Is Performing With A Backing Track Cheating? My Opinion...

[@taobud9280]

I am reminded of Led Zeppelin. The albums had many layered guitar parts as well as keyboards, bass, mandolin, and guitar played by John Paul Jones. When they played live and were considered then one of the very best live shows, they played live...with no backing tracks. The shows were rawer and more unpolished, but they were amazing examples of improvisation and live talent. No one was expecting to hear Jimmy Page layering backing tracks to sound like the albums.

[@rrdream2400]

they were a band that made brilliant albums with multiple layers and innovative production techniques. Live they sounded totally different, no harmonies, one guitar, no bass if JPJ was on keys but yet the songs and members were so strong, it was usually just as good or sometimes better than the record.

[@kevinbrady6075]

@@rrdream2400 and still kicked more ass,......

[@timothyduzenski1386]

Totally understood. But name the 50 other bands that could do that? They were an anomaly. The norm is that most of live players are not very good. The fact is most of the bands you heard even back in the day when they went in the studio they had a crew of people that would actually play. Usually it was only the lead singer that would actually sing. The studio players werent even part of the band.

[@edlawn5481]

That was like The Who of the late 60s, especially with "Tommy", how they played it live, compared to the studio version was completely different, the guitars were much more aggressive, especially on "Sparks".

[@PaulLoughrin]

Agree 💯

[@SaadMGhani]

As a musician from Bangladesh, because of our 'low tech' everything, I and my fellow musicians still play everything live. Guitarist can still play everything sounding like that of the records they did. We still have stage monitors that most of the times probably doesn't work properly. We just go with the flow, and play our gigs. The crowd enjoys and so do we. I believe we are blessed by low tech in this instance!☺️

[@lukahmad5683]

True! The less modern tech you use, the more natural talent we can listen, in my opinion 😆

[@ignacioperandres]

Meetodisfrutooo🎉😂❤

[@mikepriestey2547]

@@lukahmad5683 So you think that this guy's band with low tech, just going with the flow would sound better and be a better show than Falling in reverse with backing tracks? 🤔

[@driaodrums]

Yeah, i still believe a great band can perform on any given backline. It might be different or limiting but skilled musicians should still be able to make most scenarios work.

[@mikepriestey2547]

@@ElvisPriceless What..?

[@andtothewestamerica]

Hearing bands play different versions of songs or making changes to suit the vibe is such a big part of the magic of live shows. Not to mention watching musicians having fun vs. just grinding out a performance.

[@popodopulus3826]

that also can happen with backing tracks

[@llnn5112]

Depends. If it sounds like junk without the extra instrumentation, I'd rather they used backing tracks.

[@ellwitz9838]

It can but too often the ease and comfort of 'not upsetting the cart' precludes it from happening

[@popodopulus3826]

@@ellwitz9838 tell me you never played with backing tracks without telling me you never played with backing tracks hahah

[@VideoArchiveGuy]

It depends upon your taste and personality. Most times I absolutely hate it when artists vary from the version on the recording. That's what I like about some bands who go through the effort to make their live shows sound exactly like the hit recording.

[@dougstull9073]

In the late seventies during a Jethro Tull show, I saw what I consider one of the coolest uses of a backing track. Prior to performing the song, "Songs From the Wood", which begins with a 4 part chorus singing the 1st verse a cappella with Ian Anderson, he came out on stage with the spot light on him and a small table holding a Teac reel to reel recorder. Ian smiled at the audience, held up one finger and pressed play on the recorder to begin the song with the rest of the band joining in at the 2nd verse. Instead of hiding the fact that he was using a backing track for all the voices he didn't have on stage, he made it part of the show.

[@thomascordery7951]

Leonard Cohen used to do something similar, not with a backing track but with a cheap synthesizer in which he'd record a loop that would continue into the song. He'd joke that once he started that thing going it would continue by itself, which scared him a bit. Doing these things openly is okay if it's only an enhancement for some songs and not hidden. Not being able to put on a show at all without your laptop is just weak.

[@tomkristensen3919]

Talking Heads also did it in the beginning of Stop Making Sense.

[@MrDuncanDidit]

James Taylor did that at a show with his band, probably 20 years ago. He had a 10" reel-to-reel deck on wheels, which they rolled out for a ballad with just him, his guitar, and the voices, He triggered the voices on and off with a footswitch to harmonize on certain lines. It was a rubato ballad that would lend itself to such an approach.

[@benjaminhawthorne1969]

That's cool. I LOVE Tull. I attended a couple of Warren Zevon's concerts. He simply did NOT have the money to pay an entire band to accompany him on every show. So, he just did what he did when he made his albums. He played every instrument and recorded these performances into his keyboard/synthesizer. For the performance, Warren sang and played piano, as usual and had the drum machine and synth play drums and guitar. It sounded FANTASTIC!

[@AlexMc9395]

My Tull story doesn't concern the sound, which was ace. Anderson wore a red bowler hat (derby) for their Glasgow gig, on their Heavy Horses tour. At the end of one song, he took it off and whirled it over to John Evan on keyboards, who stood up, caught it, put it on and sat down in perfect timing to end the song. HUGE roar from the crowd. What were the chances of that? It was magnificent. Well, chances were greater than we thought, because the hat was a disguised frisbee!

[@jiml5837]

"All this machinery making modern music, can still be open hearted. Not so fully charted, its really just a question of your honesty, yeah your honesty." - RIP Neil Peart.

[@Aphagiarecordings]

That's what it comes down to.

[@markhogan5892]

Thank you!

[@JamesDziezynski]

Rush always used tasteful backing tracks live (Roll the Bones, The Pass, and Stick It Out come to mind). It sure was cool, though, when they had a mini-orchestra on the Clockwork Angels tour!

[@transact69]

And indeed, Ronnie was being honest!

[@justobustobass]

Well said great reference

[@Left2See]

As long as each person on stage plays their instruments live and the singer acutally sings I don't care if there are tracks to complete the sound. I rather enjoy a full sound than a romantic minimalistic appoach.

[@wurm90125]

100% agreed. And I think a fool like Eddie Trunk constantly beating his drum (to line his own pockets, really) is causing people to miss this point.

[@WishpoolVocal]

"I ain't farting on no snare drum"

[@lanes58]

Then just listen to the original through a good sound system.

[@andimachovec2719]

Completely agree! Though I do sometimes enjoy a more simple aproach to songs when they are played live. Good example is/was Queen. Over-the-top arrangements on record, much more raw rock sound live. And of course they also used pre-recorded tracks for the opera part in the middle of Bohemian Rhapsody. Another important point people seem to miss when they complain about use of backing tracks is that in most situations it's actually harder to play live with backing tracks than without because you have to pay much more attention to the correct timing.

[@Left2See]

@@andimachovec2719 Correct. As soon as a backing Track is on you cannot fail at any point in the song. As well as a Metronom/Tempo Map. This makes everything harder rather than easier.

[@fuzzypoet1018]

I'm an old-school multi-instrumentalist and prefer live music without backing tracks. For me, it's all about the talent and chemistry between real people playing instruments on stage, creating sounds together and sharing that energy with the audience. That's the essence of music for me.

[@gmike912]

Exactly!

[@LOFIAD]

Same to me, if I hear something that can't work out where it's coming from, I find it disappointing

[@Peremptor]

The issue is most of the sound today is fake... so you got to keep faking it.

[@danielhutchinson6604]

Tools are added to the ability to present Music. We can limit the ability to use tools, but Bobby Dylan was called a Heretic for getting Bloomfield to play 'Lectric Guitar..... I did not care for Robby R as much, too flashy.... But the evolution of Music made by Fleetwood Mac, seemed to see changes from the Greeny Days. The appearance of New Members since Bob Brunning left the group, were profitable............Right?

[@Noah-gq7pq]

outstanding damn rite

[@duaneforrand5253]

Supertramp crime of the century tour. 5 people on stage absolutely recreate the recording from start to finish. Most amazing live show I have ever seen

[@alejandropfanner597]

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

[@PSchmidtc]

Don´t forget that they DO HAVE a great LOT pre recorded sounds running from their ROM Disks of their endless ensemble of Keyboards and Synths. And I´m not sorry to spoil your fantasy that they were "absolutely recreating the recording on stage". It´s incredible to imagine how easy it was to fool people, and it´s been almost 50 years and still think it was "all" live. Oh my.

[@alejandropfanner597]

@@PSchmidtc Are you sure? Supertramp, Crime of The Century, 1974. ROM Disc, invented in 1983.

[@PSchmidtc]

​@@alejandropfanner597 bud, I´ve been a Musician, very possibly, longer than you are alive. It´s some 57 years JUST as a professional Musician. No, I wasn´t there in that specific concert. I´ve watched them for the first time, 3 years later, in Munich. I guess you know that ROM stands for "Read-only memory", and those things exist since 1948! No, not the "ROM Disks". The mention to "ROM Disks" we can "thank" to dumb auto-correction in my tablet. But anyways, as I was saying, ROM cards, tapes or whatever, they exist since the 40´s. So, yes there were ways to storage data and manageable data (erasable not read-only) by the 70´s. I had the honor to meet Rick Wakeman and his bass player once, in late 70´s in my city. I was one of the local guys helping with sound infrastructure of his concert. Casually I had opportunity to exchage a few words about music and equiment with both of them. His Bass player had a device, some magnetic tape card, where he could store pre-recorded extra basslines, as per his words "it gives me an extra pair of hands (laughs)" Isn´t it incredible that smartphones (the way we know it now) have less than 20 years?! BUT if you´ve watched Blade Runner 1982 (the first movie), some 40 plus years ago, there are some pivotal scenes that shows how these things works; Harrison Ford arrives in his apartment, put his eye at the door and it opens by "iris recognition" in early 80´s? Late on that sequence he is sitting at the couch, has a picture in his hand made with some very bright flashy material. He stands up, insert that picture to what looks like a "laser disc"? Its image shows up in a side monitor, large screen. He interacts with that machine by voice, wow! Yes, Voice Command in early 80´s. "Siri" was that you by then, already? LOL. And that´s not all. He touches the screen to maximize the picture with his two fingers! Go back and watch that movie again, if ever. You will find out all those impressive things. Particularly impressive when you think that the process to make that movie started in late 70´s. So what I´m saying here, is that these technologies have been around for couple many years. Maybe not available for us, regular OEM consumers, but for the big guys in the industry? YES For sure!

[@maddestG1]

Now thats craft

[@philking8070]

For me playing live creates the opportunity of things going constructively wrong, and the great satisfaction of reacting to it in a manner that makes the audience think you meant it. I once played a gig during which a song we'd played hundreds of times, "Already Gone by The Eagles, found us reach the chorus and all four of us stopped playing exactly together - we don't know why to this day, but instead of collapsing we just sang the chorus a capella with spontaneous harmonies, and came back in exactly together to finish the song conventionally. My best friend who watched us a lot wouldn't believe that we hadn't practiced the effect for weeks and weeks. You need to know and trust each other well to be able to do that of course, but for me, those are the moments you play for.

[@lsrose]

That would have been awesome to see … and hear!

[@gizmogearloose3391]

You are not wrong! You just described the kind of spontaneity, magic, vibe, whatever you may call it, that can't be achieved with a backing track. But your friend was right, in a way. Most of us on stage get that vibe. Most audiences get a completely different vibe.

[@PersonaltrainerPaulG]

that sounds so so cool.

[@SM-bm6jo]

Funny it was an Eagles song. They were so polished from being touring perfectionists when I saw them in the 80's before they broke up after The Long Run. They did not have a flashy stage presence. They were just cool guys and the stage presence was the flawless music they made. They did Seven Bridges Road without Autotune or overdubbing. If ever you have a chance and interest look for the isolated vocal tracks of that song. I did not think the day would come but they definitely used Autotune on the last live tour recorded with Glenn Frey. BTW, if you have Serious FM they have an exclusive recording of the band with Glenn's son Deacon filling in for him. He fits perfectly with the band. He is not Glenn's clone, he fills in an area that was open and who would have ever known there was space for anyone else? He may sing Glenn's parts but he does them his way and it sounds like a space was meant for him. He has since left the band. Why? Why? Why?

[@maureenlewis-kolkey1415]

Agree it's the 'wrongness' that leads to innovation and true creativity.

[@alexanderlyon]

As long as it's not a primary instrument or lead vocals, I'm fine with it. AND as long as the cumulative impact of tracks doesn't overwhelm the actual live instrument and vocal sound.

[@skrap73]

I agree, I've seen many bands play without a bass player just using a track to play along with and it's not the same. One band I seen play without a bass player at least had the track going through an actual bass head and cabinet so it sounded more authentic on stage at least.

[@Velkro5000]

I played to backing tracks in multiple bands. It was awesome but when I played in a band with NO backing tracks years later, it was the greatest feeling ever. I have nothing against backing tracks. I just wanted to add to the conversation that playing with out them is a much more satisfying experience.

[@DrummerRF]

Yeah, i think its also a matter of whether you need them to perform your music live. Some bands just dont because the band is all there is.

[@rebeccaabraham8652]

There’s a certain something when a group of musicians play together with just what’s in their hands - and it just goes right; indescribable!

[@One.Zero.One101]

Music has really hit rock bottom when a professional band cancels a show because they can't play live.

[@johnc.8298]

It's karaoke.

[@AlbertWeijers]

I saw a Queen tribute band with 4 guys, so all the synths and piano's were on a track, anonther Queen trubite had 2 extra woman singers, one played keyboards, i much more enjoyed the last band, they did under pressure as a duet. Don't give me a backing track on a live gig please!

[@chiefchimp2789]

This is why Pearl Jam are so great live. You could argue that they're significantly better live than on their studio albums.

[@mikeburnsmusic]

I don’t love some of their later albums but imo Ten is one of the greatest top to bottom rock albums ever… so your comment is saying a lot!

[@raulio81]

That's why they should stop playing live twenty years ago.

[@TankTheTech]

There are a lot of exceptions to the “bands are locked into a click track” part of this discussion (as I’m sure Rick is aware, he just didn’t break it down.) The artist I was working for for years up until the pandemic had bridges and other parts of songs where the click/tracks/programming would stop, allowing for off the cuff solos, band intros, talking without the crowd, and whatever else. And when they wanted to kick back into the actual song, the drummer (or playback tech) would cue a count off for the band to hear, and the tracks/programming would start again in that next part. It can be done, but it has to be precise and most often requires a drummer with great timing.

[@jazzbassoonpaul]

Very important point you made there. Having worked for Cirque Du Soleil I can tell you that all their modern shows have an element of Ableton live in there and an Ableton operator who can change things up when the action on the stage requires it. Its a great way to mix spontaneity with form and still get the lush arrangement of the album mix.

[@joshcharlat850]

Intelligent approach.

[@themadmallard]

@@jazzbassoonpaul yes, but then its an instrument in some sense now too, not a crutch.

[@worldssickestmedia2713]

Queen had to use backing tracks to perform Bohemian Rhapsody in its entirety. Because the song was to big for the band to do live. And I didn't hear this band till this current issue. Not my cup of tea. But those guys make a big sound. A way bigger sound than what a 4 or 5 piece rock band can make. With the sound they make there'd probably be 3 or 4 more people in the band to pull it off 100% live. For anyone that's a musician it should be completely obvious that those guys have to use backing tracks live. Like seriously guys. Where did you think all the EDM breakdowns, synthesizers and orchestral sounds were coming from? Hell maybe it's his Kemper and it makes his guitar sound like a 10 piece Orchestra with a bass drop at the end? Ya think? Those boys aren't up their lip syncing. They're actually really talented kids. I'm 43 and even I'll say "these old azz guys need to get over that sh!t". Times have changed. What used to be a quarter million dollar studio can now fit in a bag. A stage production that used to take a 25 person crew can now be run by 6 or 7 guys and a laptop. I guarantee in the 50s and 60s there were a bunch of old azz dudes talking about how whack Marshall Stacks and Les Paul's were and how playing acoustic guitar and stomping on an old milk crate was way cooler and took more talent. This is the modern day equivalent.

[@JoeStuffzAlt]

@@worldssickestmedia2713 Adding to this: Bradley Hall made a great point. Studios used to invest a lot of money into rock bands that they don't do now. Music used to make much more money. Do studios now take a band into a house to stay at for a few months, read through the lead singer's journal and find a great entry, and tell them "you should write this as a song!" (See the Professor of Rock's Story of Under the Bridge) A lot of it now is done at home.

[@WHCAudio]

Tracks are cool and have their use, but nothing beats a raw live performance from talented individuals playing in harmony with each other.

[@RebeccaTurner-ny1xx]

... along with a set of great tracks to fill out the sound. Unless you want to triple the ticket price for the extra musicians on stage, which is also fine to do.

[@Get_Yo_Life]

@@shiftd_1114you don’t even play an instrument

[@howabouthetruth2157]

Exactly. Thank you.

[@nietzscheankant6984]

@@RebeccaTurner-ny1xx If you can't handle a live performance being a live performance, live performances might not be for you.

[@RebeccaTurner-ny1xx]

@@nietzscheankant6984 Tell that to all the fine musicians who have been happily playing live to tracks for decades. Do you include drum machines and sequencers in that category of "not live"? Although I'm no longer a gigging musician, I loved the accuracy and repeatability of sequenced tracks live, along with the obvious fact that they allowed me to create a bigger sound. As they say, you only have to punch the information into a drum machine once...

[@jeffanderson8384]

The reason I go to live shows IS to see the spontaneity and creativity of the artists. Not knocking what tools the artist uses to accomplish their sound but it sure is nice to see bands and artist perform "au naturel".

[@travisthree11]

Yeah, I don't want to see a perfect replication of the studio track I listen to on my stereo all the time. I want to hear them play it at maybe a slightly different tempo, maybe extend a solo, some improvisation.

[@RobertNasir]

Right on. I already own the album ... if I want to hear it note for note, I'll just put on the record. Play it slower, faster, worse, better ... but different ... warts and all ... make it real. Otherwise, what's the point?

[@kazvanrooij]

@@ari1234a lol no more synths. Really... its been 40 years and your still crying about a device that can create new sounds.

[@doublestrokeroll]

OK...but not everybody is you. Some people don't care. They're not wrong for not caring about that stuff.

[@jbmw16]

@@doublestrokeroll Most people do care for it, the concept of concert is more towards what he described, most people see concert and interpret it correctly, there is always odd people out who like to go to a digital backing track rich "concert".

[@leokimvideo]

I saw Twentyonepilots a few years ago. Here is a band with two members but had a huge full production sound when playing 'live'. Much of what I was hearing was pre recorded music done to an amazing light show, makes for a very non organic concert. When I did band pyro work in the 90's maybe the only artist who was playing a real show was Prince. Just about every big live show heavily relied on a tightly pre scripted lighting show that was synced with the music, of course the pyro cues could be in sync as well. In the end the pyro becomes a 'no fire' instruction if the 'show' was running the cues. I certainly witnessed Bon Jovi, Bobby Brown, Motley Crue and lots of others rely heavily on parts of the show that were pre recorded. As Rick says here this has been in the live music scene for a very long time, it's sad it's now becoming so heavily relied on to a point where a live show is basically a complete lip sync performance. And when thinking of this in the extreme look at Paul Stanley of Kiss. Pauls been caught out several times well away from a microphone yet he's singing very loudly in a song. I'm certainly not paying $500 to see this style of live show no matter how final the tour is. If they cant play live a band needs to retire when it can no longer sings it's own songs. Yep, playing with backing tracks is ripping off fans unless it's clearly disclosed in the ticket sales.

[@juicyfruit6311]

Joe Elliot of Def Leppard admitted to using backing tracks to "sweeten" the vocals during the Hysteria tour. I read this back when the Milli Vanilli scandal first broke. This stuff isn't new. I remember going to a Cinco De Mayo festival with Gloria Trevi (look her up) singing on stage. She was hopping up and down while singing. The band was playing loudly. Then, the music stops dead cold. She kept going. 1 minute later, the music starts up and it's like the blooper never happened. This was back in the early 80s.

[@patrickkenney9910]

I agree. You can add some parts to have a better sound, but replace yourself is cheating.

[@harrisongwin6859]

twenty one pilots is fully within their rights to do that ya. and Tyler from that band creates all those sounds from absolute scratch, the drums are real and the bass is real live, its the best they can do

[@manager4409]

kiss has so many suckers willing to give them money I don't really blame them for taking advantage.

[@stephensanchez9590]

I totally agree if it just backing vocals ok but if the singer is lip syncing and not singing or the band is not playing I am not paying to see them plain and simple

[@NickMcC]

I'm a full time audio engineer. I totally agree with you. I want it to be live as much as it can. But I'm also all for supplementing it with tracks. The people I typically work with have portions of the show that are clicked and portions that are spontaneous. And these days, programs like Ableton can allow spontaneity if needed. You're exactly right about more being dependent on it than just audio. Lighting, video pieces, LED wall content, etc are all being cued with midi over network or tied to timecode. Ideally, all this stuff enhances the content of the show instead of substituting for it. Although, I always feel better if we can function without it and fire the whole show manually if needed. And 90% of the time we can. It's a balance I guess.

[@brianwest2775]

Based on what Rick said, it seems to me that every show should have one or two songs without backing tracks that they can improvise with, to bring some spontaneity, to change things up, because Rick said that the truly completely live bands who could change things up have the largest live success. I assume that he wasn't simply talking about song choice and order but how they are played. When writing and producing each album, consciously include at least one song that can be played completely live, without feeling out of place.

[@ericdegaston8201]

I no longer go to any live performances other than ten dollar punk shows, because the whole point of watching something live is because it's new and real and unpredictable never going to be exactly the same experience before or since. It's watching somebody build something and knowing they could screw it up. Anything else is just a loud stereo with moving visuals, I could just turn up my volume at home and watch the VU needles for a lot cheaper than a couple seats at a recorded and overly choreographed show. This is all my opinion, but it's also my money that I'm not spending on tickets to those shows - that's not up for debate.

[@PianoVampire]

@@ericdegaston8201 100% agree

[@FadedHipster]

@@ericdegaston8201 I mean I like jazz fusion played live and snarky puppy tends to record their concerts as their albums live

[@michaelcougar6589]

you wouldn't feel this way if you weren't an audio engineer. the final stage of this progression is a sad sanitized White musical tragedy that you don't want to see.

[@driaodrums]

I used to play with backings with my Band, and eventually we decided to scrap the laptop, mainly because we didnt want to deal with the stress of our performance literally hanging on a usb-cable. Also we became a much tighter Band as we had to listen to each other instead of clicktracks.

[@videditorEB1]

How’d you replace all the missing music?

[@driaodrums]

@@videditorEB1 For the most part we didnt. We went through our backing track and asked our selves, Do we really NEED that live? We kept two samples that I trigger manually with a sample pad, everything else was scrapped. That also has the nice side effect that our band is now way easier to mix as the sound is not as cluttered. And you d be surprised how little people care live about the fourth layer of guitar or backroundvocals or bass drops.

[@l30n.marin3r0]

The usb-cable or the software or laptop crapping out on you because of reasons xD

[@n1troni]

Thats why some bands and artists dont create songs they cant play live i.e. Like with 7 guitars 5 synths etc.. If u cant play it live its probably not worth putting on a record​@@driaodrums

[@err0r2]

Backing Track never bother me but still a big bummer when band cancels show because of missing laptop. It's pretty scary if your entire live performance depends on a laptop.

[@BsesSlwlI]

that's why I use cloud ☁️

[@MrSJPowell]

What's the saying? "Have a backup, and a backup for the backup."

[@henatatorplays]

Yeah, people are less bothered by using backing tracks and more bothered that they can't even put on a show without them. They're supposed to be a whole rock band but they can't even play the songs together because every song relies on the laptop.

[@Mitch3po]

The problem is all their laptops (along with backups) were sent to the wrong place and Falling In Reverse use the laptops for their backing tracks, orchestra, some songs require a more hip hop style of track in parts and they use it for the lighting as well

[@hags568]

This ^^^^. 5 pro musicians with their instruments find out the day before the gig their laptops are missing. Heaps of time to vary the arrangements and set list of their own songs. Instead cancel the show. 100% ok to have backing tracks at a show, but to cancel is pathetic.

[@thegamergodcontrollord5061]

I played in a cover/wedding band for 12 years. ("The Promise". Binghamton, NY). We eventually used sequences on a handful of songs (Funkytown, Don't Get Fooled Again, Heart of Glass, Smooth (Santana), The Power of Love (Celine Dion) Comfortably Numb...) The sequences were played from my Ensoniq TS-10 keyboard. (I played keyboard and guitar in the band.) When I thought that we were trying to play a song that needed more than the four members of the band to be able to pull off, I persuaded the others to use the sequence. It worked very well for us. There was an "auxiliary" output on the keyboard that allowed me to send a click track and other clues to the drummer, who was wearing headphones. When a four piece band is trying to cover a song like "Smooth," there's a lot of space that needs to be filled. There's a pronounced Latin piano part, an organ part, the horn section... and the whole time, I can't take my hands off the guitar to do any of the other parts. I don't we ever had any problems staying in sync. Most of the gig we were otherwise totally live. If a song required more parts than four people could do, we'd use the sequencer. Typically, in a four hour gig, we'd use it for maybe 6 songs.

[@RockAndRollRockhound]

Greetings from Ontario, Canada. My band opened for a well known Canadian country duo a couple of years before the pandemic. They were a 5 piece band with approximately 32 extra backing tracks. Well, their little machine malfunctioned. 10 minutes of dead silence. They made heart signs and asked if anyone had a birthday, but they couldn’t continue until the whatever they were using was fixed. 5 guys on stage that couldn’t play a song without backing tracks. To me that’s embarrassing.

[@lanes58]

Pathetic is a better word.

[@VladimirChupin]

That's strange. I remember BAND-MAID lost their luggage in 2018 on their way from Moscow to Helsinki, including Kanami's guitar and what they called "the interface" (I think they meant the laptop with all the backing tracks). Kanami had to run around Helsinki to search for a guitar to rent. But during the show, they managed perfectly fine. A few improvisations here and there, and all the spaces were filled to everyone's satisfaction. P.S. The lost luggage was found, they said so in the middle of the show.

[@sewellparanormal6351]

How can they feel the energy of the music? Performing would be boring. No backing tracks for me please.

[@mikeydesignssilkscreen473]

If you can't play a single tune without, that's an issue. From my experience we would just use them to fill out a song. If things went sideways, we'd kill the backing and continue to perform that song live without the backing, which all it did was fill out what drums, bass, guitar, and the singer couldn't. For the most part though, 95% of our sets were live with those 4 live instruments.

[@sewellparanormal6351]

@@mikeydesignssilkscreen473 did it feel right? I'm not judging at all believe me. I just wonder if the vibe was good. I'm not a professional musician just been a few punk bands has all, so not much required to perform you know? But yeah, I've always wondered about that.

[@mitchleicester7449]

I saw Duran Duran in the 80s and they were upfront at the start of the show that they would be using some backing tracks because it would be logistically impossible to recreate them on stage. It was an amazing show and no-one cared what was live and what was off tape. they were honest and brilliant.

[@haro82]

Yes a lot of their older material has arpeggios etc that can't be played live.

[@MrRezRising]

I never owned an album by them, but as a drummer, I never turned them off the radio either. Such a great, pop, rhythm section.

[@AlbertWeijers]

@@haro82 So what, leave the arpeggio's out of it! If you add 2 keyboard players to a rock band, you can recreate everything so that the public hears 90% of how the record sounded, no tracks needed.

[@haro82]

I agree with you. Leave the stuff out that can't be played live.

[@sergeinester6261]

Queen played a tape for Bohemian Rhapsody live for the Operatic section and they’d walk off stage to show they weren’t playing it live. In the early days they’d simply add a medley of other songs where the operatic section would normally be. However they adapted their live set to account for the necessary changes needed for playing live. They were often considered two bands. The studio songs and the live songs.

[@D_phillips17]

Also now when performing with Adam Lambert Roger plays off of Freddie’s piano track in his headphones and Brian follows suit

[@funlovingvoyeur]

They used to have Spike Edney play piano backstage, or even some extra rhythm guitar. I loved it when he joined them on stage for Hammer to Fall to play rhythm next to Brian, or piano when Freddie would stand up to entertain the crowd.

[@sergeinester6261]

@@funlovingvoyeur i garee Spike was great. Interesting listening to his interview about how he started with them.

[@jukip1485]

@@sergeinester6261 what do you mean was? spikes still there

[@jukip1485]

@@D_phillips17 where did you hear that?

[@mandolinic]

Went to a party yesterday. The main entertainment was a duo of professional musicians with no backing tracks, no sequences, no special effects - just a basic PA with a bit of EQ and reverb. Nothing else. They were mesmerising.

[@joaopmreis]

Excellent reflection. More and more I get away from spending money to go to a big concert by a band because you realize the "perfection" that the digitization of music creates. I go more and more to bars where you play without gimmicks and you give money to the person who actually plays, in the moment and without any hidden tricks. Amazing Rick Beato!!!

[@ProGoTones]

tons of bar bands play to tracks in bars

[@darko714]

Bingo! I do exactly that.

[@darko714]

@@ProGoTones You’re right. I mostly go to open mikes, bring a guitar or bass, and jam with someone if the opportunity arises. If a band is using tracks, I like to go up after their show and ask them how they control the mix etc.

[@SM-bm6jo]

Bars have crappy sound systems and acoustics though. Many times a good band sound no better than a garage band.

[@zackymueller]

I have this conversation with my friends all the time. I personally don’t use backing tracks with my band but almost every single one of my friends do. I don’t think backing tracks are “wrong” unless they are being used to cover up not being able to play your own songs. I generally find shows that are propped up by backing tracks to be boring. I want to see people actually play their instrument and mess up. I just saw the smile in SF and Jonny greenwood messed up the delay part in thin thing for like a couple beats and managed to pull it back into perfect time. That’s the stuff I want to see. Humans being human.

[@henrygerwien186]

Totally agree, that.s what I want to see in live shows, no laptops!

[@johnc.8298]

Karaoke with instruments.

[@krispykremekiller]

I'll add that the way Rush did this was best. They had some short samples that the band triggered. Even backing vocals. This raised the degree of difficulty to their level. Not many people could sing and trigger their own backing vocals with their feet the way Geddy Lee did live.

[@spkernal]

I would add to that; Neil Peart famously hated touring, but he did it because as he wrote in one of his books, "a real band plays live."

[@spydermag5644]

I listen to RUSH almost every day. I loved going to their shows. I have been to several where Alex has broken a string during a song. His guitar would drop out. As soon as the new guitar got on to Alex he would join right back into the song. I was there when Neil broke a Tom and someone replaced it during the song it was amazing to watch and hear a different drum being played for that beat while fix was being done.

[@ronforeman2556]

Yep. Otherwise, Aimee Mann would have had to go on hiatus from 'Til Tuesday to accompany RUSH on the "Hold Your Fire" tour.

[@DabsDad]

Roll the Bones

[@marksc1929]

Geddy Lee could fly 2 helicopters simultaneously

[@troyducote1846]

Thank You! Thank You! The questions you addressed in this episode have always concerned me and made me wonder about the authenticity of a live act. As long as the recorded addition tracts are for background support, then I have no problem with them. I really like to hear my favorite bands play my favorite songs like they sound when I sing along. You did an awesome job explaining how and why they are used.

[@donyandresen8063]

As a songwriter in a three piece band I always put the rhythm guitar really low in the solo and make sure the bass can stand out on its own so it sounds good live, write a song that you can play live and you never have to worry about backing track mistakes!

[@zennjimm]

As a bass player I approve!

[@MNskins11]

Yes!

[@eboethrasher]

That's nice if you actually have all of the instruments you need to make up a band when you start a project.

[@RebeccaTurner-ny1xx]

And then you end up not changing or progressing your sound. Pretty much every artist and band has come up against this problem. That's partly why the Beatles stopped touring.

[@erikthered9670]

@@RebeccaTurner-ny1xx you can change your sound and progress as an artist without adding instruments and sounds that you don't actually play. If the only way you can "improve your sound" over time is by writing stuff that you cannot play then you just aren't any good.

[@cruzvasquez9369]

I like live bands. There’s something about knowing that anything could go wrong at any second. It really shows how impressive they are and how much work they put into their performance.

[@suemiller2522]

Saw Bad Religion at Riot Fest last month and Brian Baker's guitar messed up right in the beginning and once more during a later track. But he's a seasoned pro and played right through it and the band never skipped a step. Sound guys fixed it and the show was fantastic and high-energy.

[@answerguru]

100% with you. I don’t really listen to mainstream music for this reason...give me my jambands, Colorado jamgrass, and progressive bluegrass. I want to hear it live and hear the true musicianship and variations they put in night to night. Organic, as music should be.

[@probusexcogitatoris736]

Well, by that logic you should love backing tracks. The more technology you have, the more things can go wrong. Look, having all this technology is not necessarily about making things easy. Playing live to a backing track is not easy. That requires serious skills.

[@wimsele]

That is such a great point about a true LIVE performance... It's also the difference between seeing a movie or a stage play for instance...where things go wrong, people adapt and each performance is a unique moment in time.

[@barbarabrundage4625]

Surprised you didn’t mention Queen! They take great pride in playing their shows live.

[@Klaus80804]

I liked the way Queen did it, at least when I saw them in the 70s. They did Bohemian Rhapsody. And at the part where they had multiple overdubbed vocals - that famous "Mama mia, Mama mia, let me go" part - they all left the stage, more or less saying, until here we can do it live, but this is impossible and so we leave you with the tapes for half a minute or so, and they came back with the fast guitar solo, played live of course. Think that was an very honest way of using tapes!

[@Alex-Defatte]

That's cool and funny. Respect to Queen even more : )

[@eddie1brazil]

Check live Aid on headphones, where is the choir on stage?

[@brianjones8432]

​@@eddie1brazil The Live Aid performance stops prior to the large choral portion of the song. They only do the first half.......smfh

[@eddie1brazil]

@@brianjones8432 sorry I think you misunderstood me. I meant throughout the show not the arrangement they did for that song. But never mind, not everyone can hear or understand this.

[@brianjones8432]

@@eddie1brazil No, I understood you just fine. The OP was specifically talking about the middle section. The larger choral portion of the song. Queen had ALWAYS performed it that way live. They would play 100% live right up until that portion of the song, and then walk off stage and a reel-to-reel would play the middle section, and then they would come back out for the finale. There are countless videos here on KZbin of them doing it this way at other shows. Live-Aid was no different. They just stopped at the point where they would have started the tape. They also had a supplemental keyboardist at Live-Aid as well, which they had been doing for years at that point live.

[@EdBeardsley]

I have been making backing track for 20 years. I make the full demo on my DAW and then remove the lead vocal and the lead guitar and go out and perform. To me, its more about the sound of the music than the performance. People applaud for my singing and guitar playing. The backing tracks make the song sound better. It is actually more difficult to play in this arrangement because if you make a mistake like not coming in at the right time, the backing tracks can not follow you like a full band might be able to.

[@AlbertWeijers]

That's fine if you are a one man band. And it is more difficult. If you sing and play guitar with a backing track it makes total sense and I would enjoy it!

[@Bill_N_ATX]

I was working local crew in the early Eighties when both backing tracks and automated light shows came about. The first time it really came together was a Hall and Oats show. They were using the brand new Vari-lite computerized and movable lights and had a bunch of sequenced audio parts. They had to do the lights like that. There wasn’t enough computer processor to do it any other way. Personally, I like music that doesn’t use or need backing tracks. I’m more Americana, bluegrass, singer songwriter type. For those guys, all the automation would just get in the way. And for real bluegrass, watching four or five musicians work a single mic is a work of art.

[@jrpipik]

Aimee Mann's group was playing a show in NYC and there was a power failure. They lit candles and played the show acoustically. I wasn't there, but they say it was a great show. That's what a group of musicians should be capable of.

[@Spekkie1111]

I have seen from hearsay that it was great.

[@jefflacefield1774]

This is why I'm a huge fan of punk rock bands playing in a small bar. It's so beautiful with all It's flaws because emotion trumps perfection which makes perfection. It's about energy and engaging with the crowd. Organic and real. You don't need fancy lights. You don't want the band to sound exactly like the record. You want humans, not machines playing music.

[@andreaferrero6533]

Yes, I loved Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, Hendrix, etc. because they would also improvise most of their solos. You listen to "Lazy" in Made in Japan and the studio version they are almost two different songs. The best approach was Queen's when they were leaving the stage for the central part of Bohemian Rhapsody, because they knew they couldnt replicate that live, so they left the tape, and came back on stage for the last part of the song. I love Muse, but I dont share their concept of a concert as a "show": dont care for lights or explosions, if I go to a concert I want to hear interplay between the musicians, even if (or especially because of) it doesnt sound like the record.

[@RyanHannaMusic]

its just a different approach, im sure they are perfectly capable of playing without tech aids, but they arent supposed to be tech aids, they are aesthetic compositional tools that they want to recreate in a live setting. its nothing to do with a lack of ability, its an aesthetic choice, one that maybe relied too much on the tech they ended up loosing. the aesthetic choice of punk is exactly not that, it doesnt make either party wrong or right, its just music. fck

[@Lodgiefitness]

Glad you mentioned guitarists and AxeFX /NeuralDSP. It's made it easier for them instead of lugging a 4x12 an amp

[@djpuffinstuff33]

I like watching a band have the flexibility of adding an extra chorus or stopping to interact with the audience and then picking it back up again or the natural interplay of musicians feeding off each other which sometimes includes subtle tempo changes. Many from my generation (I'm 56) complain that recordings are locked on a grid but the use of backing tracks for live performances essentially creates the same effect. Using backing tracks on a couple of tunes per show to fill in instruments or effects the audience expects is ok but if the whole show is programmed then it's really just expensive karaoke, except in many instances the vocal parts aren't live either.

[@renoutlaw8371]

Nowadays you can pretty easily still do all that with the tracks. All you need is a talkback mic (or hell just good hand signals) and someone competent running the tracks. I played with a church where we used tracks for most of the mix and we were still able to change arrangements on the fly if we needed to because they had a midi controller (with pedalboard like buttons) that let the singer just start a new chorus or extend the instrumental or whatever by just stepping on one of the stomp buttons.

[@Zer0Spinn]

I'm with Ren Outlaw. I don't think that most of what you talk about and using backing tracks are mutually exclusive. Specially of the backing tracks are midi you can play, stop, speed up, slow down, transpose, etc no problem at all. But if we are pragmatic, no matter if we like it or not, like electronic elements back in the day, computers are here to stay. We can complain about how using backing tracks is not playing live the same way people complained that using amplification to project your voice is cheating or that adding distortion to a guitar is "just making noise".

[@renoutlaw8371]

@@Zer0Spinn I think it's similar to the discussion around autotune where part of the negative connotation comes from the fact that most of the time if someone's utilizing it well, you're not going to notice they're using it. So people's idea of what it looks like is the sloppy instances because those are the ones that stick out.

[@Zer0Spinn]

@@renoutlaw8371 Yeah, I totally agree with that too. At the end of the day, I value the classic getting 4 people in the same room and feeling your way through the jam as much as the super planned out, backing track using, live shows if they are both well done and the music speaks to me. It's music, who cares? This types of arguments only matter for people like us who have trouble separating our egos from our artistic process haha

[@tomcanningmusic4923]

Agreed John. All of my band's tracks can be played organically and sound fine, but we have one with a prominent violin part, and another song with a prominent synth/organ part. We use tracks for those two songs as we don't have a violin or keys player. It doesn't take away from the live experience at all in my opinion. Especially given that we sometimes jam during sections of the other songs on stage!

[@damnationistoday]

If you're in a band that has sound effects, synths, and other ear candy that's on your album I think it's very important to use it. It's part of the music you're playing. Adding to your music YES. Having someone fake play/sing? Absolutely not.

[@lanes58]

A really good band, doesn’t need extra bells and whistles to enhance their sound. For example, a good trio…less is more.

[@damnationistoday]

@@lanes58 yeah probably for a band like Pantera... there's other genre's out there that have techno, synths, bass drops, and bells that ARE part of the sound. Not everyone likes a simple trio band.

[@Hamboarding]

@@damnationistoday Totally agree! It's great we have these opportunities for new sounds!

[@6StringsOfSalvation]

I agree on that aspect ALONE if its there in your car you want it on the stage and that was my point. To keep it as they bought the ticket to hear. when you hear a song and it becomes i know this is tacky so bare with me but when it becomes your jam the song you keep going back to driving around etc that is what you want when you go see the show as well isn't it? it is for me i know that much i am 49 and its been that way my whole life and i think we should expect that from shows OK Enuff Said Blessed day to all who chimed in

[@franzchubert3808]

I m not against it, it is what is, but they're dependent on factors alien from their musicianship.Doesn't happen in classical or jazz for example, where what you see is what you get. It also limits the improvisational possibilities.

[@MaddogJones]

I'm a fan of a great rock trio out of Mexico, The Warning, three sisters that have been playing and recording music since they were children. As a three piece band it's often difficult produce a full sound so they have integrated backing tracks in their live performance. The drummer programs and controls the set list from her laptop running Ableton Live. This runs the click track, backing tracks, video playback and other effects. But the thing is they have had technical issues with the laptop and software but they were able to continue on without anybody ever noticing. That's the important thing, those are all just tools and should never be used as a crutch to cover up lack of talent. Backing tracks should be used to augment the show not be the show. The artist should always be able to play their music live.

[@armynurseboy]

And this is the important piece. Backing tracks are an ENHANCEMENT to the live sound. Bands should be able to pull off most of their catalog live, although it may not sound as full due to parts missing. The Warning understands that. My current fave band is Band-Maid. They do live shows with Backing tracks because their compositions are just really complex and can't be fully recreated with live instruments. Well, one show, their Backing track messed up and was off, throwing thd band off, and they had to do a rare mid-song stop. They couldn't get the track working, so they just said screw it, and played the song without the track. It sounded just fine.

[@Amaranthine1000]

You only have to see Crimson Queen at Foro Didi where Dany's guitar failed, OK so it is not a backing track, but she went on to perform that song without it and it was incredible. But as you say there have been times when the laptop has failed and yet they still put on one hell of a show. One of the reactors just pointed out that UGH on the studio version there is a guitar harmony on the song that they don't have when performing it live, yet is still sounds great. I hadn't noticed that at all until he pointed it out, they could have put that on the backing track but they didn't.

[@seanbrennan6189]

The Warning is really good. The drummer sings lead on some songs. AND works a laptop?!? Backing tracks can yes, augment. Going old school, Rush claimed to make every sound. Peart said he recorded his own vocal drums, his voice making a woosh like sound or the like. Then he would add that to the electronic drums. It is still his voice, simply use of modern tech. Great discussion!

[@KrystofDreamJourney]

Exactly! Tracks as “augmentation” Of overall sound. NOT as replacement of anything. Just adding elements that are impossible to play given amount of performers on stage. That’s all.

[@jessebrennan7130]

The Warning... Love them

[@jimcarter7742]

I think it’s important to note that backing tracks does not mean the band is lip syncing. I think a lot of people have the impression that it is.

[@One.Zero.One101]

But it could also mean that they are lip syncing, there are crappy bands that absolutely do that.

[@RolloC84]

@@One.Zero.One101 And others implement live pitch correction, like auto tune, so the signing you hear still isn’t the singer’s natural voice. So instead of seeing and hearing talented musicians that have mastered their craft, you’re listening to the same song as it is on Spotify but watching actors mime to it. That is not live music, that’s acting. And while acting and music are both classified as art forms and entertainment, pretending to be one while practicing the other is simply misleading and dishonest. That’s why I have a problem with it.

[@Bmxicano2]

Once in a while I go to big concerts and I can tell they're using tracks. But I often go to small venues to see cover bands and I gotta say I enjoy them more because I can tell they're playing their instruments, I'm like 5 feet from them and it's so cool hearing live music coming out the speakers.

[@kimstrickland65]

One of the things I like to see in live music is how the musicians deal with the limitations that performing live presents. Songs have to be rearranged to fit the musicians and instruments at hand, and that can lead to something remarkable - even more compelling than the studio recording. In that case, watching a live performance is seeing music being made in the present moment, not something that was recorded previously - it is the musical equivalent to a high wire act. Doing it the old fashioned way also allows a greater amount of improvisation and adapting to how the audience reacts. Now, I realize that there are a lot of folks that get upset when a band plays a song that differs even a little from their hit, and using previously recorded tracks allows the music to be more complex and closer to the original recording, but this takes it out of the realm of being truly live.

[@jeromedavies2408]

I remember when Pink Floyd did the "Pulse" tour. They didn't use backing tracks, but they did have two drummers, two keyboard players, two guitarists, three backing singers and a whole load of recorded effects.

[@scottcharney1091]

That's similar to some of Moby's tours, where he has people who sing the vocal samples that he used in the studio. Beck has had a large backing band to play the samples. Also, if we're just talking about recreating intricate sounds, The Smashing Pumpkins added Mike Garson on piano, along with a pair of percussionists. They were going to add Lisa Germano on violin, but that fell through.

[@markconner5341]

@@scottcharney1091 that costs a whole lot more. There is an over saturation of music these days and bands don’t make much touring. I do accounting and tax work for several bands in the Falling In Reverse genre.

[@scottcharney1091]

@@markconner5341 True; those are major-label examples. The point is that "live means live." It's possible now to at least trigger the samples in real-time. They're still being "played," so to speak. Rush might have pioneered that, precisely because they didn't want to bring along a keyboardist/backing vocalist, and they refused to use a backing track.

[@wurm90125]

Pink Floyd has sold how many albums? They could afford the extra musicians and effects and the logistics required to set it up every night. Most groups can't do it, which is why technology is really the only answer.

[@Aaron-zh4kj]

What are those "whole load of recorded effects"? Those are tracks. That's where people get really blurry and undiscerning in this conversation. Pink Floyd's songs/tracks were so involved and crazy that if you didn't have a way to trigger those sounds effects/ambience, it wouldn't be the same song. Keep in mind, Pink Floyd did this basically before anyone else did almost, and they had to do it with tape, back in The Wall days. Those guys were revolutionary.

[@todhornby9476]

Elton John in the 70’s, live with Funeral for a Friend/Love Lies Bleeding! The opening minute and a half wind and synth intro lit up every auditorium across America when he was promoting Yellow Brick Road. It was stunning and theatrical!

[@thoughtsbeforesleep]

I don't have an issue with backing tracks, but it really makes me appreciate when a band puts in the extra effort (and money!) to have live performers covering all the 'extra' parts, such as Ghost who had 3 keyboardists on stage last time I saw them.

[@harryfuzz9114]

I think Ghost relies heavily on backing tracks... he doesnt have the greatest voice ever so there´s definitely backing vocals there ... and I m also sure that there are a shitton of extra effects as well....

[@alexobregonbauluz3304]

or pink floyd in the olden days

[@harryfuzz9114]

@@lookmanostrings feel you... but I dont think they'll go back... Tobias likes epic sounds...there might be a chance that he d step back for one album... but I dont see a huge turnaround there...

[@acefox1]

Glad you mentioned The Who having to play to a backing track on Baba O’Reilly. Daltry & Townshend have always been upfront about it and how terrifying it always was to be locked to the tape once the “Play” button was pushed. And if the machine failed, it failed and they’d have to play through it.

[@scalzmoney]

Fans know about this. I love the Who. The funny thing is to watch them play at something like The Concert For New York after 9/11. The song begins and the tv crew keeps focusing on their touring keyboard player, the amazing Jon Carin who is NOT playing one note. 😂

[@scalzmoney]

@@guyincognito8440 Well, they played other tunes with keyboard parts. And surely it was Carin who triggered the programmed parts as well.

[@mc76]

As I mentioned in another comment, the Moody Blues used a Mellotron extensively in the late 1960s. What is a Mellotron if not a machine that produces backing tracks? There is no way the Moodies could have played any song from Days of Future Passed live without the tape loops of strings that Mike Pindar activated with a keyboard.

[@craiglevy8144]

Won't Get Fooled Again needs to be mentioned as using a backing track alongside Baba. The Who got plenty of grief from critics and fans back then for using the tracks but eventually everyone accepted their use and moved on. It is always best for performers to be upfront about using them rather than pretending they are not when they are.

[@chrisclermont456]

One more comment. Twice I have seen Adele, an artist I love and respect, play a "live" TV broadcast, and clearly the only actual live elements are her lead vocals, maybe background vocals, and the keyboard player whom I believe is the one that starts and stop her sequences. When you see a 20-something looking guitar player miming to a nylon string guitar part with a Stratocaster in his hands, that's when it becomes silly!! Once I auditioned for a big current pop singer and was told upfront I would be miming the entire show which was "canned" including her lead vocals. We were even told we would fake a soundcheck in case a particular venue had an issue with that and wanted to sue for breach of contract. Now that is dishonest, and I don't agree with it at all.

[@silenoz666]

I’m a metalhead, and very used to hear bands play live with backing tracks, specially bands with a lot of symphonic elements in their songs; and by symphonic I mean orchestral parts that would be impossible to play live unless you bring the whole orchestra to perform live with the band. In this case, I’m more than confortable with backing tracks.

[@jrjr.429]

@@christo6765 what an unnecessarily elitist take. You’re sitting hear calling actual professional musicians fake because they use backing tracks for orchestral parts from their album while do all the singing and live instrument playing for the actual instruments they play. Get off your high horse.

[@tidalcliff2202]

@@jrjr.429 there's no getting through to people like that. they are so disconnected from reality, dude probably has protection around his house for 5g radiation

[@napierdalacband]

@UCuuhNlb60gNTX7C5-SOEjVA The fact is one person can't necessarily control a 50+ piece orchestra with a MIDI Keyboard... The music industry is one of the most innovative spaces ever - The use of backing tracks means almost anything is possible musically. Elitism has been a thing in music for hundreds of years yet it's those elitists who die out when they have too much ego to evolve.

[@bernifitzsimmons176]

@@jrjr.429 Uh…. Read his comment he literally said the opposite of that 🤣

[@christo6765]

@@jrjr.429 i retract the expletive i used. im not refering to the artists skill but to the product. Yes, it takes talent, artistry and ingenuity to construct and execute these productions. Can not take away from that. But automation is automation. It is what it is. If thats what you want...

[@jhn1987]

I’ve recently seen a number of live acts using backing tracks. In most cases, it was a solo guitarist doing vocals using a bass and percussion backing track. I saw a duo in which there was a female primary vocalist and a male guitarist also contributing vocals. They sounded like a full band and were using backing tracks containing bass, percussion, guitar, and keyboard. I began to wonder when does this actually become karaoke?

[@DiggitySchwag]

It becomes Karaoke when the performers aren’t performing their own songs. That definition is already clearly outlined. I’m in an original alternative/hip hop duo and we have no intentions or desires to have anybody on stage with us performing the songs that we wrote, recorded, produced, and released. We rely highly on backing tracks because we don’t have or want a band. Very similar to Twenty One Pilots. There’s two guys. What else can we do?

[@l30n.marin3r0]

This is the problem I've had for the longest time. I haven't been able to put a band together because I come across this mentality that: "It's just a hobby for me" Well, not for me dude, I didn't learn to play all the instruments being used in these songs, didn't made all the parts, didn't learn to produce video and audio and edit it and I'm not investing in promoting just for shits and giggles never mind the gear and the time to actually learn how to use it but also...so do I just remove the vocal and guitar track form the recording and perform "live" with it? If I, as a member of an audience walked in to a show where this is being done, I would just walk out...then again, maybe I should just say "Fuck it" and do it like that. @@DiggitySchwag

[@thomascordery7951]

At that point it's already karaoke, though admittedly kicked up a notch.

[@stephenschramm1233]

I remember when MTV launched “Unplugged” which seemed a way to show which bands could actually play.

[@markg975]

Jean-Michel Jarre unplugged would be interesting!

[@llnn5112]

Unplugged was boring as hell.

[@cristinamolinari1816]

Unplugged was Amazing!!

[@liljegren100]

Nirvana Unplugged was awful, but some folks enjoyed it....go figure.

[@rrdream2400]

I remember seeing Van Halen on their first tour and was stunned how close they sounded to their records which of course is because they used to record close to live on most songs.

[@fooschmack]

there's a video of them trying to play "Jump" and the synth part was on a backing track synced to a video track, but the audio was at 44.1K and the video was at 48k, so when they played back the video with the synth audio it was all out of tune and speed with the rest of the band. It's a nice way to cheat when you don't want to pay an extra band member but it clearly can make you look like a joke.

[@treff9226]

Yes, King Edward made being on stage, wailing away on these intricate licks and solos, look like the easiest thing in the world! I firmly believe Eddie could still play every song perfectly, underwater and handcuffed - the man has alien DNA. Much respect to artists who can bring most of what they do in the studio, to the stage, with LIVE playing! RUSH, anyone?

[@edwardprete]

Van Halen was a live band. What you heard is what you got. And Eddie could layer, without anyone helping. He was the best.

[@pmcginni1021]

@@edwardprete used tracks..can clearly hear it on jump

[@79blackbelt]

I remember Van Halen only using keyboard tracks on their later tours, on 5150 and previous tours Eddie played all the keyboard parts live and switched to guitar when he needed to. Michael Anthony even played keys a couple times.

[@tuckerfleming7710]

A friend of mine who is a professional music director for various pop artists in Los Angeles once put his thoughts on backing tracks to me this way: The best way to treat backing tracks is to utilize them as a supplement to the performance if need be. Think of them as another "tool' in your musical toolbox that can enhance the show if used tastefully and correctly. Where alot of artists nowadays go wrong, however, is it becomes a sole crutch that is relied upon that makes or breaks a show. So much so, that alot of modern pop performances have become a "glorified Spotify playlist." The laptop becomes the "soul" of the show so to speak; not the musicianship or live moments built in to truly engage the audience. The goal of crafting a memorable, meaningful live show is to give the audience inside the venue something that someone who hasn't paid for a ticket CAN'T get outside of that venue. If your whole show is essentially a track for track karaoke, with no musical elements built in beyond that, you might as well listen to the record at home and save yourself the money.

[@maxcruz666]

I couldn't have said this better. As a band you should be able to perform / play your music, cover or original period. But you should be able to add parts if you need to but, not to the point where you can't perform if you don't have those parts. If you do need to add parts that are critical.. 1-Let the audience know 2-Make sure that what you are playing on your instrument is live and tell your audience that too. They are not gonna kill you, you just got to be honest with them. Also make your performance 50/50 or 60/40..meaning play as much as possible without tracks, this way your audience can experience both things and maybe not feel left out. It's different if you're a solo musician but, again let your audience know.

[@drumsNstuff79]

@@maxcruz666 Yes! With the ridiculously expensive ticket prices these days, do you really want the mom who waaaaaaay overspent for Taylor tickets to realize her daughters are seeing Taylor live but not hearing her perform live? "I paid a thousand dollars each for them to hear the record?!?" (Not claiming anything, just using as an example. It was New Kids on The Block in my sister's day) And in the nosebleed seats center stage so you really only see 'ant size' Taylor (or is that a backup dancer? Haha.. Which one is her?) You lose so much with today's super "like the record" performances. Back in the '60's the soul revues and r&b acts were famous for the live show that did not sound like the record, but a million times better, a little faster, and with twice as much energy, full band choreography, and a dynamic lead singer like Percy Sledge, Sam and Dave, Wilson Picket, James Brown, King Floyd, the Isley Brothers, The Temptations, the Four Tops, Ike and Tina, Diana Ross and the supremes, Aretha, etc. etc.. That was the times, but where did that vibe go? That in the moment excitement? That "extra' you got for just being there live in person? You really really got your moneys worth. In the 70's it was the extended guitar solos by the guitar greats and full band musicianship, but by the eighties something happened. It wish music would become more live again across the board and not just in the rock genre with certain types of bands.

[@pianodave3]

OMG, I played in a band that used an ESQ-1 and then an Ensoniq SQ-80 back in the eighties! We had a live drummer and he did exactly what you were describing - his right-ear-click-track was a snare drum hitting on every beat. I had no idea how he could tolerate that, but he was an incredible drummer!

[@reezlaw]

Hahaha a snare? That's mad

[@andywason3414]

I saw Queen live a couple of times in the 70's. When they played 'Bohemian Rhapsody', and the operatic bridge came up, the stage lights would go out and the band would walk off stage, making it obvious that they weren't playing, and that a tape player was being used.When the bridge ended, the lights would come on, the band were on stage again, and Brian May would go right into his 'headbangin' solo, obviously live.. It totally worked!

[@donkeydarko77]

That sounds ridiculous.

[@fus149hammer5]

They have always done that. That's the problem with writing songs that are massively overlayed, overdubbed and overproduced. What do you do when you play it live? Well you do what Queen have always done, walk off stage, go for a piss and a cup of tea and let the audience sing it.

[@donkeydarko77]

@@fus149hammer5 Or...you perform the most integral part, and let the audience fill in the rest. You know, what WE paid for.

[@fus149hammer5]

@@donkeydarko77 isn't that what I said?

[@stevecuzz8820]

@@donkeydarko77, no.

[@kurtdiedericks5712]

Nothing wrong with using technology to “augment” or enhance the live performance. Not talking like Milli Vanilli, but actually playing with your tracks. Most music loving (non musician) people don’t care what’s happening on stage as long as it feels and sounds good to them. ❤

[@JWKennemur]

In my mind there is a (maybe not so clear) line between using some tracks as additive parts to fill out an arrangement when they really can’t be reproduced by the members on stage and the song would suffer by not having the parts there versus using tracks as most of the sound coming through front of house. If the musicians are mostly onstage to fill space and dance around but the volumes are turned down, that’s no longer “live” music. The difference between production and deception…

[@daniellovegrove1896]

Yep you nailed it there. Also there’s nothing more lame as a musician waiting for a Fukn robot to finish its section. Very different from awaiting the cue from a performer on the stage

[@musicboy2003]

It really depends on the kind of musical style you’re playing and what you need to replicate your show live. It’s not a crutch, it’s a tool. Auto tune is everywhere on 99% of modern music, but nobody is whining about that. When I saw Queen in 1978, Roger put on big over-the-ears headphones for several tunes, not just Bohemian Rhapsody! This from the band that proudly labeled their album covers with “NO SYNTHESIZERS USED”. Remember that? And that was a band that knew how to play live! They sounded JUST like the record that night and that’s what I came to hear! Even Billy Idol uses a click and Steve Stevens is getting MIDI tempo to automatically set his delays. Lip-syncing lead vocals or a guitar lead, I’m not too keen on. But all the other bits and bobs? It’s fair game nowadays.

[@joerosenfield3092]

Just makes me want to listen to side 3 of Cream's Wheels of Fire album. Three guys playing live. Perfect. Nothing else needed.

[@robertvavra414]

Side 3? EPIC - UNEQUALLED. As great as "Crossroads" was, "Spoonful" was maybe even greater.

[@joerosenfield3092]

@@robertvavra414 I agree. 😊 I was going to cite Spoonful alone, but decided it was easier to just say "side 3".

[@PaulFormentos]

Jack Bruce can surely sing them blues..and that bass

[@vedranbaotic]

I love your take on this, Rick. No hypocrisy, no elitism - and coming from a musician who knows the value of live performance. It just comes down to what kind of live act you want to be, and both scenarios are valid and have their advantages.

[@rrboyd10]

man spot on. it really is about what kind of show you want to present- there is room for a lot of different things in the genre pool

[@Invisible-Rhino]

@@rrboyd10 i fully agree - there's room for everything, but not every performer is comfortable with being seen as a karaoke-like.,.,.,

[@thetruthchannel349]

Good answer. It just depends...

[@rolandknaap3577]

Ian Brown was not mentioned? maybe becausse he is not american. Recently he was heavily criticized for not playing with a band. Also Mac Demarco some time ago. He didnt discuss enough if an artist can only perform alone with a backing track and get away with it. I mean: Celine Dion can get away with it but Ian Brown or Mac Demarco not because it is not expected from them.

[@resurrection89]

​@@rolandknaap3577 Ian Brown singing to a backing track is just bad kareoke IMO. His voice is not good enough to carry a solo performance like that, but Celine Dion / Whitney Houston etc it's all about the voice in the first place, they could probably nail it accapella. For me the main parts of whatever song is being performed should be played live but backing tracks can then enhance that performance. Imagine stellify live with no brass or no Ibrahim guitar solos? Gutting. Especially considering he's not exactly getting paid £150 quid like most pub bands on a weekend gig lol. He can afford a few session players like.

[@kristianborisov5928]

Depeche Mode used to do that throughout most of their career, and also had whole phrases triggered by keys live - there is no other way they could reconstruct their stuff live with so much synths and effects. Still they have incredible shows with a lot of people, and nobody's complaining.

[@crazyralph6386]

The thing is DM, never hid that fact, and fully embraced it. Alan Wilder even gave a tutorial on how they pull it off in their 101 tour movie.

[@RyTrapp0]

@@crazyralph6386 Who said that any of these bands are 'hiding it'? Obviously lip syncing is at the extreme end of the spectrum and we aren't talking about that - but, when Rick says that "the majority are doing it"(standard tracks, not full bore lip syncing), it's not like he's revealing an industry secret. Fans don't know about it because, frankly, that's how well executed it is, not because anyone is going out of their way to 'cover it up'. Most fans probably don't realize that these modern digital effects processors(AxeFX, etc.) have replaced pedal boards. Or that a lot of times the amps/cabs aren't the primary output for the guitars, sometimes they aren't even real amps/cabs. It isn't a 'secret', no one is trying to keep this from you, bands just don't put out PSAs about what equipment they use during their shows.

[@danielgros5947]

DM still use backing tracks, and their shows are still amazing to this day.

[@thediminished98]

The whole "they already did it on the album" is a weak argument. Maybe don't make the album that way. Maybe learn some more harmony tricks that make you sound fuller.

[@RyTrapp0]

@@thediminished98 I will take my Nine Inch Nails exactly how Trent wants to deliver it, thank you very much!

[@vstoppiello]

You hit the nail on the head when you said bands that could really play live. Alot of bands back then made music they could replicate themselves on stage. They enjoyed playing live and being spontaneous

[@uniqdzign2]

As an old school guitar player, starting before and during the Hendrix era, I can't imagine having to play to a rigid set, with specific solo lengths etc. To me music is all about the spontaneity of band members interaction. However, as with so much else, modern technology takes over and allows musicians to do things differently. Perhaps not always better, but I guess without fearing stage failures.

[@Marta1Buck]

With rock and metal bands, the backing track wasn't for masking mistakes. It usually for weird sounds, or orchestra, but mostly weird sounds. Also, as a guitar player, I would enjoy playing my part automated than tap dancing throughout the whole show.

[@dashcamamerica9775]

@@Marta1Buck Pink Floyd is an example of this. Their live shows, as well as David's live shows after Floyd, use tracks that have sound effects (such as Time), but once they are over, the band and David, play to how they feel. I must have 8 or 9 different versions of Time alone, both live and studio. That said, I still prefer to see bands in concert that actually do play their instruments verses just play along. As others have stated, I enjoy the variation of the songs from the album version. If I am going to pay such an exorbitant price for tickets to a show, I should be able to expect the music to be different from the studio version.

[@llnn5112]

I pay to see a concert not a bunch of dorks practicing in front of a crowd.

[@cpsedmonds]

Hey Rick, two new video ideas for you based on this! 1. Top 10 live versions of songs that sound different (and arguably better) to the studio versions. 2. Top 10 live versions of songs that include a backing track. (could be looping, fx, comparison between a performance with/without).

[@zennjimm]

I used to say that every track on Thin Lizzy's Live and Dangerous album sounded better than the original studio albums. Then I found out a huge part of the album was overdubbed! 😀

[@TomGrubbe]

Great idea. I can can think of AC/DC's Thunderstruck from the 1991 Donington show (no backing tracks needed here).

[@NVRAMboi]

Music and the industry have changed so much since the "true live" days, this "issue" doesn't even register on my richter scale. I will say that knowledge of these kinds of things makes me appreciate bands that do "true live" well even more. I recall the first time I saw KANSAS live (1974? Masque tour) I was completely blown away given the complexities of their tunes. In short, it was apparent that dudes could play and had chops.

[@kipknee]

I wouldn't say the industry has changed so much as the standard has been lowered.

[@JustinLesamiz]

@@kipknee Yup, and the advancement of technology has enabled that lowering of standards.

[@dpb22]

@@kipknee - I would argue the opposite. Go watch Aerosmith's Texxas Jam '78 where Steven Tyler was a complete wasted mess. Not only did they play this show and get away with it, but they recorded and released that embarrassment. It's insane. That show would NEVER be acceptable today and would possibly end their career.

[@ronleik1648]

I happen to look at Kansas' Masque album cover last night, by coincidence, and it came out in 1975 if that helps you with your memory timeline. Things get fuzzy over the years, ha!

[@kipknee]

@@dpb22 OTOH, listen to Frampton Comes Alive, ABB - Live at Fillmore East, Deep Purple - Made in Japan, Little Feat - Waiting for Columbus, David Bowie - Live, Paul Simon - Live in Central Park, etc., etc.

[@Tanmag11]

James Taylor would play on SNL in the 70s, where they would show a reel to reel tape player in the background playing a second guitar part.

[@christheother9088]

I saw a JT concert where he put the reel tape player in a chair and put it right out front center. He introduced it before starting the song.

[@Xuritron]

Got to see a two piece band in high school, they were a drummer and a guitarist. Guitarist was controlling every other track from his laptop. They had a tower of pc monitors in front of the stage where they were playing the video of the female singer singing her part. They were performing so well and playing their parts amazing, blending every other track so smooth, a lot of rehearsal for sure. I do not mind at all when the performance is extremely creative like that.

[@OmegaProxy]

I don’t mind backing tracks while playing live as long as it’s not a mime show like the Ashlee Simpson debacle. I remember thinking “Why would you completely fake the entire track of a basic four chord pop song live?” The way she danced off stage always gives me a chuckle.

[@bigjayrillah3508]

The reason is she is not that talented

[@WizardOfOss]

@@bigjayrillah3508 I guess her sister was the talented one 😂

[@mmaviator22]

That goes back to the 60s where tv show performances were for the most part taped. I remember a funny video during a Mamas and the Papas performance, Michelle Phillips was pissed that they wouldnt let them sing and play for real so during the performance she started eating a banana lol.

[@brinsonharris9816]

@@mmaviator22 There’s a TV “performance” by The Lovin’ Spoonful where the bass player plays a broom, and who could forget George on the punching bag and Ringo on the exercise bike in I Feel Fine while Paul and John dutifully mime singing and playing. They had fun with it being fake. Very rock n’ roll, and I’m sure the suits in the control booth weren’t happy about it.

[@Xul]

True, but even in metal I get quite annoyed of very synth-heavy bands basically letting half of their music run from tape (granted ... I'm a keyboarder) . When I watched Rivers of Nihil on a festival, for example, I left after a few songs because it was just too dumb to watch a band that gets most of their character from such atmospheric parts (synths or even saxophone playing) playing everything from backing tracks ... Similarly with female vocalists: If you have several songs with female backing vocals, find a damn singer and don't let it run from tape or try at least to sing high parts by youself. In contrast I really appreciate the big effort of some bands to play as much as possible by themselves (for example Soen with the 2nd guitar player doing synths and backing vocals).

[@dennisgabriel9641]

I prefer a straight live show where the players on stage perform the sounds we hear. I understand that backing tracks make it sound more the like the recordings, but I like when the live version is different from the recording. I like to see how a band is going to pull it off.

[@panurge987]

Beginning in the 80s, Rush used triggered samples and pre-recorded harmony vocals to make their live performances sound just like the album version. But most people were okay with it because Geddy still sang the lead vocal live, and all three musicians were always playing the main parts live.

[@GordonWaltersBass]

I also want to see how a live band adapts their studio tunes to a live setting. That's part of what I'm paying for. It's interesting to see the unique arrangements.

[@mikepriestey2547]

They're not going to have orchestras, full choires and 20 other people playing multiple keyboards and decks for a live show ..

[@BradsGonnaPlay]

@@mikepriestey2547 don’t bother explaining that. They think they want the live experience and don’t even know what that means.

[@mikepriestey2547]

@@BradsGonnaPlay It's the same as when people say "Good bands make it work in any situation!!". FIR are literally a rap/rock/electronic hybrid, without certain tracks it's impossible to make it work unless the quality of the show drops significantly and I'm sure all bands would prefer to put on the best show they can rather than half arse things. People are clueless

[@BradsGonnaPlay]

@@mikepriestey2547 let them be, we don’t need to save the world 😂 we know what we know and they know what they think they know.

[@BradsGonnaPlay]

@@mikepriestey2547 but also 100% Could you imagine going to a Kendrick Lamar show and going “THIS ISNT LIVE MUSIC” when he’s a rapper who uses tons of effects in his tracks. He even shows The Who using tracks live and they make mental gymnastics to say “no it’s not like they do today”

[@lorenzomarzocchi3390]

Blonde Redhead have been doing it for twenty years, and those are great live shows. As long as all the members are still playing their instruments/singing, there's nothing wrong with backing tracks, even if a relevant part of the song is pre-recorded. I see it as a way to be as faithful as possible to the record/composition without hiring extra musicians: In a way, it's more DIY than hiring other musicians I would say.

[@sonictemple2925]

I have to say for me it depends on what is being done with backing tracks. Personally I love hearing bands do a live version of a song instead of backing tracks. It makes me love bands like Russian Circles even more with how amazing they are at looping during the song and doing it all on stage. It’s amazing to see.

[@wjatube]

Session guitarist here. I can tell inmediately the type of musician I am playing with from their ability to improv a song "clean" vs with tracks. There are some guitarists that are "naked and afraid" w'o MIDI/etc and others that are musically gifted who can play raw. This is a great video. Would love to see a video about how "live" albums are largely produced (over-dubbed) in studio-post show. They're not exactly "live" and we can trace this back to the legendary release of KISS ALIVE back in the 70's. Yes, technology has been essential for over 50 years.

[@metalpuppet5798]

Playing with and without tracks are two different skill sets. And yes playing with track is absolutely still a skill and not an easy one to master because you will have to play very precisely to a click which most people who play without tracks could not do

[@robertthurman9866]

As other have commented, it can add to the performance. Nightwish uses backing tracks on almost all of their songs. Yet they are so much better live than on the studio albums.

[@frankiew8532]

Trouble with backing tracks is that songs can't progress. Even today there is somewhat of a time factor on songs that make it onto commercial playlists, concerts gave the bands a chance to take their 3-4 minute hits and turn them into epic 7-10 minute songs. With backing tracks, we lose the "jamming" factor.

[@Daytripper51]

Saw Vince Gill on tour this summer....Beautiful LIVE music...all components were LIVE....Talent!!

[@PrototheDodo]

There are some bands that DO need backing tracks/did need backing tracks. A band like They Might Be Giants definitely needed them! Same did The Flaming Lips for a period.

[@1shadycat]

I feel like I've lived this video - the whole evolution from 100% live to ~80% backing tracks. I even remember switching to Mini Disc because portable CD players would skip if we had too many people on stage! I had never imagined using backing tracks until a keyboard player pulled out of the most prestigious and high paying gig I had booked at that point in my career. I had 30 days to sequence all of his parts... and then the laptop failed at the gig. Ugghhh. That's why I bounced everything to CD and then to Mini Disc. This was all in the early 2000s. Then, I got clean for a number of years At the end of 2014, I began reverse engineering a lot of songs, bouncing stems in Pro Tools, importing them to Ableton Live, and manually cueing a light show that would perfectly synchronize with the stems while I provided live guitar and lead vocal for a very elaborate solo act. This was an insanely tedious process, so I can appreciate the effort made by acts that supplement their live parts with backing tracks, especially when this also cues the lights, switches guitar patches, automates effects, etc. It's SO much easier to hop on stage with some great players and simply make music :-) And I get the economics of touring with a smaller ensemble and supplementing with backing tracks. The only time it has ticked me off was when I suspected the lead vocal was pre-recorded, or when there was a very prominent instrument in the mix that was not represented on stage. That's my two cents worth ;-) Nice video, Rick!

[@dvs6121]

Reminds why I like jazz so much. Every performance is an interaction between the artists. It's inherently part of the genre.

[@bradhouse4754]

Jazz can be very captivating, which is why it's mind-blowing to think it was originally called "jass," with the 'j' added to camouflage the fact that it was being referred to as "ass" music. I think jazz and bluegrass are probably safe from being taken over by backing tracks, but weirder things have happened.

[@chrisd6736]

I would argue that whenever a backing track is used during a live jazz performance, it stops being jazz. Improvisation is key.

[@OdaKa]

@@bradhouse4754 I thought it was stood for orjassm music

[@bradhouse4754]

@@OdaKa You may be right. I guess I need to watch the Ken Burns documentary again and pay attention to whether or not the origin of the name is discussed. I don't remember.

[@OdaKa]

@@bradhouse4754 Reports vary... I've also heard it was code for the word you get when you replace the A with an i 👀

[@RohannvanRensburg]

Opeth still does pure live shows which is cool. They have intricate records but most of the extra stuff gets interpreted by their keyboard player and it works just fine

[@skibitzky]

Elton said that Long John Baldry and Bluesology used a Revox tape machine for backing tracks when they played ‘Let The Heartaches Begin’ way back in 1967. He called the experience ‘excruciating.’

[@themuffinman3135]

What Frank Zappa said about his shows " You will hear real musicians, playing real music in real time." That's what I want when I go to a concert. Say what you want but I feel this makes for a better experience.

[@SM-bm6jo]

Reminded me of what Phil Collins said, "Some of what you hear tonight will be intended." referring to the poor condition of his voice.

[@bannedtwice7767]

@@anthonyman8008 What?!?!

[@mjemigh3304]

Okay, I admit that I'm an old guy and may have old guy thinking, but I always went to live shows to hear live music. I could have stayed home and played the records for less money.

[@PSchmidtc]

Then go back 50 years back in time just to find out that, even then they were already using it. Go miss, literally, all the magic, all the process of developing new technologies that DO make Music sound sonically BETTER.

[@AlbertWeijers]

Great point! Listen to Maggie Rogers live and Brandi Carlile live, no backing tracks. Great sound, authentic music. They have SNL performances too.

[@VickenIshkhanian]

My favorite bands such as Nightwish, Epica, Within Temptation use backing tracks all the time, there is no way ever they can perform live if the choir and 60 piece orchestra sound is not present, but the band use real amps on the stage. Just as it is art to play a musical instrument it is also a form of art and skill to operate a backing track to produce a live show that is captivating

[@cletusbeauregard1972]

Emmpu Vuorinen went Kemper for the last two tours, mainly because any savings in weight when shipping gear helps.

[@biglew1161]

was gonna say almost the same thing, there is no way any of there songs would sound as full without backing tracks, the bands are still playing live. if they were using tracks as a crutch then I'd have a problem with it.

[@geohambass]

Was going to make a similar comment myself! Nightwish have the London Philharmonic Orchestra on their recordings, and via backing tracks live. I don't imagine they'd be able to play many gigs if they played with a live orchestra.

[@TerranigmaQuintet]

@@geohambass It also would have to be a big orchestra, and capable enough to reproduce the original sound produced by the LPO, which would get very complex logistically, and costly, and they would most certainly not be able to tour the US or other non European countries, where they are not as popular, and perform in small clubs, that barely fit their band let alone an orchestra.

[@davidfoster2338]

I made track outs and backing tracks for everyone I ever recorded. 99% of the time it was requested by the artist for gigs that might be in small venues that can't fit a full band or for solo performances. I had no problem doing it for them knowing what it would be used for. Bands and musicians should be using anything that will help them provide the audience with a great experience.

[@jstixx]

YESSSSSSS

[@ronniboi312]

couldn't agree more with that sentiment

[@martymiller9514]

...and without a doubt, superficial.

[@ianmclean5541]

I love your work David. Fellow Canadian musician here. Nice to have you weigh in. I’ve made backing tracks for our band occasionally. It’s definitely easier playing without them though. Easy to screw it up!

[@nunnayabiz7911]

Not THE David Foster...

[@johnelwen4435]

In 1979 I went to see Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark. At that they were two players and Winston their reel to reel tape player. Playing to a backing track is also a sign of good musicianship. You have to be precise.

[@umdesch4]

Then you have U2. The stories about their use of backing tracks and sequencing are fascinating. There'd be communication between the band members on what they'd want to do any given night. Edge would have loop controllers at his feet, and if the band decided they wanted to extend a middle 8 into a "middle 32" or something, he'd have the control to trigger that, and their techies working in the trenches would figure these things out on the fly, so the lighting and the visuals would continue to sync up. It was brilliant, and they'd spend days of practice figuring out what options they had, and how they could make any kind of improvisation work, while still making full use of their backing material, and sequencing. It boggles the mind...

[@d.a.thorndike8772]

Horrible. I am positive they never did this pre- Achtung Baby when they were at their best

[@Hamboarding]

They are rich 😉 12:02

[@KarlRock]

The only thing that bothers me is when singers over use backing tracks. That’s when I notice it. I’ve heard some bands play every single song to a click, that mustn’t be very fun?

[@ShapeShifterPB]

That's extremely common in every single genre now. Probably almost every band you've seen live used a click, it was just a mapped out at a different BPM than the album. Nothing wrong with that. It help the people on stage keep time, and it's hard to hear up their, especially if youre a drummer.

[@erickborling1302]

Playing in tempo (with a metronome, etc) is part of life for any decent musician. Playing with a band/drummer that can't keep steady time sucks; so playing with a click track is not even a necessary evil - it's a good thing. I never met anyone who finds it a chore unless it's hard to hear the click.

[@drummerman31]

Playing to tracks and clicks totally stinks. It makes everything stiff and stale and robotic. It actually hinders the musicians from being able to truly play together and develop real chemistry.

[@ShapeShifterPB]

@@drummerman31 I strongly disagree. But to each his/her own. You do realize bands like rush and TOOL use tracks and clicks, and they're some of the best bands live.

[@ryancecil]

playing in time is fun... playing out of time feels bad so, yeah playing with a click is cool

[@chrisd6736]

I’m old enough to remember the Milli Vanilli thing and that was frigging crazy. I believe people think very differently about using vocal tracks than instrumental tracks simply meant to “fill out” the sound. My take is: The main thing you are hearing needs to be played live.

[@Liece45]

Yes, as most of the discussions nowadays, this one got way out of the point. Things need to be played live... i dont think this whole issue were ignited cause of backing tracks of stuff like choir, orchestration or anything like it... You cant compare things like a intro to a song, or the opera stuff on "bohemian rhapsody" to a full on playback... thats just a non sense comparison. Some of the newest bands have their live songs almost 100% equal to the studio version, singers are just flawless... I think theres a HUGE difference between using backing tracks and going border line mimicking songs.

[@chrisd6736]

@@Liece45 agreed. Sometimes it’s hard to know where to draw the line. Especially with so much of the sound being electronically produced these days.

[@ccampau]

The big difference with them was they didn't even record the backing tracks.

[@chrisd6736]

@@ccampau ya I know different situation for sure. That was like the ultimate lip syncing debacle.

[@goldstandardmasters]

Rick is right as usual! Not every band can afford extra musicians on tour and the audience expects a full rich sound when coming to a concert. They don't care how that's achieved as long as the band is playing the main parts and in the groove, always remember the audience is king!

[@davekimball3610]

Can't say I care if a band uses backing tracks or not, but can say I care when a band feels they can't perform without it.

[@josemorales5117]

They probably can but it will sound kind of raw.... Like a demo tape of a garage band

[@andyfab65]

@@josemorales5117 that’s what I’d want to hear. If I wanted to hear the recording, could listen to that on my phone.

[@mc76]

@@andyfab65 For a lot less money!

[@jimk4267]

you nailed it

[@judenihal]

@@josemorales5117 you nailed it. also i want to add to this that most pieces of music do not sound good at all if they are raw, they will always sound better with the same instruments used on the record. i dont want to hear a raw performance which sounds nothing like the record. very boring

[@gringochucha]

One thing is using backing tracks. Another is to not be able to play without them.

[@jts3339]

And feeling that you no longer need to play live because a backing track is easier than music lessons and the 10,000 hours of practice required to be a professional.

[@fromulus]

In the case of Radke, it seems more that it was an issue of quality for the paying audience. Luke Holland is their touring drummer currently, I'm pretty sure they could swing it without the laptops, ya know if they had a gun to their heads. It was a consideration for the ticket buyers to give them the show they actually paid for.

[@synep138]

Sure, but something like Baba O'Riley performed without any keyboard parts would be incredibly boring.

[@MultiMidden]

@@jts3339 what I've heard is that playing to a click is actually difficult for most musicians, it leaves little room for error.

[@worlandow]

Exactly

[@anitaschvitz9749]

As long as everyone is doing their thing live, singer is singing, drummer is drumming, Guitarists are guitaring and bassist is bassing, I'm good. But no pretending. Imagine AC/DC back in the day pretend playing or saying sorry guys we can't play, we don't have our tracks.

[@worstcaseofcrabsever5510]

Excactly.

[@DaniSalat]

guitarists do be guitaring

[@cango5679]

Or going "off script" like Purple, Rainbow (Dio) and Sabbath (Dio) often did

[@mikosoft]

I've done live sound for a band that brought in their sampler with tracks but they didn't have the right power cable. The venue was not able to get the cable in time either so the guys said, don't worry, we can make it without tracks. And they sounded great!

[@BDarOZ]

Hm, AC/DC have a lot of backing vocals on songs from certain eras, im not sure they are really coming out of brian Johnson and the bass player. Also they have special effects in synch with the music, so they are most likely playing to a click track. So, while they do have spares for everything, i dont think they would perform if all their lap tops died.

[@LockjawOfficial]

Great commentary on it and I totally agree 100%. The only time I think backing tracks are a huge thumbs down is when the lead vocals are on them. Like you said.

[@BosseCory]

We do have to consider what we're actually asking here. Because "cheating" implies that music is some sort of competition that you win or lose at. What I think people are concerned about is whether a performance is "genuine", and how much we should value genuineness and weigh it against the value of entertainment. I played in a prog metal band for years, and we loved including all the little embellishments from our album into our set. These swells and sub-drops and sound effects helped carry the compositions forward, and bringing them to the stage felt like it added to the entertainment value. Simple as that. And it didn't make things easier, so I definitely wouldn't describe it as cheating. In fact, it made everything harder. Here we were doing wacky time signatures and you could not afford to miss a single beat, or all the sounds and lights would be out of sync. And it didn't make things too rigid, as we could still spontaneously make changes to parts or improvise within the structure of the track (as long as we kept the same time). If our laptops had been stolen, could we have played our shows without them? Absolutely. But we were a small band, with a small following, and the stakes were low. We didn't have a brand or a reputation to consider. When a big band who has set the bar for what their live shows will be like suddenly can't meet that level of entertainment value, they have to weigh the disappointment of fans who lost out on a show to the disappointment of fans who got a less impressive one (when they paid for something else). I can't blame them for calling it off.

[@sp0ngeb00b7]

A bit late but this point is so obvious I can't believe no one's really taking it into consideration... Many fans would've paid the same amount for a ticket, to half the amount of the show. Lightshow, graphics and intros, ON TOP of backing tracks, sometimes pyro, in ear queues etc. etc.... Yes a band should be able to play without these things, and I have no doubt FIR could. But it wouldn't have been an honest price for the product they would've delivered. PLUS modern consumers are way more focussed on the artists' ability to replicate the sound and vocals of albums directly to the sound of the album, which alot of older musos and music fans commenting are also missing in their discussions. It may not be something they value, but it's a big factor to consider nowadays. FIR is a band that doesn't need any more knocks to their reputation than they already have with Ronnie being such a dick, so they probably thought it was the safest option, needless to say...

[@stevehepburn5094]

Hey Cory, that was really well said. The idea of the size of following a band has and the fallout of not producing what is expected from them in a performance is spot on. And really, if the band made the backing tracks themselves what's the big deal? We all know there are dozens of takes to get it exactly right when recording, so how do people expect a band to get it exact every time live? Rush used all sorts of sequencers and tracks that were triggered often by Neil because their sound was way too full to be replicated by the three of them live. Keeping everything timed right and synced up was a huge task, and I dare anyone to challenge them to have been "cheating" or "not capable".

[@BramBergs]

This. And it's very easy for live videos as well. Editors would be very happy to just place consistent video on consistent album music, without the hassle of working around inconsistent drummers / other musicians.

[@grantswift]

"Cheating" is also a term we use when someone is unfaithful in a relationship. Or when someone "cheats" you out of something that is rightfully yours. If your audience expects to see live musicians playing live music and you show up with backing tracks, sure that can feel like cheating. But if your audience expects a sound like what they heard on the album and you show up minus 50% of your sonic material, that also could feel like "cheating."

[@thetruthchannel349]

Thats what made Queen such a force to be reckoned with. They understood the point in making a record is vastly different to the point of doing a live show. Just like they understood the studio environment was its own thing and the Live environment its own thing. When you can re-shape the complexity of a studio recording that exists to uphold a standard that you hope will live on for a long time into a live show that amounts to a speck of dust in time where the point is to impact and interact with an audience and you can make it work thats when you know you're a viable act. There was a band called Rooney that was very good live. They were able to reproduce 98% of what they had done in the studio. Only thing was you could have just placed their CD. Thats what it FELT like. While they were excellent live their impact on their live audience was minimal. Very nice guys. Talented group but they didn't transition well from the control room to the stage.

[@TheDilligan]

LOVE that you just posted this because I just started using backing tracks about a week ago. I am a smalltime, nobody musician who recorded a whole album in a home studio during covid lockdown. It's all guitar instrumentals with a full band of instruments I recorded and/or programmed and now I'm trying to go out and perform these live at open-mics. But I can't do it with just one guitar. I don't have a band. The compositions have too many changes for a looper. So about a week ago, I took the plunge and made myself some backing tracks. I've always been against the idea. But so far it has been working out really well. People hear my music the way it's meant to be heard. I still improvise a lot of the guitar so my live performance is still different every time. And I'm getting a really positive response from audiences. But I think you make a good point about mono vs stereo and I didn't think about that. I'm going to go back and make my backing tracks mono - because I also can't guarantee house PA systems will always support stereo.

[@AndrewKangas]

Good job and good luck!

[@dennisvanopstal7360]

How do you perform the backingtracks? When you use software dont convert your backingtracks to Mono. Just add a plugin to sum stereo to mono. That way you can always adapt to the PA system.

[@TheDilligan]

@@dennisvanopstal7360 So far I've been playing them through a PA from my phone over bluetooth.

[@dennisvanopstal7360]

@@TheDilligan fair enough Its a start and gotta start somewhere Might want to check it out for the future.

[@danielcarlheister680]

Hey Rick, love your channel. I just wanted to pipe in. I play in a band with drums bass and me. I play multiple instruments (keys, guitars, horns, vocals etc.). We decided to start using tracks to fill out our sound. I have produced music for decades and am able to pre-program our tracks to help with the sound. It works great. I am old school. I like live musicians but at the end of the day it comes down to getting the job done. Once everything is set (programmed) the show is ready anytime with minimal setup. It sounds amazing but maintains performance value if done correctly. We try to maintain a backup system in case computers break down. We also have sets we can play with just the 3 of us in case the tech completely fails. My rule of thumb using tracks is to only use them to enhance what you do live. We don't use instrumental solo tracks or lead vocal. Most people have no clue what we are doing to create the sound. They just know if they like it or not. I appreciate what you said in this video. Again, love your content.

[@HIjiRR]

I grew up listening to Depeche Mode, who were always open about using backing tracks. They used to put the tape player on the stage (early 80s) and eventually just moved it off stage for logistical reasons.

[@RebeccaTurner-ny1xx]

Lots of early 80s synth bands had an open reel deck on stage. OMD was another; they were (and are) really limited musicians and could never get anywhere close to their records live.

[@RudyAdrian]

Many open reel players were actually there as echo machines (eg: Tangerine Dream and Klaus Schulze)

[@JohnShreve-hw8zm]

…and thats cool cause you know what youre paying for when you go

[@spellerlittlewing]

100% correct they even use DAT

[@jasonvagner]

A couple of years ago Blue October came through Reno. I've seen them many times, and on that night, they decided to do something different: slow, acoustic versions of their whole set. Gave the drummer the night off. And it was awesome. So, kudos to bands who can.. or want to.. go analogue/basic.

[@patrickmckibben1932]

I will say this to anyone who hasn’t played with backing tracks that thinks it’s some kind of a cop-out that helps you cheat you have no idea how tough it actually is. You will learn quickly how unaware you are of your songs’ phrasing at times. You’ll realize that you accidentally throw in extra bars at the bridge from time to time. You’ll realize that the lead singer jumps into the verse too soon or is late from time to time. And the worst part of it is that it doesn’t matter how prepared you are because if your bandmate messes up YOU ALL mess up! With backing tracks you are always one beat away from it turning into a train wreck. It becomes paramount that you can give the same performance every night. And I’m not arguing for or against it. It’s just a different type of performance. It’s really cool to be able to offer the most pristine performance every night thru backing tracks. And when you’ve done it a lot it becomes so freeing when you finally play as a band without them. Tracked Live and Free Form Live. It’s just two different things.

[@neilhennig3900]

True that. When we recorded our first album, we used backing tracks for live performance simply because as upstarts we just couldn't afford to gig with the 3 female backing vocalists and 3 piece horn section that are on some tunes on the album. As we weren't using in ears, we depended on the drummer (who had a headset) to follow the click to the letter. Ultimately, I prefer playing all live, because it gives the music room to breath, and allows for more improv on stage. That said, anybody who thinks playing to tracks is "easy" or "lazy" has clearly never done it. Tracks are a harsh task master.......

[@BST-lm4po]

So basically live concerts have become nothing more than glorified Karaoke performances! Look at the Southern Rock bands from the 70's ! Their live concerts were better than their studio music,.... because they were all extremely talented musicians!

[@dougferrell7047]

Live is better than canned any day. There's no human soul left if it's all click-driven pre-programmed stuff.

[@postava6150]

@Chuck Hanson Totally agree.

[@ricknash3055]

A performance from one night in one city looks no different than from a different night and city half way around the world. Only when the matrix glitches does the band stop.

[@LukeTaylorOfficial]

Your very last sentence is the key here Rick. “It doesn’t matter as long as they do it well”. If they’re still playing and singing live, that’s all the human feel an audience needs. The rest is merely an enhancement to the performance. If you suck at your playing and singing though (and don’t know how to lock into your tracks), THAT’S when it can sound lame and like karaoke. Great channel and content as always. Take care.