British First Issue 1958 Pattern Web Equipment - 1960s

First issue British 1958 Pattern Web Equipment as used through the 1960s before the introduction of second issue components in the mid '60s.
Karkee Web 1958 Pattern page - www.karkeeweb.com/1958main.html

[@assatashakur981]

Thanks so much for this video. I bought the pack from a military surplus shop here in USA. I had no idea how to fasten it together has so many straps - this video was helpful in helping me set it up to be used for walking around the city or going to the beach. I think the one I have is the 1958 second pattern. It is a thick sturdy canvas will last another 50 years.

[@DevilbyMoonlight]

I remember when the '44 mugs were sort after kit as you could cook in them, that before the black aluminium ones with the removable lip protectors were available in the usual places...

[@CoonerABC]

Nice. I used 58pattern when I first joined I never knew there was a first addition. After training I dumped the kidney pouches in favor for two extra waterbottle pouches and a 44pattern waterbottle pouch, I also dumped the left ammo pouch for a four mag two pouch setup for 30rds 5.56 when the SA80 was introduced. The large pack, in the late 80's, was only issued in training with the GS Rucksack, on a radio frame, issued in parent units. However individuals found this to small and purchased larger Bergans until the next, offical, system came into play. Thanks for the insight.

[@RiflemanMoore]

Thanks for the personal account, always very interesting to hear! I know a plethora of different bergens seem to have been purchased in the '80s before the introduction of the PLCE bergen. Very interesting period in terms of kit personalisation.

[@hughhughp68]

I have a full unissued 58 pattern dated 1989. The large park is a little older as a friend in the Army sourced it for me. However I noticed the back pack is missing the lower metal clips to attach it to the Ammunition pouches. Would you have any Idea where I could source those ? Love your video series, I’m in the process of completing a m56 set. Which I was issued with years ago.

[@RiflemanMoore]

Possibly the cheapest way of getting the clips would be to butcher a poncho roll. Very glad you are enjoying the videos!

[@simonsignolet5632]

Very informative, thanks. Just a point, some components (as seen in your pack) of earlier '58 sets were two tone. Those first edition utility straps - I wish you luck. These were rare even at the end of the 1970s. I've been collecting Brit webbing since I was a kid - but *still* cannot get hold of matching 1st and 2nd edition '58 Amm pouches! First edition, as demoed; second without fibre stiffening in the lid? Third angled, same thickness, no pouch lifters? A month or so before PLCE conversion, I was issued the LAST edition of right side Amm pouch - no Energa pocket. I think made in 1988, marked "OWL" which I took to be CWL (Compton Webb Ltd). The MoD take their time to catch up with what's going on in the real world, sometimes... Some '44 components were still being made by authorised contractors in the late 1980s, especially the W/B pouch, I remember being surprised upon seeing the date of one pouch in stores. But perhaps it was a special contract for 5 AB Bde so they were made in very small numbers. The nylon waistbelt you mention sounds like the 1976 trials "pattern" - what a lot of shops/people call "58 Mk2". I need one of those plus a pack to complete my set.

[@RiflemanMoore]

+Simon Signolet I'll find a pair of early utility straps at some point, it'll just take a lot of rummaging! Second issue pouches are indeed the same but without the curved, stiffened sides to the lid. Finding mine took quite a bit of pound pile diving at shows. I actually still need the latest pouch modification as you describe.... The MoD take their time to catch up with the real world worryingly often I would say! The belt I am referring to isn't part of the trials set it's the mid-90s waist belt similar in pattern to the PLCE belt but with 58 Pattern keepers and buckles, it is sometimes seen with a '58 Pattern designation which seems to have been erroneously applied to some contracts. An example can be seen here; www.karkeeweb.com/patterns/1958/components/component_belts.html

[@Gillan1220]

How to put the rucksack into the webbing?

[@simonsignolet5632]

THANKYOU!!! I have a few of the 1965 W/Bs, one I still regularly use for bushcraft (with a S10 cap). For *YEARS*, I've been searching for a matching green mug! My search is now over. :-) Point to note, the older 1970s mugs don't fit onto the newer, 1990/2000-odd W/Bs. I have what I believe is the prototype box type W/Bs with it's mug. Both green. In storage, I've yet to try it in a mess tin. The W/B uses the same cap as on this type of W/B but the cap uses a nylon cord to attach it to the bottle rather than a retaining strap.

[@RiflemanMoore]

+Simon Signolet Interesting stuff, particularly that older cups won't fit on modern bottles, not something I'd tried. I'd love one of the trials box waterbottles myself, maybe one day!

[@tobermory8341]

@@RiflemanMoore The later model 58 Pattern water bottle was slightly enlarged which is why the mugs don't fit. I bought a new bottle and mug in 1978 and they are noticeably smaller than the 1980s versions. The earlier pattern mug also had a sharper bottom edge (which made it easier to stand on an uneven surface) and a high gloss finish which wasn't very tactical.

[@davidbrennan660]

Have you come across the fast release pouch releases that also had a Press stud the had to be released first before the tab could be pulled? I had a Poncho carrier that used them, they were of the first pattern, I can also remember a magazine pouch that also used that tab but it was too battered to collect... my 58 pattern webbing was sadly sold to pay bills a while back and I have no pictures.... just be aware of it, there be monsters.

[@RiflemanMoore]

The quick release plus press stud fastening was used on the trials equipment, not the first issue pattern, I have 1957 dated pack with one fitted.

[@kaynebartholomew2994]

I know early in the Confrontation with Indonesia, the Brits were using mainly 44 pattern kits but phasing to 58 pattern. I'm told that 44 pattern water bottle covers were still used with the 58 kit, but when was the complete transformation from 44 patt to 58 patt made? I'm guessing 63-64 but can't say for sure. I've just started my "journey" from US GI WWII for 1960s-70s British Cold War stuff.

[@RiflemanMoore]

+Reenactor Talk More the other way around in some cases, troops arriving in Brunei in '62 for example had full sets of '58 Pattern CEFO. Later you see troops going back to a mix of items, particularly the '44 Pattern haversack with '58 belt order as it was a useful size to carry 4 days rations. '44 Pattern (second issue components) were still being manufactured in the late '60s to early '70s and it was used in the jungle well into the '70s at least. The '44 Pattern water bottle was popular for wear with '58 pattern with whoever could get hold of one for a long time, right through the Falklands campaign and into the late '80s when PLCE appeared.

[@kaynebartholomew2994]

Rifleman Moore thank you! This was very informative!

[@RiflemanMoore]

+DogSoldier '44 Pattern was also general issue during the Korean War and was used in other theatres, particularly by airborne units (for example at Suez) it wasn't jungle issue only though it became more so after the introduction of '58 Pattern with the exception of individual components like the water bottle and pouch as you outlined. Interesting to know it was made as late as '86 though, not come across such late dated components.

[@RiflemanMoore]

+DogSoldier Indeed, "borrowing", a skill in which the British soldier is highly adept!

[@CoonerABC]

I had a 44pattern waterbottle pouch as late as 88, at this point they weren't issued and like rocking horse sh*t to find in surplus shops. A 58pattern bottle with a metal mug, with green tape on the edge to stop you burning your lip, was a perfect fit. You could buy black metal mugs with a plastic rim but they were carp..!