Roger Deakins Secret To Cinematic Lighting?

[@Legendary_Tales]

Hey, Matti! About for "down" lighting onto the Muslin... Consider placing the muslin at 45° to the floor. Look closely at Deacon's photos with Judi dench. The muslin is angled 45°. If you did that, you could put the light stands behind your muslin and away from your talent. I really love that somebody respected and popular in the videography space on KZbin is talking about advanced lighting techniques like this. BRAVO!🎉

[@NicholsBlauner]

so to go off the Judi Dench example, the lights are placed behind the muslin / diffusion material, and when shined through the frames, the light still has a nice soft upward bounce? I am curious if at higher intensities if the light will penetrate the diffusion and not angle up as much

[@pdawggity]

hey matti, this is one of the best videos you've made. because you are learning, we are learning. i know u been feeling discouraged with youtube lately and want to do more. but stuff like this is more. if you want to start a cinematic journey and are getting into more feature films and stuff like that, do it. just bring us around with you.

[@ErisedMediaCo]

Can’t wait for future videos. I like that youre getting back to this type of content. I’ve missed it and most other people have stopped talking about the basics and just talk gear.

[@mattih]

Yea me included 😔 turning down most embargo gear videos

[@ErisedMediaCo]

@@mattih well at least you are making an effort to break away from that stuff. It hasn’t gone unnoticed and is really appreciated!

[@rychusandbonita]

It's so cool to see how experimenting with lighting techniques can change the mood of the look. Also it shows that there is no limit to lighting. Out of the 2 cove lights, I preferred the cove lighting pointing up as it's more dramatic. Thanks for sharing Matti

[@mattih]

Yea I think I settle too fast with lighting but should really experiment and try more things!

[@vijayfitness1723]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/jWapi2upjd5ll5Y

[@TheFilmGuyOfficial]

Hey matti, the reason why the uplighting works better in this situation is 1. because of the angle, it dosnt hit the background as much, do it provides more of a purposeful feeling edge on you. 2. the way the face is structured lighting from underneath creates more shadows and definition on the face in a micro scale, because their is more blocking the light from hitting everything, look at. your lips and the shadow formed on them, look at how your eyes still maintain good contrast. its all about depth.

[@YeahWhiplash]

Love the direction you're taking your KZbin channel. I felt like I watched a lot of your content a few years ago, then I started working on set in the industry and it wasn't as useful to me. Seeing your new adventure trying to get more into narrative cinematography has brought me right back

[@frasertomsfilm]

great video man - for me it's 2 big things - 1. Noses. Noses when I'm lighting w/ lights I'm never happy with the shadows and this completely eliminates that - probably many people don't mind or care, but it's just an observation that it's much more flattering for nose shadows. 2. Up or down direction isn't going to matter much (in my opinion) for the look since the cloth is a a big source - it's more about where the spot hits the cloth vs where the spot comes from. I think Deakins adjusts this primarily based on the location. I say that because they look very much the same to me and I've seen his setups for both and I think its the convenience regarding where you can put the physical lights. 2 behind the scenes that are popular of his is one where it's low in a kitchen with 2 actors (decaprio?) and another where the lights are high w/ Judy Dench sitting on a couch. The only caveat to that is in the couch scene w/ Judy the actual cloth/reflectors are themselves angled up which WOULD change the vibe much more-so than where the actual lights themselves are if that makes sense. Anyway, this is the best way to learn is to actually do it.

[@mitchell.95]

So so appreciate your humility in sharing these things as you learn them. Truly helps the rest of us learn alongside you.

[@Babsdoproductions]

Put the C-stands behind the muslin, boom the lights out overhead and spin them around to aim down at the muslin, simple fix for having the stands clogging the light path. This is a good all around technique for the reason you found where you could move around the room and it still looks naturally and evenly lit.

[@GlenAndFriendsCooking]

I did a job with Deakins - 25 years ago - I was too young and dumb to actually pay attention to what he was doing. Definitely one of those scenarios where I wish I could have a do-over.

[@JonasBecker]

Love this, 22 minutes feeling like 5 because of your excitement! It feels like the beginning days of camera youtube, where people just showed off what they learned today, instead of making perfectly scritped tutorials which feel like they were built for retention. Would love to see more of those vids just testing stuff out. Much love! :)

[@robwattclips]

hey matti, looks decent, the angle of the muslin matters for the angle of bounced light, you can allow is to curve down onto the floor like an exponential curve for a better light wrap, or you can have muslin bounces on frames at 30to45degrees on c-stands creating the cove light wrap. Glad you're bringing this to your audience. excellent job

[@ZdenkaDarula]

Loved this video and playing with lights. I used to do that so much when I used to shoot fashion... now I am lazy but it is nice to see someone else to do it. One thing though... why manual focus? The constant out of focus drives me nuts... lol

[@kahlilvillias2630]

Wow I love where this channel is going. Hated all the pushing random gear. So happy you’re diving into deeper aspects of film.

[@AbroadinJapan]

Enjoyed this from start to finish mate. Super interesting stuff! Looking forward to seeing what wonders you can pull off with that Arri.

[@MarioCornejo-lc3rg]

holy moly

[@J_HNP]

Great example of how much value we get out of experimentation. A few things I thought about while watching this video: 1) “Uplight” is not the correct term in my opinion. If you were pointing the lights directly at you from that angle, it would be uplight. But since the light is bouncing and diffracting at many angles, you are really getting lit from all over (bottom and top), replicating the natural environment, but in a more controlled way. 2) I find that cove lighting is best for narrative work where talent may be moving around. It also helps control the fall off when you want to have very tight control of ratios. 3) With talking head/interviews, cove lighting requires too much flagging to control the environment for my taste. Thanks for sharing! Looked like a lot of fun.

[@matsefcik]

Lewis Potts has some great videos on lighting and I think he did one on Deakin's cove set-up. Really enjoying this type of content, Matti!

[@thejiggy]

Yeah, Lewis’ channel is great too

[@behzadbabri]

hands up if u think gear DOES MATTER!

[@WhySteve]

The "uplighting" thing is something I always think about when people say "never use a bounce card from the bottom but rather from the top to fill" but then I always think to myself, "but don't our shadows get filled from light bouncing from the ground though?"

[@AManWhoWasntThere]

Good point. I think as long as it's just fill and less powerful than the key light it should look pretty natural, right? I remember in The Hateful 8 Tarantino & his DP did a lot of bounce light off table surfaces when characters sit down at the table and it looks great...

[@WhySteve]

Exactly! I think the uplighting in The Hateful 8 also contributed to how conspicuous the characters are.

[@SamNadeau]

I love tutorials like this that are more experimental, especially when it comes to lighting. It really helped me look at lighting in a different way!

[@GreggoryMiller]

This was so useful! I work for a fully digital church, and live streaming is a large aspect of our production. Lighting in a smaller studio space has been a challenge, and I want to try to implement what I can from this. Thanks Matti!

[@martinekwall4671]

Excellent example of how a light can be softer but contrastier at the same time. Really cool! 🙏

[@KristianRoald]

Do more of these nerdie videos Matti! Time flies when watching. Super interesting 🙂👌🏻

[@nathanksimpson]

13:50 that’s that sweet spot between clearly lit and motivated. 15:38 Looks more motivated by the window.

[@philippegden9826]

One of your best films in recent history, even past history. I like the direction you've taken this channel!

[@marcusmezzano]

As a fellow cinematographer, I loved this missed focus, dead mic, “janky” video lol Loved seeing you play. We don’t always have to have perfect production especially for KZbin 🔥🤙🏼

[@devoncooperco]

This was an epic watch from the start to finish. I was very interested and loved the way you compared it all. Cove lighting for the win.

[@cwarfield]

Love this format…the viewers learning along with you. Super fun

[@jeffreybuoncristiano]

i love cove lighting and Roger Deakins. I used to use it all the time for my studio shots! I might bring it back!

[@CTOLARSSON]

Ah very interesting! Also mindblowing how much effort goes into lighting a scene in movies.

[@cinematic_monkey]

This is just 100% Roger Deakins. So amazing.

[@LOMISFILM]

Love your style man. Genuine curiosity & passion without any ego whatsoever. Can't wait for more.

[@chris_sparrows]

If you put c-stands behind the fabric and put the lights on an arm it would get them out of the way for the down angle, but I see what you mean about the uplight version, it has more dimension. Cove lighting might take longer to set up initially, but being able to move around in the space should make for a faster shoot once you get going. Appreciate you taking us along on this journey.

[@mattih]

Yea that’s a good point but that means way more c stands which I don’t have 😂 Yes exactly! More setup but then saves tons of time later. I really like it.

[@chris_sparrows]

@@mattih I only have one c-stand myself. 😂 Really surprised about how pleasing and not distracting the reflection in your glasses was.

[@mm216yours]

@@mattih Please tell me what lens u had used at 14:25, I love how it looks. sorry for being annoying i just wanna buy that lens asap

[@ibrahimal-khalaf8008]

This is actually amazing to learn. Love that it’s so simple.

[@WeddingVideographerMelbourne]

This is probably one of the best lighting experiments/breakdowns I've seen! Love how in depth you went 🙏

[@DiceDragondnd]

i love this shift in your content Matti! Video idea: break down of famous shots from latest movie (light wise).

[@pdawggity]

plz do this!

[@EricAlanMedia]

DUDE THIS IS AMAZING! That big rig would make a great big time logo!

[@BransenPass]

Didn’t think there would be that much of a difference between the up and down cove lighting. That’s great knowledge to have on set. Thanks!

[@iConspicturez]

Lighting setup is very essential

[@wavensdorvad]

So much nuances. So much personality and personal preferences and feelings in photography and cinematography

[@dm.b7560]

One of the best videos you've done so far.

[@samueljwalter]

videos that test things in real time are some my favorites. Thanks for sharing! Do you think there would be much a difference if the two softbox lighting was lowered and angled upwards? Similar to the first cove lighting setup? Maybe not practical due to the size of the softboxes...

[@mattih]

That woulda been a great thing to try! Curious how it looks. But the cove definitely made things soooo much more natural looking.

[@UrbanExplosionsGuy]

love this. deconstructing and re-creating scenes from movies was always a good practice for me.

[@portodbs]

It’s crazy how much light changes everything. Great video I’ll try to work on my lighting a lot more after watching this.

[@Nimbussunshine]

Oh! This is nice. Can't wait for the rest of the series!

[@nikokurvinen]

Epic ! Good Work Matti. Really enjoy your content 🔥

[@anthonywowv1142]

This video is Gold!! Thank you Matti

[@michaelloveschannel]

This was awesome thanks for taking the time to document this Matti!

[@eugenheller4182]

I love how excited you get about what you do. It really makes me want to create as well. Crazy. 😊😊👍🏼 Have a wonderful day Matti

[@mattih]

🙏🏻 😊

[@FilmByKyle]

Your skin tones look really great with the fill on the left side of your face (screen). Definitely will use this set up!

[@PaulGarrisonIV]

Yessss Matti!!! I’m loving this journey you’re on, I’ve been playing with cove lighting from the beginning when I took a deep dive into roger deakins

[@hylox]

I always lit my talking heads from down below just because I wore a cap most of the time and I would've had a big shadow hitting my face but something about this uplighting always resonated with me very well. Now I finally know why- thank you :)

[@hitmakerzmedia]

Proper lighting is so important!👌🏽

[@mattih]

So true! That’s why I wanna play around way more with lighting 😊

[@PeaLoop]

Great format to explore and share as you learn! Refreshing.

[@FedericoSantaCruz]

Amazing how much of a difference the covelighting facing up makes.. it's so moody, I love it. Thanks for sharing!

[@jahzzii7]

my favorite video already!

[@pabloverbeke2681]

@mattih ru shooting in HDR??? for some reason the video looks darker on my macbook pro 2015, but much brighter and vivid on my Iphone 12 pro :s

[@Alex-Estilo]

I really loved this video. Thanks!

[@omarelsayed989]

Sorry for being too honest, but after almost 4 years of watching your videos, I'm finally starting to feel like you're making real videos rather than "trying" to make videos with some ads, Your last videos are full of very useful stuff and I'm thankfull for you sharing this, keep it up

[@sternschnupper]

totally love that you're just trying everything out, to see what happens! and that upward cove light is indeed magic! big thanks, very informative, indeed learned a ton!

[@TheEliasNoel]

Super helpful especially for low budget shooting when there isn’t a lot of time for setting up over and over.

[@carrothersr]

This was great - I like this format. Good direction for the channel!

[@lachlanstamp4203]

I'm pretty sure I remember Deakins saying on the forum he lights from the ground mostly from convenience of not having the stands. It's funny how convenience can be mistaken as stylistic intent. I'm sure its a mix of both though. As you said, maybe he knows what he's doing! Love these videos mate. I reckon I could experiment with lighting all day and it's fun to geek with creatives like you. I'd love to see these tests in a full wide shot with multiple characters. That's where the real challenge is.

[@harryaliv3992]

Loving these kind of videos❤️

[@josephfriedman614]

I found this video very helpful in showing me what the 2nd farther, more distant, light can do to create a more sculpted look. It's something I had in the back of my mind but never tried out when I actually set up interview lighting on location. So thanks for that. Particularly if you have a window in the background, as you have here, for motivation of that light.

[@NikHem343]

you have great on-screen chemistry with yourself, I don’t know how else to say it

[@zimmhone]

I dunno, the last shot immediately made me think ‘Gone Girl’ 😅. Which is is friggin amazing that you recreated how to capture that vibe!!! Everyone thinks ‘slap on a lit’ and you just proved the nuance in the little things that make perfection

[@zimmhone]

As in, you have shown how lighting can effect mood. No other video exists that illustrates this so simply. Kudos

[@afewmominutes]

Great video, very helpful seeing the differences. One difference I notice between uplighting vs downlighting was the shade from your cap, the uplighting provides more light to your upper face. I wonder if we'd see as much of a difference if you were hatless. Interesting stuff, thanks for this!

[@lukascampen]

Love that you created this video with less focus on dropping the latest tech everyone needs to buy and more focus on the actual craft. Well done! Personally I feel like lightingwise you did the second step before the first, which would be to have motivated lighting. Having the windowlight in a different color temperature and no other visible potential source for the keylight, this kinda looks fake - no matter how soft you get the light.

[@kevinfigs]

Love it! Which camera & lens did you use to film this KZbin video?

[@samuelguce]

always love learning from Dawkins' approach - top tier

[@_TheShepherd]

Matti, it would be neat to bring in a professional to see how they'd light the exact same shot. Really cool comparison. Thank you!

[@drmatthewhorkey]

This was an AWESOME video. Thanks for the experiment

[@mbusoguma5504]

Uplight works well with a practical light like a lamb. Works great with a dinner scene. It's cool

[@AutoFOCUSED.]

Your talking head looks phenomenal. Haven't watched the video yet but have it on pause. Love the color grade as well.

[@racemode]

I'm starting to learn that lighting is a preference

[@mattih]

Yesss! This is so true. And the popular “style” changes over time.

[@davidmultimedia2024]

It looks amazing indeed..Great comparison Matti! I freaking LOVE covelighting! I'm also using RGBWW lights, which allows me to introduce any RGB tone into my white light. It's another step to make your artificial lighting look even more natural by also emulating color reflections as they naturally happen in real life. The light coming from your window is actually a blend of hard sunlight and soft blue sky, which are both also reflected from grass, etc.. and then enters your room and bounces off walls and other surfaces. At the end, the light that hits the subject is very ''unique'' and no softbox pointed directly at it will ever look the same way. You can set slightly different CCT/Tint to create a gradient on the muslin wall. Again, little subtleties that really go a long way!

[@neilmcnasty]

Without a doubt the most useful and informative channel of it's kind! Salute to you Matti! Your work is awesome and can be enjoyed by everyone. No matter how much (or little) experience the viewer has, there is always valuable information! The magic comes from your enthusiasm and it is contagious! Inspiring, demystifying and motivating.

[@dvntsmh]

So coool! Love it 👏🏽

[@HeyThisIsAndrew]

I like the dim look at the start of the video definitely want to try it because it looked more unique than typical KZbin videos

[@Jakechams]

Its insane to me that such minimal changes can impact the lighting so so much. Great video friend.

[@AlonsoArayaAudiovisual]

Watched it entirely. Great exercise. Thank you.

[@GatesRick]

Cove lighting also gives you a little more freedom with camera location. You can move the camera within the cove and it won't generate as many shadows.

[@CineDailies]

this was a fun exercise to watch

[@JV_Automotive]

love the newly found enthusiasm ❤

[@MichealBeaulieu]

It's all about ratios. You can have all the lights in the world, biggest, smallest, brightest, but the key thing is we need to be concerned about isn't what key light you want to use, but balance, more or less is up to you.

[@elementfilters]

Great video Matti! We loved seeing your thoughts unfold live as you saw the footage side by side of each setup. Also it looks like you may have had an ND filter on your Mini LF if we're not mistaken? 👀 Keep up the good work!

[@CrossCory]

Interesting! The cove lighting is very cool, also much better on the glasses glare

[@samuelcallen.]

Great film Matti!! Learnt a lot! Love these lighting films👏👏

[@OlafBlomerus]

Really appreciate this deep dive. Hugely informative. Thank you!

[@paranormaltv2478]

Awesome test, you have defiantly given us a lot of food for thought, great video Matti!

[@rickymcc9072]

Hi Matti, the 'Roger Deakins cove look' is an interesting approach that I might try to experiment with (albeit I need to get a few more lights to do that properly). One observation though is that you probably need quite a lot more power overall, relative to the slightly blown (pretty distracting) window highlight at top right. IMO it's gone well beyond motivated light and into a bright distraction in the corner. OK, I'm a newbie to videography, so probably don't really have the experience to call it. But, I'm an experienced stills photographer, attempting to upskill myself in the technical arts of filmmaking. I always tried (when shooting stills) to ensure that the brighter areas, which the eye is naturally drawn towards, are the main subject and face. Typically my lighting goal was to try to avoid bright highlights at the edges, corners and keep the brightest area on subjects and preferably face(s). An all soft light approach can look flat and boring, but soft directional lighting, coming from an angle, especially with an additional backlight or rim light (so called 3-point), adds visual depth, interest, subject separation and a 3D modelling effect. Having a range of tones with some dark pools adds variety, but the brightest areas should ideally be where we want to direct viewer's attention. For sure it's more complex in videography as naturally one's eye is also drawn to faces, eyes in particular (if big enough) plus movement within the frame. Certain colours too and a source of speaking will also help command attention. One may also direct attention via composition, framing and leading lines. No absolute wrong or right - just different styles and preferences. In your example, perhaps part closing a window blind or using a large ND gel (over the window) may also help compensate by cutting some of the window light intensity vs the cove lighting. That wouldn't then need as much power into the cove, assuming one can open the aperture as wanted (balancing intensities with NDs and ISO as required). Clearly as a newbie, I probably don't yet know what I'm talking about, as well as needing to invest in a few more lights, need to experiment and grow my experience. I have lots of strobes (not much good for videography) from my stills days but currently only one COB - an Amaran 200x S, just bought. Yet my multiple stands, reflectors, soft boxes, miscellaneous grip kit from stills use should help augment lighting in film. I'm minded to buy one or two more 200X s heads and also consider an Amaran 150/300c for use as background fill or FX. I have several smaller panel LEDS and a couple of tubes too that might be useful as background accents or help act as OOF motivated sources together with any domestic room lights that one might find in any given room/space.

[@YOUAREMYKIN]

Loving this new direction in your channel 😎

[@EZfilms622]

This was a very fun video to watch!

[@markovichi_]

Very impresive dude, this channel is now on another level

[@mattih]

Thanks man 🙏🏻 I’m just learning and having fun

[@ConradIacobellis]

Loved the video. Even though I don't have the equipment you do, this opened my eyes to potential new lighting setups. Thanks, Matti!

[@chrisbutler8856]

The reason you are preferring the cove light is because it is increasing the light on the back wall, making the light hitting the face feel less 'sourc-y'. The actual face isnt changing much at all.

[@dvntsmh]

What's very interesting to me is the difference in the picture quality between the arri and a7siii. Could you do a video on how to get the arri look using a sony camera. If even at all possible? What gear you'd need and editing techniques?

[@pablo_proenza]

Once the light hits the muslin, it scatters. So unlike a mirror, there’s no real directionality… except where the hotspot of the light is landing. So you should be able to achieve the same effect whether the lights are hitting the cloth from above or below. Aim the lights higher or lower on the muslin to get the effect you want.

[@CompleteGeekTV]

Been watching your video forever and I think this is my favorite so far. Been playing around with different lighting techniques myself lately and this video came at the perfect time. Thanks Matti!