Ripewave Connections - September 7, 2024 Marantz Model 10 Onkyo TX-RZ30

Ripewave Connections - September 7, 2024 Marantz Model 10 Onkyo TX-RZ30
In this session we talk about:
Marantz Model 10
Marantz SDCD 10
Maratnz Link 10n
Onkyo TX-RZ30
#marantz #onkyo #jbl #hometheater #ripewave

[@EdUwadia]

Jon, this channel is amazing! While listening to your guidance on how to connect a speaker, I found myself thinking, 'Wow, that’s a lot of work!' It made me wonder about the purpose of the channel and who your target audience is. As an enthusiast, I really enjoy hearing your reviews and feedback on various AV products. This type of content is interesting, even when I’m not actively looking for a new AV solution. It keeps me informed on current capabilities and features, giving me a strong foundation when I do decide to upgrade. Nice discussion, Jon

[@weduhpeople8504]

I had bought an Onkyo Tx-rz50 which I am currently set up in 7.2.4 Atmos setup. I initially had it in 7.2.2 then realized I needed an external amp to run extra rear hight speakers. I saw my 25+ year old Denon AVR- 3802 7.1 receiver I got for my dad when I worked for the Good Guys back in the 1990’s had rca inputs for rear back surrounds which I used for that in my 7.2.4 setup. I also ended up buying the Emotiva XPA DR3 to run my front stage speakers which are also 25+ year old pair of Boston Acoustic VR30 towers I got for my dad from working at the Good Guys.

[@ripewave]

It is nice to keep that older equipment. I am still using a Sony amplifier I bought in 2000 for my height channels. The Emotiva XPA DR-3 is a great way to power the front stage. I think you made the right move to go with all three channel matchings for Front Right/Left/Center (not just right and left). It make for a more consistent front stage and center is used a lot in movies. -Jon

[@MrTchou]

My guess is the RZ 30 will surf on the waves of the RZ 50, them insisting on the extended bandwidth etc makes me think they improved on the preamp part specifically and it might end up with better numbers than the RZ50 preamp part. Tbh i was more expecting a Higher end model RZ 90 than a lower end model from Onkyo. This will hurt the NR line sales in my opinion.

[@ripewave]

I agree getting a model below the TX-RZ50 was not expected. If the specifications end up being better, I am all for it - progress. The 70 and now 30 are post ownership change while the 50 was designed beforehand. It could hurt the NR line, but if they steal from sales their own portfolio while gaining new Onkyo owners, it is worth it. -Jon

[@MikeMargolis-j8f]

Jon, Do you think there's any way Voxx/Sharp/11 Trading will consider bringing back certain features on future Onkyo models? I used to be a diehard fan of this brand until they eliminated showing the sound mode AND input name at the same time on the front panel of the receivers, as well as the incredibly useful IntelliVolume feature. These were deal breakers for me when shopping for a new AVR, so I went with a Denon AVR-X2800. I'd love to return to Onkyo because I loved the sound, and I've even suggested making these changes to their engineers.

[@ripewave]

That is great feedback for their product managers. I hope they are listening. -Jon

[@EdUwadia]

Jon, I loved your comparison of the Denon X4800H to the Cinema 50. While similarly priced, they differ in features and power-Denon offers more value. Masimo and others often compare Marantz to lower-priced Denon models, arguing Marantz is better due to its HDAMs and other components. For example, they might compare the Cinema 50 to the Denon AVR-X3800H, which costs $1,000 less, and then claim Marantz sounds better-well, it should be $1,000 more! That’s not a fair comparison. I prefer seeing what $2,500 gets you with Denon vs. Marantz. I’d love your broader take on Denon vs. Marantz since they share a parent company, interface, and presentation, yet seem aimed at different audiences. While Marantz is often seen as higher-tier, I suspect that may not be true when compared by price point.

[@ripewave]

Masimo is certainly pushing customers to pay more for the Marantz branded products. You are correct that paying $1,000 for very similar specifications and feature sets is hard to justify. It is fair to set Marantz a few hundred more for upgraded component costs. It is possible that a Marantz component may cost 50% more then a Denon component; yet only result in a small difference in audible improvement. The ability to hear that improvement may require better speakers and great calibration. I think it is great that there is a Denon range to provide a higher value solution. My guess is that while they can justify the higher cost for the Marantz equivalent model, they are also taking higher margins - something for you, something for them. -Jon

[@sanjinhadziomerovic7584]

Hi Jon. I loved your detailed review of the RZ50 and I am eagerly awaiting your future review of the RZ30. Based on your reviews, I am aware that the RZ50 would be a better purchase than the Denon x3800h, however in Europe currently, the price difference is significant: the RZ50 is 60% more expensive (EUR 1600 compared to EUR 995 for the Denon). Given that fact, is it still a better purchase? I plan to use the AVR a lot for stereo (turntable and movies in 2.1), therefore the 4 independent sub outs do not really matter that much to me on the Denon. Everything else apart the price difference is pointing me to still choose the RZ50. I am curious to hear your thoughts too. Thank you!

[@ripewave]

I will be getting to the RZ30 soon. It will likely be a feature and specification review and not an in-house review at first. It is unfortunate that the pricing is not as favorable in Europe, it makes the decision harder. If the Denon x4800h is the same cost or less, I would go with the Denon. However, I still may select the Onkyo RZ50 over the Denon x3800h. -Jon

[@MikeMargolis-j8f]

I'd jump on an RZ30 in a heartbeat - without even needing Atmos support or channel support beyond 5.1 - if Voxx/Sharp/Whoever is in control of them now fixed the stupid display on the front and added the IntelliVolume feature back in. So I'm with you on getting Onkyo to up the mechanical aspects on these units - and I agree about their ugly, cheap remotes that belong bundled with the NR5100 and below. And, yes - I believe all this changed with their products when the company was in transition; so many dumb decisions on operational elements, design, etc. Man, I wish the original owners from Japan bought the company back and returned this brand to its previous glory.

[@ripewave]

I like that they are providing now the RZ30 (I still need to review), more options to suit each use case. I guess I am not alone with the design issues raised. I will need to research the IntelliVolume feature - sound interesting. -Jon

[@MikeMargolis-j8f]

@ripewave Thanks Jon; do you believe the RZ30 would be overkill for a simple 5.1 setup with in-ceiling surrounds?

[@briangrose2101]

Hi Jon! Love the channel and your excellent/relevant info. I am upgrading my Denon 3700 as I have added some Paradigm 120h speakers and am working thru my components to achieve better sound quality. Currently have 9 speakers and no subwoofers. Considering Marantz Cinema 30 or 40 or Anthem MRX 1140. The Denon 3700 just makes to much noise( like a desk top CPU!). As my electrical outlets (2 outlets 10 ft apart) are all on the same circuit and I have 7 bits of gear plugged in, does this make adding a 3 or 5 channel amplifier to the mix silly or is there a way to do this smartly? (short of adding a 20 amp dedicated circuit, In which case I would opt for separates) Thanks for all the hard work you do, it really helps educate us on this side of the screen.

[@ripewave]

How are those Paradigm 120h speakers working out? They look impressive, but I have not heard for myself. What did you decide on for the AVR? I like the Cinema 30/40 options the most. -Jon

[@sleekblackroadster]

I have the Onkyo 6050 running only a stereo pair of Polk R200 at my computer and it does well with them, not 'muddy' or anything like the 6100 owner reported. Tonight I've been eyeing the deal on the Pioneer Elite 805 for $1499 right now at BestBuy for running my big surround setup though.

[@ripewave]

Have you upgraded yet? If so, how did it go? -Jon

[@sleekblackroadster]

@ripewave Yes, I went ahead and got the Pioneer flagship and have been happy with it. Was always planning to add an amp to my 9 channel yamaha to get my full 7.2.4 system going but now can make do with the single unit solution.

[@stumarch750]

For the record, the Yamaha RXA2A has 12,000 caps va 10.000 on the RXV6A. So technically there is a difference in the amplification, whether you’ll hear that or not is up to you

[@ripewave]

Thanks for providing that clarification. That helps. -Jon

[@johnsmith-i5j7i]

Regarding the Denon/Onkyo combo at 15 minutes, check if the Denon 7.1 RCA input has a analogue bypass, some do some don't. Check the denon input settings.

[@BeefyMon]

I’m doing this exact thing with my Onkyo RZ-830 (predecessor to your RZ50) and an old Cambridge Audio AVR. I’m using it to power the center and 4 surrounds, along with a beefy Carver amp to power the L&Rs, leaving the Onkyo with the 4 overhead speakers as its only duty. It works beautifully! Two thoughts though, one that you’ve already clued in to, is to determine whether there’s a digital stage in the signal path on the Denon. My guess is no- and the way to tell is if any of the delays, EQ controls, etc are available while using the discrete RCA inputs. if they’re unavailable, then I’m fairly certain it’s just passing the analog signal unmolested to the amp section (as is the case with my Cambridge AVR- the only control available for that input is Volume). The other item to note, is that I basically leave the Cambridge at MAX volume… it then acts like a normal standalone amplifier. I may have the channel trims tweaked a dB or two on the Onkyo’s channel setup, but in this case, “MAX” volume seems to mean “I’m just an amplifier now!”, which is exactly what I was looking for it to do. In case you’re concerned about any speaker damage from the volume set so high, remember, any standalone amplifier would blast uninhibited if fed a strong enough signal. The only thing I would worry about is the Denon accidentally getting set to the radio tuner or something. I’ve been running this way for 6 years, and it’s been a non-issue. I’m so glad I tried it, and I feel like I’m giving my Onkyo some extra life by not stressing it.

[@ripewave]

I like these clever solutions to leverage older equipment. -Jon

[@martinfarinha]

Hey Jon, Based on more details being available for the RZ30 as well as a couple of units out in the wild do you think this unit will be a value proposition? I have just ordered five older Jamo D500 THX select 2 speakers which are rated at 4ohms and only go down to 80hz, do you think these speakers will play nice with the RZ30?

[@martinfarinha]

Or should I just jump to the 70? The 50 would be my ideal price wise but all I see are complaints online.

[@ripewave]

I need to dig into the RZ30 more. I had to step away for a bit so I am behind on my analysis. I believe it is the only new AVR to be released in recent months so it is high on my list to cover. The Jamo D500 THX has a recommended power rating of 120-170W @ 4 ohm. Onkyo provides an 8 ohm rating of 100W. While they state that support for 4-16 ohm loads, they don't provide a 4 ohm load output rating. They will likely reach up to 120W @ 4 ohm or better, but that is not stated. The RZ50 is rated at 120W @ 8 ohm and the RZ70 is rated at 140W @ 8 ohm. I would feel safer with the RZ50 or RZ70, but you may be okay with the RZ30. The Jamo have an sensitivity rating of 87dB - not the most efficient, so they will like a little more current. -Jon

[@mattgiunt]

Have yet to hear what the Yamaha booth at Cedia was all about but it seems like no new Receivers have been reported. That Onkyo RZ30 might just be a game changer for receivers in 2025 as it pushes down the price for advanced features.

[@ripewave]

That seems to be case throughout the rest of 2024. Not a lot new in the second have of the year, just the JBL models and the Onkyo RZ30 as you noted. -Jon

[@DavidCNavas]

Jon -- would be helpful to have links to the comments you are responding to, in case someone else can help. For Lemon48 and his Denon issue -- I have a 6800 which forgets that it has ever been configured when power is removed about once every month -- let me explain. Because of the CEC issues in my KRP500M, I use a switching power strip to remove the power from the receiver when the TV is turned on/off. I got it when I had an Onkyo receiver that burned 50+ watts in standby, and I continue to use it because about a third of the CEC commands sent to my TV result in the panel complaining about illegal commands and I wind up having to stumble around to find that remote to dismiss the dialog box. Not worth it. But, that does mean that I'm yanking the power from the Denon, and rarely (about once a month) that results in receiver alzheimer. I use a USB backup to restore my settings. It's just frequent enough to be annoying, and not frequent enough to send it back. In point of fact, I usually have other random issues more frequently (hdmi handshake screwing the sound and requiring all device restarts). My old Denon would forget how to sync to the optical audio cable about as frequently. How I wish manufacturers would add another 9 to their reliability here. Anyway, I'd definitely send yours back. There's got to be something specifically wrong with our units, but you've got a situation that's definitely return warranted....

[@davestevens4193]

Had to wade through whatever until 35:30 to get to anything about the Marantz. Seriously!? Clickbait.

[@ripewave]

Sorry about that. This video is part of our “Ripewave Connections” series where I answer email questions and provide the latest audio news. We typically provide only light details as an announcement only. Then we follow up later with a more complete review. It is in those focused reviews we provide more in depth details. -Jon

[@MohsinWadee]

Marantz also state 500w/channel into 4ohms for the Model 10.

[@MikeMargolis-j8f]

That's GOTTA be a bloated number.....

[@MohsinWadee]

@@MikeMargolis-j8f no it's not.

[@MikeMargolis-j8f]

@@MohsinWadee That's amazing if it was confirmed.... that is a LOT of power.

[@MohsinWadee]

@@MikeMargolis-j8f as it should at $15,000 USD

[@MikeMargolis-j8f]

@@MohsinWadee Wait - is that a power amp or receiver? I could actually USE that kind of power for my front left and right channels, which are Polk RTi12s - they can take 500 watts RMS each - but I'd never be able to afford it.

[@Porchewaitombi]

In my humble opinion I'm requesting Yamaha Flagship receivers... to be made in Japan it will make a huge, Huge difference to put Yamaha Avr on top...like the Yamaha amplifier line....at least tge flagship shuld be 250 watts 11.2 150 Watts' all channel driven.. Maney is not the problem but give people what they want..perid.

[@EdUwadia]

Yamaha is great, but it needs a modern room calibration system like Dirac or MultiEQ-X that connects to your computer. While the high-end models offer manual PEQ controls, they miss the convenience and precision of advanced calibration options. I hope the upcoming flagship you mentioned improves on this, along with the OSD and the small LCD screen size relative to their current flagship

[@ripewave]

I agree. While I did experience good results from their proprietary YPAO (and I understand that Yamaha improved YPAO for this latest generation) those positive results may have been due to more ideal (not perfect) room and speaker placement conditions. More challenging environments may require a tool which is able to address those issues. Tools like Dirac and MultEQ-X give you a lot more control over the end results. -Jon

[@ripewave]

While being made in Japan is not the whole story, there is a higher chance for quality production. As Yamaha is a Japanese brand, one expects a flagship to be produced in their native country. I would rather see them reintroduce an AV Processor into their line with external amps to match with the 250W+ rating you suggest. -Jon

[@MSiAventador]

MARANTZ AV10 - EndGame AV. 😇 But the price... 🥴

[@ripewave]

Yes - the price is hard. Certainly waiting for a lower cost AV Processor option from Marantz. -Jon

[@ianorigbo7617]

This is real clickbait .... Where is the Onkyo RZ30. Almost talk about nothing till the end. Really disappointed

[@ripewave]

The series "Ripewave Connections" is not a review. It is a discussion of audio news and audience feedback. My reviews are labeled as a "review." Sorry that was not clear before you invested the time. -Jon

[@Porchewaitombi]

Maratz cinema 30 is not worth a flagship maybe they should correct those mistakes and bring cinema 20... With a proper buld quality. More power etc.... out of the box

[@EdUwadia]

What's Cinema 30 missing? Why is it not a proper flagship?

[@Porchewaitombi]

Build quality like you see the new Amp 10. That's a quality of a flagship 👍👏👏 Power shuld be atleast 140 watts all channel driven... Exl in put and aout put...surbwoor exl in and out.... etc.... Give what customer's what !!

[@EdUwadia]

@@Porchewaitombi I like the idea of giving customers what they want, but you're comparing a Marantz AVR receiver to a Marantz flagship dedicated amp. In fact, I don't believe the Amp 10 even includes an all-channel drive rating because that's an impractical measure for an amplifier like that. According to the Amp 10 manual, it provides 200W x 2 at 8 ohms, and 400W x 2 at 4 ohms or 8 ohms in BTL mode. This highlights its focus on high-quality stereo output rather but I wonder if would get close to that with all channels.

[@ripewave]

All great comments here. I felt the Cinema 30 was a very nice unit and gets my vote for the best AV Receiver under $5,000. In my review I used the Cinema 30 as an AV Processor and did not spend much time reviewing the amplifier section. As a processor, I think it holds up against the flagships of many competition (including dedicated AV Processors) and checks the most feature set boxes. With the AV10, Marantz shows they have another gear. What us customers are looking for are models between $4,500 (Cinema 30) and $7,000 (AV10) as part of a current lineup (i.e. Cinema 20 or AV20). The AV8805A and AV7706 still remain for active sale with their prior generation styling and feature sets. -Jon

[@carltonshirkey9078]

Sir, I normally like your stuff. Always a little dry but very detailed. In this case, I am very dissatisfied. Would be the nicest way to put it 39 minutes into your video before we hear about things in the title seriously. Are you desperate for views? Maysame harsh, but holy cow. Man, you don't know anything about it. Don't put it in the title.

[@ripewave]

I appreciate the candid feedback on the title. Sorry about that. This video is part of our “Ripewave Connections” series where I answer email questions and provide the latest audio news. We typically provide only light details as an announcement only. Then we follow up later with a more complete review. It is in those focused reviews we provide more in depth details. Going forward I may drop the news story details for the title, but likely include product photos in the thumbnail. -Jon