Ring continuity | Step One, two and three. (49)

Hi everyone, In this video I'm taking a look at Ring continuity and the problems that can occur if you don't carry out all 3 steps of the full test.
Ring main circuits or ring final circuits as they are both known as through the years, require some extra testing and a little more understanding of what's going on behind those various accessories when the cables are terminated.
My rambling through the three steps of Ring continuity follow closely with the on site guide and guidance note 3.
AS USUAL GUYS THIS VIDEO IS FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY AND NOT TO BE TAKEN AS ANY KIND OF TRAINING OR EDUCATIONAL PRESENTATION. AT ALL TIMES I AM IN FULL CONTROL OF THE INSTALLATION AND THERE IS NEVER ANY RISK TO PERSONS OR EQUIPMENT. ELECTRICITY SHOULD BE GIVEN THE FULL RESPECT IT DESERVES.
#continuity #ringcircuits #kewtech

[@knightstemplar8379]

Awesome content, no adverts, gimmicks, buy this that and the other using a specific code, just honest, helpful content.

[@calumclark1719]

Mans got a future as a lecturer very clear and explaining every aspect, great video for a apprentice to follow the steps, As for ring circuits I personally can see the plus side and down sides of them, most houses where I am working if they are a bungalow are two rings minimum which is over kill and every two up two down is 3 as a minimum this is great until someone adapts or adds to them especially i have come across a lot of folk adding multiple spurs from the DB let alone the sockets themselves, I think with new builds I personally depending on the size of build would advice one ring in the kitchen and possibly another if needs be and the rest to be radials,

[@JBE]

Appreciate the feedback Calum, if I pass on all I know everyone will end up a silly as me 🤣. I somehow feel like Britain won't be giving up on it's addiction to rings anytime soon?

[@calumclark1719]

@@JBE its integrated into the teaching at collage so will probably take a few generations to be phased out. the common usage of it seems to vary from place to place in the UK, it the north of Scotland its common as muck but in the central belt less so and in Hull well that was just whatever the builder felt like

[@hitsandgiggles2795]

A top video and really well explained. I'm a trainee spark thats not done much testing but your video makes sense and theres a methodical order so it can be repeated time and time again. Top video, thanks alot.

[@JBE]

@@hitsandgiggles2795 I'm glad it was some help to you and thanks for watching.

[@abscomm]

Great video, shows exactly why EICR's are necessary even if they seem pedantic. IMHO ring circuits are the worst things that were ever adopted and should be outlawed. They inherently allow for over current conditions on cables with no indication to the consumer that anything is wrong (if just one line conductor gets broken for example, then the ring can become unbalanced causing one leg to be overloaded). Add to that multiple extension cords and you have a fire just itching to break out.

[@MrChirish1]

Studying a C&G level 2 and really appreciate this this video it has made learning a lot better to understand!

[@JBE]

I'm glad you found it useful amongst all the rambling.

[@a1electrical2]

I install radials these days. 4mm radials tick the boxes. Even on a kitchen i will install separate 4mm circuits to split up the loads. I also always use rcbo's to free up space on the cu to allow this even on smaller size boards. Works well so far

[@rayc1503]

Smashing, I much rather prefer radials. Easier to trace faults test and there's less chance of broken continuity. A broken ring circuit can easily go undetected and effectively be used whilst being dangerously overloaded.

[@davidclarke2513]

I'm a recently retired industrial JIB GOLD CARD APPROVED Electrician of 50 years and I'm a great beleiver in ringmain circuits sorry if I refuse to call them final ring circuits,I think the modern domestic sparks is just a lazy bugger wanting an easier life ,even in the industrial sector they went over to radial circuits but because of the length of runs we were wiring them in 6mm it became bloody crazy ,I like the sockets with duel earth terminals where you split the cpcs one in each terminal so if you lose one cpc you always have a path to earth

[@n3ilvincent870]

Just love watching your videos everything is explained so clear, just a brilliant electrician

[@JBE]

Thank you so much for watching, hopefully they'll be some more content coming later in the year.

[@PerisAhmed-zu8ow]

Great contents to the points with fault finding :) , Hopefully more videos like that

[@AndyK.1]

I love rings as a home owner. So flexible. As long as I don’t have to test them!

[@aliahmadi3016]

Many thanks for your lovely information 😊

[@JBE]

I'm glad you found it helpful.

[@gbelectricks]

No matter how “carefully” you install and space sockets around a ring final circuit. One leg will always be prone to carrying a larger current than the other one. Imagine a kitchen ring with a large grid switch installed feeding low level appliances. (Dishwasher, washing machine, tumble drier, fridge/freezer etc) unless the grid is positioned at the exact midpoint of the ring one leg will take the brunt of the current for sustained periods, leading to premature ageing of certain conductors. Also there’s the issue of overloading individual legs of the circuit due to loose or broken connections, this can be the case for years and years and unless the homeowner has regular eicr’s this will go undetected. Great video and a great explanation🙏👍

[@JBE]

Agreed Daddy B 👍. What I've done in the past is run a radial for sockets on the worktop to be used by any appliance you would normally have on a kitchen worktop. Then ran another radial for fixed appliances that will always be connected, fridge, freezer, washer, dishwasher and put them in accessible locations for isolation.

[@loveartfe6079]

Wow,, tnks for sharing your video .. tnks for the information

[@davidtimperley4241]

Excellent description of basic ring circuit testing

[@hardave17]

Fantastic timepiece. I had the Casio TV remote watch and lets say Dixons never found out who would turn off their TV's or leave them on full blast.

[@JBE]

I did exactly the same in Manchester Arndale 🤣.

[@hardave17]

@@JBE "Apparently" someone did the screens at an airport so a few people missed their flight......

[@teed1]

Thank you for simple and great explanation for a new electrician student:)

[@JBE]

Much appreciated and thanks for watching 👍🏻

[@johnflower8648]

Very well explained for the first time.

[@anthonysykes542]

I've dropped you a sub, you was recommended on one of Dave Savery's videos. A very good guide with thorough explanation, brings back memories of my college days and you'd be a fab tutor. Keep up the good work and content.

[@JBE]

Thank you much appreciated, if it helps just one person understand things a little clearer then that'll do me. We had nothing like this KZbin stuff back when I was trying to get into the industry.

[@ashvanbro9329]

Brilliant video mate

[@JBE]

Thanks for watching 👀 👍🏻

[@markhorton8578]

Very nice, I shall be adding a link to this in my teaching material.

[@garylatto4191]

Good to see you back mate, always worth the watch cheers 👍👍

[@allahdittababu4802]

Your good at explaining this would be great to have more testing videos for begginers

[@neilvincent9530]

Love watching your videos everything is explained so clearly top job

[@JBE]

Glad you could understand my ramblings. What are your thoughts on ring circuits?

[@timfanning5309]

Good to see you back James . Rings r a pain in the arse especially when twisted together & rammed into a CU looking like a bird nest . 4mm radial for me or a limited number of sockets on 2.5 , keep it simple !

[@JBE]

I kind of agree with you, although I much prefer running a 20amp radial in 2.5, especially if there's nothing heavy hanging off it? Cheers for watching 👀 👍🏻

[@APSuk2]

Great video, would love to see more testing videos!

[@JBE]

Getting round to doing a bit on the rig now.

[@APSuk2]

@@JBE Cannot wait!

[@mohamedsiadabdille7631]

Thanks J Beck for time is really worth to watch and Excellent explaininig the fault which is not easy to notice without carrying out testing, good work J Beck

[@JBE]

Glad you liked it, faults on rings are tricky but made easier if you keep to a simple testing method. Cheers for watching 👀 👍🏻

[@labelectrical]

Glad to see you back. Great video as always 👍

[@SJM689]

Another great video mate. Glad too see you back. Rings are fine until some diy'er does some DIY and breaks the ring. I personally wire in radials except the kitchen.

[@JBE]

Cheers, yeah broken rings aren't fun especially when testing and you have to go looking for the faults.

[@SJM689]

@@JBE I've lost track the amount of EICRs I have done with a broken ring or a radial coming out a 32amp......not fun at all when you have to go hunting

[@paulgilbert9156]

nice to you back jb ,i need cheering up, wife was murdered by the nhs 22nd february 2021 aged 56

[@themagicsponge]

Great video! Wish you were my tutor at college! Be interesting to see you carry out Insulation Resistance testing. Cheers!

[@AndyK.1]

Welcome back 😆

[@djb774]

Correctly installed and maintained rings are fine!

[@Cablesmith]

Good video Jimmy Beckett 👌🏼 I might try this myself when I finish wiring a ring 😃

[@JBE]

You still working on my patch?

[@Cablesmith]

@@JBE no mate, we don’t mess about 👌🏼 hopefully never again I got a nosebleed with the altitude 😂

[@JBE]

@@Cablesmith 🤣🤣🤣 Some of the houses up here are literally made of rocks, bloody nightmare to sink a box into.

[@Cablesmith]

@@JBE yep I figured once I started ! it seemed all 4 walls were different but one of them was stone 😩

[@danf6491]

Great video 👏. Prefer to fit, test and fault find on radial circuits. It's far quicker and less chance of unknown hidden faults. Ring okay for a kitchen but these days there is no need . All major appliances are usualy on there own dedicated radials these days so no real reason to use a ring . Also you can even splt the kitchen Into 2 radials left and right so if there is a fault they are not without power across the full kitchen. Only place I sometimes prefer a ring is larger utility room but usualy a last resort. What's your thought on hybrid rings/radial, have you came across many?

[@alanmarriott9216]

So if your readings on step 2 and 3 are slightly higher than expected what would cause that and how would you rectify it?

[@quadrantheatingelectricspl2907]

Great video, can you do other tests thanks

[@ef7480]

After all this time I still can't work out how a conductor can show continuity if its swapped over in a fitting. Surely you would get an open circuit on a ring? in stage 1? (9:55)

[@JBE]

No, because if the r1 conductor is connected in any terminal behind a socket, it will show continuity or the r1 ring. You could wire 9 sockets up perfectly, but behind the 10th socket they could all be connected via a Wago connector and you will still get a reading indicating a ring on the r1 conductor.

[@HeathenGeek]

and what time do you call this? 🙂 for ring circuits: it's just the way it's always been done, since before I was born anyway. So if you want to do this work, you just have to work with them all the time. Would there be much difference in price between doing a ring and using 4mmsq on a 32A radial? Cause if it was more cost effective, that would get rid of them overnight.

[@mathman0101]

What’s the copper cable prices looking like in Blighty mate? Prices here in USA are just gone crazy 3-4 times what they were a year ago. Rockers are rocking🤣 headbangers rule. Waiting for Cablesmith to enter the discussion.

[@JBE]

Haha yeah cable prices are slowly rising but not as much as timber 😬.

[@Cablesmith]

Haha I was about to chirp up here before I even finished reading your comment 🤦🏻‍♂️ you can read me like a book math As for cable prices the cheapest 2.5mm 100M drum is touching £70 !! Wasn’t too long ago it was £43 😩

[@ramzg5402]

We always have to turn ring into radial.

[@RichardArblaster]

Great video James 😎

[@JBE]

Thank you Richard 🤩

[@gmeadowcroft84]

Great vid mate, please don’t take this as criticism it’s really a question. When I did my 2391 I was taught to do end to end on all 3 terminals. Then do an R1+R2 at all sockets, should I be interlinking R1+Rn and testing all sockets as you did in the vid as well as I haven’t due to the way I have been taught.The fault would have shown still on just an R1+R2 but my question is should I still be testing R1+Rn as good practice?

[@stupot_64]

You don't need to record R1+Rn readings but if you have time it's a good test to make sure you're happy everything is safe. Belts and braces.

[@gmeadowcroft84]

@@stupot_64 thx Stuart, I just want to make sure I’m doing everything I can as I believe EICRs are so important, and also to be the best I can be

[@stupot_64]

@@gmeadowcroft84 There are minimums required on a EICR but no maximum. For example you don't need to remove all accessories unless you start to find issues then you would investigate all of them. After a while you'll get a feeling whether a property will fly through or will be a POS and require extensive checking.

[@gmeadowcroft84]

@@stupot_64 I always state to my customer I’ll remove a minimum of 10% but that’s if they can prove that the installation has been subject to regular testing. If it hasn’t been regular tested i will increase that up to 50% and obviously if my spidey seance is tingling I’ll do more, or what I think is needed.

[@JBE]

This 3 step test is one of the first tests to carry out at initial verification when installing a brand new circuit, Or adding onto the original ring.

[@leighbrowne8863]

Personally, I dislike RFCs for the simple reason that people over the years add and mess around wit them. I have a job on Monday we’re someone has made a right mess of the whole house ring.. I found the cables in separate MCBs (both 32A) and half the sockets not working with the other half displaying a line and neutral reverse fault. No continuity on anything, but a new kitchen fitted (8 months old). After some digging I found a break in the line conductor at the back of a socket but still nothing on the neutral and CPC. There is a junction box somewhere under the floor or in a wall which I need to find as there is old colours and new colours cable with not obvious joint. I like a challenge but this job has already had an afternoon off me and I’ve now cleared a whole day to get to the bottom of it! Radials are so much easier to work on and at this rate, I might be putting a new one in!

[@JBE]

I hear you Leigh, I recently came across a radial circuit that had been wired in the shape of the letter P. Basically "someone" had taken a leg from the end socket on the radial, added 3 sockets to it and then returned it back to another socket, thus having 3 conductors of line, neutral and cpc at a socket. It took me a morning to sort out but Basically I just left the cables out ( where he had connected to another socket ) and it turned back into a radial.

[@leighbrowne8863]

@@JBE it is amazing what people will do. I have presented the customer with the evidence of a fault and a solution to fix it to which they have said ^But it works?* I had one customer recently who said I don’t want you to fix it as it works and that the electrician who did the work originally said its fine? A family friend apparently

[@westinthewest]

@@JBE My understanding is that it's ok to have interconnections or loops in a radial circuit.

[@RichardArblaster]

I remember someone saying it was due to a copper shortage after WW2

[@elminster8149]

Yup, I think it was one of DSE's vids.

[@AndyK.1]

Like everyone

[@JBE]

Do you think we still need ring circuits these days Richard?

[@RichardArblaster]

@@JBE Hi James, long time no see. I've now decided to take a step back from becoming a trainee spark. However I suppose it would come down to the costs, the ease of install and the prospect of making future fault finding easier to do. In my mind it would be easier to use radials, then you know potentially each room is on it's own radial circuit so you know exactly without too much faffing around where the fault is. Also would it mitigate the risk of the whole house being plunged into darkness if a breaker trips?

[@JBE]

@@RichardArblaster For the kind of things we plug in today, a 20 amp radial circuit should be ample enough. I'm talking about TVs, smart devices, chargers, LED lamps and the odd Hi-Fi system. It might be a bit different in the kitchen with toasters, kettles, ovens, microwaves and tumble dryers on, all at the same time? But certainly using an RCBO would avoid being plunged into a black out, the next time you ram a knife into the toaster to get your over cooked bagel out. What's happened to your fledgling electrical career then Richard?

[@YinWhoo-zx2sz]

You don't need to rewire just downrate the circuit. EICR's are not about safety they're about making money otherwise they'd be mandatory in homeowners homes too. The rental sector is easy pickings for cowboy electricians.