"Rings don't matter" is the worst take in basketball - Barbershop talk (Episode 6)

[@Dom2K]

My AC is broken and I'm in Florida, so I'm not streaming until that's fixed cause my PC gets way too hot as is. Music from: spoti.fi/2NFxGB4 Business email: [e-mail] Patreon: patreon.com/dom2k16 Facebook: facebook.com/dom2k16 Twitter: twitter.com/dom_2k Instagram: instagram.com/dom_2k Snapchat: Dom_2k

[@LebronJames-pk4yf]

Dom Rings 💍 only matter if My Leking 👑 James wins it....

[@JoshuaALockhart]

Dom dang i know that sucks

[@TheL8Great2]

Dom Boy it's TOO hot down here vro

[@dethkillerspiral]

Mangekyo

[@JoshuaALockhart]

The SportsBook ???

[@pranavsattiraju]

This actually kind of makes me think of Dirk if Dirk had 3-5 championships he would be in our top 10s

[@majinant2425]

Steelers Fan #HereWeGo oh yea he has everything else like the mvp and points so add about 2 more rings dirk goes from a top 20 player to top 10

[@smacker595]

I am from Germany and i am so sad that he has just that one ring.. Imagine playing him with another top player in his prime.. He is my reason why I watch the nba today (:

[@Ben-wh4ci]

Nope, if he had more rings he would have better players around him which make him not as good.

[@Ben-wh4ci]

He would have more rings if he was a better player or on a better team

[@klip8726]

i think hed take tim duncans place

[@jamesburgess2k]

I think the rings conversation is a "new school" way of thought. Decades ago, winning a ring was based solely on your ability (& your GM's team building ability). Now, players have the biggest freedom to move around to go get a ring in a bigger situation, making it easier than say in the 80s or 90s. Were the guys back then too loyal? Maybe. But ring chasing is much more "appealing" now. So there is an argument of rings back in the day being more valuable, if that makes sense.

[@bolt7047]

very true the should be dome crossroads on how mutch a chapionship is valued with overall ability and other awards

[@josefrancisco4178]

James Burgess not really, only ring chasers in recent memory are LeBron, KD and cousins. Just because a few guys do it doesn't mean it defines this era. If anything it's actually WAY harder to win a ring because many teams are stacked. Just look at how LeBron got swept with another all star and a solid support cast. And the warriors didn't really have it easy either in the REAL FINALS, they were down 2-3 against the rockets and possibly only won because cp3 got injured.

[@loosenup8152]

José Francisco fax

[@sidjones16]

I don't think it was loyalty. Dudes used to pummel each other back then. There are players 20-30 yrs removed from retirement that still don't like each other. Ewing ain't reaching out to Pippen or Jordan (or vice versa) to join up.

[@emmettmudge8385]

I can see your point of view but I respectfully disagree. I think it needs to be looked at on a case by case basis. Lebrons 3-1 comeback is the most valuable ring of all time. Also back in the day people still were ring chasing but it was mainly the borderline allstars as they were the one strong enough to make a good team a contender so the all time greats back then didn’t have to move teams

[@drehitemup9904]

Rings are important but they're not the end all be all and are over valued causing stuff like kd and boogie to GS

[@16montana24kobe]

Naseer Williams Exactly

[@JoshuaALockhart]

Naseer Williams I agree with you a hundred percent

[@jonathansuarez6383]

You still salty? Damn lol, how is this dynasty more hated than the Celtics dynasty? I’m just curious lol

[@afrogarou]

Jonathan Suarez it’s not being salty it’s being able to take context in account.

[@supermanrun2313]

Jonathan Suarez It's not hate. You have to take into factor that players are getting more hate these days for not having a ring by the NBA community so they ring chase

[@CosmixxSlopShop]

what happened with you going thru all the 2k games :'(

[@neiron8062]

I was just thinking that🤷🏾‍♂️

[@dethkillerspiral]

Kareem said not to pick an individual as a G.O.A.T. because there are many GOATs out there with their own accomplishments, championships, strengths, weaknesses, so forth. I think we should make some sort of pantheon that memorializes the truly special players (Hall of Fame too easy) of Basketball. That's just my opinion though...

[@wyattcorbin1629]

I’d argue that the 1974-1975 Golden State Warriors were indeed a one-man team. Consider: -Rick Barry was their only All Star -No player averaged a double-double (although Barry put up 30/6/6) -They won a total of 48 games -They only had four players crack double digits in points, and Barry was 15 points ahead of the second place scorer -No player other than Barry averaged over 5 assists per game, and only one player had double digit rebounds -They had future HOF’er Jamaal Wilkes, but he was a rookie -In the postseason, Barry averaged 28 points. The second place Wilkes was 13 points behind him, and only one other player put up double digit points -In the playoffs, Barry’s 6 assists per game were 3 ahead of the second place player -In the Finals, Barry put up 24, 36, 38, and 20. No other player on his team put up 20 or more points more than once. -The team they beat in the Finals, the Bullets, had won 60 games and featured two all-stars, and two other players who were past and future all-stars, including prime HOF’ers Wes Unseld and Elvin Hayes -In the finals, Barry averaged *18* more points than the second highest scorer, Wilkes As I said, the 1974-75 Golden State Warriors were a one-man team, led by Rick Barry.

[@Hidden_Seeker_]

The 70s were also probably the weakest era behind the 50s

[@ungelojus]

When comparing two player's accolades, EVERYTHING matters. Titles, regular season, playoffs, stats, advanced stats. Everything should be brought up. But one thing i see slept one in debates, Top 10s, and comparison(s) is CONTEXT. For example, ppl say Kobe didnt do nothing in the Finals versus Pacers. Ppl forget Jasen Rose basically pulled a Zaza on Kobe in Game 2. Kobe played that Finals with a bum ankle, but a lot of ppl dont bring that up.

[@loosenup8152]

Angelo Bugaoan THANK YOU! someone with common sense.

[@CyGuyDudley]

My Top 5 5-Shaq 4-Lebron 3- JaVale McGee 2-Nick Young 1-Swaggy P

[@dan15000]

Cyrus The Virus No JR?

[@dimasbrilyanh]

Ayeee lmao 😂

[@treymagathan847]

Cyrus The Virus Ok, Lakers fan.

[@jonseversike]

"Rings are everything" is even worse

[@aw6332]

Yes rings do matter. However, I find very few people actually say they dont matter at ALL. Most peoples argument is that they matter, just not a whole lot. Obviously if lebron had 0 rings right now, no one would argue for him being the GOAT or even top 5. But let's look at it this way: Kobe averaged 15 ppg in his first finals series win. He won a finals as the clear 2nd best option only averaging 15 points a game. Yet people then use that finals win to say 5>3 (when compared to lebron). Meanwhile, lebron has damn near averaged a triple double over the last 2 finals and hes lost both of them. There are plenty of other situations like this too. This is why rings do not matter THAT much. It is much more about all of the other aspects of the game.

[@DonkeyKong5479]

That’s why Finals MVPs should be taken into consideration when comparing rings

[@johnferguson6321]

@@DonkeyKong5479 Exactly. When people want to use rings finals MVPs should also be taken into consideration. Finals MVPs should be more important than rings in GOAT conversations.

[@DavidJimenez-he1tv]

Kobe was playing on a fractured ankle that series while also having to be the defensive assignment on Reggie Miller. Stats need context bro

[@tonyy_destined]

Fans of players who dont got some rings or less than another player are the ones who argue "rings dont matter" ...like wtf the whole reason of them playing basketball aside the money is to win championships

[@biasedfan]

Nassir nas before steph got his first ring people were like “well rings don’t matter” but now that he has 3 rings there like “steph has 3 rings Westbrook has none”

[@billthegoatrussell6608]

@@biasedfan Nobody even used rings until Michael Jordan came along.

[@da_jeezuss8922]

Championships matter and stats matter. Thats why the goat is kareem abdul-jabbar. 6 championships, all time leading scorer, 6 mvps, 3rd all time rebounding, and 3rd all time blocks which wasnt even a stat until his 4th year in the nba. No discussion.

[@M471K]

And only has one 1 finals mvp to show for his rings

[@ofersagi5653]

he has 2 finals mvps

[@RobB678-x7k]

Magic carried Kareem to most of his titles

[@SV-bx5lr]

Cmindless he missed the playoffs in his prime in a weak era because of how it was formatted. his team had enough wins to make it in a proper playoff format

[@da_jeezuss8922]

Nobody "carried" kareem. His stats dont lie. You dont become the all time leading scorer while getting carried. His longevity had a lot to do with it, but its also why hes the greatest. Think about it like this, what do peple say when they bring up magic as the goat?

[@benxenos9875]

F A C T S. This video needed to be made so badly. These Lebron fans are beyond nuts man. Shifting gears completely, I would actually argue there have been a few "one man teams" to win NBA championships. The 1975 Warriors were basically Rick Barry and a team of replacement level players. Jamaal Wilkes was very good later in his career, but 75 was his rookie season and he wasn't a star presence by any means. This Warriors team was also pretty average through the season, and even in the playoffs by most accounts weren't expected to win the West. You could argue they were lucky to go against literally the worst team ever to make an NBA finals, the 75 Bullets (though I would accept a couple other teams in that convo as well). I would also say the 94 Rockets were largely a one man show, despite Otis Thorpe being critically underrated and plenty of good role players. Another example of one transcendent player carrying a team to a title when the deck was largely stacked against them. Another candidate for this distinction is the 2006 Heat. While Shaq was obviously still Shaq, he missed 30 games and was clearly hurt during the postseason. Nobody else on the roster averaged over 12 ppg. Wade averaged like 35 ppg during the finals. Not quite as much of a carry job as the other two, but still pretty significant imo. Great video! Love your content Dom :)

[@DeadxThrone1]

The 2011 Mavericks could also be used as an example. The 04' Pistons and '79 Sonics are two teams that won without a superstar. Regardless, these examples are anomalies. The majority of teams that have won championships generally have multiple all-stars and/or a team of useful role players.

[@sidjones16]

@@DeadxThrone1 Ben Wallace was a multiple x DPOY winner, a rebounding machine and one of a handful of centers to be in the top 10 in blocks and steals at the same time. Rasheed Wallace was up there with KG, Duncan and Dirk in the early 2ks. Those Pistons had a top 5 - top 15 player at all 5 positions. And they had a bench. Just like that 2011 Mavs team.

[@DeadxThrone1]

@@sidjones16 It's blatantly obvious that he was one of the best defensive players ever, but what I'm meaning when I saw "superstar" is that go-to guy that can take over the game a la LeBron, Kobe, Wade, Durant, Steph etc.

[@ariyo1000]

U forgot td 2003

[@benxenos9875]

@@sidjones16 Ben's my favorite center of all time but he sure isnt a superstar... superstar gets it done on both sides of the court at an elite level, or at least passable. Ben's offense was definately not that. Rasheed on the other hand was never top 3 in the league at his position, and probly wasnt top 5 either. While it may be a "discussion" between him and the players you named, is it really a discussion when the answer is so clear in regards to talent level and accomplishment?

[@Lifeinpurgatory]

Rings matter but vary in importance and impact on legacy, no way in hell are kd's gimme rings the same as Michael's or lebrons 2016 championship

[@theunpopularopinionatedten4951]

KD's rings are not gimmies.

[@notgiornogiovanna4483]

The Unpopular Opinionated Tennessean they are

[@fourtwenty1813]

We all know KDs rings don't count. You can't change my mind

[@dannydean9560]

four twenty I disagree only for 1 reason. I agree Durant took an easy way to get the finals, but he didn’t take the easy way to win. The easy way would have been to let Steph take over and not try and give his best. Durant gave his absolute best and won back to back finals MVPs. He was the best player on the floor so his rings matter because he proved he could do it on the big stage. The rest of the warriors didn’t show up.

[@rhapsodyMK64]

They matter just not as much as Lebron's rings or Jordan's rings

[@johnhancock1362]

Matthew B uh.. somewhat lebron rings. His first 2 are not as great as Jordan’s or his ring with the Cavs.

[@josiah111]

Patriotsfan 1991 Facts everyone says hes getting carried to championships but has 2 FMVP's

[@fearofsaturn]

he has 2 final mvps dickhead and has outplayed lebron in all of his finals he's winning thats all that matters

[@loganadams369]

I love the saying that Wilt “Stopped Scoring” and only averaged 30 and 20😂

[@YoutubeSugit]

Guy stays Loyal and doesn't win a ring because of it Dom: its the guys fault for not putting himself in a position to win a title Demarcus goes to the warriors to put himself in a position to win a title Dom: Wh-why won't guys compete anymore ?

[@grewdordon]

Just because you leave a team that isn’t putting you in a position to win, doesn’t mean you need to go to a super team. Cousins could have easily gone to a team like the Rockets who the previous year were a 1st seed and one injury away from making the NBA finals. Cousins could’ve also gone to Boston to play with Kyrie and Tatum.

[@wyattcorbin1629]

I think that rings should count when adding to a player’s legacy, but not when subtracting from their legacy.

[@drehitemup9904]

What if a player had multiple opportunities to win a ring but didn't show up repeatedly

[@trentonmullins4948]

Naseer Williams like lebron haha haha

[@NavyBluePersonGuy]

@@trentonmullins4948 *hater* found

[@jdxn3364]

Trenton Mullins how he’s clutch

[@jdxn3364]

Kenneth Erickson what abt the 2016 final?

[@slykai99]

Great take. I've actually made a vid like this on my channel. Rings do matter, but are obviously not the only factor when comparing players. It's just like being an admissions officer and just looking at the SAT score to admit the student. Just like students, players should be graded based off of the complete package. If two players are too close in accolades, then rings may be used as a tie-breaker. Note that I said IF THE PLAYERS ARE CLOSE IN ACCOLADES. In my video, I addressed how people misunderstand the rings argument by saying it means that Horry is better than Jordan since he has more rings. Rings are a tie-breaker between players of the same hierarchy, not a bench player to an NBA legend. I find it extremely annoying that fans will say that the rings argument means that Zaza is better than AI. Jordan clearly said that Kobe-LeBron is close, but he would choose Kobe due to rings. The rings are clearly a tie breaker. I mean this respectfully, but the only people arguing that rings don't matter are LeBron fans trying to prove that he is the GOAT.

[@alphagames8737]

So true bro

[@crazycolt1238]

Yeah for example at the time mj got asked that question LeBron wasn’t good enough to not need a tie breaker with Kobe so 5 bests 2. But now it’s lbj vs mj and lbj can’t out accolade mj so some people say “rings don’t matter” cause they like LeBron more.

[@mnijt5024]

If rings don't matter how does winning conference finals matter? Shouldn't it be a "team effort" as well? If anything it should be count less than a ring. But they're acting like going to finals for 8 years is the greatest accomplishment of all time but rings nah we don't count that? The hypocrisy here is off the roof.

[@KNGSHxT]

Your entire argument is based on perception rather than actual logic. People care about championships because they have a narrative, but they offer zero to the argument in regards of who is the better individual player. 10/10 times unless you're a die-hard Celtics stan, you pick Wilt over Russell, even though Bill has 5 times as many rings. Wilt's taller, stronger, faster, and better in almost every way, but Russell had way better circumstances. Too many outside factors go into winning a championship for a player to use that as an edge when comparing two individuals, especially when you get into the debate about multiple rings. Plenty of teams have won championships with the best player on the other side of the floor. 2004, nobody on the Pistons is half as good as Shaq or Kobe. 2011 where Dirk gets his only ring because LeBron has his worst series ever. Some people claim that Hakeem only has rings because MJ retired. That shit is way too circumstantial to use in a debate. Injuries, teammates, bad coaching, bad GMs, bad calls, contracts, trade vetoes, etc ALL change change the outcome of the Finals. You're boiling down a player's entire career down into a few series and that just doesn't make any sense to me.

[@Chris1200923]

thank you bruh. his argument was weak as hell

[@jjsmooth23]

You have to judge players heavily on how they perform in big games tho. What’s the point of having great numbers but losing when it matters or just putting up great numbers. A lot of numbers are empty and mean nothing

[@KNGSHxT]

Because great numbers don't always win big games. LeBron had 50/8/8 in Game 1 and lost because his idiot teammate forgot the score. The game MJ dropped 63 on the Celtics in the playoffs, they lost. This narrative that one guy can carry you to a ring is BS that Jordan fans created after he finally started winning. EVERY championship team was a great TEAM. Yes they include great players, but the TEAM gets it done, the COACHES, FRONT OFFICE. A player could average 100 points per game, but if his teammates can't make a bucket, they'll never even make the playoffs, let alone win it all. That's why rings don't belong in debates on individual players. If you want to talk about stories and legacies, fine, but don't pretend that has real value in a straight-up "whose the better player" debate

[@SwrvShiesty]

So based on this argument, can you look me straight in the eye and tell me that Karl Malone should be higher on the all time player list than Tim Duncan?

[@KNGSHxT]

If you look at all the factors, it's no wrong answer. Malone has slightly better stats, but it's not like he blows Tim out the water. Both have 2 MVPs, Duncan's edge clearly comes from his situation. He played for one of the greatest basketball minds we ever had, for an organization that has been lauded for how it's system turns guys nobody ever looked at into fringe stars. Tim Duncan has a more storied career, but the difference in the two players skill-wise is negligible. But since you want to do the hypothetical thing.. Chauncey Billups led his team to a ring over that same duo that killed AI's title hopes a few years prior, you got Billups over AI? Has Stephen Curry already passed Oscar Robertson and John Stockton with his 3 rings and 2 MVPs? If that's the case, maybe Kyrie Irving should be the new NBA logo. His finals record is better than Jerry West's.

[@TheAwesomeninjaBrian]

rings aren’t even a team accomplishment, it’s a organization accomplishment, the whole organization builds the team and stuff so they all get rings, i remember when the cavs won in 2016 and usher got a ring because he partially own the cavs😂

[@loosenup8152]

When comparing two player's accolades, EVERYTHING matters. Titles, regular season, playoffs, stats, advanced stats.

[@randomcommenter395]

Ok Jerry Krause

[@ariyo1000]

@@randomcommenter395 😂😂 funny but hes right

[@johnnykilroy3737]

Everyone has a bias because when we compare two players like bron and jordan fans say "jordan has more rings" but when we compare jordan and Kareem or jordan or bill russell fans say "rings aren't everything" basically rings only matter when we want to diminish and hate one player and rings don't matter when we want to hype up protect or overrate another player

[@supermanrun2313]

I think it's the fact that the NBA community in general holds rings to a very high standard. Yeah rings are important but rings alone don't make you great.

[@biasedfan]

William Scott Jr. that would mean steph or Zaza is better than Westbrook

[@ariyo1000]

Robert Horry is proof of this

[@melvinlu9663]

Rings do matter but Finals Mvps need to be taken into account if ur going to argue rings since fmvps meant they step up to take over when it mattered. But the championship narrative has caused KD and Boogie to go ring chasing. like no one is putting Steph up there as one of the goats cuz he has yet to win a Fmvps despite winning 3 titles. A goat conversation needs to take into account rings, stats, longevity (especially for prime), and accolades

[@melvinlu9663]

Kareem and Magic shared the spotlight when they played and never did I say they needed to win all their finals mvps like no one disregards DWade cuz he already proved he was an alpha dog by the time the Miami Big 3 was formed. Kareem by the time he got to lakers already proved he could step up in Milwaukee. Don't get me wrong no one is disregarding Steph for not winning fmvps and the only time u can rlly say he choked was 2016 when they blew a 3-1 lead but the whole team pretty much choked but it certainly does not help his case as top 10 player tho given how stacked GS is he will have more chances to do so for someone who is suppose to be the face of the team if he hasn't won at least ONE fmvps. If Kobe didn't win the 2 titles after Shaq left LA, he certainly would be viewed in a different light and he had won 2 of them (tho it prob should be 1 given how hard Gasol and Artest bailed him out in 2010) and that was the only knock on his career at that point of not being able to win as the main guy. Iggy is the rare exception to the fmvp rule since pretty much every player that has won it besides Maxwell are HoF caliber players.

[@Shemzinho]

Yh but Steph was robbed in 2015

[@bolt7047]

nba fan logic for you russel westbrook rings 0 steph curry 3 russel westbrook mvps1 Steph curry mvps 2 russel westbrook 3pt contest wins 0 steph curry 3pt contest wins 1 nba turnover leader russel westbrook steph curry never nba fan logic westbrook better like come on just becuase he stat pads dosent make him better the nba community is brain dead at this point

[@bolt7047]

BLOCKED BY JAMES good to hear

[@slimz9166]

Kings 16 lol but curry is bttr if u disagree you don’t know basketball😂

[@MrUlee]

Kings 16 Nah man Steph is BY FAR the best Point Guard in the league and easily a top 3 player right now. You could even argue that he's a top 5 PG all time.

[@fbicorporation6931]

Splash Central top 5?????? Nah fam he's already top 3 the big argument is him vs Oscar lmaooo.

[@fbicorporation6931]

People still debate over westbrick and curry?? westbrick vs dame is more equal ground

[@mase8705]

Really enjoying the barbershop talks. Keep up the good work bruh.

[@masondalrymple9043]

For my goat conversation I say who ever is the most skill and the best overall player for me my top 3 a lot of people who disagree with me but I have: 1.} Lebron 2.} Jordan 3.) Hakeem. I have Hakeem 3 because he is the most skilled post player in nba history l, Kareem scored the most points and had the sky hook but Hakeem dominated all the big men he went up against,he is the greatest defensive center of all time aswell and like Kareem Is known for there own post move the dream shake and sky hook, overall I feel Hakeem is one of the most underrated players of all time

[@pillcosby8850]

Mason Dalrymple i like the way you think

[@hyekyo3595]

Mason Dalrymple LeBron never joined a dunk contest. Didnt do a triple pump fake and i can go on but jordan is the most skilled player in basketball history

[@MrSlashblade]

Mason Dalrymple Kareem dominated Hakeem even his age.

[@AlphaTSH]

Jordan is far more skilled than Lebron

[@Skinnypete38]

Mason Dalrymple Lebron isnt more skilled than Jordan. He's just more athletic.

[@Bugga_]

Nobody who knows sports thinks rings don't matter. However, they don't define the individual, yet the situation they were playing in.

[@billthegoatrussell6608]

Rings matter but they shouldnt be used to rank one player over the other.

[@NinestarK]

Anybody can be a champion everybody can’t be a Hall of Famer ~Tracy McGrady

[@thevolpe2]

Ive honestly never heard anyone say that rings don’t matter because they’re just a team accomplishment. The only thing I’ve heard people say about it is that rings aren’t all that matter, and they say that when someone says something like what Michael Jordan said-5 rings is better than 3.

[@dbran7434]

rings count as player's greatness as in achievements and accolades. but it doesn't count when talking about individual basketball skills in terms of putting the ball on the floor and in the basket. so a player can be greater because of rings, but can't be better because of rings.

[@fearofsaturn]

if u can't elevate your team to a championship level or at least make your better with your presence its impossible to be better than anyone else

[@dbran7434]

you are right, but a player also have to be in the right system to fully able play at his highest level.

[@McDingus360]

Well there’s one person u can argue is in ur top ten without any rings, ALLEN IVERSON

[@davidmckee586]

Dom, I hope you get this. First of all, I’m a big fan of your work. I appreciate how unbiased you keep your opinions and how your content always is interesting and relevant to what’s going on in basketball. I was just watching your “rings don’t matter” video that just came out, and I found it really interesting. I think the whole “rings don’t matter” argument comes from not actually witnessing the player firsthand. Because I value a player like Russell who won rings over a player like Wilt who didn’t win as many, solely on the fact that they won rings. Obviously I wasn’t around to watch either so go by the fact that one won more of the highest honor in basketball, than the other, but if I witnessed both firsthand, maybe I would think Wilt is better because I saw them play. It’s like how we know Lebron is better than Durant, even though Durant will likely retire with more rings than Lebron. I don’t know, just something to think about. Hopefully we can have a conversation about this because I’m interested to hear your thoughts.

[@valentinbueno27]

anybody else see the reaction of Cash Nasty and him getting triggered by straight facts from dom

[@stormyweraf7923]

Barbershop talk is my favorite segment to ever be featured

[@11simonjr]

This is main channel worthy

[@TheJAWcrew]

Kobe had shaq & pau then role players during my lakers championship runs.....lbj had kyrie, love, wade, bosh during his....kobe's best role players were robert horry, derek fisher, lamar odom & bynum.....lebrons best role players were shane battier, rashad lewis, ray allen, kyle korver jr smith channing frye...like i believe there's certain things but lbj has had the mist help on his rings then any star ever not named curry

[@zyshawnmoore551]

Dom 2k great video man, great video.

[@coleringer3335]

I feel like championships matter but finals mvps matter a lot more to me

[@iang7244]

Stats and rings work together. You can't argue with one without the other.

[@Tonio2k]

Glad you made this video! This topic always had me wondering. I know rings matter but with players such as Dirk, Ai, TMac, etc if they had more rings they would be placed higher of all- time players

[@da1laba861]

I think rings are important for players to have atleast some arguments to be better than this or that player but there's a time it doesn't matter when you left a team for a cakewalk and you are just an addition to the team. Like Boogie, his comparisons with great players are over.

[@noahmaddox4533]

GOAT PLAYOFF SERIES PLEASE?!!!

[@socialistbatman1211]

Rings don’t really mean much when we’re comparing individuals

[@brady195]

Great video. The way I determine rankings is just by this question: Who would I want in game 7 of the NBA finals? Obviously you would look at stats and overall player skill, but now rings and how good players are in the clutch really sets them apart.

[@whodatiscody]

What you were saying about Wilt reminded me of Westbrook, never will win a title without changing his game to make everyone around him better instead of going after triple doubles every night.

[@calvinluciano]

what matters achievements, rings are the most valuable achievement statistics, which is calculated measurements & skills, such as post game footwork handles agility court vision midrange 3pt defense etc bill russell & wilt played in a 8 team league we wouldn’t be having these discussions if people would add context to their arguments like rings statistics & stats because none of it tells the whole story jordan think kobe is better because kobe was versatile when it came to skill lebron is versatile when it comes to team play he’s 6’8 200lbs no post game why would jordan think lebron’s better than kobe regardless of the rings

[@damitrimoore]

Exactly it's a pick and choose argument.

[@RyuuseiBlizzard]

*"Rings dont mather" is a cold take but they don't mather as much as people want them too.* I literally got people telling me on twitter that Klay Thompson will be better then Harden and Iverson once all is said and done because he will have/has more rings.

[@RyuuseiBlizzard]

Also: Bill Russell has a career fg% of 40%. As a center. The nigga sucks on offense. Got a lot of respect for him but hes not a top 5 center or a top 10 player

[@juliothom2408]

Stupid Take. He wasn’t a great offensive player, so he sucks? Really? If he was so bad as a Center, why did his team win 11? He won because his game was totally fashioned in a matter that promoted team success. He wasn’t a great offensive player. So? That team had plenty of offense. You can find offense easily. Can you name a better defender? Wilt is the only one in his league as a rebounder, shot blocker, and assist guy from the post. Everything he was great at made the TEAM better, and they won as a result. I can name a ton of great scorers that didn’t win Jack Squat. Great defenders typically win. That includes MJ, as he was a plus defender in addition to being a scorer.

[@RyuuseiBlizzard]

"Stupid Take. He wasn’t a great offensive player, so he sucks? Really?" *Never said he sucked, I said he sucked on offense; which he did... A typical season for him was 13 ppg on 39 fucking percent for a center.* "If he was so bad as a Center, why did his team win 11?" *Because Bill Russell was a great player that anchored a championsship level defense. The Celtics also had multiple HOFers.* "He wasn’t a great offensive player. So? That team had plenty of offense. You can find offense easily. Can you name a better defender?." *The fact that they had enough offense didn't mean he didn't suck on offense. The fact that he sucks on offense has nothing to do with the fact that he was great on defense.* "Can you name a better defender?" *Michael Jordan, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Scottie Pippen, Hakeem Olajuwon, Dennis Rodman etc. You can't forget that for a part of Russell's career he was allowed to goaltend. He also played without the '3 seconds in the paint' violation rule. He could just stand under the basket. Notice how I haven't even mentioned the short unathletic competition he was playing against. He was still the 2nd best player of his era don't get me wrong.* "I can name a ton of great scorers that didn’t win Jack Squat. Great defenders typically win. That includes MJ, as he was a plus defender in addition to being a scorer." *Okay. So? Championsships is a factor in ranking players but let's not act like it's decisive. For example you can't tell me Kevin McHale was better then Karl Malone but Kevin McHale got the rings tho.* *Yes Russell was amazing. On and off the court. But basketball has evolved. He is a top 10 defender all time and a top 3 winner all time (Only Kareem or Jordan got a argument over him). But as a center I wouldn't say he's better then Kareem, Hakeem, Shaq, Wilt, Robinson or Duncan. Also Wouldn't say he's a better player then Jordan, Lebron, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Wilt, Shaq, Kobe, Hakeem, Duncan etc. So He's not top 10. Allof these guys where all time great offensive players and all time great defensive players. Bill Russell is a all time great defensive player, but he's nowhere near a all time great on offense* *Just winning can't close the gap on his lack of offense. Be objective. I love Bill Russell for what he has done, I thought it was really funny how he flipped off Barkley last month lol but he's not top 10.*

[@MorganTheGod]

Klay is better than harden and ai. Are u trying to debate against that?

[@XenoApe]

KD's 2 rings don't matter that much. He didn't deserve not 1.

[@juwandunbar8897]

kd won back to back finals MVP so he did deserve it n he carried WARRIORS in Game 3 last year FINALS

[@XenoApe]

@@juwandunbar8897 just because you win Finals MVP doesn't mean you deserve your ring.

[@juwandunbar8897]

so Lebron Miami 2 rings don't count than

[@XenoApe]

@@juwandunbar8897 LeBron went to a 5th seed and the Thunder had a better record than the Heat and in 2013 LeBron carried. Durant went to a 73-9 team with 3 other all stars.

[@juwandunbar8897]

but 21 yr old harden Choke in the finals n Lebron was on a freaking superteam in Miami dude, played with 3 all stars/Hall of famers n Ray SAVED him in 2013 finals lol. n Draymond call kd rite afta GAME 7 so get mad at Draymond not kd. kd Lebron don't join teams by himself he bring a star with him fasho. he bring star bosh with him to Miami, goin back to Cleveland he bring klove wit Him n trade love for #1 pick Wiggins and goin to Lakers he bring a load of guys ( Lance Stephenson, two time champ McGee,Beasley tyson,Chandler n all star rondo) n dying to get Anthony Davis rite now

[@dizemk1810]

bad managment might be brons best defence - in case of his first years. but he went back there and overstayed. miami has/had a good front office.

[@BigYARK]

Rings shouldn't be the end all be all but they definitely hold weight. The four greatest ever in my opinion are Kareem, MJ, Bill Russell, and Wilt Chamberlain. Great points on Wilt. He said himself that he stopped scoring to focus on other facets of the game to help his team win. It was a "play like Russell" mentality and it got him two championships. He even led the league in assists one year which makes him the only player to ever lead the league in scoring, rebounds, and assists at some point in their career. Probably led in blocks too but they weren't calculated. This speaks to Wilt Chamberlain's versatility, potential, and overall tremendous ability. Factor in him being 7'1, 300+lbs, can literally run as fast or faster than a guard, and above all is smart as fuck (Bill himself said he was the smartest he played against). Wilt is the best athlete to ever be in the NBA. Imagine how many quadruple doubles Wilt and Bill Russell would be credited with if they counted blocks......

[@SV-bx5lr]

Wilt never played like Russell in the playoffs. Russell on many occasions throughout many series took almost as many shots as Wilt per game (~20) It was more like Russell played like Wilt

[@kingsleyjackson8287]

Robert horry got 7 rings

[@qwikscopez6619]

rings tell you nothing useful about a players contribution, one player can influence an estimated 40% of the possessions so thats over 50% of the game a player cannot influence, a players aim is to help their team whether their team wins or not has no bearing in the amount a player contributed which is what its about

[@SV-bx5lr]

except 1 man did win a ring once "I’d argue that the 1974-1975 Golden State Warriors were indeed a one-man team. Consider: -Rick Barry was their only All Star -No player averaged a double-double (although Barry put up 30/6/6) -They won a total of 48 games -They only had four players crack double digits in points, and Barry was 15 points ahead of the second place scorer -No player other than Barry averaged over 5 assists per game, and only one player had double digit rebounds -They had future HOF’er Jamaal Wilkes, but he was a rookie -In the postseason, Barry averaged 28 points. The second place Wilkes was 13 points behind him, and only one other player put up double digit points -In the playoffs, Barry’s 6 assists per game were 3 ahead of the second place player -In the Finals, Barry put up 24, 36, 38, and 20. No other player on his team put up 20 or more points more than once. -The team they beat in the Finals, the Bullets, had won 60 games and featured two all-stars, and two other players who were past and future all-stars, including prime HOF’ers Wes Unseld and Elvin Hayes -In the finals, Barry averaged 18 more points than the second highest scorer, Wilkes As I said, the 1974-75 Golden State Warriors were a one-man team, led by Rick Barry." -Wyatt Corbin

[@steviebuckets9035]

I just don’t think rings should matter if it’s a one on one debate, player vs player.

[@chaotic5907]

Hakeem(94) Duncan (03) and Dirk (11) are the only players I know who carried a bad team (without them) to the finals and WON ..if I forgot anyone please lmk

[@ptheusengeagoni5455]

*Lebron fans has left the chat*

[@eydanlopez814]

“Yeah man, winning the olympics isn’t your goal for training all your life. Don’t worry bout it”

[@billthegoatrussell6608]

But they shouldnt be used to rank players

[@FooshigiMLGlol]

The worst take in basketball is that rings are the only thing that counts

[@BishopM1]

Bill Russell’s stats don’t do him justice. He was like a Dennis Rodman a and KG combined.

[@lukephillips5273]

"Each one of them have at least one title" RIP Karl Malone

[@trey7786]

I think rings matter but not as much as people like media people like Skip Bayless thinks. When a Jordan vs Lebron debate pops up the only thing he says is 6 rings vs 3 rings without taking anything else into consideration. At the end of the day it is still a TEAM award and it shouldn't be more important than awards and stats (the individual awards).

[@DeadxThrone1]

Rings should be something to close your argument, not something that can be used to substitute for one. There is alot more to a player's career than just how many rings he won.

[@cjhayes2057]

I feel like rings importance changes depending on the argument like if you're comparing Jordan to Lebron of course you're going to use rings but and ik no one is comparing these 2 players you're not going to use rings comparing AI to Derrick Fisher

[@trentonmullins4948]

CJ Maxx ofc not who tf would compare a hofer to a role player.

[@enodd_felix12]

Lolll....I just got that intro

[@michaelzachary00]

I dont think rings compare who is a better player, rather who is a better legacy. For example, Chris Paul is better than Jason Kidd, who seems to be forgotten in this day and age. However, Jason kidd has a ring with Dallas. But not many people will argue that Kidd is a better player than Paul. So I dont think rings should matter as much as they do. Same argument goes for, say Melo and Harrison Barnes. WE all know who the better player is and will be by the end of their careers. But maybe I'm just a biased CP3 and Melo fan.

[@majinant2425]

I think if you put Steve Nash there instead kidd your point would be a little better to me. You know Nash and Cp3 are seen as 2 of the top pgs in, but if Cp3 wins a ring maybe people would say he better then.

[@carterbilbro4615]

LikeMike24 has absolutely better than Kid. CP3’s career offensive BPM is off the charts!

[@carrastealth]

The "rings don't matter" argument started as the basis to protect LeBron in the GOAT discussions. Whether you agree with how much rings matter or don't matter, the entire reasons they turned it into 'rings don't matter" in the media, is because there was a new dynasty in the NBA that LeBron wasn't a part of, that was consistently beating him in the Finals, and due to the fact he's lot 4 of his last 5 NBA Finals appearances, the narrative then switched to "well rings don't really matter anyway.." to protect him. That's more or less why that 'hot take' exists, and ESPN loves to use it to 'excuse' LeBron, and only LeBron. When months or even years earlier they were pretty much saying that Carmelo's career amounted to nothing because he hadn't won any rings, and that rings > Olympic Gold medals. But then a few years later when LeBron is 1-4 in his last 5 Championship appearances, then it's "well rings don't really matter that much anyway...." That's where that hot take comes from, and it's as ridiculous now as it was then.

[@kraus360]

Rings get discredited to allow a certain king to reach a certain GOAT.

[@billthegoatrussell6608]

Explain to me why they were calling Michael Jordan the GOAT before he won a championship?

[@DJC-10]

This title = Lebron Stans

[@rellog83]

8:20....A.I. is in my top 10...he is like #4 to #6...people sleep on him...they slept on spud webb too...

[@nbabackcourtmedia]

I hate how people think rings aren't important, they still play a factor

[@billthegoatrussell6608]

Why? You can't win rings if you don't have a team.

[@nbabackcourtmedia]

@@billthegoatrussell6608 because even though yes you need a good team to win a ring, it’s still a hard accomplishment that you have to be consistent, play well, etc to get, it’s not like once you get a good team then it’s easy

[@billthegoatrussell6608]

@@nbabackcourtmedia But there a lot of examples of players playing well and not being able to win because they don't have a good team to win.

[@themapletree2310]

I agree with you to a extent while championships are a factor in determining who's the best. The guy with 11 championships isn't considered being the greatest which I think weakens your point. Please tell me if you disagree and please explain why you think that. But anyways it's just my opinion so please don't take this to heart. Thanks for reading

[@percyschannel4187]

Rings matter because they determine the ability to WIN, not to score, not to perform. To WIN. You can argue that Westbrook is better than Curry, Wilt is better than Russell etc. They may be better individually, but if Wilt scores 50, grabs 30 boards, but loses the game, what was it worth? Melo is top 20 all time scoring. 0 rings. Malone top 5 scoring, Top 10 rebounds. 0 rings. The ability to lead your team to victory is the best skill a player could have. Bron put up 50 game 1 last year’s finals. Yea JR messed up but players make mistakes. He should’ve rallied the troops, they made it to overtime, that was the perfect opportunity to steal momentum and more importantly Home court. Instead he threw a fit. Talent and ability often time make players the leader of their team by default, simply because they’re the best player. That’s the burden they carry. How well they carry it is what separates PERFORMERS from WINNERS. That’s why rings matter so much. There’s been teams with only one all star win rings, and teams with 3-4-5 all stars lose. It’s not about talent, it’s the ability to win. And, coincidentally, the 12 nba players who’ve won multiple finals MVPs are always discussed in top 10 conventions (Jordan, Russell, Kareem, Bird, Magic, Duncan, Kobe, Shaq, Bron, KD, Hakeem, Willis Reed).

[@darrengordon-hill]

*Jerry West IS NOT "the logo"*

[@mlkchannel5890]

This was such a good video bro wow

[@edwardcui7535]

Rings count, unless you play for the warriors is what people really think 😂

[@billthegoatrussell6608]

Makes no sense considering they called Jordan the greatest ever in the 1980s.

[@tashrif46]

Well if ring don't matter, then what are the elite players playing for?

[@billthegoatrussell6608]

They shouldn't be used ro rank players because there is a lot of great players who didn't win.

[@kvltizt]

Rings matter but when some scrub is yelling that a great HOFer isn't actually great because no rings, it gets a bit old.

[@PokemasterGamer45]

Bill Russell was to the 60’s what Tim Duncan is to our era. Both could have been more like Wilt or Shaq if they wanted to but focused on the team to keep winning. And cmon , Bill Russell is the the 2nd greatest rebounder of all time and it isn’t even close. Him and Wilt will never be passed

[@yuch1102]

Rings matter but is NOT everything, it is the collection body of work

[@dvon1097]

rings are important but...its not everything. like you can not tell me bill russell was better than wilt chamberlian just based on rings.

[@Blackwolf-fw3sq]

Sometimes being so loyal to a team will not win you a ring

[@xavierstamp8786]

Carmelo, Vince, AI, Karl, John Stocken, TMac, Barkley etc. are the perfect example of rings matter. If Melo was drafted by the Pistons and got a few rings. He would be looked at in a completely different than he is now. for example Stephen A Smith would say, “Yes Melo can be a ball movement stopper and not the best defender but he’s a champion so he knows he can get the job done.” Also Shaq disrespects Barkley legacy a lot cuz of rings only. That shows how important rings are. People have Shaq in their top 10 but without rings their stats are very similar

[@nonanimeprofilepic]

>m-muh statpadding, w-who cares about rings HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAFERFJR9JWE0RJFEWROPFE

[@rhapsodyMK64]

The people who think rings don't matter are so annoying. Everything that a player has done contributes to their ranking and rings are included in that whole body of work along with their skill. Stop trying to diminish rings.

[@andreialexandruparfeni7129]

Matthew B Yeah, but a ring isn't a player acconplishment. If it was a 1 v 1 game, yeah. But it is not. Performance matters. Performance, especially in the playoffs and Finals.

[@rhapsodyMK64]

tteverywhere 97 Yeah what you said is exactly right rings do matter but you need to look at it with context and see what the player accomplished to earn the rings Like KD's rings are way less valueable in my opinion cause we all know what he did

[@andreialexandruparfeni7129]

Matthew B True. But you can't take away the fact that he was really good in 2017 especially. To the point where I think it is certainly a 7 game series if you replace him with someone like Barnes.

[@rhapsodyMK64]

tteverywhere 97 Yeah they still matter just not as much as others

[@carterbilbro4615]

This is true, but they don’t matter at a certain point

[@somerandomusername7637]

Please could someone tell me the name of the beat at the beginning that shit is 🔥

[@pizzasnak123]

Hey, depending on how ever many rings KD wins with the warriors, do they still hold value??? I really need your opinion on this

[@nbabackcourtmedia]

Clicked off another vid for this, who was at the last livestream

[@Kidkinsey]

rings matter but they should not be the end all be all in a argument

[@TheSchism-y7p]

It's funny because if goat Russell went like three and eight in the finals, LeBron apologists would always put him as a placeholder for examples of great players that didn't have great finals records.

[@Dashman98]

"'rings don't matter' is what the media is pushing"? Are we watching the same media? Because the heat super team were all about rings. Dirk landed on legend status after winning his ring. 'Jordan is better than LeBron' is because Jordan has more and undefeated rings. The 'GSW didn't need Durant, then show his 2011 'lets get at these people' tweet' is all about him winning a ring the easiest way possible. The same reason why people consider D-wade a better SG all-time over Iverson, is almost entirely because of the rings. I don't know in which universe these barbershops are located but someone should turn on ESPN, FS1, or TNT and just listen.

[@Amirthespear]

What about the this players rings don't count since they on a certain team take

[@גלעדשלמון]

what's the music in the intro?

[@wantedprince03]

Berry Matt Cherne

[@marvinj1000]

If Karl Malone and John Stockton won two championships they will definitely be top 10 all time

[@billthegoatrussell6608]

Which is dumb because you're downgrading them because they have no rings.

[@Kalinbuggs]

Dom the people who started this is LBJ fans bc when Kobe was playing 2008 - he can’t win with Shaq 2009- okay he won with Shaq can he get more 2010 - okay he has more than Shaq but can he get tie Jordan? LBJ is my top 5 but people who say “rings don’t matter” wouldn’t say it if the player had more rings

[@cultmoss4482]

Rings don't really matter, although when I say that doesn't mean these championships don't affect a players legacy but rather it should be about a players contrabution to winning, for example LeBron James in 2016 is a valuable championship for him because he performed well and was the reason they were able to win. I don't think you should undervalue someone like Jerry west for not winning because he always played very well in the post season and was one of the most clutch players of all time, that matters much more in my opinion then being a player like Steve Kerr or Robert Horry who got all there rings because they just played with great players