Rise of the Runelords GM Tips! Book 1: Burnt Offerings

[@BoxiestLlama]

The video I wanted, knew I needed, and was delivered just in time! I'm watching through y'alls adventure specifically to prepare for running it myself. So this is exquisite! Thank you for your time! Thank you for your commitment! Thank you!

[@ThirdAction]

No problem! I hope that my experience is helpful! BTW, if you (or anyone else who sees this) ever have questions or want feedback on something RotRL-related, feel free to comment/email/message me and I'll try to answer as best I can. :D

[@adrianflores4036]

@@ThirdActionHypothetically… someone wants to pick your brain on this adventure and get advice, what is your preferred method of communication? Asking for a friend…

[@adrianflores4036]

I couldn’t agree more!!

[@ThirdAction]

@@adrianflores4036 Discord is the easiest if you need a full conversation! My handle is @criticalham if you want to DM me, and the channel’s Discord server link is under some of the videos (too lazy to dig it up right now) . I can also respond to DMs to the Third Action Facebook page that I never update, lol. And regular old email works, too: [e-mail] !

[@Coid]

1:17:58 One thing to help drive the PCs being heroes home that our GM did when running through it, was that there were more goblins still outside of the gate moving to come in, but were instead routed when they saw the goblin commando leading them get killed along with his personal squad. Since stopping a whole additional group of goblins from entering the town would feel more heroic than just happening to kill more of the goblins than any single other group. (I haven't discussed it with the GM who ran us through it, but I also suspect that the bulk of the goblins at the gate turning tail and fleeing also conveniently helped cover up Tsuto's tracks with Tobyn's remains when we tried to track the graverobbers while investigating the mausoleum heist.)

[@twistedturns65]

Running this via Savage Pathfinder, thanks for posting this so many years after it's initial relevance!

[@Coid]

I don't think it's vanilla to the adventure, but the Crab encounter in the bowels of Thistletop is one where when I was a player, it was a giant hermit crab and using a slightly banged up but still largely intact gold-plated giant's helmet as its shell, and there was a small treasure hoard here that had been collected but not yet sent on to Xin Shalast when Alaznist made her play and then Earthfall interrupted that hatchet fight. I believe we all earned some major Greed points through how much effort we went through to get that helmet out of Thistletop, hauled out of the Nettlewood, and down to Magnimar so we could find someone willing and able to buy it, since even just being gold-plated that was still a lot of gold and beyond the raw value as treasure, it was, up to that point, one of the more intact treasures of ancient Thassilon that had surfaced. That auction in turn, provided us with an opportunity to be introduced to the Lord Mayor of Magnimar early, before he was a target for the Sihedron ritual by Xanesha, because he was the one who bought it (and a number of other rare prizes). Which helped gain his favor because whenever the party showed up, either we were saving his bacon or bringing him something new and fancy that no one else on Golarion had in their collections.

[@ThirdAction]

The golden helmet *is* actually canonical! In 1e, it's worth 3000gp and weighs 300 pounds. 🐚

[@Coid]

1:29:30 With Aldern, he was the source of our party's first mounts, including the finest horse in the Daviren Hosk's Goblin Squash stables for the lady bard he was smitten with, first rented for the day trip and then bought and gifted to the party at its conclusion along with a month's stabling for them. So it was a lavish gift (more than doubled the party's wealth in our game), incredibly useful, not something that the party could have gotten on their own at that point, and the mounts were something that we could keep using, long after the Skinsaw Murders. I believe we had them up until Book 6, where we decided that trying to take them with us to find Xin-Shalast would just kill them. Getting to name the horses also made the gift more memorable and was a nice bit of character development, showing who believed in the power of names, who didn't care about horses, and other such things.

[@CrossRetro]

Just starting up my campaign and these are a life saver! Thank you for putting you experiences up!

[@jackalbane]

Funnily enough, Orik lasted until the end of my campaign because the players spared him and paid him to be an extra hand. Somehow he survived through much of the campaign and, while he wasn't a changed man, he recognized he could get paid regularly for doing good things rather than working with bad guys.

[@breadtoaster1408]

This is amazing considering one of the first enemies you fight in Shards of Sin shares a last name with him and essentially can wind up in the same role. Starting as an enemy, but optionally becoming an ally for the same reasons your players did

[@Coid]

1:16:38 One interesting thing in a past playthrough of Rise of the Runelords is that the north gate was never left unlocked and unguarded, someone assassinated the guards there and actively let the goblins inside. (I don't recall how many guards, but between the guards at the gate dying and the ones who died or received long-term injuries, it began a long-running trend of Sheriff Hemlock having to replace a notable number of guards or notably increase the number of guards employed by Sandpoint basically every book of the AP that the party was present for.) We never actually figured out who did that. I think first we suspected some specter of elite goblin commandos and then after we defeated Tsuto and read his diary, maybe Tsuto, but by the time Skinsaw Murders came around and Aldern's connection to the Brothers of the Seven was revealed, then we concluded that it was probably Aldern who actually did that at the behest of Xanesha and his dog dying was actually a combination ploy to establish him as innocent and the goblins themselves getting a bit rambunctious upon finally getting to go into the town. So in that vein, I could totally see Aldern taking advantage of his relatively high level to Bluff but still slipping up by not having firmly committed the dog's name to memory or due to the party's timely interference altering the plan he had gotten.

[@andrewsimons8625]

Great wrap up at the ending, thanks for sharing. Hope the summary continues to the other books. Thanks!

[@snuzzlebumble]

In my game (currently nearing the end of Book 2), they captured Tsuto alive, got some info from him via the Charm spell, and he was held in jail until Justice ironbriar (to forshadow that in Book 2) came to take him to Magnimar for a trial. In Book 2 when they go to Magnimar, I had the trial begin then, and one of my players has a Legal Lore and a background as a lawyer (we're playing 2e) so I had to do a whole courtroom session with witnesses, other lawyers, and such. In the end, Tsuto was spared the death penalty and I had him sent to the Black Arrows as his punishment (the players have no idea he will show up in Book 3). I am thinking of adding him to the group in the Grauls with Jakardos and Kaven

[@ThirdAction]

Oooh, that's a fun twist, and a great way to tie book 1 and 3 together. I think you should go for it!

[@henriksebring7633]

Thanks for a really nice summary of your experience with Burnt Offering! I just finished the first book and have very similar learnings. We are attacking Skinsaw next but with some character sidequests to manage before starting it off.

[@cameronbuskell2545]

This came out at the perfect time. I'm starting my own campaign of Runelords 2e this week. Your experience and advice is very useful. Thanks a bunch.

[@ThirdAction]

Glad to be of service! o7 Hope your party enjoys it!

[@jenaus07]

Great video looking forward to the rest. Just found the channel but I'm very nostalgic for Rise of the Runelords since it was the first tabletop game I ever ran back in 2014 in 1E Pathfinder that lasted 3 1/2 years.

[@ThirdAction]

Thanks! It's such an iconic campaign, and I had a blast running it both in person and for this channel.

[@Coid]

The Shadows can help introduce an example of how cruel the Runelords were, if one of them understands Thassilonian or they bring Brodert Quink back to Thistletop after they clear it out and make it safe. OTOH, that the runelords were bad guys is easy info to obtain and is made increasingly clear as the AP progresses. I think the command from Karzoug for them to commit suicide has some potential to be altered to include a reference to the Hellfire Flumes of Alaznist, dropping that name as a term of interest about Ancient Thassilon for them to keep in their notes about mysteries they've encountered, for the final payoff in book 4 and 5. That does, however, depend heavily on them either understanding the message or bringing Quink to Thistletop to translate for them (or his niece from Wayfinder 7's Lure of Greed side adventure) AND them actually keeping notes about mysteries they encounter. At least keeping notes about mysteries is relatively easy on roll20 and some other virtual tabletops compared to a campaign journal written on paper.

[@jubalrahl]

I love this advice. Thanks for sharing and being humble. My group is still just after the goblin attack and getting aquainted to the town. Scheduling is the current BBEG lol

[@ThirdAction]

Scheduling really is an unkillable lich, lol.

[@Coid]

1:01:30 IIRC, The Scribbler isn't revived until Mokmurian's death, Erylium just survived the earthquakes that squished Xaliasa in the initial cataclysm of Earthfall due to just being in a different part of the complex and she's insane because she's been masterless and stuck in those Catacombs for ten thousand years.

[@ThirdAction]

Yeah, I just went back and reread the info in Burnt Offerings (p.33 of the Anniversary Edition), and you're correct. Erylium survived Thassilon's fall and just... lived down here. I guess quasits have a pretty long life span!

[@Coid]

1:27:55 Another way that the Late Unpleasantness can relate to the events of Burnt Offerings is that the Chopper's killings provided Nualia with a body to burn in her place when she committed her arson. Which in our game linked the Vinders to the Chopper's killings and Nualia, because the Chopper's last victim before the old Sheriff *was* the Vinders' oldest daughter who was about the same height and frame as Nualia. This did weaken Ven Vinder as a murder suspect in the killing his own daughter(not that he was a strong suspect to begin with), but it did make it much more understandable about why he was so overprotective of the daughters he had remaining to him. (Nualia using the Vinder daughter's body in her stead also was our first clue that something was *weird* about Father Tobyn's bones being stolen but not those of his daughter interred next to him, especially when Father Zantus and the graveyard keeper were commiserating to the party about how poor Nualia had only recently recovered from a terrible affliction that had left her in a coma before the fire. The reason that no one caught on to the Vinder daughter not being in the casket for her burial was the chaos caused by the fire meant that when the casket was remembered, it was hastily buried before the smell coming from it got any worse.)

[@dmeep]

I must say this was a very good video and allowed me to find the second edition conversion guide over on paizos page. something i didnt know they had published. I havent had time to look through it just yet. Have you thought about making your conversion of this adventure path available to the general public?

[@ThirdAction]

My notes are all too scattered (between paper, Roll20, Foundry, pf2scribe, and Google docs) to really share in a convenient format, sadly. I know there are some conversions up on Pathfinder Infinite, though, and the Series of Dice Based Adventures conversion is community-sourced and free. I might try to share out some of my other resources (custom magic items and the like), but I'm not really sure what format I'd make that available in...

[@Coid]

With Trouble at the Rusty Dragon, we had it coincide with the evening of the day of the Boar Hunt. Because the boars were being hunted in order to throw a morale-boosting party and because Aldern wanted to build up the heroes to everyone else because he liked them so much. Which helped underline Lonjiku's scorn for the party, too, as well as just how trash he was, by having him show up to be a huge party pooper and buzzkill.

[@GodzillasaurusJr]

1:28:51 The Boar hunt is legendary in our group, because for like 7 rounds, nobody landed a hit. Not the boars, not an NPC, not a party member. Nobody. It got a bit hard to keep up the fiction that he was supposed to be super impressed with the party. A treasured memory for all who were there!

[@ThirdAction]

LOL, that's hilarious. I typically expect the boars to WRECK the party (in both 1e and 2e), but I guess there's no beating the dice gods.

[@MyParedrus]

Great video! Well deserved sub! Now I have to watch your playthrough of the campaign..

[@Coid]

One thing I was thinking about with Nualia is that Xanesha might have arranged for her to learn about the Sihedron ritual, but in a way that misrepresented it as something that would help her sacrifice the town to Lamashtu be even better as something to do to the elite of the town and any others she took captive. I know Nualia wants to charge the wrath runewell with wrathful deaths, but there's no reason she couldn't also have some plans for mass sacrifice, too. I even considered going so far as to have a list of "prime sacrificial victims" that on first inspection might just look like important people of Sandpoint but if the party remembers it, can help them connect the dots during the Skinsaw Murders about the victims being greedy types if they're a bit slower to cotton on. Especially since doing it would give Xanesha a parallel with her sister with using catspaws to engage in a little mass murder for the sake of waking up Karzoug faster, but still having the difference that Lucrecia actively stoked greed in people first before marking them while Xanesha is just going for what greed is already there and raw quantity of killings.

[@krystalfinlinson8517]

When I first ran erylium in 1st edition our cleric kept casting create water over her so she had to make a fly check to stay in the air and she kept falling to the ground and getting surrounded

[@ThirdAction]

LOL. That's certainly one way to keep her locked down.

[@GeekToMyNerd]

I’ve played in, and ran, ROTRL before, began running it in 5E, and am currently running it in Savage Worlds. It’s legit my favorite of the Paizo adventure paths!

[@Eryzule]

This is an awesome refresher. Ive run this in P1 a few times and am about to run it through my efforts of converting it to GURPS. Hope my group does well, and is as pleased as your own.

[@ThirdAction]

Oooh, a GURPS run should be quite interesting! I've never played it, but I find the system fascinating. Good luck!

[@Eryzule]

Thanks! Ill let you know how it goes.

[@Chucklzzz]

For the thistletop encounter, you spent some time mentioning that people try to burn the bridge or fort. In the AP, it specifically states that due to sea mist and fog, the wood is heavily saturated with water and does not burn. If they try to light a fire, it just smokes like crazy and alerts all the goblins

[@ThirdAction]

Oooh true, that’s a good point! I completely forgot the book mentions that. I will sort of caution, though, that you might want to let your players roll Nature/Survival to figure that out (or just warn them) before they attempt it-especially if they are new players. That’s the sort of ruling that can make some players feel like they are being punished for thinking creatively (even if it’s not well thought out, haha). At worst, I’d have it start smoking, but give the party a chance to try and douse the smoke before it sets off the alarm bells. If they are experienced players, though, they can probably deal with it.

[@Chucklzzz]

@@ThirdAction Oh yeah! For sure. We're just about half way through chapter 2, just approaching the Misgivings, but my players are totally new. When they came to Thistletop and they were like "Can we burn it down?" I answered, "You can try, but you notice that all the wood is heavily wet due to sea mist and unlikely to burn well." I wish I could have come up with a thing like "It'll make a lot of smoke so it'll attract a lot of attention." And then maybe allowed them to figure out maybe setting a diversion and sneaking in, but I wasn't ready for that at the time. We had a blast though, they loved it.

[@spaghettidigit]

I've come up with a few ways to get background information to the party. Information that's contained in the books, but the party might not ever learn otherwise. 1. If the party wants to know more about Tsuto's background, NPCs can point them to Headmaster Ilsoari Gandethus who essentially raised Tsuto and can fill the party in on his personality and childhood probably more than even Ameiko. 2. In my game, the midwife Hannah Velerin was there to deliver Nualia's stillborn monster baby. Of course, unless there is very extenuating circumstances (ie. an imminent goblin raid masterminded by Nualia herself) Hannah takes the discretion of her clients extremely seriously. She'd need some convincing evidence in order to break her confidence. Additionally, Shalelu is a great way to instruct a party of new players on pathfinder tactics and combat strategy. In my game Shalelu shows up during the Ripnugget fight to help them, though she's mainly there to confront the bugbear Bruthazmus. She can explain things like exploiting initiative order with delayed and readied actions, positioning, battlefield control, focusing on one enemy at a time, etc. She can urge players who are reluctant to use daily powers not to hold back, and generally instruct the party that neutralizing enemies fast is the best way to keep your party healthy.

[@cometthelegendary6074]

This was very good, I took several things from this and applied them to my campagn. Love the slide shows. I can't wait to re do the Glassworks building. Goblin Ambushs are the best with improvised weapons made of glass

[@Coid]

With regards to Ameiko, what are some of those instances where you wish you had used her more or more fully?

[@ThirdAction]

In my first run, Ameiko was a lot more directly involved in the party's adventuring, joining them on many of their excursions, writing to them more frequently, and just generally interacting with them. She and Shalelu were kind of the team's backup NPCs the whole game, and I felt like they bonded with her a lot more. This last time around, Shalelu sorta took that role on by herself, and I just didn't take as many opportunities to have Ameiko just chill with the party more. It's nothing major, but I just have a lot of affinity for her as a character, so I felt bad for not really giving her as much spotlight as I felt like I could have.

[@johngonianakis2800]

Great video, Im currently running RotR (albeit in 1e) and my players are close to finishing book 1. Your GM tips series will definitely be an asset for the rest of the AP. One thing I want to point out, is the impact the GM's way of handling level ups has. A lot of people usually allow their players to level up after the session, or only after resting, but in book 1 where the players need to get to level 3 as soon as possible, enforcing something like that kills the pace while they're exploring the catacombs or thistletop. I'm not sure if PF2e has this issue, but it's something to consider, lest you have your players' characters miss all their hits on a 24 AC Erylium

[@ThirdAction]

This is a very good point that I didn't really mention, yeah. Sometimes, I feel like APs expect that the party will run home, rest, and level up as soon as they get enough EXP--even if it really doesn't make sense for the plot, lol. Planning for the occasional mid-session or mid-adventuring-day level up can definitely smooth out some of those boss encounters. If you go for a mid-session level, I try to warn players ahead of time so that they know what they're picking (or else be okay with spending the rest of the session waiting for people to browse the books/AoN).

[@mobewee]

About to start a 5e playthrough, reskinning the sins as elements to fit my world. But this series has been SO helpful!

[@breadtoaster1408]

For anyone watching, at Thistletop, the lore behind malfeshnekor and a shrine to lamashtu being there is JUST before earthfall, karzoug had captured malfeshnekor from alaznist and was about to interrogate it when earthfall happened and malfeshnekor's influence attracted goblins and he was able to psychically empathize and somewhat commune with the goblins

[@apollorosewill427]

hey just getting started to play, ive looked into 2nd edition and honestly is it that big a deal to stick with 1st edition? It seems this video focuses on 2nd edition and implies its what you "should" be playing but none of my players know it and i dont have any 2nd edition material. Is it that big of a deal to just run it 1st edition?

[@ThirdAction]

Nope, not a big deal at all! I've run it in both 1e and 2e, and I loved it both times. I mention a lot of 2e-specific adjustment advice in these videos mainly because it's what I most recently ran it in (so it's very fresh in my memory) and because there aren't a ton of 2e-specific resources for this adventure lying around. Plus, if you're using the Anniversary Edition, most of the stat blocks, treasure allotment, etc will just work for 1e as-is. As far as personal system preference goes, 2e is absolutely primary system nowadays for a variety of reasons, but I do still love 1e (and Starfinder!). If your group is having fun in 1e, I see no reason to force a switch or anything. :D

[@TheSpiritus0]

I'm not understanding how the book puts it so could you clear this up for me, after interrogating Tsuto what is the party's motive for going to the catacombs? Why are they here? Is it essential? And how do they know to go there.

[@ThirdAction]

The catacombs themselves are largely an optional curiosity, but they have some interesting story relevance and foreshadowing scattered throughout. The major plot points being: first appearance of anything runelord/Thassilon related, the only time the party will ever actually see and interact with a runewell (until the final boss battle), the Lamashtu shrine and its connection to Nualia, and foreshadowing for Book 4's sinkhole and the encounter with the Scribbler (the fight with his familiar, Erylium, the writing on the walls in some rooms, the collapsed stairs, etc). You're right that there's not a lot of explicit motivation given to the party for this one, though. The book kinda just assumes the party will see an unexplored area and want to slurp up all the EXP. Or, more altruistically, they might notice that there's a lot of dangerous stuff down there in very close proximity to the town that should probably get cleared out. This worked for both of my last two parties, but if your group isn't naturally curious about the catacombs after discovering them, there's a few different ways to make this part more mandatory: 1) If they actually interrogated Tsuto, he should reveal that he was working with Erylium to create sinspawn in the runewell for the upcoming assault on Sandpoint. 2) If they haven't gotten to Ameiko yet, Ameiko could have been imprisoned in the catacombs, tied up in the runewell room, instead of just being on the ground floor. 3) If they haven't gotten to Tsuto yet, just have him flee right away into the catacombs to team up with the quasit. 4) If the party has already dealt with Tsuto and Ameiko and doesn't want to go ot the catacombs, start having daily/nightly sinspawn attacks or important character kidnappings with tracks that lead the players back to the catacombs. 5) Have Sheriff Hemlock or Mayor Deverin request a more thorough investigation. If they hear about weird tunnels underneath the city, they are going to want to make sure there's nothing dangerous going on down there.

[@TheSpiritus0]

@@ThirdAction Thank you for clearing that up. I've been racking my head about why the party doesn't just leave because the book just rolls right into the catacombs like the party spawns in.

[@Chucklzzz]

With the Lamashtu aspect, yeah, Lamashtu is linked to Alaznist. It's not really said if Karzoug worshiped any Gods or Demons or anything (Keep in mind I'm only entering Chapter 3 of the book, so I don't really know what the other chapters say, but from the research I've done I've not seen anything.) Consequently, due to Alaznist and Karzoug being at war with each other for ages, I've taken it that as the Runewell activated, it activated not only the minor wells of greed but also the minor wells of wrath, and likely all other wells as well. This alerted Lamashtu that not only may Karzoug return, but the potential for Alaznist to return is also present. Due to the adventure path 'Return of the Runelords' I figure that Lamashtu is racing against Karzoug to try and resurrect Alanist before Karzoug. So I have it where like, Aldern is trying to sacrifice for greed to return Karzoug, but then Nualia is sacrificing for wrath to bring Alaznist back. My PCs killed Nualia, and brought her remains back to Sandpoint for burial. Before Chapter 2, I had a storm hit Sandpoint, and during the storm, Nualia's tomb is broke with lightning, and in the morning, her corpse is missing. I've had Lamashtu twist Nualia's soul into a demon, and bring her back. So currently, the PCs have forged a careful alliance with a Gallu Demon (Sacrificing goblins for Wrath) to help them stop Aldern, knowing that in doing so they are helping Lamashtu and Nualia, but it's created some very interesting dynamics and plot points. The Gallu demon is obviously going to betray them, but the PCs are curious just to how much they can get from him, before they need to kill him.

[@TheKodiak72]

1:57:46 "everyone loves to capture thier first goblin pet, its just a thing" .... My party, captures a goblin for info on thistletop and after some info is extracted.. Ehh its just a goblin.. Kill it.

[@Chucklzzz]

When I ran the Tusto area, I had Shalelu there to help. She had come back, given the news about the Goblin Tribes, but then when Ameiko went missing she said to the PCs "Help me find Ameiko, and I'll show you the way to Thistletop and help you wipe them out." So they agreed. They found Tsuto and beat him down. They were going to interrogate him, and tried to grapple him, pin him and then tie him up. Unfortunately, they didn't communicate this in game, so Shalelu had no idea what the plan was. Tsuto broke out of the grapple before they could pin him, and decided to make a run for it. As he ran, Shalelu scored a crit with her bow and obliterated him. The PCs stood there like...what the fuck! Shalelu was like, "What? He was getting away!" The PCs all reluctantly conceded that they hadn't included Shalelu in their meta game plans, and they learned their lesson. Now, they make sure to communicate with all my NPCs that assist them. (Additionally, as I was preparing the campaign, I saw details about Deverin Hosk, and how he has like, pickled goblins as trophies. I decided to make him like Goblin Slayer Parody, absolutely obsessed with killing goblins. A mad man. The PCs love him. They've used him like "Help us with this, and then we'll go with you to kill the Licktoad Tribe." They bribe him with killing goblins to get his help. XD So much fun.)

[@phobiawitch835]

Giving a listen because I’m actually wanting to convert this adventure to Dnd5e as I am more comfortable DMing for that system. Plus I was actually a player in a Runelord game but a LOT of part 2 of the adventure was Glossed Over. The Boar Hunt was just done narratively without anything real happening, the situation with Ven and his daughter was… played very weirdly and in a way that I may adjust a little while also nearly derailing the game even without it being a murder, and we did have an encounter in the graveyard. Book 1 was just, very weirdly paced for my time as a player, rushing it so we didn’t really get to explore a lot of the town and make any real connections. It definitely made things weird cuz not evej halfway into book 1, most of the group had no real reason to care about Sandpoint itself and in some cases during book 2, even were public nuisances. There’s a lot of great advice in this video so far, and I’ll definitely have to use it while making notes and working on the conversions.