Turning Red Is A Narrative Nightmare And Here's Why

[@LiteratureDevil]

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[@wolfrainexxx]

Someone once said, "The female power fantasy is about being able to do whatever they want without consequences."

[@joshkitto3943]

I just finished watching the series of animation vs Minecraft and part 3 has a wonderful story for characters unable to speak. I would be interested to hear your thoughts about it! Thanks! kzbin.info/www/bejne/jIirhZ-naquWqJo

[@shawnwykoff8744]

Why didn't you used Micheal J Fox's Teen Wolf for this video?

[@vasheskaaronsar1568]

Wow, you're soo good! I wish to see a thing or two from you about Encanto :3 Turning Red is fine as psychological portrait, but not so good with everything else

[@RaichuWizDom]

Not having seen the movie, but having seen Goofy Movie, one other possible comparison pops up: Roxanne is in Max's class. They are the same age. Not college age yet, but slowly getting there. Mei is 13. The boy she's perving over has a job, meaning he'd be... what, 18, 16 at least? Really leaning into the 'French' side of the Canadian content there, eh? Trying to get in on that Netflix hype with Disney+, mayhaps? Or was that different in the actual film? Didn't see it brought up, but might be worth mentioning on a stream.

[@Adorni]

“I’m _not_ your little boy, anymore! I’ve grown up, I’ve got my own life!” “I _know_ that! I just wanted to be part of it! … You’ll always be my son, Max, no matter how big you get.” This simple exchange is one of the best scenes in any film, and the fact that it’s in the Goofy Movie, of all things, just makes it all the more surreal.

[@CleverGirlAAH]

I wonder which movie was more successful and will be long remembered? Hmmm 🤔

[@maverickdarkrath4780]

@@CleverGirlAAH the goofy movie at least has a massive cult following in both meme culture and movie fans alike and it did well enough to warrant a sequel so I'd say it did well, turning red definitely had it time to shine, but I've noticed its not as marketed as Disney's other properties, and people seem to have moved on to from turning red now that it been out for almost a year

[@geekarchivistpearce828]

@@maverickdarkrath4780 Unfortunately, few writers are capable of addressing the 'toxic mother' issues that is plaguing the current generation and the irresponsible woman via loony pedo supporting Hollywood media.

[@TF2Fan101]

@@maverickdarkrath4780Simultaneously, Encanto was arguably far more popular and beloved. It even won the Oscar for Best Animated Feature!

[@lpfan4491]

It is still surreal that those two movies exist. Both because of how they even exist when the MC is Goofy of all characters and how they are actual masterclass in how they are perfectly polished 11/10s.

[@tomcallmusic4295]

Turning red seemed more about writers calling out their parents than it was about growing up.

[@ulaznar]

Typical lefty writer using stories as their own therapy session

[@juanrodriguez9971]

From what I read about asian parents, I may have done the same.

[@greensmurf221]

Correct.

[@庫倫亞利克]

@@juanrodriguez9971 Asian parents may generally be harsh but we still tend to grow as people, not laying all the blame about our personality flaws onto them. That's kind of a Hollywood-grown Asian privilege. Jessica Gao, Mindy Kaling, the author of Turning Red whose name I don't want to look up: They aren't Asians, they're skinsuits filled with agenda.

[@LiteratureDevil]

It felt more like one big budget "be better!"

[@RogueFox2185]

The movie would have been much better if it was told from Ming’s perspective, while also giving Mei more character flaws that she overcomes with Ming’s help.

[@debzykvids]

That would have definitely interesting, basically a chick flick take akin to Finding Nemo but if Turning Red were better written, etc, etc...

[@feedfancier]

I was thinking the exact same thing.

[@ExeErdna]

True, yet this was too focused on punishing the parents for being a parent.

[@TD-zs2nc]

That's literally God of War 2018. So you're correct, it was way better.

[@mrbigglezworth42]

@@ExeErdna God forbid your parents actually wanting what's best for their children, right? Not like there's anything wrong with the creepy panda/sexuality analogy and a damn 13 year old girl almost immediately monetizing it. It's almost like Disney has an infestation of P3D0's.

[@DuneStone6816]

It is weird how much of a non issue the panda actually is. Not only does Mei learn to control it within the first two days, but her family also knows exactly how to make it go away forever. And there are two blood moons a year, so even if it was a different month, Mei would only have to hold out for 6 months at the worst. But the climax reveals that Mei and the others can just smash their talismans at any time if they want to go Panda again. So even the choice of whether or not to keep the panda is meaningless because she can always bring it back. And then she can always perform the ritual again later if she wants to get rid of it. So no matter what choice Mei makes, she can always change it later. So the choice is meaningless.

[@MichaelAarons1701]

My question is why did anyone wear their talismans anywhere when they could be damaged letting their panda out? Does the talisman have to stay close by lest it not work? Considering how fragile they seem, one would expect them to invest in a personal safe or lockbox.

[@kingnull2697]

I think it's called "birth control". Or maybe "the morning after pill". Seriously, the whole thing is really weird on every level.

[@oORiseAboveOo]

Sounds like the whole thing is a metaphor for “gender fluidity.” Disney loves the gender qu33r cult.

[@synthcatx9841]

Which why the movie's plot and messages are stupid

[@chazzitz-wh4ly]

So, what I’m hearing is that there are no consequences and nothing matters. How fitting.

[@nikibogwater6598]

The thing that I found most disturbing about Turning Red is that, despite it being made explicitly clear that losing control of the panda can result in actual physical harm to other people, no one ever acknowledges it or brings it up as a risk to consider. Mei Mei full-on assaults a kid, and she could have seriously hurt or even killed him if her mom hadn't shown up just then. Her grandmother has a very obvious scar on her face from when Ming lashed out in panda form. They go to the trouble of establishing that Mei's Panda has the potential to be dangerous to the people around her, and then *don't address it at all.* Because what is another person's physical safety and wellbeing when compared to the grave injustice of a girl having to *gasp!* control herself?!

[@dankwok2130]

That exactly was my biggest problem with the movie.

[@stanleysmith278]

This is actually a good criticism. Better than any LD has levied at the film.

[@pianoandguitarlover2773]

That critique is gold!

[@alexandrews6256]

I also don't like metaphorical aspect of the Panda.

[@cheytec9089]

And when she was selling pictures of herself as a panda.. Was it just some sick joke tailored to preteens selling pictures of themselves online for money? "My panda, my choice"

[@mysticalarchives7821]

Important note: When talking about accepting your flaws, there's is a distinction to make. Growing up, we all have to learn to accept ourselves as we are - the good and the bad - so that we can grow past our self-image issues. We have to accept that there are physical features about ourselves that we don't like and that we will make mistakes and aren't always good at what we'd like to be. If we don't learn to accept this, then we wind up facing a serious identity crisis or something worse. However, we should not just accept our character or personality flaws. If we know that we are arrogant, short-tempered, or selfish, then we should feel a sense of shame or disappointment in ourselves because we know that we aren't living up to the best we can be. It is thus our responsibility to seek to do better and improve upon our flaws. You can't just go through life saying "I'm short-tempered, deal with it!" because that only causes the problem to get worse and creates suffering for ourselves and others. We have to acknowledge our flaws and seek to do better. Overall, we need to distinguish between that which we can and should change, and that which we can't and shouldn't change before we ever embark on accepting ourselves for the good and the bad. If we don't, then we risk shutting ourselves off from experiencing the growth and self-improvement that is necessary to become better people.

[@RaichuWizDom]

Eglantine Price is a nice evergreen example of that, from Bedknobs and Broomsticks. She was forgetful, horribly so, to the point she couldn't remember her own spells. But what does she do? Keep a notebook. She has her flaw, that flaw never fully goes away, but she works with it and works around it, to the best of her abilities. And her purpose was to help others, too, that's a big one: she wasn't in it for her own benefit or even her own glory. Her self-improvement was to be better for others. Personality-wise, also, she was aware and upfront about not wanting other people, especially children, around her house. She never went through the cliché of revealing she never wanted those kids, they knew they weren't welcome from the get-go. It's only later on that they warm up to each other. Her character growth was about learning to loosen up, but even that came with the backdrop of getting better magic. Seriously, watch that film again. It's a female wizard multiclassing into bard done as a character arc.

[@OneroseArts]

Very well said! Embrace your limits, but not your flaws.

[@Jirodyne]

There is a difference between accepting your flaws, and Accepting your Flaws. The 'Healthy' and more normal character building way, is accepting that you have flaws, what those flaws are, and how to manage, and work around those flaws. To work towards getting OVER those flaws. Learning to deal with anger issues. Forgetfullness. Arrogence. And so on in more healthier ways, and try to get around them so they don't rule your life. What this movie does tho, and the writer, and woke left, is "Accepting your Flaws". As in taking their flaws, and amplifying them to the extreme, and demanding that they are normal, and everyone else is wrong. Instead of working on Anger Issues, so they don't hurt themselves, friends, or family. They embrace that Anger, lash out, and attack people for trying to 'control' them and their anger. Their Flaw, is 'Accepted' as their 1 and only virture. They take the phrase "Accepting your Flaws", and take it literal to mean make themselves ONLY their flaws. They are too stupid, to understand it is a Metaphor, and not literal.

[@lavenderflowersfall280]

Give me a headache

[@KororaPenguin]

@@Jirodyne "In each of us there is something growing, which will BE hell unless it is nipped in the bud." -- C. S. Lewis

[@RedEyedRaven93]

I wonder if the story would've worked better if Mei's flaw is her being such a doormat to her parents and the arc is about finding her own person and uniqueness, as well as accepting responsibility of her own life?

[@f145hr3831jr]

Focusing on the responsibility part would be fine, I'm not sure about encouraging uniqueness, particularly in the age of narcissism we live in.

[@PsypherWolf]

@@f145hr3831jr Within context, it's not a bad thing, Mei's mother expected her to become in her image, living life through her, which is an awful thing some parents do submit their kids to. In execution tho', it wasn't great.

[@defaulted9485]

I rather see her developing skills. The drawing part is a one off joke I felt bad its forgotten and not utilized. Then they lump it up as "the panda" being a metaphor for everything. Skills, talent, inheritage, culture, and damn puberty. I know puberty is cringe, but many of people I knew had to make money since childhood. However, none of them should ever consider selling puberty. That part went way downhill so quick, but I'm thankful that those things are not the first that came to my mind.

[@lavenderflowersfall280]

It wasn't about that?

[@tudoraragornofgreyscot8482]

@@f145hr3831jr At the same time, children are their own separate entities, not mere extensions of their progenitors.

[@electricelephant7471]

The biggest problem with this story is the absolutely disturbing subtext where 13 year old MeiMei uses the panda, a metaphor for female puberty, for money, and in the end, after learning how restricting MeiMei in any way is wrong, her family decides to GET IN ON THE GRIFT! It's CREEPILY on the nose. All the more that it's shown as a way to escape the need to develop as a person and mature because her panda is so economically and socially advantageous. Fucking disturbing.

[@debzykvids]

This, this, this! The fact the movie never challenges or highlights the dangers of such concepts (at least what's implied) is so off-putting and even offensive.

[@electricelephant7471]

@@debzykvids I can give them the benefit of the doubt that the 13 year old aspect was the result of starting with a simple idea about a girl starting magical puberty and dealing with awkwardness and developing the subtext later without caring about the clash, but I think the writers genuinely wanted to put forth a pro-sex-work message, voewing it as female empowerment. As someone who is opposed to sex work for a litany of reasons, from how sex work customers are psychologically going through the same process as drug addicts, to issues of understanding boundaries and consent, to broad scale sociological imbalance, to how women who engage in it tend to develop extreme narcissism and dysfunctional personalities, but the fact that it is broaching this subject unambiguously positively with a character this young brings it way over the edge, and I would never want to show a child this film.

[@debzykvids]

@@electricelephant7471 I agree with you on this! As I mentioned in my own comment, I think it was originally Pixar's reattempt at the Brave plot, except with the Asian POV. But the additional stuff as you've pointed out was a step too far, and poor execution of the idea. Then surprisingly made Brave look miles better when both are compared together in terms of writing quality...which says a lot since many disliked Brave for years as one of Pixar's worst offerings.

[@jasonbowman9521]

I watched this at home but it felt like I was intruding on a private conversation better suited in privacy between a mother and daughter but oh well. Not the worst movie but a bit awkward. In my opinion. I'm good with " it wasn't made for you." Fair enough.

[@dustgun3861]

Making an OF to show her "panda"

[@achair7958]

Turning Red is what happens when immature people write stories about maturing.

[@dunkyking6310]

Correction: groomers

[@renard6012]

A story about maturing written by people who hate the idea of maturing.

[@SammEater]

@@renard6012 *Looking at a picture of the production team, sees nothing but women* Yep, that checks out.

[@silverhawkscape2677]

My idea of Maturing is gaining new responsibilities and accepting them.

[@KororaPenguin]

"The point isn't to push the bad stuff away; it's to make room for it, to live with it." Jimmy Savile seemed to have taken that advice to heart. For those who don't know, he was a kid-fiddler who used a wish-fulfillment show as bait and had everyone in authority fooled (except for the Highest, to Whom he had to answer in 2011).

[@MaverickhunterXZero]

I think the worst part of Turning Red is the ending with Mei saying: "My _PANDA_ my choice MOM!" And the mother just accepts this and lets her do it in the end. Anyone who have been around knows what this is in reference to - and being she's thirteen years old and sold pictures of her "Panda" for money. Given the internal transformation; There's a very dark message here that the writers probably wouldn't want to be asked about. Imagine a mother finding out her Daughter was selling her "panda" in the privacy of the school bathroom where no one can see and then just accepts that as just being herself. Teen Wolf will always be a better movie then this because in the end; Scott didn't need his wolf. Mei-Ling on the other hand, her Panda is the only thing that makes her specials and she can not stop showing it to everyone.

[@megabuster3940]

We need to hunt down these Mavericks Megaman X

[@TheDrexxus]

Yeah that "my panda my choice" shit is just one of those things liberal writers shove in there to get ignorant audiences to stand and cheer and applaud because it reminds them of activist mob chants like "my body my choice" even though it doesn't have anything to do with the movie. It's too bad the government didn't take her away to study her "panda" instead of the entire world just casually glossing over the factual existence of that type of magic. Then when she is locked alone in her isolation cell, she could remember her mother telling her its better to keep it hidden and she spends the rest of her life wishing that she had.

[@Sorain1]

@@TheDrexxus Or, you know, the government folk aren't idiots and do proper studies. The kind where the problems she faces are the disturbing constant monitoring, the continual orders to preform on demand, the potential of a witch hunt ensuing outside but only having information coming from an untrustworthy source.

[@joewelch4933]

@@TheDrexxus This would have been the result in the real world..... But to mavericks point, her selling herself is the thought I had as well with the my panda my choice line and its frightening that its in a supposed kids movie.

[@-lord1754]

@@TheDrexxus This comment is hilarious LOL

[@omniviewer2115]

Teenage girl goes through puberty, develops certain physical attributes, then uses those attributes to make money. Nope, definitely nothing problematic about that subtext, no sir.

[@bigblue344]

We are hitting Weimer levels so fast that it shouldn't be possible

[@iceprism367]

It's interesting how when Spiderman did that he immediately afterward realized it was not a good idea.

[@userequaltoNull]

@@bigblue344 Why do you people keep talking about Weimar Germany? That shit was doomed from the start, and the communists were the ones who pushed the people into the arms of the Nazis. Are you aware of some specific history I'm not? Because I've never been given any details on any "social degradation" or "degeneracy" present at the time, and nobody else seems to know either. I'll be honest, it sounds like the kind of buzzword being pushed by unironic neonazi types, even if it originated from "anti-nazi" historiography (as all historiography, objectively, should be *perceived* as by anyone who isn't a communist)

[@originaluseername]

d e f i n i t e l y lmao no dictionary havin ass

[@KopperNeoman]

@bigblue334 Who gained power after Weimar? Who was the father of the man running the WEF? Yep.

[@rienjen]

I love Lilo and Stitch. I thought all the characters were adorable and well-represented, and I love Lilo's story arc, as Lilo actually means, "Lost." And I love that she loved Elvis--what a cute quirky character trait.

[@eeveeofalltrades4780]

Who doesn't love Elvis though?

[@a.s.3805]

@@eeveeofalltrades4780 I like his version of Blue Christmas (which is the only version I’ll listen too ironically) but other than that, I’m not a fan of Elvis’s music.

[@eeveeofalltrades4780]

@@a.s.3805 me neither, but I think Lilo and Stitch is enough to make people like at least one of his songs.

[@dogg-paws]

@@eeveeofalltrades4780 _A little less conversation, a little more action, please_ _All this aggravation ain't satisfactioning me_ _A little more bite and a little less bark_ _A little less fight and a little more spark_ _Close your mouth and open up your heart and, baby, satisfy me_

[@itemwizardd]

"Speaking of things beloved by Twitter psychos" Beautiful transition. Never change, Literature Devil.

[@bayardkyyako7427]

I mean change the obvious conservative bullshit and actually be a critic for once but aside from that sure.

[@itemwizardd]

@@bayardkyyako7427 Just curious, outside of "conservative stuff", do you have any criticism of the video? Like if you don't like him, that's fine, but do you have any reasons beyond politics?

[@bayardkyyako7427]

@@itemwizardd No need to airquote it, it's literal conservative bullshit talking points from 2016. Aside from that I feel like he does fine for the most part of his videos, but this underlying "heh, snowflakes are the bane of fun and existance and the woke mob needs to grow up" mentality needs to stop right now. Not only are the people who use the term snowflake as fragile as a snowflake themselves and definitely not unique like one, but also anyone who uses the term 'woke' unironically is just playing themselves nowadays because it really doesn't mean anything anymore. This 2016 style of criticism needs to die off and be replaced with real critiques and not earworms.

[@itemwizardd]

​@@bayardkyyako7427 I don't think I was clear, lemme rephrase: Do you have any criticisms of the content of the video beyond that? Like, I get that you're not a fan of the stuff you just mentioned, but I mean the actual critique of Turning Red from a story perspective. The analysis of the characters, plot structure, things of that nature, do you have any criticisms of those?

[@bayardkyyako7427]

@@itemwizardd Yeah turning red fucking sucks, it's only good characters are Pyira and the dad, the analogy for a panda isn't a bad idea but it gets more convoluted when you introduce aspects that never come true and even outright contradict every single thing said in the previous hour or two of the movie just for a feel good ending. Selling the panda pictures is definitely weird and I feel like through watching the movie I'm on some sort of watch list and pixar didn't give me a watch list warning, I hated the twerking at the end but I understand it, if her mom is super traditional then something that is not sexual but very "lewd" (even though twerking itself isn't lewd it's just moving your ass in a different way) it'd be something the mom would be shameful of. The necklace to hold back the panda is a really cool concept, showing that they've went through the change and overcame it. Releasing it sounds dumb because if it's as completely volitile as they claim then what they're doing is basically releasing their inner serial killer for inhuman talents which has horrid implications. Then finally the topic on is it even right to make a movie on the subject. Yes. There is nothing to lose from at least making it known because in countries like the U.S, sex education is absolutely terrible and it's because of puritans made it that way, but if corperations like Disney+Pixar make more of a fuss about these very common and basic topics then thats a way these multi-billion dollar companies can do something worthwhile with that money while making a shitty movie.

[@CallidusVelox]

Convincing children to rebel against their parents removes the parents as the most influential figures in the children's lives. This makes them easier to manipulate and more vulnerable. Disney is a giant corporate predator, and their behavior shows it.

[@TechBlade9000]

Raya and the Dragon showed a fucked up version of the inverse, with telling kids to blindly trust adults who haven't shown evidence to trustworthiness

[@silverhawkscape2677]

@@TechBlade9000 Combine them together and you have the perfect grooming attitude. Rebel against your parents and Trust Random Strangers.

[@kietdoanh1564]

That's also the same way communist use to take control of power.

[@echocharlie00]

@@TechBlade9000 funny how both have the same outcome tho

[@PrincessMavenKittyDarkholme]

Bruh not all parents are heroes

[@Ellebeeby]

“Selling the panda” seems a lot like having an OnlyFans…

[@freelanceryuu]

that’s the point

[@orbboom6119]

Disturbing asf

[@MASHo1992]

Well... the panda is supposed to represent her puberty Puberty is all about the body maturing and sexual awakening. So... yeah, it's like OnlyFans.

[@BlueisNotaWarmColour]

That's ridiculous. Of course it's not about OnlyFans. *thinks about it* wait

[@elpretender1357]

OnlyPandas

[@Neutra77]

This actually reminds me of The Croods in some ways. The movie acted like the daughter was the main character at the start, but in all reality it was actually the father, struggling to accept how the world was changing and the necessary requirements needed of him and his family to survive, including working with those he doesn't like and trusting his family to be able to operate without him.

[@AnimaVox_]

The Croods is great! Not enough people talk about it. The animation has also aged really well.

[@TeamGalactic-Cyrus]

@@AnimaVox_ The Croods is pretty good, and underrated

[@TeamGalactic-Cyrus]

@@Nopeasaurus oh ok then

[@jendoe9436]

And none of the characters are really villainized or put down. We can sympathize with Eep wanting a bit more out of her life, especially given it’s just her crazy family she has. But we totally understand why Grug acts the way he does, as he’s the protector of the family. The world changing before their eyes after already living a harsh life is enough to make anyone nervous. Grug distrusting Guy at first makes total sense, as 1) “He’s new!” 2) the environment is changing so much it’s making everyone nervous, and 3) Guy is ‘protecting’ the Croods different than how Grug did. It’s only after seeing his family start taking care of themselves and Guy opening up to Grug that he realizes his rules “don’t work out here!” The final scene of him using his strength to literally throw his family into safety and everyone crying about is amazing! Because it shows that just because he messes up sometimes, his family knows he loves them and has already done a lot for them. Eep being heartbroken that she never told him she was sorry and loved her dad still brings a tear to my eye.

[@flower6600]

Comparing Croods with turning trash is an insult to croods

[@Avarn388]

I look forward to this. Turning Red I've heard so many mixed/ bad things about it and I can't help but think about Finding Nemo which I recently rewatched and that film holds up incredibly well. Marlin was a father you could get behind as you got why he was so paranoid, but also you understood why Nemo was so rebellious and how both father and son learned how to better themselves and have a healthier relationship. I miss movies like that. All in all, this should be good for my own writing. So thank you, LD.

[@r.connor9280]

SHARK BAIT HOOHOO HAH

[@Lobstro]

I'm glad someone brought up Finding Nemo. It's a good example of the genre "children's story made for adults" done well. It has bright colors and funny characters for children to enjoy, but Marlin's journey arc is very mature with its themes of dealing with loss and learning to trust

[@rotothedragonlord7198]

Agreed, the biggest difference is both Marlin and Nemo were at fault and both learned a lesson at the end movie. Just having Ming be the one at fault and Ming learn the lesson essentially makes this half a movie.

[@BlueisNotaWarmColour]

Finding Nemo is a true Hollywood masterpiece. Edit: actually, so was most every film Pixar made in that era.

[@andrewgreeb916]

It's a story that honestly you couldn't see going any other way, Marlin would always be overprotective, and Nemo would always rebel.

[@shhhhh642]

As a chinese person, the opening sequence was very uncomfortable for me to watch because of its simplistic depiction of filial piety. I understand that it is portrayed that way because it's from the perspective of an immature 13 year old kid, but that picture of her bowing down to her parents with a calligraphy drawing of the word "filial piety" in the background honestly felt like a caricature of my cultural experiences. While that scene may be relatable and bring a few laughs to an asian audience, I was uncomfortable with the ideas that kids or people from other cultures will take away from that scene.

[@Aussieroth7]

Encanto at least had a good idea and overall solid execution. The grandmother, Abuela, had one hell of a traumatic event which she never healed from, and she did ignore the hell out of Mirabel, making her feel ostracized and the rest of the family didn't help at times either. So, in her case it made sense. Then when she understood, she wanted to improve herself in general. Perhaps it could have been done better but at least it wasn't obnoxious and one way.

[@ProfessorDreamer]

I beg to differ Enchanto was a spectacular movie form the start to the end with the main Madrigal family learning not to surpass everyone's expectations all the time and take time off without stressing ( it also wasn't Generation Snowflake it was a very heartwarming and musically amazing film).

[@Aussieroth7]

@@ProfessorDreamer Sorry, slightly misrepresented myself. I thought it was a good movie too. Well paced, well acted, well plotted and characters that were likeable, even interesting. Though I'm aware of how WROOOOONG it could have gone.

[@ProfessorDreamer]

@@Aussieroth7 I'm really glad that you clear up the misunderstanding you made. Encanto succeeds where Turning Red fails in every aspect not to mention Mirable was much more relatable than Mei Mei and much more interesting and compelling as character. Enchanto was one of the best movies Disney made in 2021 and one of its best yet ( Alma's reasons for being such a control and perfectionist steam from a believable and sympathetic fear of not wanting to use the magic of her husband's candle that represents her family). Not to mention Mirabel bettered herself na learned from her mistakes.

[@Aussieroth7]

@@ProfessorDreamer Indeed, not to mentioned straight up OWNED her mistakes.

[@ProfessorDreamer]

@@Aussieroth7 exactly she did. Also don't you mean owned up to her mistakes.

[@elpretender1357]

Turning red really does have the same problem as Raya and the last dragon: The lessons it tries to teach to children are awful and poorly thought out. In turning red the kids are taught to be arrogant brats who know more than their parents. Meanwhile in Raya the kids are taught to have trust in people who have not proven to be trustworthy at all and just hope for the best.

[@TechBlade9000]

The 2 movies working together to show you the idea of a lesson itself isn't what makes it good

[@banjo9158]

I didn't even knew Raya try to teach anything, tbf i forgot like, almost everything about the movie.

[@FGenthusiast0052]

@@banjo9158 I still remember it, and even then I was shocked by what they are supposedly trying to teach. You are telling me I should trust the person that has betrayed me *multiple times*, and take that leap of faith, when the other person doesn't want to, nor even earn the right for that trust? I was truly upset at that movie

[@banjo9158]

@@FGenthusiast0052 It's such a bland and generic movie that also trying to teach lessons become a joke.

[@206Zelda]

Red: Sell your body without the real consequences that come with it, omit parental guidance in exchange for negligent compliance, what would happen if teenagers ruled the world. Raya: Trust everyone, don't get mad when abused, nobody can be too evil as long as they're women, right?

[@toastist7010]

Honestly, while I can see the whole message about "Be proud and embrace who you are" could be a narcissist thing to some. I do think it boils down to execution. An example of a movie doing this really well is the "Spongebob Movie" from 2004. The whole movie is basically Spongebob going through an arc where he accepts that he is a kid at heart. Throughout the journey, he's been told and shown countless times again and again that he's just a kid. The final showdown between him and plankton even has him singing about his inner kid being embraced. But shouldn't that be a flaw? Not really, despite being naive and innocent, Spongebob actually manages to complete his mission and get stuff done in time. It shows that he was able to prove everyone wrong that he's capable and responsible. I think it's one of those times where a "flaw" can be a virtue, where Spongebob uses it as an advantage (for a good cause) and at the same time, creates real consequences. In summary, the point of the Spongebob Movie was that it is alright to be yourself and even embrace it as long as you manage to pull your own weight and deal with the consequences it brings. This movie doesn't seem to get the consequence part right.

[@SteelPanda220]

I love the first SpongeBob movie. I smiled when you brought it up.

[@toastist7010]

@@SteelPanda220 Haha, thanks. I love it too! And to think that one of my favourite 2d animated movie whose message stuck with me was from a show about a talking sponge :)

[@BlossomPathOnStage15]

First 3 seasons of SpongeBob including it's first movie hava a lot of real life lessons. You just need to analyse it.

[@rinxmacaroni2085]

then the other next movies sucks

[@sugartoothYT]

I don't think Spongebob-movie does a great job at proving the acceptance of being a childish goof, but it definitely did a good job in not blindly glorifying it or the opposite. A lot of the trouble Spongebob and Patrick get into is both because they are childish, but also because they are obsessed with the twisted image of masculinity, so they don't really learn. The core resolution really is at whether or not being a "goofy goober" and reliable are always mutually exclusive, which they are not.

[@FixTheFlick]

Even shifting the focus to Mei's mother isn't necessary for the narrative to work. The events simply need to happen in reverse order. Mei _starts out_ only caring about herself and is more concerned with honoring herself than respecting her mother. Then turning into the red panda forces her to rely on her mother for advice, eventually realizing, she's only a part of her family's legacy and it's _NOT_ all about her.

[@straydogfreedom7795]

Sounds about right

[@Birthday888]

Eh. That also has the potential to go spectacularly wrong. Just in the opposite direction as Turning Red.

[@elnchou]

The thing is, the message of the movie is more about dealing with overprotective parents and not so much about selfishness. Which don't get me wrong, listening to your parents is still good and shown here, what I'm trying to say is that this approach would erase one of the core points of the story and completely miss the initial motivations for making it.

[@FixTheFlick]

@@elnchou I agree, this approach would do that. But I think part of Literature Devil's point was that the core points and initial motivations of the story were a little toxic and misguided. As such, I'm fine with erasing them.

[@elnchou]

@@FixTheFlick Oh, yeah, that makes sense. I understand now

[@MDTako]

"You're perfect the way you are" and it's consequences have been a disaster for the human race.

[@alexandreturcotte6411]

[The Emoji Movie has enter the chat]

[@silverhawkscape2677]

Western Civilization actually.

[@tudoraragornofgreyscot8482]

@@silverhawkscape2677 That’s part of the human race

[@CrazyLikeUhFox]

@@tudoraragornofgreyscot8482 he’s saying it’s not a problem other societies are dealing with right now.

[@nenmaster5218]

@@silverhawkscape2677 LD isnt following what he preaches. Integrity, Honesty, Maturity, all that is not quite anywhere-present in his phrasing about Peterson, insinuating the very act of Criticizing the Man is utter Insanity. Not disliking him is One Thing but Insinuating theres 'not a single valid Criticism-Point ever made against Peterson' is... in all honesty... quite silly. KZbinr Some More News took nothing less than 3 Hours to list all the Problems with him and even than brushed-over a lot - the video could have been longer.

[@Ellebeeby]

Kuzco also had it all until his magical transformation!

[@ulaznar]

And his character flaw caused his demise. And he overcomes his flaw by the end...

[@ProfessorDreamer]

but unlike that The Emperor's New Groove wasn't about magical puberty.

[@ProfessorDreamer]

@@ulaznar The Emperor's New Groove did it way better and showed how Kuzco being raised with everything he wanted turned him into the person he was.

[@megabuster3940]

Kuzco is the best Disney Princess

[@ProfessorDreamer]

@@megabuster3940 Kuzco's a male and he was an emperor not a princess.

[@danieleorlando3297]

I always struggle to find good flaws in my stories. I spend a bunch of time thinking about them, then plan the story and realize the flaw doesn't actually fit. This analysis was actually very helpful. Thanks

[@LiteratureDevil]

It's tough to find flaws when you're the writer. A good strategy I learned is to write it, then put it down. Wait a week or so, even a month, and then go back to it. You'll find that you can look at it with far more objective eyes.

[@nenmaster5218]

@@LiteratureDevil LD you arent following what he preaches. Integrity, Honesty, Maturity, all that is not quite anywhere-present in his phrasing about Peterson, insinuating the very act of Criticizing the Man is utter Insanity. Not disliking him is One Thing but Insinuating theres 'not a single valid Criticism-Point ever made against Peterson' is; in all honesty; quite silly. KZbinr Some More News took nothing less than 3 Hours to list all the Problems with him and even than brushed-over a lot - the video could have been longer.

[@nenmaster5218]

@@LiteratureDevil Nothing wrong with not 'actively making Peterson-Debunks/Roasts/Whatever' yourself, of course, of course, but why do you go out of your way and insinuate NO VALID CRITICISM has EVER been spoken into Petersons general Directjion?

[@abhainn35]

I don't know if you mean story flaws or character flaws, but I have a tip that might help you with character flaws. Take their good traits and push them to the extreme. Say you have a character who's incredibly kind. Their flaw is that they're a doormat. Loyalty turns into self-sacrifice, confidence into arrogance, sarcastic into insensitivity. It works vice versa too.

[@BarkingCur]

The different ways Hollywood currently approaches Male and Female protagonists. Boy: Starts out flawed, makes major mistakes, yet succeeds once he makes amends, learns, grows, becoming capable of overcoming the obstacles the world puts in front of him. Girl: Starts out awesome, is unfairly pushed down, yet succeeds once the world acknowledges how awesome she is, bending to her will so all obstacles can be cleared effortlessly.

[@xenomorph6599]

I learned a lot more healthy life lessons from male protagonists from modern books and film than female ones in modern books and films. That's probably why, even though I'm a girl, I prefer following or writing a male protagonist's story. I'm so sick of girlboss syndrome. It's not representative, it's straight up slanderous

[@FortunAdlaich]

@@xenomorph6599especially when it’s treated like a novelty even to this day

[@corenlavolpe6143]

That explains why more female characters are labeled Mary Sue compared to male characters. They are literally written with fundamentally different attitudes.

[@NitroNinja324]

@@xenomorph6599 Nobody would want to follow the story of perfect, arrogant man who demands the world recognize his greatness, so I genuinely don't understand how it's "empowering" for a female character. If I had to guess, the writers have no clear concept of what is virtuous and what is not, so they are incapable of writing characters who do good.

[@OwObotJazz]

​@@NitroNinja324 I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that these types ardently believe that in order to prosper and succeed you need to be a "toxic male" as they would put it. If you notice how they talk and how they act, its the most cartoonish stereotype of what they think a man is like. You see it all over twitter and their media to the point where I'm starting to believe they never had an actual engaging interaction with a man. For some reason, being themselves is never an option. Just another "girlboss" among thousands churned out by mainstream media.

[@kietdoanh1564]

Main plot of Turning Red: The daughter is so awesome and perfect that she teach her mom how to grow up.

[@blankadams3120]

Really quick rewrite: "One morning, Mei Ling woke up as a red panda." Follow the Metamorphosis as closely as you dare. I'm pretty sure the protagonist of that was an adult... so, doing a child version could be interesting. The thing that bugs me about Turning Red? The 'metaphor' for puberty makes no sense if you extrapolate at all... Mei's family has a ritual to seal it away... so, you know, what we might call menopause? Or a tubal ligectomy? But Mom can just... turn it on or off at will at the end of the movie?

[@schwarzerritter5724]

That movie has been made, it is called Brave.

[@blankadams3120]

@@schwarzerritter5724 Which movie has been made? The Metamorphosis for kids? If so, it's definitely not Brave, as the protagonist in The Metamorphosis is the one who gets changed with no explanation. In Brave, it's Merida's mom and little brothers who change, and there's a reason for it both times.

[@schwarzerritter5724]

@@blankadams3120 I thought you meant the adult should change.

[@blankadams3120]

@@schwarzerritter5724 Ah, I see. So, let me rephrase my original idea then: Do a version of the Metamorphosis where the protagonist is a child and there's nothing in the plot that gives them control over the change.

[@PsypherWolf]

It's not a metaphor for puberty, it's only some articles that claimed so and it spread like wildfire.

[@drumdawg21]

Does anybody else find it disturbing that Mei makes money, as a thirteen year old, with the product of her symbol of puberty? Isn't that her symbolically selling her body online for money to go to a concert?

[@saintsheepy6682]

Yeah, that's what it is, especially when you consider what her "my panda, my choice" thing implies, and it shows what they're promoting to children. 🤢

[@flowerbloom5782]

Calm down. It’s just her selling her mascot panda image. It’s not sexual in nature unless you want to make it.

[@dragonmaster1360]

The movie is LITERALLY about magickal puberty, and the name is a LITERAL euphemism about female menstruation. This isn't "its not that way unless you want to make it", it LITERALLY is that way. She is selling the very representation of her puberty, se-ual maturation, which is her panda. She is metaphorically selling her body for money.

[@jeremyallen5974]

​@@dragonmaster1360That doesn't make it any better, pedo

[@bobwasowsky270]

@@flowerbloom5782 she literally says "my panda my choice" near the end of the movie, this is not even a metaphor, just plain reference.

[@tell-me-a-story-]

One parent telling a child to rebel against the other is so toxic. That's how divorces happen, and the grandma was obviously right.

[@silverhawkscape2677]

And that's how Divorce lawyer keep making Money.

[@tudoraragornofgreyscot8482]

@@silverhawkscape2677 who is responsible for such a culture?

[@RastaganTheGreen]

I picked up on this when watching Kenobi. Leia is being chastised by her mother for being rude to a boy at a function, and the mother turns to the father for him to say something, and he fucking looks at her and shrugs. Then the mother walks away and the father and Leia have a heart to heart now that the mother has exited the scene. What the hell? They're literally teaching the message that parents who enforce consequences are bad, and parents who let you do whatever you want are cool, and it isn't important for parents to present a united front when they discipline their children.

[@threeleafclover3222]

Rebel? The dad just told her that this part of herself doesn’t have to be shameful, and that seeing her express herself and have fun with her friends made him happy.

[@tereza1959]

Something that bothered me A LOT about this movie, is that there are no high stakes, when Mei attacks Tyler at the party, i thought she would hurt him and everyone would understand how serious this whole Panda thing is, not even the final fight between Mei and her mom felt intense or emotional. When I saw the trailers for this movie, i was excited to see it, but after watching i realized how bad the story is.

[@ladyheavdev]

And the fact that Mei and Tyler are total besties the next time they see each other as if the whole mauling incident never happened. Plot holes. Plot holes everywhere

[@insulttothehumanrace3807]

Amen to that. Though I'd cite a bigger incident of "no high stakes" being when Mei's run through town as her panda, all the damage she caused and even being caught on the news... and the only thing that results in is Ming's mom noticing and deciding to intervene, and even then it's framed as a fault on Ming's part, not Mei's.

[@maravreloaded]

In addition. The protagonist and her friends act following the same obnoxious stereotypes of what the same people like the one who made this movie call "TOXIC MASCULINITY." Whistling at a boy they like or fantasizing about it. Why is it only wrong if a boy does it? If they do it it's TOTALLY FINE.

[@taylorandrews2925]

You put it into words. I couldn't stand Turning Red and found Mei to be a generally unlikeable character. I found her mother to be a more compelling character.

[@PrincessMavenKittyDarkholme]

How is she bad

[@ElGrabnar]

​@@PrincessMavenKittyDarkholme Did you watch the movie or the video your posting on? She's a self obsessed bint who betrays her friends and assaults people with her superpowers and it ends in her knocking her mother out because she wasn't allowed to see a concert because she's effectively possessed and they have to seal away the demon. This movie is for immature narcissists who think they've been perfect since they were 13, when 13 is really just where you START to mature not your end point and definitely not the age you trust to go out at night in a major city without a chaperone or any way to contact you. I know this because I had friends who wanted to go to see Lil Wayne but he got pelted with batteries until he left the stage and someone got trampled to death and another shot, concerts aren't safe and neither is the city, especially at night. This movie should've ended with her tranquilized and shipped off to a government facility to make panda supersoldiers not with her getting to be a furry and basically reminding her Mom she can beat her up.

[@PrincessMavenKittyDarkholme]

@@ElGrabnar no

[@PrincessMavenKittyDarkholme]

@@ElGrabnar what

[@PrincessMavenKittyDarkholme]

@@ElGrabnar racist

[@robinthrush9672]

Heroine's Journey: learning to accept you're fine how you are and don't need to change to be accepted. You know, narcissism.

[@John-fk2ky]

There’s an actual heroine’s journey, and modern storytelling likes to ignore it as much as the hero’s journey.

[@robinthrush9672]

@@John-fk2ky I know. Details derail snark. Authentic Observer has a nice video on it

[@janinebelleestrada7096]

People who are woke really need some life truck to hit them real hard but just enough that it won't kill them. As a matter of fact zi was a selfish cunt in my youth. The self absorbed liar that I proclaimed myself. All it took was for me to fail in everything I worked hard on just because I put little effort in to keeping it and eventually I ended up losing everything. So depressing and made me cry for 5 years every night. I don't know if it's even better if I get an ego death if I do magic shroomies

[@rinxmacaroni2085]

so..Tyler is somehow right? I remember he calls her a narc but not sure if thats what he meant

[@Yami-mugoni613]

@@rinxmacaroni2085 she does have golden child issues from her mother

[@Butterism]

See, while I thought the movie was cute, I got more confused the more I thought about what exactly the panda was suppose to represent. My first thought was a period. First one you get is kinda gross, you gotta learn how to clean yourself properly, dealing with pads, and wondering if people can tell cause you just feel different. But I discarded that because well, Mei basically told everyone about it. And you don't do that with your period. It's there and it's natural, but you don't really broadcast it. My second thought was full blown puberty. You're body is changing, you got new urges, and you start noticing boys and girls in ways you haven't before. But outside of what I mentioned earlier, Mei mastered her panda in like 10 minutes. We all know that awkward phase goes on for a fair bit. And you're friends accepting you doesn't make puberty less weird. So then I thought, okay, if represents rebellion and being true to yourself. But then at the end, Ming and all the aunties chose to lock their pandas away. In Ming's case, it was best to lock her panda away. And that couldn't be the message the movie was trying to say. Only some people can be themselves. Others need too and are encouraged to suppress their true selves. And then we all know what the "my panda, my choice," thing was referring too. So for an instant, I thought the panda ment reproductive rights but I threw that idea out as soon as I thought it. No matter what you try to say the Panda represents, the meaning falls apart with any scrutiny.

[@angel_of_rust]

that's typical of woke writing. trying to analyze them is an upward hill battle

[@庫倫亞利克]

My god, how many times do they have to hammer home the same boilerplate theme of "I don't have to change because I'm perfect, and the world has to change to fit me as I do whatever I want?" Because that's dangerous close to how Apostles operate in Berserk.

[@professorfukyu744]

Its actual satanism.

[@庫倫亞利克]

@@professorfukyu744 Uhh real life Satanists I met are significantly less nasty than these people.

[@-lord1754]

A lot of villains in japanese media are like this tbh.

[@AnimaVox_]

@@庫倫亞利克 No, the responder means it's _literal_ Satanism. Which it is. 'Do what thou wilt' and all that. Luciferian doctrine is quite against people overcoming the worst aspects of our nature, the whole point is to be as self-indulgent as possible regardless of how destructive it is. That's why you see things like the recent Balenciaga ads pop up from actual Luciferians; they don't value human life, the ideology is very anti-humanity and seeks to normalize every vile practice people can come up with-including noncery and child sacrifice.

[@nuclearsynapse5319]

@@庫倫亞利克 Perhaps, but the concept is in fact very close to Satanism. "My own will be done" and all that. Satanists at the end of the day are mostly atheists, or as some would put it "I-theists". They worship themselves as the center of their own worlds.

[@RichJammer]

What I love also about Goofy Movie was the concert was also showing the bond between Max and Goofy growing stronger. The song I2I sounds like it should be a love song but in the context of the climax of the movie, both characters getting along. Alot more thought was put into the Goofy Movie than Turning Red.

[@JStryker47]

I believe it's "Eye to Eye".

[@irok1]

@@JStryker47 In lyrics, yeah it is, but the official song name is I2I

[@JStryker47]

@@irok1 But why? That doesn't make sense.

[@irok1]

@@JStryker47 Pop titles, I guess. Just search it up on KZbin

[@WhiteManOnCampus]

@@JStryker47 It's 90s-era pop. While nowadays rap is the primary place you'll find grammar butchered and letters mixed with numbers, in the 90s it was pop music. "Eye to Eye" can also be spelled as I (capital i) 2 I. I think it stems from the hope that swelled up in a post-Cold War world that we'd soon enough be in a cybernetic utopia where letters and numbers, language and code, all intermingled.

[@greensmurf221]

The Goofy Movie is one of my favorite stories. Why? Because it was me and my dad.

[@MrDoctorProfessorPatrick]

Goofy Movie is such a lovely story. Film me and mom both love.

[@FortunAdlaich]

One of my all-time favorite movies, such a gem

[@ShadowWingTronix]

Hey, you finally did the thing! :) Another example would be Teen Wolf. (The Michael J. Fox movie, not any TV version and I didn't see the "sequel" with Jason Bateman.) Scott wakes up one day to find he's a werewolf but when it gets revealed his fame improves in the school, especially when his wolfman form improves his basketball game. He gets his dream girl, the support of his peers, but it nearly costs him his friends and puts him at odd with his father, who is also a werewolf. In the end he realizes his ego is out of control, tries to win the final game without "the wolf", and reunites with his friends, realizing his "dream girl" was just with him because he was popular. It gets right what this movie seems to get wrong according to this review.

[@ShadowWingTronix]

@Jacks Ragingbileduct There is some logic to sticking with times Disney productions got the concept right, though.

[@Nopeasaurus]

Male protagonists learn from their mistakes while female protagonists learn they were right all along.

[@w1dj4]

fun fact the jason bateman sequel has the main character named todd howard

[@axelwust9376]

Yknow, this movie really feels like the author wanted to dissect motherhood more, than actually making coming if age story. Considering the same lady made Bao short (about a mother having to come to terms that her son doesn't want to be in her life anymore) this really feels like a movie where the author should have written differently.

[@sariahd5083]

This story, no doubt, speaks to some, but as for female coming of age stories, I think it fails utterly. Jim Henson's The Labyrinth is my all time favorite in the genre. Sarah faces real world consequences as her teenage self chooses to go through the Labyrinth to get back the innocent baby brother that she wished away in a fit of pique. Like you mentioned, Spirited Away is another good example.

[@dragonmaster1360]

Considering this movie is supposed to be a "magickal puberty" story, and her "puberty" (aka, se-ual maturation) is to turn into a red panda, which she then SELLS... It feels like this is, in the background, telling young girls that it's fine to make an OnlyF-ns, or something akin to it. Which is incredibly disturbing and gross.

[@Quincy_Morris]

“The point isn’t to push the bad stuff away, but make room for it.” That message is literally evil

[@turanose]

I've noticed my family rarely rewatches shows anymore. They'll comment on enjoying specific elements of a film or show, then never mention it again. Almost no shows in recent memory are worth rewatching.

[@angel_of_rust]

tell me about it. Even the type of Spongebob memes reflect the quality of modern entertainment; all the popular templates come from ONLY seasons 1-3, with the sole exception of the Spongebob posed like a Chiclen template which was from season 9.

[@1685Violin]

​@@angel_of_rustWere there memes derived from the first _SpongeBob_ movie?

[@angel_of_rust]

@@1685Violin idk, i did specify that seasons 1-3 are pretty much all the source that templates come from, afaik many templates even come from individual episodes from those seasons

[@fishyfishyfishy500akabs8]

@@1685Violin people generally consider the movie great. However, there are few extremely viral memes that came from it. The best you'll probably get are some of the expressions like the suprised patrick meme which is mostly dead in comparison to alot of other spongebob memes that continue to exist ad perpetuam

[@jonathankozenko]

These are my favorite Literature Devil videos - Those that pick apart failings and explain what parts were rotten, and what parts could have been salvaged.

[@straydogfreedom7795]

They're like shorter Mauler vidoes

[@thelittlefox6460]

the main difference in encanto is pretty simple: everyone was wrong in that story, with Abuela being the main cause and Mirabel the most obvious consequence

[@eerietheghost8925]

Literature Angel is the only reason I never skip LD's sponsorship for.

[@obviouslykaleb7998]

Bro skips the video to get to the ads

[@TLSoulDude]

Y'know, I decided not to watch this when I saw how the fanbase surrounding it was kind of...psychotic. Looking on it now? Kinda see WHY it garnered that fanbase. Seems catered to the "It's not ME, it's everyone else" crowd. And why I'm glad that, when given the chance to watch it, I just say "Sorry, I haven't found a long enough pole yet".

[@nothdmoon]

The fanbase of the movie mainly consisted of the Stan Twitter community, it's guaranteed to be psychotic.

[@TLSoulDude]

@@nothdmoon Fact.

[@Nopeasaurus]

When the movie was released, lots of people voiced their concern about the movie and the fans shut them down, claiming they don't like kids watching movies about girls getting their periods and turning into red pandas.

[@nenmaster5218]

@@nothdmoon LD isnt following what he preaches. Integrity, Honesty, Maturity, all that is not quite anywhere-present in his phrasing about Peterson, insinuating the very act of Criticizing the Man is utter Insanity. Not disliking him is One Thing but Insinuating theres 'not a single valid Criticism-Point ever made against Peterson' is; in all honesty; quite silly. Peterson-Criticism, or... ya know... MOUNTAINS OF VALID PETERSON CRITICISM... seems like a touchy-Subject for LD?

[@WhiteManOnCampus]

@@nenmaster5218 ...Or it's that Peterson can have good messages and rejecting that advice wholesale just because the man is bad would be stupid. I don't like Peterson: he's a weak-willed cretin who doesn't practice what he preaches, fights against any sort of unified front that could protect people against the tide of psychosis, tries to bully people who point out those who are bankrolling evil acts... But even then, he does have things he says that are worth hearing. To simply dismiss everything that comes out of his mouth is foolishness, because you may miss out on a single gleaming diamond of truth. And the funny thing is, from a far-left perspective there's not really anything to criticize about Peterson other than that he doesn't want to play along with others' delusions. Aside from that he's one of the most milquetoast thinkers around, and functions as a pressure-release valve to con young men into believing that centrism is holding onto the pendulum as it swings leftward. The fact that "clean your room" and "take responsibility for your actions" are seen as somehow anathema to the modern world should be a sign of how far we've fallen, not some indicator that he's a great thinker.

[@petthepirate3115]

A part of me feels like the writers never really considered how the story in meaningful context would’ve implied if the Panda was about puberty for females... From how I see it, it feels like it’s supposed to represent Mei Mei’s true self, the one who isn’t “perfect” as Ming wants her to be. That moment where Mei’s dad finds the camera, Mei remembering the wonderful times she had with her panda, and the conversation between her and past Ming, it all sells that kind of meaning! It’s quite common for Asian parents to push such expectations to their child and what they should be, not letting said child to express their own interests and who they are as a person. This idea alone could be the reason why Turning Red gets some praise from it's viewers, it's mostly targeted towards people who suffer from trying to live up these high expectations, reminding them that they shouldn't be so hard on themselves for not being perfect or good enough in their parents' eyes. The more I process what the video is trying to explain, along with my opinion altogether, the more I think that the writers kind of messed up the message by having 2 entirely different meanings, which lead to this mixed bag that we have here today. If this was actually the case, then the one thing they could’ve done to fix it was to prioritize one meaning and keep *only* one. If we take the "true self" Panda idea, then Mei using her panda for money wouldn’t really be such a bad idea as it was for the other.... it could've just been some secret passion she had that was considered "bad" or "imperfect" to her family. Now this is where I want to share my ideas of how the story could've gone; Instead of having every woman in the family line get their panda in their coming of age, they would get it during their early life the moment they found their full passion, interest, etc. When Mei got it as a little kid, Ming had to hide it from the world (either by forcing her to be "normal" and "perfect", or sealing it away earlier)

[@pikminman13]

You can easily make a positive trait a flaw and yet these people don’t seem to get it. I have a character who is too honest and while that doesn’t hurt his interactions with friend and family who know him it easily rubs strangers the wrong way, as well as wishing for a world where lying went away forever. The imperfections in humans mean sometimes we have to lie. I hate it myself, even when I end up doing it. But some people aren’t ready to see the world as it is. Kids especially. You need the right balance. In the case of this movie, all they had to do was make Mei act too sheltered. Have her be unprepared for life because she refuses to stray from her parents. Have her fall behind because they end up having to temporarily leave the story for one reason or another. It’s not perfect but it at least takes a positive trait to its negative extreme.

[@jasonfurumetarualkemisto5917]

Just this alone could have massively helped save the story. In one of my favourite book series, The Wheel of Time (weep for my pain), a character has the flaw of honesty and righteousness, taken to their extremes. It puts him at odds with other people because he sees the world in the most extreme shades of black and white, and while he always doed the right thing, he seems off-putting and artificial to others. He won't lie, even if his family and friends would get killed over not doing so and he'd enact a death penalty on a Thief who broke the law that required it, even if he personally knew that person and knew it was for a good deed. He ends up joining a group of zealots and realises that while they do good work, their inflexibility and dogmatism negates it all. So he tries changing it by first changing himself. He grows by learning that while good and evil are objective things people can do, there's sometimes a greyness in-between that needs to exist for the world to function......but he doesn't throw the away that honesty and righteousness, it simply makes those traits stronger.

[@karyltiffanyflores]

My.... are you a writer or a story maker? The way you explain is superb than mine.

[@pikminman13]

@@karyltiffanyflores i write for fun in my spare time, but i havent finished the overall plot summary of the story yet.

[@karyltiffanyflores]

@@pikminman13 I do that too. I hope you finnish making the plot and good luck

[@Yams-Hams7734]

Why does your character sound exactly like me? It’s like reading a short summary of one of my most defining personality traits.

[@tell-me-a-story-]

When I was thirteen I like writing books, reading warriorcats, doing flips on the trampoline, and riding my bike..Yeah no there was no creepy pictures.

[@siobhonc]

Wow such a perfect child. Let's give you a prize

[@feiwnakausvkaxbdkebkswowbq8331]

Let’s not forget Mei’s friends aren’t even characters. They’re just stereotypes. I kept calling them the goth wannabe, the Shawn hunter friend, and the basket case. I think the reason people defend this movie is because they find it relatable. It makes them feel more normal in fact it took my sister three months to admit “Yeah that movie was trash.”

[@LiteratureDevil]

Oh yeah lol. Mei's three friends are basically just one big character.

[@edman813]

The fat girl idk her name/could care less is literally just Patrick Star, lol fat people are funny because they dumb lmao genius comedy.

[@debzykvids]

I remember being so put off from the trailers in such a way that, beyond a few KZbin clips out of morbid curiosity, that I can't bring myself to watch it. In fact, I've often thought that this was a failed reattempt at Brave, except instead of adding some logic to the whole bear transformation (which Brave just manages to get away with by making it a magical curse via eating cake), it just has it in there without any explanation or consistency. Like if MeiMei's transformation is meant to be a representation of puberty, as well as a symbol of her ancestors, wouldn't others her age like her close friends go through a similar transformation, but as different creatures in this alternate Earth timeline? If this was also written into the story for MeiMei and others without the magical element, it would have at least explained her friends' embracing her in her panda form without any issue, and not gotten scared out of their hair pins by finding their best friend as a red furry animal. That and it also could've made the story more relatable showing other characters' struggles which MeiMei is humbled by over time and becoming less of a brat. Which ironically is what Merida had but a slighter better arc in her film, albeit not a perfect one either. And that's only just one of the questions that I doubt has a proper answer over this movie. Then again, this movie is already a mess with how it mishandles a story meant to be set in the early 2000s, yet having a scene of MeiMei twerking and citing a certain political reference in the mix which weren't really big trends til roughly the last 10 years - except maybe the last one being around of longer but I digress... All in all, Pixar is (and has been for awhile) in a deep creative low alongside its cousin studio Disney Animation. It'll be a long long time before both get out of this mediocre era, whenever that'll be....

[@ElvenMoth]

That would have made for a better story, and it would require good writing. Having other animal spirits is honestly very interesting.

[@debzykvids]

@@ElvenMoth Yes indeed, especially when Pixar is known for its universal themes in their films which appeal to many, that Turning Red completely went against and made its audience extremely niche as a result. So the idea of the other characters as animals too (including the guys) at least would have taken an interesting approach to adolescence (like with Inside Out having everyone with living emotions in their heads, not just Riley). Either that or a backstory involving genetic stages relating to a scientific government experiment gone wrong, would have also made way more sense than what we got.

[@debzykvids]

@Greg Elchert Yes true, both Merida and Elinor's arcs are about them restoring the positive mother-daughter relationship from before the main story (as shown in the 5 min prologue before the title card). And Merida herself obvs doesn't hate her mother from that starting point, it's a gradual dislike partly caused from getting older and desiring independence from stifling traditions enforced on her by her mother, as inspired from the period Brave is set in. Turning Red however, implies MeiMei having little genuine liking to her parents, making herself almost narcissistic, or at least holding a big self centered ego, that not even Merida had as much. And while it may be inspired from Asian cultural views of family upbringing, etc, it doesn't bring much nuance to Ming or even her husband outside of a small family rift involving Ming's relatives disliking their marriage.

[@citrus_sweet]

I think her shapeshifting was completely lost in translation to a lot of people. It's based off of old chinese legends of animals who were granted humanity by the heavens after passing great tribulations and strife but since these animals are going against the natural ways of life they are actually considered the eastern equivalent of a sort of demon. Since passing a heavenly tribulation would be extremely difficult, shapeshifters like her family should be very rare and since shapeshifters are considered demonic in eastern mythology they would probably be in hiding and wouldn't want to flaunt it. This is actually a pretty popular trope in chinese film and animation, and I've also occasionally seen it in japanese media but it's difficult to really explain because chinese mythology has a lot of features that aren't common in western mythology.

[@debzykvids]

@@citrus_sweet That explains things a little bit; my issue with it though isn't the legend as an inspiration, but rather it doesn't fit or make a lot of logical sense with the allegoric concept on adolescence very well, at least with how it's portrayed in Turning Red. Had there been further explanation in the backstory of their powers, like the possible persecution MeiMei's ancestors went through in later centuries by their own people, adding onto the further shame and embarrassment her current family have, could have improved it somewhat. But still it wouldn't have worked entirely with the adolescence part imo.

[@Tigerlady248]

May I also add, the cheap sequel to The Goofy Movie, An Extreme Goofy Movie, ALSO has a better version of a coming-to-age story?! In that it's about Max going to college and trying to fit in, while Goofy has his own arc about letting go and finding his own path in life. For a direct-to-VHS movie, its plot is STILL BETTER then Turning Red.

[@freshoffthehook904]

I think this movie would have been a lot better if the friendships were less established from the beginning. If Meme had failed to make friends before due to her mom's overprotectiveness and she only started making friends once she started transforming. Have her trade conforming to her mother's expectations for conforming to the pear pressure. Some of those "friends" could have only been hanging around for social clout and actually been a bad influence and then when she goes too far and her mom finds out she throws everyone under the bus. Even the friends who were being genuine towards her. However, her genuine friends still stick up for her to the popular crowd and then she learns to stick up for herself with her mother by taking more responsibility for her own actions along with the increased freedom.

[@suzanneclark7706]

Now THAT is a good idea

[@maravreloaded]

Someone pass the memo to Pixar telling them that the ones with the ability to transform were the TANUKIS and not the RED PANDAS.

[@nathanlehman9415]

Somehow, you missed the point of both the video AND the movie it is criticizing.

[@RayvenTheNight]

Wait... so this is a movie about a girl starting puberty and then using her new found body to get money and whatever she wants???... and thats ok cause to her thats nothing wrong... WHAT???

[@boxerhummer]

I have 0 problem in people liking turning red, but 90% of the time not only do those people get hostile in trying to defend it, but they'll also give the weirdest takes in the attempt. Clearly the "awkward period stage" is a story some women desperately want to see more of, but this movie ain't just flawed, it's straight up broken.

[@jendoe9436]

The “awkward period stage” is one of my least favorite stories and conversations 🫣 I don’t mind discussing it with good gal friends and making a joke here or there, but I really don’t like the whole “period acceptance” thing our culture is trying to promote. A simple coming of age where a child character changes as they age and go through life is just fine. It can just be a simple metaphor that can apply to both boys and girls, as puberty sucks for both groups. If someone insists on doing the “awkward period stage” in some fashion, be like King of the Hill. In one episode, the neighbor’s teenage daughter has to stay with the Hills for a few days as her parents are on a work conference or something. The first night she’s polite, sweet, and normal. Next night, she’s moody, cranky, and is almost a jerk to them. It’s not until the next morning that we learn she’s having her first period and Hank (being an awkward guy when someone brings up personal stuff, ESPECIALLY female personal stuff) goes down the aisle to buy her pads. Did not need to see any bleeding or be told “she’s having her first period!” to understand what was happening. The simple and subtle signs were enough for me to understand what was happening without feeling like periods were being over exaggerated.

[@unitedcity_mc4421]

Turning Red is literally the worst movie in the entire world, and is an insult to Disney, Pixar, and all other good animated films.

[@yalovoyhznepomny]

Not really

[@Неототалист]

​@@yalovoyhznepomnyyeah, we still have shit even worse

[@AegisKHAOS]

Definitely my biggest gripe of them all. The mother was certainly overbearing and needed to learn to mellow out, but then Mei Mei gets to continue to be a brat. Nothing changed other than she gets to keep her panda. :p Also, as a Chinese Torontonian, I am both impressed and let down by the setting of the movie. :p Impressed that downtown Toronto was recreated, but then my reaction was 'really, of all places to make this fairytale, Toronto?'

[@sharkinator7819]

Isn’t Toronto the place where you film when you can’t afford New York or Chicago?

[@AegisKHAOS]

@@sharkinator7819 Yup, Toronto is used for filming because it's cheaper. Canada in general, really, but you definitely see plenty of Toronto masquerading as American cities.

[@John-fk2ky]

@@AegisKHAOS expanding Canada a little, a lot of the outdoor (and possibly indoor, but honestly don’t know) scenes for the show Star-Gate SG-1 were shot in Vancouver precisely because it was cheaper than shooting in the US.

[@AegisKHAOS]

@@John-fk2ky X-Files was also originally shot in Vancouver as well. We are Hollywood North for a reason.

[@KororaPenguin]

C. S. Lewis pointed out that when a fairy tale is written, it usually starts out with the mundane. Of course, your average fairy tale carries better morals than _Turning Red_ has. "Rumpelstiltskin" condemns predatory bargains that exploit someone's dire need, "Cinderella" is about the proud being brought low and the humble raised, and so on.

[@haku8135]

How is it even possible for Mei's mother to be THAT tactless? Like the tampon thing, if she thinks her daughter needs them, it makes sense she'd come to give her some, in fact that's a GOOD mom..... BUT WHY IS SHE FLAUNTING THEM IN FRONT OF EVERYONE!? Have her called to the office, take her aside, slip them to her SUBTLY and the WORST case scenario is Mei feels awkward because she doesn't actually need them. WHY would she flaunt her kid's not even that risque drawings of someone, TO THE PERSON THEY'RE A DRAWING OFF! That's not even overprotective, that's just ten levels of what! Like she would need to take the drawing, take Mei, get her into the car, drive to the store, take Mei INTO the store, confront him about it and then show him the drawing!!!! That's a LOT of time she would spend just NOT listening to a damn thing her daughter says first of all, and second of all to maintain so much anger at something HER DAUGHTER WAS DOING to direct this much tactlessness at some random guy. I can't even fathom this, when a parent embarrasses their kid it's by listening to uncool music, or trying to be "cool", not being COMPLETELY tactless and inconsiderate to them! She's not even a bad parent, she's just an insanely stupid one. It's like she actively wants to humiliate her! Like seriously, these are the kinds of things I'd expect to see in Family Guy!

[@nk_3332]

And Disney objects to being accused of grooming.

[@infiniteplanes5775]

What does grooming even mean? I keep seeing it in contexts that don’t fit with the standard definition

[@royce_beyer]

@@infiniteplanes5775 Grooming in this context means to train children into being more "fun" for adults who should NEVER be around children.

[@infiniteplanes5775]

@@royce_beyer That is what I thought. But I don't think it fits here. Nevermind, I just had a realization

[@-lord1754]

Its grooming but not in the way you are saying. Its grooming kids to be mindless consumers why preseting themes that prevent them from maturing and mindlessly repeating popular buzzwords and or phrases like my body my choicr

[@David-uc4hc]

@@-lord1754 Seems like we're devaluing the idea of grooming quite a bit here then.

[@SergioLeonardoCornejo]

I'm glad this wil give me the resources to explain why it is bad when someone defends it.

[@Неототалист]

Unfortunately, It won't. You can see it in the comments, there are some fans of this movie and they're trying their best to cope with the notion that it was terrible.

[@johnninocovers]

I'm soooooo tired of animated family films with 'generational trauma' themes. It's tired and they don't do anything new with it. It's not their fault, it's the parents' parents blah blah

[@maravreloaded]

And why is the movie trying so DESPERATELY to be _"Kawaii Desu"_ with anime-style eye glitter? The designs of THIS are *_NOT GOOD FOR THAT!_* It ends up looking ridiculous and just like Pixar doing a _"Hello there fellow kids"._

[@Thomasmemoryscentral]

See it more of Pixar adapting the 2010's bean mouth simplified designs and it doesnt translate into 3D graphics

[@maravreloaded]

@@Thomasmemoryscentral Yeah buy the "cal arts" doesn't have animu glittery eyes.

[@realhuman4879]

The worst part is the there is no mention of 9/11 or the effects of it

[@crimsont6977]

is this comment satire? lmaoo

[@maravreloaded]

This movie would have made a MINIMUM of sense if the panda girl was a 17 almost 18 year old teenager. And her mother still saw her as a child. _There's your _*_"CONFLICT"_*_ waste of celluloid!_ But if you're JUST 13 you're not responsible you're not old enough to be in charge of yourself and you HAVEN'T EVEN FINISHED HIGH SCHOOL! Yeah I get the _"kids think they know the best"_ but the movie doesn't disapprove it but ENCOURAGES IT!

[@mariokarter13]

It's a coming of age story, specifically the writer's coming of age story. She held onto this self-insert boyband fanfiction for 20 years and now she's realized she's turning into her mother.

[@timberwolf4698]

Turning Red is a period liberal fetish film, because I don’t get why the period obsession.

[@Luzuname]

Did you forget that women have periods. Its a common thing 😂

[@timberwolf4698]

And what is a woman?

[@Luzuname]

@@timberwolf4698 oh ya know that person that gave birth to you. If your mother didnt have period you wouldnt exists

[@michygmouse2276]

I very sincerely want to thank you for this video. I unfortunately related to the character of Turning Red in the sense that I felt my parents were overbearing even though, like the main character, my parents, though flawed, are committed, hard working, and ultimately loving, wanting the best future for me. Embarrassingly I still easily find blame in the world even though I have good friends, good house etc. and I'm not lacking. I instinctively knew something was wrong with the movie (the day won by TWERKING was big hint enough) and your video not only blew the movies message apart but also blew my out my narcissist worldview. I've been crying for like an hour now partly cause what a jerk I've been but also from utter relief saved from living many more years like this! Needless to say, subscribing and keep up the good work!

[@sparkleypegs8350]

The racism of depiction is what gets me. None of these people look Asian. Its as though depicting people as they really appear is suddenly a 'stereotype' and is therefore racist? Weird as hell. And the least Asian of all is Mei Mei. Also that bean mouth cartoon style completely sucks.

[@Black_Revue]

I thought it looked like a Bootleg Pseudo Anime style

[@chiebukachibee-zoraedu]

@@Black_Revue So it's wrong to emulate the anime style?

[@Black_Revue]

@@chiebukachibee-zoraedu Not much unless it's wasted on a Movie made for the Writer and No one else...

[@chiebukachibee-zoraedu]

@@Black_Revue I guess some people can't relate to things other than it's just like them!

[@thefool8224]

@@chiebukachibee-zoraedu .like the one who made it?

[@SirLagsALot008]

You have no idea how happy I am to finally have found someone else with the same opinion as me. Turning Red is one of, if not, the worst movie ive ever watched. Why is it that every time I see a horrible, ridiculous movie, everyone loves it, and every time I see a great, excellent movie, everybody else hates it?

[@ladyheavdev]

Same!!!! It's so bad. The fact that people said they relate to Mei makes me lose hope in humanity.😢

[@noahalcantar2431]

I HATE THIS TREND!!!!!

[@ladyheavdev]

@@noahalcantar2431 Dang it me too! Am I losing touch or am I one of the few people that has a grasp of good movie writing anymore?

[@morrisonscott1139]

So basically, this film was made by writers who haven't mentally matured since they were 13

[@leethompson-kolar6333]

I hear you here, but I’m more disturbed by the fact that Turning Red doesn’t acknowledge the public hysteria caused by the events of Septe-

[@MegaGlassguy]

@Solomon Hailemichael Mr.Enter, a cartoon critic, made an infamous bad take where he criticized this movie for not referencing 9/11 (because it is set in 2001, albeit in Canada and not the US). OP was referencing that take.

[@DTylerFultzVA]

"My Panda, my choice" I can't decide if this is a deliberate innuendo or an unfortunate coincidence, and I don't know what would be worse.

[@saintsheepy6682]

It's the former in my eyes.

[@maravreloaded]

_"And then Mei Mei became the special guest of a lot of _*_furry-con orgies."_* _The End_

[@beyondme0376]

The ironic thing is the creator of this movie did a much better job on with the short she did called bao where woman sees her son grow before her eyes. I won’t give away everything but it shows this woman could’ve done this movie right

[@Treeeee2008]

Remember when this movie was critically acclaimed and people were calling it Disney's best film in years? I'm glad that's all over.

[@wojak-sensei6424]

Modern Hollywood sure likes it's coming of age stories. Ironic, considering most of them sound like they never grew past middle school.

[@TeamGalactic-Cyrus]

I was gonna say these movies were a joke but they aren't even funny

[@metademetra]

I'm a bit concerned that you think Mirabel standing up for herself against her emotionally abusive grandmother that's putting her emotional issues on her grandkids is a bad thing. The grandmother NEEDED to apologize to her entire family in order for Encanto to have anything resembling a positive message. Otherwise it would have just been Raya's garbage message about how you should unconditionally forgive people that hurt you all over again. Edit for side note: it occurs to me that this movie is basically just Wolf Walkers but more generic. That movie was also about not blindly following authority, but it also did a good job of discerning what good and bad instruction looked like.

[@LucyLoud_Fan]

In my opinion, this is Pixar’s new worst movie

[@ladyheavdev]

So dang true😊

[@mrheello5181]

Even worse than "Lightyear"?

[@hsuehhs1]

It’s the best Pixar’s movie

[@iamdivan7368]

I think the problematic lesson this movie teaches is that your social anxiety comes from not accepting yourself, and if you learn to love every part of yourself, people around you will love you too. And loving yourself IS a good advice, but it won't lead to everyone loving you. In reality there will ALWAYS be people who will hate you specifically for who you are. The real lesson real children learn in a situation like this is that you shouldn't seek approval of society for all your feelings. That you should love yourself no matter what everyone thinks, sometimes in the opposite of everyone's opinions. That happiness comes from the inside of a person, you know. This movie, however, makes sure to teach kids that they should, in fact, seek social approval, and say that everyone will love them one day for every single part of their character

[@JohnSmith-cn4cw]

Almost 30 years between Red and the Goofy movie. That's the same difference in time in Back to the Future.

[@dark-qu9wi]

That fact that People defend this movie is sickening

[@straydogfreedom7795]

I think the worst part of Turning Red is it's association with Red Pandas. They did nothing to deserve that taint.

[@crystalfisher7330]

I’m so glad I’m not the only person that really disliked this movie

[@dandare9055]

Also: power of horny is strong in the west. Having no romantic understanding and no romantic ties seems to be a default of 'creative elites'. This is damnably visible whenever the criticism of slice of life stories from Japan is brought up. Those stories despite some fanservice are always predominantly mainly romantic and horny is only a side-joke or addition. Those stories are pretty much having 50/50 split in audience on male and female audience in recent years as ironically: male readers are yearning romance and female readers are recently looking for cute girl characters. I know that by all logic of 'mainstream know how' it should be opposite but... there is likely complex issue with drought on both sides. Girls no longer get their princesses, cute barbies and all-together have no one promoting their idealized image. Something that was normal thing in past. Meantime men feel betrayed and yearn mental support. Coomers are in fact minority here. There is a reason why memes in category "what we really want" resonate with such large swats with humanity. But returning to criticism on those Japanese romance stories: they are claimed to be a male fantasy! One would expect that because girl is cute in most of them and while this is brought up, the far more reason cited is "because she acts in such a way". After further discussion there is always conclusion that girl acting not solely on 'horny' and actually having deeper personality as well as seeing the boy as living human being rather than an outlet for her needs is: apparently unrealistic and too much of a high standard. Which I might add: is HORRIBLY sexist towards women, but I guess this is 'Elites' projection here. It seems like 'Tha West' turned it's back on classical romance completely at some point. Not in case of audience, heck there is a reason why Japanese romcoms are so darn popular, but the 'writer elites' seem to think an idea of relationship being about anything else than sex and money is 'stupid and outdated'. This is even visible in their high prized LGBT-lmnop representation romances where whole shtick is as deep as a puddle on Sahara and coupling is pretty much all about physical attraction and sexual fantasies.

[@guragat2]

i guess they oversimplified or stripped out the idea of romance

[@anayos6726]

It’s very intentional. Entertainment is ground zero for degeneracy and demoralization, to which idiots either don’t notice, or are too emasculated to do anything.

[@theamazinggarbage3209]

Idk man, most stories I have seen as “male fantasy” in anime have been called that because their female cast is… lackluster in personality and very out there physically.

[@Nopeasaurus]

The power of horny is even stronger in Japanese anime, to the point where its just downright hard to watch. There is a huge amount of fan service of female characters, some of whom are minors, for content made for male audiences. The female characters have tits the size of hills attached to their chest and other characters always end up groping them. In iskeais, the bland male character is transported to another world and somehow gains a "harem" of attractive female characters who all fawn over him despite his complete lack of interest for any of them.

[@dandare9055]

@@Nopeasaurus The mere presence of fanservice though does not devolve presence of romance, intrepersonal relationships and personality development - all of which are almost non-present in the west or are depicted in self-contradicting and inconsistent ways. Same way there is a TON upon tons of sexualization of minors in west but it not talked of due to being plain ugly most of the time (oh iron E) which leads many to believe that even small children can be sexualized as long as they do not look attractive in western media which makes no sense from any logical approach. You also omitted fun factor of there being about 2/3 as many reverse harems (or more if we count games as Otome is massive genre) as regular ones. Ironically the harems in anime most of the time though would still include complex character personality archetypes along with matching backgrounds as Japan did learn about 40~ish years ago that it is not all about the body. Weirdly enough though this is something lacking in West. To extrapolate: in recent western stories you can easily replace girl A with girl B aaaand nothing will change as they are basically the same. Even in a low brow harem stories it is almost impossible to replace one member with another and not have anyone notice personality-wise as big chunk of long term investment in 'liking a character' comes not from solely their looks. Same way Isekais can be these days associated with a male story as "Mushoku Tensei" and later iterations popularized it but core idea is of character not being plain in any way shape or form in another world. Had they been: they would repeat last life just in a bit more picturesque setting. Ironically this genre was also very prominent in Female Fantasy and it was very popular trope in the 90s that otherwise plain and not very popular girls would become heroines in another world. It was likely culminated with "Magic Knights Rayearth" where all the trope plain girls - 'prim and proper lady with no real friends', 'nerdy studious girl' and 'tomboy' (at time when Tomboy was very much scorned in Japan) were Isekaied as a group. Ironically there is a lot of what we would consider fanservice of that time in this story on... all sides, including some Shotacon. But the authors were female and it is kind of open secret that female writers are more pervy in general (at least in Japan). Still though: the story was VERY MUCH romantic with many sub-plots to it and while there was a motive of sexual attraction to romance of each girl - it played secondary role and at most it was most prominent with Tomboy archetype really liking the looks of her love interest. To the further defense it was also not reverse harem this time... each girl had romance cut for her. So is Japan more horny? Maybe... they do it in a flashier fashion with more effort put into it thus it becomes visible, but not more commonly by any stretch of imagination. Is Japan storytelling more romance driven? DEFINITELY, as in west it is almost non-present these days. When each female character can be described with exact same descriptors and each male character is liked 90% for their looks and some odd 10% for status (something mostly made fun of in Japanese stories) - romance is not just dead - it's gutted and thrown deep into the ditch at this point.

[@SuperLuis225]

"You either die a villain, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain..." #Turning red# "Not if I'm proud of who I become!"

[@1MarmadukeFan]

HTTYD did this dynamic better too. If you listen to the director commentary, they consciously wanted to balance the dad’s character so that he was flawed but relatable. That’s also a movie where the parental figure’s character flaw creates the problem, but the teen protagonist solves the problem not by beating up his dad but by becoming the kind of man his father can be proud of.

[@jendoe9436]

One of the many reasons I love HTTYD. Stoick and Hiccup’s relationship really sells that it is possible to love your family, but understand there can still be clashes in personalities. However, the two actually work through this clashes together and with the help of others. Stoick would move the world to protect his son, and Hiccup knows his dad wants only the best for him. The shows did a great job giving them both instances where one was more right than the other, but makes sure to display that there is still respect between them. Both are actually very similar in a lot of ways, they just express it differently.

[@TaoScribble]

Magical puberty...that she exploits for profit?? I get that "magical puberty" is how it was pitched, but they _probably_ shouldn't have shared that. I actually didn't know anything about this movie other than people saying it was good because it tackled female puberty and was about periods or whatever, but they never elaborated further. I saw the trailer and never got it. I thought "I think you're looking too far into things." But now that I know what actually happens, along with the puberty thing being the pitch? Yeah... Kinda weird. Kinda REALLY weird. But I also wonder if a kid would even know it's about puberty. Maybe I'm dense, but gaining magical powers/transformations at a certain age is _kinda_ a trope; one I never looked too far into as a kid. It was just magic. XD ...But it was the other messages I looked at. And the other messages in this are...a BIT concerning.

[@spectralight8412]

Aside from the deep heartfelt moments from the Goofy Movie. One of the best moments is Goofy taking Max to Roxanne’s house at the end to make him confess the truth of his actions. Imparting the message Goofy didn’t want Max to go into a relationship maintaining a lie and that he needed honesty in a relationship. It’s a good message to both Max and the viewers.

[@angel_of_rust]

So Mei was just an Asian Mary Sue? never knew

[@klulu-kun]

A great animated coming of age/family bonding movie that sort of got shadow released was The Mitchells vs The Machines. The young teenager and the parents give and take, sharing virtues and flaws with each other. Moving on, accepting, remembering traditions, and becoming stronger in the end. Respecting your parent’s concerns but also letting your child follow their dreams.

[@nobafan7515]

This is why I think the movie has a narrative flaw with the red panda as a puberty/pms metaphor: it either makes no sense or it implies disgusting events happened, or as you say it doesn't make any meaningful impact for the movie (take out the red panda and almost nothing changes narratively).

[@whisped8145]

Learning to control your emotions, would be the adult thing to do, it would be emotional maturation. However, the movie rejects that by its very own ending.

[@robertbeisert3315]

There are three kinds of flaws: those you can improve, those you can work around, and those you must simply accept. Easy example, I must accept that I will likely never again eat wheat or gluten. I cannot change it, and I cannot work around it through therapy or pills. I can improve my weight and overall fitness. I can work around my autism. The only acceptance I need is to accept that these are flaws, and to accept that I need to improve.

[@nenmaster5218]

LD isnt following what he preaches. Integrity, Honesty, Maturity, all that is not quite anywhere-present in his phrasing about Peterson, insinuating the very act of Criticizing the Man is utter Insanity. Not disliking him is One Thing but Insinuating theres 'not a single valid Criticism-Point ever made against Peterson' is; in all honesty; quite silly. KZbinr Some More News took nothing less than 3 Hours to list all the Problems with him and even than brushed-over a lot - the video could have been longer.

[@jordanryanfilmmaking]

I agree with your points but be careful with tossing Encanto in the same bin. Mirabel helped her family by meeting them where they were and not seeing them as merely a means to help the community. Her empathetic qualities help break down barriers and characters open up around her. It helps the family truly heal and grow stronger. If you have counter points I would like to hear them. But the story is not just about how Abuela was wrong because she was old lol.

[@alecperdeau650]

Also Devil, could you elaborate more on why you place Encanto in this category? I get what everyone says with the entire generational trauma being overplayed in Disney movies as of late, but I never got the sense that the film was in the same camp of narcissism as other millennial creations. Mirabel did have a more traditional heroine journey by discovering her uniquely feminine touch to solve the problems in her family, make peace with those around her by letting go of her prejudices/jealousy towards her other family members and confront the matriarch of her family about what was wrong. Unless I overlooked something, I don't understand why you placed it on Turning Red's level of bad writing.

[@jasonfurumetarualkemisto5917]

Encanto differs from Turning Red because of one thing, Sincerity, unlike Red which is a movie probably meant to stroke the creators Ego, Encanto tried to tell a good story. They started off OK, reached a good point and dropped hard. A lot of characters where flawed, but few learned anything from them and most didn't come to terms with their wrongdoings. For Instance, BRUNO, ...throughout the movie we saw that he was ostracised and villainised for the simple act of telling people the truth, his reputation twisted from an odd but nice guy into a menacing villain. After the confrontation his Mother, sisters and the town should have had to apologise and truly make ammends. No such thing is done, not truly, telling someone "I missed you so much" for 10secs after you run him out of town and smear his name isn't proportionate to the pain you inflicted. He should have confronted his mother and show her the error of her actions and the horrible way she treated him over something that wasn't his fault. Then she should have apologised to him, in front of EVERYONE. Mirabelle steals this moment from him and the grandma thus has no need for the confrontation. After this point Bruno has served his purpose in the story, he has been tossed aside again. This is one of the major flaws I had with the show, it took the easy way out.

[@maravreloaded]

They wanted to copy so much from Ranma 1/2 or Brand New Animal. But in BNA Michiru DOES have a reason to hate her "beastman" status. Because it took EVERYTHING away from her, her family, her life, her dreams. She lost it because someone altered her genes and in a rampage brought out her furry side. And she was hunted for almost a year since it happened. Because in that world we are confirmed FROM MINUTE ONE that humans hate beastmen. They were going to KILL her! That's why she HATES being a tanuki but learns to control that ability, that POWER until she uses it to the fullest, accepting her beastman form as her true self. This c(u)nt this *kick to the balls* of a character is a narcissistic hypocrite who hasn't suffered a bit in her life and her biggest disappointment is _"not going to the Johnnah's Brothers concert owww poor meeee!"_ Her reason for hating her SUPERPOWER (it's not a curse it's a superpower since she controled it) is literally *_"Because the plot required it"._* Everyone loves it, everyone loves her, she can control that power just like that out of nowhere. There is NO CONFLICT there is only _"see mom? I can show my ass on the internet and you have nothing to criticize me for!!!"_