Ridiculously strong Tier 3 rush! Beyond All Reason Build Guide

[@samuelpernusch7702]

This format is way better than just watching your silently play the game. As exiting as BAR is standing alone, you giving your opinion on certain aspects of the game is the best part about the videos.

[@FlavarOlonar]

I agree.

[@isamusherman5731]

Definitely like the post commentary more than the live gameplay.

[@EugeneParallax]

Very good and informative format. It is especially good to demonstrate some strategic depths of BAR, because not a lot of players understand how many options and solutions there are to pick from. I have literally had players harassing me for starting Air Factory just 3 minutes before I flattened four of our opponent's economies in a row.

[@Etruscots]

I did not expect the amount of chaos those tier 3 units could create when properly micro, the game went from fairly stable lanes and "borders" to pandemonium after they made a breakthrough.

[@zacharyyoder9498]

Love this format! I love how easy it is to watch and analyze top players' builds in this game. It's even easier when you do it for me!

[@00110000]

I like this style of video. Usually the 8v8 games are too chaotic for me to grok, but just following your build and perspective with commentary is very clean.

[@joshuagray6061]

So glad this game is getting traction. Grew up on TA. I really love that there is a win condition that is actually often met, and the skirmishes to push the line are just so good.

[@ArawnOfAnnwn]

Zero-K is another TA successor that's also available for free on Steam, and Sanctuary is an upcoming nextgen successor that should come out later this year or next year.

[@StarbucksCoffey5280]

Love the format, and it seemed like you were a little nervous. Dont forget to have fun with it. The city skylines jokes were great.

[@apcfire]

I like both watching you play and I think it's also great you commentating over your gameplay. It's nice seeing both.

[@ghiblet]

just keep in mind this was an extremely ideal situation where his front line wasn't collapsing, the enemy had no air support and didn't in any way threaten his team's back line.

[@thomaskositzki9424]

00:50 PENGUIN SPOTTED!!! Penguins are the bestest animals. 🥰🐧 15:20 Whyyy??? Don't switch it off, is hilarious! 😄 Top gameplay, top music, btw. Subscribed. 🙂🤘

[@Sulamanjansulttaani]

Also loving post commentary videos! They educate me the most and always draw me to watch the whole video

[@coenvanpoelje5498]

Love the format, this is exactly what im most interested in. Tips and tricks / mind processes of better players with a good dose of silliness :D

[@NicholasW943]

I liked the idea of getting an air plant solely for the con and a transport for engi turrets. I was thinking it was bad because it's so much metal to commit, but if you just reclaim it after those 2 units are out then all it costs is some BP and energy, which isn't that much for a t1 air plant. t1 air cons feel soooo much better to build with than any other con just because they don't spend half their time getting out of their own way to set down the blueprint.

[@ToolNumber19]

This is such a helpful guide, honestly. All the details sprinkled in about how you time your opening and why, and constructor turret saturation, or the bit about where the interface shows energy converter usage are incredibly helpful. This game has a lot going on, and it's hard to know these details without either having someone say it, or doing a bunch of math.

[@ledgeexe1935]

I like the idea of commenting on replay a lot. You can tell everything you were thinking about during game and other interesting stuff beyond(heh) that.

[@lucasamin9405]

Thank you for the video Winter! Fun strategy

[@lorddragontree]

I like this variant. Thanks for years of entertainment!

[@johannes8131]

a really simple thing to improve your early macro - focus on building one thing at a time. If you build a t1 geo, build it fast before you self-d your comm or start the t2 lab. Then when you're making t2 mexes, build one at a time with all your buildpower to get them online faster. Only reclaim basic solars when you're actually stalling m or close to, and then reclaim them fast with all your nanos together. You also leave a lot of those basic solars unreclaimed while youre stalling hard building the gantry and marauders. On such a metal rich spot, with 4 mexes some of which are even +3.0m, it might not even be useful to blow your commander to afford t2, you could afford it without that and make use of the comm's buildpower and resource generation for longer, you can still do it later get that 2k m later to finance your fusion or gantry, when you've got more nanos and buildpower isn't as scarce anymore.

[@tehpyono2203]

Can you explain what the end graph shows for player stats. I see MC/m MP/m and all these but I have no idea what those mean. Was wondering if I can use those to gauge where to improve.

[@evadnelt]

MC is Mouse Click, MP is Mouse Pixels travelled

[@neokoga]

I enjoy both formats to these BAR videos

[@RaikoH6644]

Very good video, showing how this game is next level is a great idea. Thx

[@danieltimmers7212]

As a new player that has been playing front-line Cortex exclusively, I have never made T3 units. I wonder if there is a build variant for Cortex that is as devastating. This build looks like so much fun! Thank you for the fresh and exciting content. Keep it coming!

[@niacyn2548]

kagernaths push, if early enough cant be stopped

[@ThePalatineHill]

i kinda wish to see the evolution of these plays as there has to be a good counter to it as players get better and more adjusted to builds like this, would definitely be more interesting to see a strat like this be stopped but still provide a significant advantage to a team as they go into the late game stalemate slugfest with titans and jugs. nice to see other units being used too, i noticed how there is like 40 units per faction but generally only saw like 5 being utilized in any game

[@daviddobarganes9115]

Yeah some factions just have an entire tier or building of units that just dont have any realistic use

[@darkranger116]

Marauders are CRAZY strong. Even when you're up against Cortex monsters, so what? You can ignore them, run around and destroy the enemy base and let their chonk-walkers run into your gattling plasma cannons. Or even still, fight them head on, and use their stupid fast speed to micro each marauder back into some butlers and you'll hardly ever lose one besides from enemy sniper fire. They have AA. They have enough health to take at least 2-3 hits before needing repairs vs tier 3 shots. They're stupid cheap to be replaced even if you lose half of them. As a Mad-Cat mechwarrior pilot of 25 years, this is the best unit in the game, lol

[@whoeveknowz]

Love this format, get lots more out of it. Great work

[@luka188]

That was really awesome!

[@MegaJensen25x]

cool guide! loving the game and I'm stoked that you're doing content for it!

[@the1Blind]

It's a good format and as you said, it get much more infos across.

[@TheLingWhisperer]

I know you said you prefer team maps with lane-based layouts rather than back line positions, but I like maps with naval or back line positions because they emphasize proper scouting and increase the strategic complexities of the situation. When every single player has to make units to survive and keep from getting pushed, that obviously slows down tech and econ and makes things like nuke rushes, 10 minute bomber assassinations and early t2 or t3 timings less feasible. But it also means you loosely know from the start what the other players are doing, it will be "standard" play and it is going to be predictable, and unless some people are inexperienced or make critical mistakes, it's how you end up with gargantuan 1.5 hour long games that bog down your CPU. In this game not a single opponent got vision on your base. They even had an air player with a fighter patrol, but not a single person did a scout sweep of your side of the map. They had T2 and they could have countered your marauders with things like Starlight tanks, Banishers, and Snipers just like you said. The blue laser t2 defenses are great at dealing with t3s too, although you may need more than one covering critical approaches with radar coverage and radar targeting. But no one even put forth a serious effort trying to find out what your team's back line was doing. Whenever you notice an opponent on the enemy team isn't making units, you NEED TO FIND OUT WHAT THEY'RE DOING. This becomes doubly important whenever an enemy sacrifices a com in the early game. Don't just assume they're an idiot, they could be snowballing absurd econ and rushing nukes, massing huge wings of bombers, or rushing t2/t3. It's really the air player's job to find that out, because very few players build enough AA to completely deny scouting and it's way harder to scout comprehensively with land units. It's completely valid to build 30 air scouts and sweep the whole map at 10 minutes, and that's way better than massing fighters "in case" they go air, too. It's probably easier and better to scout at 5-6 minutes with just a handful of scouts because it's less likely an enemy on the team will have fighter screens, but if they do, you can accomplish the same thing by sacrificing your own fighters to dogfight on top of their bases. Vision is vision. Back in the Spring/TA days there was a huge flat featureless grass map that had no metal spots but good wind. The only econ was wind farms/metal makers. It made for big, slow paced, epic games and any substantial damage to the enemy energy production was generally critically decisive.. I would play air and sweep the whole enemy base line and I'd mark every wind farm and factory and any large valuable targets. Back then fighters could actually do a little damage to ground, so I'd scout with a hundred or two hundred fighters and snipe a com or a fusion with them while I was at it. It might sound OP, but every once in a while I'd conga line my whole fighter swarm into a flak turret and accomplish little, so I'd just take my constructor swarm and slap down some t1 factories with nanos and start spamming out units near the front line. That was almost 20 years ago now. Good times.

[@johnbaker7322]

The one down vote was probably from red since he was the first unlucky customer. That or the spectator that got muted. Also, TY Winter for not playing COH music this time at least. Hearing WW2 game music while watching mech opera was pain.

[@theknightowl1040]

Can’t get enough of your BAR content, thanks again

[@MegaDreamslayer]

i like this format more as a youtube watcher. love yas winter keep it up

[@dukecunning7046]

Thanks Winter. Appreciate this video.

[@Youwanttodream]

I like this format !

[@LefteyeL]

Great format, these break downs help us noobs

[@nolan_8]

Oh no, I had a feeling you'd upload this one because of how fast the T3 came and messed our team up XD

[@vardito10]

both video types are good, I hope winter keeps making them!

[@matttttttttttttttttttttttttttt]

You should try the experimental hover tanks for the memes. I think they're similar cost to marauder.

[@RyanRicardo-nw7fe]

Very nice format of video

[@TurdleShell]

i like both these kinda commentary videos and the silent sweaty vods. on the vods i can try and piece together what you're thinking by myself which kinda helps train my intuition

[@sean-michaelconroy7686]

I'm here for the 'second helping' as winter calls it

[@godmodegaming5157]

the feeling of breaking through the line into enemy eco is so damn good

[@andydataguy]

Great video!

[@kevinlee753]

4:35 I dont think that was a joke, because it actually works, we all see him using 3 unit successfully handle a line with triple the enemy count, it works. The question is will it always work, answer is no, but it did works in that game. I think once we familiar with a specific build, the different between players in just going to be how flexible they are when facing different situation, how fast they can make adjustment.

[@AndreasFreiburg]

"Trickle down mech-onomics" is a great term.

[@Bobzrozrotwo]

Just found this game and starting to get into it... But what is the reason for building the metal extractors off-center to the node? Do you get almost the same metal extraction with the ability upgrade a more advanced metal extractor later without having to reclaim or place it on a different node?

[@Adalore]

/violent war flashbacks to trying to react to the marauders with my snipers. Like to be fair I was frontlining. :P

[@jasonknickerbocker6683]

@Wintergaming what is the name of the player you got the build from? You said it a couple times but I couldn't quite understand - Clyrit? Klirate?

[@calebshort2169]

i love this video im going to try this im going to fail at it but ill try it. can you do a couple videos where you show how to front line in really noob orientated detail for me a giant nob please

[@zacharywood3182]

Loved this

[@bobfreeze]

What was the music winter had playing? Shit's fire

[@DirvishTheCat]

Really happy people can't execute this as well as you can. I saw this video yesterday and then today 3 people on the enemy team used this strat. I 1 v 2'd this rush with my Sheldon's, the enemy did not micro well and I pushed through to end :)

[@potatomasherr]

for some reason i feel that after a certain amount of build structures the time for construction doesn;t change

[@manumaster1990]

nice

[@jimguy607]

Cool video, taught be alot 👍

[@br4624]

I will argue with the commander sacrifice. It is not always necessary.

[@Lostpancake1111]

more of this format for sure

[@mackomako]

I got facerolled with Marauders rush yesterday as top player. When I saw them I knew it's gg. What do you think is a good counter to them? I mean they are cheap - just like Bull tank but it has more range, dps and speed. I would say Marauders are just too cheap. What do you think?

[@entengummitiger1576]

gantry is how much, 7k?

[@mackomako]

@@entengummitiger1576 7.9k

[@aruanamic8766]

Had a lvl 1 player try this on a map with only frontlines. needless to say I got rolled by the combined forces of 2 players and his base was destroyed. Luckily the reclaim bounced me back up and I was able to hold my base long enough for my allies to clean up lol.

[@P_Petkov]

Did bhe explain why he was not reclaiming his solar collectors?

[@mesaber86]

Clyret said in one of his recent games he started a new trend that Marauder is OP. By him saying that he means they are NOT OP :) Clyret is in a league of his own in both 1v1 and team games. He can win in any way he wants so dont blindly believe anything he does is OP just because the best player of BAR can do it. Check replay of him playing vs therxy 1v1 and be amazed. He basically makes fun of you meanwhile winning in stunning (literally) fashion.

[@SnkobArts]

Ok, ok, ookayyy, i have a couple questions(1/2): What i absolutely do not understand, is why the win/lose condition is killing their/losing your commander, AND YET, a major mechanic is suicide-martyr-ing your commander for early game metal. Why isn't that the equivalent of Alt+F4-ing? What's the subsequent win/lose condition after salvaging your commander? Does it, then, become losing your buildings (the trade off being the relative lower combined HP of your buildings in comparison to your commander)?

[@jasonknickerbocker6683]

Nah, if you det your com in a 1v1, you lose instantly. In team games, the coms are the team's "lives". Can be worth to lose a life if it gets you an advantage. Some people will only reclaim 95% of the com, get their eco up, then repair and rez him later when they have the metal to spare.

[@SnkobArts]

@@jasonknickerbocker6683 thank you thank you! Sounds pretty cool. More fun than Sc2 teams where the two builds are two base all in or turtle to carriers lol

[@mrBadimus]

I prefer replays. And more steady camera =)

[@gilles22]

Please feed me more of those ! Thanks has always for the amazing video ♥

[@kinglinkz]

Can advanced Solar dodge nukes?

[@JTSnake4]

I like the narration. I too get really focused and quiet while playing the game. Might take some practice for commentary while playing a game like this. When the gf talks I barely hear what she's saying lol.

[@56bturn]

It's a Mad Dog mixed with a Blackjack!

[@nac9494]

What? Units in BAR Level up?

[@TheJackOfFools]

I wonder what the drop off curve is for build power.

[@TheLingWhisperer]

Structures and units have a build cost, a metal cost, and an energy cost. Divide the build cost by the amount of build power you're using, and that's how many seconds it will take to complete the structure. Divide the energy and metal cost of the structure/unit by the amount of seconds it takes, and that's how much it will cost you per second. It's completely linear.

[@TheJackOfFools]

@@TheLingWhisperer Where do you find the build cost? I see a metal and energy cost on the site, and in the game, but no build cost.

[@TheLingWhisperer]

@@TheJackOfFools When you look at an expanded unit card, it's the third number at the top.

[@bitslammer]

IMO using the replay is the way to go. Let's you do your best at both playing and commenting. Being able to pause and look around the map makes for deeper commentary. If only they had a rewind.

[@LeakysTV]

im still new but if i go air at min 10 i roam with 20 bomber and if i nuke rush usually it land at min 15 (with geo is all more easy). so expect better player to do better for timing your defences guys

[@pacemaker6328]

I understand why most like this format, but I prefer the live gameplay. I dont necessarily care for all the knowledge, I just like watching a pro gramer's decision making in action.

[@bellzhellz5922]

the re-watch feature does not have a rewind? what the heck, I feel like that is a basic feature to have but maybe I am just spoiled

[@jgillservices]

its to do with how the game is processed if i remember correctly, even as a spec or watching a replay you still have to simulate the game at each tick or something like that. im not an expert on it but devs have explained on the discord why it is very hard to implement for the srping engine that BAR runs on. hopefully in the future they will find a way to implement it.

[@OlovMetal]

powerful magic!

[@andrewgreeb916]

gunslinger is honestly why I prefer armada, it is solid, has decent dps fast learning and self repair

[@alexisbrin518]

What is fast learning doing ??

[@jamyorday]

The heck

[@OMGSoothsayer95]

@@alexisbrin518 in BAR units get exp on every kill increasing their 'rank', units with higher rank deal more damage, fast-learning means the gunslinger ranks up faster (I haven't seen it been relevant tho)

[@alexisbrin518]

I always build a couple gunslinger as my first T2 units. Cause you can keep them alive and build up a lot of value cleaning pawns, tanking damages etc..

[@EugeneParallax]

For me personally, Gunslinger just doesn't justify its cost. You can get two Hounds for the price of one, and those can do the same if not outright better. I believe these two perks are way overestimated, and Gs poor base stats do not allow to make use of them, aside from abusing T1s which any other T2 unit can do anyway and often in more direct ways. You're basically paying extra for additional micro you'd need to reach the same goal.

[@Dentair]

U can try load duplocating video, one as is when u play, and other with commentary via replay and look who have more views)

[@Dentair]

beware twink bot, its looks like a fake congrats^

[@2Limm]

Loving it! Though... Please stop zooming so much, my eyes are getting too old to keep up without motion sickness XD

[@jonbauml225]

Looking scary. Show me more!

[@mr.voidroy6869]

Now all team games will end at 6 mins because everyone sacs their commander lol

[@nicolasbertin8552]

You missed a mex to upgrade in your base lol, it was sitting there as basic mex the whole time.

[@scottalberts3366]

Can you only self destruct your commander in multiplayer?

[@bobjohnthemonkeyman]

Yes otherwise you lose!

[@jgillservices]

depends on the game mode you set. in single player you can set game end condition to when all units/buildings die instead of commanders. you can also set game mode so you die when your com dies in multiplayer. or as is the normal game mode, you die when all your teams commanders die.

[@kingfisher1638]

Problem is you seem to commit to either unit production or economy in the later stages of the game when you really should be setting up a slow eco build up (1 AFU/4Acon) while pumping units to avoid letting your enemies outscale you.

[@shadow7988]

I'm not sure that's always practical in late game when you're juggling production across several things. What I tend to see is people building a certain amount to maintain or push the field, and then turning that production towards eco to support a larger force in the future or game enders. With unit spammers, the tendency I see is that they fail to hit a critical mass because their units are just constantly trickling and getting blown up and reclaimed, FEEDING the enemy. You can't really spam T3 units until your eco is already beastly, after all, so it's mostly lighter stuff constantly running out and getting clapped ineffectually. At some point you HAVE to slow it down and focus on eco to survive late game or you're going to end up with a bunch of juggernauts or rapid fire artillery tearing into your base.

[@jgillservices]

trying to build both at the same time you end up stalling both which means both are slow. focus on building only units quickly to secure front line and kill enemyt for the metal reclaim. switch to economy to build up eco quick, then you have more eco to produce more units. it is really not efficient to do both. at very late stages with adv fusion spam and energy converter spam it is kind of viable to do both. take this from me as one someone with 40+skill in the game.

[@jgillservices]

actually. one scenario i can think of. if you are snowballing front and reclaiming tons of metal, it is easy to produce eco and units at the same time. most times you will need to build more energy just to be able to spend the metal you are reclaiming. that and the late stage adv fusion spam are the only two times i can think of that you should do it simultaneously. otherwise you should focus on one or the other for better efficiency.

[@sinistressdreams7243]

So they released a new Forged Alliance Forever with some Quality of life changes, will give it a try since im playing FAF alot :D Also im pretty sure but M stands for "Mass" and not for Metal, as it is basically a 1 to 1 copy from FAF

[@Jared-150]

Have you ever heard of a thing called Total Annihilation?

[@sinistressdreams7243]

@@Jared-150 I've heard the name before but I don't know anything about it, why are you asking? Is there something to it?

[@Jared-150]

@@sinistressdreams7243 Beyond All Reason is basically a 1 to 1 copy from Total Annihilation, not FAF. (Though FAF and SupCom is definitely a spiritual successor to Total Annihilation.) Beyond All Reason is basically a free remake of Total Annihilation (and now it has taken a life of its own which is awesome), with some names changed for copyright purposes. Examples: Cortex is Core in TA Armada is Arm in TA Hound is Fido in TA TA had bot factories, vehicle factories, hovercraft factories, seaplane factories Resources in TA: energy and metal, not mass Some casters will even still use the TA names of units instead of the BAR names.

[@sinistressdreams7243]

@@Jared-150 Thank you for taking your time and explaining that to me :D Was really interesting to know! Thanks again :D

[@exceed8415]

Me when the youtuber says that 1:70 ratio is more efficient than 1:6 when comparing start up costs. (Metal per energy)

[@exceed8415]

Me when commenter reads Building description wrong 💀

[@influenciaindebida]

Bunch of rookies like me going into ladder to try it out... 3, 2, 1....🎉

[@snipplez8657]

make nuke rush build

[@joeschroedernz]

Winter is being insane😅

[@SnkobArts]

(2/2) ALSO, Winter and other peoples, you have said this is the sequel to Total Annihilation. Wasn't Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance the sequel to that game?? Wouldn't that make this the sequel to Supreme Commander (We wont talk about how EA "Activisioned" SupCom2 ((AND CNC 😭)) before Activision made it mainstream)? Lastly, at the risk of triggering people; also, acknowledging that more races/more units isnt necessarily better gameplay and/or balance-wise, especially in pvp where having more than 2 players on a map is concerned: Why should I play this game over SupCom FA when SupCom FA seems to have more races, more units (very cool looking units i might add), not to mention the commander blows up in a much more dramatic nuclear fireball mushroom cloud? Sup Com FA has the player supported and curated Forged Alliance Forever community (aforementioned "EA-Activisioned" notwithstanding) is this F2P Beyond All Reason game somehow related to that?

[@SnkobArts]

Awwwwwh. Winter is officially youtube famous. His first honorary Phishing bots!!

[@David_Brinkerhoff93]

so much better than those insufferable noobs that think Dragons are good to rush.

[@gthorondor]

Good game

[@markusgiver9735]

Really nice format! But please, do not zoom in and out the whole time, it is really hard to follow. I know its a handy tool, but for replay purposes it would gain the viewer so much if pan and skips were used instead of zooming, as often thats possible of course. Otherwise great :)

[@snipplez8657]

nooo u gave away my strat now i cant bully the noob lobbies

[@user-zz8xf9od9w]

I love it when people start sentences and don't...

[@timoschofer2035]

For a long time this unit was useless, finally it becomes useful. It is far away from being op. All depending on the situation. Seems like your team was winning also without you and u were I guess far ahead with eco at that point. U could have build any other unit and winning the game the same way. Build razorbacks, build vanguards, everything would have won that game

[@mr.voidroy6869]

" bar has a solid replay system" "You cant rewind" ????????????

[@AlexsMemeDump]

More post commentary

[@nathanneal5525]

First

[@DyingCr0w]

I strongly recommend that you keep to the original game soundtrack or something similar. This anime thing you played is completely generic and out of context.