It should be hot swich was off and nutro it self carring current right sir? But swich was on and connecting nutro to ground curring current ofcorce sir. If I'm saying wrong please correct me sir thanks.

[@ballsyau1974]

Do what I say not what I do. That's what I say to my apprentices. 😂

[@padilla7019]

Watching the video second time and now I understand 120v not coming the light on, I had that situation where a guy kept saying it’s the light fixture itself or I was not using right the wire nuts a hard head person but this video gave me a good understanding to keep moving and don’t stay to long dealing with the light fixture that is not coming on even if you have 120v

[@PangaeaJAL]

Do you have a video explaining fault isolation of problems in GROUND connection that would cause this symptom ?

[@williamwilson6499]

For the confused....checkout the diagram on his website. He explained it perfectly in the video but the diagram allows you to trace the path and makes it easier to envision. You can see where the path is broken so current doesn’t flow, but voltage still gets to the neutral. Touch the neutral and you complete the circuit.

[@theinternetelectrician]

Thanks William!

[@Tony-og5up]

Terry, Thanks for your videos. But,...As a retired industrial/residential electrician, "I" understand the situation. But people who really have no business messing with electrical wiring have no idea what you are talking about without you showing by example what caused it, rather than to just mention it. Without being rude, without that, the video is rather useless for the unknowing novice. Sorry, just constructive criticism. BTW, the worst messes I have ever had to correct is when people of such, mess around with 3 way, 4+ way switching. Totally screwed up. Novice people have no idea what NEC Code is either. These people also need to realize that they can screw themselves beyond belief from their insurance companies when regardless of being the home owner or not, as some jurisdictions still say that's ok. But MANY City charters say NO and have absolutely in no uncertain terms that it is not allowed. That you MUST use a certified electrician who will sign off and some as in the State of Tenn., requires a City Inspector to approve, before use. Some cities, such as Chattanooga, and others have city codes that are far more detailed and additions beyond the NEC. And of course you have to comply.

[@theinternetelectrician]

Tony. I appreciate your input, and of course I have dealt with people that share your viewpoint countless times. I try to only help the DIY'er with simple electrical repairs or projects, and always explain to them that they must see if they are allowed to do the work by way of a homeowner permit. Electrical replacements in kind (change a broken switch or a worn receptacle) do not require a permit in most cases. To deny that people do their own electrical work regardless of what you or I think is to deny the 2 - 4 isles dedicated to electrical and lighting in any home improvement store. I'm only trying to help what is already getting done, get it done correctly and safely. Keep looking on KZbin here and you will find handymen from all walks of life teaching electrical as well. At least I have the training so it's not the blind leading the blind.

[@theinternetelectrician]

Here is a link to my website with more detail on the open neutral issue. www.electrical-online.com/understanding-an-open-or-loaded-neutral/

[@tedlahm5740]

Constructive thought, yes did need to show where the open neutral was. If the neutral was open outside at the entry point, would we get a shock on the unbalanced portion of current, trying to get back to the transformer? thank you as always.

[@jeremiegrund]

@flexmaster And you are free to do so, just understand that your homeowner's policy can put 2 and 2 together and find that a convenient excuse not to pay out your claim. Related... or not.

[@jeremiegrund]

flexmaster I hear ya, people make mistakes though which is why it never usually hurts to have a review done of work. People that don’t understand what they are doing cause problems for the ones smart enough to research

[@ryhanpeacefeather9278]

Helpful info, thanks. I have come across this situation recently. And this is the explanation I have been looking for!

[@theinternetelectrician]

Thanks for watching Ryhan! I appreciate the comment, and I hope that you gave it a 'like', and that you subscribed to my channel!

[@glendavis1266]

Thank you I get it. I had electric shop in HS and was in electronics in Air Force however in my late 70s. Alternatively I could use same wire size as to the present outlet to the heater hookup. The original line is long so there might be some line drop.

[@CORVAIRWILD]

In USA the plastic boxes don't have a ground strap on the screw threads, they should, like Canada, eh?

[@bartmartin161]

i feel sorry for you Terry!... people it was an open Neutral!!.... he doesn't have to show you anything!! just imagine in your head the WHITE WIRES NOT CONNECTED!!.. that's all.. plain and simple.. if there not connected the circuit is open which means its not complete which means with AC you have to have a complete circuit or you will have no light! once he hooke the white wires back up the circuit was complete again.

[@theinternetelectrician]

Thanks for the support!

[@zeus3358]

that why pigtails are good in every box. There's less chance of an open neutral. Also everything beyond that point will keep working properly

[@illestofdemall13]

@@zeus3358 Yes, sir. I also like to pre twist all connections before putting the wire nuts because they will never come apart unless you purposely untwist them.

[@jamieoconnor8692]

Great video. Based on what you explained and some of the public comments, folks, if you are not an electrician, don't play with electricity. Mistakes will ruin your day... At best... I'm 11kV qualified so I do have clue...

[@jbouza09]

Can I tell you thanks for the tips. I hate house wiring !!! I spent 2 days chasing wires on plugs and thankfully I found loose wires and or bad plugs which I replaced. What I didn’t expect was a ground that just fell off the post on a switch that had at least in my mind, nothing to do with the plugs that lost power !!! Blows my mind.

[@billhandymanbill2775]

Nice video but you didn't show the problem!

[@theinternetelectrician]

Bill Handymanbill as I’ve said before here, I could have shown a picture of white wires not spliced together and that would have added to the detailed explanation?

[@rjhoody]

Wish there was a drawing

[@cat-lw6kq]

I agree, does not make sense,

[@theinternetelectrician]

www.electrical-online.com/understanding-an-open-or-loaded-neutral/

[@joecusano]

it does make sense, imagine your neutral disconnected at the panel. 120v rides up the black wire from your panel to the switch, then to your light when in the on position, power goes through the light then down through your neutral but has no where to go, no street neutral and no ground path. this is why ground rods at your meter are a great idea in case your aluminum neutral lets go or a tree takes down your overhead service. it can fry circuit boards and even cause fires in motors. tvs, refrigerators, dishwashers, dvd players, phone chargers, computers, monitors, etc. are all prone to failure in these situations. I've witnessed some pretty bad insurance claims

[@theinternetelectrician]

Thanks Joseph! It does make sense!

[@joecusano]

great job, it does make sense to me, someone who has been doing this for 15+ years, but to someone trying to learn, it may require a diagram or an in depth video on this.

[@steveperry1344]

i used to run across this often when i worked for the power company with a flickering lights call or homes burning out light bulbs. the connectors would sometimes fail at the pole or house or the neutral would break midspan by usually rubbing in a tree or failing underground on a buried cable.

[@PoloniaSD]

I had screw in drywall penetrating cable black with white wires. Lights still were working correctly. I found out this, once replacing switch. Took me whole day to solve the problem.

[@TheJosephoenix]

No solution. Down vote

[@theinternetelectrician]

Sorry Ed, this was only to explain how this situation can happen. The solution is to ensure you have a continuous path for current to flow back to the panel on the grounded conductors (neutrals).

[@charlesmulford169]

Terrible video - He never showed why the problem or how he corrected it.

[@theinternetelectrician]

Charles, as I've pointed out before, I could have showed 2 white wires not connected to each other. The problem is corrected by completing the neutral path as it should be. This is an explanation of how you can get a reading of 120 V on a white wire that should be a neutral, and how an open circuit on the neutral side can cause this.

[@billdenby615]

Grounded or floating neutral. Ha a journeyman electrician (supposedly) almost got me killed by floating a neutral feed into an outer building from the main MCC. Good explanation.

[@robertgift]

Thank you, Peter.

[@markb.1259]

Excellent video... Thank You!

[@adammiller2246]

I had a call that a 5 door refrigerated case was out. In this case were 5- 115v 9watt fan motors. I thought, why would all 5 motors go at one time. Took out my meter and yep, 208 volt going to the motors. Now this circuit was in place for sometime, and there was a renovation going on at this time. So I know this does happen

[@DW-kt8gr]

Hi Terry, My main power comes from my meter to an outside cutoff switch just a few feet away, then travels about 120 yards to my house. My main 200 amp panel in my house has the neutrals and the grounds on the same bar. Doesn't my main panel in the house essentially become a sub panel since the outdoor switch is in place? So should I separate my neutrals and grounds? And do I need to add a ground wire between my outdoor panel and my indoor panel? thanks

[@N_AUD1]

What he's saying is that the neutral is loaded because it is open. The path to "unload" is the neutral path back to the panel, which is bonded to ground. If the bonded/grounded/neutral conductor becomes ungrounded it is then loaded the same as the ungrounded(hot/black) conductors. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[@theinternetelectrician]

You are correct!

[@andrewyek]

hii Terry, thanks for your good info video. i learned something i have one question to ask you, pls. i found a live wire in a switch of ceiling fan, and switch lead to the ceiling fan. i also found a i thought to be neutral wire connected spliced to another wire, in fact it is a load returned neutral.. so my question is, when you see wire in a switches box, how to tell a neutral wire is neutral or load returned neutral ? thanks andrew

[@KnightsForge]

I hope you see this and get back with me, I've recently discovered that my shop wall has up to 116 volts to any grounded material including me... it's an old horse barn with tin walls and roof and concrete floors, I'd like to fix this really soon

[@702ringo1]

Excellent video thank you! ⚡️

[@jonhcontreras]

my.. you explain things well Terry... Thank you so much..

[@theinternetelectrician]

Thanks Jon!

[@carlosbarrera3277]

very good explanation, i think i have that issue at home now, my appliances wont turn on unless the sitch box comes in contact with metal ,

[@aixpert291]

Ha! "Current" topics. Nice! Great video, thank you.

[@b.robles1823]

I have some lamps where the neutral is not connected, but the ground is connected to the neutral wire. The neutrals also have power. I'm about to redo the whole apartment, breaker panel and every outlet. I think we should find the problems tracing everything back to the panel, or who knows? I'm also changing about 12 breakers as well because of the weirdness. I disconnected the neutral to the garage light and it works, so I have to start over.

[@theinternetelectrician]

That needs some serious investigation for sure!

[@jimmayors2315]

I was hoping this video might answer a question about a situation I was having about a voltage drop in a Hot-to-Ground check. I show an open ground on a single receptacle leading to a gfi plug. When I checked the wires, I get good voltage from Hot-to-Neutral, but am showing about a 45 volt drop from Hot-to-Ground. The run is a grey romex under a deck and some parts are buried. It a critter gnawed at the line and got through the insulation, but that cause a partial drop between Hot-and-Ground (showing about 80 VAC on a 120 VAC circuit)?

[@theinternetelectrician]

I would guess you have a high resistance corrosion problem on the grounding path. If you narrow it down to the one run of cable that is partially buried, then you've got a compromised cable. Check connections everywhere you can, if all checks out at the source end, but not at the arrival, then you have to replace that run.

[@jimmayors2315]

@@theinternetelectrician Thanks Terry. I found the problem. The buried run of the romex had a nick in the cover, all the way through into the wires. It looks like there was a voltage leak to ground, which eroded the wires even more (1.5 inches), cauterizing the soil around it in a clay'ish ball. I can't believe the 20 amp breaker didn't trip. The moist ground was acting as a resistor just enough to keep the breaker from detecting a full short. When I tied the hot and ground together at one end, and did a continuity check from the other, there was about 20k Ohms getting through. Same tying the neutral to ground together at one end, checking continuity at the other. Running a new line today.

[@keving1774]

It would be nice to see a video of the neutral and what it is doing inside of the outlet Box

[@sylvesterlogan8048]

Terry, hope you're still there. I have a 34 Volts reading on my neutral wire at the single pole switch. I just watch your video but still unsure what to do bc it's only 34 volts to ground. Thanks.

[@joecochran6343]

Great Example sir thank you

[@leeisenberg]

Thanks for sharing. I've got continuity between all 3 of my hot, neutral, & ground; whats up w/ that?!... thanks

[@theinternetelectrician]

I would have to know the readings you are getting, but with power off to a circuit, unless you have all switches off, everything unplugged, you will see some continuity between hot and neutral and ground. And between neutral and ground (essentially the same), you should have very low or no resistance.

[@Xxxcappie23]

You're the right guy to explain this but I think it would be easier to see if you drew out a circuit and showed a circuit working fine and then one with the open neutral

[@everythingbobbywolfe]

Terry, I've never spoken to anyone that had a great short cut for testing a tripped breaker. For example, there is a circuit that had 8 recepticles switched out. Breaker get turned back on and instant trip. I've never been able to locate the culprit other than going to each one and taking them out to inspect (provided the answer isn't obvious through visual inspection). Any thoughts other than checking every single outlet? Of course, the assumption is each wire was simply put back in original positions.

[@theinternetelectrician]

If all receptacles were connected properly, one possible cause would be that when pushing the device back into the box, a bare ground wire is in direct contact with the hot terminals in one of the outlets. For the breaker to trip instantly like that, you must have a short circuit to ground or neutral. Inspect each device and you will find the problem

[@sam04019491]

To perhaps help explain this another way (I’m from the UK so the terminology may differ, but the principle is the same). To help understand this, first forget the colours and the names of the wires, it is only a human invention to colour code and give the conductors names. We call them Line, Neutral and Earth. In physics, it doesn’t matter what colour they are or what they are called, the electricity just flows. So in this example, with the circuit energised, the electricity was flowing from the board, through the switch, through the lamp, along the neutral and back to the board. The neutral was not connected to earth at the board though, due to the junction boxes (splices) being removed further along in the circuit. So there was no return for the circuit to be complete. In essence, all wires have now become Line. Hence a potential of 120V (230 for single phase in the UK) between Line and Earth. If you touch the “neutral” here, thinking it cannot have a voltage between it and earth, you are in for a shock, as you have now completed the pathway back to earth and are getting electrocuted. I hope this helps. It can be tricky for people to understand at first. That is why in the UK, both the Line and Neutral constructors are classed as “Line” conductors, as in, they carry the electricity in normal operation, and why it is a good idea to use double pole isolators, odd though, as most breakers are only single pole.

[@MichaelBorne-rh8co]

I got 2 15amp receptacles on one circuit at my home. One has power from the breaker(4 wires, 2 white, 2 black and 2 grounds twisted together), it feeds other recep which has 2 wires and ground, 1 white, 1 black. The main recep works perfect, the fed recep only shows ground(119v). When I test the white and black, I got nothing, or really the multi meter shows like 1 or 2 or 0 or goes back and forth between those as I hold leads on white and black. When I hold leads on white and ground it shows 0. When I hold leads on black and ground it shows 119. The main recep from breaker shows 119-120 or so on both of the white/blacks. Ground on both black/ground. 0 on both white/ground tests. I;m able to do this testing on the bare wires as I took both the main recep and the fed recep off walls. It's now bare wires at both outlets, easy for me to test them. I can't figure out why the fed recep does not have anything when testing black/white. Black/ground has the right voltage, white/ground has 0. I put new recep at the main one that feeds the other recep. Didn't fix it. Same prob. At the breakerbox, this circuit's breaker is the only one that has the red test button on the breaker. Prob because these 2 are 15amps and both are on porches(covered porches don't get rained on, but outside nevertheless). The 2 outlets never had and still do not have gfci receps. They never had those type out there. Both of these outlets have always worked fine until about a year ago. This house was built in 1987 or so. It's in SC. I'm just Stumped here. The 2 outlets are on porch's in back and front of house. Porches are covered though. But still, they're outside technically. They both came with the house(not installed by any me or any previous homeowners). That's the trouble shooting and the work I did to try to fix the fed recep at back porch. The power lines don't go under house, in the walls and drop to receps. Man, not sure what to troubleshoot next or what to test, check, etc, at this point. Sucks too. I need that power at back porch's outlet. Could the actual breaker be bad? But then I think why would main recep work fine. Should the receptacles be gfci's? They never have been. They both used to be the older push in type and someone had changed that fed recep, at back porch, sometime before I bought this house about 10 yrs ago to a newer type, not gfci though, and it's worked fine for past 9 years. No mice here, rats, rodents, etc. It's crawlspace, brick, not mobile home, no issude with electrical since I've been here. Clean house. No rot, trash, yard growth, in other words it's just a regular decent house, not anything spectacular but not anything nasty or neglected. That front main recep was the old style still and I just put that newer type recep in it's place to try to back porch to work. In other words I took the one from back porch and replaced old push in style main one on the front, wired all 4 wires to it, left the 2 grounds twisted like they were, to get the old style out of the circuit- still same issue at fed back porch recep! This sucks. Can a whole entire white neutral wire just go bad, like from the main recep to the fed recep? Ughhh! I know I've done the trouble shooting correctly, I know no matter what the balck/white show nothing, the black/ground show 119 or 120 or so, the white/ground show 0.

[@theinternetelectrician]

You have done all you can for trouble-shooting and I don't think you've missed any of the easy fixes for this. you have a bad cable between the receptacles. This could be caused by a number of things. There might be a splice in a junction box somewhere between them? That would be nice because maybe a splice on the neutral is bad inside that junction box, and can be fixed up. The other culprit could be a cable staple or drywall nail or screw that pierced the cable and damaged the neutral conductor. This can happen over time if the conductor was compromised but not severed completely, and eventually it burns apart. Or it could have been something that happened recently? Did you pound any nails in to hang a picture? Any renovations lately that might have resulted in a damaged cable? Anyhow, your only solution if you don't find a junction box and bad splice is to replace that cable and abandon the one that is bad. Could be a challenge with finished walls, etc. Other option would be conduit on the outside from front to back, or a combination of cable fishing and conduit. This circuit is fed by a GFCI breaker, so having regular receptacles at those location is just fine as the protection is at the breaker for the circuit. If your breaker ever failed, a solution is to replace with a regular breaker and change the first receptacle to a GFCI and then feed the next one on the load side terminal of it.

[@MichaelBorne-rh8co]

@@theinternetelectrician, wow. You nailed Terry. Big help too. I really appreciate that you took the time it took to help me! Grateful. I now got it from here, will prob do the line in the conduit on outside in this house's situation. At least i can put new one exactly where i want it now. Man, we can't thank you enough.

[@theinternetelectrician]

@@MichaelBorne-rh8co Happy to have helped! I need a "buy me a beer" button on my website and KZbin Channel!

[@Leon-pe5wg]

Thanks for explaining so clearly.glad to find ur channel

[@gamie123456]

thank you Terry, to the point .

[@chappy1531]

Terry, us men are excited by visual display's whether it be a naked woman or electrical circuitry .. just gives us a better understanding of what were about or need to do .. words alone just leaves too many questions.

[@theinternetelectrician]

I guess I thought video c/w audio is a visual display? Anyhow, I'll try to do better next time!

[@theinternetelectrician]

Thanks Bart!

[@JB-ez2xv]

In the normal situation with the switch on, if ground to switch shows 120, and neutral to ground shows 0, does that suggest that the voltage drops after passing through the bulb filament? If so, why do you still measure 120 (in the second mid-wired part of the video) after current passes through the filament (I.e measuring from neutral to ground). Should’t there still be a voltage drop (if its passing through the filament)? Also if alternating current alternates why doesn’t the neutral become hot for the fraction of time that the polarization changes? Sorry if these are silly questions..I’m new to this Thanks

[@homesculptor]

Okay so I set up a 3 way switch under my home at two entry points to light both sides without having to go to the other door. I think I see what I done. I got the power going to switch one on the black screw, and the two travelers going to to the other switch. I'm not sure if it matter if the travelers are hooked up on the same side, but that's how I hooked them up putting the reds on the side with the black screw, and the black on the other side. The neutrals are tied together, except for one spot where I had too many neutrals, so I think I should have put a jumper on the main neutrals. As it see it in my head now, I have the neutrals for this new circuit most likely not tied to the rest of the house. I was thinking it might be a bad receptical or switch, but I think I just need to get back down there and jumper the neutrals to the house circuit. Thanks! I'll let you know if that worked!

[@homesculptor]

Yup, that was it. I had a cluster of 9 commons, and I didn't pay attention to if it was hooked up to the old circuit. So I added a jumper from the one that wasn't hot, to the ones that were hot, and now none are hot and the lights came instantly! Imagine that!

[@aphil4581]

I got a shock from a white neutral last week replacing a pool pump. Assuming the white wire coming out of the small box on the side of the house near the pumps was neutral. Assuming the pumps were set up for 115. Nope. Somebody made 220 with three wires using the unshielded ground wire for the neutral. They started at the main box from a double breaker with red and black. Now how can I tell if the middle bare wire go's back to a common or a ground?

[@theinternetelectrician]

This is actually quite common, and is OK to do, IF, you identify that white wire as a hot wire wherever it is accessible, like in any junction box, or at the pump. Identify it by using black, red, (or even blue) electrical tape. The bare ground wire in this case is not a neutral. It is just an equipment ground wire. The difference being it does not carry current (intentionally that is, only in a fault condition) 240V loads don't need a neutral, the current is all on the 2 hot wires.

[@elikraft9159]

I know this is old, but you are the only source I found to explain this problem! I was searching for a day and a half trying to figure this out.

[@theinternetelectrician]

Thank-you! Most of the comments are from those still confused so I'm happy to hear from the ones that do understand!

[@VB-bk1lh]

Got a strange one here, had an issue with getting shocked of the meter box, the power co. opened the meter box, told me that the meter box was outdated and at fault because the neutral was not bonded to the box there. They made me install two new ground rods along with the existing plumbing ground inside. While disconnecting the power up top, to replace the meter box, with both hot wires disconnected from the pole, but the neutral still crimped, I went to check continuity to ground at the meter box and blew the fuse in the meter. I then checked voltage, and found I have 117v between the neutral wire from the pole and the meter box itself? Both hot leads from the pole are disconnected, the main is off, yet I got 117v seemingly from the neutral lead from the triplex run from the pole?

[@bravens5232]

Great explanation