Reworking EVERY CHARM In Hollow Knight! | Part 1

[@the_holland]

Thank you so much for all the love in the comments section. I can't express how much it all means to me ❤ For those who have commented about problems with my balance changes (or ideas for brand new ones), just know that I read every comment, and I've been writing a lot of them down! Stay tuned for future parts!

[@PureVoidChaos]

@the_holland you should contact some modders many would be interested

[@williamclancy-jundt118]

Oh interesting, I did not expect the 'writing them down' part. Either way, I'm happy to give feedback.

[@FlinGuSPluNkuS]

Will this be turned into a mod? Or even better, a mod where you can adjust the stats yourself?

[@the_holland]

@@FlinGuSPluNkuS I don't mod, so I can't promise that, sadly :')

[@FlinGuSPluNkuS]

@the_holland I'm sure you could find someone willing to do so, you have really good ideas. I'm not joking when I say this as a mod would singlehandedly get me back into hollow knight, and I'm sure many other players would feel the same. Also, if I were to make the mod myself could I use some of your ideas proposed in the videos? (with credit of course)

[@thematriarch-cyn]

One thing I've noticed is that you're almost purely looking at it through a combat-centric lens. While that does make sense, just remember that Hollow Knight isn't just a fighting game, and thus the balancing shouldn't be entirely focused on combat. That's just a minor nitpick though, and I think your balance change suggestions all make a lot of sense! I'm excited for the next video in the series!

[@the_holland]

Hey, thank you so much, Ma'am! I really appreciate that. And you're totally right. That's why I don't see a problem with charms like Compass and Swarm having no combat use :)

[@imaadhaq540]

@the_holland But also it makes more sense for later charms to be better. You can't just balance soul catcher to be nearly as useful as spell twister

[@the_holland]

See, I don't agree with that. I want every charm to be (more or less) equally useful :)

[@firstfractal515]

​@the_hollandwhilst I do like the balance, having soul catcher be equal to something much later game throws the balancing of boss encounters off

[@the_holland]

I don't quite understand?

[@Reretoha]

Shaman stone: Just big spells... Ok..??? Grubberfly's elegy: I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING

[@the_holland]

😎 Elegy Squad Pull Up 😎

[@меффин]

PROVOKING BLACK CLOUDS IN ISOLATION

[@Chamoi17]

I think grubberfly’s should lose range with every mask lost as well

[@the_holland]

That's a pretty interesting idea, Chamoi. I could see it getting a little hard to "keep track" of how far you could shoot if the distance kept changing, but I still think that's a cool idea!

[@kaico5265]

@the_holland Hey! Loved the video. Another thing about grubberfly’s, I thought that making the beam have knockback was a bad idea, I feel like that would defeat the purpose of longnail and mark of pride individually

[@anonymouscrouton7726]

@kaico5265 tbf they both would maintain full damage unlike grubberfly, while not being subject to damage losses

[@kaico5265]

@@anonymouscrouton7726 Yeah I guess that makes sense

[@somebody4094]

​@the_holland it could be that the light weakens as the wearer also weakens so the range of the slash decreases until it disappears (the amulet deactivates) after a certain amount of damage it could be a 20% reduction, so with five damaged masks the effect is deactivated or 25% etch depending on how you prefer to balance it

[@LolO36675]

10:35 given the stage of the game you can get sprint master in, you will already have a dash and likely have crystal dash, so there aren't any new aerial skips that are possible.

[@the_holland]

That's a really good point... don't you only get it after finding Sly's key or something?

[@LolO36675]

@the_holland yup, and the key is in in the crystal peaks, so moving vast horizontal distances are not really game breaking after that.

[@the_holland]

I've saved your point in my folder, thank you so much for making it. I'll probably make a follow-up at some point to address issues like this one

[@PruthvirajShinde-pf3eg]

@the_holland , I would also like to add the fact that mostly, atleast in my case, sprintmaster is used with dashmaster due to their combination effect. Thus, even increasing sprintmaster, might break the numbers for combined effect as it's actually quite fast. But yes, being that late in game, dash itself is sufficient. But I would like to say I do sometimes use this combo in boss fights, and extra walking speed saves me, allowing me to save shade cloak for emergency at next second.

[@the_holland]

@@PruthvirajShinde-pf3eg Fair point :)

[@sharpfang]

I'll also add, Thorns of Agony: either don't freeze you when it activates, or extend the invulnerability frames by duration of the freeze. As it stands now, it can almost stun-lock you within a larger enemy, most of your invulnerability elapsed while frozen.

[@the_holland]

I've thought about something similar, so I definitely agree with you there!

[@Davi-zo4lu]

0:42 "Were simply far weaker than the selected power houses" *highlights Grimm Child

[@ABS0LUTERAD1ANCE]

Grimmchild bad Shape of Unn good

[@reedlewis2968]

Yeah that was genuinely an insane moment. I had to rewatch that section since my brain just automatically assumed someone saying a charm in the bottom right is good must have been talking about melody

[@auh4806]

Its either melody or a meme. Which imo melody isnt really THAT much of a powerhouse, but its debatable.

[@reedlewis2968]

@@auh4806 yeah. It's not like overpowered or anything. At least in most situations. It can be great for some stuff

[@the_holland]

There will be NO SPEAKING DOWN TO GRIMMCHILD in this comment section! Shame on you all! 😡

[@shiny2575]

"I want to make every charm powerful and worth using" "Wayward compass is useless. I will be making no changes"

[@the_holland]

Haha ;D I didn't say it was useless! But I guess you got me, it isn't really worth using in the late game. I'm making a very special exception for that one, though, as it just fits so well into the game!

[@lml55]

@the_holland I think a good change would be to make it so it points you in the direction of your lost Shade upon death, would give a reason to use it in end game, even if its to plop it on to quickly figure it out (Shade Spawns in some weird places, and in bigger areas like the Void and the Hive it can be a genuine fucking nightmare sometimes XD)

[@TlalocTemporal]

I don't think that's a big issue though, as Wayward Compass is an Exploration charm, and you don't explore much once you learn the map. Perhaps a second use for finding secrets, maybe it gets upgraded by World Sense?

[@TheFlamingSlayer]

Does the most op charm really need more buffs?

[@shiny2575]

@@TlalocTemporal i didnt say theres a problem with keeping it the same, i agree its a great design. I am, however, pointing out they DIDNT make it powerful and worth using (for experienced players)

[@interguy5846]

4:28 I believe Stalwart Shell shouldn't block a hit if that hit would have killed you. Not only does this keep the spirit of Radiant boss fights, but the game does have a whole fancy effect when you're at one HP, and I feel that the reworked Stalwart Shell would ruin the spirit of that.

[@the_holland]

Can Carefree Melody block damage when you're at one health? I don't actually know. I think that's a good point, and it would save Radiant fights as you mention. Probably should then also be applied to Melody, if that charm is already capable of saving you at one mask. Or maybe it just shouldn't work for Radiant fights :) Thanks for the comment!

[@waver5914]

If my memory serves me right it CAN block radiant so yeah. In my opinion it should cost three notches and just disable the knock back and decrease the damage by one mask (can't go any lower than one mask tho) and invisibility increase by half a second should stay.

[@thefrostwizardgamer1555]

​@@waver5914also if you can't reduce damage give it a slight effect like more knock back resistance

[@waver5914]

@ Didn't I wrote about knock back thing?

[@wdgadd9999]

Idea: dreamshield + dream wielder = DOUBLE SHIELD (also bigger than the regular one)

[@the_holland]

I like it!

[@unavailableun]

You become Markoth basically

[@the_holland]

Now who'd want to do that :I

[@genio2509]

​@the_hollandglowing womb idea: now does 99 damage, takes 1 soul, and has splash, the interaction with crest no longer reduces impact damage. 1 notch I know it'll still be garbage, but maybe enough to kick it off the F tier

[@the_holland]

I like it, although the Soul cost has got to be the most annoying thing about it D:

[@shadowflame3543]

It would be interesting if the synergy of Grubberfly's Elegy and Fury of the Fallen reversed the order of your buff, i.e. at 1 mask its at full power and loses power the more masks you have, course its full power will be higher than without the synergy

[@the_holland]

That's a super interesting idea, Shadowflame! I'm writing that down just in case...

[@jkingsoul5115]

So say like, fury + elegy is the pre-rework 50%, while rework elegy is 70%. I mean...given fury is a flat 75% increase to damage, it's still a...technically better option.

[@Nikola_M]

@the_holland Also, your health shouldn't regenerate from benches and such when having FotF equipped, and when dying you respawn with 1 mask

[@jkingsoul5115]

Overall disagree.

[@jrbabs6576]

I genuinely thought this video would have had at least 20k views, this is incredible quality lol edit: ok lol damn it blew up fast xddd

[@Optic_BliSS]

FR!!!

[@S1nnergy]

soon. it’s a young channel 🔥

[@the_holland]

Wow, I really appreciate the kind words

[@Optic_BliSS]

@the_holland ITS TRUE THO!!!

[@the_holland]

@Optic_BliSS YOU'RE TOO KIND!!!

[@Skywolve1998]

It's worth noting that comparing a reduction in cost and an increase in income isn't 1:1. A simple way to explain it is that a 50% decrease in cost is equivalent to a 100% increase in income, because both would lead to double the spells casts. Ultimately you have to divide 1 by either the remaining cost or the new income % to find it's matching counterpart. 1 charm slot for 18% isn't actually that bad in this case since a 33% reduction in cost leads to a 50% increase in efficiency. Half of that would be 25%, but Soul Catcher's all around status warrants the 6% reductions. It's also worth noting that charms don't exist in a vacuum. Soul Catcher and Soul Eater having less of a combined cost can make running both more viable, but also they both interact with spell twister multiplicatively, which might affect their power level and spell twisters.

[@the_holland]

Well, for Soul Catcher, I halved the notch cost as well as the updated effect - 1 notch for 2 Soul per hit or 2 notches for 4 Soul per hit. I think that's got the math right :) Sorry for being bothersome, but I'm sure Soul Catcher and Soul Eater interact multiplicatively. At least, I've never heard anyone make that claim. Are you absolutely sure that one takes into account the other? Thanks for the comment!

[@erierierierierie]

@the_holland they said catcher and eater interact with twister multiplicatively, which is true. i think you misread that.

[@ChosenOne2524]

11:49 makes sense, but I'm pretty sure the charm is like that cuz it's a reference to the master sword beam in legend of zelda. giving it functionality after not being at full hp removes that reference, so I'd just reduce the charm cost to 1 and call it a day.

[@the_holland]

I'd heard some people mention that, and I either didn't know it was a reference or had completely forgotten. I still probably prefer my change just because I'd ascribe more value to gameplay rather than reference, but I totally get your point :)

[@cloker9569]

this video is pretty cool however I would really love to see you consider synergies as a possible attempt to buff charms. an example I can think of is perhaps Dashmaster could decrease the cooldown of shade cloak with sharp shade so you could utilize the damage and s more. perhaps quick nail + nailmaster glory could reduce the cooldown even further? so many ideas that could stem from synergies which would be super cool to see

[@the_holland]

Thanks! Yeah, I think that's a great idea, Cloker! Funnily enough, I've thought about that very same interaction between Dash Master and Shade Soul before; it just didn't make it into the video. I'm really glad you gave that suggestion, and I'll try to see if I can incorporate some of those into future parts of the series! PS: in the section about Grubberfly's Elegy, I do actually comment on how interactions with Longnail and Mark of Pride should be buffed! Thanks a ton for the comment!

[@obitosenju3768]

That was my idea too

[@cloker9569]

@the_holland ahhh right i forgot about that part. i agree it does feel like grubberfly's projectile should go more distance because the hitbox is bigger. also will you be considering kingsoul charm? even though it has pretty limited use, the actual ability was decent despite costing 5 notches

[@the_holland]

@ I will definitely be considering Kingsoul! As a matter of fact, I really want it to be usable post-void heart! (which will require a special solution)

[@jkingsoul5115]

Maybe thorns and spores should have an interaction if they don't? There's just quite a few charms that feel weird to not have special interactions for.

[@pantheong1455]

No don’t do that to gathering swarm!!! We can’t do no geo challenge runs anymore Ideas: Dash Master could also reduce shadow dash cooldown if it wants to stay at 2 notches - just saw this in a few other comments, sorry guys, didn’t mean to copy

[@the_holland]

Damn, that's actually a really good point! I didn't think about the challenge runs - perhaps it should be a toggleable option in the settings ':D

[@slenderMax28]

the only no-geo challenge that uses Gathering Swarm is the TAS, and the fact that's it's possible just shows that the charm needs fixing

[@the_holland]

Haha xd

[@Adir-Yosef]

why would you equip gathering swarm in a no geo run in the first place?

[@pantheong1455]

@@slenderMax28 but it’s fun to see nonetheless and it wouldn’t have existed otherwise, I guess you’re right though and i misremembered what I had seen

[@uriel00000]

An idea I had, is that for Void Heart, you could use it to equip any charm, no matter the cost, onto it, allowing a free charm basically. HOWEVER, it halves or reduces the effects of the chosen charm as a way to balance it. For example: Putting Mark of Pride on Void Heart would halve its range, Soul Eater would give half as much Soul, and Strength would only be a 1.2x damage for the nail.

[@the_holland]

I think that's pretty creative! Haha, now I'm thinking it could alternatively let you duplicate one charm, like Imitator from PvZ!

[@uriel00000]

@ Exactly!

[@the_holland]

Damn! I wrote it down in my ideas-folder :D

[@neuralstrings8015]

”Grubsong gives soul for each mask lost" The potent grubsong+deep focus+shape of unn combo: (you need 33 soul to heal one mask normally, deep focus halves this cost, grubsong provides 15 soul per hit, unn provides a lot more opportunity to heal) It's practically a cheat card against one mask bosses, as you can basically outheal all damage dealt to you. The only thing that limited it was two hit bosses and ascended, still, I was able to use this combo (+strength and thorns since I had 4 notches left) to beat all bosses on ascended. With this buff...I think that would be much, much easier.

[@the_holland]

Cool! I think healing builds need a reason to surge

[@neuralstrings8015]

@ the stawart shell change: also, fun fact about deep focus, not only does it halfs the soul cost, it also decreases the time taken to heal. Basically, the time taken to heal two masks separatedly without deep focus is longer than healing it with deep focus. This is especially noticeable between radiance's p1 and p2, where you can heal noticeably faster and spend much less soul.

[@the_holland]

@ Well, that's one way to look at it I guess - but in terms of the single heal, the time is increased

[@neuralstrings8015]

@ well, it's just a bonus other than the soul cost decrease, the main effect. Still, the single heal is worth twice the normal heal, I'd call it efficient.

[@the_holland]

Sure it's more efficient, the main problem (I think) is how hard the charm makes it to fit in heals between tight attack patterns. Also at the cost of 4 notches. But if it works for you, go for it!

[@dylanlikesdolphins]

Changing Grubberfly's Elegy like that kinda removes the Zelda reference a bit, but it does sound a lot better

[@the_holland]

Yeah you're right, I'm sorry about that :')

[@salsalvador3354]

Grubsong also allows weaverlings from weaversong to give the player a small amount of soul every time they hit an enemy

[@the_holland]

That's true! I believe I decided to mention that in the upcoming video about Weaverlings, but I'm glad you pointed it out anyway :D

[@alikaanbalaban985]

There is a fix that's been on my mind for a while. Hive Blood restores amount of mask lost istead of just one. That way it would get a niche use against bosses that deals two masks of damage. Also the four notch cost would be justifiable considering you can heal the doubled damage when you're overcharmed

[@the_holland]

Hey, I kinda like that actually. Cool idea!

[@erierierierierie]

a bit of an oversight - since you want to overcharm with your most expensive charm, overcharming with hiveblood just makes you take two damage in the first place, and then it acts the same as normal except normal healing takes twice as long and twice as much soul

[@sebastienrodin8329]

Grubsong needs 8 seconds of bleed

[@the_holland]

Yes

[@Orion_Mr.Starlight]

As long as shaman keeps the bigger spells. I will not have my double fireball hit taken from me.

[@the_holland]

It definitely should! That's an awesome part of the charm :D

[@aethous9163]

Dashmaster debate: IT'S SANS!! NO IT'S NOT!! Meanwhile Me: Sprintmaster looks like Jack Skellington, nice

[@the_holland]

O_O This guy, this guy gets it.

[@FirethornYT]

Maybe Soul Catcher should start with +2 Soul per hit, and then each Soul Vessel they get add 1 to that. The only problem with this is that it makes Soul Eater mostly pointless, but if Soul Eater starts at 7 and gets boosted by 1 every soul vessel, then it would be perfect. With this, it keeps the double cost/double reward system, and makes them more useful and rewards you for exploration

[@the_holland]

You know what, that's actually a really interesting and cool idea! I kind of like that Soul Catcher could get stronger over the course of the game, ending up as a pretty strong charm in the late-game. I'm saving that thought!

[@oshirothebubble]

Oen thing that most people say when they see my p5 charm build is "Why do you use sprintmaster?". And, I wanna say to them that it is the 3rd best 1 notch charm. All you do is go faster which really helps you with fast bosses like soul tyrant and the final trio of bosses(nkg, pv, absrad). Just wanted to say this. Also, wayward compass should be nerfed to cost 22 notches

[@the_holland]

You know, I can definitely see that argument in favour of Sprintmaster - some people seem to really enjoy using it, and I totally respect that! Overcharming just to be able to navigate around the map 💀 I like it 👍👍

[@oshirothebubble]

@the_holland sprintmaster is a very underrated charm. I used it since I beat pv for the first time. My p5 charm build is this btw: strength, qslash, shaman, sbody, sprintmaster. Helps against every boss. You can pretty much bully everyone with it.

[@the_holland]

@oshirothebubble Well dang, if it works for you, maybe I should try it on my next P5 run!

[@SomeCowguy]

Basically my build except shaman instead of MoP, just ridiculously strong and reliable on every boss​@oshirothebubble

[@silentchips1379]

I don’t really like sprint master for bosses because I’m too used to regular walking speed so might as well stick to that and keep the notch spot for something else

[@baaltas]

I would make dashmaster not have a 1 charm notch cost. But instead give it an additional passive that recharges shade cloak dash faster which could make it slightly better.

[@the_holland]

A lot of people seem to think that, and I'm definitely not opposed!

[@GarryDumblowski]

...why do I feel like it already did this?

[@the_holland]

@ What?

[@GarryDumblowski]

@the_holland I dunno, it happens sometimes. I guess it's clearly a good idea if I thought "no way they didn't implement this"

[@keepwatching-ane]

i love how grimmchild is apparently a powerhouse now

[@the_holland]

You almost sound... surprised 🤔

[@tgamagedon]

I also think the compass is a charm, so that people are forced to use the system early on and get used to paying attention to it.

[@the_holland]

I think that's a good point

[@Molotover]

The quality of this video is seriously impressive, I was astounded to see the channel at below a thousand subscribers! I am immensely interested in seeing the whole series, keep it up

[@the_holland]

Gosh, I seriously don't know what to say. That really means the world to me, Molotover. Thank you so much.

[@ABS0LUTERAD1ANCE]

The stalwart shell change made me think of carefree melody. It makes it better than carefree melody in nearly any case (wait vs rng). Maybe carefree melody would cost 2 notches and dodge every 4th attack, so like: damage, damage, damage, dodge, damage, damage, damage, dodge, so on And I'm looking forward to the rest of this series!

[@the_holland]

Yeah, I did make Stalwart Shell kind of similar to Melody. Making it cost less is actually a really good idea, maybe I should keep that... Thanks for the comment!

[@sandjgaez257]

I feel like simply nerfing the Shaman stone’s damage would probably disrupt the game balance. The problem is that spell builds rely on Shaman stone at their core as the only real damage boost, putting the charm in an uncomfortable situation where it is overpowered in the early game since it needs to keep pace with endgame nail builds. Nerfing the effects of Shaman stone for the sake of the early game would make spell builds unviable in the endgame. Instead, I suggest breaking the Shaman stone into two two-notch charms (the second being found later in the game), each one providing half (or slightly more) of the current charm’s power. This would allow spells to be better paced in terms of power throughout the game without sacrificing their endgame potential.

[@the_holland]

See, I respectfully disagree with your proposed solution. I don't like charms as a progression system, and I promise you that I'll be nerfing nail-centered charms in later videos to make up for the nerf to Shaman Stone. I want to shake up the meta, and to do that, Shaman Stone has to be weaker in all stages of the game.

[@lml55]

@the_holland I see your point, but also you could simply bring everything up to Shaman stones level instead of nerfing it. Just a smol suggestion

[@the_holland]

I could've, but I chose to balance things around Spell Twister instead :)

[@BigDBrian]

Something important to take into account is that percentage reduction scales differently compared to percentage increases. To match a cost reduction of 33% you actually need to increase your gain by 50%. By the way, correction in the video, spell twister reduces cost from 33 to 24, which is a 27% decrease. Conversely, this means every SOUL you get is effectively worth 37.5% more. Because of this mismatch, you cannot compare %s side by side so easily. -33% is not "6% better" than +27%. For small numbers it's close enough, but as you get larger it gets more and more off. A 50% reduction is WAY stronger than a 50% increase. To match a halving, you need a doubling, i.e. a 100% increase. To match a 90% reduction, you would require a 900% increase.

[@the_holland]

Yep, you're totally right. I screwed up the math.

[@osobatalentu6944]

It is really nice to finally see someone doing charm balancing video on hollow knight. That being said I disagree with some points: - I am not sure if putting Spell Twister as the baseline is good idea, becasue this charm is one of the stronger ones that could get a slight nerf. It was supposed to be charm that's better for good players that don't need to focus on healing and use mostly spells, but it gives too much and it's great for spells and good for heals. You can have 8 spells or 6 heals with this charm. In theory it is more beneficial that Soul Catcher on the maing vessel if you use 3 spells for every 1 heal and for the extra vessels it is 9 spells for every 1 heal, but because vessels don't store infinite amount of soul it doesn't really matter. So I think it could be nerfed by having 1 less soul from hitting enemies. - I completely agree with what you said about Wayward Compass. I also force you to use it, so you need to change charms for the exploration and because of that you can have more opportunities to use diffrent charms. - It is a small change for Gathering Swarm, but I would be so good qol change for the players. - Your idea for Stalwart Shell rework is nice, but the issue is that we kinda already have too many health charms. Also it blocks dmg, so it would work in radiant fights, that's how block works in this game. - Soul Catcher is for both healing and using spells, that's why players that played this game for long will not use it and they would use Spell Twister instead. I don't think it's underpowered, but it feels that way. The changes you propose have some issues with other charms. The first one would mean that Soul Eater should give at least 13 soul, because the higher cost charms are supposed to be more efficient and that would be overpovered, meanwhile making it 1 notch and giving only 2 soul is also not good idea, because it would be completely overshadowed by grubsong, that you also buffed. I think this charm doesn't need changes. - Shaman Stone should give smaller dmg bonus, but making it all 25% would be really bad for abyss shriek and descending dark, it wouldn't be that bad for shade soul, because it's already doesn't deal that much dmg, but with shaman stone it can easily double hit enemies. For shriek and descending dark it would be better to give 35% more dmg, not 25%. - Soul Eater is really good charm and it doesn't need to be stronger. You can use spells or heals in less than 2 hits. Also the reason why I think some charms cost 4 charm notches is because every single one of them could break the game balance, that's why team cherry was really harsher on them. - Dashmaster is charm you don't really need, but it is fine to have it. So making it 1 notch isn't that bad. - I don't like Sprintmaster, because when you jump you feel a lot slower, so for me this isn't really that good change. - Grubsong is already one of the best charms in the game and I can see why some people see why it should be in S tier. That being said I think it should be nerfed, because it gives 15 extra soul for free, you would need to get 5 hits with catcher to get the same extra amount. Also the synergy with Grubbersfly's Elegy is broken, you can have infinite healing with it and deep focus. So I think it should give 13 soul on hit and 20 with Grubberfly's Elegy. Now that I am thinking, you could give both the nerfs and the buff you suggested. - Grubberfly's Elegy is strange charm for me. I really don't like using it, because it feels just bad and i don't know how to change that.

[@the_holland]

I totally agree that we need more charm-balancing videos! That's why I had to make this one. I read all of your proposes, and while I do disagree with most of them, I think you make some good points. Here are the ones I liked the most: 1. Grubsong is really good already, and so I do agree that it's dangerous to buff. 2. Letting Shaman Stone grant a 35% damage boost to Shriek and DDark might be the way to go. 3. Wayward compass giving you a chance to change your build when you have to put it on and off is such a genius thing to notice - I never thought about it that way! That's damn clever, man. 4. Stalwart shell is the change I was the least comfortable with suggesting, so it probably deserves heavy critique. Thanks a ton for the comment!

[@Schenkel101]

The problem with the first Soul Catcher rebalance is that the 2 extra Soul falls just short of gathering 66 Soul (the threshold for 2 spells/focus) in 5 hits, meaning you often only benefit from it when you get to the 99 Soul threshold in 8 hits instead of 9. I prefer the second one, which actually puts you over the threshold of 99 Soul in 7 hits. I honestly don't mind it giving a little less soul for your buck, compared to Spell Twister, because unlike Twister, it also impacts your healing. The Soul Eater on the other hand, doesn't get its first 3 thresholds (2/4/6 hits) afected by the nerf to 7 extra Soul, so I definitely prefer the 3 notch option. Shaman Stone is definitely overpowered, but I am biased because I run the meta "number go up" combat charms, and I think 30% would be a better compromise. It would still nerf all spells, but it would also still reward you with big damage for its 3 notches, and wouldn't tank the pure damage of Shriek quite as hard. Alternatively, I wish it stopped Shriek from doing horizontal knockback because it's unpredictable and hella annoying, but that's just my peeve.

[@the_holland]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts :)

[@TheNotSoGreat1]

I’m excited for the next parts where you’ll cover some controversial charms like the “pets” and defensive charms

[@the_holland]

I'm so glad you're excited about that! So am I! It'll be interesting to see how I break those too 😆

[@TheNotSoGreat1]

@the_holland Honestly, you deserve a lot more attention and I'm sure it'll come soon enough

[@the_holland]

You're too kind, too kind!

[@cawareyoudoin7379]

Funny how experienced players have a different view of the charms. When I was first exploring, I kept getting hit, so thorns of agony was my favourite charm haha! Now it's sharp shadow. If you buff sharp shadow, I will never take it off.

[@the_holland]

That's pretty funny, I've never heard someone talk positively about thorns ;D - but I think it's great to just pick up what works for you! Screw the meta

[@cawareyoudoin7379]

@the_holland Yeah. I don't like optimizing the fun out of a game - and hey, if I can get to AbsRad with my build, then it clearly works for me! (Sharp shadow+quickslash+strength+grubsong+either dashmaster or heart).

[@the_holland]

Dude, I love Shard Shadow too, even if it isn't the best charm ever - it's just so much fun!!

[@cawareyoudoin7379]

@the_holland what even is "the best" charm? There are ones that the community decided are the "optimal" ones, but what if someone doesn't like using spells that much, for example? Charms should encourage different types of gameplay, suited to the player, and balancing them could help alleviate that gap between "basically useless" and "only ones worth using".

[@the_holland]

Agreed :)

[@cooperhumphries7771]

Honestly, I can understand some of the charms, but I feel like Team Cherry knew what they were doing when designing MOST of the charms. Shaman Stone is really powerful, agreed, but it comes at a high price of 3 notches, and by the time new players get it, they would still possibly have the base of four notches if they didn’t use guides or just run strait to the new areas after they get the item for that area, and if they did they could get a extra charm notch from shroomal ogres. Shaman Stone makes it so that new players only have one notch left, and they would probably use it for wayward compass. I under stand that this charm seems stronger than all others, but there is a reason! Each player has a different preference of charms, and newer players would say that wayward compass is there favorite, while veteran players would say *insert charm here cause I’m kind of a newbie😂* Also, just wanted to say that this isn’t hate or anything on that video, which by the way, it’s a fantastic video! I just kinda had an idea, started typing this out, and I kinda lost steam while typing, so if it is hard to follow, it’s because of that and also that I’m typing on a phone. If anyone could word what I’m trying to say better that would be super useful! Also… Glowing womb, Grimmchild, and glowing womb+ defenders crest = stinky bomb that leads to certain doom in fog canyon.

[@the_holland]

Hi Cooper, thanks a ton for the comment! I think I understand what you're saying, and I'm definitely not taking your comment as hate, but thank you for clarifying anyway - that's very sweet of you :) I guess a big part of what I want to do with these reworks is specifically tailor to players with hundreds of hours in the game. Even in the late game, I'd love to see multiple different builds take the spotlight! Thanks again for the comment!

[@mikoajciemiega8018]

Grimmchild is the best charm in the entire game and you cant prove me wrong

[@the_holland]

FINALLY SOMEONE GETS IT, jeez

[@Laezar1]

I'm not too convinced by most of your changes but I actually love the grubberfly elegy one cause it also makes the synergy with fury of the fallen more usable as the in between state isn't as awkward.

[@the_holland]

Very true!

[@aGamerInTraining]

Concept: Grubsong gives you soul if you are near a projectile, enemy, or something that can hurt you in general, like in Deltarune I honestly rarely notice the soul gain when getting hit with grubsong, plus it's basically useless on radiant bosses, so this change would make it better imo. Best part is, it's still very similar. With the original, you get soul when getting hit. With this concept, you get less soul but you can (barely) avoid getting hurt. I think it would be great cause you still get rewarded when in danger but you can also play risky and stand next to everything and get rewarded for it :D

[@the_holland]

I think that's a pretty cool idea :)

[@purevessle2641]

Idea to make dash master more combat friendly: make it increase the speed of the dash itself. Many cases while fighting larger bosses (especially PV) i have an issue where i am too far away to strike, but too close to dash without taking contact damage, this is usually after dashing once, as bosses dont often move too far away from the knight, so if i can close that distance in less time i might be able to turn one hit into 2, or 3 with quick slash. This would also make the delay between dashes (after a dash ends and before a new dash can be done) a little larger

[@the_holland]

What a really fun and cool idea, Purevessel! I love it!

[@CatShapedDonut]

Sprint master is actually one of my favorites and air speed would go a long way to make it even better, if you want you can turn it into some kinda ninja charm and make the fall speed also higher to compensate and stop early skips

[@the_holland]

Huh, that's a pretty clever fix actually. Cool!

[@pokepato8869]

Amazing quality also I LOVE the change you made to grubberfly's elegy I would love that getting implemented

[@the_holland]

Wow man, you're too kind! And I'm so glad you agree!

[@drakath5727]

I want to point out that reducing the cost of dashmaster only further renders sprintmaster unviable as you get dashmaster before sprintmaster in standard progression. Sprintmaster is already having to compete with the existence of dash outright negating its utility, so making dashmaster cost 1 notch just makes sprintmaster even less worth choosing. I'd recommend instead to have it let you dash once horizontally and once downward before landing, that way the downward dash has more chances to be useful in combat.

[@the_holland]

You make a fine point

[@GoldenGlaive-20]

This is amazing, love ur content. I got into hollow knight bc of you and your videos, and just recently beat Path of Pain and Pantheon 5. I only got 2 achievements left to do, thank you so much, this vid is so underatted im going to send it to my friends and family!

[@the_holland]

That's absolutely unbelievable, wow! What an amazing honour to have gotten someone into this wonderful game, and congrats on beating PoP and P5!! Holy crap you must've done that quickly, I did P5 only after like a year of playing! Thank you so much for your comment!

[@abyssdaddy2281]

About the swarm. I would add to it the property of increasing the received geo by about 10-15%, since otherwise this charm does nothing useful except for getting very rare coins that fell on the spikes and saving a few seconds when moving to another room. Sprint Master has two big problems. 1) it changes the character's speed, which breaks muscle memory when trying to dodge attacks and in platforming sections. 2) 99% of the distance is covered with a dash and a crystal heartAs a solution, you can apply its accelerations to it as well.

[@the_holland]

Thanks for the suggestions :)

[@simonpugh3731]

One synergy with grubberflys ellegy is if fury of the fallen, I am not sure how you had planned on changing that one but its very fun to put both them on, get to one mask then you swing with red beams which do some extra damage. It is just a cool synergy that keeping would be nice.

[@the_holland]

Totally! I'll definitely try to mention that synergy when talking about Fury!

[@TurtleKid603]

grubberflies elegy should give 50% the soul of a nail swing

[@the_holland]

I tend to agree with that!

[@blober9994]

There is another sagnificant problem of gruberfly elegy, it does not give you soul if you hit an enemy with energy beam. How would it be fixed?

[@Meiyu1]

No. Just no. Hollow Knight WON'T be a shooter game at which you only spam Grubberfly Elegy's attacks and Vengeful Spirits. It's better to leave this downside.

[@the_holland]

I think it's a good point, Blober! Sure, you have to account for balance and all, but I do find it kind of boring that you don't gain any Soul when utilizing Elegy! And Meiyu, I also get what you're saying

[@lml55]

@the_holland you could give it Soul Falloff, like Damage Falloff but for how much soul you gain?

[@the_holland]

What's damage falloff in Hollow Knight?

[@lml55]

@the_holland I meant like how in TF2 your bullets gave damage falloff to prevent camping, like the further away you hit something the less overall damage you do. I was thinking Grubfly could have its soul gain on that system, where the farther away the slash gets from you, the less soul it will give you upon hitting an enemy (capping at 1 soul), the range could be increased with things like like Soul Catcher (as that increase the amount of soul you get, so the falloff would be lesser making a fun synergy)

[@erierierierierie]

(extremely experienced godhome player here, this comment is written mostly with the context of godhome in mind because accounting for other scenarios means accounting for a dozens hour long nonlinear game and speedruns, not my experience.) 1. stalwart shell. as it is, actually does a lot. it has a synergy with quick focus which allows you to heal during s and be able to escape. this way, you can easily cheese 1 damage (and most 2dmg) bosses if you dont like the fight, which is perfectly fine given the balance of charms in the game imo. the playstyle it encourages being bad is subjective of course, but the way i look at (assuming no quick focus), your health is a resource, and stalwart makes it more effective. you can get in several more hits and still have time to dive, for example. your change keeps the spirit of the charm while making it an objectively better carefree melody (based). that's a pretty good solution i think, but very overtuned. i would probably remove the increased s, as essentially not taking a hit pretty often (up to probably 4 times in a fight best case scenario by an inexperienced player) should be enough. 2. soul catcher. soul catcher is relatively bad because it's meant to be replaced, but whatever, that's not the point of this comment. adding more soul is fine, but solution b is especially nice because it fits well on the 3-3-3-1-1 notch builds, or 3-3-3-1-4/3 (when overcharming) this makes it a useful charm in almost all postgame scenarios, vs pretty much every other 1 notch charm which is niche. i like this. 3. shamans is already pretty balanced. in earlygame, it's very powerful but requires a resource you need for healing. in lategame, when you have much more of that resource, it balances your spells to the level of your nail. in fact, shamans shriek (max dps) is slightly less dps than quickslash+strength nail. i think shamans is one of the most balanced charms in the game by default (whatever that means). i don't like the change. 4. a. 4 notch charms in balancing are pretty damn cool i think. they replace one of the meta 3-notch charms as well as one of your waste charms (steady body, wayward, etc). this puts them in a position similar to fury where it's meant for speedrunners hyper-optimizing their stuff. that's cool. b. if overcharming is hard to balance for, change overcharming, not the charms. i think eater is already balanced, and adding even more soul... does kinda nothing? you're rarely running out of soul when you use eater, assuming you're not playing hyper defensively. but the buff is nice anyways. making it cost 3 notches makes it more common but also more niche, just an obvious addition to any soul build rather than a skill based choice for overcharming or radisnt fights. 5. dashmaster is uncommon in combat because it's underrated, rather than being bad. downdashing is soooo good and people haven't figured it out yet. modern day dashmaster is comparable to 2019(?) steady body: slept on goat. the buff is appreciated though, it doesn't need to be 2 notches. 6. sprintmaster would absolutely not break the game. you need the shopkeypers key to aquire it, which means going far into crystal peak, which requires quite a lot of gear on a normal playthrough. making it work midair is fine. 7. grubsong change is whatever. i don't have any notes. 1 notch charms are never essential parts of your build in combat. 8. elegy has a lot of problems. it requires max hp, deals less damage than your nail, doesn't give you soul. the change you make is very interesting. i think making it lose damage at all is such a strange decision, but the extra pogo bit is kinda funky (good). mark of pride is already bad for some parts of platforming because you can pogo too high into spikes. i think if you want to keep the damage reduction and pogoing (the most interesting parts i think), you should make it deal 0% nail damage + 10% additional (additively) for every mask you have. (and then maybe +5% for every mask past 9?) it won't get that much use i think, but it'll have crazy synergy with health charms while making you not want to take damage and enabling that playstyle at the same time, at the cost of a significant amount of your charm notches. this is probably way too powerful now that i think about it, but it's fun im sorry if this comment sounds harsh, it's not meant to be. your video seems very well thought through, and the changes are different from most similar discussions about this topic at the same time. i liked it a lot. thank you.

[@neuralstrings8015]

Saying shaman stone isn't broken in combat since it's equal with nail charms is like saying bringing a gun to a knife fight isn't unfair because you could have brought assualt rifles. This video is balancing all charms to around spell twister power level, which I believe to be a good benchmark.

[@the_holland]

One of my favourite comments right here. I can really tell you know you stuff, and you're being very courteous about your disagreements. I didn't get the impression that you were trying to be harsh at all :) A lot to comment on, so I suppose I can't touch on everything. Most of the things you say I agree on, and even those I don't, you've clearly still thought through. a) Stalwart Shell, I think, encourages tanking, which I don't like. But I must admit that the way you described it, using it to heal, feels more clever than just using it to soak up damage without engaging with the boss. I like that. b) Shaman Stone being balanced or not, I would say, is a matter of where you set the bar. I've set it below Shaman Stone, or at least I can say that if you'd agree with me that charms like Soul Catcher are overall weaker than Shaman Stone. That's not to say that you're wrong in saying that Shaman Stone is balanced, just that if I had made it my baseline, other charms would've needed an even greater buff than what I proposed. c) I think the Elegy change is cool. As you say, maybe a little powerful, but really fricking cool. And numbers could always be adjusted. Thanks a lot for taking the time to write out this comment. I really enjoyed reading it :)

[@erierierierierie]

@the_holland for shamans i could be a little more clear. since the full gear meta of this game is 3 charms that cost 3 notches, a charm of that level is inherently much more costly than a 2 notch charm (like soul twister), since those are typically thrown on after the main part of the build. regardless, i think this is just a disagreement we will have and that's fine.

[@somebody4094]

my boy, you massacred shaman stone

[@the_holland]

Muahaha! That's right! Now you'll HAVE to run Grimmchild 😈

[@somebody4094]

​@the_holland i love Grimm, give some light to our drama queen

[@gogoshkaplays3593]

I can’t believe this video is not more popular. It’s so well edited.

[@the_holland]

Seriously, that's such a nice thing of you to say. I really take that to heart - thank you so much

[@stanislawwitkowicz918]

I'm surprised I haven't seen a video like this earlier, finally someone talking about it! You expressed a lot of my common frustrations with the charm system. I love Hollow Knight, but this imbalance can drive me nuts. I think you excellently identified the shortcomings of charms featured in this video, however, I do not entirely agree with the solutions you came to. First and foremost. I've already seen that mentioned in the comments, but I think it's worth repeating: it's not only about how many charms are outclassed on their own, it's also about their lack of powerful synergies. The example of Weaversong shows that even a mediocre charm can be elevated to true greatness by a well-though out synergy with a different one. However, almost none of actual synergies To add insult to injury, none of the top tier charms have any synergies at all - as a result, one of the game's potentially most fun mechanics is left completely out of the meta. A lot of the charms you covered in this video could use a good synergy or two. Another thing is how these boosted charms can interact with other charms, especially if those are boosted too - you risk swinging too hard in the other direction and breaking the game in many unexpected ways. Though admittedly, I'd also prefer to boost charms rather than nerf them. Not a fan of Shaman Stone nerf. I propose a solution: anti-synergies! If a certain combination of charms produces a potentially game-breaking effect, make one of them stop working if both are equipped. If there are charms which like each other, maybe there are charms that hate each other too? That was a lovely analysis, I hope you continue this future videos!

[@stanislawwitkowicz918]

Those are my charm specific notes: - Gathering Swarm: I believe there is a fun way to make this one somewhat usable in battle - a synergy with Glowing Womb! Once Glowing Womb is reworked into actual usability, it could form the foundation of playable minion build. Make GS increase the total amount of hatchlings to 6 and spawn 2 at a time. A tiny swarm of three - you and two hatchlings! - Stalwart Shell: not a bad idea at all, even if three notches for an effect that activates only once every 30 seconds seems a bit too harsh. There are few battles in the game which you can't realistically end within a minute; if you menage that, you only get to use the charm once every battle... Still, my biggest doubt is in how this one's effect relates to possible reworks for Baldur's Shell and Carefree Melody. It feels like this version of SS runs the risk of becoming interchangable with the other two. - Soul Catcher and Soul Eater: you nailed it exactly with why Soul Eater is so problematic. That said, I would prefer to keep their original notch cost and boost Soul generation instead. There is nothing wrong with Soul Eater staying at four - if enough other charms have their notch cost lowered, it should all balance itself out. - Shaman Stone: again, not a fan of this one. I think that damage boost reduction all the way down to 25% is way too harsh, especially because there are almost no other ways to increase spell damage in vanilla game. Down to 40% for ddark and shriek would be acceptable. Again, anti-synergies. - Grubsong: I'm surprised you decided to boost this one; in my opinion, Grubsong is, similarly to Spell Twister, one of the only truly balanced charms. If you consider how much Soul you'd be getting with this charm boosted and how much you could be saving with, say boosted Deep Focus... I think it could get rather silly. - Grubberfly: This one is one of the two with most waasted potential. It was done so dirty... The effect is very cool but impractical in almost every way: the notch cost is punishing, the damage reduction is far too great, the effect is easy to loose and once lost, hard to regain. I think that your idea is great in addressing the latter two, but the charm is still too expensive and deserves more interactivity. Plus, there is something to be said about the charm's design rewarding player for specific style of play (staying at max health) and this being partially lost in an attempt to make it easier to use. Here's my attempt at boosting it: Grubberfly's Elegy: reduced notch cost by 1; damage output reduced only by 33.3% instead of 50% (3, 6, 10, 12, 14), Fragile Strength mitigates the effect entirely; receive 8 soul for each time a projectile hits a target; synergy with Lifeblood Heart and Lifeblood Core: increase projectile damage by 50% (stacks multiplicately; GE + FS = 5, 9, 13, 17, 21; GE + FS + LH/LC = 7, 14, 23, 27, 32) (Synergy with Mark of Pride stays the same, though it could be boosted. Synergy with Fury of the Fallen stays the same.) Sorry for the spam, I didn't want to clog the comment section with my musings, but I also REALLY wanted to share these notes...

[@the_holland]

Thanks man, I'm so glad you agreed that we should talk more about this issue! I just couldn't believe that no one had made a video like this before!! GENERAL COMMENTS: 1. Charms should definitely have more synergies that were worth your time! I agree 100% 2. Uhhh, anti-synergy is a cool idea. Wonder if it'll feel bad though, if it ends up stunting creativity? I suppose you'd just have to be careful to only add anti-synergies to very select (and overpowered) charm combos, like Strength and Quick Slash. 3. Definitely a fear that I'll swing too far in the other direction, but even if I did (given it weren't *too-too* far), at this point, I'd still just like to see the meta changed up almost no matter the cost. 4. Thank you so much for the kind words. I really appreciate you! CHARM META-COMMENTS (only if you've got the time!): * Gathering Swarm: That's a really cool idea, and very thematic for "gathering swarm" to buff swarms of enemies! * Stalwart Shell: You're totally right to be worried about Carefree Melody becoming too similar to the new Stalwart Shell. I'll see what I can do. * Soul Catch & Soul Eater: Well, I still see problems at four notches for Overcharming, but I'm glad you agreed with the change(s) overall for those two charms! * Shaman Stone: I see your point. The only reason I went so hard against it was because I was scared that not nerfing it into the ground would just mean people kept using it at the same rate as before. But maybe you're right. * Grubsong: You're right, boosting this one was a dangerous move. I was just unsure whether people actually used it for bosses that dealt two or more damage, and for those that don't, the change thankfully doesn't apply :) * Grubberfly's Elegy: Wow, you really thought a lot about this! I especially like the change where you can actually get Soul by using Elegy, I hadn't thought about that... I'll have to write it down. Absolutely no need to apologize, I read everything and I loved it! So glad some of your are sharing your thoughts, and they're settling alight so many sparks of motivation in my mind! Really appreciate the comment, man!

[@noatrope]

⁠​⁠@@stanislawwitkowicz918I think the idea of synergising Swarm and Womb is brilliant! As an alternative, though, what if it allowed Womb to generate hatchlings from geo rather than soul? That feels more intuitive to me, and I like the idea of a cycle of "kill enemy with hatchlings, swarm gathers the geo, geo makes more hatchlings"; it also basically stops being a drawback entirely during the late game when geo is abundant.

[@stanislawwitkowicz918]

​​@@noatropeThat's a great idea! I've been playing with the idea of a 'geo-boosted' build, using Grubsong and Greed, but somehow never made the connection with Gathering Swarm! I still like my idea better, since yours threaten to make the synergy too strong, actually... Maybe a triple charm synergy, then? Grubsong+Gathering Swarm+Glowing Womb: you spawn two hatchlings at once for the total of six and they consume geo instead of soul. I don't know if it would be ever too strong and if so, when in a playthrough would it start getting too strong, would it be a bad thing? I think this warrants gameplay testing. Geo really isn't as important to Hollow Knight as one would think, so the introduction of this mechanic would really be a big change. Thank you for that awesome idea!

[@Stirdix]

Your rebalanced grubsong vs. later stages of GPZ: "How about you just take a full soul meter?"

[@the_holland]

xD

[@thestylemage2092]

6:22 The problem with 1 cost SC imo is that it effectively does not help at very important breaking points (current SC gives you your 2nd spell at 5 hits instead of 6, this one would still require 6 hits for more than 66 soul). It would only save you a nail swing for your third spell (8 instead of 9).

[@the_holland]

That's true, but think of the cost! 1 notch is so cheap to run that practically any buff it worth it. That's how I see it!

[@TlalocTemporal]

@the_holland -- I think that being so cheap and not hitting breakpoints makes it immaterial. You never feel it's effects and you'll rarely miss it, maybe blaming yourself for not taking it if you lose. Not very fun. Perhaps a synergy with nail arts could be the way to make it more worth the two notch cost, and also buff nail arts?

[@the_holland]

That could be cool, too!

[@erierierierierie]

@@TlalocTemporal this is already how the majority of 1 notch charms work in this game. although i guess most/all of those are probably getting buffed, so maybe thats a bad point

[@TlalocTemporal]

@@erierierierierie -- Most of the 1-notch charms do something unique rather than just buff something. Wayward Compass, Gathering Swarm, Grubsong, Thorns of Agony, Defender's Crest, and Spore Shroom all have a unique effect that's noticable, even if a few just suck. Sprintmaster, Steady Body, Nailmaster's Glory, and Dream Wielder just change numbers, yet all of them make meaningful changes. Steady is weak, but literally can't be buffed more without doing someing else, and Glory is kinda weak because Nail Arts are weak, but they all have a definite effect that you can feel. They might suck, but you'll know that they suck rather than being left wondering. I don't mind the idea of demoting Soul Catcher to a 1 notch charm, it would give a bit more room to experiment early game and could fit into more builds. However, it's current effect would already be hard to notice if soul wasn't so tight in the early game. Actually, Soul Catcher has an additional effect already. It gives 3 extra soul to the main vessel, but only 2 to extra vessels. Maybe it could give 3 soul if you have less than 33 soul, 2 sould if less than 99 and 1 otherwise? A bit of a nerf, but still noticable if your running on empty or playing very aggressive.

[@outofideasexe]

I was so disappointed this didn't include all the charms but these are genuinely some great ideas and i can't wait to see what you bring for the rest

[@the_holland]

I *promise you* I'm gonna release the rest of the rebalances! It just takes a while for me to do the writing and recording and editing, but I'm truly flattered that you enjoyed it :)

[@nikkes2610]

Really good video for such a small channel. 🔥

[@the_holland]

You're too kind, Nikkes - I appreciate that a lot

[@thefrostwizardgamer1555]

Here's an idea: Since defender's crest is mostly usable in 1 situation (lost kin and their normal variant): Synergy with fury of the fallen: the 1st time you'd take fatal damage you instead survive on 1 mask and get X number of red masks (basically shields), increase the damage increase from fury to 100 percent (25 percent more than base fury) -triggers once and refreshes on benches/works on radiant but the after triggering you still die from 1 shot(for clarification you die from 1 shot IF you get hit again after the effect activates NOT right after it procs just to avoid confusion leading you to think that it's worthless in radiant)- Kingsoul: getting hit consumes X soul to grant you a shield and decrease knockback recieved

[@the_holland]

Interesting ideas :)

[@Super-72]

Make spore shroom 2 notches, but it replaces vengeful spirit with a mushroom cloud, but it does 33% more dames, just over time

[@the_holland]

That's pretty interesting 🤔

[@andregodinho2705]

Incredible video! congrats and keep up the good work!

[@the_holland]

Thank you so much, man! It means the world to me

[@cokeman432]

Cool video! I'm interested to see what you do with the rest of the charms, however I can't help but note that a good few charms aren't necessarily bad, but more niche when compared to other more generally applicable charms. For example, both of the soul charms aren't very powerful on their own when compared to charms like Strength or Quick Slash, however their strength comes from their synergy with other charms. You mentioned in the Soul Catcher section that it fulfills a similar role to that of Spell Twister and aimed to bring it up to a similar level, however the way these two charms interact makes it difficult to compare the two side by side. The increase in soul from Soul Catcher means you have enough soul to cast after only two slashes as opposed to three, leading to a sort of nail-spell hybrid build. You also mentioned in the Soul Eater section that it limits your build options, and that's by design due to how extreme its effect is. Soul Eater is a charm which enables a more spell-centric and explosive playstyle, especially when combined with Quick Slash. Both combinations are similar but differ enough to make you think which you'd rather pick more: do you embrace the reliability of a hybrid between melee and magic or do you drown your enemies with spells? Just something you could consider when rebalancing other charms, not every charm has to stand on its own two feet to be a good charm. Also, I don't think Dashmaster really needs any change, it's good as it is and is mostly just a mobility tool - a great one at that. Stalwart Shell sounds like a neat idea though it seems like one of those charms that would increase in strength exponentially with the user's skill, which I'm not the biggest fan of. That's all from me though, looking forward to the next video. Cheers!

[@the_holland]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts! Really appreciate the kind words too :D

[@BlueCat201X]

Giving Grubberfly’s Elegy the ability to pogo *could* also lead to the players cheesing their way into unintended areas, but since acquiring it in the first place requires exploring practically all of Hallownest anyways, it might not be that big of an issue

[@the_holland]

I totally see that point, and maybe you're right that it's okay because it's so late into the game. But I think the real issue I missed was the fact that delayed pogos can feel unwieldy!

[@BlueCat201X]

@the_holland Definitely would take some adjusting to, for sure. Though personally my bigger problem with this charm is the issue of gathering Soul, since the beam it extends does not let you harvest Soul at all. This not only limits your ability to heal and cast spells (especially if the modified beam would persist through lower health as well), but also forces you to take the risk of taking damage up close if you want to get any Soul, reducing the benefit of a ranged weapon. I wonder if there could be some synergies to be made to make it more viable for players who prefer a spellcasting-focused playstyle (like myself), or if it would be an intentional tradeoff that would benefit non-casters more and make their playstyles more viable in the late-game.

[@the_holland]

I definitely think there could and should be some way to gain soul using the beams. I was thinking (because someone else mentioned it) maybe just straight up allowing you to collect soul with the beams, but maybe less than you'd normally collect?

[@BlueCat201X]

Yeah, I think that would be a fair tradeoff

[@creativejuice3852]

I think shaman stone is severely underpowered here. You’ve proposed a 25% damage buff for 3 notches, whereas spell twister provides an additional spell at full soul, so a 33% dmg increase. I understand there’s nuances between the two, but especially due to spell twister’s 2 notch cost, I think 35% increase for shaman stone is a much healthier option.

[@the_holland]

35% for Shaman Stone is a *buff to Vengeful Spirit.* That simply would not shake up the meta :(

[@tevolozza_vgm]

You killed shaman stone bro

[@the_holland]

Bye-bye meta!

[@tevolozza_vgm]

@the_holland maybe...but please also nerf strenght in the next video

[@the_holland]

I will!!!

[@jaxon3186]

I actually love your stalwart shell, it's basically hiveblood but actually good

[@the_holland]

Haha thank you! I'm gonna be looking at Hiveblood too, don't you worry!

[@BlackHero20]

Personally. I think a cool change for dash master would be lowering the cooldown till shade cloak is active. That way you can use the invulnerable dash more as well, making it more applicable in combat. You could then make its synergy with sprintmaster lower it even further (sprintmaster wont lower it by itself. But it would with dash master) thus making the synergy even better to run. Making it more justified for traversal. You could also probably run a sharp shadow build in some fights with this which is cool synergy.

[@the_holland]

It's funny, already like 3 or 4 people have suggested that very same change! Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

[@sethissleeping]

awesome video! i’ve never really thought about the discrepancies with some of the charms and their abilities, i really like the idea of reworking the charms like this. there are a lot of charms i’ve never once used simply because the functionality seemed too niche or the charm cost didn’t fit into my build, can’t wait to see more of these types of videos :D

[@the_holland]

Hi Seth, hope I'm not waking you! (;D) I really appreciate your kind words, and I'm so glad you enjoyed the idea behind the video! More to come!

[@gabriellopez4100]

5:45 "As a matter of fact, I have never the former picked over the later by a skilled player" Me, who always chooses Soul Catcher over Spell Twister: This is why I couldn't beat Pantheon of Hallownest!!! *Cries on the ground*

[@the_holland]

Damn man, I'm so sorry 😖😭 I feel for you

[@PureVoidChaos]

Bro what the quality is immaculate I’m subbing

[@the_holland]

Man, that's so nice of you to say 🥺 thank you.

[@PureVoidChaos]

@ you just got 1k congrats!

[@the_holland]

No less thanks to yourself!! Thank you so much

[@jukesdtj656]

Damn, the Charms that synergize best with the base combat system work the best? Thats crazy.

[@the_holland]

Yeah, you're totally right... and that's what made me want to stir things up a little bit!

[@BuriedSoil5675]

Not only is this video enjoyable to watch, with good pacing, script, visuals, all that, but it also has a lot of charm to it I can’t wait to see what you plan to do for the rest of the charms. (Also out of my own personal idea, I would probably have sprint master still increase height and jump movement but instead make it unlock able when you get Sly’s storage key) Overall, very fun video and I can’t wait to see more from ya!

[@the_holland]

Wow, man, those are... really kind words. I'm flattered. That means so much to me. So, I looked it up after making the video, and I think Sprintmaster *is* actually unlocked with the Storage Key! Which means your change should totally apply: allowing the speed increase to also apply while mid-air! Thanks a ton for the comment!

[@TheGamingGuyYT]

Btw shamon stone does change the size of other spells it's just no where near as much for shade soul

[@the_holland]

Really, is that so? Well shucks, I guess I went off some misinformation on the wiki! Thanks for pointing that out

[@TlalocTemporal]

This might be a sign that the size can be increased even more!

[@insomniacnerd5592]

Genuinely think this was a great video with all changes properly explained great. Don’t think I have any problems with anything you suggested. Seems very fun! Definitely wanna see the rest of the series. Keep at it.

[@the_holland]

Thank you so much for those kind words, Insomniac. It means so much to me that you liked the video :) Stay tuned!

[@TylerCathey]

yeahh.... im gonna need part 2 ASAP!!!!

[@the_holland]

I can't express how much it means to me that you are excited to see a part 2! Thank you so much for watching man, god damn

[@TylerCathey]

@the_holland peak recommendation pull ong bro keep cooking

[@the_holland]

oh bro you're too kind, too kind

[@cacovonluca]

Loved this video! You deserve way more attention. Also, i hope there's modders who are willing to add your solutions to the game. Honestly, if i receive news of somebody who's doing that, ima just stop playing just so i can replay the game with these changes!

[@the_holland]

Man, that would be absolutely awesome!

[@matkorez]

I think that soul catcher is balanced well. It is just better for beginners, who need to heal more and use spells less. I dont think I used spells at all in my first playthrough. You also didnt mention that spell twister allows you to cast 4 spells, which is usefull for one shotting some bosses. ;-) Overall really nice video and I agree with most of your takes.

[@the_holland]

That's great to hear! And yeah, I understand your point about Soul Catcher, although still, I don't think a little tiny buff would hurt :')

[@Yo1-l2l]

I agree with your positions, but we also need to adress progression at the point of acquisition. For example, it might be a bit too powerful to have compass, soul catcher, and gathering swarm before dash and without being overcharmed.

[@the_holland]

Could you maybe elaborate on that point a little bit? I'm not quite sure what you mean :)

[@Yo1-l2l]

@the_holland sure, if we think of balancing a early game charm like soul catcher with a later game charm like grubbing. We may run into balancing issues in the game progression standpoint too. The early game is about choices too, what to spend your money on, what charms to equip. If we change notch costs too much, it may limit the amount of decisions(from do you want gathering swarm or compass with catcher to having all three charms equipped without punishment[overcharming])

[@the_holland]

@ Right, well see I don't like the idea of some charms being "early game charms" in the sense that they won't be useful later on. I want every charm to be more or less equally useful in the end-game :)

[@Yo1-l2l]

@the_holland ok very cool👌👍

[@the_holland]

@ :)

[@Gopyara]

0:42 Grimmchild thinks it's on the team

[@the_holland]

as soon as I find out how to block comments...

[@kanegd2990]

I think a better buff to grubberflys elegy would be to make the projectiles deal more damage, maybe 75-100% nail damage, and have them give you soul (slightly less than a nail hit would), but to keep how you need to be at full health to maintain. This way, rather than becoming useless upon taking a hit, it can sustain itself by giving you soul to heal but at a slower rate than the nail and it maintains the design idea of needing full hp for its effects

[@the_holland]

Wait hold on, I don't understand how that works? If the beam turns off when not at full health, how does it help you save up Soul for healing?

[@kanegd2990]

@the_holland when attacking with it at full health, the beams give you soul which can then be used to heal yourself if you take damage. The idea is to make it a more present part of your build because with the way it is in the game, it encourages you to attack from a distance to take advantage of it while simultaneously encouraging you to get up close and personal to get soul to heal any damage you might take to keep the effect going. I think having the beams give you soul fixes that and makes it so you actually get to USE the charms effect

[@the_holland]

Ohh, like that. Now I get your point! Yeah, I kinda like that. Although, as soon as you start losing 2 or 3 health, you're probably not getting the charm back for the current fight, which still is kind of sad to me. But not a bad idea!

[@williamclancy-jundt118]

Mostly good but I absolutely disagree with your thoughts on Stalwart Shell. I find the charm is basically a significant health boost that scales amazingly late game. Now, I do agree that the 4 cost charms are underpowered but, I don't agree with having no four notch charms. Sure over charming with them is strong in radiant battles. however I find that of incredibly little impotence considering how niche such battles are. Anyway, cool video! I have thought about this before to and I'm interested to see what you have in mind.

[@the_holland]

Hi William, glad to hear you enjoyed the video! I've played so many radiant battles, that I can't say I find the situation you mention very niche. But I suppose for a more casual player, it will be. I can see that!

[@gehansoliman9297]

These are amazing ideas for reworking charms plus,this is an extremely underated video.

[@the_holland]

Thank you so much for those very kind words, Gehansoliman. I really appreciate it!

[@mouaad1630]

we need a mod of those modified charms

[@the_holland]

That would be amazing!

[@Kowal9833]

@@mouaad1630 there is already a simmilar one that lets you modify the charms to your desire, it's called Charm Changer, I use it all the time for my randomizer runs

[@the_holland]

Damn, that's awesome!

[@th3_ph4ntomreborn31]

Idea for buffs to the minion builds: actually good ai

[@the_holland]

Now that's a real challenge!

[@ЕвгенийЕфимов-й7н]

Not gonna lie but I absolutely lovrd Sprint+Dashmasters charms when I was speedrunning 112 (fpr achievements). They're great to traverse, ans they're great for combat too. When you can dash and around around like you're bug on crack, it actually saves quite a bit from attacks that othervice would've been a guaranteed hits.

[@jukesdtj656]

This is very true, so many of these charms have a very defined use case and just because it isn't a universal charm that is always having an effect doesn't mean its a bad charm.

[@the_holland]

I can totally see that!

[@theplague5803]

Alternative to soul catcher Gives 2 extra soul on hit every hit with a spell has a 50% chance to grant 1 soul and healing has a 10% chance to refund lost soul

[@the_holland]

Cool!

[@Elemental_Dragon364]

My go to build is: soul catcher, quickslash, dashmaster, mark of pride

[@the_holland]

Cool!

[@aqlcaramsm3907]

Incredible video! Good work

[@the_holland]

Thanks a ton, man! I appreciate that so much

[@Insomniac_Insights]

Stalwart Charm helped me alot with cheesing NMG.

[@the_holland]

Wow, really? Dang, I'd never heard of someone successfully putting it to use!

[@Insomniac_Insights]

@the_holland kzbin.info/www/bejne/hJu2aIZoYretnqMsi=L-bZe02k0BdYACaH

[@the_holland]

@ Wow! That's really cool. Why is it NMG, though? Isn't it just Grimm? 😅

[@Insomniac_Insights]

@the_holland My bad. That video helped me cheese Grimm, and get a 11th notch. 🥳

[@the_holland]

@ Damn, it's pretty cool! I like when people discover stuff like that

[@hockeater]

A charm straight up being undesirable to equip feels bad. Thus compass should highlight ALL ungotten things on the map once you have the collectors map. Now it's at least a completion tool so you don't have to remember what you already grabbed.

[@the_holland]

That is... not a bad idea... hold up, I'm gonna screenshot your comment.

[@infeinfe]

I feel like this should be an upgrade for the charm, like, once you get all maps or fill out all the main areas, not just for collectors map. Hk is a bit game with a lot of variation in routes, and a lot of it is in exploring imo

[@hockeater]

@ If you don't have an area mapped to begin with you'll just see collectables floating in an empty void. That's useless for giving actionable date save... Go in this general direction I guess? Frankly if your exploration is so uninteresting that having a vague direction ruins it it wasn't good to begin with. Also keep in mind that collector's map is one of the most late game things to grab. Likely won't even get it on your first trip through kingdom's edge.

[@the_holland]

Yeah, I think that might be right, Infeinfe!

[@Ancient_Soul9000]

12:02 *“at seven masks lost, the wide heart beam is abused entirely”*

[@the_holland]

;D "(...) the white-hot beam *disappears* entirely!"

[@Ancient_Soul9000]

@the_holland I hear it now thanks

[@the_holland]

My mouth was not made for this language

[@Ancient_Soul9000]

@the_holland nah it was just me not hearing correctly

[@the_holland]

Fair enough :')

[@Alpha_mindustry]

Hiveblood's description is currently missleading tbh, so here's my suggestion of a rework : Option a) 3 Notch, regenerate 1 mask every 15 seconds, regenerate 1 mask eatch 35 seconds with jade's blessing, can go up to 20 masks Option b) 3 Notch, Regenerate 1 masks after gaining atleast 50 soul from nail/dream nail, increase the requiered soul up to 75 with jade's blessing with the same cap

[@the_holland]

Love it! Those are fun ideas :D Jade's Blessing XD

[@Alpha_mindustry]

@the_holland Option a is more closer to the original concept while the other one is more agressive one Btw one more detail : getting hit does NOT reset the regen anymore

[@the_holland]

@ Very important!!

[@JAYbePRINCE]

How the heck does this video have less than 50k views? It's a f**king masterpiece! While i do feel like this video is severely underrated i can't help but disagree on the grubberfly's elegy change, mainly due to the pogo. Since the light wave is a projectile and as such requires time to cross x distance i don't feel like giving it pogo properties is a good idea, mainly for how much this would screw over a player's perception of the pogo, imagine this: You are pogoing an enemy in order to reach higher terrain, due to the wave being a projectile the pogo can have either an annoying delay or make you go flying upwards more than what you think it should. I tried this while trying to mod hollow knight and there were cases in Wich a delayed pogo screwed me over due to their unpredictable nature, i was sent flying due to using wings at the same time the projectile hit or both the blade and the projectile hit at the same time causing me to be propelled a lot higher than expected. In short giving the players pogo in the grubberfly elegy can result in a steady body type of situation, where you either hate or love it with no place in between and i don't feel like that is a good design philosophy for anything at all.

[@the_holland]

I have no idea how so many kind souls found their way to my small channel, but wow are you guys just the nicest people! Thank you so much for saying that! You. Are. ABSOLUTELY RIGHT! Gosh darn it, I totally didn't think of that! I'll have to address your point in a later video, because that just downright breaks the charm. Thanks a ton for pointing that out, and for doing it in such a nice way. I really do appreciate it!

[@gearslayer-vn3gz]

I'm on board with all of these changes. fingers crossed either you or someone is able to make a Mod because i would love to do a playthrough with these balances plus whatever you have instore for the rest of the charms. Looking forward to the next one :)

[@the_holland]

Thanks man! And yeah, that would be awesome! XD

[@animax1564]

Amazing video, can't wait to see the rest! I disagree with stalwart shell as I think with this rework it's too similar to carefree melody though

[@the_holland]

Thank you so much! And yes, yes you are absolutely right, it is too similar... that's definitely my bad. Thanks for the comment!

[@penguinmcswaggn2936]

I'm excited to see how he changes my favorite charm. Quick Focus number 1

[@the_holland]

;)

[@Plaguedwithdeath]

Nice. Though I don’t play hollow knight (I plan to but time restrictions and college is coming soon) I feel like the main problem of this series that would make balancing difficult is the charm node cost, how early you get the charm, and different niches such as exploration charms vs combat charms. Also strength and quick slash gonna be gutted I just know it. Third or something

[@the_holland]

College is the best time to play Hollow Knight 😎

[@LucaRocha2012]

if grubberfly's elegy lost the pots and pans sound it would already be usable

[@the_holland]

Oh yeah, I remember it sounding a bit off :')

[@luis_._1423]

I really think that spell twistet is broken. I would consider soul catcher the perfectly balanced one.

[@luis_._1423]

but like, i'm saying this in the phanteons and stuff. But, even in the normal game, i think that spell twister still beter than soul catcher.

[@Squishv]

It's pretty much only good in the early game until you get strength, quick slash and other good charms. I'm pretty sure soul catcher only exists to help with baldurs before Greenpath and Howling Cliffs

[@luis_._1423]

@@Squishv you don't have always a multiple of 3 un your charms, so many people fill this 2 notches space with soul catcher

[@the_holland]

Well, as I tried so state in the intro, you just have to choose a power baseline. I think *you* have to choose the baseline you feel makes the game most fun to play!

[@CrayCray264]

the only problem with stalwart shell is you made it quite good, and it is really easy to obtain early game

[@the_holland]

Yeah... that might be true. Although, I think the 30 seconds *is* quite a long time to wait. But you may be right.

[@venomousfrog5546]

​@the_holland if it does end up actually being too OP, a flat increase of the wait time might help. As for its behavior in Radiant fights, maybe it breaks the way Baldur Shell does if it blocks more than 2 masks of damage in one strike?

[@the_holland]

Wow, is that how Baldur's works? I never knew!

[@venomousfrog5546]

@the_holland Baldur shell breaks after it has been used a few (i think iots either 3 or 4) times, and resets at benches!

[@the_holland]

@ Yes I know that, I was however unaware of the the 2-or-more-mask strikes breaking it entirely!