WHICH ONE MAKES MORE 5.0L HP, E7 HEADS & CAM 347 STROKER OR HCI 302? WHAT ABOUT WHEN WE ADD BOOST?

[@UserName-ln5ol]

Can't run a boosted 302 at 600hp for long.

[@ROADBURN66]

Richard thank you , Just what I was looking for I have a stock 91’ 5.0 H.O. Short block . Will be adding the 11R-170 heads & the TFS stage 2 cam and now I know NO piston to valve interference . Of course, I will check it anyways. I will give the summit 600 CFM annular boosters carb a try on an old Offenhauser 360 split single plane intake. If I don’t like the outcome of the intake, I will go with Edelbrock air gap dropping it into my 66 mustang. Heidts pro G suspension front and rear.

[@vikday]

what pushrod, lifters and rockers did you use?

[@slambergang]

Are your pistons oem spec when it comes to valve reliefand compression hight. And are the wedged or flat-top? And what length pushrods did you go for?

[@jasons6573]

If you keep doing these videos there will not be anything left to argue about at car shows.

[@richardholdener1727]

CHECK THE COMMENTS-THERE WILL ALWAYS BE STUFF TO ARGUE ABOUT

[@greenfox3637]

Always appreciate the engine combo info you provide for us! Thank you!

[@bcbloc02]

Love the testing!

[@24theMoney]

So a 347 with E7 heads/HO cam makes more power than a Gen 2 LT-4?

[@richardholdener1727]

you are confusing rated vs tested power

[@blownfox]

Great video as always why does the carburetor set up make more power than a expensive EFI?

[@joshiek7839]

Charge cooling.

[@timweb1510]

Thank you for sbf

[@slambergang]

For the Carcraft 302, were those oem spec pistons used with the 11r heads?

[@richardholdener1727]

which car Craft 302?

[@slambergang]

​@@richardholdener1727 the 2nd build mentioned in the video at 4:10 with the TFS 11r heads. The pistons in the picture, were those kept in the motor?

[@Jim_Lawrence]

What is the full dress weight difference between 302 and 351? SBE 351 hci vs. 347 hci in cost? Power should be basically identical... Save for intake differences right? Not to mention most would argue the 9.5 deck is stronger if pushing block strength, and capacity of what? 408? 418? 427?

[@dennisrobinson8008]

351 basically has longer runner lengths due to the 9.5 vs 8.2 deck. Itll make more torque and a shorter Power band.

[@ahoneyman]

Swapping in a 351 in a Fox Body needs a new custom oil pan, relocating brackets for accessories, headers, intake, and an oil pump. It's not a drop in deal.

[@dennisrobinson8008]

@@ahoneyman With the right stuff it is. But its surely a little heavier. Heavier block, heavier intake. Maybe 80lb?

[@dennisrobinson8008]

Oil pan,intake and headers would be replaced on any well built 302 anyways, so the only extra is the 351W mounts.

[@Jim_Lawrence]

Yes, an engine with more displacement and the same HCI will make more torque and good chance the same HP at a lower RPM. All that depends on what the limiting component is, H, C, or I. That said, a bigger cam and/or larger intake in a larger engine can make the same or more low end, and outperform the smaller engine at RPM. Displacement eats duration right? So all that said, how much are you willing to pay for upgraded power becomes the question. If that 408+ makes 60 ft lbs. extra average power over a 347 for $600 more, is that worth it? *not real numbers, just an example* @richardholdener1727 do you have a test where the under say 4500 rpm output matches between a mild smaller engine (302, 347) and a wilder larger engine (347,351,408)? Assuming larger losing low end from big duration and a single plane. Just a comparison to see how by having more inches you can match the smaller engine for driving and kill it racing. AKA street/strip (yes I would accept an ls comparison 😥)

[@joeyshmokely1]

With all of the historical 5.0 hci data that you have on file, i am really curious to see the peak numbers and power curves when a small 302 is paired with oversized hardware...tfs hi port 225 heads, .600 inch lift cam and tfs r intake for example...n/a and of course with boost. I have heard you say that the motor or combo making more power na will make more power under boost. Is there ever a scenario where an oversized hci combo that makes less power na than a more appropriately sized hci combo, can or will somehow make more power with the addition of big boost? Thank you for your continued sbf testing!

[@richardholdener1727]

I wouldn't pick a TFS R intake, but the rest of the stuff will work, I haven't seen a situation like you describe, except in the case of a VTEC Honda motor. They often do better than the formula

[@timothyforce1949]

How about a 302-331-347 power/rpm comparison?

[@alltherpm]

That's what he did here, a 347 makes 80flbs torque more then 302, well a 331 will make ruffly 50pds torque more then 302

[@williamtauriello1581]

Like Bob Glidden (and I’m sure many others) said: “An engine doesn’t know what name is on the valve covers.”

[@jplperformance9073]

Love this guy

[@joshreynolds729]

But how does this compare with newer 4 valve v8s like the coyote. Can a 302 beat out a 426 or a 440 2 valve max effort stock block with boost? Age old argument here.

[@smokenchoken1736]

Have you ever done a comparison of 347 vs 351w to see if theres a measurable difference?

[@7950pacecar]

I'm pretty sure he did. The 347 made a little more hp and the 351 made a little more torque, due to the difference in intake runner length between the engines.

[@unclesquirrel6951]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/jHLMYpJohbpghbM

[@unclesquirrel6951]

That link goes to Richards 347 vs 351w video

[@dennisrobinson8008]

Holdener did it. It's exactly what Chickeroo said. The 351W made more torque due to the runner lengths, and the 347 makde just a little more HP up high due to shorter runner lengths.

[@alltherpm]

​@@dennisrobinson8008 don't forget lower end ways 20lbs more on 351, y it yielded more torque, and 347 made more hp

[@1SageP1]

For the stock bottom end with tfs heads and cam. What intake manifold and throttle body do you recommend on a fuel injected motor to get similar power?

[@richardholdener1727]

tfs

[@erikrunas226]

Boost is to engines as bacon is to cooking...it makes things better.

[@blownfox]

What was the boost level on the litte 302?

[@chipcurrey653]

This isn't universal. The ly6 based 408 with stock ly6 heads made more power than aftermarket heads on an ly6 in another test you ran.

[@richardholdener1727]

WHEN HAVE I RUN AN LY6 BASED 408?

[@chipcurrey653]

@@richardholdener1727 or was it an ls3 based 416?

[@chipcurrey653]

@@richardholdener1727 right here kzbin.info/www/bejne/aoPLoYN7o79sepI&ab_channel=RichardHoldener

[@chipcurrey653]

@@richardholdener1727 The 408 in the video which you say is using LY6 heads (because they do not have the lighter components like the LS3) has a better power curve than the stock stroke 6.0 with trick flow heads

[@gearhead7896]

@@richardholdener1727 Didn't you run a 408 when you did the LSA test?

[@BruceLee-xn3nn]

Any cam recommendations on a speed density Lincoln LSC or advance stock HO cam for more torque? It has explorer intake,P heads ,AOD and 327 gears stock converter.

[@richardholdener1727]

HARD TO BEAT THE STOCK ONE FOR LOW SPEED TORQUE

[@KingJT80]

yeah im tossing the idea around 302 HCI stock 1979 bottom end with trick flow 170 vs buying the stroker kit and doing a 347 with TW 190 11rS will be carb 6500 RPM redline.

[@deanstevenson6527]

Personally, because you asked.... 🥝✔️, on a Fox Ford, I'd Always have less low end torque and optimized gearing with HCI, than extra torque and power everywhere with a capacity increase. It's the age old condunrum, the chassis has to meld with the torque. The old adage "For straightline power, Go Cubic Inches" has a problem...Instant tire incineration. I vote "The Head Cam Intake swap engines are so much sweeter".

[@unclesquirrel6951]

Personally I blame squirrels soooo ... just saying 😎

[@deanstevenson6527]

@@unclesquirrel6951 🤪✔️

[@sjhudon386]

What compression ratio for 8 psi of boost on 91 octane?

[@richardholdener1727]

INTERCOOLED? COLD AIR INDUCTION? ALUMINUM HEADS? TYPE OF BLOWER OR TURBO?

[@sjhudon386]

@@richardholdener1727 For the combinations tested.

[@richardholdener1727]

THIS WAS 9.9:1 WITH THE TFS HEAD I BELIEVE-347 WAS A TOUCH HIGHER

[@dannykichar9066]

Richard nice power for the 302 na but you gotta put better heads on the 347 then compare performer air gap and victor jr how about testing afr outlaw heads against renagade heads

[@dennisrobinson8008]

rpm air gap is doing big things, it used to be that most EFI intakes were making more torque than the carb intakes even dual planes... Air gap changed that, makes great torque besting many EFI intakes and good power to 7000.

[@jaminturner4585]

Is there a reason you run wide LSA cams?

[@russelljackson7034]

Right on

[@Georgianson]

Hi, Richard. There is a guy on KZbin insisting that changing ignition timing also changes AFR. What is your opinion from theory and experience point of view?

[@richardholdener1727]

WE HAVE SEEN ZERO CHANGES IN AF FROM TIMING CHANGES AND HAVE SEEN AS MUCH AS 1/2 AF POINT-IT'S NOT MUCH

[@Georgianson]

Yes, some people claim thatbthere is a direct connection between AFR and ignition timing as they confuse changing in lambda readings becase of change in temperature and pressure in the combustion chamber causeed by different ignition timing. But ignition spark occurs well after intake and exhaust valves close during compression stroke so there is no way ignition can have any influence on how muck mass of fuel and air got trapped in combustion chamber...

[@scotthultin7769]

First 👍's up thank you for sharing

[@m.pietro9087]

I love these videos. I’m planning to replace my stock heads over an aluminum GT40 heads and have a mild camshaft (smooth idle) no headers. Is it good for like 300 HP?

[@richardholdener1727]

SHOULD BE

[@m.pietro9087]

@@richardholdener1727 thank you. I’d like to have an idea how much power I leaving on the table with stock exhaust manifold in a 300-350 engine.

[@richardholdener1727]

15-18 HP OR SO

[@m.pietro9087]

@@richardholdener1727 thank you!!!

[@jayomega29]

Stock 5.3 with a cam beats that for half the money. 😂😂😂

[@Jontfs300]

Not to mention the 4.8/283

[@alltherpm]

Put the same flowing heads on a 302, it will b close to the same, love how peps praise the LS, well let Ford put on factory aluminum cathedral ports on, then talk

[@Jontfs300]

@@alltherpm oh cries in two cams

[@alltherpm]

@@Jontfs300 I breathe pushrods

[@unclesquirrel6951]

Personally I blame squirrels......

[@evilinside5984]

Sooo, you blame yourself? 😂🤣👌

[@markweber7275]

Fury little buggers!

[@Sweak22v1]

🎉

[@michaelblacktree]

You can tell the one engine is a beast, because it made 666 hp. 😛