Rhaenyra Targaryen Is Not A Revolutionary Feminist Changing Westeros For The Better

[@idab9958]

Finally a take on Rhaenyra that doesn't make me want to set myself on fire.

[@MiraTheWarlock]

Most feminist Targaryan was Rhaenyras great grandmother, Alysanne whom abolished the First Night, a tradition where noblemen could demand to have any bride on the wedding night instead of her husband

[@HainiDjokovic1995]

King Jarhaerys Targaryen wife

[@apieceoflife2732]

No feminist Will ever be Targaryens. They will understand the trauma of generational forced incest and grooming on the women.

[@MiraTheWarlock]

@@HainiDjokovic1995 Yes exactly

[@HainiDjokovic1995]

@@MiraTheWarlock I like both Jarhaerys and Alysanne Targaryen because unlike the other Targaryens, they were not involved in some nonsense persecution or power hunger. In fact during the reign of Jarhaerys and Alysanne Targaryen, there was peace and stability among the Targaryen families and at Westeros region.

[@MiraTheWarlock]

@@HainiDjokovic1995 Plus while neither were perfect...because its game of thrones, there's no such thing, if people ever wanted a Targaryan to use as a feminist icon, Alysanne's the closests there is Plus Jaeharys was a good father to most of his kids

[@Shenanakins]

rhaenyra having bastards is not an issue. rhaenyra trying to pass them off as legitimate (which is considered high treason) is an issue.

[@aceb4634]

She usurped an inheritance for her kids while complaining about being usurped . I'm Team Black but yeah these characters aren't exactly morally sound.

[@DarkKing009]

I am not questioning your virtue lady. I am just denying it's existence - Lord Tyrion Lannister

[@khfan4life365]

And the fact that by having illegitimate children, she endangered her claim to the throne because her claim was supported by Laenor being her husband. Why Corlys put up with that bs is beyond me.

[@ty-zz9ic]

Dude tbh the moment she had those 3 kids, all of their deaths and Rhaenyra’s defeat was established

[@khfan4life365]

@@ty-zz9ic that’s also what gets me. She selfishly endangered the lives of those kids the moment they were born. She had moon tea, something 99.9% of women didn’t have. There was no excuse for her having illegitimate kids.

[@SuperBadadan]

Everything stems from Viserys' inability to do a single thing right. He failed to properly set up marriage alliances, failed to treat Alicent and her children as even human much less his own flesh and blood, failed to set up Rhaenyra's succession to the throne, failed to tell anybody of the seriously important fate of the world-deciding prophecy of utmost importance and failed to even die right, making Alicent misunderstand his final words. He honestly makes Robert Baratheon look good.

[@jaminavestajugo3456]

I've met people like that. They want to make everyone happy, keep the family/community together at all costs, and avoid conflict. But because they avoid making the tough decisions, the exact opposite happens and all hell breaks loose eventually.

[@Kay-kg6ny]

THANK YOU. I think the actor Paddy's performance was so charming that the HOTD audience has lost sight of the fact that the actual character Viserys was a huge screwup on almost every front.

[@youdontknowme2913]

I disagree, he was a great king. The seeds of war was not set because of viserys they were set by rhynera, alicent and otto high tower. Viserys did his best to stop the realm from plunging into civil war. Savage books made a great analysis about the decision on viserys decisions kzbin.info/www/bejne/fGjcnIWMaLqZg6s

[@juanitajones6900]

He should not have married Alicent in the first place. And he allowed his entire family - Alicent included - to get away with a lot of crap.

[@opchild]

@@youdontknowme2913every decision he made lead to war no matter what his intention was lol

[@stoneheart8231]

It will be really interesting to see how audiences react to Rhaenyra disinheriting both lady Rosby and lady Stokeworth on the basis of their gender, and giving their lands, titles and castles to their younger brothers instead… While simultaneously being outraged about how male primogeniture affects her.

[@9xprincess]

The showrunners may cut that out like they cut out Rhaenrya's possible involvement in Laenor's death and her killing of Vaemond.

[@stoneheart8231]

@@9xprincess They’ll probably ham up how it’s actually Corlys’ decision with Rhaenyra just mindlessly going along with it…. Which is unfortunate, cause female characters are so often robbed of their agency. The show writers would rather make both her and Alicent puppets for the men around them, than have them be ambitious/self-serving women who make actual decisions that drive the narrative forward. Not very feminist writing if you ask me, but what do I know? I’m just a silly woman after all 🤣

[@frankvandorp2059]

@@stoneheart8231 Of course it depends on what meaning of "feminist" they use, but if the showrunners wanted to depict an awful patriarchal society that oppresses women and advantages men, they probably shouldn't have picked that one conflict in Westerosi where both sides were led by women who both rose to positions of power above the men around them. And who both do some pretty awful stuff that easily rivals the awful stuff that male rulers do. It's almost as if they suddenly realized they had Alicent and Rhaenyra overcome many of the challenges they faced at women, and realized: "damn, this goes against The Message about women being hapless victims, let's pretend from now on that nothing they do is actually their choice and everything is still controlled by evil men somehow, controlling these women like puppets."

[@judsonbox9845]

@@frankvandorp2059 lol this is a brain dead take

[@kajamiletic3223]

@@frankvandorp2059 I would have enjoyed a Miranda Priestley kind of characterization for the both of them, in the vein of "If you want to succeed as a woman in a male-dominated world, sometimes you have to be a stone-cold bitch because the world leaves you no other choice". I really thought they were going for that at first: show them being sweet and friendly as teens and then have them slowly harden and grow disillusioned as the people around them push them into impossible choices. So far neither of them has been pushed into ANY choice, because Otto and Daemon are practically running the show and any agency that the women have is the stereotypical "placating female influence against the power- and blood-thirsty men in their lives".

[@heartlesslove9084]

It's funny that people are using modern standards for medieval drama while their values and morals are completely different .

[@TheGr8-1]

😂😂 exactly. She traditionally has no claim to the throne. But all this feminist crap is taking over.

[@mg-cx5tv]

And as a feminist i can't see where she or her writing is feminist , all i see is makers are constantly trying to show how less controllable rhaenyra and alicent were and men around them played them like puppets. When i can sympathize wi​th this i don't see it as a feminist perspective at all. Making rhaenyra's issue and issue of all women is stupidity as she just did was robb did ,I.e. didn't played smart and let their personal choices destroyed them but people can say robb stupid but the moment you say same for rhaenyra It's misogynist 😂. I mean it is a political game and if you got something other marginalised like you didn't then you should try to do your best to make an example , that would be something feminist but it is just poor writing hiding behind crazy fans here . @@TheGr8-1

[@Thrawn23.]

​@@TheGr8-1she had a claim. But like Otto said 'the succession changed the day your father siered a son'. Let alone 3

[@holtimt]

@@Thrawn23. Not if the king himself decided she'll be the heir.

[@Morfe02]

Tell the writers putting "mysoginist" allies to Rhaenyra I mean has sense like they wanted Daemon has king but HAS NO SENSE SAYING TO THE FACE OF THE QUEEN "HEY YOU ARE THE WEAK SEX" what a bullshit is this 😂😂😂

[@epcarter6]

This is my biggest issue with the show, it paints Rhaenyra so much more as a protagonist than she is in the book.

[@jollychiu1269]

Accdng to the producer and George Martin, the book was written by the perspectives of three different persons, The Maester, The Mushroom and the other Maester. Producers said that the show was made for the clarity to what really was the trigger point of Dance of the Dragon

[@LeeBeeDeeTree51]

@@jollychiu1269 But it's still an interpretation. One of the show runners admitted as much. When left ambiguous, they present what they think George R.R. Martin meant.

[@juu04midnight15]

@@jollychiu1269 If ep.9 didn't showed us enough that the showrunners favored team black more with Rhaenys stupid entrance instead of Aegon rode Sunfyre around King's Landing to cheer up his people, the big golden dragon flew above the capital of 7 kingdoms? How can you said those masters were unreliable writers when it not just them who recorded things, there're other people who witnessed these events like foreign merchants/nobles/travelers saw giant golden dragon flew above their heads when they docked and did business there💀

[@juu04midnight15]

@@jollychiu1269 GRRM said a couple weeks ago that he doesn't have nearly as close as the pull on the writing of the show as people think he does. He's there to advice, the showrunners can simply reject that advice if they want to, and clearly they have.

[@jollychiu1269]

@@juu04midnight15 But it doesn't change the fact that they usurp the throne. And Viserys never change his desicion as Rhaenyra as his heir

[@chingizzhylkybayev8575]

The Baela thing also applies to Corlys. It's absolutely hilarious how he rattles on for like a millionth time to his wife that her throne was taken away from her by sexists and he was gonna rectify that and then literally in the same conversation he completely dismisses his trueborn granddaughter's birthright in favor of a boy who is not even his real grandson. And it's even more baffling to me than Rhaenyra's case, because hers is understandable - of course she will choose her son over her non-niece/stepdaughter. But to Corlys they are both grandchildren, and he is still like "Baela who?"

[@chingizzhylkybayev8575]

@panthornberry love is completely irrelevant here. The question here is who he considers more worthy. He considers his adoptive grandsons more worthy than his trueborn granddaughters because, well, grandSONs are better than grandDAUGHTERs

[@peenoice5176]

​@panthornberryhypocritical not sexist.

[@ratikantrout1865]

Worth has nothing to do with it he wanted his blood on the throne its has been his and his wife ambitions so it make zero sense that he would choose a strong bastard and let his and his wife claim die in absurdity

[@roronoalaw7772]

@@chingizzhylkybayev8575He said it himself, that history remembers names and men carry their names on not women

[@kysngaming7787]

​@roronoalaw7772 that doesn't make any sense either because it will be House Targaryen who sits in the throne. Viserys tells him that it'll be Rhaenyra who is Queen so they take her last name.

[@lordfreerealestate8302]

Imperialism, class oppression, and monarchy are incompatible with feminism. Rhaenyra engages in all of it. She may be a woman but she is still privileged beyond belief in ways the peasants of Westeros will never be. She treated her female friend Allicent like dirt at times. She is only trying to empower herself (and her children). There are many women IRL who just want to get to the top of the power structures instead of changing them. In the show Catherine the Great, the imperialist Catherine is depicted as empowering and amazing, when in fact she committed atrocities (including cultural and linguistic genocide in Ukraine) that still affect the world today. Women should be treated as the equals of men, but there are other types of power other than patriarchy. Many women in power (Thatcher, Elizabeth Holmes, etc) behave just as ruthlessly as the men when in power. Rhaenys literally stomps on peasants with her dragon with no regard for their lives. I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels like this.

[@joshuabryant9845]

Hell she had more privileges than pretty much any other woman period, let alone peasant women. Allicent was a nobles daughter and she sure as hell didn't get a say in who she married. Lol

[@lorettalynn2610]

Ikr a girlboss does not differentiate good or bad, Rhaenyra is not a girlboss, she's hypocritical,a bad bitch doesn't hesitate to act her true self, Rhaenyra simply just think she's perfect so she get to act terrible while looking wise and serene

[@wohodude100]

What happened to the old feminist slogan "if women were in charge of the world, war would end tomorrow"?

[@-relle7377]

@@wohodude100 that saying always annoyed me because t paints women as angels wich contribute to purity culture

[@somersault1123]

@@wohodude100 It's hard to make a compelling story without conflict.

[@diegonatan6301]

People were so upset when Cole killed a minor knight and din't face repercussion in the next episode 10 years later, but Daemon killing the brother of Corlys Velarion was ok, I mean, the king said he was going to cut his tongue, not kill him, it was murder and an extrajudicial execution, also it wasn't even in the end of the episode, it was in the middle of it, next scene was the family dinning together FFS!

[@itsmekarima]

i didn’t even think of that! the valeryon granddaughters were just chillin at dinner toasting to their new engagements hours after their great uncle was heinously beheaded. wtfff

[@romanianturk2101]

No but the dude literally would've died anyway because of Coryls Returning

[@ig1441]

viserys stated in episode 7 that anyone questioning the legimetacy of rhaenyra's kids would have their tongue removed. but he went as far as to call her a whore. speaking ill of the princess who is also heir to the throne would no doubt grant murder even if viserys hadn't given the order

[@danishsyed1068]

@@ig1441 Probably

[@robertomacias3368]

Criston does stuff like that and everyone hates him, then daemon does like the same thing or worse (like blood and cheese) and everyone says he's a boss.

[@ering.3684]

I am so glad I found your channel! I agree with all your points. I was kind of shocked seeing all the "Rhaenyra is a feminist icon" and "Alicent is such a Karen" comments in the HotD subreddit. I enjoy both characters, but I feel like a lot of people just gloss over the fact that Alicent was a teenage girl forced to marry an old man who doesn't love her, then bore his offspring, and now has to face the fact he doesn't really care about those children or their safety. Rhaenyra and Alicent are both operating within the patriarchal system of Westeros for themselves and their families, and that's what makes them so interesting to me.

[@jeremyadrian233]

If he didn't love or care for his children then why did he employs so many servants, nannies, and teachers to step in and help the teenage girl in raising her children? Royal children probably have more time with the servants than either parent, esp when Visarys was too sick and Alicent seemed to be taking over the small council.

[@bgos4727]

​@@jeremyadrian233he did the bare minimum as a king not as a father.

[@jeremyadrian233]

@@bgos4727 Which is often the point. I had in the past been on a school board and we found it was not the poorest children that had the poorest outcomes but the children of two working parents, esp with two or more jobs or doing long hours or both shift work. A king would be just as busy and would expect to pay servants to fulfill the less important jobs.

[@c.w.8200]

Rhaenyra starts out as this sympathetic young girl but then you start to see her entitlement, she thinks she can do literally whatever she wants as future queen, it's ridiculous that she just expects everyone to shut up about her blatantly illegitimate children and the way she treats Criston Cole is so careless and cruel. How can anyone defend her?

[@virgoqueen8950]

HER GUILTY FATHER DEFENDED HER ALL THE WAY TILL HIS DEATH ... .

[@Lilianamarie999]

Criston Cole participated and then got mad who didn't get what he wants. He's a murdering man baby

[@prajju2053]

Rhaenyra was a free spirit as a young women with very strong opinion . Tell me which prince/princessess aren't entitled!? Besides the claim to the throne comes from rhaenyra's side of the family not from her husband's side so her children being illegitimate shouldnot even be an issue besides she never deceived her husband, it wasn't like her husband didn't know that the children werent his .he knew it and he accepted them as his own which is what matters , their entire marriage was based on the understanding that they would be with whoever they wanted to be with. So i don't know why ppl keep blaming rhaenyra and keep bringing the children into the debate

[@shockingbunny2122]

@@JosephAvenettiher children are only illegitimate as Velaryon’s, they have as much Targaryen blood as Alicents kids do, not to mention all of Rhaenyra’s Strong children hatched there dragon eggs while Alicents kids dragon eggs didn’t hatch, I would say there claim to the sea stone was definitely fcked, but the fact that they were betrothed to Daemons daughters who are legitimate Velaryons, meant the blood of Velaryons would still be in there family. Ultimately this was just a ploy by Otto Hightower for his family to take control of the iron throne. (Like changing the color of there flags to represent the hightowers)

[@prajju2053]

@Joseph Avenetti what does legitimisation even mean? Both the mother and father recognised publicly that the kids are theirs and also the head of the valeryon family recognised the kids as valeryon albeit for all the wrong reasons but still they are recognised. Also as I said they r still as much a targeryon as anyone of alicents kids. Again their claim to the throne come from RHAENYRA not her husband.

[@gnomecoded]

It’s honestly so tiring of people looking at Alicent through such a modern day lense “she’s a Karen” “she’s a pick me” like what… she has been pushed into an unequal marriage, did all that was expected of her and is constantly disrespected as an “extra” in the family a “just in case” anything happened to Rhaenyra. If I was her I’d be pissed too. Especially how Viserys calls Rhaenyra his only child - like has all the work Alicent put in for her family and the realm been for nothing? Is it really so wrong for her to want power after a lifetime of servitude to the system?

[@beautifulblacksoul8611]

The thing is they understood Alicent's situation when it was Daenerys. Alicent's beginning is more similar to Daenerys's such as having a male relative marry them off to a King for power (Khal Drogo), gaining the position of Queen unexpectedly (Daenerys's brother did not expect her to undermine him), being chosen by the people once in position (Alicent being respected and admired versus Rhaenyra who is scorned or feared), and being an isolated Queen with few allies but great one. Alicent is the better Queen though because Daenerys too became an entitled snot once she had her dragons. But their beginnings were pretty parallel.

[@beautifulblacksoul8611]

Viserys is a selfish 💩head who let the guilt of carving up his wife for the baby boy dictate his judgement. Dude is in the constant denial of nuh uh, I wasn't desperate to put a son on the throne. Look! My daughter is on the throne. The blood of my first wife who I told the doctor to dissect in order to get the baby that lasted a couple of hours. This is my reparation and/or atonement.

[@HillsAliveYT]

Yeahhhh, the amount of people who are outrageously frustrated that Alicent operates within the system that she was raised in but is then pissed that Viserys and to some extent Rhaenyra expect her to also kowtow to their completely random whims is baffling to me, like people simultaneously hate her for being too submissive and not submissive enough.

[@tvtda1]

i've related the most to alicent from my perspective as an outsider, i think we'd all be alicent in the same situation especially as Parents. Even our best parents would exhibit her behaviour.

[@gnomecoded]

@@HillsAliveYT I’m so happy I found your channel because of this, team green really seems to be in the minority and you offer really great criticisms of both sides that are actually grounded in reality and not some girl boss interpretation of the available trailer.

[@carlrood4457]

When you look at it, she's rarely been the instigator of action. She left it to Daemon "get rid" of Laenor. She left it to her father to cover for her kids' parentage. Daemon, again, is the one who dealt with Vaemond. Other than her childish trip to Dragonstone over Daemon stealing the egg (when she knew she was in no danger), did she ever really act like a leader? She uphold Lucerys invalid claim to Driftmark over Baela or Rhaena who are older and actually Corlys' descendants. She didn't even propose them as being ahead of Vaemond in the line of succession, which would have still had the net result of Lucerys as lord of Driftmark.

[@anwynoakenshield]

They've removed agency from both women and just has them tripping and falling into war. I don't like that change at all.

[@mg-cx5tv]

@@anwynoakenshield exactly, initially it was fine as it was more like a backstory but after episode 7 all went exactly opposite of what should be . even after all both women seem nothing more than puppets to men .

[@jordangene1923]

The Vaemond scene is altered, Rhaenyra was the one who got Daemon to kill Vaemond and she fed him to her dragon in front of his family...

[@nmvidro]

I really liked the end bit about how Rhaenyra and Alicent being representative of a repressed class doesn't mean that their motive and actions should strive to benefit that class. It reminds me of Varys's riddle and speech about how "power resides where men believe it resides" in a scenario (any scenario) where westeros is to embrace feminist ideals that choice lies in the hands of the many and not the one. Asoiaf isn't really a good analogy for our modern sensibilities but it's cool to identify with powerful characters.

[@LeeBeeDeeTree51]

Bravo. The fact that they are marginalized as women doesn't mean that they care about the rights of women in general. They care about themselves and each has convinced themselves that their horrible behavior is justified because it's for the good of the realm.

[@saraeissa4954]

@@LeeBeeDeeTree51 Exactly which is why im so confused why men are making video essay denoting that Rhaenyra isnt feminist enough for them? When did we female viewers or women ever claim she was feminist? We know more than anyone that breaking the status quo is difficult and we would never judge Rhaenyra for working for herself only. These hateful video essays against Rhaenyra are just fighting an invisible enemy, we like Rhaenyra as a human being that is flawed and not perfect, not as a "feminist" god.

[@kimiko6732]

@@blabla187 so pathetic of you to assume that, I hate men and I was raised by both loving parents

[@lordfreerealestate8302]

@@LeeBeeDeeTree51 Or that they care about the Dornish/First men they colonized and oppressed, or the lower classes, or any other marginalized group. Yet people do cheer her on like it's empowering for a power-hungry, self-serving woman to launch a bloody war for her own gain. Nope, she's a twisted villain, like most of the characters in the show.

[@extraterresrtial3086]

I think another way people paint rhaenyra as a feminist girl boss is using her scenes with daemon during the first 5 episodes. People use this contrast her with Alicent and say Alicent is jealous. That not only discounts how Alicent is forced into a marriage with an extremely older man and has not choices but also discounts how terrible daemon is. We know daemon is misogynist in how he treated his first wife. But even the show runner said that the interaction between rhaenyra and daemon in the pleasure house was what we today would see as violence. Daemon is significantly older than her and she admits in episode 7 that she was a child when that happened. It’s weird to see people try to reframe this as rhaenyra being sexually empowered, a girlboss, and having a better sex life to make her this feminist icon. Its a reframing of violence and grooming essentially and it’s gross.

[@sheenydonut]

the grooming agenda is pervasive and not only confined to popular media

[@kajamiletic3223]

I mostly agree with you, but I'm gonna say that Daemon's murder of his first wife isn't mysoginistic per se. Daemon is an equal opportunity killer, he simply kills those who stand in his way, gender doesn't enter into it. In fact, despite Daemon being a horrible person, I would say that he consistently treats women as equals and with the seriousness that they deserve. It's just that he treats EVERYONE horribly.

[@killeryhiltons8499]

Alicent isn’t innocent letting her son rape the servant girls and having many bastard children smh. Who the f says is empowering to be omg this fandom lol. Crazy …

[@theManishMuse]

Daemon isn’t a misogynist: he’s a pragmatist.

[@mohawkmeteor7189]

@@kajamiletic3223 Daemon went around calling his wife his 'Bronze Bitch' and constantly talked horribly about her, like saying sheep are prettier than the women of the Vale.

[@anikethchakraborty3238]

I rooted for Rhaenyra till she said "Thank you, father" and left with no remorse for her half-brother Aemond who lost an eye. I can understand why Alicent is mad at her.

[@nagorepalaciosdelafuente]

Not even the actress supported her there, she was completely in Alicent side there, she even said that she completely understood Alicent

[@SimonLacey-MySleekDesigns]

In the end it was an accident. Rhaenyra should have been a lot more sympathetic towards aemond.

[@umiboibozu]

@@SimonLacey-MySleekDesigns how does someone... accidently cut someones eye out? luke literally just slashed the shit out of it. its not like he tripped and just so happen to cut his eye lol.

[@SimonLacey-MySleekDesigns]

@@umiboibozu tru

[@holtimt]

How can she be sympathetic when he called her sons bastards?

[@whittenaw]

I think if Viserys was really serious about making Rhae the Queen, then he would have made her his hand (don't know if it's possible, but if she's going to be queen, why not) and ousted Alicent out of the small council every time a meeting was held. He would have ensured that she had her own force that was loyal to her so that she wasn't ousted the moment he died

[@Saktoth]

He's too soft and easily manipulated, he's the classic game of thrones 'good king', someone who is good, who ensures peace and prosperity, but does not do enough to stop more ambitious and cruel people from taking over.

[@whittenaw]

@@Saktoth agreed

[@HillsAliveYT]

I mean if he were serious about it he would have done SOMETHING besides just saying she should be queen, he's like one of those parents who just chucks their kid in the deep end of the pool to "teach them how to swim".

[@MissKashira]

Or at least put her on the small council. She was there for one meeting, spoke and they all looked at her like she was crazy. "Did the Birthing Hole speak? Are we allowing Birthing Holes to have opinions now? Is that a new thing?" He wanted to give her the crown, but didn't seem to believe in her ability to rule as a woman no more than anyone else at that table.

[@nunyabiznes33]

Someone mentioned Viserys should have also gathered the lords again to have them pledge loyalty to adult Rhaenyra (especially coz some of the lords that pledged support when she was a girl could have already died). This should have been done after Aegon II was born, to make it clear to everyone who his selected heir is.

[@lukesguywalker]

Ok I'm glad I'm not the only one who was laughing a bit at Rhaenyra asking her drugged out dad to defend her ... girl he can barely remember his name!

[@JL_Lux]

And yet she got what she wanted. Lmaooo driftmark is her child’s

[@ArchiduquesaMA]

for real! I was like "girl, you are awful why the fuck is people rooting for you"

[@titanblooded6222]

To be fair she did make the marriage pact with Rhenys. But on the other hand, how do you not ask the King to rule in your favor?

[@saraeissa4954]

What a stupid comment. MAN or WOMAN, people are allowed to ask their parents for help in their time of need

[@JL_Lux]

@Pedro Fernandes he’s the king. Wtf. It’s his job until he dies. He created this mess

[@lubnaalmallah]

Queen Alysanne was a real example for the feminist character in the Targeryan Line ,she ruled with her husband the king,wanted their older kid (their daughter) to be heir and later their grand daughter (the daughter of the king’s heir and his older son) She asked to make the first night tradition considered as a crime and and did a lot of stuff She was smart and wise and someone who took the whole responsibility as a Queen

[@TheMightyThor83]

They’re going to modify Rhaenyra’s character to be the hero in the HBO story. Anything from the book that is going to make her look bad will either be erased, barely mentioned, or made to be someone else’s fault to keep the feminist heroine narrative for her.

[@kekero540]

If Rhaenyra wanted freedom she could have it at any point. She’s a dragon rider for goodness sake. She could run off to Essos with a boy toy and be done with it all. The only thing keeping her in Westeros is her pride and ego.

[@kimiko6732]

You people know nothing about her

[@Gabriel-wn6oc]

@@kimiko6732 😂

[@lucasbelmonte2832]

@@kimiko6732Fucking hell. She literally talks about wanting to run away to essos and eat only cake in the first episode. But she couldn’t possibly give up all the power the throne would give her. God she’s a fictional character she’s never gonna sleep with you no matter how much of a white knight you are.

[@va9136]

She stayed because she promised her father, the King, that she would uphold the king to heir prophecy. Smh.

[@faisal5367]

@@va9136 this prophecy thing is made up only from the tv show. viserys and rhaenyra dont know and dont care shit about any prophecy at all. read the books.

[@timothylaiwg]

It's interesting to think that if Rhaenyra advocated for driftmark to pass through Laena to Rhaena (as Baela would be the Queen), she would have a stronger claim to the throne and may have avoided the dance since she set the precedents for primogeniture regardless of gender. And Lucerys would still hold driftmark through marriage

[@somersault1123]

It must have been funny during the writing process: HBO writers: "George, we're making Rhaenyra a girlboss for feminism. We're cutting all scenes of her being bad." George: "I don't know about that. I don't think the audience is going to relate to a spoiled princess. We don't really want to send a message that autocratic monarchy is a good thing as long as it's feminine- Ah, nevermind. It still looks good." Whispers, "These fools only edited out her more drastic actions. Instances of her being a narcissistic egomaniac are still in there."

[@smOVERCOMINGITALL]

What irritates me the most about everyone rooting for her is not that they are being honest about what and who Rhaenyra is, but that they ignore her flaws and attack alicent. Honestly, Rhaenyra is sneaky, sly and cunning with her selfishness. Alicent is more bold and upfront and choatic with it. I think many will fall into the trap like danny where they THINK she's a moral good, going to change the world type character and be HIGHLY disappointed when that doesn't happen. I actually think that she's far more selfish, greedy and just as bad as everyone else male or female than alicent is. The rules don't and never have applied to her while alicent is a living embodiment of "follow the rules or else." It's just crazy to me people think she can do no wrong, woe is Rhaenyra poor her when she's playing everyone around her more like a pawn than alicent could ever wish.

[@ayanna6327]

Alicent is many things, but bold and chaotic are not words I would associate with her. In fact, she actively wants peace, and says to Rhaenys that she wants to guide Aegon into being a good king.

[@kimiko6732]

Alicent abused 8 years old nyra, king made her heir and Otto was plotting her death before she was even married

[@farnesetbh8487]

@@ayanna6327 yeahh so much peace she instigated a war 💀💀💀💀

[@ayanna6327]

@@farnesetbh8487 She did not want a war though. She laid of Rhaenyra in Ep. 8, her intentions were not to overthrow her, and then changed in Ep. 9 when she led Aegon to usurpation. But even then, she is not like Otto who is calling for Rhae to be executed, she fights for peace terms instead. Were they good terms? No and Rhae has every right to refute them. But better than the alternative of Otto sending assassins to Dragonstone.

[@atro-city]

Alicent was the biggest victim of patriarchy, gave up her desires and was trapped in a marriage to an old dying sick man who does not even love her and tells her to her face that he still loves Aemma and who was never a father figure to his kids by Alicent, while Rhaenyra did everything according to her desire. Everyone was praising Rhaenyra for exploring her sexuality (as they should) but just ignored the abuse that a teenage Alicent was going through. That is what she meant when she said "where is sacrifice? where is duty?", and Rhaenyra called her self-righteous and these supposed "feminists" were like "what a crazy jealous b**** lmao". EDIT: I guess empathizing with Alicent means I am saying that she is a saint or something. I am not implying that Alicent is right and Rhaenyra is wrong. Both sides make sense, my point is that I don't appreciate people calling Alicent crazy for behaving the way she did after Aemond gets maimed, and her resentment makes sense. I guess I should have mentioned this before. Also, to the people who think that pointing Rhaenyra's flaws means I don't have empathy for her, please stop.

[@tvtda1]

This is why i'm a green and you touch on something complex at play in the sense that in this world and given our natural view of patriarchy its slightly celebrated outside of the narrative that Rhaenyra takes charge of her own sexuality as a woman. Whether it be her behavior with Criston or her refusal to deny herself daemon, as she wishes, along with the dominant tone she addresses daemon in consistently even as a youth, and his loyalty and subservience to her. There is much at play in the perception of her behavior but its also celebrated that she utilizes her power as she wishes. Theres an appeal that i dont think can be understood without delving deeper into all factors at play.

[@tripledigit4835]

A lot of the fan base are individuals making critiques and judgments of individuals in the show, yet fail to understand the systemic pressures and moulding of said individuals which dictates their actions, intentions and motivations. They also fail to understand why people of lower classes and in lesser positions of power feel contempt for the people above especially when the people above disregard sacred customs and laws due to the power they have while the people below due to their lack of power must submit to the customs and laws, regardless of willingness to obey

[@atro-city]

@@tvtda1 Daemon obviously respects her, and there is no denying that she is likable, though we cannot ignore that Daemon groomed her. Her not denying herself Daemon is not just about her desires though, its also about the fact that an upcoming war is inevitable and she needs Daemon on her side. She has not shown any leadership skills, and has been sulking ever since Alicent married her dad. She should be talking to people and leading them. Viserys should have arranged a 7 kingdom-wide tour for her as she is supposed to be the queen and the realm should get to know her as their leader who cares for them, like queen Alyssane come again, but they only know her as someone who sulks at Dragonstone. She is most definitely selfish, likable and charming, sure, but selfish too. She didn't even visit her dad for the past 6 years as he was on his deathbed and only comes to him when she needs his support.

[@arturk6977]

Why all are fixed on the OLD king. He wasn't old, he was older 10 or 15 years than his second wife. The reason he looked old and sick was due to him being sick. Something what people are not to be able to grasp.

[@atro-city]

@@tripledigit4835 I know, Jace literally tells his little brother that he should not care what his subjects think of him, as he is their ruler and they are sheep (Rhaenyra mentality). Of course everyone's actions make sense, just like they do in the real world, but understanding the social structure and knowing why someone does something amoral is incomplete without pointing out the flaws in them as well. You might as well say that they did nothing wrong.

[@SDG.12]

*Viserys: I love you all dearly!! Also Viserys: My Only child!! He kept saying let’s get along & proceeded to keep doing everything to make sure that’s impossible. Viserys is the real villain of this show.* Viserys knew having a male son after stubbornly naming his daughter heir would create an impossible situation. He knew his favoritism towards his daughter would fester resentment on the other side of his family. He won his own crown that way. Ppl forget he & Daemon were preparing for a civil war because the other claimant Rhaenys was a female. He didn't hesitate tobenefit from the tradition he trampled over. Seems like ppl can't compartmentalize between "loving father" (to one child) from "terrible king who made one bad decision after another". Viserys was the definition of Nero playing with his Lego set while Rome burned. Meanwhile, gaslight queen Rhae Rhae dragged a lepered corpse out just to have the rightful heir to Driftmark executed. *Big "Dad. Listen to me. You NEED to sign off these documents in my name RIGHT NOW" hospice bedside energy.*

[@sertorrhenclegane]

There are some flaws in your arguments. 1. Viserys was drugged to the gills when he made the "only child" comment. Having been under the influence of painkillers following a surgery, I can tell you that you will say some interesting things when under said influence. I guarantee you that he probably would've called Aegon or Aemond 'Baelon' if there was a scene with either one of them around him while he was drugged. 2. He didn't prepare for a war, Daemon did. There's no indication that he would've fought for his right to sit on the throne. Daemon, no doubt out of ambition, was the one who gathered an army. Viserys' actions during the Great Council were never chronicled or important enough to mention. 3. How was he a bad king? The realm was at peace for the 26 years he reigned (save for the conflict in the Stepstones, but you can lay that at Daemon and Corlys' door). No war, full treasury, pacified populace. I'd say that's a good reign. I concede that wasn't all his doing, but he certainly managed to keep that peace in that time. 4. He didn't alter the succession in the 20 years after he made his final choice. That's a statement of intent. End of story. 5. Why does everyone think he wasn't a loving father to his other children? There were scenes with him and Baby Aegon where you can tell he was attentive and loving to the child. We get the scene of him watching his sons and grandsons in the training yard, not unlike Ned Stark, who was one of the better fathers in the series. Just because we don't have scene after scene with him with his children by Alicent doesn't mean he was bad parent to them. The only proof is the scene where he interrogates Aemond for what he said. Oh no, he scolded an injured child, almost as if he was his disappointed father. Oh, wait... The man wasn't perfect, but your statements are simply wrong.

[@LeeBeeDeeTree51]

That's a savage assessment. It's hilarious and largely true.

[@JL_Lux]

Otto is the real villain

[@eadred9164]

@Ser Torrhen Clegane (1) His personal biases were well expressed in the show before he was drugged up. The "he was drugged up" thing is a weak excuse. (2) Daemon prepared for war with Viserys' tacit approval. Viserys would've absolutely gone with Daemon as he enabled Daemon in most of his hair brained immoral schemes 3) The realm being in peace depended more on external factors than the king's own mettle. he reigned in the time of a outside power vacuum. 4) No one debated the firmness of his intent. It does not change the causations of his actions. Or his daughter's treason. 5) Viserys not being a loving father is Fire and Blood cannon, it's not depended on them "not showing more scenes of him with his kids" in the show. Your argument here is basically "sure he's no Ned Stark, but we got one scene of him watching all the kids train in the yard". Not an inspiring argument. And deciding your son sitting with an eye hanging out of his socket was a good time to harshly interrogate him to protect Harwin's kids identities is totally just "disappointed father" behavior. We have different definitions of disappointed fathers. The man wasn't perfect, but your statements are simply wrong. - Those statements have quite a bit of merit & less gish gallop.

[@sertorrhenclegane]

@@eadred9164 1) I didn't say he wasn't biased; I was merely making a statement that being drugged makes you forget things and people. 2) Maybe, but it cannot be proven conclusively. 3) I conceded it wasn't all his doing, but since he didn't fuck the dog like so many other rulers have done in the past, I'm willing to cut the man a little slack. 4) It should. If people had simply went along with his intentions, the Dance wouldn't have happened. 5) Explain how he wasn't? Because we must've been reading two separate books. And how in the hell did he 'harshly interrogate' the boy? Because our definitions of torture must be deeply confused.

[@HolyknightVader999]

The thing is, if I was Rhaenyra, I wouldn't have burned bridges with Queen Alicent, in fact, I'd save myself for her son Prince Aegon. The idea of a female ruler is questionable to the people of Westeros, so I'd marry the king's firstborn son as a way to cement my rule. I'd also build up an alliance with Otto Hightower, since it's his recommendation that got me the position of heir in the first place. I'd build up my alliance with the Hightowers, marry Alicent's firstborn son with Viserys, mold the kid into what a king should be, so when the time comes and Viserys kicks the bucket, I'd have the strongest claim to the throne, being the king's anointed heir, married to his firstborn son.

[@detrik01]

Agreed. If Rhaenyra were to have entered into a marriage with Aemon back in episode 3 or around that timeframe, however distasteful that might be, Aemon could have been guided and influenced by two strong women in his life --- his mother and wife. Under such influence perhaps he could have guided Westeros for to be slightly less horrible.

[@hh-ug4ki]

And Alicent is not the villain people make her out to be! The mischaracterizion of Alicent by fans is so frustrating. She's the most layered and complex character there by now and people simplify, minimize her and her REAL reasons to act the way she does, analyzing her so shallowly... I could talk about this forever. She is a victim trying to SURVIVE in a society that doomed her from the beginning. She's trying to be as cold as calculative but you do keep seeing her "old self" shines through. Especially in episode 8. And you could tell Otto was not happy with it (camera turns to him every time Alicent and Rhaenyra interacted genuinely during the feast). Olivia Cooke is doing a PHENOMENAL job and honestly it sucks seeing viewers so biased (either because of reading the book, even though it's clear the show took a different approach, or by knowing of supposedly future events, that again, might change or not be her fault in the show) or influenced by social media to the point they completely miss Cooke's and the writers phenomenal work at showing us that she is not necessarily the villain people believe she is. I wish people tried putting themselves in Alicent's shoes. The girl was pimped by her father, basically maritally r worded for years ever since she was 15, was forced into motherhood and used as a baby machine for THE SOLE REASON OF GIVING THE KING MALE HEIRS, still continued to advocate for her friend Rhaenyra to be the queen despite all that up until her father's years of isolation and manipulation finally got to her, making her paranoid about her & her kids' safety with some pretty valid reasons. Then think of Viseris' treatment of her and her kids in comparison to Rhaenyra and her kids. How is she or her kids supposed to feel safe knowing if anyone from team black (like Daemon for example) ever tried to "eliminate" Rhaenyra's "rivals to the throne" - her kids, Viserys would not go that hard to protect them, because he always sides with Rhaenyra. She is a victim trying to survive in a world that belongs to the privileged and especially the MEN!

[@hh-ug4ki]

And while I do not think Rhaenyra is or should be blamed, I also get where Alicent comes from. People keep saying "She should blame her father" YOU'RE RIGHT, SHE SHOULD. BUT this also isn't how abusive relationships work... You'd be surprised what years of isolation, manipulation and gaslighting does to a person's mind. And especially in a parent/kid kind of relationships, especially as he was her only living family member. The trauma bonding and attachment, seek of validation is strong. And you could see it in episode 7 too in Alicent's conversation with Otto after the dagger incident. It was the first time she got validation from her dad.

[@scorpioj3]

And If Alicent did want her son on the throne for power, I cannot blame her for using that privilege for own good after everything she endured

[@Gallois59]

@@hh-ug4ki You see this with the eyes of someone within our present society. Allicent is not a rebell, she come from a great house and she know what's her duties that's why she have a grudge with Rhaenyra who doesn't take them as seriously. And yes Otto pimped her , but in this universe that is what noble houses do, they pimp their daughter, their son even, all for the sake of alliance and power. What better outcome for a noble lady than marrying the king ? She's no Arya, she's Sansa. Sansa was basically : "Let's GOOOO i m marrying the futur king !!" ( at first ....). To marry the king is the best outcome a noble woman could aspire in the world of westeros. The Velaryon tried to pimp Laena to Vyseris when she was actually 12 year old. So to some it up , Pimping is the norm in the nobles houses of westeros. Vyseris loved his wife, the one he lost, the one he see beyond the wall of death, he married Allicent due to his duty to the realm and a fair bit of grief and loneliness. Noble Women in westeros aren't the only ones forced to marry who they re told to marry. Daemon himself had to marry someone for whom he had no affection. So in a sense , she's victim of the circonstances, her position was strong for the period where Vyseris was alive, that's when he die that all hell break loose, because now she have to bend the knee to Rhaeynra and Allicent and her childs are basically at her mercy now, still it is nothing new as Rhaenyra was always meant to be the heir. It is a hard thing not to clinch your fist when come the time you have to release power, Otto was butthurt when he had to let Vyseris sit on his throne. Daemon would not attempt to eliminate Rhaenyra's rival , because they are the sons of his brother , to kill them is to be a kinslayer, something who is really shuned upon in the world of westeros. Aemond claimed Vaghar who was the dragon of his late wife, yet he did nothing. When a fight break during the last dinner of Vyseris you can see that he have no malice toward Aemond, only when Vyseris die and the greens take the crowns is when Daemon goes to "war mode", the Greens should have bend the knee. Allicent was put into this mess, not fully comprehending what it was, but at the death of Vyseris she could have simply bend the knee, she still had love for Rhaenyra she could have trusted her in not attempting to hurt her child, yet she did not chose to. She chose to play the Game.

[@ameacalliope8297]

Alicent is the books is the worst like Cersei she is not a victim . She is hungry for power like her father.

[@hh-ug4ki]

@@ameacalliope8297 but the show took a different approach so look at both as two separate works

[@lduddy]

Rhaenyra's problems stem from her youth actively spitting in the faces that could have helped alleviate and avoid the war. Before her marriage, before any bastards were born, she was actively insulting many of the houses that prop up the kingship. As Renly said in the GoT season 2 (I do not recall if this was said in ACoK but it would still be true), a claim or a birthright make a king, it is the men who hold the banners behind him that makes a king. Starting with Rhaenyra's selection of Cole to the Kingsguard, sse mocked and dismissed the other candidates for lack of combat experience and prowess. While those are certainly big considerations, she actively ignored and dismissed the most powerful houses to raise up a relatively lowborn. The Kingsguard is largely a ceremonial position, a glorified doorman; but the weight of that ceremonial position is in the legacy that the appointment brings and in line with the value system a monarchy brings. Their prime virtues are not the same as people who live in a republican society, and to apply republican virtues in analyzing their actions will distort and misrepresent the rational for a person's choices when looking in this work of fiction. Monarchies by necessity value the virtues of honor and duty above all others, since the transfer of power is through bloodlines. Republican virtues of equality and merit do not apply. The next major insult she comes when she was at Storm's End. By sitting and casting judgement of suitors on the Lord's chair, Rhaenyra actively insulted all suitors, and reinitiated a famous blood feud. From that chair, Rhaenrya was acting on the authority of Storm's End in the eyes of the people in attendance, and by extension the Baratheons. Her actions left Lord Baratheon to mend and repair his relations with those people, many were his vassals. Rhaenrya's casual dismissals and insults had destabilized the Stormlands, and lost or at least gives pause any support from those people to support Rhaenrya. After all, it is those people who hold the banners that makes a king (queen). The worst example of Rhaenrya's actions was her one one one interactions with the Lannisters, who are arguably the second or third most powerful house, and by extension potential ally, at the time. Rhaenrya's youth at the time is no excuse for that world. To use a phrase that is common in US Vice Presidential contests, Rhaenrya is a heartbeat away from the throne at all times. Even an infant heir is always a heartbeat away from inheriting a parent's power and responsibilities. To the rest of the world, Rhaenrya's actions are impulsive, arbitrary, and unreliable. It is no wonder why the Greens rally the most powerful houses and armies, while the Blacks get mostly the lesser or more isolated houses. Too many people are projecting their values into the actions by these characters, when their motivations are utterly alien to our real world values.

[@JL_Lux]

Her side wins and they have more dragons. No offense to those families but they don’t have dragons

[@marcusanark2541]

Finally someone with good sense.

[@Diarybyvini]

@@JL_Lux as far as I know from the show till now 3 dragon riders on the green side(only two(Aegon + Aemond) useful) Vs 10 dragons on black side(8 strong riders excluding viserys and Aegon, the young boys). I think Blacks suffered bigger loss, winning but at what cost!

[@jaminavestajugo3456]

It's fun to root for the spunky rebel girl. But in the real world, of course it's better to have a strategy for your rebellion. Rhaenyra was a teen when a lot of this went down. However, one of the big flaws of a feudal monarchy like this one is that the actions of immature kids can have major consequences. She matures a bit in later seasons, but the consequences of her actions in earlier seasons when she was most reckless come back to bite her.

[@lduddy]

@@jaminavestajugo3456 That is the one flaw in the show I see. Rhaenyra has been presented as the protagonist at least in season 1, thus we see largely her point of view. However, to muddy the waters the show would have benefited from more of the Greens perspective and their allies hammering out those flaws. The original run of GoT did pretty well by the middle seasons expanding and humanizing the earlier antagonists and presented their points of view. The charges laid out by Vaemond Velaryon are absolutely correct, especially in the context of the show where the issue of the bastards are cut and dry as opposed to the book where it is much more ambiguous.

[@LeeBeeDeeTree51]

I couldn't agree more. Rhaenyra is for herself and her male brood only. Everyone else exists to service her ambition and are expendable when they don't. The fact that she is smart and smooth with how she maneuvers doesn't make her a heroine. Both she and Daemon are painted in a much more favorable light than they appear in the books. Even the actresses who play her acknowledge her faults more than most viewers. There is the sense of Targaryen entitlement, killing or turning a blind eye to murder when it suits her and lying through her teeth. A really balsy, feminist woman would own her choices. A really balsy woman would care about the fortunes of other women. Rhaenyra doesn't. And she calls treason when it suits her purposes and shields her from any accountability for her actions. She and her charismatically thuggish husband have found a way for her to have her cake and eat it too. And no. I don't ride for Team Green.

[@tvtda1]

Corly cares for the power of his families name the same as Rheanyra and The blacks do. Thats why he's willing to name one of the boys heir to driftmark. Having someone of their status and prestige benefits the literal Velaryon names future. He's brother is more caught up with the importance of blood.

[@arturk6977]

What feminist? lol! All feminist are balsy because they are given privileges and protection from a society. All they do are get angry and yell. Aslo books are writen in this way that everyone can read it they way they want. They are not a canon or ultimate truth.

[@mercuriology45]

i mean not rlly i disagree, Rhaenyra is not being painted favorably than in the books, here in the show she is also shown to be quiet selfish and entitled. Also you have to remember that Rhaenyra was once loved by a lot of ppl, she was known as the “realms delight”. Rhaenyra started doing bad shit when the dance started and when she started to rule, im tired of you ppl saying “oh she is being portrayed as nicer” the show is portraying a lot of characters as nicer because they are given them depth. Also f and b is not a accurate book, its mostly told by past tales not by ppl who were actually there.

[@LeeBeeDeeTree51]

@@tvtda1 True. But one thing doesn't cancel out the other. There's plenty of destructive ambition to go around. As Rhaenys said, the ambition that she and Corlys had for their children to sit atop the iron throne as consorts, has not brought them good fortune. Rhaenys is probably the only person who realizes that every time someone in her family dies, it is to the advantage of Rhaenyra and her offspring.

[@denisdiderot6779]

@@mercuriology45 Take a look at how Vaemond dies in the books compared to how he dies in the show. In the books Rhaenyra has Daemon chop off his head and then fed his corpse to her dragon, all because he spoke the truth. Rhaenyra's cruelty and ruthlessness is on full display here. She reacts this way precisely because she knows the allegations to be true. In the show, however, Vaemond comes across as a power hungry schemer who rightly had his head sliced in half for insulting the would-be Queen. I mean, there's a reason why a lot of fans view her as a feminist hero of sorts... it's because that's how the show portrays her and Rhaenys. Also, Daemon kills his wife in cold blood and you still have people cheering for him as some sort of brother-loving badboy. It's very clear that the show seeks to downplay how awful the Blacks are and drum up the evil of Greens.

[@Skrzacik]

I've already seen many people saying unironically "Whatever Rhaenyra is going to do it's good, justified and I support her", so yeah... most of the fandom seems to be completely crazy xD

[@saraeissa4954]

Exactly! Because we are stanning a fictional character who is a flawed human being. Whatever Rhaenyra does in this fictional world im on her side because I like her character and im rooting for her. Why do ASOIAF fans have such a problem with us when we never even called her a feminist or any bullshit. They just want to make video essays about how a flawed character is flawed... DUH!

[@Skrzacik]

@@saraeissa4954 I have zero problems with liking and rooting for a flawed character, hell, my favourite character is Aemond so I absolutely relate. What I'm talking about are people who claim Rhaenyra is a perfect good person who doesn't do any wrong because they like her xD

[@LeeBeeDeeTree51]

@@Skrzacik THIS! Love flawed characters all you want. But don't pretend that they are without major faults. And yes, SOME Rhaenyra fans gush about her like she was the most admirable woman to ever draw breath, OR they see and complain about the flaws in everyone BUT her.

[@Skrzacik]

@@LeeBeeDeeTree51 I completely agree, mate! One of the examples for me would be the aftermath of the kid's fight and Alicent's outburst in episode 7. Vast majority of people is noticing how Alicent's in the wrong and quote Rhaenyra "Now they see you as you are". But, at least to me, they seem blind to Rhaenyra's own flaws, because in my opinion she def does show some too. For her own interest she wants to "question sharply" (torture) her 10-year old little brother who just was maimed. For all of Alicent's flaws, during the show Rhaenyra has proven to be entitled, privileged and selfish. But some people would eat me alive if they heard me saying that :P

[@Voidwurm1701]

What's creepy is they keep using the same exact words: "Anything she does from here is justified." Is this cope or do they legit not know what's coming?

[@user-luciddream]

theres this cage allegory i love. rhaenyra and every other woman are stuck in their cage. rhaenyra is gifted a key by her father, she opens it and then immediately locks the door behind her but she doesnt actually leave the cage, she is just going from a small one to a larger one.

[@dnycebushton5008]

In what way did she lock the cage?

[@user-luciddream]

@@dnycebushton5008 it is written in law that women cannot become queen over their brothers, viserys named her heir but neither viserys or rhaenyra actually intend to change the law to make it so all future daughters of the king/queen have an equal standing in the line of succession as the sons. rhaenyra has no plans of changing society to benefit women with the power she has. by locking the cage i mean she isnt going to help any other woman escape and come with her. rhaenyra views herself and was viewed by viserys (due to having no other heirs at the time and feeling guilty for letting aemma die) as the exception to the law, there was no plan to allow any queens to rule after her and there is no plan to liberate the women of westeros.

[@4549uef]

@@user-luciddream she did consider herself to be the exception, which is a fucking joke 😂 even baby Maelor had a better claim than her, and the King's word is invalid once he's dead, Look at how Maegor and Jaehaerys became kings, they put their nephew/niece aside and took it, even Rhaenyra's own son did it with his niece and these 2 girls along with Rhaenys had no brothers but Rhaenyra acted like she was the exception while there was 3 elephants in the room, What was GRRM on when he got this idea? it will have been more convincing if Rhaenyra was the 1st grandchild of Viserys (from his 1st dead son) or if Alicent was his mistress and their 4 kids were all bastards, that way her claim would have been more legitimate and convincing but this situation was not a Matilda vs Stephen, it's something we never saw outside of Dorne, and even Rhaenyra and Corlys themselves disinherited women for the sake of male bastards with 0 right, but the Greens are supposed to be wrong? Lol Joffrey and Cersei would have loved the Blacks for their beliefs 🤣

[@RobertKoch-rg7iy]

@@user-luciddream This. And it rings truer when you know what happens in the books.

[@maggyfrog]

didn't arianne martell already confirmed in adwd that viserys would have changed the rules of succession if nobody challenged rhaenyra's claims? i think westeros acknowledges the history that happened which led to the dance of the dragons and that they definitely understood the consequences if rhaenyra remained the heir and succeeded viserys without contest. it's book-canon that what viserys tried to do would have had a real ripple effect on westeros if george wrote this as part of arianne martell's justification in trying to crown myrcella and as part of the dornish plot as a whole.

[@trueblueedits4673]

THANK YOU. Alicent was RIGHT ON THE MONEY when she said "you flout all to do as you please". Rhaenyra isn't a feminist icon. She's just a person with power who has personal interests and just so turns out to be a woman. As much as some of Alicent's actions were rather extreme, they are all either 1. necessities or 2. valid emotional responses, at least in my opinion. Alicent between the two of them is the more feminist icon worthy one. She got dealt a terrible hand and through her own strength rose up to preserve her children's lives, herself and her house. She tried to negotiate a marriage between Aegon II and Rhaenyra before springing to more extreme actions. She's more self-made (starting as a pawn and eventually becoming queen, not just in name, but truly in her actions in terms of managing the realm and court) than Rhaenyra in so many ways (Rhaenyra wouldn't even be where she is without her father's poor decisions). That is NOT to say Alicent is feminist because none of them are, but I just find it strange that the fandom hand waves everything bad Rhaenyra does and blames Alicent for everything when Alicent does what she does to protect her children when no one would. She rose up through her own strength in a way Rhaenyra never had to. Edit: This is just my extra ramblings but I don't think Alicent was actually "jealous" of Rhaenyra in the way people make it out to be. I think she's more deeply disappointed and disgusted by Rhaenyra because Rhaenyra got dealt such a fucking good hand yet she completely fumbles the bag in the most crucial moments. Like Rhaenyra having 1 bastard is a terrible mistake but 3 is being bold as fuck for no reason other than "haha I can do it and I'm sort sighted". I think it's very clear HoTD Alicent's beat is one of deep-seated disappointment and frustration of "If I was her, none of this bullshit would happen". WHICH HONEST TO GOD SO JUSTIFIED. I too would be pissed as fuck if the person I once saw as a best friend fucked up this bad after backstabbing me by lying and isolating me in King's Landing for years by removing my father from court (wow the feminism really dried up there for Rhaenyra when it benefits her).

[@deboraron2794]

Yes she’s just more privileged. I totally agree and loved this video

[@dnycebushton5008]

There are ZERO feminist in this show. It boils it down to which character you would rather spend time with, if you were in their world. Alicent comes off as stuck up, judgmental, nosey, and prudish...not many would enjoy the company of that sort of person. I wouldnt. Yes, Rhaynera is fos, but at least she acknowledges itto herself & her inner circle. Alicent doesnt think her poop stinks & that she has never done anything wrong...she had people murdered!!! She is no hero either. I think of Rhayneras actions come of as more natural and less sinister, I guess. Thats why its soooo good! Theyre all SHYT

[@trueblueedits4673]

@@dnycebushton5008 I never said she's a perfect feminist icon. But she is much more of one than Rhaenyra. There are elements to Alicent that are quite feminist (and elements that aren't ofc). And I think Alicent would be rather interesting to converse with but maybe that's just me

[@Chris.Smith420]

Literally King Aegon IV had like 16 children, he didnt care if it was bold, he didn't think it was bold to then advocate for his bastard children over his true born ones, nor did he feel any boldness legitimizing them all on his deathbed. This is not a point that should be argued, Rhaenerya didn't "backstab" Alicent by 1) sleeping with Daemon or Cristin Cole, 2) Removing Otto as the hand. How exactly is there any sort of plot agaisnt Alicent there when they werent even in conflict yet? She removed Otto, or more so she advocated for her father to remove him, because she has an issue being spied on. Which teenager do you know who woud take kindly to being spied on? Alicent is certianly sympathetic and people can relate to her no one said otherwise. Jealous isnt even the correct word, the irony in them being called "the greens" is because of envy , not jealousy. Jealousy is when something WE ALREADY HAVE feels threatened, i.e. you feeling like you will loose your partner because they have a friend of the opposite gender. Envy, is WANTING SOMETHING someone else has because they dont have it themselves. The Hightowers wanted the throne for their own ambition. Hence, the Hightower's name of "the greens". Alicent WISHES she had the power because SHE FEELS she can do beter. Jealousy is not envy, Alicent has done, only at this current point in time, more damnable offenses than gaslighting, or does working with a sociopath to get almost an entire house murdered, then not immedietly being honor bound to spill beans not classify as worse than lies? No one is innocent here, and I dont know many who would knowingly call anyone in this story a femenist hero, or does no one remember princess Shireen literaly saying the same thing? No one can be a feminist hero in a story with no good guys.

[@PerfectDark0]

Rhaenyra didn’t lie to Alicent. She literally didn’t fuck Daemon that time. And if Otto was more accurate with the slander he was peddling against Rhaenyra he would have continued to be hand. But even Viserys was recognizing Otto’s self interest before he removed him as hand. To put that all on Rhaenyra is absolutely silly.

[@jimmyfaulkner1855]

Does anyone unironically think Rhaenyra or even Daenerys are revolutionary feminists lol?

[@theavidgamer6213]

If only you can see how the internet views both these characters, especially in cesspools like Twitter.

[@user-luciddream]

people genuinely do

[@cardd1577]

How dare you not to support your cute female warlord, are you some kind of patriarchal supporter?

[@harsh_1910]

I would say 90-95% of the audience is made up of casual viewers who either just look at things from a very surface level and straightforward standpoint as "presented" and then look at the memes and discussions that are made by the aforementioned mob mentality that includes things like Ignoring the bad deeds by characters they like which resulted in the white knighting and glorification of characters like arya, ned, robb, dany etc and antagonizing characters they don't like and scrutinizing every little bit they do whether they deserve it or not which led to hate for characters like theon, sansa, catelyn etc and biases like that are only the baseline of it The short answer is yes, overwhelming majority do think that

[@Saktoth]

I mean a lot of people buy into the girlboss thing, female drone pilots etc. Like a lot of people really think that's the world they want to fight for, more female billionaires.

[@Mr_Mcgee_]

Good forms of art and media should have characters that we can both sympathize with and critique - on both sides. I think what I’ve been enjoying so much about HOTD is that, in their own way, everyone thinks they are acting in the “best interest of the realm”, even when it is so obvious clear everyone is acting in their own self interest. At this point, both Rhaenyra and Aegon have a legitimate claim to the throne. While Aegon “by the laws of gods and men” has a claim since he is the first born son, Rhaenyra likewise has a strong claim by virtue of being named heir. You can genuinely see why each side (the blacks and the greens) believes the other is stealing what is “rightfully” theirs. That saddest part (for the realm, the drama is great for us viewers) is that both Aegon and Rhaenyra would be *AWFUL* monarches. Neither has a true sense of duty to the realm (aside from Aegons prophecy), and both would certainly rule from the chair with absolute power with little regard for their subjects. Rhaenyra has already told us as much, and Aegon.. well, I think it’s pretty self explanatory. This is what we need MORE of, two sides neither completely good or bad. It not only makes the conflict more interesting, but it helps to discourage fans from blindly supporting either side because “they are a feminist!”, because let’s be honest, modern themes of “left vs right” have no place in a drama based in medieval fantasy. I think what HOTD has been able to achieve without explicitly making itself an allegory to our modern world is part of its charm, considering that these days it feels like every show has some broad allegory to our “modern problems”, which in my opinion reflects that the writers aren’t able to formulate their own original conflict - and while a succession crisis is by no means “original” on its own, what HOTD has been able to do with making both sides sympathetic and terrifying has made for some of the best TV in a decade.

[@maggyfrog]

yes, this is the best way to go through the show. alicent is not the great role model that people who hate rhaenyra seem to project, just by the sheer reasoning that rhaenyra isn't so great. actually, if we are going by laws, as in viserys has clearly changed the laws of succession by naming rhaenyra his heir, the greens are technically overruling a king's decision. and if alicent in particular is really standing up for the law, she should recognize that since the strong boys are bastards, rhaenyra's rightful heir is aegon 3, rhaenyra's and daemon's legitimate first-born regardless of gender (because viserys changed the law already). this extreme view of alicent as this upstanding law-abiding citizen is totally way-off in terms of how george writes characters, because the biggest irony in alicent's character is her own hypocrisy, which i think is a credit to how the show executed that. alicent is a hypocrite just as rhaenyra is also a hypocrite. aegon 2 lost his claim the moment daemon and rhaenyra started having legitimate kids.

[@namedrop721]

Amen, thank you for not being an idiot

[@orionh5535]

@@maggyfrog So the moral here, the king should of married off his daughter to his own brother from the start!

[@maggyfrog]

@@orionh5535 LOL omg that's exactly why george made them obligate incestuous 🤣

[@Mr_Mcgee_]

@@maggyfrog Alicent is claiming that Rhaenyra isn’t heir because Aegon is, it doesn’t matter whether her kids are bastards or true born in that particular instance - the fact that she has bastards is more so to discredit her character so the lords of the realm will rally behind the Greens. Sure it matters if Rhaenyra were to ascend the throne, but the Greens don’t plan on letting that happen (from what I can gather using only the show as a source of info). Ultimately, it doesn’t matter whether Rhaenyra and Daemon have true born children in Alicents (and the realms) eyes, since most think a woman shouldn’t inherit over a man, period, which would make Aegon II heir followed by Aemond (the true born sons of the king). In terms of succession, Rhaeyra’s children would only be heir if Aegon and Aemond both died without true born children. I think the implication (from the POV of the Green’s) is that the king doesn’t posses the power to change the laws of succession, Otto even says the laws of inheritance are “Laws of Gods and Men” (notice Gods are first) and it is no secret the hightowers are devout. Not to mention that, again as Otto had said, the lords of the realm will rally behind Aegon whether or not he wants for the throne, which will force Rhaenyra to eliminate Aegon and Aemond and any sons they may have, which as I mentioned, would unequivocally make her children next in line for the iron throne regardless of which method of succession is used.

[@ArchiduquesaMA]

she literally had one job as a royal and that is to not bare bastards. And people hate Alicent for protecting the royal house? she did more for house targaryen than Rhaenyra

[@kimiko6732]

Hightowers were plotting against her before her children were born

[@alexross1816]

Rhaenyra's whole plight reminds me, oddly enough, of an episode of Smiling Friends. Rhaenyra: You think I'm evil? *Starts sobbing* Alicent: Wait, were you not trying to pass off your bastards as actual heirs to powerful positions? Rhaenyra: No I was, but you didnt have to be so mean!

[@dhruv9744]

This video nails Rhaenyra's character. She's not a revolutionary, shes just as selfish as everyone else.

[@kimiko6732]

Still better than Aegon

[@javierlopez9789]

​@@kimiko6732both were bad rullers.

[@Tormund_Giantsbrain]

(SPOILER) (SPOILER) (SPOILER) I expected them to set the Blacks up as clear protagonists at this stage. We need a "maan, I can't stand the Lannisters!!" phase for the sense of Rhaenyra's betrayal to really sink in later (not saying Hightowers & Lannisters are same thing, just that they're at a similar dynamic in the viewer's eye). I think the legacy of this show will ultimately depend on how convincingly they can turn the audience against Rhaenyra's reign of 6 months which was erased from history. This time there's no excuse to fumble the "ends up being the worse tyrant" arc. In that case the early season will only serve to heighten this disillusionment. *Which is the point.* Now, will the Slay Kween stans ever turn on her or will they just blame the smallfolk when they Storm the Dragonpit and overthrow her in an actual revolution? I don't know. This is already a pretty good show. How they pull off the turn will decide if it goes down as a classic.

[@merrittfigure2924]

Bingo. Spot on. Them being the clear cut protagonists should only serve to highlight their later treachery. That is exactly what it should be in the best case scenario. As of now I'm pretty hopeful this time this show can pull it off. But then again it's a different level of stannery with these Hashtag Daemyra stans lol.

[@Jj-px5qc]

I've seen people on twitter already blaming the small folk with the latest episode 💀

[@marcusanark2541]

@@Jj-px5qc They were literally pushed on by armed men under the hand of the king orders, these people are stupid.

[@leomullin9192]

This was what I was thinking too because as of now it has been pretty whitewashed for the Blacks.

[@joshuahalland1211]

@@merrittfigure2924 Agreed with this!

[@coolchristiangirl190]

I agree with everything you said, especially that she doesn’t have to be a feminist role model. I think the issue is that the people behind HOTD sees her that way. In one after show one of the producers said how Rhaenyra was pro open marriage thru her agreement with Laenor. I didn’t see that at all primarily because in our world the two would never date each other.

[@Saktoth]

Yeah, one of the producers said it's 'punk princess' against 'women for Trump' but the actresses when told they were playing a 'punk princess' said 'what does that even mean?!'. Luckily there are a lot of other people working on it to inject nuance into the story.

[@7Nebulae7]

I hate how the show creators are trying to sell their own values and view points to the audience, especially when what they are saying is not evident in the show itself. Rhaenyra can be, and is, a great female character even without being pro open marriage or being a feminist etc.

[@user-luciddream]

@@Saktoth i love that olivia cooke also rejected the woman for trump idea. sometimes i think the actors understand the characters more than the producers lmao.

[@MissKashira]

If Rhaenyra proposing an open marriage was progressive, then Margaery suggesting they ask Loras to come help was downright communist. 🤣 What people are ignoring is that Laenor is a man, he can fuck around regardless. Sure people would prefer he fuck around with women, but there is literally nothing Rhaenyra could do to stop him. What her proposal actually changes is HER ability to fuck around. Women are not held to the same standards as men and while Laenor sleeping with men might make people pity Rhaenyra, her sleeping with men is literal treason. Women of her time were beheaded for affairs where their husbands could father bastards all over the place and that was expected. Her infidelity puts the line of succession into doubt, so really her offer was, "Hey, I won't nag you for doing what we both know you're free to do anyway, and I'm gonna do some treason and make you a cuck, cool? Cool." That's not feminism, that's destroying people's lives for your own happiness and pleasure. Now the whole court has to play Emperor's New Clothes when looking at them kids, and people are literally dying and losing tongues so she can get that good good. What do these people think feminism is? When a woman looks out for herself above everyone else?

[@stoneheart8231]

@@user-luciddream I keep seeing people bring up this women for Trump shit, without acknowledging that Olivia herself was like "fuck no I’m not doing that". Trying to apply modern day politics to 120 AC Westeros is so fucking dumb and redundant. The war is not one of ideology but of personal ambitions.

[@aicchi1234]

I think the reason why people think Alicent is some 'Women For Trump-esque' character is because they failed to flesh her out without involving Rhaenyra. They cut out her wedding scene and the scene of her preparing for it. What were her thoughts during and of the wedding? How did she feel when she first got pregnant? Why didn't we get scenes of her as she is and why is that most of her scenes has to revolve around the Targaryens? It's like they didn't want her to be a person; she's just a roadblock for Rhaenyra. In GOT, we get those scenes with Cersei where she exists outside of just opposing whoever needs opposing. She gets to exist as Cersei and not just a roadblock to Sansa or Margaery or Daenerys. In HOTD, it just feels like they really just want to shove Rhaenyra down our throats and hate Alicent.

[@RRC904]

Another thing is that we never saw her giving birth - and like, please stop with the Birthjng scenes, please, but at the same time… like Alicent is the obvious choice to show exactly how damaging a pregnancy can be without the woman necessarily having to die. She is the example of what happened the most in Arranged Marriages; bearing a child you did not necessarily want and did not want to conceive with the father. It would go along way to show how different it is from literally every single woman on this show that gave birth to the child of a man she loved. I dunno man, while they have softened Alicent from the book they also didn’t soften her enough wrt to what they do with Rhaenyra.

[@notyetawomen5257]

I heard they filmed Rhaenyra helping Alicent put on her wedding dress and it was apparently a heart-breaking scene between the two girls. I also wished they flesh out more of Alicent's character too.

[@jyuts4359]

Honestly, if the show respects the viewers and acknowledges what Rhaenyra and Daemon are: arrogant, egotistical, powerhungry, politically incompetent and toxic with some few redeeming qualities (like Lannister twins) I wouldn't complaint. Actually, I would enjoy Rhaenyra's stupid and evil decisions like I enjoyed Cersei and Joffrey because it is entertaining. But directors think the people are idiots (there are stupid fans unfortunately) and try in making her in some kind of an icon. Imagine manipulative and misoqynistic Cersei a feminist icon? Oh, wait there is 7-8th seasons...

[@ArchiduquesaMA]

the problem is people portraying her a heroin and everyone else as evil, when she's just as hypocrite as everyone

[@ismahanomar4169]

The green were more evil in the book and in the show they had to rewrote their story to make them more humanly. So yeah the green are more evil

[@elisebrodeur-jacobs5215]

I hate it when she is compared to Dany. Rhaenyra did nothing for anyone but herself.

[@javierlopez9789]

I mean Daenerys proved herself to be incredibly selfish as well, she only wanted the throne for herself and screw everyone else, but yeah they are still diferent

[@SamudroEntertainment]

Just started watching the video, but I am just so confused why people defend what Rhaenyra did to Criston Cole. She abused her higher position over him to coerce Cole into having sex with her. She literally locked the door on him. If he had refused (which he tried several times) she would likely have gone to Viserys and had Cole ejected from the King’s Guard, or possibly executed. Isn’t that exactly what happens today, where bosses force secretaries to have sex with them to keep their jobs or get promotions? Is it only wrong if it’s a man doing it to a woman? Rhaenyra is not your hero.

[@ismahanomar4169]

Criston is creep who was grooming rhaenyra since when she was 8 years old. He can die all he want. I hate him

[@jordanhowe188]

You just earned yourself a very happy subscriber. Your videos deconstructing the popular fan perceptions of HOTD are consistently excellent, as are all your other videos. Something that a lot of viewers miss about Viserys defending Rhaenyra and her children so stringently is that it blatantly parental favoritism, as well simply the wrong tactical maneuver. Which only makes the last episode even more tragic: Viserys uses all of his strength and all of his power of speech to make peace within his family, and he still doesn’t actually solve or even address the main problem. He has been a neglectful father to Alicent’s children, and he has done nothing but spoil Rhaenyra and ignore the truth about her children. Even without the Hightower’s scheming, Rhaenyra’s reign was destined to be riddled with strife. Whether it would have been as bad as the Dance of Dragons is impossible to say, but division was inevitable.

[@anitat9727]

@@dreamshakejunya Viserys chose who he married. And yes he was under pressure to remarry. So he likely would have. Every noble house would shove partners in his face. He chose a 15 year old Hightower

[@Alex-mn1fb]

I was so disappointed with the demented standoms inability to allow for the wider audience to really learn from the HoTD story and its nuance, maybe to broaden their own worldview, question their preconceived notions, and perhaps learn something. The entire fandom discussion quickly descended into Gaslight Gatekeep Girlboss stanning of Rhaenyra and Daemon.

[@LeeBeeDeeTree51]

Hill's Alive, please do a video on the parental favoritism as displayed in HOTD by the Targ bros. Despite saying he loved everyone at the family dinner, Viserys did seem to love Rhaenyra more than his other children simply because she was the daughter of his one true love. At least that's what he implied when he called her his only child. Likewise, Daemon seems to barely have met or acknowledged his daughters and yet he's cheered on as some big-hearted loving dad simply he because he capes for the sons of the woman he's always wanted. That doesn't exactly make him father of the year. Loving SOME of your children because they are male or because you like their mother better is pretty rank.

[@HillsAliveYT]

Yeah I will definitely tackle this idea either in one video or in different videos about the kids because JFC Viserys being a deadbeat is legitimately one of the cornerstones of this entire clusterfuck.

[@LeeBeeDeeTree51]

@@HillsAliveYT That's great. I look forward to it. Also, while you're at it in assessing parenting, please don't let Daemon off the hook. He's been given major props for loving his stepsons as much as his sons with Rhaenyra, yet he seems to ignore his daughters. I understand that Daemon IS NOT the warm and cuddly type. But something with him and his female children seems......... off. And it seems to have been done on purpose by the show runners. First there was the remark by Rhaena when they were in Pentos that her father ignores her. Considering how little we saw of his life in Pentos, this seems to have been an odd remark for them to show if it didn't have any significance to further developments. Was this foreshadowing something? Then the fact that he delivered the news about their mother's death to his daughters at arms length like a person who barely knew them, seems cold-hearted even for a person who is uncomfortable with displays of emotion. The fact that we know an embrace by him and his daughters was cut out of that episode, makes it appear that an attempt at showing coldness intended. Finally, his daughters sat sadly alone at their mother's funeral with only their grandmother and Rheanyra - who herself is no warm and cuddly type - seeming to notice them. In fact, he was more concerned about defending Rhaenyra with a sarcastic laugh when Vaemond was throwing shade by speaking about authentic bloodlines in Valyrian, than he was at noticing his kids WHO HAD LOST THEIR MOTHER. Am I the only person who thinks this is weird even for Daemon who we are always being told for all his faults, loves his family? Is it that he is like Viserys and is incapable of loving the children of a woman who wasn't the great love of his life? Or is it because they are girls? Both are pretty heartless reasons, even in a feudal society that valued males over female children.

[@siran424]

@@LeeBeeDeeTree51 Daemon is probably the worst kind of scum in this story. A thoroughly reprehensible character. I wonder what his fanatics would say when he abandons Rheanyra for an underage girl.

[@LeeBeeDeeTree51]

@@siran424 Ouch. 🤣 People project their own wishes and feelings on to the characters. Some will no doubt find a way to excuse anything and everything he does going forward.

[@namai-ki9681]

I understand that Rhaenyra is not in the position to change society as a whole. It still urks me that she always gets her way and actively uses people at her will while never taking accountability though. She just struck me as a very unlikable character.

[@Widelongfaces]

After just reading the book, its sadly obvious that the showrunner chose to paint Rhaenera in a much more favorable light and will probably omit some some more distasteful character traits moving forward. The book as far as I am concerned is already skewed towards the blacks but the show seems to not even try to make the two sides equal, Rhaenera's kids are innocent victims while Allicent's are debauched and psychopathic.

[@franjay5585]

Well the best term to describe Allicent’s kids is damaged in my opinion. Would Aemond be the way he is if he wasn’t tormented by the other siblings? Helaena is decent. Aemond only snapped at the dinner scene because Lucerys was taunting him with a mocking smile when the pig was served. Rhaenyra has no problems with ‘sharply questioning’ a child. Daemon also killed his wife, put his niece in a very damaging position and so on. I think the show has done a good job personally.

[@HillsAliveYT]

Yeah, while I can actually ride with a lot of the book-to-show changes because the book is supposed to be written from the in-universe POV of a someone who grew up in an outrageously misogynistic society and wasn't actually around for any of the events that are being chronicled, I feel like they made Rhaenyra almost bizarrely toothless. I mean, the fact that she went to beg Viserys for help with the Velaryon issue when the dude is barely even mentally or physically on the same plane of existence really negated her power and relevance to a hilarious degree, they seem very afraid to actually have her take actions on her own.

[@naimaahmed9730]

I think it can be argued that the differences between alicent and Rhaenyra’s children is parenting, jace and Luke have the laenor and harwin blended family situation and they are more morally good characters and Harwin probably helps with their training keeping them away from Cole. where as viserys is a terrible dad who doesn’t even know he has kids who aren’t rhae and aegon, Aegon and Aemond are being trained by Criston who is a psycho, and alicent kinda rly hates her kids espically Aegon.

[@theavidgamer6213]

I don't think the show does this. I believe it's just the fans viewing it from a disturbing perspective. In fact, I'd even argue that the show makes us think of whether or not Rhaenyra is really that good (such as when keeping Laenor alive, but also killing a servant for it, as well as her conduct during that whole shitshow with Aemond losing his eye). I disagree even more on how you believe the show depicts Rhaenyra's children. The show has frequently depicted her kids as entitled and cruel little shits. I guess we'll not be certain whose side the show takes until it actually ends, but so far, I'd say it's fairly critical of Rhaenyra and the Blacks.

[@hamsters7760]

It's an odd equation, just because I feel the show makes Alicent far more nuanced and also less culpable versus the books. I feel like it's leaning into both women being unprepared and lessened by the sick systemic structures rather than the blame and motivations foisted on them in the histories.

[@deboraron2794]

I’m halfway through the video and I completely agree. I love her character and it’s fine from a story telling point of view that she’s advocating for her family. I also truly appreciated how we finally got a rebellious female character that enjoys sex, most of the times they’re rebellious except for the sec department. She is actively seeking pleasure and love, and I found that realistic and true to her nature. So many times these rebellious girls are portrayed as “rebellious in everything except sex in that area we abide to the rules” I also adore Alicent’s character and love how they contrast each other. I enjoy both their stories and can’t wait to see more!

[@iamjimb]

Look up Saera Targaryen, you might like her story, shes an interesting character. I think she would be Rhaenyra's great aunt.

[@Sam-xr8ne]

I like them both too.

[@jeremyadrian233]

"The rules" are very different when we write in reliable contraception.

[@LeeBeeDeeTree51]

My problem with Rhaenyra is that she advocates for her blood but everybody else can go to hell. Yet when it comes to war, she expects others to die for HER cause. And good lord do they.

[@killeryhiltons8499]

Alicent is a hypocrite aka total Karen lol. Both are not redeemable .

[@vortex_1336]

I don't think people realize how awful a queen Rhaenyra would be. She makes awful choices constantly. Marrying Daemon instead of securing an alliance with a powerful house to secure her position. Leaving court and allowing Alicent to secure her own power base. Not securing more powerful alliances through marriage with her children. And, probably the worst decision, never cultivating any sort of relationship with her siblings. If Aegon had any sort of love for his sister growing up he never would have accepted the crown. Everyone rags on Viscerys for being a bad king but he wasn't. He was a great king. He was tough when necessary and found compromises when possible. He was a terrible FATHER, of course. He was awful at running his own household. But he was actually a great king.

[@themysticwarriorgal9465]

How was he a great king I'm curious

[@vortex_1336]

@@themysticwarriorgal9465 He kept the entire realm at peace for his entire reign. He had no rebellions. No outside wars except for the skirmishes in the stepstones. No famines. He was a pretty much perfect king. The problem came from him screwing up the realm's succession.

[@durrangodsgrief6503]

@@vortex_1336 so him doing the least in the best era possible makes him great he maintained the status quo and you act as if hes amazing fir it when be broke that status quo what ever good king point he earned were immediately lost by being the king that basically caused the dance

[@vortex_1336]

@@durrangodsgrief6503 He kept the realm at peace and prosperous. That's what a good king is supposed to do. As for the Dance, he directly named his heir. Not his fault that they decided to crown someone that didn't even want to be king.

[@durrangodsgrief6503]

@@vortex_1336 a good king I'd meant to rule the realm and keep it prosperous for future generations not rule it hood in his time and leave it fucked for everyone else and it is his fault he did the bare minimum to make rhaenyra queen

[@Akiraspin]

The showrunners seem to fail to realize how robbing Rhaenyra of her more atrocious decision-making is actually just robbing a woman in power of her agency. Which is textbook sexism. Making bad decisions is literally part of *every character in this story.* They even try to do this with Cersei in mainline Game of Thrones by having Joffrey be the one to order the killing babies whereas in the books it is absolutely *just* Cersei, because no shit, Joffrey doesn't even know he is a bastard, he has absolutely no motive to kill Roberts bastards. It's disgusting. *Women can be perpetrators too fellas, no, women are not angelic beings incapable of wrongdoing. They are people, which means they can behave erratically, violently, and oppressively.*

[@johanwestin3030]

I like how everyone likes to ignore that the only reason she has a claim is that male primogeniture is the norm.

[@ttowen]

Honestly, I think it comes down to people just wanting to root for a character and just willfully misinterpreting their actions as something just or ignoring the context of the entire succession/other characters’ perspectives. Like, Vaemon Valaryon was literally speaking the truth, even if he was an ass while doing it- but it’s easy to justify his execution if you’re already on Team Black. The thing is, none of these characters are “good” or necessarily “bad” the closest to a paragon we got this season was Lyonel Strong. The Dance will hurt the realm, but both Team Green and Black fair far better than the smallfolk, and that’s the real tragedy here. Black, Green, Oldtown, Dragonstone, the commoners suffer worse than anyone

[@LeeBeeDeeTree51]

Yes. As the nobility and royals play The Game of Thrones, the small folk suffer most. They are forced to take sides despite the fact that a victory for neither side will ultimately benefit them. It's all about the power of the elites.

[@Codeman22]

What about the dragons?

[@ttowen]

@@Codeman22 what about the dragons? Like, I love each and every one of them, but overall they serve as a metaphor for nukes. On one hand they are individuals that cannot be judged on the level of the human characters (even though Vhagar. Ant be blamed for what Aemond will do even if she has the highest body count of all dragons in the series) and on the other hand they can literally only ever destroy. Even Rhaenys just escaping captivity leads to hundreds dead. There is no safe way to ride a dragon, and as Visceris I said, it is an illusion that we control the dragons

[@Saktoth]

I think house of the dragon is about the ways women fail catastrophically to have solidarity with each other. Rhaenyra breaks the rules, but only for herself, and Alicent resents that she is forced to follow the rules, and projects that on Rhaenyra. While they're both basically in the same situation, they fail to show any solidarity and work together for any common liberation.

[@9xprincess]

Rhaenrya is in a much more powerful position then Alicent. Alicent was a teen bride married to a much older man as the behest of her father. She has been for the most part a mere consort. Rhaenrya is the heir to the Iron Throne and has plenty of real power at her finger tips. He father is too passive to really control her and even when she was forced to married Laenor she got a powerful political rival removed in exchange. In her marriage to Laenor she is the powerful one and set the terms of the relationship.

[@gamma00crucis]

i don't want to put the blame on rhaenyra but alicent is not in a position to "have solidarity" with her. she tries, in fact, in the early eps. she tries to relate to rhaenyra, talk about how their lives will be after marriage, after a political marriage to secure their family's positions, because that is what alicent knows is coming down the pipe for her. she has no choice. rhaenyra, however, does have a choice, and is confused by alicent's impression of the future. here alicent suddenly realizes that rhaenyra has VASTLY more freedom than she does (thanks to her doting king father who lets her get away with everything without consequence) while rhaenyra remains totally oblivious to her own privilege. so although they're in a similar situation, alicent couldnt act in solidary of rhaenyra because it would be above her station. she would be reprimanded for it and bring shame to her family, where rhaenyra would walk away without consequence.

[@LeeBeeDeeTree51]

Emma and Olivia said the same thing.

[@mappingshaman5280]

Rhaenyra will change nothing, and we know this because we see westeros two hundred years later.

[@JL_Lux]

Well it’s a prequel so duh

[@ClaudiaBoleyn]

Nail on head with this video. I get frustrated with people who try to make Rhaenyra into a feminist icon, but also those who want to villainise her worse than the men around her. She's not necessarily a good person, but she's complex and she loves her family fiercely, which makes me empathise with her. It's the same reason I enjoy Alicent. They're not feminists, and you're right that they never even really had a chance to be. It's not a war of good and evil, but between two groups jostling for power, with these women as their figureheads. I find that more fascinating, personally, that the world they live in routinely oppresses and disrespects them, but then holds them up to justify their actions.

[@somedude3820]

One telling point is that Rhaenyra does not care at ALL about extending rights to other women in Fire And Blood. At one point other female claimants to various territories approach Rhaenyra for help inheriting, and Rhaenyra goes "LMAO no, I get to inherit because I'm special, fuck other women inheriting equally." Rhaenyra's whole MO is: "Rules for thee, but not for me." She gets to go around the issue because she's "special", not because she actually believes that there's anything wrong with the system.

[@ashleyelisabeth4]

Alicent and Viserys were right in their assessment of Rhaenyra and those flaws are shining through this season. She acts self-serious and arrogant in her actions by believing the throne is her birthright and not even bothering to prove her worth. Instead she sulks about not being heard by her council and family members but when she is, she repeats the same question over and over: "what would you have me do?" and thinks her being a woman has something to do with them not listening. Then, with having others fall at her own feet in pursuit of believing she is entitled to it is further proven when Rhaenyra entrusts the dragon seeds to fight her war because she didn't even consider the affect it would have on her son's succession or the common folk who died and will continue to do so from her war. She only cared about having the upper hand and winning the throne

[@yamatonadeshiko567]

All female characters are victims of the patriarchal society in Westeros, but Rhaenyra is actually the one who benefited the most from it. Imagine other ladies doing the shit Rhaenyra does and they won't get away with it. Rhaenyra gets away with it because her father is the king. Her father became king because of the same patriarchy that didn't choose Rhaenys due to her being a woman. Had Rhaenys became queen, Rhaenyra would not have the privileges she currently gets.

[@detrik01]

In episode 3 during the hunt Cole spelled it out to Rhaenyra, in painfully explicit detail, that most people would trade anything to the enjoy the privileges she takes for granted. Rather than be introspective or further explain her frustration, she remarks "They haven't lived my life" (or something to that affect). Delusional is the wrong word, but she was never truly willing to confront the reality of her situation.

[@facundogonza5740]

I think the best way to "fix" the mistake, the one presenting Rhaenyra as a feminist icon. Is having someone call out Rhaenyra. And actually in the books it HAPPENS...by HERSELF. When Rhaenyra makes it clear that the rules do not apply only to her. She can do whatever she wants So if showrunners are smart. They are preparing that moment to show Rhaenyra's true colours without any sort of "special glasses" and from that moment on, starts her absolute fall. What you say is COMPLETELY true, Rhaenyra is not fit to be Queen (Reasons may vary) but she is simply a spoilt brat with to much power.

[@idawg7332]

They did have Alicent call her out, unfortunately most of the audience has an irrational hatred of Alicent. Spoilers I really hope they show Rhaenyra cut herself on the throne

[@tvtda1]

Can i at least vindicate her behavior based on the fact that any male with the same power would feel exactly the same? its feminist of her to simply be powerful.

[@facundogonza5740]

@@tvtda1 And men are duitfully called out. Rhaenyra is not just hoarding power, which is nothing serious. She is pulling a Cersei (Or Cersei was pulling a Rhaenyra). She is trying to pass Bastards as legitimate children. She is interferring with Baela's and Rhaena's rights, because she wants to.

[@femalegays]

alicent did and people focused on alicent attacking her... nvm that rhaenyra wanted a 10 y/o tortured. anyone who calls rhaenyra out will be ignored.

[@tvtda1]

@@facundogonza5740 Didnt she propose them to be married to benefit baela and rhaenas rights? Baela and Rhaena love that idea clearly lol it also fairly continues the Velaryon line.

[@B463L]

So true -- this isn't a philosophically-motivated political movement for her, she literally just wants to be queen. Her breakup with Criston was one of the best scenes in the show for me; up until that point, she'd done nothing but complain about how terrible it is to be placed under the expectations of a princess. He offers her an out: give up on the whole thing, you never needed to be a princess... and she doesn't take it. She doesn't actually want freedom, she wants to have her cake and eat it too. She has Joffrey Baratheon levels of entitlement. She just can't keep it in her pants, can she? Much like Aemond mirrors Daemon, I think Aegon's sexual degeneracy is meant to mirror Rhaenyra's own vices. People will inevitably counter with the fact that r@pe is worse than infidelity -- sure, it is, but this is a world where infidelity matters because succession is based on heredity. Rhaenyra's selfishness got Vaemond Velaryon killed, and he will not be her last victim.

[@sseraphim2818]

What was the out? To live poor and be an outcast? Was that truly viable? Why should she have relinquished her life to be the poor, starving wife of an incel?

[@B463L]

@@sseraphim2818 you do realize that that more or less describes the life of nearly everyone in Westeros, right? She spends the whole first half of the season complaining about how horrible it is to be a literal princess because she has -- gasp! -- responsibilities.

[@sseraphim2818]

@@B463L As you said she's a princess, she's not everyone. She's never lived the life of an everyone and she wouldn't have jumped at the opportunity just then because Crispy Creme asked her to. Yes, she complains about her obligations because they are tasking. However, she wouldn't leave the life of luxury and her family aside. That's asinine to think she would. Crispy offered her nothing valuable.

[@B463L]

@@sseraphim2818 I wouldn't have left either... but I would've spent less time complaining about it.

[@LeeBeeDeeTree51]

@@B463L Yes. She wants all the privileges but none of the responsibilities.

[@harrisonclauss8559]

I think alot of people are still upset that danerys wasnt the yass queen hero they thought she was, and they're reinvesting that hope into rhaenyra.

[@ExtraVictory]

That's gonna be a bad time when King Aegon kills her with his dragon lmfao.

[@Voidwurm1701]

@@ExtraVictory Or when she colludes with Daemon to murder kids, and, if we stay true to one possible interpretation, sells Alicent and Helaena into forced prostitution.

[@stephanieb5120]

My opinion is mainly that Alicent and Rhaenyra both break my heart because they’ve both been victimized by patriarchy in different ways and you can see in the latest episode that they still yearn for each other a bit. But patriarchy (and oppressive systems in general) are very good at making you see one person as the problem you need to solve rather than the whole system needing to be dismantled. Hence Alicent’s justified anger at her lot in life isn’t at the system that made marriage and children the only options for her. It’s too amorphous to get angry at. But Rhaenyra is right there, clearly not hanging to follow some of the rules Alicent is forced to follow. And so that’s where her anger goes. It makes me really sad.

[@AlexClementine]

Exactly. They're both victims and react differently to the cards they were dealt. Even if Rhaenyra acted selfishly by having bastards, how can you blame her? She was looking for happiness in an impossible situation. Most would've done the same thing. It's not Alicent vs Rhaenyra

[@stoneheart8231]

In what ways has Rhaenyra actually been victimized by the patriarchy so far though? She’s had more freedom, autonomy and privilege than almost any other person (male or female) in Westeros. Jason Lannister making one sexist joke at you is hardly comparable to being pimped out as a child bride by your father, maritally raped and treated like a baby-making machine for over a decade.

[@hh-ug4ki]

yeah, i do think alicent "should" blame otto (and the patriachy etc) obviously, but that's just not how abusive relationships work and it's not that simple. do i think rhaenyra is to blame? no. do i understand why alicent resents rhaenyra? yes. they're both victims of patriachy but in alicent's pov, rhaenyra is privileged yet takes it for granted, kinda even shows off sometimes or being careless, something alicent could have never allowed herself to be. she was pimped by her father at 15 and was forced to sleep with someone thrice her age and be used as a baby machine for THE SOLE REASON OF GIVING THE KING MALE HEIRS (she still continued to advocate for rhaenyra for years though even when rhaenyra stopped talking to her. up until her father's manipulation and kind of valid reasonings got to her in episode 5). viserys was clearly a neglecting father and alicent who was forced into motherhood FOR HIM had to take care of them herself ever since she was a teen... she spent 2 decades doing everything she was asked to, all while being so isolated and alone. took care of viserys all this time and had that paranoia her father got into her head that rhaenyra would have to kill her kids if she wants to rule (which is not necessarily a lie. otto made valid points. though i don't think rhaenyra would have killed them, i could see daemon for example doing it for her to eliminate "threats" to the throne). and still, viseris doesn't even acknowledge the kids she was forced to conceive FOR HIM. he feels guilty for gutting rhaenyra's mom so he biases her and her kids- rhaenyra can be careless, rhaenyra can gaslight the entire realm that her kids aren't bastards when they CLEARLY TO ALL are, rhaenyra's son can cut out alicent's son's eye and viseris cares more about TRUE rumors than the permanent damage done to alicent's kid (rhaenyra even suggests to aemond should be "sharply questioned" - as in, tortured. a phrase used in westeros). in alicent's eyes rhaenyra is like those rich privileged people who take everything they have for granted and can do no wrong because of their privilege- they can bribe the police or judges, they can get away with anything while she was there working her ass off trying to survive day by day. with viserys not caring about aemond losing his eye and immediately takes rhaenyra's side, i think it just confirmed to her and her kids that all her paranoidic thoughts were true- if someone from team black does try to harm her kids in order to secure rhaenyra's claim in front of the people of the realm (who wouldn't necessarily support a woman when there is a male heir alive), viserys wouldn't do anything- he wouldn't do much to protect them, he wouldn't even care that much if something did happen to them- because it was what's best for rhaenyra, and he always takes her side, even though alicent was the one taking care of him daily for decades and rhaenyra and daemon only came back in episode 8 when they needed something from him. even though alicent gave him sons like she was forced to. she lost her childhood for this and it was all for nothing while rhaenyra still doesn't appreciates the privilege she has. i think so many viewers minimize and simplify alicent and her actual reasons for the way she acts. i keep seeing the shallow "she's just a jealous bitch and hates women"

[@femalegays]

100% agree, they're the only characters i root for equally too.

[@stephanieb5120]

@@Captain_Insano_nomercy yes! That definitely complicated things even further

[@exoticbutters2781]

I always found it weird that Gatehouse Nyra refused to be betrothed but every time she was backed into a corner, she didn't hesitate to try to betrothe off all of her kids to try to get herself out of a problem that she created. That is no way to rule. People also forget that she completely disrespects many of the nobles when she invited them to propose to her and also instigated the murder of the Bracken kid. I'm sure several lords at that ball were offended by her behavior and will choose team green during the Dance because of that. Viserys set the realm up for failure by ignoring precedence in the succession, but Rhaenyra also blundered heavily too. But she does have many lords and the internet backing her so let's watch everything transpire. Team green, let's stick together and support our queen Alicent 😀

[@nunyabiznes33]

TBF he only set Rhaenyra as heir coz he had no one else. After Aegon II was born, he should have made up his mind whether he still want Rhaenyra as heir or not anymore after getting a son.

[@exoticbutters2781]

@@nunyabiznes33 it would've been the responsible thing to do. Honestly, I think he was starting to lose his wits and still grieving over his lost of Aemma by the time Aegon II was born and just felt guilt so he didn't recall his decision. But it is very irresponsible as king. And I think it is important that we separate man from position; Viserys was a good man but an awful King.

[@notyetawomen5257]

💚💚💚

[@nicholascole9673]

This is a conflict of westerosi tradition vs Targaryen exceptionalism. Which is why I actually prefer the greens, tradition and culture isn't always the best argument but it is at least a legitimate one opposed to the blacks who are basically just arguing that they should get their way because platinum blondes don't have to follow the rules.

[@PerfectDark0]

I mean it’s called the Targaryen Dynasty for a reason. And traditions are not rigid and unchanging, crazy how I keep having to repeat this. Was it tradition, precedent, cultural for Westeros to be ruled by one king before Aegon The Conqueror? No?

[@nicholascole9673]

@@PerfectDark0 it's called a dynasty because it is a dynasty, that doesn't really have anything to do with anything else, maybe you don't know what that word means. A single king was unprecedented sure but that doesn't have anything to do with succession law.

[@PerfectDark0]

@@nicholascole9673 No, their rule, their power, that’s what caused them to rule for so long, to have a dynasty. That’s what caused them to skirt Westerosi customs. I bring up Aegon The Conqueror because that was a HUGE precedent changed. With strife and death, but it was changed. So I get annoyed whenever y’all bring that shit up like it can’t be changed when we have seen other huge precedents be changed.

[@pg1448]

@@PerfectDark0 And how did Aegon the Conqueror accomplish that? By mass killings and violent subjugation of formerly independent kingdoms. How progressive. That's why people have an issue with casually breaking laws and disrespecting tradition, traditions and precedents tend to change and be broken but this process is rarely a peaceful one because people will inevitably resist against it.

[@nicholascole9673]

@@PerfectDark0 I don't recall saying they can't be changed but since you brought up Aegon, he and the early Targaryens butted heads with Westerosi traditions and customs and even with their overwhelming power they were still forced to compromise. The situation also isn't that comparable, Aegon had that overwhelming advantage, the dragons in this case both sides have it.

[@via-anghelmagahum2586]

Thank you! I’ve been saying all of this. The overwhelming support from HOTD fans for Rhaenyra doesn’t just stem from the obviously bias way they portray her versus the Green faction but the fact fans look at her like Daenerys 2.0 and almost like a radical feminist revolutionary who will change Westeros for the better and will create equality for women and men in Westeros and allow women to have more rights which is 100% untrue.

[@silentsteps642]

Great video! She never had any intention of changing the Westerosi society in the books and even in the show. Viewers are projecting their expectations onto her.

[@JL_Lux]

I don’t get why that would be placed on her.

[@jamoniarnold4136]

Viserys and Rhaenyra were the first worst things to happen to House Targaryen.

[@AttemptedJustice]

Rhaenyra is the ultimate depiction of a child who loses a parent and then just acts out for the rest of their life

[@JL_Lux]

Acts out? Lmaoooo by having good sex?

[@Sam-xr8ne]

wut?

[@saraeissa4954]

I think most women would disagree with this take. Her character's a little complex so I understand why some people might not understand her fully

[@tomkleist1815]

It actually mirrors real life profoundly. People pursue their own selfish desires while portraying themselves as part of a broader, justified struggle on behalf of an oppressed social group...

[@tripledigit4835]

Patrisse Khan-Cullors and Jussie Smollett are perfect examples of this

[@nunyabiznes33]

@@tripledigit4835 Juicy Smally ran out of crime that he ended up fabricating one. 🤣

[@Mic-Mak]

Excellent commentary. It's true that some fans see Rhaenyra through girl boss tinted glasses. But I think most of them are aware that they are projecting. They just understand that she is worth rooting for more than Alicent, and therefore that makes it ok to stan her. They are aware of some of her flaws, but not most. I would have a bigger problem if the show rather than the fans was trying hard to girl boss Rhaenyra without showing her flaws.

[@dnycebushton5008]

exactly the character is just a more likable relateable person than Alicents uppity judgmental prudish arse.

[@LeeBeeDeeTree51]

But for the most part they HAVE been soft pedaling her flaws by implying that she exhibits girl boss behavior that isn't there.

[@Mic-Mak]

@@LeeBeeDeeTree51 What do you mean by "girl boss behavior that isn't there"? I think there were a few when she was genuinely badass. Like on the Dragonstone bridge in E02.

[@LeeBeeDeeTree51]

​@@Mic-Mak When Jake asked if he was a bastard, instead of telling him that despite what society at large thinks, there is nothing wrong with him being a bastard - which would be the girl boss thing to do - she instead tells him that the most important thing is that he is a Targaryen. That doesn't take away the slur or supposed shame of bastardy, it instead reinforces it and gives him a false sense of entitlement as if being a Targaryen should wash away social stigma that should not exist in the first place. She never challenged the social stigma of bastardy. She just claimed it didn't apply to her. That's cowardly. It reminds me of say the very bad old days in the last century when African American children with very dark skin were teased by their lighter skinned playmates for being too black. To often some well-meaning grandmother would make the sad mistake of telling the kid not to cry because they weren't THAT dark and that she knew people who were darker. It was tragic because it allowed the lie to stand that having dark skin should be a problem. It misses the most important point. Rhaenyra's answer to Jake did the same. Rheanyra was painted as a badass for finishing off a feral hog, giving birth and immediately walking with her newborn to the queen and yes, telling her always-crushing-on-her uncle off on a bridge. But when it comes to showing real leadership, when it really counts, she falls short.

[@Mic-Mak]

@@LeeBeeDeeTree51 All the moments you describe in your last paragraph are IMO, genuinely badass, in that they show true strength. That Rhaenyra is not as strong as you esteem she should be, that's another thing, and a fair criticism. In regard to the bastardy of her children, I think it could be argued that Rhaenyra did communicate to Jace, that there is nothing wrong with being a bastard, but she just didn't say it explicitly. I understand your qualm for having it hinge on the fact that he is of Targaryen blood, but that is literally what any high-born lord or lady who had a bastard could say to their child. That at least they are high-born. This is exactly what Jon Snow is told at the NW when he acts superior to his fellow watchmen, not realizing that despite being a bastard, he is privileged compared to them. In the history of Westeros, there are plenty of high-born ladies who have openly mothered bastards. They can advocate for them, but there's only so much they can do with that label stuck on them. Expecting Rhaenyra to challenge the social stigma of bastardy is a lot to ask and unfair, IMO, when her position as a female heir is already questioned. I don't think it's cowardly for Rhaenyra to not challenge the social stigma of bastardy, I think it's her understanding the limits of hew own agency over Westerosi society. Maybe she could do that as Queen, though I doubt it, but as heir, a female heir at that, her position is weaker. We just saw in E09 that Aegon has bastards too. I doubt he'll advocate for their cause too, and he is far more socially accepted as a man.

[@roseofthegarden_]

Have I mentioned how much I love your channel? Because I love your channel. ❤️ You always put into words how I'm thinking but can't express properly. I'm always nodding along and internally clapping at your analysis. Your channel is a breath of fresh air from all the loud and wrong nonsense that's plagued this fandom. Thanks for sharing all your thoughts. ❤️

[@Nameless0061]

I love the irony that the biased producers and writers tried to water her down and ended up making her a hypocrite of the highest level. Book version Rhaenyra could be a sociopath but at least she didn't hide that aspect.

[@ryankwon8785]

Rhaenyra is a cautionary tale, not someone to look up to. She is an example that women can be as cruel as men. The best female figure to look up to is Queen Alysanne Targaryen.

[@spiritofarkham1235]

A lot of Rhaenyra's entitlement comes from Viserys feeling gulty for Aemma's death. So he makes her his heir and just like he does with Daemon he either ingores or forgives any of her terrible decissions. Like have bastards with Harwin when if she had an affiar with Daemon the kids would have silver hair and she could just say that they take after her. It works for Cersei before Robert died. But since Viserys will support her no matter what she has no fear of the conseqences of her actions.

[@aikoangelica1305]

Honestly, lets just be real, Rhaenys in her worst days will be a better queen than Rhaenyra in her good days.

[@LeeBeeDeeTree51]

Amen. And one of the great ironies of the show is that nobody seems to notice. They are too invested in the Alicent/ Rhaenyra catfight.

[@aikoangelica1305]

@@LeeBeeDeeTree51 Despite of her shenanigans in Aegon's coronation, I still believe that Rhaenys is the right choice the Grand Council fumbled the bag at that one.

[@HillsAliveYT]

LMFAO yes this comment didn't age quite as well as it could have given Rhaenys' completely nonsensical dragon terrorism moment at the end of the episode, but I still think she would have been a very solid and pragmatic ruler, she's pretty good at making choices that are more beneficial in the long-term even if it's something she does (or at least should) have a massive personal problem with.

[@lakaperse6995]

@@HillsAliveYT i think it is more the lack of good writing like criston cole Killing someone in the middle of the weeding.

[@themysticwarriorgal9465]

We have never seen rhaenyra in action tho? U can't make that judgement without seeing her rule.

[@drnkndmn]

I don't get where the "leftist" came from cos young Rhaenyra said that "their [common folk] wish are of no consequence" or something like this. My issue is the loss of agency as soon as Daemon enters the scene. One episode she orders Laenor around, beefs with Alicent, has an affair etc. but then we suddenly find out she was completely powerless and waited for the, well,...prince. I don't want her to be a girlboss, it's just looks like a weird change of character

[@vortex_1336]

That was the entire point though. They were waiting for him to say something insulting so Daemon could kill him. Once his wife's honor was questioned he was within his rights to kill the guy. Also, she could then claim innocence in the matter since she didn't ASK Daemon to kill him. It was the perfect political move.

[@jjh2456]

People don’t understand there wouldn’t be this issue if Rhaenyra didn’t think people are stupid. She’s the one gaslighting everybody simply because her father lets her. Rhaenyra is more like Cersei than Alicent is.

[@akechijubeimitsuhide]

Exactly. Cersei also didn't care about other women, she only wants power for herself.

[@protoeuropean9012]

The weakness and indecisiveness of Viserys was the root cause of all this.

[@diegonatan6301]

I think that the show really goes out of its way to make Rhaenyra the hero, even to the degree of making her one of the less active characters in her own story, she could be the "hero" here, but she certainly is not the protagonist as she is basically driven by other characters choices and she is moved by the plot instead of moving the plot, she is just a passenger in a story that is driven by Daemon, Alicent, Aemond and so on...

[@saraeissa4954]

I think the problem with Video Essays like this generalizing a majority female fanbase of a female character is the assumption that we dont know that she's a flawed character. Every time a popular male character is well liked with his flaws: Jaime, its not a controversial topic. But Rhaenyra Stans get a plethora of videos talking about unfeminist and trash she is when..... we know she's flawed. We like her anyway... is that so hard to believe when both the books and show make it very clear she's a complex character with decades of vital characterization points in her life: Daemon, Inheritance, Criston, Aemma, Viserys, Laena, her kids, her marriage, her affairs, her politics, etc. Why would she perfect in every facet of her life SHE IS A HUMAN BEING, we like her because its easy to root for someone who is given things, has it taken away from her, and watching her climb to get it back/revenge.

[@TheMikster95]

This is the best Rhaenyra breakdown I’ve seen yet. You really got into her flaws. Subbed

[@ayanna6327]

The only person who could be considered radical in the show is Mysaria. She was abused by the political system at a young age, and is actively vouching for people who were in her same position. If the show gave us more of Mysaria's point of view, we wouldn't root for either the Blacks or the Greens at all. EDIT: Just learned about what Mysaria does in the books and I take it all back lol

[@snigdhaghosh5865]

Although Kings have bastards, no king ever attempts to put them forward for the throne coz they understand the fragility of the hereditary claims of royals. Rhaenyra is the weakest female character we are being forced to like and root for. Compare here to Cersei or even lady Stark. They are queen metal an don one would question their claim as a queen. the weakness in Rhaenyra's character is the reason why House of the dragon will lose its stem sooner than we will know.

[@idawg7332]

I think Rhaenyra has been well written so far but the fan perception of her is really annoying. The show has whitewashed her a bit but her fans still ignore all the bad stuff she's done. So far the only major character I don't care for the writing on is aegon II because they've made him even worse than his book version so you can root for rhaenyra. Its weird because they did a great job at making Alicent, Aemond and even Otto more nuanced. SPOILERS I feel like if they stick to the proper ending this is going to have the same backlash that daenerys going crazy had when all these people realize their girlboss hero is a horrible ruler

[@mercuriology45]

aegon wasn’t made “worse” the books describe him as a man who touched servant girls and is very creepy in general. in one account he even engages in sexual activities with a 12 year old…

[@nunyabiznes33]

I hope they follow the rumor that she had Halaena killed. That's what everyone in King's Landing believed anyway.

[@idawg7332]

@@nunyabiznes33 SPOILERS And wasn't there something about her forcing Helaena and Alicent into brothels? I hope they do that and show her getting cut on the throne. Unfortunately I think the writers want everyone rooting for rhaenyra but I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt, so far I like the show

[@durrangodsgrief6503]

@@idawg7332 oh they do they know aegon is FAR less of a shitty person than rhaenyra so they bombard you with how much of a terrible person he is to make you like her more

[@ayiza8511]

I’ve always agreed that Luke ever being the heir or lord of Driftmark is ridiculous he has no Velaryon blood expect distance relatives on the Targaryen side. The iron throne is a whole a another matter. If Harwin and Rhea had married then Jace would still have been the heir and a acceptable one (maybe not to the hightowers and their allies)

[@rayn0577]

“It is extremely difficult to change the world without the world’s consent.” Another excellent line, ma’am.

[@LisaMariavanHarmelen]

I love this! Maybe you can also make a video about how everyone is on the black’s side and defending everything they do… Love your video’s ❤

[@Mic-Mak]

Everyone is definitely not the black side. That majority, yes, that seems like it. But I have definitely seen people on the green side, or at the very least, on Alicent's side. And fans seems to love Aemond more than Jace & Luke.

[@LisaMariavanHarmelen]

@@Mic-Mak They hate Aemon and don’t justify his actions and like that about him (from what I understand). While if Daemon does something everyone is cheering him on. I’m sure there are people who are pro greens, but not many. I wish people would see both sides, that’s what makes it interesting.

[@Mic-Mak]

@@LisaMariavanHarmelen Sorry, I said Aemon, I meant to say Aemond. I keep forgetting. Anyway, I think you're right about Daemon, but I suspect that in future episodes they'll start to have mixed feelings. The show definitely wants the audience to lean black, and admittedly, I do too. Basically, even though there are bad parts on both sides, one seems worse than the other. At least for now. I see a lot of people praising Viserys for defending his daughter in the last episode, and calling Alicent a bad mother for raising a rap*st, as if Viserys didn't have some responsibility in that too. Also, a lot of people don't see Viserys as a rap*st when it is clear Alicent never enjoyed it.

[@LisaMariavanHarmelen]

@@Mic-Mak I totally agree with you and I hope you are right.

[@KittyOfChess]

The whole Black vs. Green thing feels very similar to EAH's Royal vs. Rebel from when I was a kid. The fandom treats it like no one is should be on the Royals/Greens side, because the Rebels/Blacks are always completely in the right, which is just false. They always defend everything the Rebels/Blacks do, and immediately detest everything the Royals/Greens do. You'd be hard pressed to find someone who is overtly Team Royal or Team Green.

[@michaelbuick6995]

I think the audience considers her to be a feminist icon (even though in universe she does nothing of the sort as you correctly explain) is because, at the end of the day, Rhaenyra does whatever the hell she likes. Rules be damned. Tradition or cultural taboos be damned. Right and wrong be damned. The "yas lighting" around Rhaenyra is indicative of a real problem in our society because it's considered "empowerment" when Rhaenyra exercises her own agency, even if what she is doing is really morally questionable if not outright evil. Such as allowing or ordering people executed for publicly stating something about her that she knows to be true. This is the definition of a psychopath. To an extent it's impossible not to map our modern moral values on to fiction. Even though we know it's fictional, even though we know, in the case of Westeros for example, this is a society with different moral sensibilities, we just can't help but judge characters by OUR standards at least a bit. If we as an audience judge a character like Rhaenyra to be an empowered feminist icon, what does that say about us?

[@jamesbush74]

I appreciate this a lot because I was disturbed when Vaemond was mutilated extra judiciously for telling the truth, he was being a dick, but all the same his life was lost in order to protect Rhaeryas claim by in turn defending her sons false claim, and luke even said he didn't want that kind of stuff to happen!

[@sseraphim2818]

He lost his tongue because in what world could he call the heir to the throne "a whore"and live? He deserved it.

[@javierlopez9789]

Yeah he might have been a Dick but everything he said was 100% true

[@HowToPnP]

Rhaenyra is a "feminist" in the same sense that pro-status-quo Liberals are "feminists": The system may not be changed or questioned! We keep the same patriarchal system, but we put a woman on the top, so everything is okay. Rhaenyra explicitly decided against other female nobles inheriting titles and lands in the books. She is not here to change the system, she is here for her own benefit.

[@javierlopez9789]

Like most People are, especially feminists.

[@Derekivery]

Rhaenyra is interesting in how she is so very flawed, but she is in no way some kick ass girl power female icon (or at least she shouldn't be). The only reason she should be Queen is, the simple fact that her daddy said she should be in charge, there is no objectively good reason she should be Queen over Aegon. Sure Aegon is a piece of crap, but he's a Targaryen they're all different kinds of pieces of crap. But from the point of view of the common people and everyday Lords of Westeros, how is Rhaenyra a better deal for them over Aegon? As this video's author mentions Rhaenyra simply sitting on the throne completely throws their social structure into chaos. Which to be 100% clear, since their social structure is massively screwed up it could be worth it... but it's not like Rhaenyra is paying attention to this and she is trying to sit on the Iron Throne to take down the evil patriarchy, she's just doing because her Daddy promised her. There is no indication that she cares about anyone but herself (and her children). Rhaenyra is dragon flying fantasy princess KAREN! Her daddy promised her a pony, so everyone needs to give her pony. Her daddy promised her a castle, so everyone needs to give her a castle. Her daddy promised her everyone would worship her as their lord and savior, so everyone needs to worship her as their lord and savior. There is hardly an episode where Rhaenyra doesn't say something were the proper response is "Check your privilege"

[@boopdedoop3764]

I feel that many of the people that stan Rhaenyra (aka hardcore fans) don't want to be caught liking a character that isn't at least a little bit morally superior if that makes sense. They will vilify other characters (Alicent being the first and then Ser Crispin or vice versa) to make Rhaenyra appear superior. Guys, your favourite character does NOT NEED TO BE GOOD!! Or even "good enough" in terms of virtues and morals! I absolutely adore Rhaenyra, even if she's not a saint, even if she royally (ha) messed up her brief rule. I don't wish to be like her, I don't think she's someone anyone should be like in real life but well, guess what! GRRM loves to make characters like this! I have hope because he's heavily involved in this. Rhaenyra's faction looks righteous at first in comparison to Alicent's/Otto's but in later seasons we might (we hopefully WILL) see that neither of them are truly better than the other and that the Blacks are just as bad if not worse than the Greens. I don't mind Rhaenyra's character or how they're handling her in the show (or Alicent or Rhaenys or Daemon or Aemond or any of the more notable characters) because a) it's still the 1st season, b) GRRM is involved!!, and c) the book the show is adapted from is a history book written by non-reliable sources. Obviously some events are true, some are more accurate than others, some are exaggerations and rumours and hearsay. The truth of what happened might be different so we shouldn't rely on the book TOO much. Again, I just want to hope this will be better than GoT's last seasons despite people's inability to understand nuance. I'm very fandom-oriented and love interacting with fellow fans, but many of the hardcore fans of some characters make the fandom experience here kinda suck sometimes. Again, you don't have to like or stan virtuous characters and not everything is supposed to be revolutionary! Great vid by the way, sorry for the essay😂😭

[@Princess_Weekes]

You know I’m excited for this one!

[@user-vj6ws1op4u]

You are so brave. I fear her fanatic stans already came for you

[@secondeye1574]

Stuff like this is why I hope the show touches on Mushroom's version of events when it comes to Rhaenerya's treatment of Alicent and her daughter (the one that Mysaria suggests to her). Of course, it would be ludicrous if she went through with it, given how much they've already watered down Rhaenerya, but I think she should bring up the trafficking idea and someone, possibly Daemon, talks her out of it. Otherwise people are projecting this extremely cringe modern feminist view of Rhaenerya, just like they are on Alicent ("she fucked her bf's daddy!!!1 she's just jealous she has to fuck some crusty old man while Rhaenerya gets to fuck hot dudes!!1". -- it's downright creepy and objectifying). Since the next episode supposedly uses Mushroom's outlandish testimony when it comes to making Aegon an evil POS I don't see why they shouldn't do the same for Rhaenerya

[@user-luciddream]

i hope they do like a descending downfall of rhaenyra where she becomes more cruel and sinister throughout the show which starts with what happens in this seasons finale, kind of like what got tried to do with dany but actually done well and not rushed. what happens to alicent and helaena at the hands of rhaenyra probably wont happen until like season 3 or 4 so theres time.

[@secondeye1574]

@@user-luciddream Same, I guess I just wish we got whispers of it in S1.

[@saraeissa4954]

I think the problem with Video Essays like this generalizing a majority female fanbase of a female character is the assumption that we dont know that she's a flawed character. Every time a popular male character is well liked with his flaws: Jaime, its not a controversial topic. But Rhaenyra Stans get a plethora of videos talking about unfeminist and trash she is when..... we know she's flawed. We like her anyway... is that so hard to believe when both the books and show make it very clear she's a complex character with decades of vital characterization points in her life: Daemon, Inheritance, Criston, Aemma, Viserys, Laena, her kids, her marriage, her affairs, her politics, etc. Why would she perfect in every facet of her life SHE IS A HUMAN BEING, we like her because its easy to root for someone who is given things, has it taken away from her, and watching her climb to get it back/revenge.

[@saraeissa4954]

@@user-luciddream I'm interested to see Evil Rhaenyra and I'll like her however she's written. I dislike Aegon 2 and i cant wait for his death scene and im anticipating the lads and sabitha frey beating the Baratheon assholes

[@nidohime6233]

One thing that could point out more obviously how Rhaenyra is only claiming her right to the throne by her own self interest rather than wanting to bring the same rights to women and men in Westeros is by sugesting a slighty different scenario: What would have happend if Aegon II only had daughters, and died before having more kids? I think she would be likely to insist her children would be the right heirs to the Seven Kingdoms rather than Alicent's children by using male priority as a precedent for choosing her rather than Aegon, so she can reign the realm as a queen regent at least. In fact I think she might have married with Daemon just to have a higher claim to the throne since he is the king's brother and even used to be heir to the throne too.

[@Emma88178]

Another aspect of Rhaenyra's storyline that I'm a little surprised you didn't bring up in this video, is that there is a part in the Fire and Blood book where one of the members of her Black Council mentions the succession rights to a couple of prominent houses in the Crownlands that have older daughters. And yet, Rhaenyra flat out says no, and those houses should continue to go to male children instead. Showing how she really doesn't care about inheritance rights to other women. Only herself is what matters. And of course I have to keep laughing at people thinking Rhaenyra is another "Daenerys". Yeah and Daenerys was clearly a white supremisist power hungry tyrant from season 1/book 1 onward who was only "against" slavery when it benefited her. And Rhae is really no different from her.

[@pepeo6534]

Ngl you basically explained why I love Rhaenyra. She’s fighting for herself and her children. It’s cool to see a female character who doesn’t bear the burden of all women’s suffering in their world. She has her own ambition.

[@LeeBeeDeeTree51]

If she stands for nobody else, she shouldn't expect support from anyone else. Yet she definitely does, in fact she claims it as her right.

[@pg1448]

But you can say the same about Alicent.

[@LeeBeeDeeTree51]

@@pg1448 Right. And I do. Both women are horrible and made worse by the fact they both think they are doing what is for the good of the realm.

[@JL_Lux]

@@pg1448 Alicent is fight for the patriarchy lmaooo

[@saraeissa4954]

@@LeeBeeDeeTree51 I like this part of Rhaenyra because being selfish is something a lot of humans can relate too so we sympathize with her. Itachi keeping Sasuke alive was selfish but i still like Itachi. The weird thing is why men feel the need to write video essays on the assumption that all woman like Rhaenyra because shes feminist. Thats generalizes all Rhaenyra fans into a simple minded group. Its unfair and ignores the real appeal and likability of Rhaenyra.