how much do VTubers make?

VTuber Rin Penrose shares her experience being a VTuber! Check out Rin Penrose for more VTuber clips english vtuber memes shitposts #vtuber #vtuberen #anime

[@blahaj.]

Blåhaj

[@PokeThies]

Blåhaj as in a Danish shark? Idk why but reminds me of hvid haj (great white shark) :D (Yes ik it's Swedish and that it's a plush, I've gotten comments over 8 months where people have been telling me, think i get it now xD)

[@Horace124]

Blåhaj

[@chickenparmesanwithspaghet8530]

Blåhaj

[@julia0948]

@@PokeThies idk I’m Swedish and blåhaj means blue shark but it’s probably similar if not the same in Danish

[@smoffidaclown]

@@julia0948 I’m also Swedish :0

[@setsuna200]

This is why vtubers added streamlabs for donations. Thank Neil.

[@SimoneBellomonte]

Who tf is Neil

[@hasanmuttaqin464]

​@@SimoneBellomonteyt manager

[@ReiseLukas]

​@@SimoneBellomonte Susan's Successor

[@FALG31]

Honestly they used the wrong Neil to run KZbin. They should have called Cicierega

[@Cocacolucarasol869]

​@@FALG31Only Neil that I approve

[@DinoJake]

Shoutout to Rin for being real enough to show us all peaks behind the curtain, showing that being a Vtuber isn't all it's cracked up to be.

[@squalleonkeneddyheart4191]

Oh c'mon this is Common Knowledge in the Scene for 2 years now

[@Strwblee]

@@squalleonkeneddyheart4191 no bc I didn’t know that apple takes money away from the streamer-

[@JimmyBoombox]

@@Strwblee So you never heard about the Epic games and Apple lawsuit that happened a few years ago? That was about Epic games challenging Apple's 30% cut they got with every transaction that happened on the App store.

[@Strwblee]

@@JimmyBoombox apparently I dodnt

[@mrk1mchi]

@@Strwblee wait what if you superchat from ur pc🤔

[@jvts8916]

Don't forget demonetization dictated by machine learning that may leave you with 0% despite viewers still getting adbreaks! And it could've gotten even worse if they went with plan to demonetize channels for their comment sections (no, not their own comments. The comments of the viewers).

[@azareii]

I see _no_ issues with that plan.

[@jvts8916]

@@azareii that's not even all of it. Chadtronic had to turn off his comment section for a while because they tested it on his channel without his consent.

[@SunriseAlchemist]

​@@jvts8916 KZbin loves to test their features on random people without telling them, it's the worst. I remember getting one of the new layouts before anyone else I knew and I hated every second of it. Now I've come to accept that KZbin is a terrible platform that gets a worse UI that takes longer to navigate anytime they change something, despite them removing features.

[@TheLastYnzy]

Twitch does something similar. Where you're responsible for what others say in your chat. It's how some people will navigate massive hate bans by spam posting hundreds of horrible messages and then reporting it to Twitch as the streamer inciting hate messages. Atleast the brightside with that is you can try to react to it in real time. Where as with KZbin you may not notice it until the next day depending on how fast your video renders and uploads.

[@smiley6086]

@@azareii people could easily spam slurs and other things into the comments in order to get them demonized. So yeah, there’s lots of problems with it.

[@allmyfriendsarepixels]

This is why I always look for a streamlabs link. I'm not superchatting to flash my name up in a red box in chat I'm just trying to support creators that bring some happiness into my dull crappy life. I knew about the youtube and management cuts but what the actual f* apple takes a cut if you send them from an iphone like... what even? How do they justify that?

[@jtnachos16]

They 'justify' it by claiming that because their backend infrastructure handles part of the payment processing, they, therefore, are entitled to part of the payment they facilitated. It's an UTTER load of crap, and something that if the US government wasn't owned by the corporations, would have been kiboshed LONG ago.

[@MotoroidARFC]

Yes, I would like to know how Apple is involved. This might be specific to her organization.

[@SenecaRapson]

Apple basically takes a cut of any monetary action that happens through apps on Apple devices. It's part of the licensing agreement to publish an app on Apple's app store. They hold that the fee is justified by Apple providing the infrastructure for users because Apple makes the devices, the OS, and the app APIs. Seems backwards that Apple can do that given they're supposedly already charging their device owners for that. Currently Epic Games is in an appeals case to stop Apple from having a monopoly on transaction processing on Apple devices.

[@MotoroidARFC]

@@SenecaRapson thank you.

[@gokbay3057]

@@SenecaRapson Do other phone companies do that or is it just apple being an extra-greedy wannabe megacorp?

[@marshal-d-123]

tbh, even though this sounds bad, it’s still amazing that we have such an opportunity to literally upload and watch millions of videos for free on KZbin. Something easy to forget, but important to remember and appreciate

[@loushendrikyung5546]

A necessary video to stop those poeple thats saw 3 aka supas and said guess ill be a vtuber

[@Youdontknowme-t1f]

Still more than what I make in a month

[@BrahmaDBA]

They still need to pay commission for the art that they use in their work account (thumbnail, their emotes, their social media sites), pay their managers (if they have one), pay their editors, buy streaming equipments, pay their riggers and art creator, pay the game that they are playing, pay for making their own music (if they make music), etc. Being a VTuber is just as much business as being a small business owner. There will always be overhead costs and expenses.

[@SimoneBellomonte]

Are you sure? Isn’t most of this stuff just handled by the agency? Like there’s no way you have to buy the game to stream it.

[@jtnachos16]

@@SimoneBellomonte If you are an agency Vtuber most of that is handled by the agency cut (assuming you are using preapproved assets. If you are using assets you didn't get auth on or that the agency feels is too expensive, you may have to pay out of pocket for it). An indie Vtuber, on the other hand, has to handle all that themselves. The 'ideal' situation for an indie vtuber would likely be to keep a day job to get everything set up ahead of time so they can hit the ground running without overhead worries on assets and licenses. While I've not done a lot of looking into licensing, if you can stand not having the most impressive models and tracking, making your own stuff and using FOSS/permissive software instead of the more expensive 'industry standards' is viable. There is a reason most the Indie vtubers, at least before the popularity boom, started out as PNGtubers and only scaled up after they had a viable audience established.

[@ohsehun6470]

when they grow to a certain size usually they just take fanart

[@cheesegizzler14]

lesson learned: donate irl! i am mailing my money right now 👍

[@kiraakira794]

This is why I always superchat 200$ whenever I wanna give my oshi 100$❤

[@hicalebih8902]

“This person just made more money from one sneeze than I make in an entire month. There is no justice in this world”

[@MiniEnder]

I just realized rin can watch 3d movies without 3d glasses.

[@Zyper_Sebxr]

And she didn't even talk about taxes... But yea this is why a donation link that avoids the services are preferred, those sites will only take a fraction compared to youtube

[@__BlacklotuS__]

in conclusion they still living good lol

[@ThatWildcard]

The house always wins.

[@spiderstriker9284]

1/5 of the original payment is crazy

[@rio7619]

Bro if some one donates a dollar the vtuber gets a cent 😂

[@demigod8522]

KZbin might be justified in taking such a huge cut, especially because of all the people using adblockers and don't use KZbin Premium to compensate for that. 1080p streaming is expensive and the costs scales per viewer. I'm not even completely sure if KZbin uses their own streaming infrastructure

[@Bowswa]

And this is why I will be telling people to NOT use KZbin. Even though I will have it enabled, I will be offering incentives to use other methods that aren't restricted by greedy money hogging corporations

[@9hred837]

the house always wins

[@TheFabulousRBK]

People learned nothing from Machinima and Maker...

[@Emmily_gg]

I have that shark plushy right next to me 😭

[@th3realAsh]

"30% goes to apple" Android users: 🗿

[@Hulkeq2]

STOP!! Taxes! Be sure you know on which amount you get taxed.. Make sure it's on the money you actually get and not on what your agency gets.

[@OnimaruAnji]

They learned their lesson from Mr. Beast, to take a sum total of earnings made, rather than pay the Content Creator themselves by way of how many views a content creator was getting, per ad revenue, etc. See they NEVER expected Mr. Beast to get as many views as he did, they have to pay him MILLIONS a month due to his Contract with them and they FUCKING HATE HIM FOR IT. But because of the contract so long as his video's meet their standard, and Beast has the LAWYERS to argue semantics in Court and they don't wanna do that cause then their 'guidelines' would have to be clearer, and other people could find exploits and loopholes to make them PAY more. So they just suffer for the length of the Contract with Mr. Beast all the while making sure no other content creator gets a deal like he did. *Edit* Also, subscribed, been enjoying hearing your voice in the shorts the last few days. :)

[@sirneko1278]

So what im hearing is donate MORE to ur oshi so they can get the correct amount

[@goodgames6961]

Unless your mister beast

[@kawikamyers7320]

Yet another pin for android supremacy

[@giantsweet1472]

So what you're saying is, I can ensure more of my money goes toward the person I want to donate to if I don't do it from an apple device?

[@frustotamer6231]

Ill buy their products then

[@RoseCadenza]

And this is why I see streamers prefer Twitch.

[@scarecrow4611]

Doesn’t Twitch take even more? Like KZbin takes 30% while Twitch Takes 50% (depending on the contract)

[@RoseCadenza]

@@scarecrow4611 Really? I wasn't aware of this. I've just heard that streamers like Twitch more, but I never really knew why. I don't understand streaming that much.

[@scarecrow4611]

@@RoseCadenza well most people go to Twitch if they want to watch Streams which is why streaming in Twitch is more popular. No really that’s it the only reason ist more people stream there is cause more people are there there’s is no other reason (or they’re entire fanbase is there).

[@RoseCadenza]

@@scarecrow4611 Ohh, okay. I misunderstood things apparently.

[@bestbattle]

WTF. Why is Apple taking a cut from a payment on KZbin?

[@johnnyjohn9300]

Good news!! If you use an android, google, in a sense, takes the 30% instead of apple!! So you still make the same from them, but google makes more!!

[@Woundfree]

Conclusion: use android and don’t be part of an agency

[@elqueso5312]

This is my first and only superchat and I'm only doing it for the irony. Enjoy your $1.25 donation Rin

[@hyramtan1789]

very silly

[@abbenylund]

that definitely says $4.99 on my screen

[@elqueso5312]

@@abbenylund I know. It’s ironic. After Apple, KZbin, and Rin’s agency take their cut, Rin is left with $1.25 of the $5 donation. Did you even watch the video?

[@abbenylund]

​@@elqueso5312 Rude for no reason. I just didn't get that you meant "her part of the donation". Get off your high horse.

[@johndamdan6270]

​@@abbenylundjust delete your comment and we call it even. Why you are being defensive when you are the one who misunderstood?

[@forgottenfamily]

When I first started working (software development), my billing rate to customers was $205/hr and my hourly pay was $26.5/hr.

[@miral6694]

Boss makes a dollar while you make a dime, and that's why you poop on company time.

[@CTKnoll]

This seems... crazy on so many levels. As an engineer in the fuck you money zone at the "end" of my career (it'll be unlikely I ever make more than I do), I make about $150 an hour (and even then it's complicated its not all cash in my paycheck). I do not deserve to make that much frankly on the merits of my work. When I was doing contracting in Texas, people were horrified by the $120/hr contractor rate I was making about 70% of, a takehome of about $85/hr. It wasn't easy to find customers. How do you get skilled enough that people are willing to pay $200/hr for your labor, but are in such a bad spot from a business perspective that you're paid 15% of it??

[@forgottenfamily]

@@CTKnoll Custom development services for our applications. We actually want to disincentivize customers from asking for these services and use our product as-is since it increases long-term maintenance risks and decreases long-term stability but neurotic customers are neurotic. Since you'd need to be able to add it to our application's code base, there's only one company you can buy it from and since you spent hundreds of thousands getting our application and training your staff...

[@gellis24]

Was in a very similar situation myself. Got a tech job right out of college getting paid 40 dollars an hour which seemed pretty good. Then I learned my billing rate for customers was 250 dollars an hour. Was making the corporation a lot more money than I received😢

[@forgottenfamily]

@@CTKnoll I though I answered this when you posted it but it seems to have disappeared. It was custom services work for a product we published. We had exclusive access to the code base and we wanted to discourage our customers from doing custom work and just accepting our product as-is but if people were going to insist....

[@hoodiesticks]

Rin: "... And then Apple takes a 30% cut..." Me donating from a Windows PC and watching on an Android phone: "dafuq?"

[@SimoneBellomonte]

Apple is cringe. 😂

[@sammybutler3027]

Google would in your case

[@claws61821]

Google does now too. It's why you can't buy anything digital through Amazon apps anymore.

[@SelecaoOfMidas]

​@@sammybutler3027 It would be redundant (same parent company), but yeah, I wouldn't doubt it.

[@JohnSmith-kt3yy]

Where does apple even fit into the picture?

[@blazerchocobo]

If your oshi has a Streamlabs donations link (even if you won’t get to see the big red number in chat) use that for your donos! Their cut is much smaller than youtube's.

[@NiqIce]

Or buy merch (if they have)．You’d at least get something out of it

[@iammaberandom]

​@@NiqIcethey don't get much from merch (at least for corpo), but voice packs is where it's at

[@NiqIce]

@@iammaberandom Well if that’s what you want then sure. Tho I’ve never really bought anything since the postage itself is more expensive than the item *ehem*

[@kevzzzzzz]

Risu's streamlabs from HoloId is my favorite since she changes the notif sounds a lot haha

[@petra_the_trap]

​@@NiqIcedoesn't work like that

[@whothehellarewe]

So remember, gents; If you really want to simp, use direct donation lines that your vtuber of choice may be using. There are ways to support them that won’t be as heavily preyed upon by leeches. They’ll still get _taxed_ but, at the very least, your donations won’t be going to KZbin or Apple.

[@bruxinth4660]

One word: Chargebacks.

[@EndoftheBeginning17]

While you can go through Streamlabs they still take a cut as does paypal, however there are some issues as the VTuber has to get permission. The best thing you can do is to pay directly via KZbin, yes they take 30% but at least that pays for the fact that the VTuber is using KZbin. This is better than the 50% split that Twitch does.

[@ferociousfeind8538]

There's a reason they include 3rd party sites in the description of their streams! Because it can basically double the power or your donation!!

[@drakozozhaeternus2840]

The answer is to find a PO box or something and mail a wad of cash or coin- modern hypercapitalist problems require antique feudal state solutions

[@ferociousfeind8538]

@@drakozozhaeternus2840 gasp! Illegal!! You aren't allowed to use the postal service to move money around!!

[@MXALOVE]

Lesson learned: Don't donate through an Apple product

[@NEWGHOST9]

Web browser, thats all ye need to know

[@WyvernVin]

So Google takes double for donating through the Android cut and the KZbin cut?

[@karafoxu5374]

Lesson learned: don't apple

[@Wranid]

​@@WyvernVin there isn't a double dip like the often called "apple tax" of 30%. In most cases you just pay directly with a card not through Android itself so much like buying it on your computer.

[@dlanbatal]

@@WyvernVin Nope, android does not take a cut in this fashion

[@j3tridge]

streamlab

[@arumaka3662]

I was afraid to ask why this was pinned

[@gyrmiss5434]

why is this pinned?

[@alastor--radiodemon7556]

This deserves being pinned

[@gyrmiss5434]

@@alastor--radiodemon7556 why is that the case, dear radio man?

[@HeartFire_]

Because while donating through streamlabs they might still take a cut (idk if they do or not just assuming) it's not as much as in the short. Maybe 30% goes to streamlabs and that's it, you still get 70% straight into PayPal or whatever

[@mongolianstallion8274]

Didn't expect a vtuber yt short to be slightly radicalizing

[@Lianpe98]

Oh that's just because she's terminally british

[@ThatWildcard]

​@@Lianpe98i hope they find a cure soon

[@drakozozhaeternus2840]

I HATE CAPITALISM I HATE CAPITALISM I HATE CAPITALISM I HATE CAPITALISM

[@N0M4OFFICIAL]

Rin, my sweet innocent child, That $24.50 is still more than what I make in an hour

[@albertoteshiba316]

It's more than I make in 3 days .-.

[@Brandon-uy1uv]

​@@albertoteshiba316I feel ya bro. now how do we escape our third world countries? 😂 We become vtubers with voice changers or what haha

[@spectre9340]

To be fair that's a single donation. A Vtuber could go days without a donation that big. So who knows what their hourly/daily income actually is like?

[@N0M4OFFICIAL]

@@spectre9340 okay true, I didn’t think about it that way, thank you for providing me with another perspective

[@spectre9340]

@@N0M4OFFICIAL As someone who relies on commissions, it's definitely not fun not having an hourly income 😅

[@asheepwhereitsnotsupposedt338]

That “thanks Neil” shook me to my core I wasn’t expecting it so to hear my name said in such a way shocked me

[@maxmanchik]

*Neil jumpscare 😱*

[@blackman5867]

Neil Armstrong

[@beaverjedi]

Must have been surreal lmao

[@Moald]

​@@beaverjedidon't you mean surneil? I'll see myself out.

[@corllirk00]

@@Moald No dont go

[@Mojo_3.14]

It's one of the reasons that many streamers have a direct donate link in there bio. If you are a small streamer where every penny counts this really helps by cutting out the middlemen taking cuts out of monetary support. The only problem is that the extra step of having to follow a link and fill out the financial info versus the one click super chat donations really does deter a large percentage of people out of simple laziness.

[@maxmanchik]

But, I'm if someone watches a streamer even tho that streamer has like 100 viewers at max (or/and few thousand followers) then if they're willing to pay the streamer to help them out, I'm sure they would rather go for 10 minutes of filling info instead of wasting 30-50% of what they're trying to donate

[@SnowPiecer]

What if the said streamer don’t turn on superchat? Would his watchers go on the link or we could observe a decrease in revenue? Does he actually teach his watcher to click on the link instead of the supa button?

[@practicallyprinz]

It's mostly due to people not knowing, for example I didn't know so much of your money gets gobbled up by the swine. If I donate just $10 dollars it's actually 180 odd bucks from my currency. I don't want anyone but the streamer to get my cash, that's like taking 1/3 Christmas presents from a child because you helped wrap them.

[@SprinklesDay]

just remember half of this can be avoided by 1: not using apple and 2: using a different website to donate which will probably block youtubes cut also idk if this is true this is just me conclusion

[@joekickass8943]

Of course there's that websites cut. Out of the fire and into the frying pan.

[@hailthequeenFM]

StreamLab's cut is less than 30%, idr the exact percent.​@joekickass8943

[@nishhx_x]

@@joekickass8943oppa xiangling

[@1337Koios]

*apple or android

[@rreeereer6074]

​@@1337KoiosAndroid is open source, it doesn't take any cuts.

[@aviwanderman7657]

Why the FUCK does Apple of all companies get a 30% cut

[@juliusnebulus7303]

Exactly what i was thinking. First, why in general? Second, who would be so insane and work with that overpriced low quality and incompatible exept with other apple products while being absolutely greedy and selling everything seperately overpriced piece of shit of a company? Dammit. I got carried away with the insults again.

[@135SolidSnake]

Donating from the Twitch app on iPhone gives Apple a cut of the money

[@SirRichard94]

They take a cut of any in app purchase. Thats why epic sued them

[@Mike_stuy]

​@@135SolidSnakeyet another reason why apple and their products are garbage

[@Candlemancer]

Because they take 30% of everything you spend through apps on their devices. Because iPhones weren't enough of a scam as it is lol

[@astranix0198]

And when a video is demonetized, youtube takes 100% of the profits.

[@pecoliky8793]

Yea, but not ad revenue, so its shit basically

[@pecoliky8793]

Unless those mfs actually monetized it anyway, which in all honestly wouldnt really surprise me

[@username172]

​@@pecoliky8793no ad revenue aside from the mandatory double ads they play before and after every video regardless of monetization (i might be remembering wrong)

[@FerunaLutelou]

​@@pecoliky8793no, because they still run ads on those videos

[@Qardo]

​@pecoliky8793 No, KZbin makes money no matter what. If you are not apart of KZbin's partnership program. KZbin will still put ads on your videos and makes hundreds of dollars. And if you are "demonetized". KZbin still takes that ad money. KZbin wins no matter what. Reason why they always change the rules and move the goal posts. All to find ways to never pay the content creator. And do not get me started with Apple wanting 30% of ALL transactions with the Apple store. That is bullshit right there.

[@Oriansenshi]

The way you explain things is so entertaining. I feel like I could listen to you explain anything and be entertained.

[@arjostarudo9406]

"Because poor old apple just really needs that money right now!!" That's sarcasm for you apple, in case you didn't get it.

[@bigboibebop]

Ok, KZbin may be making more money than both of us, but you’re still making more money sneezing than I am in a factory.

[@DrRyan82994]

I do processing and warehouse, and I know I'm using the companies equipment and everything, but I can run like, 12,000 pounds of pretzels one night, load $100,000 worth another night, either way it's a yellow supa an hour. and the taxes I don't even want to think about it

[@bigboibebop]

@@DrRyan82994 I made hundreds of dollars worth of parts an hour on an assembly like but I was only getting paid 16 dollars an hour. Are you getting paid for the work you’re doing or are you on hourly pay? I doubt you’re making that much on an hourly pay at a factory. You may be handling thousands of dollars worth of material, but you’re not getting paid in full for that. The warehouse is the one selling the material for thousands, I don’t see how you’d be making that much money.

[@emikochan13]

Entertaining is both harder and more important, so it gets paid more.

[@rainbr1nger115]

​@@emikochan13 Arguably false on both fronts.

[@handlebarista222]

@@emikochan13 did you really just say that entertainment is harder and more important than manual labor??

[@elektra8535]

KZbin CEOs trying to not make the platform horrible challenge (IMPOSIBLE)

[@megatron8449]

PREMISSION TI EXTERMINATE THE NEW CEO?

[@Jacob-bn1nj]

Still slightly better than twitch somehow

[@lambai4114]

@@megatron8449 and then the next one might still be worse

[@asdanjer]

That is literally the stupidest coment under here. KZbin is literally providing all the infrastructure here. Which is the most expensive part of a stream. They aren't even profitable. KZbin make a lot of mistakes but a 30% cut is more than faire. Apple taking 30% just because you are using an iphone on the other hand is the thing that you should actually complain about.

[@Souls4Roca]

New ceo is a crypto bro... you had to ride the flag...

[@TheSurrealist.]

This is the transparency the youth need to hear. I get paid weekly as an LMT. I don’t know what I’d do if I was paid AT THE END OF THE MONTH.

[@LFanimes333]

Uh… Isn’t it normal to be paid monthly in the US? It’s the absolute standard here in my country. You either get paid monthly as an employee or you have your own clients as a liberal professional. There’s no third option as far as I’m aware. Or at least not as a common practice by law.

[@Jeri-Berri]

​@@LFanimes333 It is normal to be paid monthly, but I've also seen jobs out there that pay weekly or biweekly. I personally get paid weekly.

[@121slayer]

@@Jeri-Berri I have always been paid bi-weekly and I live in America sadly.

[@PrixtoTNT]

It's normal to get paid at the end of the month. That's where the expression "to reach the end of the month" comes from

[@VelociraptorsOfSkyrim]

​@@LFanimes333I've been paid weekly for the last two-three years

[@lovelylylyaudio]

Even regular KZbinrs don't keep most of their money🥲

[@EndoftheBeginning17]

Regular KZbinrs only get 55% of ad revenue, but they don't know which ads pay what, so the income can be variable if the ads have a low rate. Streaming memberships and Superchats, in that respect are much more reliable

[@SUNOSidk]

Another thing to mention is that a 50/50 cut is very very generous. More than likely, some agencies have a 70/30 or a 60/40 cut, in favor of the agency.

[@temptempy1360]

well how much do your sales and service staff get from their chargeout hours/sales figures?

[@SelecaoOfMidas]

And then there is VShoujo, who doesn't take anything off the top (after YT/Twitch).

[@NaderinZim]

It's kinda like freelancing though, they get the equipment, marketing, legal support, etc from the agency, so it's risk free (instead of investing the money first yourself and risking losing it), not only that but even if they get kicked out (like Kson for example), they can still ride on the fame afterwards.

[@gokbay3057]

@@NaderinZim KSON (or well, Coco in this context) wasn't kicked out, she quit. Now Rushia, she was actually fired.

[@NaderinZim]

@@gokbay3057 Surely that changes my point...

[@Hotrob_J]

The 30% cut for KZbin honestly makes sense, serving and hosting video is expensive. It's the 30% apple tax that gets under my skin, they literally only charge it because they can.

[@Elijah666]

Ok educate me… why does apple take 30% and wtf does apple has to do with any of this? It’s honestly sounds abit like bs

[@kev5160]

@@Elijah666 she specifically says if you superchat from an iPhone

[@Elijah666]

@@kev5160 iPhone doesn't take 30%... only KZbin does

[@tteqhu]

@@Elijah666 Apple store takes 30% for bigger devlopers - KZbin included. They process payments, and do legal work, but you can do that more cheapily.

[@Hotrob_J]

@@Elijah666 for any purchase made through an app on an iPhone (other than through the Web browser, but all other kinds of in-app purchase) you have to use apple's payment process, and they charge a 30% transaction fee. If your app instead redirects to a webpage to make the payment (or even says you can't make the payment in the app and have to visit their website), this violates their TOS and they'll pull it from their store as happened with float plane and fortnite.

[@marinemanaphy101]

Also don’t forget that the smaller creators who’re just starting out will often go several months without a payout because KZbin has a $100 minimum before it’ll pay you. So if you follow a small creator and send them $20 on January 1st, but they only make $70 from the rest of January, then they won’t get paid at all for January. They’ll have to hope that their combined January + February earnings clear $100 total, and then they’ll get paid around March 20th. If you ever see a small creator hyping up memberships or pushing their videos especially hard in the last week of the month, that’s often part of the reason why, especially in Q1 when ad rates are low. Twitch also has a payout minimum of $50, which is nice, but they also take 50% of your sub money compared to KZbin only taking 30% of your membership money, which is less nice.

[@Harbiter]

Wait, so if they never reach $100 they will never get the money and KZbin just keeps it all?

[@fallen-frost]

too long didn't read

[@callmesummon]

@@Harbiter yup pretty much

[@shirohanabusa2775]

​@@fallen-frostbasically, not making enough money? No money for you at all.

[@alexturnbackthearmy1907]

@@shirohanabusa2775 When living wage is more fair:

[@darkin1484]

In summary, all youtubers and vtubers are getting robbed. Lesson complete.

[@IsAcRafT]

AND then... the taxman appears

[@Genburthing]

The IRS doesnt care, just say you make money and wash it with the company you work congratulations, you have not taxes (Besides the fact that Rin is British, but most of the Vtubers are in America, so…yeah) Edit: ¡PEOPLE, THIS IS A JOKE, THIS IS OBVIUSLY NOT HOW MONEY WORKS!

[@MultiBitcheskiller]

Yeah, just commit tax evasion, ez pz, no way that could go wrong.

[@privateincognita71]

@@GenburthingThere are no IRS in the UK, only His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs and Jeremy Hunt

[@Vistresian1941]

@@Genburthing That's not how taxes work.

[@annonimity276]

​@@Genburthingthat money still gets taxed, however you can avoid taxes if you spend the money on buisness expenses, for example if you make 100 dollars and owe 50 in taxes but you spend 30 on an editor you only end up paying tax on 70 dollars meaning you owe 35. The real way to game the system is to use buisness equipment for personal reasons, a small construction buisness can write off a trailer as a buisness expense and then use it to go camping. Or write off a computer for work and game on it. If you have an office in your house you can write off some of your property tax based on the percentage of square footage in your house that's an office.

[@masakishi]

I knew some of this for Superchats, but not all. Thank you Rin. I wonder, does it work exactly the same for memberships?

[@MastersTestingFacility]

*I think yes,* the same should go for the cumulative money made on all the _channel memberships…_

[@SimoneBellomonte]

@@MastersTestingFacility Pfp Sauce (Artist)? 🗿

[@gokbay3057]

I think the cuts might be smaller for memberships compared to superchats but yeah, pretty sure there is still a cut.

[@tteqhu]

@@gokbay3057 youtube's cut is flat 30% across (I think) - channel memberships for sure follow 30% too

[@b_____d]

@@gokbay3057 the cut is the same for memberships

[@FearTheFreePenguin]

You forgot taxes

[@AbystomaMexicanium]

Optional

[@caesarwiroreno7441]

Your highness, it is not a tax evasion if its a banger

[@rainthesomber]

I love that the sneeze comment isn't even hyperbolic there are genuinely Vtubers (and streamers in general) that get super chats and or donations over cute or surprising sneezes.

[@synmer7104]

Now do the tax part too. "How much do you keep from that $100 dono?" "About $3:50"

[@TehAsianator]

It's especially bad for VTubers working in different countries than their citizenship. Calli mentioned having to pay the high income brackets for both Japan and the US.

[@AweYeah]

@@TehAsianator Im pretty sure that was a mistake and she solved with a finance person iirc.

[@novadragon_official]

@@TehAsianator The US and Japan has a tax treaty to avoid double taxation, what happened to Calli was a human error.

[@DrRyan82994]

@@novadragon_official calli does have some of the most supers of anyone though. she was still living good with like an 85% tax, what the

[@kullingen6909]

​@@TehAsianator I only know of USA that do that.

[@anactualbear5683]

Just remember, when you say, "that person made more money from a sneeze than I make in an entire month. There is no justice in this world!" The response will still be, "...that is true."

[@necrosteel5013]

I dunno, It would probably apply if said person was also a vtuber who streams who also works just as much with a similar audience size. If only a jobs best amount could be reached instantly... Sadly the journey to it is often most of the pain a job brings.

[@tomoesan4547]

Yeah, my only problem with her saying that like it's a joke response is the fact that it's legitimately the truth. Obviously in terms of popular chuubas I mean.

[@firenzarfrenzy4985]

Hats off to Rin for taking the time and effort to become a VTuber just to warn the rest of us from the glittering facade of being a VTuber. What a hero.

[@cloudy7263]

i thought u meant rin as in kagamine rin

[@ScarletStarManor]

and this is why, if you see a creator, VTuber or no, with a personal donation link or donation button on a platform? Do your donation there instead, it helps them far more, it's not selfish, it's not being difficult, it's giving them better support.

[@Ace-08]

Like patreon?

[@ScarletStarManor]

@@Ace-08 Sort of, donating directly will always be better than Patreon.

[@tteqhu]

Feel free to chose most comfortable option to you, though. It's worth mentioning that directly donating you may be sharing your full name. (unlike going through patreon/yt etc) If you are vtuber you can make account that doesn't show your name. But it's still a bit safer behind patreon/youtube etc. But if option is there to pay in more direct way, consider it for sure.

[@hellerdamon6101]

24$ just for sneezing is still too much. I can't even give 5$ to a person living on the streets, and yall are giving hundreds to whealthy people and mega corporations?

[@mewmew8932]

ok but hear me out: i have to spend my money somewhere and i don't want a yacht@@hellerdamon6101

[@groerhahn225]

Now you might be saying "But what about indies, they don't have to share their donation with management". Well yeah, but instead they have to pay for their models and software. If you want an up-to-date model of the highest quality, including the rigging, you'd have to pay up to 10.000 dollars. Then there's software licenses. I don't know about Live2d models, I think it is actually affordable. But for 3d models, stuff is expensive. CodeMiko pays 10.000 sollars a year for software licenses, and had to pay 13.500 dollars for the exo-suit she needs for the body-tracking. Lower quality models woithl ess optimal body-tracking will surely be less expensive, but that just shows how expensive it gets. In order to become a professional Vtuber, you always have to commit. Either to a company, or to high financial expenses.

[@lukeshioshio]

Imagine needing to invest money into a creative business venture

[@NaderinZim]

Yeah, I'm definitely crying for them on my next 4 in the morning shift 6/7 days of work minimum wage job carrying heavy boxes around.

[@lukeshioshio]

@@NaderinZim this whole video is just some strange narcissistic propaganda it's so cringe

[@groerhahn225]

@@lukeshioshio Well, have you considered to fuck off then?

[@groerhahn225]

@@NaderinZim And whose fault is that? Rin's?

[@abbbble]

The funny thing is, the sneeze thing was literal. A popular vtuber could literally sneeze, it doesn't even matter if it was cute or not, they will earn bank from it

[@andrewrobinson8199]

Translation: It's exactly like any other job

[@JD-jc5hg]

This comment is 100% spot on

[@gaigetucker6242]

Most jobs pay every 2 weeks

[@Nitopayiw]

@@gaigetucker6242they mean in regards to your check being taxed 💀

[@enkelikarkki]

​@@gaigetucker6242 in my country they pay monthly

[@Weremole]

​@@gaigetucker6242in my country monthly is the norm as well.

[@XX_GGBOIZ_XX]

So in reality, a popular vtuber DOES make more money off of a sneeze than i can make in a month AFTER the cuts

[@Mfrt-e7n]

I live in a country where minimum wage is 400 dollars. then i see people superchatting one months worth of money...

[@NaderinZim]

My take way was also that: "So they don't earn 2 monthly salaries of mine in an hour, but 1? Oh ok..."

[@lukeshioshio]

@@NaderinZim most of the people who become vtubers are rich white girls so they have no idea how ridiculous they are coming off with their entitled perspective

[@xXJ4FARGAMERXx]

If a Vtuber gets $25.00 in donations every minute, and they get subjected to this $100.00 > $25.00 > $10.00 after all taxes treatment, they're still getting $300.00 per 2 hour stream, assuming they stream 5 days a week for an entire month, that's $6,000.00 a month, or $72,000.00 a year (if they continue that schedule with no breaks) All of this assuming 2 hours / stream, 5 streams / week, 48 weeks / year with $25.00 in donations every minute.

[@LostRocks]

@@xXJ4FARGAMERXx that’s assuming they get 25/minute

[@CyclingNeko]

The thing that I hate the most with SuperChat is: KZbin is classifying it as a product. For this reason, when you are sending donation via superchat, there will be VAT applied to your money. So if you sending 100 buck, your card can be charged for 110 buck. This is the reason why I never superchat anyone. I usually sending donation via different platform where a donation IS a donation. Not a product.

[@zovisapphire]

VAT is 25% and should always be INCLUDED in the prices

[@CyclingNeko]

​@@zovisapphire In where I came from, a donation cannot be subjected to VAT. When I'm sending my donation, I must make sure if the method to send my money is considered as donation, not a product. Our local vtubers also open their account on some third party donation sending platform. Those platform has donation system, thus cannot be subjected to VAT. Also, it encouraged to use third party donation platform instead than a superchat. Why? Because KZbin take a very big cut. Their agency also taking a cut. If I using third party platform, the vtubers that I want to support will receive higher share.

[@gokbay3057]

From what I have seen from superchatting the superchat amount includes tax (say if you are paying 20$, the tax is included in that). Which of course means the Vtuber in question is getting even less.

[@CyclingNeko]

​@@gokbay3057 Nope, that's not what happen in my screen (tried this again few minutes ago before tying this reply). I hit the superchat button, and then brought to the payment page, I saw 10% VAT is added to the amount. As much as I'm fine with tax, I still dislike for a donation system now is classified as a product by youtube. When you hit the SC button, you will not see anything that saying "donation" but you will see "purchase" information. So my option now, is sending donation using third party platform. Which is I'm glad that our local vtuber (Hololive too) actually open their account in third party donation platform. Althought, Hololive ID had to do that because superchat was not available that time. But I'm glad they are keeping the third party platform as an option.

[@gokbay3057]

@@CyclingNeko I checked KZbin again and yeah, VAT (18% in my country) is included in the full price. That said, yeah alternatives where there are less cuts so more of the money reaches the Vtuber are definitely preferable to Superchat.

[@Random_Gamer-sh6pf]

I don't even watch Vtubers, but these shorts are pretty damn good, so ig i'll sub

[@crowe6961]

Welcome to the rabbit hole!

[@mrwedge18]

I love how we're already throwing Neil under every bus we can. I'm so proud of this community

[@skyking4557]

Susan is already down the line,Neil is the new scapegoat

[@אלוןשיינפלד]

Whos niel?

[@אלוןשיינפלד]

Whos niel?

[@skyking4557]

@@אלוןשיינפלד the New KZbin CEO

[@mrwedge18]

@@אלוןשיינפלד New KZbin CEO

[@gwydionrusso3206]

Does anyone else really feel like Drop kicking everyone in the KZbin corporate office right about now?

[@akun50]

I'm wondering why the f**k Apple is taking a cut. If you're streaming on KZbin, I can understand them taking a cut (it is their platform), and I can understand the management agency taking a cut (they're doing things like setting up gigs, making merch, etc.)... where the f**k does APPLE come in?

[@gwydionrusso3206]

@@akun50 she specifically said chatting from your iPhone so I don't think it would happen if you had say Android because apple is just Apple

[@zee-fr5kw]

i mean the only reason vtubers exist is because they give them a platform, also youtube is not very profitable thats why they are pushing premium

[@tteqhu]

@@akun50 Payment processing, and some legal work, still 30% is crazy cut. They lowered it to 15% to small developers some time ago, and they could definitely sustain 15% for all developers.

[@Id-zk1tz]

@@gwydionrusso3206 no it happens with android too its not an apple but exclusive the best way to do it is on a pc

[@wesleyc8101]

I like how fancy this v tuber talks. Such a distinguished lady.

[@koro.the.dragon]

gentleman*

[@crankyfnaf0123]

@@koro.the.dragon ive been questioning if rin is a guy or a girl for like 3 weeks, thanks for the clarifacation.

[@declansavage519]

@@crankyfnaf0123 girl but they are a prince not a princess her lore is she didn't like being a princess

[@nordinreecendo512]

So what I'm hearing is that VTubers and KZbinrs need to unionize...

[@loserinasuit7880]

No they do not. They make a fuck ton of money.

[@gokaysensoy6852]

Vtubers of the world unite?

[@TNTspaz]

Nah. It'd onky be the case if they actually didn't earn a lot. However, this specifically just sounds like they made a lot of poor business decisions. These would still happen in a union. The only difference is now you have to pay union dues lol The biggest lie with unions is they are honest about pay. They are arguably worse due to poor advocacy and having to rely on them for everything

[@prophecyempresslerena358]

"There is no justice in this world." Yes. Now I think VTubers need justice. Content creators in general need justice.

[@videoloversful]

That's why some vtuber says, "the best way to support your vtuber oshi are by buying their merchandises and voice packs" in term of economic business.

[@Vel_Vivi]

Direct streamlabs donations always, gamers

[@kyte1205]

I get your point but they still be making more from a sneeze than I do in a month.

[@andykerr1263]

For real they danced around the question and said "doesnt matter, youtube makes more"

[@cionm7077]

@@andykerr1263 Not really, it depends on the Vtuber, obviously the top ones (that belong to Japanese agencies) make a lot of money, but they also do a lot of other stuff besides KZbin. Like TV or product commercials, radio shows and stuff. Overall any popular person in any entertainment biz is making more than the average joe, that is obvious, not dancing around.

[@gladewings1192]

Then become a vtuber then and see how you will earn almost nothing like those thousands of indie vtubers right now.

[@ohsehun6470]

well yeah... if even the TOP of an industry cant make big bucks that industry is doomed

[@Pokemaster-wg9gx]

I love how we’ve shifted from memeing on Susan to *THANKS NEIL* lel

[@TheDocperian]

And this is why I always donate through Streamlabs I know they still don't get all of it, but I sure as heck don't want to be paying YT more than I need to.

[@anonEDM]

I send my indie oshi money via streamlabs so she gets ~99% of it(not counting possible income tax)

[@keyrtan]

And then you have operating expenses like paying for an editor, mods, equipment, etc.

[@TheWaluigiman1]

You're implying that you can't get some simp to moderate for free.

[@sam7559]

Oh no not a thing you do when youre already established

[@Pherim_]

​@@TheWaluigiman1If you want someone who do a good job, free its not a good option

[@lotarion]

That's what the agency's cut is for

[@PrismZet]

I have to imagine the agency supports them too (depending on the agency) via sponsorships, merch, concerts, etc. They won't let them starve by any means, it's their job, some of them pay wages some don't, they all balance based on how much control and support they get too.

[@tteqhu]

Yeah, they're not signing contracts and staying there this long for no reason, agencies are definitely generally good. Guaranteed following from the start, managers, legal work, starting investments - everything, so you don't have to worry much about technical details.

[@JD-jc5hg]

​@@tteqhu That & the most important thing, experience. Myself & many other people have little to no experience with all this streaming stuff, but an agency will guide you

[@ScootyPuff_Jr]

Like working for anywhere else. Maybe 1/3 of the money generated goes in your pocket (before tax). The rest goes to making the company run and keeping everybody else happy.

[@kisamuda]

why tf is apple taking 30% just because apple pay?? that's a ridiculous amount just for a service

[@neongamer42]

The 30% KZbin takes is a pretty fair cut tbh

[@Ketsuegg]

Better than Twitch's 50 that's for sure.

[@CrnaStrela]

​@@Ketsuegg twitch took what??????

[@shriekinninja330]

@@CrnaStrela That's from subs/giftsubs. The bit donations work differently and many streamers use streamlabs or something similar for cash donos that twitch can't touch.

[@justadragonnamemarcus1751]

​@@KetsueggI'm sorry TWITCH TAKE MONEY TOO? ಠ∀ಠ

[@CenturianTale_Halo]

Glad I subscribed to get her recommended- she's so funny- "There is no justice in the world *stare into the abyss" "and while that's true, my condolences" I love repeating this video for that part

[@qkcum]

She??? That's a he

[@CenturianTale_Halo]

@@qkcum what makes you say that? "Rin is the self proclaimed prince ("not princess!")... though *SHE* tries to maintain a proper demeanor befitting of *HER* royal heritage..."

[@Sniper5875]

no job is free money, but being able to enjoy it more than another job is why people still do it

[@shadowlife15]

You can skip the apple cut by not using the youtube app on apple devices, or just donating on a non-apple device to begin with. Just FYI.

[@skyabovetheocean]

This is why I Vtube on twitch. 30% split with me getting 55% ad revenue as well.

[@ezzzzyyy]

Someone donates 50 dollars and a quarter of that is still worse than my hourly pay than my soul sucking warehouse job

[@yourfriendlyneighborhoodjinx]

If you factor in the equipment they buy (PC parts, vtubing gear if they need it, mic, etc) along with any projects they fund that pay kinda disappears. I imagine corporate vtubers get some kind of salary for the time they spend doing behind the scenes work as well though. A good chunk doesn't go to them so they're not rolling in it, but it's also not like they're hurting either

[@jegantdragoch.7088]

besides that when the vtuber gets that money at the end -they still need to pay taxes on that money back to the Gov. how lovely.

[@M4TTYN]

Can listen to rin talk endlessly... it's so calming and elegant! Sucks for you're oshi who streams on twitch too! idol EN vtubers are so cool (given the cuts taken, no offense to staff)

[@therealkrishanlal]

So, in conclusion, if you care about the creators earnings, don't donate from ab Apple device

[@konstantin8845]

Damn that kinda sucks

[@ToastyMozart]

It's pretty much the overhead cost of any kind of business like this: The VTuber isn't providing the bandwidth or hardware to broadcast the video, the streaming equipment, the marketing and managerial services, etc themselves so they pay for it out of their revenue. Except Apple's cut. Apple don't provide anything they just take it because they can. Blatant rent-seeking scammery.

[@zee-fr5kw]

its pretty good tbh better that doing everything by yourself, you would have to make your own website to post videos, do your own promotion and host your own servers, and make your own models

[@RurouTube]

People criticizing YT for taking 30% of the SC seems to ignore the fact that YT actually give them (and everyone) the platform to stream for free. You might seen news about YT making certain billions of revenues from YT, but revenues is not profit. Afaik, the number is just a gross number before giving some of it to content creator and other party (like Apple if you're giving SC from iOS). Personally I'm fine if YT taking 30% (I'm not even sure YT actually making a lot of money considering the cost running a streaming platform). Apple taking 30% OTOH is not okay. Apple is basically getting free money for not doing anything. On top of that, it is probably not 30% YT, 30% Apple since the 30% KZbin/70 creator split is after Apple fees, thus it is more like 30% Apple, 21% YT, 49% creator. There might be other charges on top of that like tax, but the big split is more or less like that. I'm not against people that are donating directly, but some people simply take things for granted. They use this YT service for free thinking that they entitled to use it for free and try to preach to everyone that you should use adblocker or don't donate via SC. People like this failed to recognize that running a platform like YT cost a lot of money, probably more than they can imagined. If everyone actually try hard to avoid giving money to YT, what will happen is that YT will simply go bankrupt or turn into mostly paid service. For smaller content creator it is probably for the best if you donate to them directly, but for the big content creator, you shouldn't have to worry whether they will get 100% of your donation or not.

[@kekstra258]

Thanks for understanding running a company isnt free and hating corporations blindly just because they are grand

[@aethernity8270]

That's just a great way u explained i will remember this

[@Chiron1202]

Seems totally fair, how else can a small time company like KZbin hope to make money

[@Dice-Z]

I hate the higher ups at KZbin more than anyone, and youtubers definitely should be getting more money, but let's not pretend there isn't absolutely massive maintenance costs needed to host an unconceivable ammount of videos.

[@DrRyan82994]

I think KZbin was run at a loss until recently. the last few years have been astronomical

[@billwilson1225]

KZbin is the world's video archive. Can you imagine the amount of old media that would be lost or undiscovered without it? That's why I don't begrudge them their cut.

[@aethernity8270]

KZbin can do anything and get away with it because they know no one can replace there place in this market anymore