Rockstar is not at fault!

[@beyondtheringgaming]

If you are coming here to focus on Rockstar and tell me how battleeye actually works on the Steam Deck. You missed the point. I said in the video that Rockstar was not the focus of this video and is instead an example of a problem with expectations. Yes Rockstar can fix this problem but my point here about how Valve communicates expectations and risks to customers still stands. This has been an issue that has come up multiple times with other games, this is just the biggest example so far. Conversations about competition for Windows are irrelevant to Valve's communication. All that I am advocating for here is a simple disclaimer when a game is verified to state that it being verified does not mean that developers support the steam deck and it could break at any time. And that valve should better educate users on what Proton is and how their Windows games are actually running on SteamOS. That is a simple thing for them to do. We still have Linux gaming, we still have the steam deck, just better educate. Valve created this new platform, that works fundamentally different than most gamers are used too. They have a responsibility to explain this difference to users I don't understand why Valve seems so immune to criticism. Why do we act like this cooperation is our friend? If you have decided to come here just to spew personal attacks, don't waste your time. I will delete your comment.

[@AwwwSnapperz]

Reposting for visibility. Anyone spending $350-700 for device and NOT doing their research is a weird "average user" you keep mentioning. Also anyone who has ordered a steam deck has a steam account, runs seam application and a pc gamer unless you have some 0.0001% of users with a steam account no games and orders a steam deck. As stated in the video you posted 6:30 (Steam Deck: Introducing Deck Verified) you can see the list of games valve verified you can compare the valve list vs your game library. 7:10 they explain steam os, compatibility, verification and loss of verification through updates. You are complaining they didnt say anything when they did, then complain they didnt say it faster? The info is there, you even show it. This is like complaining about buying a ps5 and not having pokemon. Either your "average consumer" can't research or have the mental fortitude to get 90 seconds into a video explaining what they are buying. Said video is 150 seconds long. The deck has been out for 31 months at this point this isn't a secret or new information. They evaluate the game as is, reach out to dev, if dev doesnt respond they post their findings. The Dev and any point can do something or nothing. They dont have to support anything. The only thing they lose is potential customers who run certain hardware. It's no different if they ran an update that broke compatibility with and chose not to do anything. Some studios have folded and there will be zero input from them but their games still work on "unsupported hardware" 7:44 " a games rating can change over time...." right there...They were upfront. Your average consumer will look at 2 things. Does it work or does it not work, Verified or not. Do you seriously think they care if the studio or valve got it working? You want to introduce a confusing "verified by dev", "verified but not supported by dev", but ignore what if the dev later supports it or drops support. them multiply it by 100k games on steam..... But you missed the most important part of that video "no matter the rating, you'll always have the option to run whatever you want on steam deck. After all, it's your deck" You want linux...windows it's your machine. Run whatever you want or are capable of running.

[@beyondtheringgaming]

I wasn’t going to respond but since you decided to post to my pinned comment for “visibility” guess I will. Because I am frankly tired of repeating myself. Since apparently Valve is immune to any criticism and can do no wrong. While I agree that consumers should do their research the problem is that the steam deck doesn’t properly inform users that there is information they really need to research. It is not absurd that if your told that your Steam library works and that it is a PC that you would just expect that games run without needing to look further. Even if you do look at the pages for the Steam deck valve is not going into any reasonable detail on this. > you can see the list of games valve verified Yes you can. I acknowledge that. But there is no information there about why or how. Regarding your comment at 7:10. I can’t double check right now but I don’t think they ever state any loss of validation. My problem is the very brief comments they made don’t really explain what is going on here. Most of that video implies that any compatibility issues are related to the form factor with a couple brief comments with no additional details regarding the OS and again WHY a game may not be compatible with it. We are dealing with a situation right now where a game broke on the Steam deck. If you had bought the game being told explicitly by valve that the developer does not support running the game in this way, you would have expected that this could happen But Valve does not tell you that. But they should. How is that hard to understand? If you buy a game based on it saying “validated” you should be properly informed if the developer actually supports running on the Steam deck or not since that will impact whether future updates could break the ability to run the game.

[@beanwithbacon]

Wow, a console gamer spending 12 minutes to explain he has zero clue how PC gaming works. Also Valve has actually done a pretty solid job of informing people what will and will not run on the SteamDeck.

[@HighOnDonuts]

Valve has done a horrible job informing people what will and will not run on the steam deck 🤣. Sure they got the idea right but the list is outdated af and 80% of them are incorrect.

[@beanwithbacon]

@@HighOnDonuts I've had like maybe 2 games that were stated to be able to run on the Deck give me issues. Sure some of the more demanding titles take some tweaking, but that's the nature of PC gaming. You can literally filter the search by "deck compatible" I've yet to find a game in that list that doesn't work.

[@HighOnDonuts]

@@beanwithbacon I'm talking about the ungodly amount of titles listed as unsupported that play perfectly fine. The verified list yeah no issue 😂 but the amount of games that work and they say don't work is so big someone had to make a plugin for it so people can get better understandings of how games run on the steam deck.

[@No0o0o0o0o0]

@@HighOnDonuts There is over 100,000 pc titles on steam. There are devs that are out of business, devs that no longer update software , shovelware odd directx or dll version compatibility.. There is no reasonable way to evaluate 100k titles, from publishers, developers, individual updates without locking down software like MS, Nintendo and Sony do. So would you prefer a full list lock out until it gets a Dev and console provider thumbs up or down like the big 3 do or the open approach that we have now? User input like Protondb which has the community contributing to what works with the best version of Proton. But if someone knows how to install decky and use the plugin they are already in he upper echelon of users. everyone else they can stick to the 10's of thousands that are verified or venture out,try it themselves or just do a simple web search " is X compatible with steamdeck" Valve typically evaluates newer releases and slowly goes back in the catalog but as you mentioned plenty of games work without Valve doing anything. There are instances that Valve makes games run better than on windows like when Elden Ring was released. Steam is the largest and best platform for PC games with no close second. The Steam Deck can play more games than any one console in existence so some incompatibilities can be forgiven and as a PC gamer in general we understand not all games work on windows either, updates, drivers, can break games too there is no list that microsoft guarantees for working games either.

[@beyondtheringgaming]

Can you point me to anywhere that Valve is properly educating users about WHY games may not run on the Steam Deck and the risks associated with running a game on an unsupported platform? I sure can't find it.

[@quaddamage]

Rockstar made changes 9 years after the release of the game, so people are in their right to be upset. Secondly: It is possible to use the BattlEye anti-cheat Linux-based devices with Proton. It is up to the developer to contact BattlEye to enable it for their game. BattlEye say themselves “No additional work is required by the developer besides that communication.” And thirdly: In a more positive update, Valve are in contact with Rockstar over the situation. Reddit user notjordansime shared a response they got from Steam support. It claimed “We understand that it is frustrating for the users who purchased this game we are currently working with Rockstar Games to find a fix.”

[@beyondtheringgaming]

I am going to keep saying this, the reason it broke is irrelevant to the conversation. This isn't the first time that a game has broken with an update, just one of the largest examples of this problem. The root of the problem here is how valve communicates expectations to their customers. They are clearly failing at this if you blame the developers for the game breaking on a platform they never said they would support. Even if rockstar fixes this, the problem with Valve still exists.

[@DespyBlitz]

@@beyondtheringgamingValve never said the game is supported on Linux. THEY DID however test the game and it was verified because it works with a comparability layer. It is not for Valve to determine whether a game works or not. If a Deck game is unverified it tells you why. Valve clearly states why the game no longer works, being the anti-cheat.

[@Subie001]

I believe Valve should put a mark beside the "deck verified" that also states the developer is supporting it on the Deck.

[@beyondtheringgaming]

Yes! It should also state the opposite, if a developer never pledged support make it very clear since the developer is likely not going to test updates on the steam deck and any game could end up in a similar situation. Now it is possible to put in "developer comments" next to the status, but that is only if the developer has said anything. We shouldn't assume a lack of saying anything means it is supported.

[@jamesfreeman9049]

The issue with that argument is that the eac has an option to support Linux devices, they just won't have access to the kernel. It goes a bit deeper than just the developers not programming for a platform because that's supposed to be handled by proton wine. People who are using Linux aren't asking for the developers to actively support the game for Linux, just ask that they don't put up roadblocks to prevent it. Remember when halo 2 came out for pc in 2008ish? Can't play it even if you use windows unless you have vista games installed on a vista ran desktop, they put up blocks to keep it from being played when vista went end of service. Just my two cents

[@beyondtheringgaming]

As mentioned in the video, I get that they could make the anticheat work with the steam deck. That is not the point here and is why I am not focusing on rockstar for the majority of this video. This is a problem we have seen with other games that would break in an update. We shouldn't expect a developer to test updates on an unsupported platform. I wouldn't expect them to test the update on my Mac. We also shouldn't expect that if they felt like they needed to do something (the conversation about kernel level cheats is a whole other topic that frankly I agree with, we need to stop doing kernel level crap), that they would not hold back the update for a perceived issue with an unsupported platform from their prospective. To me there are 2 issues here. There is the issue with rockstar which is just the latest example. And there is a clear education problem on Valve's side about what is actually happening on the Steam Deck and who is responsible.

[@jamesfreeman9049]

@@beyondtheringgaming I don't think you read my comment all the way, I said I'm not asking for them to develop for platforms that aren't supported, I'm asking they don't put up roadblocks to prevent it. They have to go out of their way to do that and the Linux community has been managing to work around said roadblocks. Look at games like final fantasy xiv, square enix could set up an anti cheat to prevent the games from running but they chose not to. People are going to cheat, full stop and I get these companies wanting to prevent said cheating but blocking a group who makes up such a small portion of said audience from being able to play just seems odd especially with these higher level anti cheat softwares haven't been shown to be anymore effective at stopping cheaters. They always find a way. Also Mac also has an implementation of proton wine and if steam breaks through and gets wine working on arm devices I have a feeling companies might not be doing this seeing how virtually everyone has a phone and could be extremely profitable if they lean into it.

[@beyondtheringgaming]

I disagree that they have to go out of their way to block linux, at least in this case. This is a case of them just not doing something while focusing on trying to address a different problem. Like I said in another comment what if (for whatever reason) they decided to make their own kernel level anti-cheat. It would work on Windows but they are not actively putting in something to block SteamOS. The effectiveness of anti-cheat is a whole other discussion that to me is just an attempt to change the conversation to something else entirely. I agree that certain developers are doing that and I genuinely don't understand them doing that. But not every case is them going out of their way to block linux gamers. I do also think that we need to acknowledge that we have 2 very different groups of linux gamers now. We have the classic linux gamers when it was far more niche and it took more tinkering to get games working and understands the reality of running games on Linux. And we now have a mainstream device that is not properly educating users on the reality of playing on an unsupported platform when purchasing the device and when purchasing games. Which is my key problem here.

[@jamesfreeman9049]

​ @beyondtheringgaming here's an article on how to enable eac, literally a 1~2 minute setup, they dont need to program. also talking about the people cheating isnt changing the subject when thats an argument that has been used against linux gamers, look at destiny 2 banning people because they dont have windows. addressing the not supported games situation is that the vast majority of these games can run without issue on linux because of how robust proton wine is, of the 200 or so games i have on steam they all work without issue on linux without any modification from me, i would make the argument that it is on the developer from blocking people from playing. looking at when the halo master chief collection came to steam they didnt have support for eac but as soon as epic made a native port of it 343 said screw it lets allow people with linux to run the game for multiplayer, mind you it took them a couple years to do that but they did it. looking at how battle eye works its setup the same way as the eac is setup, i will link to the post valve made about it as well boilingsteam.com/enabling-eac-support-on-linux-now-easier/ store.steampowered.com/news/group/4145017/view/3104663180636096966

[@beyondtheringgaming]

I am going to try to say this another way. I don't care how easy it is to enable eac. I also don't care whether or not anti-cheat is effective. My point here is not focusing on rockstar which I tried (and clearly failed) to be clear about in my video, but using rockstar and this as an example of a broader problem. GTA or any other game could have broken on SteamOS for any reason, and my point with this video still stands. The first is that Rockstar (and many developers) never made a commitment to the Steam Deck. So an update could break it at anytime since they likely didn't test it and we shouldn't expect them too. The second, is that Valve is not properly informing users of that simple fact. Unless the developer has pledged support that "verified" tag could break in a future update. If you bought a game because it was "verified" there is no guarantee that it will remain verified. You are buying a game based on information that Valve is telling you, not the developer and valve is leaving out critical information. They are not informing users about this when you buy the steam deck either.

[@ringmequit]

Spoiler Alert: Rockstar is at fault

[@beyondtheringgaming]

Spoiler: Nope Valve needs to do better about communicating the risks of playing games on an unsupported platform.

[@ricky_pigeon]

@@beyondtheringgaming they do, the game was never verified. the game is a live service. if its not officially supported by the steam deck, which it wasn't. then Steam has no control over what rockstar does because they can't take away the verified tag, valve also can't give a warning because no warning was given by rockstar. and as someone who owns a steam deck, i know the risks when a game isnt supported by the developer and this is why places like proton db exist we people can share their experience about games that are not supported and try to design our own fixes and work arounds. that's why steam has a rating system, if you ignore it, thats your fault, not because it wasn't communicated better to you, its color coded so even rtard could understand it.

[@AllenGuarnes]

​@@beyondtheringgaming If it used to work, and was made to stop working, by Rockstar's own hands then that's Rockstar's fault. There are literally games in Steam Deck where battle eye works. Rockstar could've made it work as well. It's a conscious choice they made. They're not stupid enough to not be aware of that. And you're saying it's not Rockstar at fault?

[@spookyclaws5350]

@@AllenGuarnes Yes. Rockstar straight up said there's no support for Linux. If you're stupid enough to expect something like iMovie to work on an android phone, just because you can download it, then that's on you. Rockstar doesn't owe you anything, they made it clear the game is for windows and console only. Maybe use your brain and realize there's a reason they don't enable support on all types of operating systems, and missing out on possible sale and more profit, no? You really think this company wants LESS money?

[@beyondtheringgaming]

@spookeyclaws5350 I really don't understand how what you said is such a hard concept for some people. The fact that it worked before is 100% irrelevant UNLESS the developer stated that they officially supported the Steam Deck and SteamOS. If a developer never said they supported something, they are not going to test updates on it or care if something breaks. its that simple. Valve is conditioning people think that a lack of comment from a developer means that it will work, which is bad.

[@Snooty1]

I sorta get what you’re saying, but to understand “that” way is to pretend that the Steam Deck is a console… just like your PlayStation analogy, if PS made a portable console half way down the line AND required all existing game companies to support it if they wanted to continue to stay on the platform then yes, PlayStation would be at fault. But Valve isn’t forcing game companies to support their hardware, that also includes their own games. It’s just that Steam Deck is the most popular handheld platform for PC, and some game companies realize that, so they support it. Now I agree, Valve should have a clearer outline on the compatibility of games on their Steam Deck, and if the game companies support it. But I don’t agree that it’s Valve’s fault if a game breaks. Developing games on console is a lot more streamlined, one hardware configuration for a set number of years, and the game devs know this, they also know that developing on PC is the polar opposite… they have to account for all the hardware and software configurations that comes with PC. That way the game runs, it’s not AMD’s fault if let’s say the next call of duty crashes because that game isn’t compatible with their CPUs. The game devs have to fix it to run on all types of CPUs for it to be well received by all, or they’ll get an angry group of AMD users. Rockstar broke a game on a PC platform, if they don’t want an angry group of Steam Deck users, then they’ll fix it.

[@ralph4370]

Well, there is a battleye for Proton/Linux that is supported but Rockstar chose NOT to use it. There is a bigger picture you are not seeing here. Valve has been trying to give gamers an alternative from Windows since Windows 8.1 debacle launch issues. With their release of SteamOS/SteamPCs that failed and eventually lead to Steamdeck. Windows 10 removed DRM that was related to play old games. Due to "Security" reasons. Windows 7 had an awesome Virtual PC to run old versions of Windows 95,98,ME to play old games but did not include it on later versions. There have been a few games that did not work at launch on the Steamdeck but those devs quickly worked on a patch and worked. Seems mostly indie developers actually care about their users. Seen more indie games running on Windows/Linux/Mac. What a novel idea of trying to get money by being diverse. Rockstar is part of the issue along with Microsoft. There is a demand with steamdeck users wanting to play games they purchased on different platforms. I would not be surprised Microsoft said something to Rockstar to stem users from jumping ship Windows to Linux. I have seen more "Why I left Windows" or "Linux Challenge" or "Why you should be using Linux" videos in the last 6 months. I have also seen with the Windows Co-pilot issue and many users jumping to Linux and seeing a slight bump on Linux on desktop. I am one that is running Linux on one laptop and steamdeck. My desktops are running Windows for now. Depending where you hear your tech news. Microsoft insiders mentioned that Microsoft is taking a look at handhelds more. What a coincidence Rog Ally, MSI Claw, and others that run Windows do not have this issue? They run windows. Wouldn't it make sense to make it difficult to your competitor. It is microsoft, remember the Netscape and Internet Explorer? Also rockstar has been getting more greedy by nickle and diming GTA5 Online. With their GTA+ subscription, shark cards and took them over 7 years before a user found a way to make the game launch faster. Then Rockstar incorporated it into the game to make it more efficient. Years of hackers invading the game and they have done nothing about it. I want the OPTION to play GTA5 Online on Linux or Windows. I paid for the game. Not like I can play games on Mac. Years ago, Blizzard was banning users for using Linux to play World of Warcraft. Something in their system was showing mods/security issues. Then they backed off due to the backlash and the important thing was getting more subs to pay for their game. Now its a non issue. Blizzard does not advertise it but is aware of it. Users are telling Devs there is a market for Linux and those Devs are ignoring us. Grassroots starts slow, and gaining traction. I think Steamdeck is gaining more traction than what people lead on. A steamdeck is cheaper and better than a PS5 Pro cost wise. The whole backbone of the internet is run on Linux/Unix.

[@beyondtheringgaming]

Here is the thing, I agree with what you are saying. Microsoft being the only real option for PC gaming is a serious problem that needed to be addressed. I said that in the video. I personally don't even like Windows. I find it a necessary evil but Mac is my personal OS of choice for anything outside of gaming. I also acknowledge that the work done with proton has been very good for gaming's future. However, that does not absolve Valve from not properly educating users on the risks of the platform when these games are running in an unofficial manner as far as many developers are concerned. When a game breaks running in a way the developer did not intend, even if it is in an update since obviously they are not going to test a way they never said they supported, the developer cannot be at fault.

[@THE-SE7EN-SINS]

It’s gonna be hilarious too because Microsoft is going to block kernel level access in the future which means Rockstar will have to either change anti-cheat or remove it all together, which means it’s going to work on steam deck again in the future. They’re doing this just to be petty or they’re being paid to do this.

[@specialfred453]

If something is working and you break it, you are responsible for breaking it

[@beyondtheringgaming]

Not when that something is working in a way you never officially supported in the first place. I can't find anywhere that Rockstar ever advertised working on the Steam Deck.

[@specialfred453]

@@beyondtheringgaming it doesn't matter if they officially supported it. They changed the software in someone else's environment and it broke the software in that environment. I'm not saying they're responsible for fixing it but they're definitely responsible for breaking it

[@beyondtheringgaming]

While you are not technically wrong, we also shouldn't expect them to test the update on that unsupported platform either. Admittedly part of this goes along with the problems with live service games, so you can't just stick with the previous working version. And that is a much larger discussion. Valve should have communicated this risk to users, but they don't

[@Immortan_Bob]

@@specialfred453 This is exactly correct. Rockstar fully understood the consequences of switching anti cheat software, and did it anyway.

[@digglerdiggler]

@@Immortan_Bob ... hence, vote with your wallet. I know I do.

[@Nurgul626]

Rockstar knowingly chose to use kernel-level anticheat software that was a) not there from the start (and thus users didn't accept it when they bought the game) b) deliberately unsupported for steamdeck (by selecting the unsupported version) The whole idea of "supported by the developer platform" is a joke. If you play game from 2018 on your new 4090, and it didn't work, who should you blame? Nvidia for making a GPU? Or the developer who broke new gpu suppprt in the recent update because, "ugh, guys, we dont support any new gpus after gtx 980"? Handheld gaming is here to stay, and ignoring the existance of steamdeck (the most popular handheld, sold by the biggest pc gaming store) by the developers or publishers is an utter joke and childish approach to business.

[@beyondtheringgaming]

The reason it broke is irrelevant. They never said they supported SteamOS. > The whole idea of "supported by the developer platform" is a joke. So I should be able to run every game on my Mac then? And then go to the developer and complain when it breaks? Even though they never said anything about supporting my Mac. Of course not, That is ridiculous.

[@Nurgul626]

@@beyondtheringgaming >So I should be able to run every game on my Mac then? Well, yes. Apple has its own compatibility layer(s) that you can use to play games, even GTA 5. But, spoiler alert, Rockstar broke it with this patch. >And then go to the developer and complain when it breaks? Yes. You bought the product, and you used it without breaking any laws and ToS. Yes, company could say that your use case is not supported, but if there are enough people who complain about the issue, company might make an official statemenet, or even add support for those users. That is called a feedback, and a feedback is very important, as it is the only way how company can hear you. >Even though they never said anything about supporting my Mac. They also never said that they will milk you for microtransactions, but guest what :) You are focusing too much on what Rockstar said, implying that thay can't just change their minds and do the opposite. Instead, I suggest taking a look at how they treat their customers: they made a breaking change that they could clearly omit by contacting both Valve and BattleEye. But that was too much hustle for small indie multi dollar company T2/Rockstar. The difference between Valve and Rockstar in this situation is that Valve gave customers a choice and provided a service, while Rockstar took it from the customers. And as a customer, I side with the company that want to provide me a good service and choice and respects my needs (of playing games in the restroom)

[@digglerdiggler]

@@beyondtheringgaming Time to strap in and start actively supporting Linux / Proton / Steam Deck. Especially when the return on invest should be clearly on Rockstars side. The amount of effort to configure the Anticheat to run is minimal. The dissapointment, diminished reputation and "wallet voting" will hurt Rockstar much much more then to stick a few programming hours into resolving the issue. It doesn't make any business sense, unless they have a contract with the devil (MS that is).

[@burger-enjoyer]

Steam Deck is only the most popular handheld if you completely ignore tge Switch which has sold what, 50x more?

[@AllenGuarnes]

​@@Nurgul626well said

[@specialfred453]

An update can break a game that previously ran on your hardware? Welcome to PC ownership. Have you seen Hunt Showdown 1896?

[@kurt120032002]

Dude, it is really really RALLY simple. Check mark means Steam tested the game and runs on Steam Deck at the present moment. Then check the game requirements as one should do anyway, and see if it is listed Linux. If it is, it means it has official support from developers. If there is no linux listed there, it means it does not have official linux support and the compatibility relays on proton compatibility layer. Come on, it is not rocket science, you don't need to understand what proton is, you may even think it is a spell book and still understand the situation.

[@beyondtheringgaming]

If everyone understood that then people would not be complaining about the developer when they broke an unsupported platform. That, is clearly not the case and there has been a failure to communicate this on Valve’s side. We shouldn’t be assuming that someone is going to understand something technical when most won’t. Most will have no idea unless they are bashed over the head with the information. All Valve needs to do is include a very simple disclaimer next to verified. Maybe move the system requirements to be right next to it. But even that isn’t perfect. A game could say they support the steam deck and that not be listed. Take Cyberpunk 2077 for example. It has a Steam Deck preset. I would argue that is saying you officially support the Steam deck. Their system requirements makes no reference to it. So that clearly isn’t the solution.

[@TheyCallMeReo420]

The problem is how long they waited to do this, not to mention doing it during a sale where many people bought the game specifically for steamdeck. whether or not rockstar should be obligated is not the issue people have, the issue is the lack of care for consumer (i do agree valve should be more clear but to be completly fair they told us half life 3 was going to happen so we shouldnt be suprised)

[@personwomanmancameratelevision]

This clearly shows the difference between a Console and a PC gamers mentality. You can take EVERY console from gameboy to PS5 and it doenst come close to the number of games available on Steam and not counting the fact the steamdeck can emulate up to ps3 in some cases. So tens of thousands of games are available for the Deck. There is no practical way where one company can verify all of them AND every update without becoming a very limited console device like a PS5 or switch. The verified tag is a snapshot not an ongoing verification. If the Dev never updated the game, after verified, it still works. If the DEV added something that broke compatibility then it is on the DEV not steam but "Good Guy Valve" typically updates proton to fix what devs dont. When you publish on steam you follow a general guideline. You make the game available and the user can chose their hardware/software to make it work but there is no guarantee you meet requirements even then. So let's keep it simple. If I have windows(current year), will every windows game created for windows(all versions) work? the answer is an easy no. some old some new are not compatible for various reasons. You expect Microsoft to evaluate every PC game from windows 3.1(dos) to windows 11(directx) for compatibility or is the Dev responsible? MS makes the platform support some tools like directX, api etc but it ultimately comes to the dev. PC gaming is not locked down like consoles, where you cannot mod, adjust or make items compatible. You act as if updates on console games dont crash, corrupt saves or have issues even with software certifications. MS doesn't educate consumers on what should work or not so why should Valve? There is a huge open community that can do what Valve or microsoft(windows) cannot do.

[@beyondtheringgaming]

Microsoft does generally communicate that software (including games) may not be compatible with a new version of Windows. However, Valve created this problem. They are the ones selling you hardware to run games in a way that the developers did not intend. They are the ones running a store with information on it to encourage you to buy a game and run it in that unsupported manner as far as the developer is concerned. Valve should take responsibly to properly inform users exactly what they are spending money on. Exactly what the risks of doing that are, when the developer has never pledged support. Microsoft doesn't do that, Nvidia doesn't do that, AMD doesn't do that. So something may not be compatible down the road but they never implied otherwise.

[@personwomanmancameratelevision]

@@beyondtheringgaming "Microsoft does generally communicate that software (including games) may not be compatible with a new version of Windows." I am calling BS. MS has NEVER communicated X may not be compatible with Y version. Usually you get a crash/error. There is no website, email, notification that says that X may not work on windows 95 - win11. It is up to the user to seek that out. I have been gaming for 40years let's just say you misspoke and move on. Where is this same fervor for games made for steam for MacOS. If a game is made for intel cpu but I am running am running am M3 through emulation at which point are you blaming dev, OS version, user for running a game and it working or not? DId you not read anything I wrote? There is a clear verified snapshot at least. Even windows, the largest gaming platform in history, does not guarantee compatibility. Show me anywhere on the windows microsoft store/xbox app that has a verified tag tell me where they say an update will or wont affect the software? So you are giving a company with a market cap of 3 trillion, and 230,000 employees a pass but the private company with a little over 1300 employees the herculean task to educate billions....🤔

[@beyondtheringgaming]

> Where is this same fervor for games made for steam for MacOS. If a game is made for intel cpu but I am running am running am M3 through emulation at which point are you blaming dev, OS version, user for running a game and it working or not? Well unless the dev said they supported Mac it is 100% not the dev if the game breaks. As far as whether Apple or the User would be to blame for it working, it depends. If Apple put out a tool like proton (they have a similar tool but instead of it being meant for users to use, it is meant for Developers to use to port their game) then started selling those games as working on Mac with no input from the developer and they did not communicate this to the user. It would be Apple's fault if the user is just choosing to go on their own and try to run a game on Mac than obviously it is up to the user. I honestly don't know how you can compare running on the OS that the developer is targeting and needing to run through a compatibility layer for the game to run. The fact that it has to exist at all for the game to run on SteamOS clearly shows that the responsibility for the game is not on the developer. And that since Valve made both SteamOS and Proton they should be communicating what validated means to users. A very simple message next to validated that says "This game running on the Steam Deck does not imply the developer supports running it on Steam Deck and it could break in a future update" would go a long way. Something on the Steam Deck marketing page explaining what Proton is and that you are running games in an unofficial manner would also go a long way. They don't need to go to extreme lengths to educate users, but at this point they are not even making a minimum effort.

[@slipper8105]

the verified tag means that the games run on the steam deck it doesnt mean that the dev are the ones who support it i know reading is very hard as u said no where does it say who supports it when the blurb says that the game runs and all functions work on the steam deck and that is all

[@beyondtheringgaming]

Exactly that is my point here. Valve should make that more clear to users that buy a game and buy a steam deck though. Someone that does not understand how games that actually run on the steam deck could be fooled into thinking otherwise. And clearly people are or they would not be attacking a developer when that unsupported platform breaks.

[@slipper8105]

@@beyondtheringgaming even if steam gave u a blurb in the description before you buy a game almost no one would read it not to mention it wouldnt stop the idiots that are already attacking rockstar for adding battleye because at the end of the day they are mad a game they liked got no longer works and no matter what steam adds that reaction still wouldve been the same the only way that this works is if steam just disables all games that wont be supported by the devs.

[@beyondtheringgaming]

You are likely right, but at least Valve would be doing the bare minimum to try to educate. Some people would get it. I don't think saying that people will ignore it gives Valve a free pass to not even do a minimum amount of education. Developers would have that disclaimer to point too when the game breaks.

[@Claude-v5v]

There is only one reason why is not working, and is that they don't want to enable Steamdeck support for EAC, that's it, is not like they have to code or recreate something from scratch is just that they don't want Linux users to play gta online, that's it literally

[@beyondtheringgaming]

While valid and I mentioned that in the video, its still not the point. GTA isn't the first game that has had an issue around compatibility in an update and Valve needs to communicate this better to customers.

[@Claude-v5v]

@@beyondtheringgaming the issue doesn't have anything to do with the game itself, again Rockstar Games just need to literally contact Battleye to enable the Proton support for GTA Online, which yes is available but only if Rockstar wants to do it...

[@beyondtheringgaming]

Ok great, so that fixes one instance of a game breaking in an update but Valve still needs to do a better job communicating this to users. What if Rockstar made their own anticheat for some reason? Then they would have to make the effort to port that to linux themselves. So we would be in the same situation without an easy fix. But again, Rockstar never pledged support for the Steam Deck but you could have been fooled into thinking they did by looking at the store page thanks to how Valve communicates this to users.

[@DespyBlitz]

@@beyondtheringgamingValve clearly did communicate it to users. They explained exactly why it doesn’t work which is the anti cheat and Rockstar not enabling it. Valve are offering refunds to users as well. Yet you blame poor communication from Valve? It’s not their responsibility to predict whether a game will update and stop working, that can literally happen on any system. Should Sony have a duty to tell its users that a developer may shut down its servers in the future? No.

[@Immortan_Bob]

Rockstar is being forced to support an OS they should have been supporting from the start. I offer them zero sympathies.

[@beyondtheringgaming]

The fact that they are being forced is wrong. I genuinely don't understand how we can realistically say that it is ok in the slightest for Valve to decide to put that burden on developers? That is Valve clearly using their market dominance. I want competition for Windows but we should not celebrate this behavior either.

[@hawtdayum]

Rockstar isnt forced to do anything. If they don't want people, who own steamdecks, to buy their game they are more than free to say "we dont like money". 🤣 Millions of people are using Steam decks now. Devs who ignore millions of potential customers are just kneecapping themselves in the future but they are NOT forced to do anything. They can assume this steamdeck is a fad, and be left in the void if they do not compete for those gamer bucks. Valve made a platform that people are using. There is no windows spyware/stupid AV overhead or odd battery drains. I believe in a free market and the market of portable gaming that Valve just filled was late in coming. If anything Valve just made it easier since devs dont have to set aside a whole time compiling a linux, and windows version when proton does it technomagically. You speak of market dominance but MS is worth trillions and portable decent gaming was limited to Nintendo and terrible battery windows devices just a few short years ago.

[@beyondtheringgaming]

If they are not being forced to do something they are also under no obligation to continue to support it in future updates (or even test it) when they never claimed it support in the first place. It's great that Windows is seeing competition and that is important.

[@Immortan_Bob]

@@beyondtheringgaming The only force that's being applied to Rockstar here is generated by the market. If they are as smart, they'll fix it. Especially since it's a reportedly easy fix.

[@luciferverone]

Gamers come first, companies come second. Simple as that. Especially when they have the audacity to charge 100 dollars for a game. You know GTA6 will be 100 dollars on release.

[@beyondtheringgaming]

I agree with you to a point, but as gamers we are running it on a platform that the developers never targeted. We shouldn't expect them to test on an unsupported platform? Would you still be saying the company was at fault if I was using a similar tool to run GTA Online on my Mac and it broke with this update?

[@luciferverone]

@@beyondtheringgaming It doesnt matter if they targeted it or not. They have made the game for consoles. Steam deck is a console. Simple as that. Its all an excuse.

[@beyondtheringgaming]

That doesn't make any sense First the Steam Deck is not a console. Even valve doesn't call it that, the best they say is a "console like experience" It is running Linux. For all of the reasons that matter, the Steam Deck is a PC. Second, it does matter. If you are emulating the Switch and an update to Breath of the Wild came out that didn't work with the emulator would you really blame Nintendo? This entire time that GTA was working on SteamOS, rockstar has absolutely nothing to do with it working. Valve is the only one that ever told you it worked there. Why would you think that Rockstar would test a platform they never said they supported.

[@luciferverone]

@@beyondtheringgaming Its a hand held console. Stop making excuses for companies already. They already are lazy enough to just bring out a console exclusive and here you are telling us that they are "Forced" to port it over to steam deck. Honestly enough of this.

[@beyondtheringgaming]

Why are you ignoring that Valve is not informing users of the risk. It is NOT a handheld console. Seriously, go look at what Valve says: www.steamdeck.com/en/ "Powerful, portable PC gaming, designed for comfort and a console-like user experience" I don'y really know how you can continue saying its a console when Valve doesn't even call it a console. I am not saying they are being forced to run on the steam deck. I am saying that Valve is making the choice for them, and then not taking responsibility to inform users of the risks associated with running games in this way.

[@MonsieurGinger]

Wasn't subscribed to this and now definitely not going to. Do some research. I wasn't going to comment but this was so misinformed I felt I had to. You're welcome for the engagement.

[@beyondtheringgaming]

I backed up what I said by research. How about actually telling me what I got wrong with sources?

[@personwomanmancameratelevision]

I'll bite. The nature of consoles are locked down hardware and software where developers/publishers to go through certs and other hoops is completely different than PC. There is no general PC hardware. You can have different cpu, ram, gpu, hdd/ssd, OS and the tech behind all of that hardware and future updates breaking or improving performance. The devs point to general system requirement but even they they dont guarantee anything for PC users. My Desktop, laptop, rog ally, steamdeck can have completely different specs but still play the same games or sometimes not. What you are asking is for Valve to do something no other company INCLUDING the largest OS gaming platform(Microsoft) to do. Does MS educate anyone on Win10 21h2 vs 22h2 or why Valorant only works with windows with TPM 2.0 and secure boot or is that on the Dev? Do MS guarantee their updates wont bork your game at some point? Do I get a newsletter before I install a game showing the differences in directX 11 vs 12 vs vulcan compatibility? What you are asking has NEVER been done in the PC space and let me remind you the steamdeck is still the PC space, NOT aA CONSOLE. The Steam platform means they bring the software and I bring the OS and hardware. Whether that be windows, linux or macOS. The friction point can be easily solved with a lookup before purchase. The SD video reference explained things clearly and there isnt much to add to it. So your sources arent at issues it's the reasoning behind it. Your nebulous "average user" doesnt exist. If someone is even looking at a steamdeck they already have a PC and Steam running. They are already a PC gamer at this point which negates most of your arguments.

[@beyondtheringgaming]

There is a clear difference though between different hardware and a different OS. Of course a developer can't test every combination of hardware but at least those games are still running on the OS they were originally intended to run on. There is a reason that if you go look at the system requirements for Cyberpunk 2077 it specifically calls out Windows 10 as the OS support.cdprojektred.com/en/cyberpunk/pc/sp-technical/issue/1556/cyberpunk-2077-system-requirements The fact that Proton even needs to exist makes it obvious that it being a different OS is fundamentally different than just different hardware in your PC. This is not a new expectation for PC gaming. Before the Steam Deck when Linux gaming was far more niche of course it was on the person installing the game on Linux to understand that support isn't guaranteed. I am not going to complain to every developer when an update comes out and it breaks a game on my Mac through similar software as Proton. Why is SteamOS any different?

[@personwomanmancameratelevision]

So reread what the proton compatibility layer is. Maybe you are stuck on that. All it is doing, in real time, is redirecting the calls for windows processes, dlls to linux ones. As for studio/dev/publishers they can put whatever they want in the system requirements like cp2077 and I still ran it in unsupported hardware as I ran it on windows 7 just fine but that is on me not cd projeck if the OS was the limiting factor. We are PC gamers, if something doesnt work right off the bat we figure it out, find someone who has figured it out or wait for a patch. If Rockstar, or whomever wants to ignore us then it's their bottom line that gets smaller. As a patient game with a huge backlog I can wait them out, but can their investors accept a lower quarterly return? Let's keep it 💯 valve single handedly broke microsoft's strangle on PC gaming and made it portable. A few outlier games wont turn back this tide. Even the more powerful windows portable gaming systems have terrible battery, bad sleep modes, windows overhead, bloat and AI spyware and other issues. Valve made it so a company does not need to dedicate labor, software, and money to target a whole new platform as proton does all of the heavy lifting and having a steam deck target means they get a boost in potential customers too. It is a win for consumers, a win for game companies, a win for investors and a win for future game advancements.

[@beyondtheringgaming]

> So reread what the proton compatibility layer is. Maybe you are stuck on that. > All it is doing, in real time, is redirecting the calls for windows processes, dlls to linux ones. So you are in fact running the game in a way that the developer did not intend? It is clearly not perfect or every game would be validated and all of this would be a moot point. That is not a diss to the software, just reality. > Valve made it so a company does not need to dedicate labor, software, and money to target a whole new platform as proton does all of the heavy lifting and having a steam deck target means they get a boost in potential customers too. It is a win for consumers, a win for game companies, a win for investors and a win for future game advancements. How can you write that and still claim that anyone but Valve is responsible? You are quite literally saying that Valve made this software, did this, did that, and yet the developer is responsible? Nowhere am I claiming that the work here was bad or that the steam deck should run Windows. I genuinely think it is better for the future of gaming. But just because it is better does not mean that users should not be educated either. Valve made this software and is responsible for telling users that the only reason the game works on the Steam Deck is because of Valve software, not because of the developer. Like you just said. They are responsible for stating that the developer could break support at any point because they never claimed support for SteamOS. The developer may not test future updates on the Steam Deck or may introduce something incompatible (or not configured) for the Steam Deck. But Valve does neither of these things properly when you buy a steam deck or when you buy a "verified" game for the steam deck. Meaning as the customer you are lacking critical information.

[@macstevins]

If a game has a problem running on Proton, its not the devs fault, its a problem on Protons end

[@beyondtheringgaming]

People don't want to acknowledge this. Could rockstar do something in this particular case? Sure. But they are under zero obligation to do so when they never promised support in the first place. Valve for some reason seems immune to criticism as if they are our friends. They are still a corporation that has their own incentives to get people to use SteamOS and to buy games.

[@burger-enjoyer]

You are already flamed by fanboys. Steam Deck users are becoming a tech cult.

[@beyondtheringgaming]

Honestly it's not like I don't like my steam deck. I still buy most of my games from Steam. But like any other cooperation, they are not our friend and don't need us defending them when they make bad decisions.