Rings of Power Showrunner Interview: J.D. Payne & Patrick McKay

[@countercanter86]

Sooo validating to hear them talk about the importance of fathers and sons (remember Denethor’s complex relationships with his sons?) and that the mirror of Galadriel inspired this show. I remember feeling that there had to be a story behind Galadriel’s response to being offered the one ring. Most beings in this world were no longer aware the one ring existed - but she had clearly been thinking about it. Why? I love that this is being explored. Love that they aren’t shy about exploring the complex topics.

[@LeGadabout]

I just love hearing them talk about RoP. Their enthusiasm is so delightful. And it's great to hear them get into meatier topics thanks to Corey and Maggie.

[@emilygreisz]

Being raised on fairytales where good always triumphs over evil makes today so much harder, so thanks for the reminder of why these stories are important. Some of us might feel like we're about to be at The Battle of the Black Gate for the a long long time.... but still, these stories have ingrained hope for a better future so deeply in us. "No half-heartedness and no worldly fear must turn us aside from following the light unflinchingly."

[@WingXCustom]

(⁠╯⁠ರ⁠ ⁠~⁠ ⁠ರ⁠)⁠╯⁠︵⁠ ⁠┻⁠━⁠┻ Don't remind me of this week! I want to forget and live in ignorant bliss ಥ⁠‿⁠ಥ

[@rosskane961]

You had me at “I want to begin with the question of moral dilemmas.”

[@ThreeBlindMiceFilms]

I was looking forward to Pt. 2 of Episode 8 Analysis, but holy moly, this is perfect 😱 Hope to see more interviews with people involved with the show (or involved in any adaptation when you folks start up on Other Hands&Minds)

[@zuzanna7141]

thank you for conducting the interview :D

[@AncalagonGo]

What a great discussion! I really enjoyed listening to J.D. and Patrick, and kudos to Corey and Maggie for asking insightful questions and sharing valuable perspectives. Well done

[@BlueaxeReproductions]

This was the best interview with these two I have yet seen; your excellent questions and erudite observations have drawn out good responses from these two compared to any other interviewer.

[@michaelwilliams949]

This felt like a twenty minute interview. Damn! I would love to know their thought more on how they read Tolkien's text and what drove them to particular choices just to see their thought development. Otherwise, amazing guys! Gotta say though, love how Patrick is the chilled out nerdy dad and Payne is the jumpy nerdy kid 😂😂😂 they're the best!

[@the_real_littlepinkhousefly]

LOVED this. Thank you!

[@vickysch8872]

This is one of the most lovely and best interview I have seen so far with the ROP showrunners, great Rings of Realms, thank you very much, you are wonderful!

[@NaritaZaraki]

Another great recent interview was on the podcast "House of R". Highly recommend, both for the interview and for the episodes discussions, if you aren't already familiar with them ^_^

[@vickysch8872]

@NaritaZaraki yes very nice too

[@billymeyer99]

Thank you for this bright spot in the midst of the triumph of Morgoth

[@IlluminaudioOG]

Thanks for this. Its been a rough day. ❤

[@jamesgraham1772]

Hang in there. The Shadow is only a small and passing thing.

[@laurenmuser7551]

@@jamesgraham1772been literally reciting g this like a prayer all day today. This as well as Gandalf’s counsel: “l wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”❤

[@leahmccreery4823]

I thought the same thing this morning (I actually have a plaque of that quote on my wall); but then I considered what Tolkien himself lived through during the World Wars, and I got some perspective, this (so far) is not that bad, not insurmountable. We can get through this. Hold to what you know is true, hold to your family and friends, do what's right.

[@sdl1ishappy]

Thank you! This show is going to be my go to comfort for the next few years, and I appreciate its shining a light on not only evil but how you can accidentally do evil in the name of good. It's a lesson we all need.

[@SarahFraps]

Thank you, thank you, thank you for asking amazing, interesting questions. That hour flew by. And I still have so many more questions! I hope you are able to get them back on soon.

[@fellmere]

So you've had Ben Walker, and now Payne & McKay...Rob Aramayo is next, right? Right? Surely! (And of course the Charlies would also be delightful.)

[@hopewilliard6781]

An interview with Rob Aramayo on this channel would be so good!

[@lukastunis1229]

A ray of light in dark times.

[@siminalunguwriter]

Such a great interview! I could listen to you four talk Tolkien all day :)

[@laurenmuser7551]

Just typed in the KZbin search bar “interviews rings of power” to see if there was anything new that I could watch to distract from the devastation I feel today after… recent events here in America (not to mention watching it unfold as a woman living in Florida) 😢…….. This video was the first to pop up in my search and I may or may not yelled out “AND THE SUN YET SHINES!” ❤

[@ringbearer1420]

Jeff Bezos helped Trump. Facts.

[@andreguia1731]

I am happy. maybe we'll have four years of not throwing missiles at other countries, as we did on his first mandate

[@logirex]

@@andreguia1731 The number of U.S. missile strikes has seen a significant reduction under President Biden compared to President Trump. Trump’s administration launched around 16,000 strikes in conflict zones such as Iraq, Syria, and Yemen, including increased drone strikes in areas like Somalia. During Trump's term, civilian casualties rose as well, with over 13,000 alleged civilian deaths in Iraq and Syria alone 🤦‍♂

[@lberghaus]

@@andreguia1731instead we will have 4 years of human rights violations at home.

[@kermitdfrog1511]

Lol this made me giggle

[@theheartieobserver]

"We're going to take him on a journey. We're going to break him." 😭💔 I'm not ready for this 😭

[@funkyoupop]

THIS THOUGHT IS BREAKING ME 😭

[@faeriechylde]

I know they won’t see this, but I want to beg them: PLEASE DON’T. Jackson’s Elrond is NOT book Elrond- Tolkien’s Elrond has allowed his sufferings to make him wiser more empathetic. He is kind, welcoming, hospitable, generous. He adopts Aragorn and helps him fulfill his destiny, even though he knows what it will cost him. Jackson’s Elrond is selfish and bitter, and never seems to be willing to help anyone until he is forced to. I am very frustrated that they are determined to turn him into Jackson’s Elrond rather than Tolkien’s.

[@Freshwater121]

⁠@@faeriechyldeYou’re misunderstanding them. By “break him,” they are talking about putting him through all that suffering you’re referring to. But by the end of it all, he will have grown more empathetic and wise.

[@faeriechylde]

@@Freshwater121 I hope that is what they mean. But they say this *after* JD says, they want to see how he gets to “jaded” “men are weak” Elrond. So he is at least thinking in that direction. 😕 I was thankful that Patrick jumped in and said “In the movie! In the movie!” To remind us he’s aware that book Elrond never says that. 😆 But still!

[@markroberts6322]

Bravo! By far THE MOST engaging, energy-filled, passionate, insightful interview I have ever seen or heard about RoP and perhaps even all of Tolkien, for that matter. THANK YOU Corey, Maggie, J.D. and Patrick. I could listen to you discuss these topics for HOURS! Keep up the great filmmaking and in-depth analyses.

[@ejd5261]

This interview touched on one of the things I like best about the show: it has stayed true to Tolkien’s themes of fellowship (only possible through the “subversiveness of moderatism” they mentioned), faith, and means-justifies-the-ends thinking despite these extremist, tribal, ends-justifies-the-means times of moral decline we’re currently living through. Anyone can watch it coming from any particular worldview, experience, or political stance and be faced with the same confronting message: EVERYONE can fall to evil, no matter how righteous they might feel (in fact when you FEEL righteous that means you’re self-righteous), so standing together and forgiving each other and ourselves is literally all that we have to ward off evil. It’s not a sappy and childish message. Every day in the U.S. you hear people justifying demonizing their enemies and clinging to their brittle self-righteousness. So the message of Tolkien that this show is bringing forth is so needed right now, and much appreciated from this viewer. The scene that was most moving to me was seeing Miriel truly step into her faith before the sea monster. I think Tolkien would have been proud of that scene.

[@sagetmaster4]

Awesome interview

[@diegorivec]

This guys are amazing: sweet, passionate, thoughtful and always excited. And evenmore , it feels like the really understand Tolkien's depth. I'll never agree with the critics and extreme nitpicking, the show is beautiful, fun, and a nuanced loving letter to the story. Thanks for the great interview and content R&R!! :)

[@AleksiJoensuu]

Re: Choice: When The Stranger says "I was meant to help Nori", I kind of wished Tom Bombadil would have acknowledged his choice, such as by saying "No, you chose to." or something similar. Although I guess it's not mutually exclusive. Bubbling under: I notice I'm having a hard time saying "Gandalf". I thought I'd come to terms with their choice but I guess I haven't.

[@sirreginald2013]

Awesome video guys! Could listen to you four talk about this lovely show for days. Or how about 6 more years? 😊

[@Roanokebrothers]

I wonder how many of us today in the USA have been holding onto to Tolkien for hope in the midst of what looks like Sauron’s return. What’s been your go to quote to hold back the despair? I’ve had friends who aren’t big Tolkien fans send me Gandalf’s “all we have to decide” talk with Frodo. I’m partial to Sam’s star and the reminder that the Shadow is a small and passing thing. And of course Gandalf telling us to uproot the evil in the fields we know. Any others?

[@annafdd]

A friend tried “Aurë entuluva!” To which another said, you do remember what happened to Hurin right after that, right? I am currently re-reading The Two Towers, and I am reading the pages where Frodo, Sam and Gollum climb the stairs of Cirith Ungol. It appears to me that the vale of Minas Morgul is a more welcoming place than the real world right now. And I’m not even American.

[@Roanokebrothers]

@@annafdd I also got the Hurin quote from someone, but in the context of our being perhaps in Gandalf's Long Defeat. Take good care.

[@darkisthelight77]

I really hope the showrunners are not being truly serious when talking about Elrond becoming the 'men are weak' Elrond from the movies, because this overly stern and jaded Elrond has no basis in the books, and I've very much enjoyed Robert Aramayo's absolutely mesmerizing performance. He has become Elrond to me, to many others. Elrond has suffered greatly, but he has endured, and he will remain kind as summer. I do not wish to see him emulate Hugo Weaving's Elrond. The movies are in the past. They now have the chance to do their own thing. Elrond is one of the most beautiful and compelling characters in the show.

[@faeriechylde]

Yes. This!!! I doubt they read these comments, but if there’s any way to get through to them, I want to say: that is not Tolkien’s Elrond. Tolkien’s Elrond has learned that true hope and beauty lies through and beyond the suffering and keeps being brave, generous, and kind through it all.

[@darkisthelight77]

@@faeriechylde I wholeheartedly agree with you. The show should not be seen as a direct prequel to the movies; it's their own spin, their own adaptation of the books. Their Elrond has been perfect so far, or well, close to perfection. It was established in the first episode that Elrond already has suffered enough, and he will suffer even more, but he will remain true to himself, he will endure. We don't need PJ's Elrond showing up again to hate on both men and Dwarves. It'd be a real disservice to his character.

[@Chuck-kc3pg]

Yes, RoP’s Elrond is so much better than PJ’s. Please don’t turn him into that bitter cynic.

[@davidbeer5015]

My hope is that they aren’t going to go that route (after all, Durin *did* come). That said, I wonder if an angle could be that if the show does go the book route, one can see how the things that he is going to experience could very well lead him in the movie route as well. A sort of…”these experiences could result in either based on your responses to them.”

[@JDNization]

I mean the very fact that they specifically mentioned that it was movie Elrond should tell you that they understand the difference.

[@Freshwater121]

I was constantly thinking about Man For All Seasons during Elendil’s scenes, so I’m glad to see my comparison was valid.

[@SrLunatik]

Thank you for this interview!! I think Adar should have been an "all-seasons" character. Maybe meeting this tragic end at the finale of the series but after his cause had been fully developed along seasons. Imagine him arguing with Gil-Galad about the treatment of uruks. Imagine uruks interacting in a peaceful way with the heros that we know in the future will become the wisest elves...

[@jacobwilliams6545]

The entire conversation reminds me of the interview with John Howe. Subcreation is about the tool, the actor and the idea. All of them are working together. This is the process of “discovery,” versus the sun creators who try to purport that 100% of everything is planned and meaningful like JKR. Subcreatir Discovery with tools and ideas which each having their own energy is so much more powerful with lasting relevancy. I really applaud the masterful art this entire team has sun created

[@Derelicte08]

Great interview! Thank you

[@mileswright7294]

LOCKED AND LOADED

[@tennkenobi]

The depth of analysis of the episodes from the excellent Dr’s always made me think- they’re either reading too much into this as the creators are not that aware ( consciously) of some of their decisions. @ 10:30 this is proven correct.

[@kud_dukan]

Awesome!

[@danieldunbar2956]

They seem like really good guys

[@Jeroen72]

Pity they are totally incompetent

[@mrs.manrique7411]

I wonder if the Mirrormere and the mirror of Galadriel will have any connection on the show, as they both seem at least subconsciously connected in LoTR.

[@michelottens6083]

I think they used it in season one, fitting with that season's water mirror theme? If I remember correctly the dwarves poorly decided to dig underneath it, to find the mythril, first waking the balrog. And then in this season two it's implied that that destabilized the mountain, at least in part. Or do you mean a more literal connection between the two?

[@Henez89]

I like these guys. Gandalf though; I hate that choice, they can't convince me otherwise, and I'm dreading him becoming more involved in the 2nd age story.

[@WolvesbaneNetwork]

The big reason I've come to terms with Gandalf in the show is I think it will come to mean more to the audience to get to know Gandalf before his big moment with cirdan. I have no doubt that the end of the show gives us cirdan meeting Gandalf and giving him the ring one way or another and while Gandalf should sail in during the third age i understand the desire to have gandalf as a character to give that moment more oomph

[@mrs.manrique7411]

I’m hoping this means that instead of Gandalf giving Galadriel the Elessar, that Glorfindel is able to give her the Elessar in the show. Amazon would have to purchase a ton of rights for that, but I’d love that choice. Gandalf can work in and near the greenwood after his Sea of Rhûn stint.

[@WingXCustom]

You're going to break Elrond? But you already broke him in Season 2! Give the poor guy break already 😆

[@qcrew2938]

Season 2 was way better than 1.... Im starting to really enjoy this show and I think its only going to get better and better as it goes on

[@eduleal]

Their dynamic is quite funny, trying not to step on each other’s toes all the time.

[@ПётрЕфанов-к8ы]

When 3 season will be presented?

[@barsnobs]

Amazing

[@flyingspud]

This is by far the best interview I’ve ever seen

[@darkisthelight77]

It's a little bit curious that J.D. Payne and Patrick McKay did not comment on Elrond's wife Celebrían, and it's also curious that Galadriel is more than just a 'best friend'. I'm not sure where they're going with this and how much they can change, but I'm intrigued.

[@Tar-Elenion]

"emily 💍 celebrían’s defense attorney @moonlarking Talked to Patrick and he’s confirmed that celebrían is not born yet 💔 2:19 PM · Oct 3, 2024"

[@darkisthelight77]

​@@Tar-Elenion She might also never appear if they decide to expand on that kiss. There's the massive timeline compression and the fact that Celeborn is still gone after two seasons. At this point in the story, he wouldn't add much to the narrative. They've chosen to explore the Galadriel/Sauron dynamic, and they've made Galadriel and Elrond very close, and I wouldn't call them brother and sister, not with the level of intimacy they've displayed. I guess we'll find out in season 3.

[@davidbeer5015]

They also didn’t push back when Corey mentioned her fate with the mountain. I think they’re aware of how important she is to him and Aragorn. The “not born yet” could always be altered, to be fair, and they just haven’t written about her yet. But at the same time, without context in show of how Elven adolescence and maturity go, they could have her born later in the show and just not raise the question. They’ve been adamant that the kiss wasn’t meant to be romantic, so they don’t see Elrond and Galadriel in that way.

[@darkisthelight77]

@@davidbeer5015 I think they're being a bit evasive about the kiss. It was leaked weeks before it happened, the only true leak this season, and Morfydd Clark teased it a lot. Obviously, it could stay purely platonic, I'm okay with this, but in a way, I'd rather see them be together, if romance needs to happen, than see the introduction of NPC/checklist characters so late in the game. They have too many storylines happening at the same time, and I don't want them to reduce the screen time of valuable characters like Elendil or Gil-galad to make place for the likes of Celeborn.

[@mtank31]

I think the "more than an best friend" comment is just an acknowledgement that these two have a relationship that has spanned thousands of years, and to reduce it to just that is selling it short. I had the same thought when people were using mother-in-law as the label. Like, we can't really understand the depths of some of these relationships because we have no frame of reference.

[@geir8849]

Rings & realms is the best show for analysing the series. Always constructive, love it. Corey and Maggie❤

[@user-ur4nl6dq2x]

I have been loving RoP, well done gents ❤

[@jameshewitt3747]

Starting off with positive, nice interview and more Tolkien is alwasys fabulous. Bad thing, their/showrunners' interpretation is not my thing.

[@Loth_Wolf]

After the one ring was created the elves took off their rings, correct? During the battle of the Last Alliance, where were the rings?

[@noahunsworth1290]

Yes, the elvish rings were removed and hidden and not used again until after the One Ring was cut from Sauron's finger.

[@naoberlincarrabouxo6552]

I think their Gil-Galad is a lesser high-king. Thanks Morfydd for stop them 🥲

[@nikorex32]

Love the channel, and the work put into it. On this particular interview: I find it very interesting how even when someone has clearly engaged with the subject matter, and is also knowledgeable in the art of storytelling, conveying themes and so on - can still sprinkle so many missed executions of those ideas and visions, like we see in RoP. Unfortunately, the show does end up with strange narrative choices and on-screen execution, many of which were scrutinized here on the channel. For me it is the wild 'who's sauron' thing from season 1, the over emphasis of Galadriel's temperament that overstays its welcome, Gandalf's inclusion instead of other wizards, the execution of the kiss scene, the clumsy Numenor society that produces people afraid elves will steal their jobs, strange flow to action sequences where tension is not maintained correctly and so on. As a viewer, I know much less about how to execute it properly. It is very interesting to see that even people who do know how, end up not doing it as well, in a production of this magnitude that actually needs them to.

[@docboy989]

Nothing but contempt for these hacks

[@docboy989]

Nothing but contempt for these hacks...

[@jameshewitt3747]

No, no, no. The oldest elf, who is thousands of years old, for the most part, asked like a 15 year old human female. Again, just my thoughts.

[@mtank31]

As a disclaimer, I've been enjoying the show quite a lot, especially S2, but to listen to these two (and the other interviewees I've seen), you'd think RoP should be one of the greatest TV shows ever produced. I just can't help but think it doesn't quite translate, which makes me curious as to how much influence the showrunners have on the final product. A good example is Bombadil reusing Gandalf's quote about deserving death. Even in the eventual context of the false choice offered to Gandalf it seems like a bad use of the line (maybe even moreso given that it's not even being used earnestly). Is that a showrunner choice, or are other people writing the dialog? Even if that's the case, how much oversight or approval is there? most once an episode my immersin is broken by a clumsy line, or a bad decision that never gets explained, even with time or depth of analysis. To clarify this point, I don't think all of the callbacks are misplaced. Ie, Sauron referring to the rings as "precious" actually provides extra significance because when the various characters in LoTR are referring to the One Ring as precious, it highlights the suggestive power, becuase it shows that the ring has affected their thoughts to the extent they're using Sauron's own vocabulary to describe it - like he's embodied the rings with his own power of deceit and manipulation. I also see where things that seem illogical on the surface actually make sense on reflection (the Harfoots society for example, which mirrors the "never walk alone/left behind" dichotomy that was essential for the survival of many nomadic cultures). Still, I think the bad choices are too numerous. I do also think that there's blatant inconsistencies in this video as well. How can you say that you try not to "speak to now", but change the motivation for the Numenorians' resentment to "the Elves will steal our jobs"? Especialy when there's already a "timeless" theme attached to the story, which is the issue of death and mortality. Why not just stick with that? I do think many people misunderstand Tolkien's use of the word allegory when they quote him, but still I think that this particular decision was too directly an anachronism designed to relate to the modern political atmosphere. Still, this interview gives me a lot of hope about the future of the series, especially the overall story arc, and I'm looking forward to S3. But... Please, please, please help us to get a better sense of scale and time passing!! Multiple sets, more extras, more geographical establishing shots, travel montages, anything to make the world bigger!

[@waltonsmith7210]

The elves are inmortal. It makes sense as to why human craftsmen of the later era of Numenor would fear being outmatched. Concerns of having your job replaced long predate Trump.

[@whatsthere9538]

Spot on, that misunderstood pity quote broke my brain. It's a CENTRAL theme, this is not something you can misunderstand at this level... The show misses the mark on too many points. For viewers unfamiliar with the world, too much background is referred to but not explained on screen, which leaves them confused. For Tolkien fans, the show makes too many strange (or rather: obviously corporate) decisions without signaling enough care and respect for the material. E.g., Grand Elf should obviously be a blue wizard for numerous reasons, even Olsen agrees, one of the many painful misses. The show is simply poorly executed. Galadriel has the character arc of a rebellious teenager while simultaneously being a seasoned military commander (and mother and wife, you cowards!) old enough to have grown up in Valinor (which we are told repeatedly was heavenly, while the only scene we see actually in Valinor is kids being petty bullies and beating each other up). Arondir forgets he was killed by Adar, Elrond and Galadriel both forget they just fell from a cliff, dwarves forget about the massive demon that just killed their king... The Adar/Sauron plotline was obviously a first draft that upon even cursory reflection makes absolutely no sense. The fact that this storyline survived the writers' room is damning. In Numenor, every major shift in power is inexplicably decided by great beasts (who are, themselves, also confused on occasion??), deferred to absolutely without question by any and all present. Or unspecified accusations without rhyme or reason. No actual politics of any consequence. All this is not helped by painfully forced callbacks which (at least for me, but see for ex. Nerd of the Rings for a similar take) NEVER land, not ONCE, while serving as a consistent reminder how much stronger 'that other product' actually was by comparison. My initial high hopes are all but exhausted. Jackson's movies were far from perfect, but they're in an entirely different league to what we've seen from RoP so far. If this show wants to make any noteworthy mark whatsoever, it needs a serious intervention.

[@mtank31]

@waltonsmith7210 fair point but I find it incredibly difficult to believe the storyline was changed for any other reason than to intentionally invoke the "immigrants will steal our jobs" parallel. At the very least I'm sure everyone involved would have *known that most of the audience would make that connection. An understanding of how an audience interprets the story is one of the main things the cast and crew would have to be aware of.

[@mtank31]

​@@whatsthere9538 It's telling that we seem to agree on this even though it appears we have opposite views on the show as a whole (correct me if I'm wrong but you seem negative about it overall). I wonder how much of these storylines you mention would still be a problem for you if the show was executed a bit better. I actually think Galadriel's characterisation is not too bad. Her arrogance is true to her character from earlier ages from what little we know. Perhaps she could show more wisdom, but I understand she has to be a major character so she needs a character arc. I also think that it's wrong (but understandable) for people to expect movie Galadriel (same case for Elrond). However, I do think there's a lot of little niggles that for some people can spoil the whole character, because some people can look past them and some can't (and I'm not saying either one of those attitudes is the wrong one, it's different personality types and differences in the way in which you want to enjoy Tolkien and/or the show). Likewise the Bombadil quote does a lot to sabotage that whole storyline and almost works against the theme it's trying to establish (means vs ends) because I don't hink you can find double meaning in the phrase, so he's using it under false pretences. It also saps the audience's goodwill, so when the Stranger is revealed as Gandalf, it's much easier to dislike that decision (which I think was highly influenced by the fact that Amazon doesn't have the rights to a lot of the details around the blue wizards, including their names and even the fact they're blue). Again, I don't mind that reveal too much because they can tell the blue wizard story with Gandalf as the replacement character (similar to the movies with Arwen/Glorfindel or Eomer/Erkenbrand), and it can fit in with the timeline as long as he leaves Middle Earth so he can return again in the 3rd age (presumably with similar memory issues next time too, explaining why his 2nd age arrival was not documented). One last thing. The movies were very polished, and I can't think of anything that was poorly executed. That kind of emphasises my point, because there were a number of story changes that I thought really did the story a disservice, but good execution and polish made the movies great in spite of these changes. That is almost the opposite situation I have with RoP where I like the show because I like the overall story in spite of the poor execution in parts. BTW, I'm talking about movie changes like Frodo going to Osgiliath, Aragorn almost dies in Rohan, a complete lack of Dunedain, the army of the dead insta-kills Sauron's forces at Pelennor and probably a few other things that I'm forgetting. 20 years later I can accept these changes as part of the story the film is telling, but I still think they were all changes that made the movies worse-off.

[@whatsthere9538]

@@mtank31 I still haven't forgiven PJ for having the Witch King break Gandalf's staff, completely uncalled for and jarringly inconsistent with Gandalf himself breaking Saruman's staff. Anyway, I can still enjoy RoP but only after a very long workday when all my cogs refuse to do any more spinning. The moment I start thinking about anything it all just falls apart (really, I would invite anyone to think deeply about what Adar's and Sauron's plans actually are, you will end up bawling, either in laughter or despair). The Arondir thing was unforgivably sloppy though, absolutely unacceptable for a production with this budget.

[@alinaholsen2347]

Bring Adar back please, in a spin off, with his past, experience and his uruks !

[@ejd5261]

I’d watch that!

[@davidmarrazzo774]

Ah yes the clown show continues

[@adb9231]

They came over a lot better in this interview. Their Beavis and Butthead act in other channels was childish, annoying and disrespectful. They seem to have learnt a lesson. Good. Reassuring

[@murdocloco6638]

Love seeing this interview! This is adding to an already amazing day! 😎

[@EnterpriseGeek]

the 2 showrunners are annoying as hell but they sure understand their material. thanks for this interview

[@TheDanEdwards]

Always appreciate your positivity and earnestness. Yet here I am left wanting more analysis than fluff, because it seems that Amazon's viewership for Season 2 did not recover from the drop after Season 1's early episodes. Amazon may not see it worth going forward with this series, and that is not due to a lack of financial commitment (a typical problem for network shows) on Amazon's part. Payne and McKay may have meant well but their product just isn't resonating with a large enough audience.

[@Aa_Mm]

very few shows see a rise in or even a replication of viewership numbers as the seasons go on though, especially in the current streaming era. I don't understand why rings of power is being singled out for it? from the reports I've seen, the show has been a success for amazon and is a bezos passion project to boot so there's no reason to fear an early cancellation

[@a_rapidly_deflating_mattress]

Interesting ideas. Dogshit execution. So little of what they claim they were trying to do actually showed up on the screen in a coherent way

[@ejd5261]

Are you sure? Or were your eyes closed to it?

[@a_rapidly_deflating_mattress]

@@ejd5261 I really wanted a $1B LOTR show to be good but it just isn't. The terrible viewership reflects it. House of the Dragon was just as diverse and is crushing ROP even though HBO Max has half the subscribers

[@morrgash]

I just wished that they followed the books rather than change things as they liked such as getting Gandalf who has no business being in the second age into Rhun...

[@Askyl]

You mean the books where it's stated that Gandalf arrived in the 2nd age, or that he arrived during the third age? Or late 2nd age? Tolkien wrote how and why the Istar arrived in many different shapes and forms. The most known one is that Gandalf, Radagast and Saruman arrived in the third age, doesn't mean it's the only one. I was hoping for two blue wizards, because why not? But it being Gandalf isn't really as lore breaking as most people pretend it is, that's just because of lack of knowledge of the said "books" you mention.

[@morrgash]

@@Askyl Lets be honest here, they included Gandalf because he is a well known character just like they included the hobbits for no good reason, the wizards arrived in the third age for a reason and to just ignore it all so they gather more viewers is just a shame because this show has a lot of potential honestly.

[@Askyl]

​@@morrgash They obviously went with Gandalf because it's a well known character. The origin with the hobbits were quite fun, it went downhill with that story during Season 2 but from my rewatch from Season 1 I loved them. The wizards arrived in the third age for a reason in one of Tolkiens versions, you're correct. But they also arrived split in the 2nd age (Blue) and third age (Gandalf, Saruman, Radagast) for a reason aswell. They also ALL arrived in the 2nd age for a reason. In one version Saruman arrived with the Blue in 2nd age and Radagast + Gandalf in the third age. You can decide that you want all wizards arriving in the third age is your canon, doensn't remove all the other versions. As I said, people "hating" their reasoning for the wizard to be Gandalf are just uneducated and proves it ten times over when you ask them questions.

[@Tar-Elenion]

@@Askyl _>"You mean the books where it's stated that Gandalf arrived in the 2nd age""They also ALL arrived in the 2nd age for a reason.""In one version Saruman arrived with the Blue in 2nd age"

[@Askyl]

@@Tar-Elenion I see you have quite a lot more digging into Tolkien to do :) Using google or chatGPT to get yourself some snappy responses doesn't make much sense. You can go with the boring "Lotr and Hobbit is the only cannon and everything else doesn't matter" if you want to, but that's throwing away so much of his work.

[@KevinKhadem]

So nobody gonna mention the Gollum is a stuor comment?

[@BlueaxeReproductions]

In what sense, it's not that remarkable to me?

[@JDNization]

Smeagol is/was Stoor-kind. What's the problem?

[@ПётрЕфанов-к8ы]

How are you going to introduce Celeborn into the story? How are you going to convince that Galadriel Loves Celeborn? Considering that after 2 seasons Galadriel has not mentioned her Husband. I do not believe in Galadriel's love for Celeborn.

[@multi-florum]

We've got a protagonist who spend thousands of years trying to avenge her dead brother, but never bothered searching for her MIA husband. XD

[@Tar-Elenion]

Very amusing with the duo being asked questions relating to the 'deep analysis' of Rings & Realms, and giving answers such as 'we never noticed', 'we never even discussed it', or it being the geography... And then the place where Payne says they are trying to get 'Elrond to the 'Men are weak' point'. And Olsen's total pushback on that (with prompting from McKay) is 'in the movies'. Olsen who, despite speaking against criticizing actors for playing a part as directed, has gone after Weaving personally, not Jackson and co, _Weaving_ for the portrayal of Elrond in the movies. But no challenge, nothing of substance to say for 'back to the books', "It's not our story, you know, it's Tolkien's" Payne and McKay... Very amusing.

[@kasperkenobi4398]

I love how the so-called professors overanalyse a bunch of things, that the showrunners never intended ! 😂😂😂

[@yana_ts1691]

It seems like a lot has been said, but in essence it’s about nothing.

[@thewingedringer]

Having an interview with these two hacks is like trying to reason with a goat.

[@waltonsmith7210]

They're clearly not hacks.

[@Jeroen72]

@@waltonsmith7210 "Gand" "Grand elf" => Gandalf Tell me again these are not incompetent hacks

[@mhdz]

Shame on you

[@waltonsmith7210]

You're ridiculous.