RING MODS FOR MORE POWER!

AN INSIDE LOOK AT HOW TO MODIFY YOUR OIL RINGS TO DECREASE ROTATIONAL DRAG AND ALLOWS FOR PROPER CRANKCASE VENTING WHEN USING VACUUM PUMPS OR CRANKCASE EVACUATION.
INITIAL VIDEO SHOWS A "LOOSENED" 302-347 EXHIBIT IMPRESSIVE THROTTLE RESPONSE ON THE RUN UP STAND.
11.5 COMPRESSION WITH GT40 CAST IRON HEADS TOPPED OFF BY A VICTOR JR. TOPPED OFF WITH A 650 D.P. HOLLEY.
Obtw, I get numerous requests for technical advice and if interested, tex me @ 626 203 2712. Half hour to 1 hour+ rates are available. Most calls go over as posted and it is ok. US Pacific time zone.

[@ElvinLeadfoot]

Fred Catlin taught us the same thing. Cast Iron head holds in the heat of combustion. Ole Fred was a Buick 455 champion in Indiana. He had 445 Buicks with chrome plated cylinder bores like Porsche and Mercedes. Running Quadrajet Carbs too.

[@markcrockford9679]

hi Ben , I remember Art Lingenfelter talking about rotational drag 20 years ago and your talk just helped me put together what you were both talking about, once again hats off to you Mr Alemeida, that is some serious of the shelf thinking an I am most impressed and I am loving your real world approach, thankyou so much for sharing, It would be great to see you here in Australia for the summernats one year I think you would enjoy it very much

[@benalamedaracing2765]

I wish to come down for sure and check out the Aussie racing down under! I noticed a lot of hard core blue blooded (Ford) racers over there.

[@Jvcomet]

Your knowledge of all the components to make power is awesome. Thanks for sharing it with us all. 👍

[@ElvinLeadfoot]

Fast Fox Bodies Mr. Ben… Insanely Fast Fox Bodies:) We had a Mustang Club Back in the day - early 1990’s Southern Indiana

[@user-id9ft8qv4x]

Thanks for knowledge!

[@JG-kv4oi]

Excellent content, Thankyou! Jerry

[@dannychiguina3962]

Absolutely precious greater strokes

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Thank you for supporting my channel!

[@dannychiguina3962]

Great Tip's Thank you guys keep Hot Rodding

[@FiteTheGoodFight]

This is great information!

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Thank you.

[@terrysibley9636]

Thanks Ben, the bottom end of 311 is going together this weekend

[@benalamedaracing2765]

That should be impressive for power and torque!

[@Trobertsdsgmach1]

Thank you sir!

[@mikes.1882]

Mr Ben. Just read through the comments. Sir, you ARE the Man!!!!!!

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Thanks Mike!

[@trailerparkcryptoking5213]

Great info! Helping out us backyard hacks big time!

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Thanks!

[@mr.x1510]

Crisp, no brainer

[@HDDREAMIN]

Really enjoying the content. I will transfer this knowledge to the HD twincam. Interesting for sure. Just put together a 124 last year and did my heads 2.10I and 1.615E going to try and get more power and cam switch. Ill let you know how it goes! Current at 153hp 132tq

[@kevinkelley3657]

A vacuum pump works because it pulls the combustion gasses out of the space between the first and second ring, and if the 3rd ring is too tight, I can see how the vacuum pump would have little effect. Your videos make me think, and I appreciate that.

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Thanks Kevin!

[@dannychiguina3962]

Awesome,....... I appreciate that Sir

[@dannychiguina3962]

Much ablie

[@dannychiguina3962]

Will do thank you Sir like wise be safe

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Thanks for supporting my channel Danny.

[@michaelgiglio1571]

Gee your engine are strong, realy inpressed Ben 😱

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Thanks Michael and sometimes a responsive engine can beat an engine with slightly more power! Seen it many times.

[@michaelgiglio1571]

@@benalamedaracing2765 interesting.

[@bassettraceengines]

Thank you for sharing

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Thanks for your support of my channel Bassett!

[@bobcuomo5122]

Thank you Mr Alameda......Best engine videos on You Tube !!!

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Thanks Bob as usual you are great supporting my channel!///// Race safe and stay healthy from this covid stuff and that monkey pox thing! lol

[@vrm86gt]

I will have to try the oil ring mod on my next build or the next time my 349 is apart!

[@orozcoracing.7450]

greetings Ben Alameda, as always your videos are very useful for me and for many. I am in the construction of a 302 and curiously when assembling the oil rings I realized, and I had already noticed before, that the tension of the expander was very high, and I dared to make the same modification by bending the ends of the expander, in I actually bent more than you did in the video, so much so that by installing just the oil rings I could push the piston in with a little effort without having to use the ring compressor. I can now turn the crankshaft with very little effort.

[@benalamedaracing2765]

I have done as much as you did and as long as it is not smoking or using oil you are good to go! More power for you that's for sure.

[@briantayes2418]

Can you update us on how it worked out? This would be excellent info!

[@orozcoracing.7450]

@@briantayes2418 It worked very well, it doesn't smoke and you can feel that when it's on at idle you accelerate it and it revs easily when you quickly release the accelerator, the rpm is established without going down wanting to turn off. I haven't timed the 1/4 mile yet because I'm working on the rear suspension.

[@mikes.1882]

Back when low tension oil rings were breaking into the market and very expensive, I reduced the stock oil rings by 3/8's of an inch. 351 Cleveland 2v with 4bl intake 700 dbl pumper flat top .038 quench clearance 214/224 at .050. 10 sl advanced 5 This motor ran good

[@sc358.]

What did you use glass and figure eights? And what about side clearance - how does a 0.30" ring work with a 5/64 land?

[@findtherightbeat]

Hope you can do a video on your break-in method! 🙏

[@benalamedaracing2765]

I do have a video from years ago and I will try to post it ASAP and it is very interesting video and I get a lot of responses on it.

[@findtherightbeat]

@@benalamedaracing2765 Thank you, Ben! Looking forward to watching it :)

[@carlking3964]

IV'E LEARNED ALOT AGAIN FROM THIS VIDIO BEN, MATTER OF FACT, IV'E LEARNED ALOT. WISH I KNEW THESE THINGS BACK 45 YEARS AGO LOL I WOULD'NT HAVE HAD TO BUILD 13 PONCHO MOTORS FOR MY 66 GOAT. YEP, 13 OF THEM!! I HAVE TO SAY THOUGH, I WAS ONE OF THE BEST IN SO.ILL. BUILDING A PONTIAC, JUST YOUNG AND DIDN'T HAVE QWIGHT ENOUGH MONEY TO MAKE THEM STAY TOGETHER. MY FIRST WAS A 389 THAT DINOED AT 685 TO THT GROUND. THE FIRST TIME I RAN IT AFTER BREAK IN, I SCATTERED IT. SO 12 MORE BUILDS, BIGGER AND BETTER. GOT TIRED OF THAT AND WENT TO BUILDING SMALLBLOCK CHEVIES WITH GREAT RESULTS, THEY HELD TOGETHER BETTER AND A.L.O.T. LIGHTER! BUT YOU GOT ME WANTING BAD TO BUILD ANOTHER PONCHO NOW LOL 😁 LOOKS LIKE A TRIPP TO BUTLER PERFOMANCE 😁

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Thank you for watching!

[@rogerpaulll1451]

second time ive watched this one that is a huge differences im trying a 396 sbc i ll try this mod i have evac

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Thanks for watching and please follow my videos for more info!

[@FiteTheGoodFight]

I wonder if Total Seal gapless rings would make any further improvements on these methods. Sounds like on N/A applications, gapless top rings might inprove the seal even further without any additional fiction losses, according to what the company says. For boosted applications, gapless rings have to be in the second ring position, so that might not be as beneficial.

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Second for boosted applications I feel will do more harm than good. I feel a very good oil control ring is key to controlling any introduction of oil inside the cylinder which can be a death knell for boosted engines.

[@wayneireland4802]

Thanks for sharing your experience mr alameda.and yes 347 sound mad crisp throttle response. What's your opion on intakes manifold on 6 or 8 when comes to cylinder distribution.peace

[@benalamedaracing2765]

So far I do not have any issues on distribution but on the 1-3 firing order I keep a close watch on cyl.#7 where it tends to run leaner than the other cylinder. I do not run the 1-5 on factory 2 bolt blocks but with aftermarket 4 bolt the 1-5 does not seem to give me any concern even at very high rpms.

[@ts302]

Great food for thought Mr. Alameda! The established vacuum pump theory was to evacuate crankcase blowby getting past the piston rings. If I'm understanding your theory, your method 'vacuums' the exhaust gases trapped between the top/second rings that would otherwise contaminate the fresh intake A/F mixture, resulting in a better combustion burn. In other words, the increased HP when running a vacuum pump was not necessarily from the negative crankcase atmosphere but from the uncontaminated intake charge. Will this method work with the newer thin ring packs? And what are the piston ring gaps with & without the second ring? Thank you!

[@benalamedaracing2765]

The top ring gap requirements do not change and as I recommended on one the questions above, try using a "gapless" top ring and I feel this will be the best scenario with or without second ring. I prefer a thinner ring because it seems to conform better to a distorting cylinder bore than a thick 1/16 ring!

[@ElvinLeadfoot]

Ben I have two different 4.6 2V engine. A 2002 with 192k And a 2006 with 120k The 2002 is a lot better running engine. And I’ll guarantee it’s because of the ring pack. The 2002 runs cooler too.

[@davidfawcett7861]

Hi Ben, awesome channel, just subscribed! I have a similar set up to this 347 but with World Products Windsor SR iron heads - what power did you make? Thanks, Dave

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Yours should make more than this combination I had with GT40's. If I recall it has been so long this one here made 450hp or a little over @ the flywheel. One thing is that it had so much torque and felt a lot more powerful but basically very responsive and is a stoplight bandit for sure!

[@chestrockwell8328]

Hello Ben, I recall you mentioning ring removal and modification in one of your previous videos, thanks for going into more detail. Would you recommend either of these "tricks" for a road race/track day car that sees some street use?

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Absolutely you can do this specially if your engine has some kind of vacuum pump relieving the pressure of the crankcase! The pressure in the pan is also below the top ring and if you can pull those out of there and vent it out the battle is already won as far as trying to get more power out of your engine! In fact it is best to run a "gapless top ring" which I will follow up on when you removed the second ring or with it on works either way!

[@chestrockwell8328]

@@benalamedaracing2765 Thanks Ben, and I'm glad you mentioned using a gapless top ring when going with no second ring. During your video I was thinking to myself ...hmmm wonder if using a gapless top ring is of benefit in this situation. Take care, looking forward to whatever your next video will be.

[@alltherpm]

Wow lots to learn here, with oil ring mod, do u need to run a vacume pump, or will a pcv b fine

[@benalamedaracing2765]

If you can run a vacuum pump I would do it for sure! Pcv valve will be better than nothing combined with an open element breather on one side.

[@MattD01]

What about lateral gas ports? Does this also help and/or is it worth doing? BTW I've Ben binge watching your videos for a couple weeks, and I appreciate all the info! I'm wanting to build a 396 sbc stroker. So I'm trying to learn all the info I can

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Lateral gas ports helps specially with street driven cars which might accumulate some carbon blockage with the vertical version! The only way you can prevent this if the quench is so tight that anything blocking it will get blown off by the quench proximity and keeps it open! Remember if you have an effective quench clearance there will hardly be much carbon buildup in these areas.

[@sc358.]

​@@benalamedaracing2765have you ever modified stock or replacement pistons for lateral gas ports (such as in a class that specifies those types as a rule)? And if so, how do you address land flatness- any practical diy way? And 😂 no second ring! Haven't thought of that with these mile wide 5/64 applications. As another commenter mentioned the gapless may be interesting in that application. I might just try it with a refresh of my first engine I ever built 18 years ago at 14, it's due for a refresh. 383 still runs, many street miles and 2 dirt track seasons. Only coming apart because someone else checked the bearings and didn't seal it up right. The thing went forever without leaking 🤦‍♂️ A comparison of gapless top no second vs normal barrel face and napier 2nd would be interesting for classes that require 5/64. I'll likely just go 1mm or less on others. Absolutely correct on 2nd gap larger 👍

[@joe-hp4nk]

Are gapless rings worth it? Thanks.

[@AndryshakGarage]

Will the second ring delete, oil control ring modify and backwards pistons be safe to do on a weekend driver 351w 408 stroker. 95 F-250 single cab. I know you talked about the gap and blow by residue. However in other videos you mentioned talking off the second ring an didn't say anything about the gap and residue. These videos are great. Do you have T-shirts or stickers for sale.

[@benalamedaracing2765]

If you have no combustion residue below the top ring you are all good! I suggest doing the same thing with the top ring gap and not widen or tighten them. Use them as normal like it had the second ring in it when you deleted it! If the engine has some miles I suggest using a heavier weight oil with the second ring delete.

[@mistersniffer6838]

So, setting up my rings will pull the front end off the ground? Nice, I am doing that right away, lol :)

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Everything helps and let us not overlook even the simplest of things and how it all comes together as a total package of tricks! lol

[@mistersniffer6838]

@@benalamedaracing2765 - Oh, I know, just kidding. Its a tough choice for a gear head to decide between longevity and max performance, unless one has deep pockets, and, or, is their only life.

[@HDDREAMIN]

I did notice how big and the tension of the napier ring butto see this??

[@Backfire10]

Did these mods to my cleveland back in the early 90. Good stuff. I was able to pull through at 8.5 lbs of drag. That said, and regarding the 2nd ring, is it a good idea to drill a small hole in the piston in the back side of the 2nd ring ? Would this help at all, or bad idea ? Thank you Sir.

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Wes, leave the 2nd ring as an oil control ring because trying to contain combustion pressure with it will just give you more issue to have a negative impact on power. Trapped gases between the top and 2nd rings will unseat the top ring loosing sealability big time! Keep the 2nd loose as far as the ring gaps so that a pcv valve, breathers on the valve cover or a vacuum pump can easily pull the gases from that general areas!

[@sc358.]

Backfire10 your oil control has the holes. If you open up that top oil ring to whatever your second is (or would be in the case you removed it), then that should help any trapped gasses to exit towards the inside of the piston. I don't know regarding holes in the 2nd without running that ring (because I've never done it) but I'd assume in the event you had piston oilers that you may have some oil control issues 🤷‍♂️ but think the holes in the oil land would suffice

[@michaelgiglio1571]

Ben, is it safe to use a expanding molly top ring or would you prefer stainless,, i without a second ring. Iv always wondered if the rings suport or dampen the piston. Mick

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Depends if you are NA or nitrous/boosted will dictate your top ring material. I prefer a zero gap top ring if at all available for your piston ring width.

[@michaelgiglio1571]

Ben, Can this be done with a expanding molly top ring or is it best to use a full symmetrical ring to support the top of the piston from rattle. Mick.

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Just about anything will work as long as the oil control rings is not modified too much and will not properly control the oil.

[@richy7782]

There is a company that sell low tension oil ring pack. They measure from 0.187 @ 20lbs I believe is stock, down to 0.118 @ 11 lbs and one that is 0.078 @ 8 lbs. I think it was sold by Total seal. Ben have you tried any of these ? Also wondering if you have a guess on the time a engine would last running with a single top ring ? Thanks again !!!

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Lasting with a top ring is not an issue because the wear pattern stays the same with or without a second ring. Concern is its ability to control oil consumption specially when running zero or very light oils.

[@vrm86gt]

Ben quick question, my pistons use a 1.2, 1.2 (napier 2nd) 3.0mm oil control rings, is there still worthwhile benefit modifying the expander ring on the 3mm ring package?

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Well it depends if the oil control rings are standard or heavy tension type. Consult with the manufacturer whatever part number you have and generally lighter oil control rings will require a vacuum pump and a standard tension oil rings will function normally but of course with additional drag on the reciprocating mass.

[@vrm86gt]

@@benalamedaracing2765 these are Hastings Performance brand ring pack, they say standard tension?

[@mikedoty8149]

you have a lot of info you should rite some books on defernt things i have lernd a lot of stuff.

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Thanks and please spread the channel!

[@ryandaly9831]

Hey Ben, what would you suggest for a carb on a 347 with AFR 185cc heads, solid roller cam, duration at .050 248 Int, 252 Exh, .650 intake lift and 640 exhaust, 108 lobe sep. Also, how much power do you get not using the second ring and just bending the end tabs on the oil ring expander? Is it worth it for a street strip motor? Can you get away with dual breathers on your valve covers or will you need a vacuum pump? With the rings, are you using file fit and just a generic gap? Thank you for sharing your wisdom.

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Ryan, it is ok to run dual breathers at least it will vent real good, How much compression are you running and how heavy/light the car? Second ring delete is worth it if you are trying to get as much power as possible. It is strip worthy by all means and would do it if your ring pack is thick like a 1/16 first and second. Gap does not change for the top ring even without the second so follow the recommendation by the piston and ring manufacturer.

[@ryandaly9831]

@@benalamedaracing2765 Thank your for the reply Ben, I have JE pistons with 1/16 rings. Do you use a file fit rings or can you just use good non file fit rings? Do you have any suggestions for a carb size for my engine or who to talk to?

[@benalamedaracing2765]

@@ryandaly9831, I use file fit rings all the time for the serious builds. What state are you at? I have a carb guy here on the West Coast with a good reputation and I just do not know if he makes it for E85. If you run straight gasoline I use the black Holley HP series and run it many times with success.

[@ryandaly9831]

​@@benalamedaracing2765 Hey Ben, I am collecting parts for the build, I have 90% of everything, I was just wondering if you had advice on a carb size for the cam specs and head size for the combo, it also has a Vic Jr intake with 2" spacer, the cam spec and head size were in my original question. I was thinking possibly 780cfm Holley? I have a 1987 LX Mustang that the engine is going in, has a C4 with reverse manual shift kit, 4000 stall convertor with 8.8 diff with 4:10 gears. It will be a street/strip car, I know it will be bit wild for street but I had seen you mention the second ring delete before and thought of maybe giving it a try when I go to assemble. What do you use for ring gap location on the pistons for the top rings and oil scrapers when you do the second ring delete? I am really serious of trying this! Once again thank you for sharing your knowledge, most appreciated!

[@benalamedaracing2765]

@@ryandaly9831 Not knowing your piston type or configuration go to see if they make zero gap top ring and go with that! It seems to work very well with a second ring delete so I would use that if possible. If not just go with the standard recommendation by the manufacturer and it will not be any different. I have run the down leg booster 780cfm 3310 version with vacuum secondaries. Good luck!

[@stuartwall8212]

Ben, I am experimenting with 2v open chamber heads on a 302. I am going to modify 351w pistons and run them .100 out of the hole to get some compression. I think I could get as much as 11.5:1 out of it. My question is this....If I go 11.5 static and it doesnt like it...because what I do doesnt have proper quench, How many degrees of cam retardation might fix it? LOL, I am not in any way asking for a guarantee of anything; just would like a guess from someone who tries stuff. Honestly, I want to build something out of humble parts that combine for an un-expected and low cost result. I wont be heartbroken if it fails.

[@benalamedaracing2765]

.100 out of the hole will be a bit much and wonder if you can find a head gasket to take up that space? Also your valve reliefs will be that much closer and here comes trouble! I found out years ago a .600 lift on a 3 or 4 inch stroke is about max you can run and I be this combination will hit at perhaps a little over .500 lift. Be careful...

[@sc358.]

​@@benalamedaracing2765think I recall you saying 0.038" piston to head clearance. Is that with 2618 pistons? I've ran 0.034" with no issues but on cast applications with less wall clearance. Haven't yet slowly decreased until they kissed with 2618s

[@lockedinstreetracing6005]

Hey brother I have a ? I have a fourth gen Camaro with a aftermarket 427 solid roller with a 2 speed rossler with lockup I run methanol my engine is 12/1 compression and it has a tkm hydraulic roller cam shaft and aluminum profiler heads it has a forced inductions 107 I’m thinking it will make around 1800 to 2000 horsepower I’m thinking of wanting to run some nitro with my methanol would you happen to know a good mix I use to run m5 for a little while but it seemed to be happier on methanol m1 any advice would be helpful thankyou of I do run a Holly dominator and msd 600 with a Davis profiler so I can get and I have plenty of data.

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Call or get in touch with a company named "Pro-Blend" and they have additives for whatever fuel you are running. It would be nice if your compression is a little bit higher than 12.1 perhaps bring it to 13-13.5 would gain you more hp! Some of my friends do spike their methanol with a little nitro and you have to be precise as to what percentage and how much fuel is there in the tank! Obtw, did you state you are boosting with a blower? Then your compression should be safe @ 12.1.

[@lockedinstreetracing6005]

@@benalamedaracing2765 thank you so much and I’m running one single turbo it’s a forced inductions 107 I’ve heard great things on the nitro mix that I want to try it the turbo is supposed to be good for 2000 horsepower and up it’s one of those billet center sections I’m just trying to get ahead of the game cause there is some really fast cars out there now and I appreciate it brother.

[@mistersniffer6838]

Have you done a dyno test on this theory??

[@benalamedaracing2765]

A dyno test does great service but what it does not show is how fast an engine actually accelerates at the racetrack! There are instances like when you install a longer or shorter rod, the dyno does not see this and will probably show similar horsepower @ peak rpms but when at a race course or short oval track. The shorter rod will pull stronger on exit of a turn and will accelerate much faster! Same here but I am sure it will show a difference and lots depending on how much you loosened your oil rings or how much your second ring actually dragged the engine down. Hope that is clearer...

[@mistersniffer6838]

@@benalamedaracing2765 - I get your theory, I just thought it would show up on a dyno, as in HP drag loss, and if so, how much. Interesting.

[@sc358.]

​@@benalamedaracing2765no luck using different acceleration rates for that (how much it deviates from standard rate and same with the change - rotating mass or anything else that affects acceleration)?

[@piercer2]

Why talk about static compression?

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Static compression is good for referencing what eventually your goals will be and not knowing it is starting off blind...

[@burroaks7]

cam and valive tiiing have a irect realitoin....lioft and duration and effect on dynamic completion ratio....which you have omitted ....

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Dynamic completion ratio. Ok. I got it.

[@burroaks7]

resistance to knock using a sensor is exellent.....

[@benalamedaracing2765]

And if you have any kind of vibration from brackets and accessories it will trigger a false signal!!! Been there done that.

[@burroaks7]

you need to understand thermoudynacmice and genera;l air flow and the mass of said air that is flwoing at ":x" rate............

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Ok.

[@burroaks7]

fuel burn and octaine ratings need more infor for your subjects......also varying conditions on what the combustion chambers are traction upon,,,,,,, given said load contion spark timing fuel ration and general static combustion ratio at given speed\load..... fully considering dynamic facots..... as valve timing dring given compression and or other 3 strokes.... valve timing the wweirhg tof said given incoming air charge...... youre not stupoid but there is alot more going onn than you realize.....

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Ok, perhaps you should open your own channel because I see you have an engineering mindset without a diploma. I do have several perhaps you want to know what they are?

[@burroaks7]

LMFAO NO MENTION OF WHAT FUEL IS USED NOR SAID INGNITON TIMING.................

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Regardless of the fuel used I mentioned as long as the burn maximum rate is done by 15*ATDC we are good. Maximum exerted pressure 5-10* ATDC or maybe you have a better explanation?

[@burroaks7]

your full understanding of 4 stoke internal combustion motors power transfer is not fully understood......... by a LONG SHOT!!!! You def understand and know your shit.....but there are more "physic" rules hat are goin on in the 4 stroke ice motor.... it starts with "what exactly do you what your engine to do!"

[@burroaks7]

then build from there....

[@benalamedaracing2765]

Ok I am listening to you and if you are starting a conversation with using the word "motor" I see where you are coming from. Engine is the proper definition and motor is an electrically driven device. So if we really get technical as you seem to be alluding to, let us start with the accurate definition so we are very very clear.

[@sc358.]

🍿😅