Rings of Power is a Disappointment, Here's Why | An Overdue Critique

[@HelloFutureMe]

TERRA NOVA GANG RISE UP JOIN THE DISCORD discord.gg/vvMBpZa6Xh but also check out Lindsey's video on how to adapt Lord of the Rings RIGHT nebula.tv/videos/lindsayellis-how-they-adapted-lord-of-the-rings?ref=hellofutureme

[@pyeitme508]

WOW!

[@luigiboi4244]

I joined the discord the second I saw the link.

[@KaiHung-wv3ul]

I usually don't really enjoy watching negative reviews, and I usually don't enjoy watching long reviews. But this is an exception. Edit: House of the Dragon review next, maybe?

[@secretlyadragon4723]

Nope. Not just you. I really enjoyed Terra Nova. *shouts into the void,* *'season 2, where are you?'*

[@EastCoastArchMage]

Thanks Tim, for striving to build a bigger table!

[@OverlySarcasticProductions]

Rings of Power? Disappointment. Tim's video? Best shit I've ever seen. -B

[@mathwiz1007]

I’ll always appreciate the recurring bond between two of my favorite KZbin channels

[@joryjones6808]

Did we all just mishear Tim calling Doctor Who poorly written.

[@karlwilker579]

@@mathwiz1007 My experience with KZbin is basically realizing that most of my favorite KZbinrs know each other.

[@HelloFutureMe]

​@@joryjones6808i adore Doctor Who with all my heart, but it is no stranger to poor writing. It doesnt mean i wont love it, but it is there. It also has some of the best writing ive ever had the pleasure of experiencing. ~ Tim

[@pinkbuninja6536]

@@HelloFutureMe agreed on all accounts

[@ManCarryingThing]

Sanderson's face saying "an 8 out of ten??" will never not be funny to me

[@theleftfootedsultan]

Man carrying the comments section

[@zachryder3150]

Mr Memelord over here thinking he knows anything about BookTube. /s

[@robertwild9447]

You're the absolute legend who never misses! The man who carried the thing! 😱

[@_HJ_K]

I know this guy!

[@jackwriter1908]

Too true, everytime I hear the outrage in his voice when asking _"8 out of 10?!"_ I can't stop laughing 😂

[@andrewthompson9619]

Cinema Therapy did a great video on how Aragorn represents healthy masculinity. He's equally capable of being strong and being warm and considerate. In the scene where Boromir dies (spoilers) he goes straight from decapitating an orc to tenderly comforting his dying friend. As a King, he's brave enough to lead the charge into battle and humble enough to bow to the hobbits. Dude sings a sonnet at his own wedding to an elf princess. He's a great example to young boys that "being a man" can mean a lot of different things, and crucially that it doesn't mean putting others down.

[@TheRibottoStudios]

Even Legolas learns what humanity and "being a man" is. He's an elf; they're just kinda naturally better than humans in most ways. But he becomes friends with a dwarf, with Hobbits, with men. And he's still badass just like Aragorn. They aren't emasculated by showing their humanity. In fact by showing humanity they're stronger for it.

[@Pandaemoni]

Aragorn doesn't actually bow to the hobbits (and definitely there is no mass wave of bowing before them), that's more a movie thing. He does get down a knee in the camp at the Field of Cormallen after sitting them (Frodo and Sam) on his throne, but that was likely more about getting to their eye level given how it's presented. He also praised them (shouting, "Praise them with great praise!") for all they-again, Frodo and Sam-had done, but the line, "My friends, you bow to no one" is a Jacksonian addition. It may be a bit of a modernism given that we generally don't think royalty in entitled to obeisance in the way that medieval people did and Tolkien had many pre-modern sensibilities arising from his love of medieval stories.

[@larrytedmcbride]

Boom! Like 101 baby. Great equation.

[@TheRibottoStudios]

​@Pandaemoni well if that's a movie change it's one that I can't find any fault in.

[@王征服]

A HFMxCinema Therapy collab NEEDS to happen!!

[@reviewsbyjacob9350]

"The sea is always right" was Amazon's painfully transparent attempt at trying to have their own "Winter is Coming."

[@aperson9847]

This is honestly such a good way to boil down why Rings of Power failed so spectacularly. "Winter is coming" makes you feel something, it's ominous. "The sea is always right" just makes you go.....what? What does that mean? There's no emotion attached to it other than vague confusion.

[@ETHER3AL2205]

@@aperson9847I love how elendil says the sea is always right, but his wife drowned, like the writers didn’t put two seconds of thought into this.

[@TheRibottoStudios]

Compare this to "one does not simply walk into Mordor." Yes it's been memed to hell, but there WAS REASON for the line to be said. Here? It just doesn't make sense.

[@michellewang3270]

I don't know why, this line reminded of when Dom Toretto said: The street always wins 🤣🤣

[@BehuraStudio]

“What is Dead May Never Die” too cuz the Ironborn are more of the seafaring boat folk of Planetos

[@Trekkie46]

In the books, the letter C is always pronounced like a K instead of an S. In Rings Of Power, it's pronounced however it feels like because the C is always right.

[@cailin5301]

WOW 😂😂😂

[@JainaSoloB312]

This is too good🤣

[@byereality7492]

I can't decide if I should tell you to get out, or to stay here and make more jokes. Genuinely torn

[@EmethMatthew]

Lol

[@Delphox_5000]

😂😂😂

[@claireleb]

My husband walked in and asked me what I was watching. I replied, “A critique on the Rings of Power, you know, that show we watched a while ago.” He paused and said, “I can’t recall that show at all.” For context, he’s someone who didn’t grow up watching LoTR but enjoyed the movies as an adult (even the Hobbit ones). But his response sums it up: the Rings of Power is pretty forgettable.

[@paulderosa3065]

The show is merely ok at best and downright stupid at the worst. My biggest problem is that the show isn’t memorable. Even the Hobbit movies had plenty of memorable moments for me, and the Lord of the Rings movies were chock full of wonderful, memorable, amazing moments. This show…barely anything stands out. I remember in a few reviews seeing the scene where Galadriel shouts “ There is a tempest in me!” and I legitimately had no memory of seeing that in the show.

[@HelloFutureMe]

There was originally a part of the script where I got my friend, who does not know LotR, to try and recount the plot for RoP. It was rhe funniest stuff because she remembered like none of it but sadly did not fit anywhere. ~ Tim

[@claireleb]

@@HelloFutureMe would love to have seen that! Alternatively, it would be a great short 😆

[@TiVeigaKung]

yeah, that pretty much sums it up. And for the amount of money they spent not being able to create a single memorable moment is a feat on itself.

[@ZttackFrmBhind]

I watched ROP with a couple of friends who "liked it". I say "liked it" because I have asked them to recount or even mention one scene that they were happy was there or they really enjoyed. They could only say that they "liked to be back in the world again."

[@And-ur6ol]

"Rings of Power is simultaneously structured around the Halbrand reveal, but not written to give it meaning." That is a great summary!

[@deceiver444]

Halbrand

[@And-ur6ol]

@@deceiver444 corrected

[@sebastianevangelista4921]

Not to be that guy but I believe you mean "summary" or "summarization".

[@jimihendrix23456]

I remember thinking the show was pretty decent overall. Then the Sauron reveal happened, and I realized I'd completely forgotten that Halbrand was supposed to be important. Could not remember a single thing he'd said or done before teaching the "master smith" about alloys, and I think I'd muddied his and Isildur's characters together in my head. I didn't bother a rewatch to try parsing them out.

[@Sornemus]

Ehm, no? How is ROP structured around "Hallbrand reveal"? The reveal is literally last 30 minutes of episode. It dit not drive the plot at all - quite opposite, the plot specifically sent that dude to find some scroll - to facilitate this reveal. Nothing prior to that was contributing to the actual "reveal" ever, lmao.

[@satana8157]

One of the problems for Galadriel's character that I don't hear being talked about is that she basically wants to get revenge on her brother and nobody cares about it. But in episode 7, she reveals out of nowhere that she had a husband that is taken by Sauron which apparently she doesn't even care about. The thing that immediately popped into my head was that if she was trying to find her husband that everybody believed to be dead, but she thought that is alive, and she was doing all of this to find and rescue him, she would become instantly more likable and her motivations would become clearer.

[@raghav1026]

Yep, but women cannot show affection for men in the fucked world of today.

[@alejeron]

just a quick quibble in regards to the the Murder Hobbits section: leaving people behind is *not* something that real nomadic societies would do and is not realistic. Particularly in regards to injuries that can be healed. An adult human represents an incredible amount of resources that that society has invested in them. abandoning an entire family group because of a minor injury would be unthinkable to any semi-successful human society throughout history. one of the earliest signs of complex social groups is mended bones. Additionally, there is just a whole mess of issues with the realism of the societies that the showrunners have invented for this show, the hobbits worst of all

[@MajorSmurf]

Yep also it would in all likelihood led to revolts or people outright leaving that tribe and forming their own. Like imagine your best friend is abandoned because of an curable injury. Do the writers think nomadic people who would value loyalty and have a strong bond with each other would be accepting of such a decision? The tradition would never even start in the first place because the first time someone attempted it, they'd have many others fighting for their friend and his/her family or giving them the finger and leaving with their friends. Than there's another thing nomadic people need a bunch of families as having multiple bloodlines is important else we get into the inbreeding stage and at that point the whole tribe is screwed. Very unlikely for them to find another hobbit family to join up when they're constantly migrating and suspicious of outsiders anyway. Nomad life was rough and sticking together through thick and thin is what kept them alive. You start betraying or throwing away life's in that style of life and no-one will trust you. Someone would stab the leader at that point for murder/revenge.

[@USSAnimeNCC-]

I can say the same with hunter gather society they didn't have the strict view of gender that people like to think or what the 1950s have it sometimes women where found to be hunter or men doing what people think was a women job also these society whete sometimes step up differently form another some would view private property as a joke or sometimes women where the leaders i don't thunk it was the norm but it did happens in reality as oppose to it never and it show how women are as capable as men sure men are stronger but that isn't everything and itt doesn't give that much of an advantage and women are able to fight too

[@NoNo-or2wj]

100% and thank you for saying it. Historically humans survive though PRO-social behaviors. These harfoots wouldn't last a couple generations like this.

[@MohamedRamadan-qi4hl]

​@@USSAnimeNCC-hunter gathers did have gender division of labor with most of the time men being hunters and women gathers, Leadership was mostly about age and no they wouldn't find the concept of private property funny as they didn't have surplus production to produce property, so they wouldn't know why that concept even is Of course we are using your Marxist detention here in which "personal property" isn't considered private property

[@AlanXEverfrost]

@@MajorSmurf Plus it would inspire fear that it could happen to you. I mean, it's already a terrible thing for them to threaten to leave behind your friend or parent, but if it is something they'd regularly do (especially for things that aren't their fault), then how sure can anybody be that they themselves would be safe in this group? If the moment it becomes even slightly inconvenient they'd ditch anybody they could, why even invest in this group? Yes, if there is no hope of escape for the herd a group of animals (of which humans are part of) will leave behind those that they cannot save. But they usually have tried. Newborn calfs are often kept in the center with the adults trying to shield them. Only when they have to run an the child get's bitten and dragged down, THEN and only then do they decide to cut their losses. But they slow down for injured ones on their travels.

[@yourfavoritecouchpotato]

“Rising crime rates in the Shire because of a lack of police infrastructure is also realistic, but that doesn’t mean the Brandybucks are forming a local militia to take out the Sackville-Bagginses” is the funniest quote I have ever heard in my life, thank you.

[@zabi_aka]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@Delphox_5000]

That sounds like a good reality show: "The Dirty Hobbits"

[@DanielGreeneReviews]

Tim, you’re becoming one of the KZbinrs who whenever they drop it feels like an event. Rare territory and damn do I respect the process to invest so much into ONE video.

[@prakharmathur9453]

If only someone did the same for books

[@MxZui]

​@@prakharmathur9453 KrimsonRogue does and it's always a treat! 💛

[@MxZui]

@@prakharmathur9453 KrimsonRogue does and it's always a treat! 💛

[@jossecoupe446]

To reach that rarified atmosphere... if only there wasn't so much dang fantasy news 😔

[@drtaverner]

I cannot wrap my head around why anyone would attempt a Second Age story without access to the extended material. How do you tell Galadrial's story without access to her _literal story?_ It was doomed from the start.

[@Casualete]

They could have made the show about a deep dive into soooooo many other things, but they pick something they can barely talk about? Make it make sense!

[@drtaverner]

@@Casualete Right. So many stories either in or suggested by the LOTR text rather than cover areas people know and doing it wrong.

[@ExtradaemonYT]

Galadriel doesn't have much story in the extended material, Tolkien himself struggled with defining it. She's the worst example you could have given lol.

[@blitz8425]

​@@ExtradaemonYT i mean this is not true. You can say there's not a huge arc there, and that's kind of true, but i encourage you to pick up "the downfall of Numenor" and peruse that. There could have been an entire season of rings of power (given they had the rights) to the Ceoeborn and Galadriel essentially being forced from power in Eregion, only for the Gwaith-i-mirdain led by Celebrimbor to take control of the region. There's a canvas with an outline of a really incredible story, but we know the broad strokes. It gets fuzzy towards the end of the second age, admittedly.

[@ExtradaemonYT]

@@blitz8425Already read it. That's all it is, a canvas of an outline, barely a hint. You give it more credit than the reality deserves.

[@matthewmuir8884]

1:35:30 Perhaps the saddest part about the Hobbit trilogy is that, in 1960, Tolkien himself tried to rewrite The Hobbit to be closer to The Lord of the Rings, and he ultimately scrapped the rewrite because it was no longer The Hobbit, so the movies were ultimately trying to do something Tolkien had tried and ultimately considered a bad idea.

[@TheRibottoStudios]

For as flawed as they are, they're still at least entertaining. You don't entirely question their existence like with Rings of Power.

[@HelloFutureMe]

I had no idea about this! Would have been a fascinating tidbit to include. ~ Tim

[@fisch37]

​@@HelloFutureMeCoincidentally Nerd of the Rings _just_ released a video about it! Haven't seen it yet, but it's gotta be worth something coming from him

[@lasernatoo0]

@@HelloFutureMethe full manuscript of the scrapped ~2.1 chapters can be found in The History of the Hobbit edited by John Rateliff

[@randomrey002]

damn

[@olefredrikskjegstad5972]

I remember when the news broke that Amazon didn’t even have the rights to adapt most of the actual works that dealt with the 2nd age. The question of 'why even?' rung so loud in my head.

[@paulgibbon5991]

I do hope we get even a partial adaptation of the Silmarillion someday. Doesn't have to go into the weeds with the creation myths or trying to tell the whole damn story in one go, but you can easily get amazing stories from just using the Beren & Luthien or the Children of Hurin arcs.

[@olefredrikskjegstad5972]

@@paulgibbon5991 I agree. I would be interested in seeing that. I love the genuinely mythical character that the creation stories and epic legends of the Silmarillion has.

[@radagast7200]

When the Soviet Fellowship outshines your billion dollar monstrosity... you know you done f'ed up...

[@genghisgalahad8465]

Rung of Pow-wow at the Amazon studios....

[@TheAlmostGothic]

@@paulgibbon5991I thoroughly disagree I hope it never gets adapted because considering how modern writers have such a hatred for things they are supposed to be adapting (easy example Witcher) they would absolutely corrupt and destroy any story in the silmarilion

[@Bargarz]

LOL “Galadriel was shipwrecked” Come on. That entire chain of ridiculously plotted chance occurrences and terrible decision making was kicked off by her jumping into the middle of the ocean, because reasons.

[@HelloFutureMe]

Yes 😅 I later clarify the random chain of events in that, but yes, she was not shipwrecked - she found herseld on a shipwreck. ~ Tim

[@pileofcheese5017]

One thing that really bothered me with ROP is how unkindly the show treats non main characters. Background characters are all idiots, often selfish and weak-willed, just going along with whoever seems the most charismatic at the moment. This is especially noticeable in Numenor, and in the southlands. Take the southlands for example: all the background characters speak in low-class (American southern or northern British) accents, they wear dishevelled clothes, have dirt on their face, there are barely any women or children among them, while our main characters look pristine, speak in high class American or British accents, and are wearing colourful clothes. The background characters also never display an ounce of sympathy, gratitude, selflessness, or frankly any positive character trait you could think of. It paints this incredibly dim view of the every-man, when I don't think that really is something that flows from Tolkien's work.

[@AW-uv3cb]

In fact, the opposite (to continue with your last sentence): the hobbits with their love of simple life and hidden virtues like courage, loyalty and perseverance were Tolkien's love letter to the English every-man (by his own admission). He understood people's need for high stories of larger-than-life heroism, but he also understood that we need them precisely to help us find these qualities in our own humble selves.

[@HelloFutureMe]

This is a really good way of putting it. I had not thought of it like that, but yes - that was a common theme, and partly why they felt so bland! ~ Tim

[@JacobGrim]

Honestly, it's probably a reflection of how they (at least subconsciously) see irl lower and middle classes

[@lydiaalexian1435]

Why in the world were the hobbits all so dirty???

[@emilyrln]

@@lydiaalexian1435the hygiene expert sprained their ankle and was left behind 💀

[@zachryder3150]

"Why are there no *emotions* in this show, I specifically requested it?" - Jeff Bezos

[@nont18411]

Don’t disrespect Captain Holt like that

[@iskandarthegreat0487]

Hahaha 🤣 YESS!

[@Tammicci]

Yass queen!

[@gunkulator1]

The only emotion they have in abundance is anger and it's just juvenile anger at that.

[@mori1bund]

@@nont18411 I always call him Lex Luthor's evil twin. ^^

[@AuroraExhale]

Me seeing them add in Dragon Age/Witcher levels of elf racism in Middle Earth threw me so hard when I heard it. Hearing “knife ear” here, in goddamn Lord of the Rings, I had to turn the show off and sit with my head in my hands for a while.

[@seanmcloughlin5983]

Just makes me want a Dragon Age show tbh

[@blitz8425]

It's kind of funny between Legolas and gimli in the movies, each playfully making fun of each other Legolas calling gimli short and gimli calling Legolas a "pointy-ear" but those work because there's no animus behind them. It's two friends ribbing each other as real friends do. In this show though it's just such on the nose social commentary and is completely out of place in Tolkien.

[@ZttackFrmBhind]

I was always hoping that Halbrand would actually be the king of the Southlands. Then we could have watched Sauron corrupt him (eventually becoming a Ringwraith) and have Galadriel struggle with wanting to kill Sauron but not want to fight her friend. There could have been a really interesting tug-of-war over the allegiance of Halbrand.

[@ofthewilderwoods]

No, stop, that’s too interesting! We can’t have that! /s

[@JustWandering]

I was also hoping for this, or that he’d turn out to be the king from the Paths of the Dead and befriend Isildur before betraying him.

[@rae3781]

I wrote an entire tumblr post detailing what I wished happened, and this was a HUGE thing I wanted. Let us see the slow decline of his mental health and corruption by Sauron and the rings!!!! LET ME SEE INNER TURMOIL WITH HIS FRIENDS AND HIS MORALS AND HIS DESIRE FOR POWER UGH

[@ZttackFrmBhind]

@@rae3781 This is why Tv Series are longer than movies, so the slow progression can let us see this kind of thing

[@robertlee8519]

That would have been cool to watch

[@magitek09]

Reaching the middle of the video and I'm very impressed with how much respect and love he's showing for the whole production without leaving the criticism behind. It's actually rather touching

[@bencressman6110]

He even tried to show compassion to Bezos! Couldn’t do it though 😂😂

[@triplebog]

The tragedy of Halbrand being Sauron is that he is the perfect setup to be a nazgul, perhaps even the witch-king. This man who becomes king over a southern kingdom with a chip on his shoulder who desires power, which would give a perfect reason for him to accept a ring of power. Then his proximity to the main characters would make his slow descent into becoming a ringwraith as he is slowly bent to sauron's will all the more tragic. It would give us as the audience a really interesting perspective as he envies Elendil and Isildur and feels that the fledgling kingdoms of gondor are favored more by the elves than his. Etc etc Could have been really interesting. Now the nazgul are probably just going to be dudes with hoods that show up randomly in season 2

[@Henez89]

It's this right here ^ why I spent a good deal of the first season gaslighting myself that it was going to work out. The whole time I was thinking "they're teasing some stupid twists but there are better ideas at play". But then episode 8 happened and I realised I was deceived 😅

[@MegaLars10]

I prayed that he ended up being the mouth of sauron, there's not a lot of lore behind him so there's all kinds of ways they could go with it

[@emilyrln]

@@Henez89we were all of us deceived 😔

[@russouk]

Trouble is the witchking of angmar is the lead nazgul,the other 8 are just lesser human kings who took the rings without a thought of deceit just greed,sauron was never a wraith nor did he get a ring of power,he didnt need one as he created the one...to rule the others,why would he need one of the 3 he gave the elves 3 to dwarves

[@abadyr_]

In reality, nomads in communities would help each other, not abandon each others just because. That's the one reason why they travel in groups, to support each others.

[@lazndlon7687]

Well there is Genghis khans childhood where he and his family was abandoned when his father died and were left behind

[@lazndlon7687]

I’m agreeing that the actions in the show were stupid given the context but abandoning others when their a burden does happen

[@abadyr_]

@@lazndlon7687 That was a conscious, political move. Because his father was the former chieftain of the tribe, and the new one wanted his potential opposition gone.

[@TAP7a]

This myth is annoying and pernicious. Humans are naturally cooperative. Our capacity to cooperate in exquisite detail across a huge gamut of tasks, not just hunting or self-defence, is one of our defining features and alongside tool use is a key driving force to why it’s us living in cities cleared of all threats rather than wolves or bonobos or octopodes. People claiming otherwise are not only incorrect, but usually trying to make a political cudgel with which to advocate for anti-social policies

[@lazndlon7687]

@@TAP7a If humans are naturally cooperative then why are their so many conflicts. When life is easy everyone works together but if resources become scarce or someone’s power is threatened then humans will naturally look out for themselves and their families

[@daniellins4114]

I’ll be completely honest, I didn’t even know I was supposed to be curious as to who Sauron might be until I actually went online to search something about the actors and then found news about it, teasing the “mystery”

[@atruegentlemortal8251]

Yeah, I didn’t really realize I was supposed to be wondering about that either, until they revealed it dramatically...

[@maximbilenko5179]

Same…

[@missAlice1990]

Omg, finally, someone like me! I never wondered about Sauron's identity because it's not something Tolkien would do. Sure, there were some twists and surprises in his books but he was never playing the "mystery box" guessing game with the reader. The foe was never a "surprise villain", even with Annatar we knew he was Sauron. I'd never expect that game from Tolkien and never expected it here. But of course the writers aren't Tolkien, which is painfully glaringly obvious.

[@sierra750]

omg same! I realized it was a "guessing game" when I went on the subreddit. I just never was expecting that to be the key hook or plot point..? Like I thought it would be SEEING Sauron manipulate people, that's what I actually wanted. Majestic, charismatic guy (he's an angel ffs), pulling people's strings masterfully. Not knockoff Aragorn.

[@melissamarsh2219]

Yeah, I knew from the first the stranger was clearly Gandalf

[@JimBob4233]

Helbrand's situation reminds me of the end of _Pocahontas,_ where they decide that the best cure for a gunshot wound is three months at sea to arrive in 17th Century England

[@blitz8425]

The problem I have with Galadriel changing from "let's do an orc genocide" to "killings bad actually" is 1. We never see her actually go far. Everyone she kills she's completely justified. It's not like she ever has a helpless orc at the end of a sword and just mercilessly butchers it. You can say she gets close with Adar, but she doesn't do it so at the end of the day it was all just fiery speech from her. 2. We never see where or why the switch flips in her head. It just happens in the space of one episode. She completely 180s after millenia of thinking a certain way. The growth isn't shown or earned it just happens.

[@HelloFutureMe]

I think actually seeing her commit to some violence would have been good - even if only in the first scene, instead of killimg the troll, we see hee kill a fleeing/surrendering orc (ie. Someone who deserves mercy). But being trapped in Numenor means we cant do much on that front. ~ Tim

[@blitz8425]

@@HelloFutureMe yeah exactly. Galadriel TELLS us constantly how much she wants to slaughter orcs, but that's never seen. The two times she properly commits to a fight is in one scenario to save her comrades, and the other to save a bunch of villagers. Nothing about it suggests any level of anger or wrath, she's just objectively doing the right thing in those moments. Obviously the show doesn't have access to a lot of expanded materials as you mentioned in your video, but a very important contextual element in the legendarium is that elves do not endorse or engage in the wholesale slaughter of any living things, orcs included. It could have been a very powerful moment for Galadriel to see her juxtaposed against the rest of Elven culture by killing a defenseless orc and seeing the shock and horror from other elves. That would have been "touching the darkness."

[@benjaminjane93]

@@HelloFutureMe I feel what we should've gotten was probably some scene where she cuts down some Orc only for it to writhe on the ground. Clearly incapacitated, but still have this life in it enough to say something like "I know you. The general of the north. The one who abandoned her husband... what was his name?" something enough taunting her to go from "Elegant Warrior who cuts down orcs effectively and unemotionally" to have her become enraged and instead of cutting down the orc she pummels him to the point even her allies are like "That's enough Galadriel!" Make it violent. Make it *UGLY* what she has become.

[@danguillou713]

I see no evidence that this character development was planned as her character arc, or if it was, the writers on the previous episodes weren’t told about it. And she doesn’t remember, beyond some sanctimonious lines to the annoying kid. I think it is more likely that the work-for-hire writer who crafted the Adar-Galadriel dialogue was just aware that Galadriel’s character had a problem. Unlike the showrunners.

[@garygor1960]

Canon is important. Tolkien laid out tens of thousands of years of history that underpin the writing and making of The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit. This disregard for established Canon is an intentional way of pissing on Tolkien's grave. Thank God for people like Nerdrotic, George the Giant Slayer, The Critical D,rinker and the like defending the professor's legacy.

[@SamWickens]

I clicked on this video fully expecting it to be a 4-hour loop of They're Taking the Hobbits to Isengard, since you posted it early on the first of April NZ time.

[@WritingGeekNL]

One could say that April fools jokes are C O M P L I C A T E D.

[@safekhaubi]

Okay, am I going crazy? I was watching this video, got up to take a break, came back not five minutes later and the run time has changed and the bit I was on has disappeared? I swear this video was four hours long and I had one hour left before my loo break??

[@AdventurerJessica]

I just came back to finish watching it too. And same thing. It went from being 4 hours to 2 hours and 33 minutes.

[@TheShanicpower]

@@MooBler350I think he might be re-editing it since there was a youtuber who slipped in that didn’t really belong with the others. He may not have wanted to bring that one unwarranted bad publicity. The message it conveyed was still very important, so I hope it’s back again soon.

[@Rosa-kd2cl]

@@TheShanicpoweragreed. It was literally the crux of this video to call out the misrepresentation of Rings of Power as woke and now it’s gone.

[@beatthegreat7020]

​@@TheShanicpower I had noticed that one of the people mentioned didn't seem to be intended as a criticism, but that it came across as one nonetheless.

[@HelloFutureMe]

Hey everyone - I ended up removing the "wokebros" section of the video because: [1] while my central message around men's mental health and masculinity is vital, and I will continue to talk about men's issues and how men get caught up in this stuff, I want my channel to be a positive place, and I don't feel I lived up to that in the best way I could in that section, and [2] frankly, I have not been dealing with this video mentally very well from the day it dropped. Hope you all understand ~ Tim

[@lillyklein1438]

The thing I can't stand about Theo is the name itself-Tolkien was so careful about his names. The elves and Gondorians have Elvish names, with their specific flavor; the Rohirrim have Old English/Anglo-Saxon; and the hobbits and Breelanders have either nature names or very simple, almost timeless English names. Theo comes from Theophilus, a GREEK name, and it jars so terribly in Middle-earth.

[@gunkulator1]

Maybe Theo is just short for Theoden

[@BigBadWolframio]

I think that they were going for a Rohirrim sounding name (Théoden, Theodred), but they didn't really think it through. It's so jarring since there's no other character name that sounds similar in the show, so it just makes it stand out even more. Or maybe you're right and they weren't even thinking about it.

[@sulphuric_glue4468]

Not necessarily Theophilos, Theo is also a shortened form of Theodoros (Anglicised to Theodore) - but still very much Greek.

[@Zajin13]

It’s even a step deeper. Tolkien, as a linguist, even thought about how men of Rohan and Hobbits share a closer heritage. The whole story is supposed to represent a actual historical account written in a in world language that was then translated into a language we can understand. Frodo actually isn’t named Frodo in the universe, his name is Maura Labingi. The fictional historian translating the document just changed the name into an equivalent we, as English readers, would understand better. So Hobbits got these old Francian placeholder names like Frodo, Bilbo or Peregrin and with that in universe translation are we even able to understand when Theoden mentions that all those Hobbit names sound like very old timey names their ancestors used to have and how they share several similar folk tales in their culture and so on.

[@StarryEyed0590]

I hate that they used Elanor as a Harfoot name for the same reason. Sam naming his daughter Elanor was a fusion of the way his travels had broadened him and connected him to a wider world (since the elanor is a small, star-shaped flower that specifically grows in Lothlorien) with the Hobbit tradition of naming daughters after flowers. It was a unique name that represented an aspect of Sam's character and character growth. Now it's just any old Harfoot/Hobbit name and who knows why they even know what elanor is.

[@stephaniem6482]

The beauty of Game of Thrones is that every character battles with good or evil, and even their "good" might not be good for someone else. The Stranger battling good and evil all season to finally say "I AM GOOD" is the most one-dimensional arc of all time.

[@HelloFutureMe]

Truly, how could the audience possibly have know he was good if he did not explicitly confirm he was good verbally? How would they know?! ~ Tim

[@AndrewFrancisIlyrian]

There is no beauty in Game of Thrones. Everyone is evil or if they are good they die.

[@wasabiknight8125]

@@AndrewFrancisIlyrian Have you read the books or are we exclusively talking about the show?

[@AndrewFrancisIlyrian]

@@wasabiknight8125 both

[@AndrewFrancisIlyrian]

@@wasabiknight8125 I read the books up to Feast for Crows

[@KimballTho]

Tolkien did use "Marvel-style" jokes in his own way. He never quite dipped into outright anachronism (especially not twenty-first century anachronism) but he did sometimes break the poetic gravity with a jab delivered in plain speech. For example, there is a scene where Saruman proclaims, "And here you will stay, Gandalf the Grey, and rest from journeys. For I am Saruman the Wise, Saruman the Ring-maker, Saruman of Many Colours!" and displays his new shimmering robes. Gandalf, unimpressed, replies, "I liked white better."

[@emberleaf2341]

It reminds me of the scene in the Holmes stories where Lestrade (roughly) says, "I have a hard enough time grasping the facts without your ridiculous theories." And Holmes responds, "You're right. You do have a hard time grasping facts."

[@RenoReborn]

Yeah but Groot didn't try to break Gandalf out of jail with a toe so we're not quite anywhere near how obnoxious MCU humour has gotten

[@MrRenanHappy]

I was laugh at that one

[@kosefix]

Talking about similarities between Sherlock holmes and LOTR. This is from the Speckled band: . “I know you, you scoundrel! I have heard of you before. You are Holmes, the meddler.” My friend smiled. “Holmes, the busybody!” His smile broadened. “Holmes, the Scotland Yard Jack-in-office!”

[@mer_acle8101]

That scene is unironically one of my absolute faves in lotr. RoP really failed to realize how hilarious that series was while also having so much heart

[@mrink8822]

Really stretching for that 10-minute mark here tim

[@HelloFutureMe]

😂 only a little

[@baconcatbug]

@@HelloFutureMe Only 4 hours? Short Man Bad!

[@Eemi_Seppala]

@@baconcatbug No no, it's only 2.5 hours.

[@straightline2]

@@baconcatbug Thanks for that comment, because when I began watching it was a 4-hour video, but then it changed to 2.5 hours and I couldn't understand what kind of bug would lead me to that first misconception. I guess what happened was just some cutting then.

[@Ben-rz9cf]

​@@straightline2 Apparently he cut out some rant about "woke bros" but i can't imagine that went on for 2 hours... If it did, god damn.

[@bmabs35]

What's truly baffling about this show is how it looks both expensive AND cheap at the same time given the ungodly amounts of money thrown at it.

[@lukeluke333lukeluke]

100% agree. The armor and customs are bad too awful. Made worse once you compare to the movies...

[@One.Zero.One101]

It looks so cheap because 99% of the time it looks so obvious they're standing in front of a green screen. You can tell the sets are really small and the environment is just a skybox that you can't interact with.

[@cranberryrosebud]

I haven't seen it myself, but the clips always leave me confused about the styling/costuming. Some pieces look well-made and realistic, while others seem cheap. Some of the hairstyling feels like a fantasy show, and some of it a standard modern-day haircut. One thing I do think might lend to a confusing overall visual is the colour-grading/palette - the LOTR trilogy has grainy and grungy darks while the bright colours like the green of the Shire pop off the screen. It makes the entire thing feel fantastical, and adds to the character of each individual place in Middle Earth. Meanwhile, everything in ROP feels like it's been coloured the same, and the style they chose to go with makes the costumes look more costume-y. In an amateur production, I'd find it charming, but with this show's Amazon money, it just feels jarring.

[@bmabs35]

@@cranberryrosebud Celebrimbor's robes for example. He looks like he's wearing curtain drapes. The original character Bronwyn is the only one in her village that seems to have colourful clothes. It's just all over the place.

[@pahvi3]

Fr, all the unstructured polyester robes, the 3D-printed designs, jewellery straight off the shelf... But most importantly, the cultures don't have distinct aesthetics. I was so pissed when everyone kept saying "don't worry, if the writing is bad at least we know the show is gonna look good" AND IT FUCKING DIDN'T

[@OhNanaDear]

Hey! I dont know if you’re gonna be able to read this, but I just want to say, I was a huge fan some five(?) or so years ago. Life happened and I lost track of your channel, even forgot its name (screw adhd) so I couldnt search for it. But as an aspiring writer, I truly appreciated all the tips you gave in your older vids. I’m a professional film writer now. And today I found your channel again. I’m happy you’re still creating content. I’m happy life has been good to you (it seems). Thank you for guiding young me. Lots of love, man!

[@BuddyTheRabbit]

I think the sobering thing to remember with the longest section at the end of this video for young people, is that you mustn't blockade yourself into the ideological echo chamber. As you build your worldview, who you are, and what you believe represents the truth most poignantly. That you remain challeneged by the whetstone of those you tangentally (but not wholly) agree with as a refinery of perspective. An echo chamber should give you anxiety. It certainly does me. Say hello to your future, and God bless. Happy Easter. Thanks, Tim.

[@HelloFutureMe]

Happy Easter! As a note, many of the Catholic commentaries on Rings of Power were really insightful and brought some great perspective - critical from a very different lens. ~ Tim

[@DavidDecero]

"I like half of it half as well as I would like and I like less than half of it as well as I think it deserves." Incredible line. Bilbo would be proud. 👏

[@finndelimatamay1983]

As *it thinks it deserves (I think)

[@Richard_Nickerson]

it* thinks it deserves

[@Richard_Nickerson]

​@@finndelimatamay1983 Accurate

[@USSAnimeNCC-]

I’m proud that someone is criticizing it that is t some culture war warrior or anti woke loser like the critical drinker go watch Jose video on him on how while he and other like him while complaining about agenda their the one pushing one and watch pillar of garbage and the recent target of culture war warrior is the X-men now

[@gamlaingabrielchere1755]

You are incorrect. For Rings of Power to be a disappointment it had to have some promise to begin with it was a corporate money-grab sideshow from go, so, it's about the expected level of garbage.

[@Makkaru112]

Exactly. Lord me Emphasize you’re amazing comment. - Amazon waited until Christopher Tolkien died early in the production of its DumpsterFire, his "demand" was that Amazon could use the Appendices to make the show, but they couldn't change the lore. As soon as Christopher died, Amazon delayed the show for reshoots, fired Tom Shippey who was the lead Tolkien scholar & friend of Tolkien himself; they wanted Jackson on the team. PeterJackson asked for the scripts then they ghosted him. Then later when asked about it he basically told them good luck.. You can blame this garbage show on Simon Tolkien, its stink doesn't reach Christopher. Firstly: they merge events (from thousands of years of history & build up towards several events but puts them all into one moment as if it’s happening in the same few years without time jumps or anything.) Guyladriel the murderous one dimensional girlboss heroine version of Galadriel never met Miriel(one of Aragorn’s ancestors) because, as an elf, she would have been sacrificed to Morgoth by the King's Men. The hobbits and Gandalf never met in the 2nd Age because Gandalf was in Valinor till the 3rd Age. Miriel wasn’t even born yet. She was born 300 years before or after the rings of power era. Also Elendil would never say “forget the past and toss it aside.” That’s the whole thing about the Faithful Númenoreans!!! Faithfulness to what’s good. To their elf friends. To the Valar, to Eru Îlluvatar. The way Galadriel acts like Fëanor when he isn’t seeing straight such as how she threatened bloodshed in the highest court of Númenor! The way she isn’t tall, the way she fights rookies doesn’t make her look strong. Should have had her spar with Elendil who was greater than Miriel in many ways even as far as lineage goes too! Have her spar with those greater Numenoreans and let the rookies laugh at their masters being vested by an elf woman holding back from actually hurting them! Now that’d be cool. (Remember. Their whole mantra was to write the book Tolkien never wrote”. Also watch them fake super fans. And then watch their social media that had nothing Tolkien on it ever. Like…. It’s painfully obvious what’s going on here. Same formula towards other titles. They’re just trying to bank on the brand of which that’s the only reason they did this. Just watch Peter Jackson’s new movie coming out and the War of the Rohirim. You’ll see that Brian Cox is involved In it along with Philipa Boyens as well as Actor for Èowyn named Miranda Otto. Fran Walsh I also believe is Involved as well! Watch George The Giant Slayer’s first video regarding the war of the rohirrim. It was beautiful. And he has a wonderful soul too. When I say first video. I don’t mean very first uploaded video though lol. ) There was also no Adar. No poppy. No Nori. No fake Gandalf who literally didn’t come the way he was supposed to which introduces Círdan. And since they screwed up the themes and lore so badly they have to dig in their heels. And they are also being sued by multiple people and groups and companies actually. The rings were forged last and not first. They were not in his sights or touch nor did he even know about them. And also guyladriel wasn’t a murderous Fëanorean either. But the note of the elven rings. They were made last and without the knowledge of Sauron. His touch never got to them. Made in secret so that whole story is thrown out the window as well. And making them first and having the obvious Sauron figure who wasn’t an elf to just be there when they’re making them and have his eye show up in the forge which wasn’t even the worst of it. The greatest of elven smiths still around which is Celebrimbor doesn’t even know what alloying is. Not to mention all their environmental scandals on top of bad CGI stuff. Full of copy past crowds and plagerisms up the wazoo. It’s also getting sued by several people and groups. I’ll also remind you that they just ran an old sick horse til it died of cardiac arrest and then only had a ten min coffee break to loosely honour this horse. Not to mention Tolkien loved animals in a deep way. They also have been causing environmental damage one of which being King Charles ancient forest to make a set. It’s scandal after scandal. And the fire in studio that took four hours to put out with firemen for yet another example. PS they don’t have the rights to the Silmarillion nor anything much of the second age let alone the first. Only the trilogy books and their appendices…. Remember that they also plagiarized tonnes of films in nontasteful instead of true a homage way… “tempest in me” but when threatening Fëanorean level bloodshed in the court of Numenor was from Cate Blanchett’s Elizabeth role which was done with grace and poise of a veteran actress(which doesn’t even sound like anything those of the great chill house of Finarfin would even act like. Again it’d be best to put Elrond there due to Elros. But ooook let’s make girlboss do everything. Even if it continues to make zero sense. )😍 ​​⁠ fact they downplayed Elendil, Gil-Galad and Finrod is beyond infuriating and not explaining Elwing, Elronds mother beyond just showing her as a swan was pure LOLism. Like. What’s worse is Grandpabimbor…. Let’s not forget good ol’ Guyladriel either. The LOTR version of Star Wars’ Rey! Guyladriel the Female Fëanor without any of his charms and subtleties and wit… just the bloody violent rages…

[@GeoffTrowbridge]

The "mystery box" storytelling is not only a ridiculously overused modern plot device, but fundamentally is runs contrary to _everything_ in Tolkein's writing. Tolkein _never_ used ongoing mysteries to keep his readers engaged. It was quite enough to just get the reader invested in the outcome without all of the misdirection and obfuscation. It is the continuing insistence that mystery must drive the plot that causes RoP to fail. Tolkein simply didn't write that way... ever.

[@One.Zero.One101]

Agreed, not every story needs the Mystery Box. In the first act of Lord of the Rings, we already know what the One Ring is and who made it (Sauron) and why he made it, and that Frodo intends to destroy it, and where he intends to destroy it (Mt. Doom), and how he intends to destroy it (cast it into the fire), these info weren't artificially held back for the BIG REVEAL. In the first act of Back to the Future, we already know what the time machine is (DeLorean) and who made it (Doc Brown) and what makes it work (flux capacitor) and when he came up with it (1955).

[@HelloFutureMe]

Yeah it came across to me as very "modern" storytelling, which did not really fit the source material. That style just was not working for me (or clearly others). ~ Tim

[@JackChurchill101]

The only mystery in TLOTR was 1) who are these black riders hunting Frodo (book 1), and 2) Did Frodo even survive, when the armies march on the Black gate and the Mouth presents his clothes/weapons. (Book 5/6). Both are intended mysteries, designed to keep you asking, but both are awesome.

[@iogssothoth666]

They did the same with Wheel of time. They introduced a "mystery" that was never there in the books and actively prevented them from telling the story for the need to artificially maintain a mystery that never was needed. But that is what happens when you put in charge talentless hacks who actively seek to shit on a source material they hate.

[@Ithirahad]

@@iogssothoth666 More like source material that they like for superficial reasons, and don't understand the stuff under the hood that mechanistically makes it work.

[@DrJay-iy8rv]

4 hr video I’ll never be bored at work again!!!

[@hassassinator8858]

Never be at work again*

[@AgusSkywalker]

I actually didn't see coming that Halbrand was Sauron. But that's not because the show did an amazing job hiding the twist. It's because I never expected Sauron to be a twist. I didn't understand that the show was trying to hide Sauron's identity inside the characters. I just assumed he was out of this story and he would appear as a last minute cliffhanger for the end. Also, their red herrings were pretty stupid. The old man was clearly meant to be Gandalf from the beggining, I didn't think for a single second he was another person. And Adar had a personality completely different to Sauron, being honestly concerned for the orcs well being and displaying none of the power one would expect from a Maiar, even when being openly hostile to the heroes. So for me, the show completely failed with it's intrigue of "who Sauron is". That was never a question in my mind until the exact moment when Halbrand recognises Celebrimbor and I instatly knew he was freaking Sauron. Apparently this question was part of the promotional material for the series, but I don't engage with fan theories much, so I don't care about external material. It was the show's responsibility to generate its own intrigue and it utterly failed.

[@GaltarDude1138]

Wait, are you telling me Amazon spent a billion dollars on a story they don't even have the full rights to? 🤦

[@Desaki65]

I blame RoP for Amazon Prime having commercials now. 😉

[@fisch37]

​@@Desaki65Oh damn that might actually be true

[@Desaki65]

​@@fisch37 it just feels like something that that guy would do...

[@resathe6760]

yep, that's basically it ;D

[@HelloFutureMe]

Yes, but I think the more damning detail is they did have the rights to a lot of amazing stories and did not use them. ~ Tim

[@sunbleachedangel]

This has been said a hundred times but MAN, this whole idea of "outsmarting the viewer" is just so fucking stupid and almost never works

[@HelloFutureMe]

It is such a weird thing to aim for? Like, for me, if viewers figure things out, that is so exciting! ~ Tim

[@sunbleachedangel]

@@HelloFutureMe I should have clarified that it's definitely not a bad thing to aim for, not some writers are way too obsessed with it to a big detriment for their story. A predictable story can still be a very good story

[@chengarqordath]

@@sunbleachedangelI think trying to throw out a clever twist none of the viewers saw coming in something like a mystery is fine. It's a good thing to aim for in that genre. A good twist can recontextualize the entire story in ways that are shocking, but make perfect sense. To bring up a recent example, while the Red Wedding is a shocking moment when you first see it, all the pieces leading up to it are clearly pointed out. We see Robb starting to alienate Northern lords like the Karstarks and Boltons. We're repeatedly told that Walder Frey is an incredibly petty and vindictive man, and it's a bad idea for Robb to snub him. We know Tywin Lannister is a cunning politician who knows how to manipulate people and is utterly ruthless. All the pieces of the Red Wedding are properly laid out well before the event goes down. The problem is that a good shocking reveal needs to be properly set up and foreshadowed, which means some of the audience will guess what's coming. Especially in the internet age where it's so easy for fandoms to get together and exchange notes. A good mystery with a twist ending can't outsmart the audience, because it needs to properly seed in clues and foreshadowing. Even if the clues and foreshadowing are subtle, with a big enough audience someone's going to notice and put it all together. If they then go post what they noticed on social media and other fans see it... The only way to truly get a twist the audience couldn't possibly see coming is if there's no setup or foreshadowing for it. Which is probably going to feel less like a big reveal that ties everything together, and more like a sudden completely random event.

[@Duiker36]

@@sunbleachedangel It's a bad thing to aim for. You should rely on tropes first, and then write the story in a way that works best for your own vision, even if that vision happens to subvert a trope or two. That's how you "outsmart" a viewer: by believing something strongly enough that it can't be denied. Not by trying to outmaneuver millions of people in hundreds of different levels of familiarity and savviness.

[@thecrispymaster]

@chengarqordath I'm still not convinced that the aim with these sorts of twists shouldn't be about outsmarting the audience. The aim is to make sure the POV characters wouldn't see it coming. IMO a twist that is "too obvious" in detective fiction isn't bad because we saw it coming, but because the detective SHOULD have but didn't at it therefore paints him as an idiot. If I see the twist coming but it's still fully reasonable that the characters didn't, IMO that's still potentially a good twist. The reason that these twists can and do still outsmart a portion of the audience is because the audience see the world through the eyes of the POV characters and if they can't see it coming, it's not unrealistic that the audience will miss it too.

[@a.p907]

One thing I remember from the Rings of Power is the lack of respect for Tolkien and his works. "This isn't your grandfather's Tolkien" and "We're updating it for a modern audience" just made me think, "If you're doing all this hard 'work' changing the story, why are you even doing an adaption in the first place? Why not make your own fantasy show?" then it hit me, "then they won't have gotten anywhere near the budget or attention they did."

[@jonnylake3rd]

THIS!!!

[@KajtekBeary]

for me, the worst thing was, they attached story of Luthien's Dance to their version of Galadriel... it's was story inspired by Tolkien and his Wife... such disrespect.

[@Shineinpoverty]

Updatin for modern audience these days sounds like a control shot in the head of the project.

[@meowmachine9147]

They'd also have to create a story and world and characters from scratch and that takes work and they aren't about to put any of that in

[@mer_acle8101]

Has major "This is not your mother's Mean Girls" vibes (that was an actual line in the actual main trailer for Mean Girls 2024)

[@Jockles]

the Tolkein language thing - THANK YOU! I couldn't figure out what was bugging me about some of these scenes but I realise now that this is it. I'm in the middle of an insane LOTR fic right now that is pretty dialogue heavy and I am so desperately conscious of the way that each character speaks, and the more strange and archaic the phrasing I use the more it really feels like Elrond or Gandalf or even Sam is actually talking (within reason, but yeh)

[@YodaOnABender]

As a fan of Tolkien and Halo, the past couple years have been really rough

[@bartandaelus359]

Season 2 of Halo was at least a huge step up. Hopefully now that we have the Flood and we're on the Halo for S3 we can get on with it.

[@smergthedargon8974]

@@bartandaelus359 Maybe by S3 it'll be barely passable!

[@manoz6194]

Just ignore it

[@azraelsblade]

I wanted the reveal to be that Sauron was fractured- that the Stranger was The Power, Halbrand was The Regret, and (maybe) the sword was The Intent, and that by the end of season 1 he pulls himself together and then goes on to be Annatar with season 2 seeing the progress of the rings.

[@taneelbrightblade6622]

I wondered if it would be something like this as well. Though I also thought Halbrand would have been a good nazgûl

[@mercurius0]

Oh that would have been really cool, and nicely tied together all the random threads

[@GonzoTehGreat]

They don't have the rights to Annatar...

[@constcarry]

As equally Tolkien as RoP was

[@azraelsblade]

@@GonzoTehGreat I used it as an example of a name… he has many names

[@kurestor1603]

1:16:00 The dialogue in Skyrim is actually better since it's more justified. In that lore, the Elves just won a war where part of their victory was outlawing worship of one of the gods solely because he was human at one point and actively hunting and arresting people inside of Skyrim who didn't comply.

[@manegirl93416]

Not to mention, early TES Man was enslaved by early Elven society until Alessia rebelled and Pelinal fought for them (though perhaps took it a bit too far), not to mention Ysgramor losing everything to the Snow Elves, so the hatred unfortunately runs DEEP.

[@smergthedargon8974]

@@manegirl93416 Too far? No, no - Pelinal didn't go far enough.

[@HelloFutureMe]

Yes! Like it's bad but the Thalmor are legitimately trying to wipe out their religion so they can destroy the world and ascend. 😅 ~ Tim

[@manegirl93416]

@@HelloFutureMe*gasp* Senpai noticed me!

[@jamesr1371]

"solely because he was human at one point". I mean, I wouldn't love it if my imperial overlords declared that the guy who slaughtered his way through my country was actually a God now

[@PedroFerreira-ne3jv]

Finally, something short and quick for me to watch while eating.

[@ashtingreene8725]

That last quote about had me in tears. This was some heavy labor Tim and i hope you know its much appreciated

[@xKinjax]

Terra Nova, despite it's faults, was such a great premise and full of potential. So sad it got scrapped after only one season. There was definitely something wrong going on there behind the scenes, i mean sure the show had quite a bit of CGI In some episodes but there's no shot it was costing 10 million per episode or whatever number they were floating around as an explanation for cancelling it.

[@matthewmuir8884]

Yeah, it had a lot of potential; it is a shame what happened to it. Yet another on the long list of interesting shows that the fox network cancelled after only one season (with Firefly at the very top of the list).

[@HelloFutureMe]

I loved it so much 😅 i was so attached ~ Tim

[@xKinjax]

@@HelloFutureMe Same!! It may have been cheesy but it had a certain something that i don't really find in shows today anymore. I can't really put it into words, maybe because English isn't my first language. It gave me the same type of feeling i got when watching shows in the 90s as a kid 😁

[@arcahmwinters70]

My god, somebody other than me remembers Terra Nova?

[@ziggystardust1973]

Terra Nova was such a joy, it has been so many years that I thought about it

[@KaiHung-wv3ul]

A long long time ago.... (The Beginnings video) Tim: "I do not know how people do three hour long take downs of Star Wars movies on this site." March 31, 2024 (This video)

[@matthewmuir8884]

I guess he took lessons on how to make long, critical videos.

[@HelloFutureMe]

You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain. Though also long doesnt mean bad. I said that more because i dont enjoy filming and it would take ages 😅 I actually quite like long critiques, just never thought I could do them. ~ Tim

[@MrocnyZbik]

You either leave KZbin with short videos or make 4 hour long essey about Morrowind. When Tim? When will video essey about Morrowind drop?

[@GR20000]

When you realize that successfully catalogging and critiquing a piece of art when you are taking it seriously takes a significant amount of time.

[@KaiHung-wv3ul]

@@HelloFutureMe Thanks for replying!

[@FlowerNerdxoxo]

I loved 95% of this video, though I think the tone of the ‘woke bros’ segment significantly undercut the message of it. I have a lot of respect for this channel and all of the insights it gives, and though I did agree with much of the content of that segment, It felt very sensationalized in the same style of the woke bros being criticized. I also agree that that type of creator is often bigoted with malicious intent, but I think hearing the buzzword ‘woke bros’ being flung so frequently and with such snarky flair really undercut the messaging. I think the intentions were great, it just felt a bit alienating to anyone who it might benefit from it. Also, as a profoundly progressive queer person, I think fully discounting some of their conservative concerns is unproductive for the overall conversation. I’m an outspoken feminist and while the ‘girl boss Galadriel’ criticisms are typically phrased with heavy misogyny, they do resonate with the frustratingly disingenuous portrayal of powerful women that is rampant in big budget media lately - and I think that even though their point is poorly communicated, it is at least 10% more valid than this video conveys. I want to make it clear that I love Tim and this is specific feedback. I have every copy of On Writing and Worldbuilding heavily highlighted, and have watched almost every video for years. It’s just that this style of sensationalized criticism in this context is kind of really offputting to me and I thought voicing my concern might be useful feedback if other people feel that way too!

[@gabun973]

Some time ago I discovered that I gravitate towards videos like this - dissections of the ways various stories can be told, how some of them work and others don’t, their structure, themes etc. I’m in no way knowledgeable in any of that and I’m not a writer (or anyone who could actually use all that information), but I’m still interested in the topic, and therefore really enjoy what you do on this channel for a long time now. In other words, videos like this are a delight (especially as a Tolkien fan), you’re amazing. :> Also, dope wedding ring.

[@tlsgrz6194]

The true mystery of the show, and one that admittedly kept me watching the whole thing, is "Really? That's it?" (The answer is unfortunately "Yes, that's it")

[@genghisgalahad8465]

You mean, the trailers?

[@fisch37]

"Okay surely they can't screw up-- dear lord..."

[@dgalloway107]

It wasn't a disappointment to me, as I was under no impressions they would make anything but trash. Lo and behold i was right.

[@RobearRich]

The screaming scene recreation is chef’s kiss

[@scratwichman]

“Men are allowed to be more kinds of men than ever before.” Thank you.

[@milktank8338]

Except be masculine cause that's toxic apparently

[@winslowpippleton7157]

while drinking HOOCH...

[@quickhands7008]

It is EXTREMELY shocking that the writers and seemingly everyone involved somehow didn’t understand that they created the most terrifying, villainous proto-hobbits imaginable

[@musicobsessive123]

it genuinely concerns me that no one involved stopped and was like "hey.... maybe having the proto-hobbits lack any sense of empathy or compassion isn't a great idea for a lotr ip?"

[@hudsonbakke8836]

The issue with Galadriel isn't necessarily the fact that she's a "warrior-princess." I mean, that does kinda go against her character's lore, but from a point of view just focused on storytelling, it's not a bad decision on its own. The issue is that she's a warrior princess who nobody likes and there's no reason to care about her. Eowyn from LOTR was also a "warrior princess," but her story is way better because it's actually meaningful. We see how Eowyn is held back by society, we see her struggle to cope with not being able to help the people she cares about as they suffer, we see her defiance and determination to do what's right even if it breaks her societal traditions, and we see her actions have dramatic consequences for the story (she helps kill the Witch King, without which Gondor would have lost the battle of Pelennor and Minas Tirith would've fallen). Galadriel, on the other hand, has none of this. She's not held back in any significant way, she has no personal struggles, and her actions are extremely inconsequential. Most of her contributions to the story are just due to her happening to be in the right place at the right time. That's why her character sucks. Amazon clearly wanted to paint the image of a strong, independent woman, but ended up creating the exact opposite - a boring character with no agency and no arc or growth.

[@gunkulator1]

Now that you mention it, you could remove Galadriel from the show entirely and none of the main plot points would change. Stranger/Gandalf still appears. Elrond/Durin/Mithril/Dwarves story still happens. Sauron still finds his way back to Middle Earth. Celembrimdor still makes the three elven rings. Mordor still gets created in the same way.

[@sulphuric_glue4468]

A major part of why Eowyn succeeds where Galadriel does not is that Eowyn also comes to realise that her pursuit of battle and death is not the right course. Though she does achieve great things on this path - slaying the Witch King is a huge deal - she realises that it's hurting her and that it's not a sustainable way to live, that the world does not need any more war. She dedicates herself to life rather than death, becoming a healer. This has sometimes been framed as her "returning to traditional womanhood" or some such waffle but it's really about her choosing (of her own volition) to live by helping others rather than killing others. It shows that there is more to Eowyn beyond being reduced to a tomboyish warrior princess trope, that she is deeply affected by the trauma of war just like everyone else, and the suffering she saw and went through broke any delusions she had that dying in battle is glorious. It's an experience many young men went through in WW1, probably including Tolkien himself.

[@gunkulator1]

@@sulphuric_glue4468 That's a pretty decent analysis. WW1 marked the end of the "glory in battle" ideal that dominated history and storytelling because technology completely changed the nature of warfare. No longer was warfare predominately man vs. man and may the best man prevail. Instead WW1 saw the rise of weapons of mass of destruction on a scale never seen before: artillery, machine guns, gas. Killing was done anonymously, randomly and at a distance. There was nowhere left for the old ideals about warfare to hide. It was finally unmasked as the fiction it always was.

[@HelloFutureMe]

You could definitely feel that she was basically just "allowed" to move on to the next plot beat when it felt convenient-hence all the coincidences. We were meant to empathise with her, but I think most people just found her incredibly frustrating or yeah, boring. ¬ Tim

[@gunkulator1]

@@HelloFutureMe Galadriel is oddly set up for future seasons given what little lore we have from Tolkien about the Second Age. First off, she's married and has been for centuries but we go the whole season with just one throwaway line in there about her husband. And it comes across on screen rather awkwardly which makes it seem like it the line was hastily added. She's also supposed to have a daughter, Celebrían, and there's no mention of her at all. Elrond and Celebrían are supposed to fall in love - a dream storyline for a television series, but again she doesn't even exist yet on the show. She gets a ring for seemingly no reason other than she happened to be standing around in the room when they were being made. It always seemed to me that the writers should have made Celebrían the main character of the story instead of Galadriel. There's almost nothing written about Celebrían so the writers would have had carte blanche. Sure the woke bros would still complain about the whole girlboss thing but at least this time they can't cry about ruining an already established character. Galadriel's stated motivation for coming to and staying in Middle Earth was the wish to establish and rule over her own realm. This clashes with the adventure-Galadriel we get. Focusing on Celebrían undoes this clash but at the same time Celebrían would still know all the same interesting and powerful people that Galadriel also knows precisely because her parents rule such a powerful realm. No need to invent the silly "Commander of the Northern Armies" title which lasts for all of one episode before adventure-Galadriel abandons her troops - or more accurately they abandon her. We could also ditch the revenge plot which never really worked anyway as a good motivation for Galadriel.

[@aperson9847]

Rings of Power felt like a novice imitating a master without understanding the master's choices, and the perfect example of this is the "multiple plotlines that don't start out in the same place and stay mostly disconnected" thing. The writers looked at Lord of the Rings or Game of Thrones, saw sprawling storylines and decided they must to have a similar structure, but they failed to figure out how to make that work. The writers of Rings of Power just...don't understand good writing.

[@artemisia4718]

Nepo babies vs The Professor

[@genghisgalahad8465]

They got Lost before they even started.

[@elimgarak3553]

Honestly, I think it’s way too harsh to call them bad writers. In hindsight, if you listen to all the complaints from the writers strike about the affect undervaluing writers has on their work; than all the writing in Hollywood makes sense. What you’re doing here is comparing the output of a man, with the job security of a tenured professor, working on a project for years to people who got paid sometimes less than a living, given impossible deadlines, who’s opinions were constantly ignored, and if their work wasn’t a commercial success were unlikely to be able to pay their rent. Amazon is known for treating their writers like shit and so their creative output suffered.

[@aperson9847]

@@elimgarak3553 Okay to put it more politely then, they're woefully inexperienced writers, totally not equipped to head a project that was supposed to rival Game of Thrones in its scope. And yeah, I'm sure a lot of their creativity was subject to oversight from Amazon suits, but that doesn't excuse the fact that every part of the show that has to do with writing was poorly done.

[@ILikedGooglePlus]

​@@genghisgalahad8465👏👏👏

[@arianedealswithsocialanxie8170]

I had to make myself forget "Rings of Power" bc it was so disrespectful to the audience's intelligence at every turn. This video felt like a healthy exorcism, but also confirmed my resigned disappointment. All those people, working so passionately. They deserved better.

[@beastwriter3915]

Just like Tolkien, I am Catholic, and sometimes, when I want good reviews that touch on moral/religious themes, I go to DecentFilms, which is a site, not a YT channel, ran by a Catholic deacon. I have not read his review of Rings of Power, since I haven't watched the show myself, but after your video, I skimmed it, and it seems his conclusion for Rings of Power is quite similar to yours. That it was promising, but it ended with a whimper rather than a bang, and that it still has hope for the future. He also acknowledges the possibility that the Orcs could have redemption in this version. "I don’t love it, but I enjoy it. In this sub-sub-creation is a real reflection of Middle-earth that I’m glad for having experienced, and I continue to be open to what the storytellers are trying to do." Might consider watching the show now...

[@HelloFutureMe]

Tolkiem holds a really valuable place in Catholic circles for obvious reasons, and actually, I found Catholic critiques ans responses to the series really amazing. They bring a real nuance from another worldview. ~ Tim

[@Vimalth]

1:57:19 "We had no idea what we were getting into" in a $1 billion show ... yeah, this does explain a lot.

[@WhiteBread221]

The Brandon Sanderson clip is wonderful because I FELT that reaction

[@witcheraficionado]

I grew up on an island and "the sea is always right" is so mind boggling, cause no seafarer would ever say that. The sea is cruel, unpredictable, it can provide bounty and misery, it will be calm one second, while in the next the waves smash your boat against the cliffs. People who are lost at sea die horrendously, for someone to almost disregard it by saying "well the sea is always right" would be quite dismissive and disrespectful and odd for a sea nation.

[@LarthV]

While you are absolutely right in what the sea means to the seafaring, I would say that to their credit you could also understand it in a way that rather means "The sea can do whatever she wants, you can't do anything about it." or "The sea's word (or action) is law"

[@saulgoneman]

Thats precisely what the quote is saying, you can't challenge the sea.

[@ProgMisha]

Man I hated that so much. Mostly because the idea of a national Mantra could be really cool! ThE SeA iS AlWayS RiGhT sounds lame, makes no sense and doesn't for Middle-Earth as we know it. But just workshop this idea a little: "Rise with the tide!" "The Sea Decides!"... And don't have a drill sargeant make his cadets say is. Make someone use it in normal conversation!

[@dragonstormstudios8871]

For what it's worth, Tolkien recognized and agreed with this. The Númenoreans loved and honoured Uinen, the maia of the sea because she could calm her wild husband Osse, who stirred the sea with waves and storms. Insofar that the Guild of Venturers who were responsible for exploring and colonizing Middle Earth were called the Uinendili, that is, Lovers of Uinen.

[@eamonreidy9534]

The fact that the writers probably didn't intend it be interpreted the way you describe, but that you did anyway, is indicative of the bad writing

[@zeyalderson]

I generally put your longer videos on in the background when I'm doing chores, work, or playing games. I think this is the best analyses of the Rings of Power I've seen, and definitely the best analysis of the commentary. Thank you so much for all the hard work you put into everything.

[@lyannastark3839]

The scenes with Galadriel finding clues at just a right moment remind me of latest Star Wars movies.

[@ethanhunstiger4868]

I don’t agree with every thing you have said, but I appreciate the compassion.

[@Final-tt5bo]

Same. I think he is too generous with a lot of things and outright wrong with others but I can appreciate the effort to not just jump on a hate bandwagon and make shallow commentary.

[@gudrun5531]

Yeah, I really liked the time he spent on the hard work all the actors, designers, and team put into the show. I've heard that it's often hard for actors or creators to see how well a movie will turn out during the filming -- they can often seem hit or miss, and then the finished product will be great or not great.

[@bethmarriott9292]

This video was far more worth my time than Rings of Power 😭 felt like they were treating the audience as if they both did and didn't know the source material

[@Benjamin-rq1fi]

Why is the video suddenly only 2.5 hours? I didnt get to finish the second half yet?!

[@HelloFutureMe]

I try to be a positive space, and while masculinity and men's issues are really important, the section did not fit with that ethos as much as I thought. I will talk about these issues in the future as they really do matter. Overall, the section has caused an unhealthy amount of anxiety. ~ Tim

[@Benjamin-rq1fi]

@@HelloFutureMe ok, I guess I can understand that (thanks for the reply btw). It would be awesome if you could find a place to post the unedited version for people that aren't going to get all upset and offended, but guessing that's a tough proposition.

[@Forgefaerie]

@@HelloFutureMe oh fishsticks, I literally just recommended that video to an acquaintance BECAUSE of that section.... seconding request for an unedited version, if possible.

[@Hrudaya_CK]

I guess you can explain away lies and misrepresentation by claiming anxiety.

[@donovan802]

I love high-quality and well-thought out analyses that are roughly an hour or more. Great to listen to while working! Happy Easter Tim! 🐣🐰

[@aftabsk]

I being a really avid Tolkien fan really wanted Halbrand to be the witch king of angmar.....that wouldn't have violated the canon and sauron's mystery could have been left unsolved

[@themsuicjunkies]

There is a high chance he was Numenorean and adept at sorcery.

[@DFTBA221B]

That was my hope too! Would've been such a good storyline and a cool foil to Aragorn's arc.

[@JustWandering]

Same! Or the king from the Paths of the Dead.

[@rae3781]

That's what I was HOPING FOR. Can you imagine a slow burn plot with political intrigue and a slow descent into madness, being corrupted slowly by Sauron and the rings???? That would have been so fucking cool AND YET

[@stefvanroey8191]

Thats what i thought they were building towaeds lol

[@DelightfullyMADD]

Breaking with canon is not something that inherently destroys the work that breaks from it. Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings films broke with canon in a number of ways, but almost always did so with the aim of making the story more coherent for film which is a far different medium than book. Saruman's fate being a huge example of a massive change to canon that nonetheless wrapped up that character's story in a satisfying way (and was cut from theatrical release for some bizarre reason...). This is an example of breaking canon in order to fit the medium. That being said there were a few breaks with canon that ultimately were detrimental, but most of them were minor and overall didn't detract noticeably from the story. Rings of Power not only breaks canon as well in a myriad of ways, but does so in ways that don't even make the story work in the medium it's converted to. The order in which the rings were forged, for example, is incredibly important even if it seems inconsequential, because once the rings were forged out of order the whole story basically falls apart and you have to have all the characters now act in unbelievably stupid ways just to keep the narrative going. In leaving the 9 rings of men for last (and there being distinctly 'rings for dwarves' and 'rings for men' was never a thing since all the rings were intended for the elves and were only given to dwarves and men when Sauron's original plans failed) the story now has to make Celebrimbor a complete idiot _and_ knowingly complicit in evil. He _KNOWS_ the rings he's making are evil, yet he does it anyways and then only afterwards he tries to prevent Sauron from getting them... when all he had to do was just say "no". Would he be killed? Sure, maybe, but he's an elf and they don't fear death the same way men do because they reform in Valinor when they die and Celebrimbor _knows_ this. Sauron would not have the time or the means to torture him so he can't be fearing that either... so in the end the only reason he forges the 9 rings is simply because "the plot" tells him to. Having Sauron first take the form of Halbrand and then later take the form of Annatar is another unnecessary and damaging change, because the whole point of Annatar in the first place was for Sauron (who hadn't been heard or seen for thousands of years) to infiltrate the elves and earn their trust, which only worked when most of the elves had no reason to doubt him and even fewer reasons to suspect him as being Sauron. By first showing up as Halbrand and acting super sus, then returning as Halbrand and acting super sus then suddenly changing into Annatar... that just makes him even more sus and Celebrimbor would have no reason to trust him at all. Yet he does... because for the plot to even work everyone has to be an idiot. There are so many other changes that make no sense and make the whole plot fall to pieces to list here, but suffice to say that even on an objective level Rings of Power utterly fails as a story and a work of art, because it relies on nonsense in order to cover up incompetence. The RoP writers are like a child that stumbles across their father's pocket watch, take it apart... and then have absolutely no idea how to put it back together again. But then, this coming from a show where a many thousands of year old master smith... doesn't know what an alloy is. The writers of Rings of Power are the kind of sheltered Hollywood aristocrats who likely would look down at tilled farmland from their private jets and marvel about how 'beautiful the works of nature are when mankind isn't involved". Faux pseudointellectual spiritualism

[@emmettbrown3463]

my contribution to this discussion is as follows: "Tolkien comes back and says "it's pronounced Jandalf" then promptly dies again"

[@vigilantez9361]

Maybe it’s supposed to be ”Jaladriel” then, too!

[@rangerstedfast]

Jondor

[@samuelleask1132]

😂😂😂

[@rangerstedfast]

Jimli son of Jloin

[@ms-abominable]

@@rangerstedfast my tongue tripped down the stairs trying to pronounce that

[@gussygamingprofessional6433]

I’m sorry but calling it a disappointment is a bit too generous

[@stormwarrior5362]

He do be polite like that.

[@flockinify]

It's not a disappointment, anyone who didn't expect it to suck is a fool.

[@AndrewFrancisIlyrian]

He is trying to dissacociate from the anti woke crowd that despises it.

[@gussygamingprofessional6433]

@@stormwarrior5362 I’m sorry I didn’t mean to sound rude

[@AndrewFrancisIlyrian]

@@gussygamingprofessional6433 why not?

[@Skeletongentleman7808]

Something you touched upon in the last segment of the video but never focused on was the controversial cast choices, specially the “diverse” actors. The only issue I ever saw was the missed opportunity in world building. Middle Earth, to my understanding, is our world. It’s essentially where Europe is in a broad sense and therefore it stands to reason, and backed up with Tolkien’s own writing such as the “Easterlings” for instance, that both Africa and Asia do exist in the world though of course they wouldn’t have their modern names. The writers could’ve enhanced the world by delving into the diverse cast’s backgrounds and what brought them to Middle Earth, for instance Princess Disa could’ve married Durin as apart of a political marriage that forged an alliance between their two dwarven houses. They could’ve explained how one of the 7 dwarf families migrated south and developed darker pigmentation due to building into the mountains of Africa while still maintaining a strong presence on the surface. She could’ve mentioned the troubles her people faced in that region of the world and what mythical creatures are there. I wished they’d used the casting choices to enhance the world so that we the audience are left wondering what’s not shown on screen and imagining the vast world that’s beyond the narrative of the story.

[@AmirDarkOne]

if you consider rings of power cannon, it means by the time of hobbit ,people of middle-earth killed ot exiled every non white person in a genocide.

[@henrynewton8267]

If they had a cool way to make old stranger one of the blue istari who was impactful but for some reason his story is lost and forgotten would have been dope. Problem was they rewrote a bunch of lore instead of filling in gaps. Thats where the magic could have been. Not changing integral plot points for no reason. Surely they could've hired someone to help fill it out with that budget. Plenty of Tolkien scholars who wudv came getting offered that role.

[@marieroberts5664]

They had a Tolkien scholar... don't remember who...he left/they got rid of him over creative differences.

[@henrynewton8267]

@@marieroberts5664 I shudv checked, my bad. But you see why he left 😂 Honestly I still kindv enjoy it cos I just love middle earth and the cinematography isn't bad but as a straight up Tolkien nerd so many decisions hurt my soul that were completely unnecessary and didn't contribute to the lore in any way. Adar was amazing but. There was some gold

[@philipphammer3474]

They had Tom Shippey, argueably one of the most knowledgeable people in all sorts Tolkien. He was fired because he allegedly broke some nda (he stated what amazon had the rights to, which they did themselves afterwards). It id rumored that it was actually about differences with what they did to the lore and it certainly gives the impression that he was hired only to appease the fanbase in the first place. A major downside of RoP was without a doubt also the atrocious marketing, with the soap opera thing that Tim showed in the video, the superfans, and so on. All of that also foing wonders in bringing a bad narrative upon themselves (the like that is discussed in the latter part of this video). It actually was so bad that one might wonder to which extend the narratives of certain people are made up, and which grain of truth they might have hit.

[@Themiddleborne]

The issue with the lines that aren’t bad is that most times they don’t make sense in context, or they’re also blatant lore contradictions like the scene with Durin and Durin. The showrunners just made up dwarven lore that is at complete odds with the dwarven lore Tolkien wrote and IS LITERALLY IN THE APPENDICES THEY HAVE THE RIGHTS TO. It’s a good scene if it wasn’t in a Tolkien adaptation. And it also comes after a random scene where Durin, despite no prior evidence, goes off on his dad. Again, it’s a great scene with him and Elrond, but it arrives out of nowhere and the reasoning to not delve for Mithril is stupid, actually contrived, and at odds with the lore in the books they have access to

[@Richard_Nickerson]

You definitely get to my main issue: most people defend the show saying "they don't have rights to The Silmarillion", but they literally told us which Appendices they were referencing & then they just didn't actually do it at all. This stuff IS in the Appendices & they DO have the rights to it.

[@Themiddleborne]

@@Richard_Nickerson it’s absolutely baffling. There was plenty there to come up with a show that was faithful to the 2nd Age. It seems clear to me that they just didn’t want to make a Tolkien show but their own fantasy and had to do it under the pretense of Tolkien. That after hearing the interview clips from the showrunners in this video they just have no idea how to do what they claim to be doing.

[@Richard_Nickerson]

@@Themiddleborne Yes, they clearly wrote a Fantasy show, but couldn't sell it, so they turned it into a "LotR" show, and that got it done.

[@qugo8158]

​@@Themiddleborne Exactly! What's so weird is I've seen multiple comments since the release of rings of powers saying it was good they went away from Tolkien and made their own....I read those and was just baffled by how they could say such idiotic statements. The whole point is to adapt Tolkien, not make some other fantasy.

[@HelloFutureMe]

The blatant and many needless lore contradictions did baffle me. So much was invented when they did not need to. ~ Tim

[@CultistO]

I know you're unlikely to see this, but it's important for me to say: You are one of the people who helped me survive the hard time in my life. The compassionate way you speak about men's issues, loneliness and mental health, like you touched on again in this video, is extremely important. Thank you.

[@whiteraven9544]

I've never watched LoTR, I don't even know what Rings of Power is but I will absolutely watch this 4 hour video, probably twice

[@whispererindarkness]

When I saw the thumbnail - I'll admit - I was thinking this might be a case of beating a dead horse. I should never have doubted you. Especially love the second half; that's exactly what I wished someone would have talked about in relation to this show. Amazing work yet again, Tim.

[@jamesbenz3228]

Really quite an incredible piece of content. Thank you for putting this together.

[@danielsantiagourtado3430]

4 HOURS OF FUTURE ME?! YES PLEASE 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@runningcommentary2125]

"Do you believe it?" "Eh." "Do you believe it?" "Eh." (But the music swells to drown out the lacklustre response.)

[@elimgarak3553]

Yep!! that’s why The treatment and compensation of background actors was front and centre in the sag-aftra strike. It can kill whole plot lines and emotional beats.

[@codeofclaw]

After watching Rings of Power I never went back to it. At first I thought it was just the length that was stopping me from rewatching but then I realized the extended editions are 3 hours longer and I’d watched those through at least 3 times since Rings of Power came out.

[@riggs6358]

That sub-furies clip sent me reeling backwards through time in a way I didn't know was possible, its like I could reach out and touch the nostalgia

[@jacoporegini8841]

One of my favourite lines in this travesty of a show is: "Humility has saved entire kingdoms. The proud have led all but to ruin." So many good single lines surrounded by countless bad ones.

[@leopercara3477]

It's also a pretty ironic one, isn't it?

[@HelloFutureMe]

It's a good line! Just sadly lost in the context that, at this point, Galadriel is being a hypocrite in saying it, so it rings a little hollow sadly. Would have been nice if they used it post-Adar scene. ~ Tim

[@jacoporegini8841]

@@HelloFutureMe Indeed. It would've been a lot more effettive if not delivered after the whole "There is a tempest in me!" Fiasco.

[@filipvadas7602]

Ironic considering the show is a vanity project in of itself.

[@Mica_T]

Ain't this an appropriate quote.

[@brunopereira6789]

This video's ending almost made me cry. I too strive to the more like Aragorn, and I too almost struggled with my place and my worth as a man when I was younger.

[@sunbleachedangel]

The best defense of that non existent Tolkien quote I've heard is "well you can't prove he DIDN'T say it", and I was like "yeah buddy, good one, really outsmarted me here"

[@Tar-Elenion]

It was in Appendix BS...

[@smergthedargon8974]

"You can't prove I didn't say that." -JRR Tolkien

[@joshuasmith147]

I have not got far enough in this video to know whether Tim acknowledges that three rings are cast from the same metal but one is silver and the other two are gold, but I hope he does. For some reason that little detail just sums up the whole sorry show for me.

[@HelloFutureMe]

I dont get to mention it but you are right! ~ Tim

[@joshuasmith147]

@@HelloFutureMe haha well you made 4 hours of other excellent points. Always exciting to see a long form vid from you!

[@thiffio9134]

I've never fully engaged in a media critic's work as a viewer. I especially struggle with understanding what's being discussed, but I'm always intrigued. I would love to be educated in writing and production because learning excites me.

[@morgenstern2603]

If you want to learn about writing, I'd suggest you go to the channel of Brandon Sanderson. There is a Playlist titled "2020 Creative Writing Lectures at BYU", where you will find lectures he held. That's a good start, and it doesn't cost anything.

[@TheGreatUnwashedThing]

I think the fundamental weakness of the Rings of Power, from which all its other problems stem, is that its writers don''t know how to make choices. Which we've got an enormous amount of stuff crammed in, much of which clearly started as fan service (the Balrog, the Harfoots) and then went in search of justification. (I know that all established franchises to a lesser or greater extent do this but there is a skill in doing this in a way that doesn't compromise the actual story.) Its clear that the writers wanted to ape Game of Thrones with its multiple intertwined storylines but they missed the fact that Game of Thrones doesn't really have multiple storylines... especially not in the way that Rings of Power does and definitely not in that way in book 1. I mean look at the viewpoints characters of the original Game of Thrones - Ned, Jon, Catelyn, Tyrion, Sansa, Arya, Bran, and Dany - all but one of them starts their plotline in Winterfell and are incited by the events that happen during King Robert's visit. The sole exception is Dany but there's no ambiguity about why Dany's storyline exists - you can clearly see that she is in someway going to become involved in the main conflict even if it is deferred for the time being. I just can't see why the Harfoots are in this story at all other than they are Hobbits and Middle Earth must have Hobbits. And to be honest, the conflict in the Southlands is barely better - we all know that this is going to end (if it isn't cancelled) in the War of the Last Alliance but TBH I don't think the story told in this season, other than about the rings themselves, actually advances the plot. The other problem at least in my opinion is that it misses the actually interesting question of the Second Age narrative - not who Sauron is but why do people follow him, especially people like the Numenoreans and even more especially the Numeroean Nazgul, who essentially have everything they could possibly want.

[@grantpotter8289]

The first time I watched the show, it never even crossed my mind that there was a mystery about who Sauron was

[@ioanamoiceanu9533]

The main issue for me is the fact that they tried making it a mistery box to begin with. Tolkien's stories are pretty straight forward imo and it works. Like imagine adapting Fellowship and spending 3/4 of the movie trying to figure out what Bilbo's ring is. You can reimagine and tell that story, sure, but why would you do that when the real story starts after that?

[@no_i_dont_want_no_slugs]

the fact that there are commentators out there expecting tolkien's elvish men to somehow NOT be beautiful and elegant just baffles my mind. and the fact that they can't comprehend a man behind beautiful, elegant, sensitive AND a strong, powerful leader is just a shame to their own world, as they make it thinner and more reduced than it could be.

[@LarthV]

You are very right, but that all hangs on the definition of manliness they use. It is a very specific definition - that of twentieth century working class US, and possibly British, men. It does not work in quite literally any other place or time - just think of a binge drinking, spread out sitting knight templar, samurai, heck, even a 1930ies German Nazi - they all would be disgusted by the image they have in mind, and no one can tell me that the SS was not obsessed with masculinity - they are the epitomy of toxic masculinity.

[@blackaua]

@@LarthV Why do you associate masculinity with the SS?

[@unnamedenemy9]

@@blackaua that is very clearly not what he did -- he said that the SS were obsessed with masculinity, and yet their version of masculinity wouldn't match what we consider masculine now.

[@LarthV]

@@blackaua Yeah - note I wrote about "toxic" masculinity. And while thy definitely htought of themselves as being very manly, they were also extremely toxic to both themselves and to others, killing people left and right while at the same time throwing intoctrinated teenagers into war without blinking an eye.

[@samwallaceart288]

To me my issue is just that the Elves in this show don't look Elven enough. Celebrimbor looks like a Hobbit not an Elf.

[@Argacyan]

1:14:00 Having been to places with nomadic traditions I can also say for a fact that nomads don't abandon people just like that.

[@TheEliza422]

Plus, many ancient burials have shown back to the Neanderthals that injured and disabled people were cared for, not abandoned.

[@gwenjackson8583]

I think it could have been an interesting storyline…if it was made clear that someone HAD to be left behind or the rest would die…impending weather, not enough carts to pull an injured person, ANYTHING that made sense to make it a moral conundrum. But the circumstances clearly showed that Nori’s family could have been helped…there was plenty of manpower and extra people not pulling carts. And it made no sense to leave behind young, almost child-bearing age girls to die because their dad broke his foot. I guess what I’m trying to say is that they actually had a kernel of a good story there and completely ruined it. Which is true for a lot of this show….so many potentially good storylines wasted. ETA: grammar and redundancy

[@CassianStone]

Will you stop spoiling Bladerunner 2049, already? I am going to watch it any day now, I PROMISE!

[@elousie1187]

I love that it's exactly 4 hours

[@alejocuruchet76]

It's beautifull

[@miyukinaara7306]

Wait was this critique 4hrs long at one point? Its only 2.5hrs now😢 I also have no context being 6mo late to this thread😅

[@oomflem]

The hairstyles alone render this show utterly unforgivable to me. They made Finrod look like Duke Nukem and Celebrimbor look like Mitt Romney.

[@fishymacaroon6]

It was rough. Like there's not necessarily a lore requirement for all elves to have long hair, but Jackson's trilogy did it very well, and changing it doesn't accomplish anything.

[@LarthV]

@@fishymacaroon6 Certainly. Though to be fair, there is also short hair and short hair. And this is a very abysmal incarnation...

[@RonetaG]

Right? Sure, it sounds like a very shallow critique of a very minor flaw, but even if the rest of the show was excellent, that little thing would still bother me, because the way they chose to portray the elves visually made them luck too human - too chubby, like Gil-Galad, too old, like Celebrimbor, too short-haired, like many of them

[@fishymacaroon6]

@RonetaG casting an old Celebrimbor alongside a very young Galadrial when they should be, at least for elves, basically the same age was a wild choice. Gil Galad should be younger than both of them and is supposed to be one of the greatest warriors of the elves. Why they felt he should be a tubby middle-aged politician is beyond me.

[@RonetaG]

@fishymacaroon6 exactly, Celebrimbor is actually younger than Galadriel, and even had a crush on her, if i remember correctly. Now imagine these two flirting... When I've heard about this show being made, i really wanted to see the likes of Celebrimbor and Gil-Galad on screen, in all their eterial beauty and glory. And we've got a senile master craftsman and a middle aged chonk. Even if rop was actually well written and in all other aspects a perfect adaptation, that would still bother me

[@jchandler]

“I like half of it half as well as I would like and I like less than half of it half as well as it thinks it deserves” PERFECTLY sums up my thoughts on this, ty tim 🙌🏻😂