Riff Analysis 016 - Gorguts "Forgotten Arrows"

In which I argue that there are some cool thwarted symmetries in both form and harmony in this Gorguts riff.
Found out from the comments that Luc Lemay did not in fact write this song (Colin Marston did), my apologies. Still some cool techniques that Luc does use in other places.
I tried transcribing this myself but decided this tab on UG was better than what I came up with, so that's what I used:
tabs.ultimate-...
Some of my favorite Luc Lemay interviews:
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[@fourground4363]

Honestly this is the best channel I think I've ever found on KZbin.

[@OurFreeReflections]

RIGHT!?!?

[@ihategooglesomuch2119]

+1

[@matthewws5694]

Agreed.

[@xaviergrant7165]

I’d have to agree!

[@MyNameAkhim]

I’m so happy someone is breaking down some of these weird Gorguts riffs

[@RainbowAceOfSpades]

Would love to see some Ulcerate and Demilich analysis!

[@notasian7620]

Ulcerate me

[@Thrasher0411]

Ulcerate would be amazing

[@pasqualecurry7773]

Wow. Almost forgot about Demilich. Thanks, bud.

[@RainbowAceOfSpades]

@@pasqualecurry7773 You're welcome!

[@pasqualecurry7773]

@@RainbowAceOfSpades dude. The vocals on that album litterally sound like burping; It made them stand out, I remember jamming them and demigod back in the day.

[@pastluck]

this is fucking insane. i’ve always wanted a breakdown of these dissonant metal bands I listen to and you’re the answer to my prayers. would love some wormed and artificial brain on the channel!

[@pastluck]

Just found your Wormed video! you’re a legend!

[@aterix]

Just found this channel and this is my second video. I’m so thankful to see this breakdown. What’s also notable to me about this riff is it’s balance between some kind of pleasure/tastefulness. If it was maximal dissonance, it would likely just be noise and uninteresting.

[@k-ondoomer]

How did I not notice the minor second tritone intervals stacked. Shits instant death metal real estate

[@Ambiguidade]

Forgotten Arrows was in fact composed by Colin Marston.

[@sktrid]

a testament to his chameleon abilities! it sounds very LeMay

[@Ambiguidade]

@@sktrid I read Luc somewhere stating that both Colin and Kevin came up with one song, each representing their take on what a Gorguts song would sound in that album context. Absconders is Kevin's, btw.

[@sktrid]

@@Ambiguidade makes sense. it's very cool of luc to allow them to write such big songs but i imagine he trusted them to do great things :)

[@metalmusictheory5401]

Ooh my bad! Didn't realize that!

[@voronOsphere]

@@sktrid I love Colin's recording abilities and sensibilities, too!!!!

[@BenEller]

So i somehow just discovered this album (and your channel!) today! Holy moly, i am FLOORED by this album. Incredible. Digging your channel, too! Cheers!

[@G00N3YC4NG]

I can barely consider myself a metal head, and can't even begin to act like I understand the theory behind anything you talk about- but boy am I glad I found your channel.

[@FreepowerUG]

Ooooh, hyped for this one, Forgotten Arrows is a favorite of mine. First thing I'll watch in the morning!

[@FreepowerUG]

The pacing, visual aids and playthrough elements really tie together brilliantly. Informative and entertaining. The respect for your audience really shines through!

[@michalwlosik3544]

Colin Marston input is undeniable here, just like Dan Mongrain's on From Wisdom to Hate

[@theoppositeistrue]

Someone analyzing actually interesting metal? Don’t see that often. My mans got Krallice and Gorguts? Could we possibly 🥺 get a Yowie riff analysis? Not really metal per se but extremely technical old man noise rock is good too. Wild guitar playing. Also, FFO Gorguts, check out: Plebeian Grandstand, Jute Gyte, Imperial Triumphant, Karmacipher, Esoctrilihum, Growth, Chaos Motion, Cosmovore, Pyrrhon, Ulcerated, Ulthar, GLYPTOGLOSSIO, Deathspell Omega, Of Feather and Bone, Aberration, Omegavortex, Gigan, Akhlys, Lautreamont, Dodecahedron, Bathe, Blut Aus Nord, Serpent Column, Xythlia, Aseitas, Atavisma, Wake, Oranssi Pazuzu, Defeated Sanity... shit, so much music came out last year. But there’s a good list for anyone looking to get into more dissonant metal stuff. 🌈

[@indridcold777]

Most surprised to see Jute Gyte and Xythlia up there. Intense offerings from both men.

[@theoppositeistrue]

@@indridcold777 I haven’t been able to attend for several weeks because of a new job, but I usually co-host a metal radio show at my local uni every Monday night. Gotta stay updated! To be completely transparent, canthisevenbecalledmusic.com will show you (mostly) everything you could hope to find on a weekly basis when it comes to metal. Thanks 4 the sweetie pie response

[@indridcold777]

@@theoppositeistrue I actually stumbled upon that very site a few months back! I forget what artist I was looking up, but I think I found a review of it. The site name always stuck with me. Thanks for the heads up, I'll be sure give a listen or ten!

[@paveantelic7876]

dang thats a fantastic list of bands. shame you didnt mention ad nauseam tho💀

[@justynsullivan507]

Can’t wait for the DEP video!

[@Mickhealthy]

Thank your genius. Great work

[@ambassadortourettes753]

BTW 🤔 "Very Gorguts" is the highest form of compliment one can ever get... ✍️

[@SamuelBlackMetalRider]

Luc Lemay is a FRIGGIN GENIUS!! Thanks for analyzing this

[@YavorArseniev]

It's almost two in the morning here and I really should be off to bed, but how can I when I get a notification you've uploaded a Gorguts video? Great stuff as always!

[@tyrantix1]

I'm glad KZbin randomly suggested one of your videos. I like how you simplify theory and break things down so well

[@lumpenada977]

I did not realize this channel existed! Just saw gorguts this past weekend on tour with CC. Gonna follow you closely now!

[@ambassadortourettes753]

Seriously 👌🤘 This guy is SINGLE Handedly 🤔 Bringing a Savant's Level of appreciation for Musical Composition to "The World of Extreme Music" 🤘

[@mathieulefrancois7052]

You are great man, your channel is super interesting and It'll grow exponentially in no time

[@jordanmichael2655]

I have waited years for this

[@Jeffmetal42]

Someone was asking me how I'd describe Gorguts' music and I likened it to a skyscraper warping, folding and crushing in on itself, with steel beams, concrete and glass being squashed into the size of a chewed up baseball. Basically the heaviest and most beautifully malformed creations on earth. Loved this breakdown of Gorguts' twisted riffs. 🤘 Cheers!

[@ultrahero2115]

Dude, I'm so insanely glad someone on KZbin is taking a more theoretical approach to this kind of music and laying it out for everyone else to see. It's a beautiful thing you're doing. I would love to see what you had to say about stuff like Deathspell Omega, Ulcerate, Portal, Converge, earlier Today is the Day or Discordance Axis. I usually just find myself freaking out about the musicality of this stuff by myself, but not anymore!

[@metalmusictheory5401]

Def got Deathspell (did an instagram thing about them years ago) and Ulcerate on the list, and I'll add the others!

[@ultrahero2115]

@@metalmusictheory5401 Awesome! Many thanks! Is there any way you could link the Deathspell instagram video you did?

[@spleeble]

hell yes my favorite riff on the album

[@endlessduck1642]

atleast mention the dizzyingly groovy riff after! in addition to this intro riff it made this song a daily listen for almost months. i just discovered your videos, great stuff:D

[@reptarien]

Thanks for putting me onto gorguts. This entire album is in my playlist HAH :D I love that they play in C standard, too. C is like my favorite note with g being directly behind it so it resonates with me more.

[@matthewpowell2527]

This channel is platinum

[@ericcervelli]

I LOVE THIS CHANNEL RIGHT NOW!

[@Aouas]

Your channel is a hidden gem at the moment. Hopefully it will skyrocket in the near future! Do you have plan's on doing any Deathspell Omega, Ulcerate or Ved Buens Ende analysis?

[@metalmusictheory5401]

Thanks! Deathspell and Ulcerate definitely on the list!

[@oswaldgrimmelsworth9774]

this channel rules, keep it going!

[@EmptyTenementSpirit]

I'm currently learning this song at the moment since I got tabs from Kevin like, 7 years ago? But wasn't able to play it until recently, which I mostly attribute to lack of confidence. Watching this video... my theory knowledge is extremely limited, I've only started actually learning it in the last few months, but I find what I'm hearing here is actually helping me play it a bit and understand it better. Really cool stuff, I absolutely love your channel.

[@DigitalTiger101]

That's it. I've watched this guy enough that I now have to subscribe.

[@Mightyass1]

Your channel is just the dopest shit I've found in a long while. I really enjoy theoretical break-downs of technical music, and I rarely find the time to deep-dive myself. Getting spoon-fed with such succinct detail and understanding is great in itself, then add to that getting introduced to new bands. Enough to make a man thankful and happy. Keep up the fantastic work!

[@nanthilrodriguez]

Analyzing the 016 intervals in review 016. Clever girl. I absolutely love your creative, original expressions, and you just plow through them without so much as a smirk, like they're long standing idioms. MORE Please analyze riffs from ion dissonance breathing is irrelevant!

[@metalmusictheory5401]

Love Ion Dissonance too! Man this guy gets it. It's been fun finding so many people who seem to have the same exact taste as me. And thank you! Yeah I've found that the best way to teach is to pretend like what you're talking about isn't a big deal, even if you're not sure if anyone else has talked about it. I feel like too many people are like super sensationalist when they talk about metal, so I'm trying to correct for that!

[@nanthilrodriguez]

@@metalmusictheory5401 You're doing a killer job. And I'm enjoying the content!

[@Devananta-Rafiq]

Found your channel from Gorguts' post. Instant subs!

[@TheMarga628]

Could you do Fleshwrought or Artificial Brain?

[@williaml.6922]

This is all really interesting, and I thank you for having the courage to put yourself on KZbin. I learn a little bit that I might be able to apply to learning to play guitar again, or I hear these bands and their music slightly differently so I can better appreciate them. Sometimes extreme metal becomes a mass of white noise or certain guitar tones sound like 1980's video games or a beehive in a can, but this reminds me that it very often is not. +1 to you, good sir!

[@OurFreeReflections]

*cut edit* "the harmony is very gorguts" *cut edit* btw i love these videos, this is one of my fave channels ever

[@andrewbellavie795]

Extremely impressive discussion man! Subscribed

[@TheRobphobos]

Thank you again, amazing band and love what you're doing!

[@medulasa1]

Extremely happy to see someone doing the work of applying set theory to death metal - so many of these techniques you're describing are so absolutely Stravinskyan, too, it warms my heart

[@DudelyDuWrong]

Lemay is classically trained and even has classical interludes he composed on albums. I'm sure the others especially the second guitarist are as well.

[@xXsleazethrashXx]

Dude this is so damn inspirational 🦾🧠🔥🔥🔥

[@relaxwithriffs6682]

Extremely well-argued and fascinating analysis my dude. 10/10

[@cmloegcmluin]

please feel free to do more Gorguts analyses anytime! :-P among my favorite metal bands, they're the ones I have the hardest time explaining *exactly why* they're so awesome. I just feel it clearly. but these sorts of breakdowns vindicate those feelings for me. thanks as always for your incredible insight!

[@paxtecum8699]

Thanks for your videos. We needed a Metal music theory Channel. You nailed it.

[@goriq1000]

Left you a sub. I love channels like yours! As someone with little understanding of music theory it's great to see these visualizations along with your explanations, it really makes what you're talking about more tangible. I would love to see you tackle some Deathspell Omega, Ad Nauseam, VI, early At the Gates or early The Hirsch Effekt riffs... and so many others! Keep it up!

[@megamankicksyourass]

Very cool. I could hear the riff from wisdom to hate riff in the hexa collections

[@Paradoxalboy82]

Just saw this video and the one on Ingurgitating Oblivion, this channel is going to become my favourite in the music theory !

[@timdedecker7894]

so happy i found this channel, very interesting and informative vids about some of my favorite bands. Keep up the great work man!

[@stephanelosardo3579]

Thanks🤘

[@samirpashayev5946]

love your videos, mate! hope to see your dissection of ulcerate one day!

[@DemonizedTX]

Wow another excellent video, I love watching your analysis of these riffs!

[@ttwounds]

This channel is awesome.

[@widepootis]

I have been playing guitar for 4 years and have never taken any course on music theory, but gorguts is my favorite band and your video was fascinating, I think I'll try learning on theory for once

[@voronOsphere]

Thanks for doing these!

[@aubesemale]

i just found your channel today and im watching every single one of your videos. i love how straightforward you are in what you explain. if i could subscribe 3 times i would. love your shit dude!

[@ilves5980]

When people like Gorguts and Deathspell Omega, I always recommend them The Dillinger Escape Plan (and some of the older Norwegian Black Metal/Avant Garde bands). Glad you mentioned Dillinger, as open a lot of people are in Metal, they almost have a fear of listening to Dillinger.

[@Wingsoficarus90]

Your channel is dope dude. Us metalheads are a rare breed and me personally I’m a music theory nerd. Keep it up man 👍

[@JacobSnover]

Very nice! I remember seeing Gorguts and Dying Fetus at Fireside Bowl in Chicago!

[@ckokomo808]

This is SICK! Thanks for the video. I’ll be sharing to my other metalhead friends.

[@SpookyApparition]

protect this man

[@witherfinger]

great video. quality content here! Gorguts are the kings

[@guidoretro]

Beautiful riff!

[@jeremyhassell7911]

What an amazing track, probably my favorite of this record. Keep it up!

[@Deafandblind]

Very gooood!

[@4DFlatlander]

A very inspirational view on the oldest language known to humanity, music. This comes across as you being in a "flow state". The best thing you can do to preserve that state is keep doing exactly what you are doing :)

[@nrothe2898]

Awesome stuff, would love to see more Gorguts dissected

[@TheApostleofRock]

Wow I watched this video a while ago, forgot about it, discovered and was blown away by Obscura and then From Wisdom To Hate. And now I'm here like FUCK YEAH GORGUTS.

[@nolyspe]

Also, suggestion for the list: Convulsing (amazing, underrated tech death from Australia), AEvangelist, Bölzer, Grave Miasma, Virus / Ved Buens Ende, the Icelandic black metal scene (Svartidauði, Misþyrming), Solefald, The Ruins of Beverast, (old school) Sentenced, Oranssi Pazuzu, stuff from the new wave of atmos BM (Mare Cognitum has some banger riffs, for example), Voivod (and Vektor to follow!), (counterpoint in) Emperor's music, Bolt Thrower (masters of riffing in death metal), the swede scene (Opeth / Katatonia for prog death, In Flames / Soilwork / At The Gates for melodeath, Entombed / Dismember for HM-2 sound, etc.)...

[@metalmusictheory5401]

Love all those bands! Already got an Opeth video too, Vektor in the near future!

[@Sherm420]

Ulthar. 👌🏻 very nice

[@desi_anarch]

Omg glad I found this channel. \m/

[@Epochstudios]

Would be nice to see ya break down Morbid Angel, Nile, Lecherous Nocturne and Immolation

[@williamkoscielniak820]

YES YES YES!

[@Pleadingforriffs]

There's a phenomenon in a lot of metal guitarists and even more in death metal guitarist where instead of thinking about each individual note choice and its color they just pick the ugliest notes and play and write riffs without analyzing it too deeply. It's not necessarily a bad thing because the result of Immolation and Morbid Angel riffs is just fucking sick and savage riffs. Its super easy to see the visual pattern for a key on the guitar and subsequently just make riffs on that without a lot of aforethought choices. Obviously exceptions occur, but when these exceptions do occur its mainly in tech death and prog death. Okay so I'm gonna try to summarize this cause I sound like a fuckin idiot right now. Lots of metal riffs kick absolute ass but arent as theory oriented compared to tech death bands or prog death bands and such. Its the difference between Cannibal Corpse and Necrophagist for example. Or old Gorguts (pre Obscura) and Colored Sands era Gorguts where harmonies and riffs are thought out heavily. But my main point is it would be silly to try and explain the theory behind a bands riff that is so relatively simple that the band themselves doesn't consciously think about theory and makes songs on a more simplistic guitar player thinking way. Like why spend effort and time on a Immolation riff versus another Ingurgitating Oblivion video or even like a Necrophagist one? Nothing wrong with more simplistic thinking dm because its kickass but there's a lot of higher thinking in some bands that deserves more attention in a video like these imo

[@lassiimmonen3542]

Please keep on doing what you are doing... like a lot! Seriously great stuff

[@TeamMontrealMetal]

Cool! Thanks Calder!

[@iceandblaze92]

Also I’ve also realized that fir death metal the best intervals to really get that give us exactly how you describe it using the a stacked harmony of minor second and a Tritone!

[@grandfathernebulous]

Amazing explanations on this channel. If you haven't heard it already I would highly recommend 'Dystrophy - Wretched Host' as it is very much in the Gorguts vein of extreme metal.

[@ilu9033]

I just wanna point out the fact that your tone is great!

[@metalmusictheory5401]

Thanks! Switched to using Neural DSP Omega recently which has been working well for me!

[@ilu9033]

@@metalmusictheory5401 And it shows, I mainly use the Fortin Nameless Suite, but I've tried that one and its one of the best distorted tones ever to me.

[@aglees2b]

Awesome content as ever. Great series that you've put together.

[@Kozmotik]

The best channel ever, good luck and good job!

[@matthewoien8939]

Damn. This channel is in unbelievably great. Please keep up the great content. If you analyze DEP consider the song We are the Storm. That one still baffles me after all these years.

[@timothy-js]

I've been watching your channel consistently for a little while now, and I think you have some of the best music theory insights out of anyone I've seen on youtube. So many other channels spend way too much time rehashing basic or already-covered information. But with you, it's all wheat, no chaff. I wonder whether you might ever cover the music theory of microtonal metal - it seems like a topic that you could really get in depth with.

[@metalmusictheory5401]

Thanks! That's the goal (and why I read from my scripts like a robot lol). And for sure! I've been thinking about doing something about Jute Gyte for microtonal stuff, what other bands do you have in mind?

[@timothy-js]

Jute Gyte is great, and so are Cryptic Ruse, the Mercury Tree, Agonanist, Last Sacrament, and the Blus Aut Nord album 'MoRT'. I also released an album of microtonal metal in 2019 under the name Trauma Triad. A lot of microtonal musicians (myself included) are eagerly share the details behind their compositions, so it shouldn't be too hard to find information to start off of.

[@bmhyakiri]

Great video! Easy subscribe. Now I gotta go listen to some Gorguts.

[@dr_philmtl5514]

That was sick!

[@bwzarchive708]

Ulcerate could be interesting for analysis

[@patrickzunidza7678]

Best channel on YT 😍

[@manoelsoares8486]

Amazing video

[@waggy4703]

Love your videos, looking forward to what comes next. Would love to see artificial brain and how the guitar parts intertwine

[@metalmusictheory5401]

Ooh yeah I've been meaning to play some of their stuff since they released tabs, definitely will!

[@lemonshik]

holy shit your channel is my best find of the last couple of years! would be cool to see you do a dive into Ulcerate and Artificial Brain for more disso-death weirdness :)

[@avantagonist]

oh hi it's me, the target demographic for your videos, this rules thank you

[@nuynobi]

This is the first video of yours I've ever watched. What a great music theory nerd-out! You had me at set theory. Subscribed. Can't say I loved the riff though. Interesting, yes, but hellishly cacophonous. I've never heard Gorguts before though, so maybe it will grow in me.

[@metalmusictheory5401]

Oh haha this is one of their more melodious ones! An acquired taste. Thank you!

[@ohbabar6649]

Keep up these vids man!

[@dylandilella9504]

Colin Marston was the writer for this song FYI

[@jonajon91]

You might get a kick out of Ron Jarzombeks blotted science project. Lots of tonal clusters, symmetrical scales and 12 tone usage.

[@metalmusictheory5401]

Love that project! One of the first technical projects I got into

[@K_R_N.]

Disentomb riff analysis would be amazing

[@KilpatrickProductions]

Awesome Video! im glad I stumbled across this channel. Would love to see some videos on Artificial Brain and Blood Incantation music. I also think a video analyzing the musicianship between certain guitarists/bassists or drummer/bassists would be pretty cool. Metal is lucky to have musicians who have developed to really complement each other. Thanks for the great content

[@bigolboomerbelly4348]

Thanks

[@brettabey9973]

Any chance at some Spawn of Possession in the future?

[@PartParakeet]

Would you consider making your transcriptions available via one of the tab hosting sites, or even as a perk on Patreon? You're covering almost everything I want to learn to play myself and I'd be very happy to support the channel, especially if I was getting some difficult-to-transcribe materials out of it!

[@metalmusictheory5401]

Ooh maybe! This tab I actually got on ultimate guitar (I did a version myself and decided the one I found was better): www.ultimate-guitar.com/search.php?search_type=title&value=gorguts%20forgotten%20arrows

[@jcalzada74]

You are to become the next Ron Jarzombek he has lots of theories that mi brain can't comprehend

[@YavorArseniev]

Now that I have read this comment, I'd love an Hannan/Jarzombek podcast.

[@voronOsphere]

I love Ron Jarzombek and Watchtower! The other maniac guitarist/composer/contributer in Watchtower was Billy White! His guitar solo theory is total WTF (?) and he's easily just as masterful a songwriter as Jarzombek!

[@voronOsphere]

.....Can you imagine Ron Jarzombek and Billy White being in Watchtower at the same time?!!!! Oh, man!!!

[@v.volkov4916]

ummm next what?

[@jcalzada74]

@@v.volkov4916 and you question was ???

[@bwzarchive708]

nice guitars