ROBOT LEVER ESPRESSO - Meticulous - SCA Expo 2024

[@eeyernng7260]

Some great questions asked here. Well done man. Subscribed :)

[@onocoffee]

Thanks! I'm glad you enjoyed the questions and welcome to the group!

[@antonc81]

Not sure if Carlos mentioned it in this video but the scale hardware is sourced from acaia - who are pretty much the market leaders in coffee scales.

[@onocoffee]

We didn't really get into the scale in the video. I think he mentioned that it's an Acaia scale. If it's not in the video then it's something he mentioned when the camera wasn't rolling. Should be good stuff!

[@Danbarb-r1p]

A few things would be interesting, how much electricity it takes because here in europe the prices getting insane. Also a key question for me, what materials getting in touch with the water because aluminium is bad for health. Will it be service stations or stores that repair that thing over time, for example what if the temperature sensors loose calibration over time? What about the descaling, does it need to be descaled or cleaned like a normal espresso machine? What about the internal mechanics, is the piston works with oil pressure or air pressure or how it can move up and down and how is it maintained over time?

[@onocoffee]

These are good questions. Unfortunately, I don't necessarily have the answers. As far as descaling, I think it would be similar to descaling a Flair 58 because of the nature of the system - you add water per pull.

[@ericbrady]

Great interview Jay! Greetings from San Miguel de Allende. I think the Meticulous espresso will be a game changer and is able to make a shot as well or better than machines costing many times more. The electronics and motors inside monitor pressure, temperature etc 100s of times per second and makes the programmed changes accordingly. I’m an early backer, below #200. Jealous you got to meet Carlos… of course I would enjoy meeting you too!

[@onocoffee]

Glad you enjoyed it, Eric!

[@maheshprabhu]

Not sure how you haven't heard of Meticulous, plenty of videos of it around aon KZbin pulling a shot.

[@onocoffee]

While the Meticulous has been quite the talk in the enthusiast (and coffee KZbinr) space, it's not front and center in the professional spaces where I work. Our focus is mostly on the current range of professional equipment (La Marzocco, Compak, Kees, etc), as well as aspects of operation, service and sourcing. This means that the home market is always a bit of catch-up for me. Thanks for watching!

[@MadScientist7]

Very good interview and info…best I have probably seen to date but still no final version at the show…I wonder what Carlos means by “not enough prototypes of the final version “. Why would the final version still be a prototype? That’s why I find it difficult to believe they will be mass producing in 1-1.5 months like he said. Should start mass production sometime in May then, time will tell

[@rodrigoibarra2054]

So they have 20 machines that are considered final prototypes, which means they were produced at the factories that will do the mass production, those 20 machines, are being currently used for final QA, demos, certifications and shipping testing, that is what he meant by that, as soon as certification is done, mass production should begin.

[@smtesta]

The magic of a lever machine, to me, is how tactile it is, not just from a ritualistic perspective, but more so, from the perspective of being able to adjust the pressure depending on how the shot is looking. It does not seem the robot could adjust or pivot based on how the shot is progressing. That said, a pump espresso machine cannot really be controlled like a lever machine. It seems this Meticulous is basically an automated and programmable piston machine.

[@onocoffee]

I get what you're saying and I wonder now if the programming of the Meticulous can allow for on-the-fly variations to the shot pressure.

[@Drift-yf4rn]

It can adjust for sure, that's what the profiles are for. As for pivoting, it depends what you mean, it's obviously not on a whim going to decide you actually want a slow preinfusion after you activated a profile to yeet it

[@smtesta]

I guess the thing I found confusing is the “lever” part. It’s a piston, right? The pivoting I was referring to is based on watching how the shot progresses. If a shot is going to fast, due to the grind being to coarse, I can slow my flow on a lever machine. Or if the shot starts to appear uneven, I can wait until everything is completely infused before finishing extraction. For me, pulling (literally) a shot on a lever machine has a kinesthetic feedback that I would not want automated. The meticulous machine, however, probably stands on its own as a highly programmable piston espresso machine. In some ways, it’s a new category of machine and should not try to be something else. It should not be compared to a lever, in my opinion.

[@Drift-yf4rn]

@@smtesta well it lets you do lever style shots, since it's not a pump machine and is extracting the same way a lever would. I use a flair 58 at the moment, and this is pretty much that, with repeatability. You can manually pull the shot by using the knob to adjust pressure as it pulls, but yeah you still won't get the same feedback you do from a lever. You're basically trading out that manual intuition for repeatability and precision. Edit: think of this as more of a competitor to the Decent

[@MrBahBZ]

Never knew Mimoja was trans.

[@onocoffee]

It didn't even occur to me! She was very helpful at the show.

[@dereckh]

20 minutes and they don't make a single espresso?

[@onocoffee]

Over the 23 years I've been in the business, I find that coffee on the trade show floor whether as a tasting or demos of machines provide sub-optimal results and don't really reflect the real-world use - like in this video, I wasn't interested in seeing them pull shots. I was more interested in learning more about Carlos the owner and his vision of the machine. They certainly had lots of people pulling shots all around us.

[@ilkzode1822]

Good lord, this isnt a lever. Its automated to be a somewhat cheaper alternative to the Decent. The whole nostalgia about lever espresso is the tactile expression. The joy of manually pulling and adjusting , just the physical nature. Why have coffee nerds emphasize a robotics mentality. This (4th wave) movement is bogus and insulting

[@onocoffee]

I don't know I would agree that 4th wave is necessarily "bogus and insulting" but I'm glad to see that there's a return to interest in espresso preparation after so many years of focusing on bright, high acid pour overs!

[@cardansan]

Why isn't this a lever? Because it doesn't look like one? 🤔

[@MrBahBZ]

Mechanically, it is identical to a lever. A better understanding of physics would allow you to comprehend that the presence of a handle isn't what makes it a lever, it's the motive power of a piston displacing a non-compressible fluid through a porous body, with dependent variables like flow rate all being adjusted on the fly. You want the tactile sensation of having your hand push a lever, and that's fine, but this system will have greater control over every variable that is given by a handle-based machine instead of a pump.

[@JohnSmith-zy1ur]

@@MrBahBZ exactly

[@Danbarb-r1p]

no, for me the nostalgia is not a valid point, i would prefer this machine over a normal porta filter machine because of several points. It has a small and nice shape, it dont have a water tank that needs to be cleaned and water has to go through pipes and tubes etc. So its alot simpler. You dont need to descale or backflush it which is a big point for me. Since it dont has a water tank, it only heats only a small amount of water for a single person which is nice and prices for electricity is high here in germany. Thge machine is silent which is very nice compared to a regular machine. It dont uses copper pipes and i hope no aluminium parts which can get in contact with water, this way it is healthy and because no water tanks or pipes its hygienic over time. I also think this concept dont need to be repaired or maintainanced much because its simple, no boiler, pumps, vents, etc. It also dont has steam which is actually nice as well because i bought the Dreo Barista Maker device and it makes amazing latte art foam for under 100 Euro. Such a nice device for great and constant perfect latte art foam, no need for steam on a portra filter machine anymore, another great point to keep the espresso machine simple. You can even buy a electric water heater for the kitchen to pre heat the water for the espresso machine if that fails you can throw it away and buy a new one, so this espresso machine is a very nice solution for cheap maintainance costs in the future i think. It has all the benefits of a lever machine but you dont need to press it down by hand, so its super nice.