Robert Mathieson - Is 'Concert' Bagpipe Pitch Inevitable?

[@Marcblur]

The way it's been going the past few years, I wouldn't be surprised to see bands at B natural (493.88hz).

[@Rustygulley-r3r]

466 is better for piobaireachd too. The bottom hand movement are diminished at a higher pitch.

[@maximilianbeck1429]

Here's an argument against universal concert pitch because I've never heard one so far in that discussion. I'll have to go further back for this one: Most instruments are designed for playing close to equal temperament. That's especially true for harmonic instruments that have to be able to play chords in any key. However, this also applies to wind instruments. In an orchestral context this makes sense as the common temperament is dictated by the least flexible instruments, e.g. the piano, any kind of xylophone, harp or guitar. It is also quite reasonable to play near equal temperament because we're just more used to it from our contemporary and everyday music. Surely there's always considerable effort going into intonation to get the right harmonics out of each section, each bar and beat. But there are of course limits. Adjusting the pitch of a note on a flute using your embouchure gets awkward pretty quickly (e.g. after 10-20 cents) and very hard soon beyond that. Generally speaking, intonation varies greatly in difficulty and for every single note and for every instrument, if it is possible at all. Most pipers really underestimate how far their instrument is from equal temperament and what an advanced concept intonation really is for the average (amateur) musician. Let's say you're playing an orchestral chanter that's perfectly tuned to just intonation. Low G for example will be some 30 cents off equal temperament. It'll sound just awful with an equally tempered G (sharp). If you're playing in a combo with a guitar or a piano, someone still has to adjust their instrument heavily. And while wind instruments are able to adjust to your wicked scale to some degree, it's not going to be a trivial task that any amateur musician can do. There are some great bands out there that are playing in combos with all kinds of instruments next to the pipes and it's working absolutely fine. It's only my wild guess but I think that they're either messing with their electric pianos or tuning their chanters to equal temperament (while possibly stopping their drones to avoid dissonance). So tuning your pipes to orchestral pitch will bring your fundamental notes in tune with any other instrument, the rest of the scale keeps sounding outlandish next to other instruments. In the best case you'll be able to tune and play your pipes as always while the other musicians have to do some pretty wild stuff to get some kind of pleasant sound out of your group. In the worst case you'll have to decide if your piano player has to do something about his D, D sharp, G, G sharp, ... or if you're fine with retuning your chanter to equal temperament (which totally defies the main argument for orchestral chanters). On a personal note: I do prefer the sharper pitches for pipe bands, albeit not necessarily the crazy sharp pitches. For me there's definitely a tonal difference which is not just the difference in pitch but also the way the harmonics interact with each other. To conclude: Universal orchestral pitch is just one half of a solution. I personally prefer sticking to the status quo with specialized chanters for each purpose (because you need them anyway) instead of adapting half a solution for everything.

[@davidshedden3578]

Tuning temperament is not an argument against all pipers tuning to Bb relative to A=440. Tuning any chanter to equal temperament is very doable and is done all the time by lots of trad/folk bands. The concept of tuning is such a rabbit hole and the more you understand about tuning (tuning as in Intonation - not tuning as in pitch) the more you realise how vast the topic is and how tuning is a series of compromises. Pipers who think they have worked out the tuning thing tend to think that there is tuning to the drones (Just intonation) and Equal temperament. But there's so much more than that. There are so many differences in where you can choose to tune notes - and so many tunings that would sound acceptable. Top pipe bands tune their chanters differently to top soloists - Pipe bands often make decisions based on tuning that are sometimes conscious and unconscious, often to allow for harmonies. Also, intonation and preference changes from band to band and from soloist to soloist. The differences will be minute but they are still there. And if you look back a few decades you'll hear that a sharp D was a thing - not to my taste, but it was to some at the time. When I get together will other professional pipers (meaning no disrespect and for lack of a better term) to play in Bb the first thing we talk about is where we are tuning chanters - not the pitch, the pitch is set - the discussion is about intonation based on whether we are playing with mixed instrumentation or not. I have 3 Bb chanters set up. A 'nice' chanter tuned to drones, A Equal temperament chanter tuned to a korg tuner, and a 'Cold' chanter tuned sharp for playing in cold conditions. The nice chanter and the ET chanter never stay purely 'nice' or ET because compromises are always made. I think one of the biggest benefits that no one has mentioned is this... It's not just going to enable pipers to play with mixed instrumentation - it's going to allow pipers to play with other pipers. Simple as that. Do you want to have a tune with me 'oh sorry I only have my band chanter and my pipe major will kill me if I move the reed to play with you'. That's no fun. Another thing on the flip side - but not necessarily an argument against - is that Bb products are often an afterthought. Drone extenders are AWFUL. Like really really bad. Most "long" Bb drone reeds aren't great mainly because not many folk actually care. (Most) Bb chanter reeds are just normal reeds that turned out a little flatter and no one is too sure why so are stamped Bb. Over the last few years things have gotten way better. But I think the most exciting things to come out of piping in the next few year will be Bb products that are reliable and sound great. To be honest Bb should be the standard for pipes. And we should all have a second set of pipes set up in A. Because A is so much easier for everyone else. But NONE of the major bagpipe makers make highlands in A. Which is crazy. When most people play highland pipes in Bb with a fiddle player, the fiddle player tunes up a semitone. Didn't mean to get so rant. And I'm not having a go, just replied so that the two comments were kept together. The main point on tuning temperament is that it's not an argument against standardised pitch, because compromises and decisions around tuning exist at whatever pitch you choose to set your low A. And tuning systems/temperaments/compromises are all something that professional players are already aware of and use. At the end of the day, if the top 3 bands decided to play in Bb just watch everyone fall over themselves to match it.

[@RayMainBagpiper]

I've got a set of Chinese plastic bagpipes, the drones pitch so low, I'm currently working on taping a low chanter down to match, I'm close, but Maan ! the energy !! I'm a mediocre piper at best.

[@RayMainBagpiper]

The good thing .... is.... bagpiping is becoming more mainstream !!!

[@johnnymcdougall6127]

Mathieson is God of Pipe Band Music! 👌