Rings of Power: Galadriel is "Secretly" a Mary Sue and Here's Why

[@LiteratureDevil]

Go to nordvpn.com/literaturedevil to get a huge discount off the 2-year plan with 4 additional months for free! Try NordVPN risk-free thanks to their 30-day money back guarantee!

[@redknight4805]

Thank you for this fantastic video essey.

[@Don-ds3dy]

Just a theory, perhaps Guyladriel intentionally surrounds herself with weaker men to make herself look better by comparison. It's not unheard of for "girl bosses" or even male bosses to do such a thing.

[@candicemceady308]

Totally agree!!! Democrat here!!! Japan understands this better than American does. Characters need obstacles to overcome inorder to succeed. Why do so many "writers" think they are always owned a piece of the pie just because. Do you know why anime and manga succeed they understand that traditional love family and values is what sells not giving everyone a piece of the pie just because especially when it'll never be enough for them.

[@LiteratureDevil]

Sorry, I put the wrong special thank you! A special thank you to: Lady Fossalot Petcopaul User#4675D89E RALL MEKIN HEX HARPER

[@javiertorres1290]

@@LiteratureDevil not secretly is a facts

[@jaonatohinirina565]

A phrase that sums up any mary sue: "They were right, they are right, and they will be right even when they are wrong"

[@Ramsey276one]

Painfully accurate

[@smithgdwg]

Then you look at Viserys character from House Of The Dragon. He made a lot of mistakes, but you understand his reasoning and why he made those decisions. And his final walk to the Throne was more Powerful than anything Galadriel did in the Rings of Power show because HE EARNED IT. He Earned our respect as a character that felt real and genuine.

[@rahn45]

Course to elaborate on the last point, often they are wrong because they listened to someone else instead of themselves. Which of course turns any act of humility or deference on their part a mistake.

[@fajarkurniawan9434]

Thanks, I am not american So i don't understand the term Mary sue I understand karen though 😂

[@fajarkurniawan9434]

Thanks, I am not american So i don't understand the term Mary sue I understand karen though 😂

[@shadiversity]

Spectacular video mate.

[@GamingGardeningAndLayingSiege]

It really is. Well done LD

[@LiteratureDevil]

Thanks, Shad!

[@TomyDayos]

Love your videos.

[@andregon4366]

The *big stick energy* guy is here! Stick is best.

[@roxxdude1]

Damn this is praise I wish I could get from Shad. Love seeing this cross channel positivity, especially from two of my favourite creators

[@Gyrannon]

In truth, Galadriel as portrayed in this show would DEFINITELY take the ring from Frodo without a second thought. Why? Because Amazon has established that she believes she can do no wrong. And that is ironically the same exact thinking that made Mairon into Sauron. She wouldn't be destroying the evil, she'd merely be REPLACING IT.

[@PipoZePoulp]

She didn't resist the temptation of wielding a sword. She'd give in to the Ring's lure in a heartbeat.

[@dizzyheads]

@@PipoZePoulp And she'd be considered good for it

[@michaelmccarty1327]

There’s an Age of Empires mod that tells the story of LotR and this happens

[@englishlady9797]

She'd stab Frodo to take the Ring.

[@leatcanned]

She pretty much already did that in the film, I think the point there wasn't "would she.." it was asto say "how she would do it." Which is to say she atempted to seduce the ring with her power and majesty. Which would as previously observed have brought about the same result.

[@aaron6622]

Dang, now I'm emotionally invested in Elrond, and his story of overcoming Galadriel's toxic "friendship."

[@Nopeasaurus]

The Bad Ending: Elrond: Oh, dear friend Galadriel I'm so happy to see you! How was your journey? Galadriel: Away from me, you idle flatterer! I demand to speak to the manager! This starts a chain of reactions that eventually leads Galadriel to Sauron, who she then encourages to return to his wicked ways, dooming Middle Earth to a series of great sufferings. The Good Ending: Elrond conspires with the king to execute Galadriel once she enters Eregion. After Galadriel's execution, the bird's begin to sing, a rainbow forms, and somewhere far away Sauron, disguised as Halbrand, decides to start all over and live a peaceful life as an ordinary blacksmith.

[@markdowding5737]

in the books Galadriel becomes Elrond's mother-in-law, I wonder if they are going to take that path on the show (not that I will watch it anyway).

[@wolfrainexxx]

@@Nopeasaurus Would Halbrand move to Honeywood, and be known as Bodger the Blacksmith?

[@ThreadBareHope1234]

That's another critical difference between good stories and Mary Sue stories is that in good stories the good guys usually have friends (and it's their flaws that might make them loose or never make friends) while in Mary Sue/Woke stories they can never calm down and everyone even their own friends are the enemy. The only reason they have friends is that they agree with them on everything

[@46sn29]

Another alternative take on the Troll scene could have been as follows. Galadriel arrives and sees her soldiers getting massacred by the troll. She takes command of the situation and begins giving orders to the surviving men. Then they work together AS A UNIT and take down the troll through teamwork. This would show Galadriel as a competent leader while also making the male soldiers more than just canon fodder to make her look better.

[@theblackflame4002]

And following that when they discover the room with the Orc melded into the rock. That was a great chance to show he sorcery side of her people are familiar with. She could have sensed it, waved her hand, cleared the illusion of the wall. Instead she punches through it like Iron Fist from the comic books.

[@bandaid6550]

It can even tie into LD's idea as well. During the fight she places herself in the front, and she is knocked unconscious while shielding her men with her own body.

[@johnstrawb3521]

Yet to be remarked upon. Galadriel waits and watches as some of her soldiers are massacred. The writers couldn't even figure out the timing of the scene such that she heard the sounds of fighting and immediately headed for the altercation and immediately intervened. With all the other clues to that point, the incompetence of the showrunners was obvious and insurmountable.

[@thomaslacroix6011]

Even the fact the elves were getting smashed is weird. Elves, especially a squad formed for the "commander of the northern armies" would need to be excellent warriors. So instead of being inefficient buffoons, they could be fighting defensively, harassing the troll without making significant headway, and then Galadriel comes in, grab two other soldiers and lands the killing blow with their help.

[@lightningpenguin8937]

The ironic part, is that they'd still make her look good, maybe even better.

[@TotallyCluelessGamer]

Ironically Rings of Power Galadriel is objectively less powerful than Tolkien's Galadriel. She went from probably the most powerful Elven sorcerer/sorceress in all of Middle Earth to being an above average sword fighter. That said Tolkien's Galadriel has a detailed backstory and a distinguished mentor she trained under in order to explain why she's basically the most powerful non-Maia in Middle Earth.

[@LaffeeTaffeeGG]

THIS. Tolkien's Galadriel's power always seemed rooted in wisdom and magic, not girlbossing with a giant sword. Just seeing Galadriel with a sword feels... weird. In RoP I was really hoping to see that addressed. Maybe see her attempt to girlboss and get her ass massively handed back to her, only for her to find her strength in strategy and leadership while also building power through magic, not physical force. Make it make sense that Celebrimbor would want to give all three rings to Galadriel first due to her willpower and wisdom, not out of sheer accident due to Gil-Galad's butterfingers.

[@Kaitou1412Fangirl]

"Tricking people into thinking they're terrible for not liking their boring girl power [I'll add "or any other kind of power" here] fanfiction is rather abusive." And this is why I subscribed! Facts.

[@tutuadefolalu3661]

Agreed! Guilting people into doing anything is pretty manipulative behavior. But especially when you add a false sense of morality to whatever you’re selling.

[@Tethloach1]

Guilting people into doing things is a common cheap tactic of control. You lose if you do nothing and lose if you act, doing nothing is hard but the right choice.

[@Tethloach1]

@@tutuadefolalu3661 How to avoid it, being controlled, and compromising . You can't please everyone. Be a bit selfish. Have self restraint and discepline. Tell people no, as many times as it takes. Stand firm in your beliefs. Reach mutual understanding. Accept that things will be hard.

[@davfree9732]

I went to my favourite restaurant and ordered a steak with a side order of fries and a Isn’t beer. In response the chef emerged from the kitchen, dropped trou, and squatted over my plate. On getting up to leave The chef yelled that I shouldn’t judge his food as it wasn’t out yet and that if I left I was patently evil… This has been happening in many restaurants, all have a unique means of guilting their customer to stay. None of which hides the fact their working model is ‘eat our crap’

[@johnstrawb3521]

@Kaitou1412Fangirl It's far worse than that, friend. RoP is fraught with misandry and anti-white racism. Race swapping whites out of roles takes the position that white experience is irrelevant, is all fundamentally the same, and is not worth depicting---that whites are less in their humanity than persons of color. It's the kind of thinking that in fact is the foundation of all racism

[@DavidM_10]

"The characters we like in girl-power stories tend to be male." That's exactly how I felt after watching the first episodes of She-Hulk and Rings of Power. The characters I liked the most were Bruce Banner and Elrond: they both came across as humble and flawed and therefore likeable compared to their arrogant and powerful female counterparts.

[@pigwhaleg]

They really did in Elrond wrong in the hairstyle section💀

[@cranberryrosebud]

@@pigwhaleg I thought elf hair was long, who's cutting his hair regularly to keep it in a boy-band swoop? I'm seriously starting to believe that modern writers/stylists have no idea what they're doing when it comes to classical fantasy.

[@pigwhaleg]

@@cranberryrosebud and even if they DID cut it short, hair doesn’t go up and back like that without hairspray

[@cranberryrosebud]

@@pigwhaleg well, obviously they have hairspray out in the elven forest, and a picture of young Harry Styles as a reference, Tolkien wrote that in the book!

[@trianglemoebius]

​@@pigwhaleg Per Tolkien, elves keep their hair long as a part of their culture. An elf cutting their hair short is like an Amish man shaving his beard, or an Orthodox Jew not wearing headwear in public: it's not just a middle finger their beliefs, it's an ACTIVE REJECTION of such For an elf to cut their hair short is for an elf to say "I Am Not Part of This Culture". It's done in cases like exile or dishonour (in which their right to call themselves an elf is stripped from them), or active rebellion (in which case they're stripping their Elvish-ness from themselves). It is NOT done for fashion.

[@heraldofwar]

I like how no one else lost a loved one or close friend with the battle with Sauron, a huge war but only she was the most affected!

[@tunguskalumberjack9987]

You sound like a total racist How dare you 😂

[@CloudWalkBeta]

You broke me with that cliche XD women most affected (as always) You won the internet today, but the war continues XD

[@emberfist8347]

That is why in certain stories where they try this backstory that someone hates X because they lost people in big event is stupid to me. Boo-hoo you lost someone, join the damn cue. For example Batman v. Superman. Batman's motivation for hating Superman is so shallow to me because ignoring how it contradicts what we see in Man of Steel (We see in that movie building Zod collapsed with heat vision was empty) and the fact he should have been stopping the aliens as Batman, but he isn't the only person who lost employees during that attack. I will bet you the Daily Planet lost staff during Zod's attack but they still don't hate Superman.

[@meleagant718]

Not to mention that poor celeborn who was left unmentioned until episode 6 or 7, like you are sad from the loss of your brother but don’t care about your husband ? Psycho alert

[@Konpekikaminari]

@@CloudWalkBeta funny thing is, this trope can be done right If used as an opening for the villain to remind our hero they aren't special for losing someone

[@harmonicarchipelgo9351]

It's astonishing how much more compelling this version of the story is while still maintaining the exact same plot and scenes as the original. The devil is in the details I guess.

[@LiteratureDevil]

Always

[@hoppa_2184]

@@LiteratureDevil The "Literature Devil" is in the details! xD Alright, I'mma see myself out. =3

[@tranz2deep]

The devil is in the *_writing details_* as this is, after all, the Literature Devil.

[@chazzitz-wh4ly]

All he did was make her be accountable for her actions and showed her with some weaknesses but very obvious strengths. Funny how something so basic lifts up the narrative by so much.

[@lubue5795]

This "it's the audience's fault and not he author's" is the same as if a chef was mad at the customer for not liking his food.

[@davfree9732]

When the chef dropped trou, squatted over my plate and screamed at me to stay till it was out and that if I left I was evil… … I decided to learn to cook like a chef. Because I’m tired of their crap.

[@insulttothehumanrace3807]

Now, the chef might have a point if it was a meticulously constructed dish with well-chosen ingredients, that we didn't like because our tastes aren't fit... but this show isn't that, it's cobbled garbage that we don't like because it's cobbled garbage.

[@Lobsterwithinternet]

@@davfree9732 So Amy’s Baking Company?

[@veryangryduckpl2122]

@@davfree9732 Damn, his character development just started. He is going to become the best chef in Congo.

[@Mralien401337]

Ive made a very similar comparison years ago when i said their subverting my expectations was like me going to a steakhouse ordering a juicy beef steak and then getting shit on a plate. And then when i pointed this out the chef cries about it because im clearly too stupid to understand their genius. im the customer, you dont give me my steak and i dont have to stick around.

[@cathygrandstaff1957]

For the boat scene I would actually have the children building and racing boats, Galadriel would be doing well, beating challenger after challenger until one boat beats her’s. This boat would belong to Finrod, her brother, and would set up a sibling rivalry in which she is always trying to catch up to him. This rivalry becomes part of her reason for taking up his sword, not only is she trying to avenge her brother but in doing so she will show she’s surpassed him.

[@wzx6x6z6w]

Here's the thing, the modern feminists want people to believe that women were born with superior quality over men, and women are only shown inferior than men is because the patriarchy forces them to be that way. Having her beaten by her own brother will pretty much devalue their statement right there

[@sorboom]

Fantastic

[@janinebelleestrada7096]

It would be great but the writers probably didn't hsve any idea on what good to write

[@kozlorog]

If you the writers were to adopt your idea, Galadriel would kick her brothers ass in a fist fight and take his sword.

[@CleverGirlAAH]

It makes it sound like you want her to have "Chair-ick-ter" I think is how it's pronounced. And we don't do that here.

[@TheLegendaryBillCipher]

"Secretly?" My guys, there's a _feminist reviewer_ who's called her a Mary Sue _and_ a Karen. That's how bad and how blatant it is.

[@dominicansolx]

It's a joke. The quotation marks in the title on the word secretly means that he is being sarcastic.

[@smythharris2635]

Being obseisant, to be accurate, via supposed irony.

[@marraduse2519]

@@smythharris2635 'obseisant' doesn't seem to be a genuine word. Did you mean, 'obeisant'?

[@dingfeldersmurfalot4560]

@@marraduse2519 Ah yes, the spelling errors we've all come here for and seek everywhere.

[@Shiirow]

"Galadriel is secretly a mary sue" That has to be the worlds worst kept secret.

[@DarkKitarist]

Just that one picture of Cate Blanchet being Galadriel, with the sun shining through a small part of her ear conveys two important things, that Cate Blanchet totally owned the role, and the second one being that the Peter Jackson knows how to frame and film characters in such a way they feel absolutely real! And the most epic thing is that the original trilogy cost less than 1/3 of The Rings of Power...

[@vla1ne]

i have never written a story in my life, and i could still take only 1/4th the budget of this series and put out a massively better series based upon the lord of the rings.

[@marraduse2519]

peter jackass is an lame imbecile who stood on the shoulders of a giant to achieve what he achieved (and that was done with most people not realising how much he disrespected Tolkien *and* the very people who bought tickets for his films). Galadriel was supposed to be incredibly beautiful. Has Cate Blanchet ever made it onto a single list of most beautiful women? I think not. Thus, casting her was objectively questionable (and she certainly didn't work for me). I think she's about a 6 out of 10. Given how little acting she was required to do, a smarter director would have cast a cheap newcomer based on her appearance.

[@DannySmith-]

@@vla1ne I second that. Amazon, get this man a show!

[@DarkKitarist]

@@DannySmith- If you're talking about Peter Jackson, they tried to sign him as a director or something, but they wouldn't send him anything they wrote for the episodes and then ghosted him...

[@DannySmith-]

@@DarkKitarist I heard about that. Rather scummy behavior.

[@jayt9608]

I just finished rereading Dracula and have been meditating on the character of Mina Harker. Yes, she often remarks that she is a 'mere weak woman', but every man including her husband is impressed with her strength of will and mental fortitude. At one point she is the one who does more to keep up the spirits of the party than anyone else, though hers is the greatest suffering. Further, she has no interest in being a mere eye candy nor is she his rival. Her every intent is to join him in his endeavors as a loving partner, and becomes the queen of train schedules not just locally but all Britain and even remote foreign lands. She confesses that she is more emotional as a woman, but bears up with few cracks in her facade so that she will not make the struggle worse. Further, she accurately deduces Dracula's plans multiple times and is an accurate guide to Dracula's rough location. At the very end of the book she is even holding a gun on those transporting Dracula's coffin and is fully ready and able to pull the trigger, thus participating in her own deliverance as well as the men. Lucy herself nor her mother are no mere distressed damsels, though they might at first so appear to be. Dracula is forced to place Lucy in a trance because her morals and will are such that she would have never yielded to his pressure. Three men view her as a wonder woman to marry and her options include a Texan who is more than likely to prize a woman that is capable of working alongside him at home, the master of a mental institution who believes that she could withstand the strain of his profession, and a young nobleman whose father has no objection to her as a match, which indicates a degree of sophistication and capability. She never voluntarily accepts Dracula's advantage, nor is she quickly killed, but instead fights long past the point expected by even Van Helsing. Further, she does not emotionally collapse after knowing death of her mother nor after Arthur is barred from kissing her. In fact she attempts to care for the servants and takes care of her mother's body as best she can, even though she knows that she is soon facing death alone. She even attempts to make her mother's last days as peaceful as possible by attempting to hide her own decline. Her mother by comparison is informed weeks before the story that she is in her final days and attempts to keep her daughter happy and focused on her own issues. She also never makes any demands of people because of her condition, and even seems determined to carry on her life as long as she can making life better for others, such as her going to visit others in the community. When Lucy becomes bedfast, her mother takes everything well and helps as best she can,even if her "help" is ill-advised. At the last, she is by her daughter's side trying to comfort her during her illness with no thought of her own condition. None of these three women are strong in the masculine sense of the word, but I do not find them to be weak limpless floundering frills either. All three are nurturing, caring, courageous, strong, determined women who were neither afraid of hardship and death nor when they were not as capable as men. They also were not ashamed to be proud and supportive of their men when they were doing the hard tasks, and this made the men in their lives love and fight all the harder for them. Strong woman does not need to do the role of a man, but can stand beside him and supplement his strength with her own.

[@markuhler2664]

It may sound like a silly comparison to a classic tale like Dracula but the way you describe Lucy is how I saw Lady Isobel in the Doctor Who episode, "Tooth and Claw." She is initially locked up with the servants and needs a little goading from Rose to get away from the werewolf. Once free but stuck in the kitchens she initially comforts the maids & cooks to encourage them and to maintain their self-control. She then realized the monks are using mistletoe to control the wolf and directs them to take the scraps left over from them & boil what's left to make a weapon against the beast. She momentarily saves her husband and the Queen herself (!) with the mistletoe-laced water. At the end she is commissioned by the Queen to build the Torchwood Institute to defend Britain against further alien attacks. Queen Victoria herself reminds the Doctor that she has fought off several assassination attempts herself and defends herself with a pistol against the werewolf.

[@loganw1232]

Need to read the Dracula book then, the 1990s movie did the girls injustice than.

[@Trollificusv2]

@@loganw1232 As, sadly, did the original 1932 version. I doubt Bram Stoker was an ardent feminist (probably a supporter of suffragettes though) but he clearly had an idea of how human beings could be good examples of their genders. The excellent perception Jay shares here is that such virtues as courage, persistence, dedication to task, loyalty and compassion manifest themselves _differently_ in men and women. The error these modern "grrrl powar" movies make is in thinking they have to show women exhibiting these virtues (as well as strength and aggression) in a manly way. And the lack-of-character of the filmmakers is shown in how they feel they must humiliate, emasculate and beclown all the males around the female characters. That's not part of good story telling, or character building, it's just a flaw of bitter, hateful, shallow women.

[@javonyounger5107]

I see a similar issue in a lot of amateur work, the writer tries so hard to make the character look cool but fails to notice that a character overcoming struggles often makes them look more impressive than a character succeeding with little effort.

[@jrconway3]

I did this in my first draft of my still unfinished fantasy novel. I actually got complaints from a couple people I shared it with that I made the main character too powerful and didn't show any flaws at all and she was better than everyone else. I'm well aware of Mary Sue tropes and hate them, I never had that intention, but as an amateur writer I didn't do a good job of handling proper development and flaws, and also ensuring other characters look as powerful as the main character.

[@sigmacademy]

​@@jrconway3 The issue with making characters powerful, is that you need a reason WHY they are that way, and what the implications of that will be. Example: an evil king or queen might have a powerful army that they use to keep the kingdom docile and in line, but the very same cruelty and ruthlessness the army or the royalty uses, also forces a Resistance to come into existence, either because some people refuse to be grinded into dust or are victims of that cruelty (Robin Hood is a good example of this). If you have a hero or heroine who is powerful or carries a powerful weapon or has a powerful ability, what prevents them from abusing that power (having a mentor that teaches you the benefits or pitfalls of usage of such power is usually necessary), or does abusing that power come with tragic consequences (Spiderman) that leads to the hero or heroine learn to use their power more responsible or try to suppress it in fear of hurting anyone else? Also, for every powerful hero, you need a powerful villain (aka what I call the Sherlock vs Moriarty setup). That villain can be a mirror image of the hero (Batman/Joker), or it can be a complex villain with moral ambiguity that might become an ally in the future (Scar, from the second and third live-action Fullmetal Alchemist being a good example) or it can be someone who is a family member or someone who is close to the hero like a former lover or friend that forces the hero to come to terms with previous actions taken or puts a difficult choice in the hero's/heroine's path in the present. Either the hero/ine or the villain doesn't ALWAYS need to be the ultimate physical specimen, but can be an average person or someone who controls an organization of people who does all the heroic stuff (Prof X in X-men, for example), and not all actions are necessary physical - sometimes an action can be a political one, an economic one, a spiritual one, etc. that either seek to help or hinder the hero/ine or place obstacles in the path of the villain or any of his or her lieutenants. Take Alien for example. For every obstacle that Ripley faces, the next challenge will be bigger and more deadly than the previous one she faced, which means that in order to survive, she HAS to rise up to the occasion, and that means learning new skills and acquiring the knowledge necessary to successfully overcome the current obstacle in her way. Not only is she facing a character journey in every movie, but she is also facing a much bigger character journey and character development across the franchise, in very much the same way that Laurie Strode is completing her journey in a final showdown in the upcoming Halloween movie.

[@Killerbee_McTitties]

@@sigmacademy Another cool Method is making a character comically powerful but make his power useless to the fulfillment of his desires.

[@miriamweller812]

@@jrconway3 A powerful character is no problem pe se. The worst kind of Mary Sues are actual pretty normal - then still just succeed. The most vital point is, that your story and charactera and what is happening is reasonable. You can have a powerful charater, that is fine, of course you must be careful, that it doesn't become boring, since overall, a story is about struggle in all kind of ways, not just a walk in the park, what might be chill but, well... isn't really exciting to read about. Of course if your character is just good at everthing, even more for no reason, well...

[@miriamweller812]

@@sigmacademy Big problem with powerful rulers is, when they reach Mary Sue level, that it often involves that they just know everything and got absurd master plan running, which actually do not really make much sense and would only work when absolutely everything happens and everyone acted as they had planed. Skyfall as example got such a stupid master plan from the bad guy, even worse because it demanded for perfect timing of many events and absolute stupidity of his enemies. Afterall: the main problem of a Mary Sue isn't even, that he or she is good at thing. The main problem is, that the story forces everyone else to be stupid. Take an extremely powerful protector of a kingdom who even does everythin to be prepared, got their army of guards and spies running, got immense powers themselve, so overall a very powerful character. The thing is: someone who does want to bring down that kingdom will see that powerful character as the main obstacle and by that does everything to analyze the weaknesses or way around all that power, maybe manipulation, maybe distraction, maybe traps and so on. So as long as you have a smart antagonists, even a powerful protagonist can work. And the other way around.

[@GamingGardeningAndLayingSiege]

It amazes me that merely listening to your rough rewrite of Galadriel's plot and how it intersects with Elrond nearly brought me to tears, while the actual show is a complete joke... the contrast is staggering. Lore breaking timeline shenanigans aside of course.

[@olafgurke4699]

And lore breaking characterisation. As he said, we're going ignore their complete disregard of the lore, and just take a look at how bad it is from a technical point of view.

[@metazoxan2]

@@olafgurke4699 Exactly. When the shows defenders aren't calling people sexist or racist they are saying they are just demandings nerds obsessed with the lore. BUt putting aside the fact that following the lore of a series of books made entirely for the sake of crafting a vast lore is REALLY DAMN IMPORTANT ... you can still get an objectively good story without following the lore ... you just have to know a single thing about writing.

[@olafgurke4699]

@@metazoxan2 Exactly. If you adapt an existing work, you are bound by the lore of that work. Otherwise, it's misbranded. And even if we would ignore the big LotR name on this series, it would still be a badly written show, resulting in a mediocre standard fantasy series at best. I'd really like to know where all their budget went into. It clearly wasn't used to pay for competence.

[@BarkingCur]

An excellent, detailed explanation for why "Mary Sues" as characters are never intriguing or memorable. It seems Hollywood desperately wants a standout female lead in contemporary entertainment, yet they refuse to place any significant obstacles in these heroines' paths or allow them to fail. They just want these champions to be awesome from start to finish. But the reality is, we may admire a character for their successes and abilities, but we identify with a character for their losses and their vulnerabilities. Rising back up and persevering to overcome against impossible odds is what makes a character endearing. Succeeding in every fight without effort makes a character forgettable.

[@CloudWalkBeta]

I think thats why league of legends series,,, was it arcanna? Did so well, the main cast despite being female, did fail, and they did suffer consequences. these marie sue examples by comparison are just not interesting in the slightest, sadly the writers are also clueless, and they are so used to nobody liking their work that they already have racist and sexist cards ready to be used to drown out any critique against their atrocious writing, it hurts all the more because they keep doing it to beloved franchise after beloved franchise.

[@Konpekikaminari]

my go to saying is- we want a "strong female *character",* not a *"strong* female character"

[@metazoxan2]

That's why WOnderwoman stood out as a memoriable movie. Yes she's super human, and obviously stronger than mortal men, but she struggles and fails and makes mistakes. We still get to see her grow and overcome adversity that she falls to at first.

[@AzureRoxe]

It's amazing how, after the massive failure and backlash to the Star Wars Disney Trilogy, Hollywood STILL doesn't understand.

[@andyrwebman]

One of the best examples of a good female role was Sarah Connor in Terminator. Terminator 1 - out of the blue, a relentless cyborg suddenly starts trying to kill her. Hardly a chance to catch her breath, and survives by the skin of her teeth, Terminator 2 - she's had more time to become experienced with weapons. However, still very human and fallible. Gets herself locked inside an asylum trying to blow up CyberDyne and saver the world. Despite being imprisoned and drugged from time to time, she picks her moment and holds the psychiatrist to ransom with improvised bleach in a syringe - and blusters her way out of the prison. Yes, she needed to be rescued by Arnie's cyborg, but hey, who wouldn't when there's a liquid metal Terminator coming after us? Following that she fights with grit, determination, and self sacrifice. This is what you have do do to get a good female lead : you have to recognise that if she truly takes on the forces of evil, she;s going to get badly hurt, at least as badly as a dude. You have to have her use her ingenuity and skill to overcome the fact that she's less physically strong than the men she'll be fighting. Overcoming these odds is what makes a hero.

[@HaythamKenway383]

Gotta love how the grand-daughter of the literal High King of the Noldor gets bullied as a child. Also gotta love how Elrond is the grandson of the last King of Doriath, the great grandson of the previous High King of the Noldor, son of the elf who killed the largest dragon of all time, brother of the King of Numenor, and cousin of the current High King of the Noldor... is denied a seat on the elven council.

[@random.3665]

Well duuh, i mean, he is a guuuuy. urrgh...

[@chazzitz-wh4ly]

From his point of view the elves are evil.

[@HaythamKenway383]

@@chazzitz-wh4ly Then he is lost!

[@rahn45]

Thing is I'm not sure if the writers were trying to make Galadriel heroic, or a villain... I think if someone was to play nefarious music and made her eyes glow purple slightly in a lot of her conversations would be like she's mind-controlling those around her.

[@Mridul.S]

They were trying to make her heroic, but they didn't know how to do it. because Heroes are always Flawed and imperfect. They make mistakes and many times they're wrong and they learn from it. that's the reason why they're so likeable. and Galedriel lacks all of that. their intention was to make her Badass and Heroic but everyone found her Unlikable, Annoying, Arrogant and Obnoxious.

[@RoninDave]

As I wrote in a long post, if Galadriel is supposed to be a Mary Sue or "empowered woman fighting the patriarchy" they did a really bad job of it as they have made her a terrible person who makes terrible decisions with little realization of her mistakes. We are supposed to see her quest as ultimately right because we know thanks to the benefit of hindsight/foresight that Sauron definitely returns so the men are just plain wrong in mutinying against her and sending her off to retirement. However, if her men had not mutinied against her, Galadriel would have gone further north on a wild frozen goose chase. If she had gone to Valinor she wouldn't have caused the Numenoreans to go on a poorly planned military expedition that got people killed and the Queen blinded which will lead to her downfall. So far, she's been wrong and she's caused more havoc with little realization of her mistakes.

[@pigwhaleg]

Diana from Grimm moment

[@DavidSmith-mt7tb]

This seems to be common among a lot of girl power stories. You can't tell if they are being low key satirical or not because the story they are writing with the intent to show you how you should aspire to be is lead by a character that is unlikable and does things you know are just not right. She Hulk is also like this. When she complains about how she has to deal with more anger than Bruce ever has, she is actually spouting neofeminist rhetoric you are supposed to side with, but knowing Bruce's story, it's obvious who's actually in the right, and the fact that she loses her temper when she says how much better she is at controlling it actually proves Bruce's case, even though that was not the writers' intent. And this seems so obvious to anyone not indoctrinated in that philosophy that they are likely to assume the writers also must have realized this, and, therefore, actually intended it. In which case they would be satirizing the girl power Mary Sue. Watching these things as satire is the only way they make sense within the realm of classic literary storytelling. But the writers are so disconnected from that it's actually not what they're trying to do.

[@esldogrescues]

It's because the writers themselves aspire to be what we consider villains. But villains are usually heroes in their own stories - their rage is righteous and they are called to vengeance. And the writers either haven't grown up with, or have rejected, traditional morality and heroism, so they have no moral compass, and this is reflected in their "stories." But the writers' jobs require them to write heroes, and so they write their twisted, weak versions - not anti-heroes (which can be great), but characters with all the characteristics of supervillains except for the overt evil. If she didn't have the greater evil of Sauron to fight, TRoP galadriel would be fighting constant battles against her fellow children, the other elves, and generally grounding down everyone around her, the way modern "activists" do. So yes, she's a villain because she's a power-fantasy of people without a moral compass.

[@EdiTheDon]

Guyladriel's attacking her fellow kids is actually the start of villians I.e. an over reaction to a small problem

[@Lobomaru02]

17:12 Elrond is _most certainly_ an Elf Lord. He was the Herald of Gil-Gallad, the last High King of the Noldor. And that is on top of being the son of Earendil the Mariner, who convinced the Valar to aid against Morgoth, leading to the War of Wrath. Earendil was also the one to slay Ancalagon the Black, the greatest dragon who ever lived. A dragon so massive that his falling corpse crushed the Thangorodrim and Angband with them.

[@olafgurke4699]

A dragon so massive, Smaug is to him what an ant is to a human, give or take.

[@charliecharliewhiskey9403]

Just to note, an actually good commander would insist on training their troops if they were lacking, out of a conscientious care for their wellbeing. If they didn't IRL, they *would* be talked about by other commanders on that basis. People wouldn't be jealous of her, they'd be annoyed, because every rational captain through general understands that they cannot plan battles properly unless the skill of the soldiery is a known quantity.

[@skyereave9454]

Caesar famously trained his legions while on campaign to deal with new threats they would face.

[@secretlyslavic]

She was hiding it so well.

[@Ostentatiousnessness]

She clearly learned secrecy from Ryuji Sakamoto.

[@Monty_Humble]

@@Ostentatiousnessness who?

[@bluelanternguardianangel8038]

Galadriel: I am when I do this *covers part of her face with a shroud*

[@TealWolf26]

I never knew...

[@VainerCactus0]

@@Ostentatiousnessness For Real?

[@frankg2790]

13:46 You are correct. If you're chasin' the apprentice to someone who is basically Satan across what is basically a super continent, you bring your best men, not some random grunts. It makes no sense for her to single-handedly kill enemies that can wipe out entire squads of elite soldiers who have survived centuries of war. Even fatigue ain't an excuse, as she had walked the same distance as they had and is still able to walk through a blizzard pretty fine.

[@LiteratureDevil]

Thank you! So many "gotcha" comments trying to debunk the video seem to have not watched that particular section lol.

[@katyushamarikov8819]

The bullied because you're better is a trope that was done well in the novel Ender's Game. The bullying was targeted by the adults in the situation and made Ender fight for himself against the bullies of the battle school. He had to understand that no one was coming to save him. That was the lesson of getting singled out for his excellence: he couldn't get help, even from the adults who were supposed to be helping him.

[@editorrbr2107]

that is an outstanding example.

[@nicokrasnow1851]

And he actually paid a price psychologically and legally for his excessive self-defence

[@Kyle-sr6jm]

? They covered up Bonso's death They pushed Ender until he collapsed. They had to send him back to earth, because he was on the brink of completely not giving any more F#@$

[@nicokrasnow1851]

@@Kyle-sr6jm I'm saying at the end, he went on trial and was pretty much exiled. And showed PSTD during the novel

[@bestaround3323]

@@nicokrasnow1851 Then he tried to make ammends with the very civilization he helped genocide.

[@Krystalmyth]

*This is why I loved Alita: Battle Angel.* This was the female empowerment fantasy story that works. She literally loses a fight so hard most her body is literally shattered. Which opens the path to her mature form, her real potential realized due to her fall. Without it, she literally couldn't have ever grown. Had she cowered, she would have stayed a doll in the eyes of the world instead of the weapon she truly was. It does this without harming men, as she lovingly cherishes the men in her life to the point of it inspiring her to grow stronger for them. Traditional writing perfectly executed with a female lead. I love this movie. Please cover it~

[@lheonardot1740]

A side note on canon Galadriel physical superiority, it is that she is a Noldor born in the age of Trees. Elves from that time had far stronger fëa, or spirit. In some ways, it can be considered as her body and magic have an intrisic superior quality to elves born after that time, or away from Valinor. Some elves were so blessed that enduring a few blows from a Valar, like Fingolfin did with Morgoth was possible. Still, it was not explained in the series so that point is moot, and even if it was explained, natural superiority still needs to be refined into something usable, which was not showed either.

[@insulttothehumanrace3807]

And, you'd think the other kids there would be just a little bit more respectful of a Noldor princess, not laughing at her and bullying her...

[@Penuruloki]

To expand on this, this blessing comes from living in the light of the two trees in Valinor; the power of this blessing light is why the silmarils (which contain the light of the two trees) are so desirable to begin with. Lore does note that Galadrial's hair seemed to capture the light of the trees as well, suggesting a source of her privilege of power. Indeed, Feanor (her Uncle) requests a lock of her hair before he makes the silmarils, which she refuses; this gives important context to Gimli's request in Lord of the Rings, which she chooses to grant. The video compared her to a hero who was damaged by witnessing the death of girls he could not save, but Galadrial has a similar story when she encounters the Kinslaying: her mother's kin being slain by her Uncle Feanor so he could sieze their boats (her seafaring ancestry necessarily impacts the meaning of the paper boat, as might the reputation of craftsmanship on her father's side, especially the hated Uncle). The Kinslaying btw, is one of the few bits of lore that supports the establishment of Galadrial as a warrior at all, as she is said to have come to the defense of her mother's kin. Feanor does, however, succeed in taking the boats. This encounter, and knowing that her departure to Middle Earth (against the command of the Valar) and fight against Morgoth follows the path of Feanor and his sons could have added dramatic tension and internal conflict; following the same path of those she despises, largely to seek power and command for herself, while refusing to recognize the similarities. One of the issues that comes up though, is that Amazon doesn't seem to have the rights to any of this material, only the material of the second age. We can point out the shortcomings of the story as assembled by the writers in response, but much of the canon work they could have built on was likely unavailable.

[@znail4675]

The other elf kids were obviously born around the same time as her so would have similar power.

[@ForeverLaxx]

@@Penuruloki Even if they had access to it, they would have ignored it, misinterpreted it, or bastardized it. They weren't interested in adapting the story as Tolkien envisioned it. Remember, they've already decided that he was a racist by this point. Their goal in making this was to "prove" that Tolkien's stories were now theirs and not his; that they own Middle Earth and not the fans. That's all it's ever been about for years in nerd culture.

[@rb98769]

Ultimately even if her being flawless is somehow warranted and justified, it still comes down to how that is supposed to make for a good story.

[@talongrey7492]

Your rewrite was beautiful. A glimpse into what could have been if someone who loved and respected Tolkien were to have written this show. Galadriel is one of my favorite female characters along with aowen because they are strong and powerful in their own right while still shining with feminine grace and delicate beauty. They are women worth fighting and dying for. Women who empower others by their wisdom and devotion... what we have now is angry and spiteful men portrayed by dainty women who's power lies not in their wisdom, beauty and guile but rather their ability to always be the better fighter of men or the angrier or more entitled. I hope true female representation returns to entertainment. It is sorely missed.

[@NintenUnity]

We all need a based Achilles in our lives

[@billy65bob]

Considering how almost every scene revolves around making her look good, I find it difficult to believe her mary sue status is a "secret" at all.

[@brianstamper6841]

This.

[@trianglemoebius]

@@brianstamper6841 That's why it's in quotes, to show it's being used sarcastically. Like if I was to just say: Wow, that's a "fantastic" observation about the title, you'd probably get what I meant (and take it as somewhat ruder than this comment).

[@AliRadicali]

For a functional bullying scene, the victim doesn't have to be lesser, just physically weaker. In many cases, the victim draws the ire of the bully by surpassing them in some way, EG being smarter in school, having rich parents, being friends with the cute girl, etc. I don't understand why we need a bullying trope among the elves to begin with, but Galadriel brutally beating the bully defeats any purpose other than perhaps setting her up as some sort of psychopathic villain.

[@ForeverLaxx]

Interestingly, most "heroes" written by wokeists end up being a much better fit as a villain. They always get their way, they're always exerting their superior power, everyone cowers before them, etc etc. It's part of the Power Fantasy. You're just expected to call them a hero because *they* call them a hero.

[@AliRadicali]

@@ForeverLaxx I always get a kick out of strong female characters who act like the very worst caricature of "toxic masculinity", but of course because it's a woman somehow we're supposed to admire it. At its core wokeness is about double standards. Their power fantasy is having enough power/status not to be beholden to the rules they make everyone else suffer under.

[@orrorsaness5942]

@@ForeverLaxx It’s kinda like Pensuke. He’s officially a villain because A. he’s written by someone who isn’t woke and B. He is in a distant Madoka Magica universe.

[@orrorsaness5942]

@@AliRadicali Lmao

[@iancummings6864]

Vin from Mistborn is a perfect example of a well written, powerful, female character who isn't a Mary Sue.

[@Konpekikaminari]

This Vin is a great character

[@KuraiLunae]

Was not expecting a Cosmere reference here today! Vin is one of my absolute favorite characters across any of Sanderson's books. Spensa from Skyward, too, which is a great sci-fi example to contrast Vin's fantasy one.

[@shubhamgupta-fs3ml]

Give her to typical incompetent Hollywood writers and she will come across as most obnoxious Mary Sue.

[@jamesbaxter5147]

My goodness. I knew Rings of Power was bad, but to this extent? Thank you for your noble sacrifice in watching this, sparing us from such a fate, lol.

[@GamingGardeningAndLayingSiege]

...in my humble opinion this show has to be one of, if not the most insulting pieces of fiction put to film. It only gets worse with each passing episode. LD only really focused on the beginning of this mess. The later episodes feeling I'm watching a schizophrenic dementia fueled fever dream of nonsense, where the actors forget they've spoken lines of dialog that contradict the show they are in just seconds before. I highly recommend continuing to not watch it.

[@nicholasdonohue4997]

This show should come with a disclaimer warning viewers that the show may cause eye and brain cancer

[@jeffjefferson2853]

I'm gonna be real here. The show is really damn good...as a comedy. I know I'm bad for giving them views, but this show can be damn hilarious. The mithril retcon was too funny to get mad at. You can make a drinking game with all the tired tropes this show uses. Yeah you'd die of alcohol poisoning, but you could still try. The Galadriel scenes are far too cringe for me to be angry at. This show can be so goddam boring that it circles back around and becomes entertaining (for all the wrong reasons)

[@janeenschultz8502]

If you want a fuller understanding of this bastardization of a series, watch Just Some Guy.

[@dovilevasiliauskaite5205]

@@jeffjefferson2853 Same for me. I quite liked ROP. The dialog, the plot, the music... it was so consistently bad it went from bad to funny.

[@jakomioftherose2434]

They didn't make Galadriel. They created Rey as an elf.

[@AegisKHAOS]

Apparently Guyladriel was such a bully that even a volcano was afraid to kill her.

[@SgtGigawattz]

I'd love to see a "girl power" movie or show where the Mary Sue eventually gets to critical mass and actually manages to become the antagonist, only reflecting on her actions at length when she's *finally* being brought down by the *actual* protagonists. So many girl power protagonists would often make for great villains rather than great heroes, I think that'd be a great setup to subvert expectations. Like imagine if Galadriel actually used magic to become Sauron and later another female elf, one who has been most just a lowly soldier, rose to command through actual concern for her peers and subordinates in combat, struggled in combat despite how trained she was but knew her true strength was the loyalty and respect that her soldiers had for her but also the very same she felt for them, with Elrond coming to her aid and befriending her due to the mutual respect and friendship she showed him. It's only when Sauron (once Galadriel) sees Elrond fighting against him, side by side with the new "Galadriel" (more on that in a bit), that Sauron is essentially distracted enough, mostly with disbelief at the "arrogance and insufferable incompetence" of Elrond for not being there to have his genitals flattened, that someone uses the moment to chop off the ring of power, the very item that allowed Sauron to maintain *her* status as Sauron. Later, in hindsight of how history might read if the truth of the matter was made public, the name of Galadriel was given to the female commander who *earned* her victory, earned respect, and yet showed humility, with the actual Galadriel forever dubbed as Sauron to essentially tarnish her and strike her image from the collective memory of Middle Earth forever more.

[@random.3665]

A modern show would never retcon the supreme evil overlord having been a woman the whole time. Women are only allowed to be evil if we understand that it wasnt their fault, they were deceived/missguided/tramutized/whatever, OR if they are the mary-sue protagonist and somehow the showmakers dont even understand how evil those protagonists actions are.

[@DannySmith-]

Reject modernity, embrace traditional storytelling. BEST QUOTE!

[@Ramsey276one]

28:39 XD

[@derkatwork33]

This applies to basically everything in life.

[@liljenborg2517]

I would amend the statement to "reject POSTmodernity, embrace traditional storytelling."

[@willowdigger617]

Unrelated but I love the pfp

[@DannySmith-]

@@willowdigger617 Thanks!

[@lordsangone]

Galadriel has taught me one good lesson in life that I didnt realize til now - smile more. Im just like her and barely smile but I never realized how bad it looks til now. Thanks Literature Devil, keep rockin it steady.

[@vaultkobold5469]

One of the best lines I remember from a book series I read as a kid came from a benevolent alien god like being, "I am the greatest loser in the universe, that is how I came to be what I am."

[@VainerCactus0]

Which series was that?

[@vaultkobold5469]

@@VainerCactus0 Had to look it up from memory, it's been decades. The book is The Ellimist Chronicles from the Animorphs series. The character was Ellimist, he loss a lot. But he won when it counted the most.

[@markuhler2664]

@@vaultkobold5469 Neither my kids nor me have ever read Animorphs, but we have read the tvtropes pages on it. The Nightmare Fuel section is, well, nightmare fuel.

[@kimoralee6066]

The writing reflects the writer - children of an era where they were given everything they ever needed, were praised all the time so they think they are the best always, and were privileged enough to never struggle much for anything they wanted or needed.

[@AliciatheCho]

Literally this. It’s clear they think leadership is being better than everyone else. They have a “might makes right” worldview

[@DeistPaladin]

There are plenty of female examples to draw upon as well, to contrast traditional heroes vs. the modern SJW-Mary-Sue-Karen architype. There's Sarah Conner in Terminator I and II. There's Ripley in the first two Alien movies. These were real strong female characters back when Hollywood was concerned with creating characters. The best and most ironic example is to compare Mulan vs. Mulan. The old cartoon Mulan suffered initial defeat and humiliation, nearly getting drummed out of the army, and overcame through determination and her wits. The new Mulan (live action) was set to God-mode by having all this "Chi" and her only challenge was to stop holding back and let her awesome flag fly.

[@Konpekikaminari]

Original Mulan was amazing

[@klebermarchand]

Looking back at some of the stories I wrote as a teenager, the amount of marie-sues I've made is just incredible. Watching your videos helped me figure out that my concepts and ideas are good, I'm just not proficient in making them work with a "normal" character. That's why I turned to tabletop roleplaying. Since success is less a narrative "because I'm a hero" but the result of a dice roll, my character faces failures and learns humility. I have a lot of fun playing flawed characters, like a cowardly Gungan two steps away from a PTSD attack, or an idealist bard facing the greyest of choices.

[@Avarn388]

LD video hype! Let’s go. In all seriousness the silver lining to bad shows like ROP is that it makes it easy for aspiring writers, like myself, to know what not to do. So for that; I thank you, LD. Your videos are a wealth of wonderful knowledge.

[@johns1625]

"If she put down her sword, Sauron would have returned anyway, just with less warning" Well now that season 1 is done and she literally brought Sauron directly to the exact 1 place he should never be allowed to go, unmasked him, AND THEN DIDN'T TELL ANYBODY, we can safely say She has 1 flaw that always works out in her favor yet she still makes the worst decisions and gets rewarded for it with a ring of power. Lmao.

[@shinian6523]

Great summary of the issues with Galadriel! I'd like to see a summary of how to write the story as closer to what Tolkien might have written. At least in a more lore friendly sense. For instance, she and her husband arrive in ME, daughter in tow. Daughter grows up to the the warrior type while mom and dad are basically in the background doing more political stuff like founding nations. Daughter has romance with Elrond, a fellow soldier... etc.

[@lutek1]

The breaking down felt like a nice roast, but.... my god.... the building up, the rewrite...... fuxking amazing. Almost got emotional. Great work.

[@braddl9442]

"secretly", i thought it was pretty in our faces

[@jrconway3]

Some people make the argument that she's not a "Mary Sue" because not everyone loves her from the start. That is one trait of a Mary Sue, but I think the core issue here is that she's the "bestest evar" and she's always right. The arguments against her being a Mary Sue is her companions leave her, Gilgalad tries to get rid of her, and the Numenorians don't IMMEDIATELY agree to do everything she asks (even though Miriel does give in despite having zero reason to do so).

[@spacejunk2186]

The writing is so terrible is actually masks Galadriels sue-ness. If everything is conteived and makes nonsense, its harder to notice.

[@nightbreed9305]

Wait a minute... I just realized they just repeated the Spock scene in Star Trek 2009. Very original.

[@Alex_Fahey]

"""""Secretly""""" It's about as much of a secret as purple is a sound.

[@UncleJamie]

Purple is a sound?

[@pcachu]

>Wassily_Kandinsky has entered the chat

[@TheSkywardAvenger]

Watching these videos is nice from a literature perspective. Although, I gotta say that I really love the back and forth between Devil and Angel. This video’s segment hits especially hard since the two are willing to play cards with each other.

[@UNJELL]

Now I am ever more sad about ROP because the Galadriel you described is someone I can admire. Instead we have this horrible person that justs insults the original character.

[@elucidator1277]

I wish writers like you were in charge in Hollywood today. It would be a better place.

[@cvernon5256]

Something else to point out is that being a commander removed someone from the battlefield. Her going of on a secret mission would be foolish and others would be selected as the agents. The reasons as to why she is there with the troll, whatever they are, are utterly asinine when you consider that she would have been put off regular battle. Commanders just don't wade into melee.

[@matthiuskoenig3378]

Yes and no, commanders did infact wade into melee fights in ancient and medieval warfare. Even in later wars like the napoleonic wars it was not uncommon for generals to fight in hand to hand combat (infact it was expected for cavalry generals to do so), even napleon himself did it when he was fitter and younger. Caesar did it even when he was an old man... So that is the no, commanders did fight in the front lines, even high ranking ones. But what if the yes? Well you are right that it is odd that she is on a covert mission. A commander of 'the northern armies' (especially note the plural form armies) would not forsake duties of leading that force to go on to lead a small Covert unit, atleast not without loosing the title of commander of the Northern armies. That should be left to a more junior commander.

[@cvernon5256]

@@matthiuskoenig3378 fair, considering I know that Alexander the Great did much the same. Though losing not just an officer but a general destabilizes and can cripple an army. I'm not sure to what extent wholesale slaughter was employed on the battlefield in ancient times. Killing was more of a last resort and opposing forces were more often taken prisoner in colonially. That said, you should expect to be killed or mutated if facing down Melkor and his ilk.

[@cosmicspacething3474]

One thing I hate about this analysis is that I really don’t think being bullied is “humbling” at all, because many people can easily spiral into mental issues like self hatred from it. It’s more of a motivation for the protagonists to get back at the bullies later because they don’t really do anything wrong most of the time, it’s usually the bullies that need humbling.

[@sharkdentures3247]

Q to Picard; "Bravo! You know Jean-Luc? Sometimes I think the ONLY reason I come here is to listen to those wonderful speeches of yours!" Me to Literature Devil, "Yeah. That."

[@sigmacademy]

16:28. The part about Batman before he got trained under the League of Shadows also has 2 additional components: First, the path and way to the LoS main temple was almost unreachable (which is a Trial of Endurance in itself) and then when he FINALLY got there, he needed to prove himself even FURTHER), which meant that Bruce Wayne had to go through Trial by Trial by Trial, as seen in when he rejects the way of the League of Shadow when he sees what they stand for, and then YET again when he rejects the easier way of its leader later on the movie of "cleansing the city" through the League of Shadow's way of doing things - each of those moments being a Trial of Morality - a crossroads he reaches every time there is a moral dilemma he needs to face and how he chooses to respond to said Trial. These Trials, are however, Tests of the character's own personality that travels between what the character wants, versus what the character needs, and finally the things the character needs to face to learn the lessons that he or she needs to successfully get their wants and needs met. It's like in the scene of Highlander where he wants to re-forge his sword, but he KEEPS on failing because he doesn't have the right equipment he needs to successfully complete the task he set for himself. :/

[@RogueFox2185]

“I should have tossed that Elf into the sea where I found her…” -Sir Sniffles THE SEA IS ALWAYS RIGHT!

[@sigmacademy]

A more proper quote would have been: "The Sea is unforgiving. Never forget that."

[@Kemot300]

She survived hot volcanic ash head on, if that does not scream Mary Sue with a plot armor the size of a Star Destroyer than I don't what does.

[@jamoecw]

having Galadriel being helped by her troops is what happens in real life on the front lines. men in combat units with women end up taking on their tasks to help them along, which leads to the unit's performance suffering. this is a political issue that is why they can't have her lag behind, because it speaks of the real world issues of women on the front lines. she also can't be hurt, as women are hurt more often than men even for more mundane tasks like climbing walls. enemy at the gates did a good job of women doing well at their job alongside men due to the difference in tasks (women were snipers, as tended to be the case in real world for that situation). the problem is that the current politics requires that women do what men do but better, and that is why they are always the marry sue and men have to carry the burden of making the story. this is current year, where politics is so polarizing that if don't act a certain way all the time your story is on one side of the political isle, and if they do then you are on the other. there is no middle ground, and given how Hollywood backs one side that means that things have to be a certain way and there can be no variation.

[@lauraandrews1676]

Women are physically different from men. We can't do the heavy lifting like they can. Not only that, but men are made to be protectors of women and yes, as you say, that can be a real hindrance in the middle of a battle. Women have no business being in battle, being soldiers, or acting like men.

[@nslater1388]

Your rewrite of Galadriel was very well done. I pretty much instantly was on her side as she tried to make the damn paper boat over and over.

[@Van_Ghalta]

Appreciate the honesty and well thought-out arguments. You don't see too many of those out there nowadays.

[@harellan6234]

One very small change the writers could have done to give at least a small HINT of character development is Galadriel's soldiers see how she treats them and how she doesn't care about them, and abandons her when she needs them most, either causing her mission to fail or to continue all alone, which might lead to further hardships she endures. but nope. she also receives no backlash for needlessly allowing her soldiers to die.

[@LilithLonelyHeart]

Honestly, for me, there is a much bigger issue at hand in this show and it's that rather than keeping her who she was Galadriel was reworked into this modern-day "female macho" archetype, I lore she never was in the military or anything like this, she did see combat but she was powerfully enough with magic to rely on it, and not exactly sure but I think she faced even some fairly powerful enemies like balrogs (was a while since I read Silmariloin so it's not that fresh in my memory anymore). and having her be powerful wouldn't be really bad, 1st and 2nd generation elves that trained their magic or combat prowess were short of demigods when it comes to how dangerous they were, and Galadriel with her magic was truly up there among these, even in LotR it was acknowledged with the scene where she was presented with the One Ring and she gave brief warning of what could happen if she accepted it, she wasn't exaggerating I think she could even be more powerful and dangerous than Sauron if she gave into temptations of the Ring

[@OgamiItto70]

"...Galadriel, with her magic, was truly up there..." You're dang skippy! The mightiest elf ever was Fëanor and Galadriel was formidable enough to defy him and his hubris.

[@LilithLonelyHeart]

@@OgamiItto70 again, was a while since I read Silmarilion, my point is whoever was the moron behind writing on this show had an opportunity of working with a character powerful in the lore they working with(just in magic and also good at diplomacy) and reduced her to a cutthroat brawler relying mostly on physical strength, that's not just bad writing but also idiocy of not seeing what you have right under your nose

[@OgamiItto70]

@@LilithLonelyHeart Word.

[@nonenone6704]

Actually, she never took part in the war against Morgoth, because she and her husband Celeborn rightly saw it as pointless, the Elves were doomed to lose from the start without help from Valinor. The only few battles she fought in were defensively, first the elf-on-elf massacre, and second when the High Elves first returned to Middle Earth and were attacked by orcs, after that she went to live with the Wood Elves far away from the war. She never fought a Balrog (there were only 7) and likely not even a troll. As for her magic, she studied under Lady Melian, basically an angel like the wizards, balrogs, and Sauron, but again, all her magic was defensive for protecting, hiding, and healing, not for battle directly (though could be used for that somewhat). But yes, she was the second most powerful Elf in history, but it was due to her magic, not to combat.

[@lwivv9052]

Opening scene reminds me a little of the opening scene to the new Tekken anime on Netflix. It starts with Jin getting bullied (ostensibly because he's a bit of an outcast, but as the show explores, really because the village bullies know he's destined for greater things than them), just like Galadriel. And just like Galadriel, he kicks their ass. But unlike Galadriel, he immediately suffers consequences for using his power, by his mother. Thus showing a setup like that CAN work, but only when there's a narrative point to it.

[@ttrev007]

I love that you actually not only explain exactly what the problem is but give a example of a solution. very impressed

[@jothecocopop]

Videos like yours and Critical Drinker where you fix bad storytelling I see as a double-edged sword because while they're amazing and accurate in pointing out issues in character/plot and mending them where necessary, they also frustrate me because it makes me long for the alternate universe in which these stories are what we actually got. In any case, fantastic video as always, LD!

[@CleverGirlAAH]

This is why these gentlemen need to write their own works. Maybe guest write for Eric July, for example.

[@NeroLordofChaos]

An ironic take on the punished with paradise case: Galadriel goes searching for Sauron and he ends up striking someplace nearby after she's left, someplace she could have easily reached had she taken Elrond's advice to hang up her sword. Her obsession to slay Sauron becomes so all encompassing that it blinds her to why she she took up her vow in the first place. In other words, Let her be right... but have that victory turn to ash in her mouth. She could have stopped Sauron... but her desire for revenge _PREVENTED HER_ from stopping him. Extend the scenes with her brother early on, paint him as a peaceful, kind sibling who cares deeply for his sister and, in order to make sure she lives a peaceful life, takes up a sword in the name of the king. Now there's an internal conflict of does she honor her brother's vow to protect the peace of the elves or does she continue on her path of revenge, potentially forsaking everything her brother wanted for her.

[@singletona082]

The thing in the books is Glaadira had failed the test twice before. Her meeting with Frodo was the final test. Only then did she pass. I'm already annoyed they set her up as somehow able to square up vs Sauron, but no sense screaming over a bad movie. I had no interest in Rings of Power before and I have even less now.

[@magosdominusplutos5131]

Can you explain to me what test? I only watched the show until Galadriel begun using kung-fu against the prison guards.

[@singletona082]

@@magosdominusplutos5131 To Resist temptation of Power and corruption. Mind you I do appreciate some changes to give the women of the franchise more agency as Tolkien was.... frankly? A mysoganist by modern standards. But i've no interest in this crap.

[@sigmacademy]

@@singletona082 "Mind you I do appreciate some changes to give the women of the franchise more agency as Tolkien was.... frankly? A mysoganist by modern standards. " Then why do you stomach a show that ACTIVELY shows women in a mysogynistic light? How is making a female character basically a man empowering them in any way whatsoever? "...but no sense screaming over a bad movie." The video neither indicates screaming, or crying about a bad movie, it merely points out the narrative flaws of a scene... something the channel REGULARLY does. Not sure what the flex is here, exactly. :/ "But I've no interest in this crap". Then simply skip the video? There are OTHER people who is interested in it? :/

[@RndmBad]

it's wild how it took you 15+ mins to do a rewrite on the entire first epidoe and I already want to watch this version.

[@raggens]

Granted, Galadriel was already this angelic being with powers beyond anyone else’s control, but the Rings of Power depicts her as this massive asshole who doesn’t give a shit over how many lives she’s actively ruined cuz of her selfish deeds - which goes entirely against her character

[@afelias]

about the Galadriel fixes from 30:00 onwards or so, 1) We can also tie Finrod into it where Galadriel only succeeds when Finrod takes her aside and teaches her that peristence alone won't work, and then takes one of her boats and does the tiniest tweak, and it floats. So Finrod can give his pearl of wisdom here and Galdriel goes back to all her other failed boats and realizes she needed just a little bit of help, but was already so close. She tweaks all the failed boats and they all sail as one fleet (can even make imagery to mirror a Numenorean fleet later in the series) and all the children cheer her on. Then she looks back at Finrod and they share a smile. Then a timeskip happens and Finrod's about to die, to sort of signify that the one person who understood enough to help Galadriel out of her rut is gone. 2) The climbing scene could involve Galadriel seeing all her men get so far ahead that she can't see them in a snowstorm anymore, but she doesn't lose heart. She keeps at it and reaches the top, and she then sees her men waiting for her. And then it could be tied that the men understand her physical weaknesses but respect her for other things, so we can show she's actually a great leader. This is also the scene that she realizes that being left behind isn't just about the one left behind, but the group who is afraid of losing one of their own. So when the snow march happens, Galadriel teaches them to move as one tight group, allowing them to minimize wind resistance and share body heat. Then, with the battle with the troll, Galadriel stays behind as in Dev's version, but then when all hope seems lost, her men come charging back in one group, all of them group tackling/grappling the troll. With the combined weight of multiple elf bodies on the troll, they manage to unbalance it and bring it to the floor, allowing Galadriel to do the kill shot with her sword. Then her second in command gets up and reminds her that they move as one, and the whole group shares a laugh together. 3) Elrond should defend Galadriel while she's there to hear it. Galadriel should be able to witness how Elrond convinces Gil-Galad, both so she can appreciate her friend more and also so she can start to learn about being a peacetime leader.

[@rexnas8150]

Isn't Galadriel considered one of the few elves that didn't take part in "The Kin slaying"? When she had met Feanor, who had conceived the idea of the silmarils in the liking of her hair. And when he had asked for a strand of her hair, she had looked into his heart and mind and refused him. Making this not only giving way to Gimli for being a pure soul, but also showing that she was morally higher than many of her kin. Why not have this within a fall of eden scenario? Make her fellow elves seem like they have the possibility for sin and show how she is either tempted and refuses or she is disgusted by this and wishes to be above violence. Making her different and the ideal by which many, like her brother Finrod and her Husband Celeborn, will strive to be later on. Putting Feanor and others like him to shame.

[@josephpaloma43]

Good job mate, you gave me another reason to hate this show hahahaha

[@rexnas8150]

@@josephpaloma43 glad to be of service, brother😁

[@HalfTangible]

13:18 This could've worked if Galadriel's quest was seen as madness and so she was only given a group of incompetent dregs/recruits the Elven army had no better use for (thus also explaining her frustration with the fact that they couldn't keep up with her) but I assume that was never established or even hinted at.

[@darthgamer9861]

I love that Kenshin still gets so much attention

[@jamalisujang2712]

I am glad people has forgotten his offense some years ago.

[@tristanjones9839]

I come here for the first time commenting to tell you I love your work. These videos have helped me so much when it comes to writing that it's cliche to even mention it. I appreciate your videos and hope you continue. Thanks for the information over how to make a story better simply from the standpoint of avoiding mistakes when making characters, from the mary sue to knowing what to look out for when it comes to bad story telling. Actually learning that I favor a specific style of storytelling, western style, helped out in the field of applying such style in my work. Thank you for the videos and I wish you the best on your future endeavors!

[@jonathankozenko]

Brilliant quote at the end! And I really dig your comparisons to The Neverending Story, Forbidden Kingdom and Willow! Loved all three of those movies, and agree with every example you used with them! (Same for John Wick and Ip Man, although you've already proved why they're awesome)

[@murderous1823]

I love the changes you made. The only thing I could think that might make it more poignant would be the whole group of soldiers returning to the troll fight and the rookie saves galadriel but dies in the process. Though it might be too much to still allow leniency from the king

[@82dorrin]

When you think about it, the FREAKNG ORC COMMANDER in the Lord of the Rings trilogy was a better leader than Galadriel. He showed actual concern for the Orcs under his command while still maintaining a firm hand. When they got tired near Fangorn, he let them stop and rest. THEN he put meat back on the menu!!

[@navis_6383]

She is the villain of the story... Seriously.. She doesn't shame away from being murderous and takes pride in torturing people using them for her selfish desires.. And no matter how many people die for her selfish desire.. She doesn't care.. A classic true villain..

[@paulwolfley7785]

Hiding? She has spot lights and a whole damn parade

[@Ramsey276one]

O M G XD

[@Master_Reven]

Saying Galadriel is secretly a Mary Sue is like saying Anakin is secretly Darth Vader.

[@LasseROM]

Every time LD rewrites a Mary Sue or Gary Sue the results are always better and I am left longing for those better versions in place of the garbage I am presented with. Great vidoe. Bith entertaining and informative.

[@AlexanderNixonArtHistory]

you MAJORLY improved the story of Galadriel; bravo!

[@ScotUKUWS]

Secretly a mary sue? 🤣 Yeah, the 'secretly' part of that statement must have been so secret I didn't notice it. Maybe it's hiding next to Celeborn...

[@stinkfist911]

Great decision to refer to Willow. Great movie. What a gem, and Berglecut is one of my favorite bullies, he's all about sending willow off alone until he gets sent to escort him, then he wants that warrior real quick lol. great moment.

[@jakubekch.3621]

Tbh I'd love to see a "merry sue story" with a crap ton of internal struggle to appear perfect Something where she gets a massive boost in life trough luck/fate Realizes she is waaaaaay under prepared for whatever she is doing now But for some reason she has to appear perfect and we as an audience get to see her to some extent grow into that role, we see her flaws and shortcomings unmasked and her working workarounds around them I think that idea sounds good as a character arc

[@markopusic8258]

Well to be fair, if my understanding of your idea is correct, it's nothing more than a "traditional" journey except the actual struggle is 100% psychological instead of being a mix of various things, aka both practical and psychological flaws. In other terms, your story will be entirely character driven rather than the usual balance between plot and character.

[@jakubekch.3621]

@@markopusic8258 pretty much I love myself some good psychological drama

[@thedancinglumberjack6471]

Dude, please tell me your a movie writer. We need more people like you

[@radiantfartcloud2041]

A bit of a tangent here, Galadriel being right because the story needs her to be is the same reason I found the first episode of Attack on Titans so insufferable. Eren rages against normality and screams at everyone for being too comfortable with the wall, despite it having held against titans for generations. Apart from a nightmare he barely remembers, he has no reason to believe that shit is going to hit the fan, but he does, and he ends up being right by sheer luck.

[@genebaker511]

By the end of the season, Guyladriel never reflected or gets punished narratively when she's responsible for putting Sauron back on the path of evil when he tried to walk away from it. Will never be held accounted for her actions.

[@LiteratureDevil]

Even worse. She just convinced Sauron to come out of hiding. Then he asked Galadriel to marry her. Then he went to go fight the bad guys. (Adar). He hasn't actually done anything evil yet as far as we've seen.

[@canaldecasta]

"Stab, twist, gut"-Tolkien

[@sigmacademy]

Someone placed a comparison video on YT showing how Aragon attacked an Orc head-on and simply sliced off its head, practically invalidating her "battle advice". XD

[@rhysproudmourne1646]

It’s also funny that these Mary Sue shows always end up having the main incorruptible and impervious hero be the actual villain because of their hubris.

[@Phanto5692]

I think I prefer your rewrite over the original. I wasn't really opposed to the particular arc but I felt ROP took it to such an extreme that it's hard for any sort of remediation for it.

[@Zephyr_Axiom]

I recently rewatched Attack on Titan season 1, and a really significant element of the epicness of that show is that *spoilers* The heroes undergo relentless defeat for over ten episodes, constantly getting beaten down, utterly humiliated, and driven to despair before finally they achieve ONE victory. After a hundred years of unending defeat, retreating, retreating, and retreating, with humanity pushed to the brink of extinction, the main characters manage to close a single gate to put a pause on the destruction and find a glimmer of hope. Yet even though it is just a glimmer, it shines like the sun because it is in the deepest, darkest pit imaginable. Narratively, the powerlessness of the heroes in the story makes their victory all the more impactful.

[@blackcitadel9]

Nice work as always LD. Still, I think we should leave Galadriel as she is, Tolkien's version. If people want a warrior woman, they can write their own, in their own story. Hey as long as it's well written I wouldn't mind hearing about it, but that's unlikely in today's world.

[@manwithoutacountry]

Great analysis, And I like your rewrite. My only alteration, which I thought of before, was to have someone die during that ice troll fight. With your outline, perhaps it would have been a friend who helped her or even that newbie who was prideful. She could hold him in her arms as he dies pushing her to question whether this mission was really worth it. Of course the character would have had to have been a bit unlikable but not worthless so that the audience would feel a little guilty when the young elf dies.

[@azoniarnl3362]

Is anyone suprised they weren't able to equal the genius writing of Tolkien?

[@LiteratureDevil]

Their writing is barley fanfiction level lol

[@brianerickson6775]

A friend gave me the best advice about character development: "Perfect characters are boring characters. Flaws make your characters interesting." Girl Power(Mary Sues) like ROP: Galadriel are perfect examples.

[@mistersharpe4375]

When coming up with characters, instead of focusing on specifically flaws, I prefer to think about a character's "vulnerabilities". Even if a character has no objective "flaws", some of their positive traits can still leave them vulnerable to hurt and character conflict. Inspirational and mythic heroes, like Superman, who are already at the height of their power, might not have flaws to overcome in order to become greater. That's not what their stories are about. However, a character like Superman has a strong sense of morality driving him. This is arguably not a flaw, but it is still a vulnerability, something which leads to conflict to other characters, and opens Superman up to great distress. A good writer can even use Superman's morality to turn his own immense powers into a flaw itself. I believe I remember a scene from a comic, where Clark Kent explains that his superhuman powers means that he has to hear hundreds of people suffering around him, constantly, but even he can't be everywhere at once, to save everyone. Superman's morality makes his own powers a burden.

[@brianerickson6775]

@@mistersharpe4375 I agree with your point. Great advice.

[@mistersharpe4375]

@@brianerickson6775 Thank you. For clarification, I really do enjoy writing characters with proper flaws. It's just fun writing a protagonist who can be a real jerk, and then see him get punished and humbled for it, lmao