British Fourth Issue 1958 Pattern Web Equipment

Fourth issue British 1958 Pattern Web Equipment components.
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[@mikedelta792]

My brother had a setup just like that, I think with the S10. I had the standard setup with with the two kidney pouches. I had the S10 but as I was TA and a sprog I was given the tin helmet to use. Our troop cpl wanted to see how tough they were, and hit one of the lads with a shovel. The dent was massive and his eyes were glazed and looked like he had a thousand yard stare. Not a thing I ever wanted to see again. But that was the early 90’s for you. Thanks for your great content. QS

[@mickhall88]

Wow, that took me right back! That's exactly how I had my webbing set up after basic training in 91, although I never, ever saw any S6 respirator pouches, only the later S10 pouches! It was also common for guys to add a strip of roll mat inside the belt, to act as additional padding. Also a bungee cord was often strapped around the rear pouches to prevent bouncing around. Using the narrower water bottle pouches around the back was more comfortable and more flexible. I'd say that no one ever wore the mesh net scarf in my regiment, only Norwegian shirts and wool jumpers, or Helly Hanson field jackets if it was really cold.

[@RiflemanMoore]

Glad it brought back (happy?) memories! From my understanding the S6 was something of a rarity at this point but still on issue to some. I am considering putting together a permanent setup with the improvised hip pad and bungee cord at some point when I have a bit more space and can leave sets assembled. Thanks for the tip on the Norgie shirt, I really do need to pick one up at some point.

[@mickhall88]

@@RiflemanMoore haha, yes happy memories indeed. On the S6 pouches; I would imagine that any unit that took part in Gulf War 1 would have the later NBC kit, including the pouches. I do remember we had the older Noddy green suits, until about 93 when the full zip DPM ones became available. We got PLCE around '94. For reference I was Royal Signals

[@spm36]

I was using this in 1987...horrid webbing..it got wet and it decided to dry out in various differing interesting shapes!

[@RiflemanMoore]

@@mickhall88 Thanks for the further information. Regarding the S6 haversack you would think everyone in the Gulf would have been issued bang up to date kit but there are plenty of photographs showing the S6 haversacks in use.

[@robshirewood5060]

SAS TA had the same setup but using 1944 pattern water bottle pouches at the rear, usually two water bottles one at each rear side and 3 or 4 water bottle pouches between them with mess tin, rations, survival, etc kit in them.

[@keithorbell8946]

Interesting you say PLCE was issued to frontline units, I went to Belize in 1991 on a Fam Visit to the resident Infantry Battalion. They were issued (and all PO’s like me) were issued with 58 pattern, while all the RAOC Store wallahs had gleaming PLCE, perfect for cutting about Airport Camp!

[@RiflemanMoore]

A very fair point, store wallahs will be store wallahs it seems! I at least believe issue to front line troops as a priority was the intention when initially issuing out the new kit. Then again I think there was something of an overarching priority in issuing PLCE to troops destined for the Gulf.

[@andrewfox6631]

It was the TA that used 58 in the 90s

[@andrewfox6631]

I used 58 Patten 89/90, during training. But when I got to my unit we used PLCE

[@RCWB74]

@RiflemanMoore - The 2 x Rear Pouches on the ‘58 Webbing Belt Kit were know as ‘Kidney Pouches’ because that’s where they sat on your body. All the best, 😀👍🏼

[@RiflemanMoore]

Colloquially, yes. Officially they are termed pouches, rear. Where possible, at least more recently, I've tried to use official nomenclature in my videos.

[@RCWB74]

Rifleman Moore - Did you also see my comment on “Smock/Trousers, Men’s, Waterproof DP”?

[@andrewjohnston4127]

I wonder how widespread the issue of this make of pouches would have been, I was still using 58 pattern until it was replaced in 1994. I can't recall ever seeing pouches with the bayonet or energa pocket missing. It's crazy that they were still being manufactured as late as 1992. Probably made, held in stores then released as surplus as it looks brand new. The waterbottle carrier set up was fairly common as you say, I had mine set up like that for a time before I bought one of those arktis chest rigs. One thing that I do remember seeing was a 44 pattern waterbottle carrier being used by those who could source them and even ALICE ones popped up on a regular basis. They'd fit the 58 bottle less the mug.

[@maxbodymass]

You have to remember that other countries had/used 58 pattern webbing. They may have not needed the other attachments.

[@RiflemanMoore]

This is true. The 'clean' pouches are made to British contracts however and have British NSNs. They are British issue.

[@simonsignolet5632]

The trick with the ALICE W/B pouch was to use a '44 Mug - fits, no problem. A '95 Mug fits, too.

[@simonsignolet5632]

Being Airborne, when worn, we had the respirator case on the LEFT side ONLY, '44 W/B pouch on the right side. It meant that you could access the DKP pads pouch EASIER. Note the decreased functionality difference if worn on the right side. Try a dry run of drinking from the waterbottle (S6 or S10): it makes a difference, especially if you're carrying a heavy bergen. I don't know why that wasn't the recommended fitting for all units. IMO, as is often the case, the manual was wrong to advise it should be worn on the right.

[@RiflemanMoore]

Excellent points well made. I'm assuming the only exception might be for those with respirators designed for left-handers? The pouch on the S6 haversack for the DKP is also on the opposite side.

[@rorybrown9750]

Hi, ex Recce platoon Guardsman here, ( 1975 -80). This webbing was absolute crap equipment like everything else the Army issued in the 1970's /80's. Weighed a ton when wet and became so stiff it was practically impossible to do up the pouches. The large pack that went with this webbing was probably the worst thing I have ever worn. It hung on two straps that connected to the shoulders hooks. I don't know who designed it but they had never been in the field. If you were clued up you went to Silvermans in the Mile end road and purchased a 1950's pattern bergen instead. As was the case in those day's you had to buy most of your own kit to survive in the field ( gloves, wet proofs, boots etc ) Absolute scandal that carried on until recently. As usual the bid went to the supplier who presented the lowest quote and sod the poor soldier who's life and comfort depended on it.

[@RiflemanMoore]

The pack is, most definitely the weakest point of the set. Just what the Mills company were thinking is beyond me as their previous designs had been far superior in terms of carrying a load on the back. Sadly, as you say British procurement was somewhat lacking through the latter half of the 20th century to say the least!

[@rorybrown9750]

@@RiflemanMoore You're right mate, the large pack straps would dig into your shoulders practically crippling you and if got down in the prone position it would wack you in the back of head, there wasn't even much room in it, absolute rubbish. Fortunately I was in the Recce platoon where we could customize our kit far more than you would of been able to in a rifle company. Bergens, German boots, civilian DPM wetproofs, leather ski gloves, all bought by ourselves just to stay warm and dry in the field and to keep on soldiering without going down with hypothermia.

[@rorybrown9750]

ps the only good bit of kit we had was the SLR we carried and the heavy duty pullover which was much in demand by the US forces stationed nearby in Berlin.

[@vincentbrooker3062]

Silvermans did a great trade, I can remember often going there to buy kit and I wasn’t the only one! In the field no two of us looked the same. I think the most common was to buy waterproofs to replace the poncho, next being boots. If you brought a Bergen you had to keep an eye on it to stop someone from another unit “ borrowing it”. Popular piece of kit!

[@richthompson1234]

Energa pouch got to be used for KFS.........way after the energa was dispensed with!!!

[@ke6ziu]

Our kit from the same time, was all nylon!

[@66kbm]

No Energa pouch?...Where was one meant to carry ones KFS?

[@RiflemanMoore]

As usual the top brass not paying attention to soldier's needs, clearly!

[@simonh6371]

Used to carry the round tube of 2 tone cam cream (not the issue toothpaste-type tube of just dogshit brown cream) in mine.

[@davidbrennan660]

Cold war warriors run screaming from the video!

[@RiflemanMoore]

Hah!

[@alanfaulkner6329]

The worst smock and trousers ever developed by anyone anywhere at anytime. Nice set of webbing though, a roller lock on front and plenty of elastic stitched about it and a good rub of both black and tan polish and you will be on the way to senior in no time.

[@RiflemanMoore]

I'd argue that point but I understand the hyperbole! Definitely not the best, at least in terms of quality of manufacutre.

[@muwuny]

Yeah, I've got a couple examples of 84 pattern smocks, loads of missing buttons and small tears. At least it's lightweight and quick drying though.

[@simonsignolet5632]

Noteworthy that they discontinued the Energa Pouch at a time when they were already planning to produce rifle grenade pouches for the PLCE set - which were discontinued for probably the SAME reason as the Energa! That said, have you ever seen the SIZE of an Energa grenade?! It's like a 4" mortar bomb shoved over the end of the SLR...

[@RiflemanMoore]

Yes! Quite the bit of kit but not the most practical. It's a fascinating piece of history in terms of efforts to give the infantryman more firepower.