Rockered 5x80 Dragon frame review: turning freeskaters into Wizards

[@ThirtyandRollin]

Bravo dude! Amazing review of the new frames. Makes me wonder how much more stable that V.m progressive rocker is on these new Dragons compared to the first gen. The first gen Dragons were a bit of a teetertotter experience which is really great for wizard skating but not so much for distance and urban. Also thanks for the shout out!

[@NazarOnWheels]

Thanks! Yes, I believe it is quite more stable than the one you have, especially after a few sessions. As you saw at 10:41 I was rolling quite fast and it was perfectly stable when staying on those 3 wheels in the centre. I would imagine something similar to happen also with the V rocker, but it would simply take more time to reach that point.

[@benjiblading2548]

@@NazarOnWheels the V rocker would wear down to a similar vm rocker after two sessions or so

[@NazarOnWheels]

@@benjiblading2548 I'm not really sure about that. Just from the basic logics, the wheels 2/4 are closer to 1/5 in the V rocker, and considering that during normal skating the central wheels are consumed faster, once you reach the same height difference between wheels 2-3-4 as in V.m rocker, the wheels 1/5 will be closer to them, so I would expect it to be less manoeuvrable when you lean to the front/back once it reaches the stability in the centre as the V.m. But I think it's certain that after 20 sessions they will indeed become identical :)

[@benjiblading2548]

@@NazarOnWheels a figured with the original V rocker, once the center wheel wears down a millimeter or so the frame would have four rocker positions

[@CanadaBladers]

Excellent equipment review. Looking forward to see the more technical ones.

[@NazarOnWheels]

Will start as soon as possible. Skating during the lockdown is not particularly easy now, so it's a good time for just talking 🙂

[@StreetBladerBloke]

Since i have moved to Roka 5 x 76 my skating addiction has increased to another level..skating daily now. It is progressive rocker

[@LuskeyBowser]

Your analyses on the wheel-wear at about 10:40 is spot on to something I haven't seen addressed much... So the only way to keep that pronounced rocker feeling would be to constantly rotate your wheels? This is an important consideration when buying this setup as the rocker feel can quickly - somewhat- disappear.... THANKS HOMEY

[@NazarOnWheels]

Thanks for the comment. Yes, I think rotating the wheels is the most convenient solution, and if you skate a lot, you might need to do it pretty often. But if you’re going to use them primarilu on some very smooth floor that won’t feel uncomfortable with harder wheels, you can just use some harder urethane that will wear out much slower, keeping the rocker for a longer time.

[@LuskeyBowser]

@@NazarOnWheels great suggestion

[@AlmostLakai94]

Just for possible future reference for a noob lol. Would a solid rotation be swapping 1 x 5 and 2 x 4 then just swap both middle wheels? I've been learning about these frames and never even considered this part 😂

[@rey-ke5ls]

Davvero un bel reportage che spiega un po' d cosucce che nessun altro dice Iscritto👍🏽

[@revolutionunderground]

I've been looking at frames like this, so thanks for the info!

[@nigelbrown2274]

thanks for the review. I watched your last videos, and bought the NN 4x100mm VM rocker!!

[@NazarOnWheels]

You're welcome! That's probably a good choice. Should be even better than mine.

[@nigelbrown2274]

@@NazarOnWheels thanks.... I'm not as good as you on skates! I'm waiting for new wheels - then practice!!

[@chrischadwick1]

Great insights man. Your lighting, background and audio also on point 👌

[@NazarOnWheels]

Thanks man!

[@mikeczech7011]

Thank you so much for this incredibly helpful video!!

[@penguins0392]

Great video● I really liked how you covered everything

[@lukebreis]

I Nazar, many compliments for your review, I started to skate INLINE about 2 years and half ago. I am from Milan, it's 'from many time I would like to try wizard or NN frame 5x80. I have a pair of seba FR1. It will be a pleasure to skate togheter in future. Great video!!!

[@NazarOnWheels]

Thanks! Sure, would be a pleasure to meet in Milan once it becomes possible. Write me on Instagram: @nazaronwheels It's easier to keep in touch there...

[@lukebreis]

@@NazarOnWheels ok! I don't have a true Instagram profile, It's without any pics it's sleeper for a future skate project.. Anyway I will write you my phone number so could stay in touch by whattsapp

[@SaccoBelmonte]

I would love if you try 4x80 rockered and see if you can still do wizard spins easily and describe the differences you feel. It is hard to compare 4x100 vs 5x80 because the wheels are much far apart from each other on the 4x100 making spins harder, but 4x80 and 5x80 have the same wheel separation. The fact one wheel is in the middle in the 5x80 also intrigues me and I wonder if it really makes a difference.

[@CTSFITNESS1]

Thank you for the review!!! Subscribed! Found you on Instagram, too! I’m trying to decide between the V and V.m for the 5x80 setup.

[@NazarOnWheels]

Thanks! I’m glad it was useful

[@CTSFITNESS1]

@@NazarOnWheels I ended up going with the 5 x 80 v.m...then the 4 x 90 v.m, and now also the 4 x 100 v.m 😅

[@NazarOnWheels]

@@CTSFITNESS1 that’s a hell of a collection 👍🏼 And what’s your favorite?

[@CTSFITNESS1]

@@NazarOnWheels Thanks! I’m addicted😄 I really like the 5 x 80. I feel really stable in the back as I’m learning movements. I just got the 4 x 90 today and I only got a few minutes on it, but I like how nimble it feels! So then I ordered the 4 x 100 today lol I’m only skating in my basement space inside as the weather in my area is messy, so my experience is limited. And I’m so new to all of this! I’ll report back! I appreciate all of your videos and posts on Instagram!

[@shellybvex3358]

Hi .It's a very interesting review video. Especially when it comes to how the wheel is reduced.I can't buy a "VM" right away, so I'll try it at the setting of "76.80.80.80.80.76" for a while, but I feel almost the same as the feeling you felt on my "NN dragon V"

[@NazarOnWheels]

I think another interesting combination on that V rocker would be 80.80.78.80.80, if you can find the 78mm wheels.

[@shellybvex3358]

@@NazarOnWheels It looks like it's going to be a similar move if you set up the Monkey Block.I've already purchased the monkey block, but I haven't used it yet. Or is it better to be more straight?Either way, I'll try it once.

[@NazarOnWheels]

@@shellybvex3358 I think the 78mm wheel in the centre would still be very slightly lower than the two neighboring 80mm wheels, so it should feel more maneuverable. Plus you have to take into account that wheels are flexible, so even if they were aligned in a straight line, the urethane compresses under your weight, effectively making one of the wheels smaller. Instead the hole in the middle would make them feel like on rails

[@shellybvex3358]

@@NazarOnWheels I see, you are thinking about it a lot.After all, the wheel is shaved more and more,i will try few setups "76 80 78 80 76 " is i think to my set up .

[@cerenademe9433]

Thanks for this very helpful review. I really wish they would make a 5x76 or even 5x72 setup - so that people with smaller feet might be more inclined to try these out. My feet being pretty small (23.0mm), I just can't see being able to handle 5x80, even though it's rockered. :/ Anyway - keep the awesome vids coming! :)

[@RollingSwiss]

They got a 5x76mm frame

[@RichHayterSkater]

Nice detail in this review Dude! It’s not personally my style, but I always like to keep an open mind. You skate this style really well. Congrats on 700 too!🙌

[@NazarOnWheels]

Yeah, thanks! Just passed 700 yesterday 🙂 And you have skyrocketed recently, haven’t you? 😁

[@RichHayterSkater]

Yeah, that virtual skate with Bill gave me a boost!🙏

[@NazarOnWheels]

@@RichHayterSkater Keep the momentum! 💪🏼 And about the Wizard style, it’s indeed veery different from the brutal hockey-like skating, but it is very satisfying, so you seriously should try it some day. 🙂

[@RichHayterSkater]

Yeah, Man, I’m gonna try! It looks like it’d be amazing to just stick in some headphones and bust out some wizard moves.

[@Katerman007]

Hi Nazar, I have made the Vm rocker at my NN100 just by changing the wheels after breaking in the wheels. I switch the smallest it was 4th with the second smallest wheel on position 1. Really different to fresh wheels.

[@NazarOnWheels]

Yes, I can imagine. In my Ronins I have the regular V rocker but even there now the 1st wheel is smaller than the 2nd, so a slight rocker appears there anyway after a while, but I guess it’s still bigger in V.m

[@Katerman007]

@@NazarOnWheels Hmm Bill said its not really a big difference and for me it worked really good. the 4. wheel was actually 1,5-2 mm smaller so round about 1mm more rocker. Maby try a old wheel with more than 2 mm less at position 1.

[@NazarOnWheels]

@@Katerman007 Yes, I could try that. Maybe it’s because I was using my Ronins mostly for freeskating and not that much for Wizard lately, but now the rocker seems even smaller than with new wheels. You can see how tiny it is on the last photo here: instagram.com/p/CHvghRojXQ1/ So yes, swapping wheels 1 and 3 should definitely make it more maneuverable

[@UlfWolf_Skater]

Thanks for this great review! I’ll get my frames next week and I’m quite curious how they feel!

[@NazarOnWheels]

Also with the V.m rocker?

[@UlfWolf_Skater]

@@NazarOnWheels sorry, forgot to mention: yes, m.V. Rocker was the impulse to buy the frame. Doesn’t mean that I’m not happy with the Ronin or Endless. 😉 kinda like to experiment!😎 Looking forward watching your technical elaborations!

[@jiakin991]

Great review! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[@NazarOnWheels]

Thanks!

[@kristofdelint-wouters1980]

Great review. Thanks. I'm happy to see how NN Skates and Endless Blading Co. create a way to enjoy wizard skating on a cheaper budget and with 165mm mount boots. I would prefer Endless over NN frames though, mainly because aesthetically Endless looks 10 times better in my opinion. But people who want the 5x80 have to get either the expensive Wizard PR80 or the cheaper NN Dragons. I hope Endless will release a 5-wheel frame as well. And I'm really glad NN made things right with their newer ".m" rockers. I view the first V-rocker as an incredible fucked up / miscalculated attempt to create a rocker.

[@NazarOnWheels]

Thanks. I can't say about the V rocker on the Dragons, since I only have the one with V.m, and that one feels great, but I imagine that having that sharp transition in a 5-wheel frame might not feel great. The Ronins (4x100) I have with the V rocker, and it felt pretty good for freeskating. Then again, I'm sure that V.m Ronins are more manoeuvrable, making them better for Wizard.

[@rizkiputraprima5168]

nice review man, do you have any tutorial on how to rotate wheels in 5x80 wizard style frame? thank you

[@NazarOnWheels]

I don't have a tutorial. But what worked decently for me was just shifting all the wheels forward by one, and placing the first wheel at the rear end. And of course swapping in place if the profile became too asymmetric. In this case the rocker is still smaller than with new wheels, but larger than without rotation, while still feeling comfortable.

[@jayhathaway4720]

great content!

[@NazarOnWheels]

Thanks! 🙌🏼

[@wardkurisu]

Great indepth review and interesting point regarding the extra height int the frames to achieve compability with all 165mm frame mounts. I also have an FR1 boot, so i was wondering, with that added height, do you think we could fit 3x 110mm or even 125mm in there?

[@NazarOnWheels]

Of course you can. If you check online shops selling FR1 skates, you'll see also 3x110 and 3x125 setups.

[@herbert4851]

Very comprehensive review, thanks so much. When you say after some time the rockered set up is worn a bit and thus making it more stable for jumps and speed, do you find it more difficult to pivot for wizard skating? Seriously considering this Dragon frame. I’m using Aeon 80 now and yes I hv to force the pivoting and wear the wheels to become ‘natural rocker’. But it doesn’t last long, as the wheels are getting smaller. Which boot would you recommend to get for this 5 wheel set up, if I want to focus more on wizard moves and urban skating with some jumps and stair ride, and lots of backward? Not for aggressive. Thanks in advance and cheers from Singapore!

[@NazarOnWheels]

When the wheels wear down, the rocker still remains there, just less pronounced. So it is still perfectly usable for Wizard, just not as much spinning as with new wheels, which is a problem only if you want to do some hardcore combination with a lot of turns. You can watch my last Wizard-skating video where I was skating it with this more stable rocker, and it's still perfectly manoeuvrable: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qF7MhZKsfsp6gbc If you're just starting, then this more stable rocker will be perfect for you, because it needs more muscle control to not overspin. Otherwise you can always rotate the wheels when the rocker becomes too small; it takes only 2 minutes. And the same happens on the Wizard PR frames as well, because it's just physics, you can't prevent it. Concerning the boot, it has to be supportive enough, with sufficiently rigid and high cuff. So I think that FR1-FR3 are probably the best. People using the Twister Edge and some higher-end Flying Eagle boots also seem to be satisfied.

[@xhealmeplease]

Hi Nazar, how would you rotate the wheels on these 5x80 vm dragon frame?

[@NazarOnWheels]

I just moved all wheels forward by 1 position, putting the first wheel at the rear position: 12345 -> 23451 The rocker becomes a bit weaker than with fresh wheels, but much better than with old wheels without rotation. And of course I flip the wheel in place if the profile becomes noticeably asymmetric

[@SerialWheeler]

Thank you for making this, Nazar! Very detailed take on these frames. Most of the surfaces where I live are not the best, so thinking that maybe the Ninja or Ronin might be better for me. For wizard skating though, you are right... these Dragons V.m seem hard to beat considering the price the Wizards have. Are you still preferring these compared to the Ronins?

[@NazarOnWheels]

I have reduced my collection of skates a bit, so I now mostly use two setups: 1. Seba CJ + K2 R100 (UFS 4x100) for a nice gliding flow through city streets; 2. Micro MT Plus + NN Dragon (165mm 5x80) for Wizard skating on a smooth floor. Ronin is certainly a great frame for a 165mm mount, but for the UFS boot I prefer the lower and lighter setup with K2, which works decently for my weight so far. So if you want to have an all-around setup, I think Ronin is the best choice, which I have also reviewed with the V-rocker (not V.m) here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eaiZq2yjZ7-oaZY

[@SerialWheeler]

@@NazarOnWheels I'm facing a similar problems with quite a few skates that have made their way in my collection. I also use 2-3 setups, but I can't bring myself to sell anything other than wheels and protective gear 😂. Thanks for the detailed response! The Kizer Element 90 frame with slight rocker is also on my radar 🧐

[@PatenHareketleri]

Thank you.

[@hvdb4492]

Would you mind giving me an idea of a frame with rocker option for when I get better ? I need stability atm

[@SCBCshorts]

Mine came in today

[@eastclintwood7153]

You mentioned the Seba FR mounting plate and its various holes. Is it possible to mount a 195mm speed skate frame on the FR1 Boot?

[@lelloamore3478]

No

[@NazarOnWheels]

Well, technically you can. If you use the 2 outermost holes, they will have 195mm distance. I never used a speed skating frame though, and from what I saw on the Internet, on an FR1 boot the frame would not be properly centered, but shifted back wrt a dedicated speed skating boot. But I'm sure you can find more information about those details...

[@Skatafossy]

Purtroppo non sono disponibili i sottotitoli e ho capito poco :)

[@NazarOnWheels]

Magari dopo faccio traduzione, ma non sono molto bravo con italiano in realtà

[@Skatafossy]

@@NazarOnWheels sei molto bravo a pattinare e spieghi anche bene, sono io che sono una capra e parlo pochissimo inglese :)

[@Giovanni.secret]

www.ebay.it/itm/124421968221

[@jerome9835]

Hi, do you think that it can be mounted on a trinity boot? I guess not?

[@NazarOnWheels]

I don’t think so. There are adapters for mounting Trinity frames to non-Trinity boots, but not vice versa, as far as I know.

[@ПавелСергеевич-й5б]

Всё ради газели?

[@NazarOnWheels]

И не только...

[@freshasadaisy4782]

Unfortunately you didnt provide a single argument why a skater should use a frame with an additional fifth wheel or in other words what is the benefit of using a Fiveskate compared to a Fourskate? Please dont say more frame lenght, bc that is also achievable with four wheels.

[@diminished2nd]

Well, it's obvious. Considering that the 4x would be rockered too, you have 3 wheels vs 4 wheels touching the ground fully at once with the 5x setup. You still have a one wheel pivot point, and the long frame, but should have a better glide with the 5x without sacrificing any maneuverability in turns/carves.

[@freshasadaisy4782]

@@diminished2nd Not really. As he mentioned at 7:20 "you have 2 wheels on the ground at a time" which is also the case with a standard rockered 4x setup.

[@ThirtyandRollin]

More frame length with a lower ride height and for the OG Dragon frame the pivot point is right under the center of your foot.

[@freshasadaisy4782]

@@ThirtyandRollin Frame lenght is not a benefit. A lower ride hight compared to what, a 4x80mm? Not true man. Pivot point under the center is less optimal than more towards the heel as he mentioned in the video.

[@ThirtyandRollin]

@@freshasadaisy4782 Sorry to say but frame length is a benefit depending on your riding style. So long as the frame is still maneuverable. The dragon frame sports an extra long frame and incredible maneuverability. Same or better maneuverability than a flat 4x80 setup. The dragon also sports a lower ride height than compared to a 4x100 with the same frame length. The pivot point is up to the rider. Some enjoy the balanced center pivot and some enjoy it pushed further back. Options are a great thing for our sport.

[@lelloamore3478]

Useless...