Rome: Herod

[@sebastianschwarzel2732]

let's face it the announcer is the best and most useful character for the plot

[@trueromancat7978]

This must be a public nomenclarius, a senate slave who must know all the sentors and VIPs in the republic.

[@Traderjoe]

If you saw Ace Ventura, Nature Calls, the English safari guide and the announcer are the same actor

[@edstar83]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/rnmTnIJrpsiDnJo

[@tesoh5349]

@@Traderjoe thank you so much for this

[@deathblade111]

True Roman Cat he played Baron Harkonen perfectly. Best part of miniseries

[@vazquezb2011]

"They will do as I say, or they will suffer the consequences". Mark Anthony's look: "My kind of guy. We'll get along fine". How I love this series...

[@tonyh1718]

One of my favorite lines Used to say that to my wife, til she beat my ass

[@Makaveli2000]

@@tonyh1718 keep that girl in line smack a bitch

[@Darek_B52]

@@Makaveli2000 let us pray the pimps prayer.

[@whitleypedia]

it needed so many more years :( ....

[@Ruosteinenknight]

Herod and Anthony had a pretty good relationship. To the point that Herod named fortress protecting the second temple after him. Of course, that kinda became a problem when Octavian and Anthony had their war and Herod chose to stay loyal to Anthony.

[@Wolf6119]

I love how they don't actually forbid mockery of the Jews entirely for the duration of his visit, they just limit it to an "appropriate minimum", as if the Roman people couldn't even go a day without insulting the Jews at least a little.

[@TheSealOfTheRose]

Yes that was the joke.

[@Dr.TJ_Eckleburg]

It's pretty hard even today tbh

[@seangannon6005]

Look at it from a logical roman point of view. One all knowing and perfect God is responsible for all of creation, then why is the world so chaotic, how do you explain storms and earthquakes if it's not jupiter or neptune throwing a fuss.

[@jackj9816]

It was very strange to have only one god as well

[@lillith3159]

I couldn´t stop doing it i cant blame the romans for it...(Pfff...one god, what a bunch of loosers)

[@ravenouscolonelhart]

"We are the most dreadful hypocrites, I'm afraid." lol! James Purefoy's delivery of that line was awesome.

[@blackmoon2128]

An interesting thing, after Anthony was defeated, Herod was then questioned by Octavian about his loyalties, Herod basically held his ground and said 'yes, I was loyal to mark anthony', which impressed octavian and he then liked the king for his resolve and loyalty, rewarding him further and allowing him to stay where he was. If he started to grease and sneak his way out with excuses maybe his fate would have not been the same.

[@Rabithebengali]

and as Augustus, years later, he was enamored of his grandson, Herod, who lived with his niece, while in school in Rome.

[@Rabithebengali]

Interesting

[@MrLantean]

Herod acknowledges his loyalty to Mark Anthony as Anthony's support allows him to become King of Judea. Now that Anthony is dead, Herod declares his loyalty to Octavian in return for supporting his position as king. Octavian is impressed with Herod's loyalty and honestly with the matter and supports his position as King of Judea.

[@Noblebird02]

​@@MrLantean it's interesting that mark Antony was friends with Herod because I read once that Herod disliked Cleopatra (she is referenced in the Talmud as medically experimenting on her slaves)

[@gustavoritter7321]

@@Noblebird02 He indeed desliked her and the Arabs of Petra desliked her too. They even burned her fleet

[@Enriiiiiii]

All mockery of Jews and their one god on this thread shall be kept to a appropriate *Minimum*

[@yawgmoth5662]

I take my commands only from enormously plump Romans.

[@jonathantan2469]

4channers: "Sheeeeit..."

[@vazquezb2011]

@@jonathantan2469 Better repaint those Peppus le Frogus graffiti and lay low.

[@thatoneguy-wr3px]

@@jonathantan2469 pol/ack*

[@jeffmorin5867]

Mock the one Living God at your own peril. He is coming to judge one and all much sooner than anyone thinks.

[@oxmys]

Only one god? It'll never catch on.

[@MAnnaconduit1]

swords and bloodshed can change many things

[@antred11]

oxmys I wish it hadn't.

[@alejandrophilcotorres4123]

+MAnnaconduit1 what bloodshed?

[@MAnnaconduit1]

Thomas Smith really?

[@alejandrophilcotorres4123]

MAnnaconduit1 yes please enlighten me on the bloodshed that needed to be done in order for europe to be christian

[@octaviancaesarhibernicus4447]

pity Herod didn't have a bigger part, that actor looked excellent for it!

[@octaviancaesarhibernicus4447]

Goliath Online after Actium Herod got his blood up and went to Octavian saying "I was loyal to Antony,now I shall be loyal to Caesar"... Octavian knew a ruler of worth when he saw one!

[@mauricio460]

And it would be nice to see the series progressing to Claudius and his friendship with this Herod's grandchild, Herod Agrippa.

[@randomuser6175]

@@mauricio460 for that we need the series of I, Claudius. which i dont understand why no one make that happens

[@nocturnalrecluse1216]

@Goliath Online jesus, Mary and Joseph was myth.

[@nocturnalrecluse1216]

@Goliath Online There is only one artifact that proves that pilot existed, but proof nonetheless. There is only one iron spike that provides physical evidence of Roman crucifixion. You see, to understand history, one must acquire abstract thinking...not a book of fiction.

[@Emp6ft10in]

Bad move Antony. He was offering you a chance to buy his silence.

[@DanRaidersWarriorsSharksGiants]

Posca was a greedy piece of shit. Other than his love for Cesar he didnt give a fuck about anyone but himself.

[@ubelmensch]

"Posca was a greedy piece of shit" And Anthony wasn't? Do we have to point out the irony to you with apples?

[@DanRaidersWarriorsSharksGiants]

I understand I did not add more details to my dislike of Posca. His greed here led to the deaths and murders of innocent people. The people who served and helped serve the man he loved like a son. The only benefit to him to do this was more money for himself. Anthony was greedy also but his came more with political gain vs pure greed like Posca in this example. Even in Egypt based on this storyline Anthony could have used the starving of Rome that he himself caused as a blackmail to come home and have Rome overthrow Octavian which many would have. He could be the sole leader of Rome which would have been by far the most greedy option.

[@MM-vs2et]

If Posca threatened Antony there, he would've died on the spot. Posca is a bit of a selfish slave, because of his time with Caesar, he sees himself as a higher slave, and so when he is free, that personality sticks

[@DanRaidersWarriorsSharksGiants]

Martin Anthonyo He wasn’t a slave at this time which you said and I doubt it had anything to do with what you said unless you blame Cesar teaching him it’s ok to fuck innocent people over? He saw an opportunity to get easy money and took it only problem is innocent people would be hurt or murdered to make it happen and they were. Anthony should have offered him a small amount of money but Posca was so greedy he could still have robbed for more anyway.

[@ragzaugustus]

I'll always smile at the "appropriate minimum" part of the announcement, they understand that some mockery is always going to be there.

[@Onigirli]

Who's the best character in a show brimming with worthy contenders and why is it the orator? A true Roman question, for true Romans

[@michaelfisher7170]

The funny thing is that for the elite in Rome, anyway, while the Jewish religious set up was weird they had a sincere respect for its antiquity. Jews were only "requested", never told..to pray to their one God for the emperor and the empire, and were always exempted from decrees...aimed at Christians especially, to offer sacrifice to the gods for emperor and empire. But they couldn't stand being a province in that empire. So Titus burned it all down.

[@Kncperseus]

When ancient Rome had more Freedom of Speech and Expression than China and USA nowadays.

[@LordVader1094]

@@Kncperseus Unless you criticized the Emperor.

[@TheGreenTaco999]

@@LordVader1094 we're talking about the Roman Republic, not the Roman Empire.

[@likeriver]

1:01 - 1:15 Total War diplomacy in a nutshell

[@RGInquisitor]

Terms: Accept or we will attack. Demands: Please do not attack. Yep, just like Total War!

[@sadiqahmed4143]

Roman diplomacy at it's finest and

[@donnymoney4222]

@@RGInquisitor lmfao for some reason I keep getting offered to become a protectorate for a juncha money and then attacked by rome, this happens constantly to me what is up with that?

[@R3dp055um]

What gets me is how Posca's eyes go sideways when Antony says "we speak with one voice".

[@maciek523]

"Congratulations Herod, you have the full backing of Rome" I would have shit my pants with joy

[@MM-vs2et]

Your wallet might not be

[@nightlightabcd]

There was nothing joyfull about it, for now Israel was a slave of Rome, and the "gift" would disappear.

[@RexGalilae]

Rome was just as great an ally as it was a dangerous enemy

[@firingallcylinders2949]

@@RexGalilae Rome treated its provinces and vassals fairly well. Pop culture has this idea that it constantly beat down people within its Empire. Granted, if you rebelled they were merciless, but if you didn't cause trouble and accepted Roman rule they were good to you usually.

[@RexGalilae]

@@firingallcylinders2949 Exactly. Not just their own provinces but their clients, vassals and even neighbouring tribes. Most people don't realise that incisive diplomacy was always Rome's greatest asset.

[@Gala-yp8nx]

'I would rather be one of Herod's pigs than one of his sons." - Augustus.

[@Andrewza1]

While he killed his sons not his pigs. İt was a safer longer life.

[@Bonservisjohnny]

@@Andrewza1 and his wife for being too beautiful

[@Vsm426]

@@Bonservisjohnny seriously?

[@Bonservisjohnny]

@@Vsm426 yeah ffs

[@emameyer]

unlikely that Herod would have pigs...

[@MaloPiloto]

Ah, that James Purefoy as Mark Antony. You can detect the menace even in his humor. Great acting job!

[@baldrick2352]

Thought I was watching Joe Carroll in Roman armour.

[@deploribusrex4480]

The fact that this series ended after a mere two seasons on-air gives me a sad to this day.

[@skeeterfinklage445]

Blame Dexter. That shitty show came out a year after Rome and they scrapped Rome and gave the show that was only good for 2 season 8, and threw away a show that was good for 20 seasons only giving it 2.

[@info_fox]

It was gold... what a cast of characters

[@BoopSnoot]

Ironically, while the show depicts the Jews bowing down to Rome, it was Rome that was cancelled by the Jewish executives funding the series, as it really wasn't pushing the narrative they had hoped for.

[@elyastoohey6621]

It’s because it was HBO’s first true foray into a high budget, high violence, high sex show. It didn’t help that in mid 2000’s in my country they only aired this at like 11pm on a Monday night. If rome released today it would dominate. I’d argue it was the first A grade tv show. Also very much helped that John Milius was one of the lead writers for it. But the cost, against a viewership that wasn’t ready for such a big tv show (HBO had the wire, but even that was grounded as a crime show, when the big shows of the day for night viewing were like Law and order etc.) Audiences and broadcasters were just not ready for Rome. And it remains a stand up show to this day. Think about what we can air now, especially in streaming platforms. You couldn’t air that 16 years ago. You’d be taken off. That’s why we only got one amazing series, and one rushed series. Season 2 was originally meant to end with Octavian in exile/military tutoring. Season 3 was meant to be the downfall of lepidus and Antony. Season 4 was the reign of Octavian. Season 5 was actually meant to hint at the birth of Jesus, as we see early on the development of Tymon the horse dealer Jew plot line, as well as Herod’s presence in season 2 (which was always meant to happen, but the original plans had that leading on to much more) I’m going to say it. The truly great episode in season 2 was episode 1, and maybe the episode where the triumvirate is drawn up. We don’t even get to see the battle of Actium or the lane campaign fought because of budget and timing.

[@ichabowesi]

@@elyastoohey6621 it’s amazing how much you know about this! I’m actually super interested if you have any more details. I really, really wish we could have seen this show in its intended form.

[@HaNsWiDjAjA]

With his 20,000 pounds of gold bribe Herod was basically hiring the Roman army itself to be his mercenaries! That sum was equivalent to about 240,000 lbs of silver, at a 12:1 exchange rate thats typical for the precious metals back then. The Romans' basic unit of currency, the denarius, was 1/72th of a Roman pound of silver at the time of Caesar, hence Herod's bribe was worth 17.28 million denarii, or 2,880 talents. Since an Augustan era legionary made 225 denarii per year, from which the army deducted the cost of his equipment and food, Herod's "gift" would be enough to pay an army of 76,800 legionaries, or FIFTEEN LEGIONS, for an entire year! To give a perspective of how large a force that was, note that Caesar never had more than 11 legions during the whole of the Gallic War, or the Civil War that followed it. Another way of thinking about it was that Crassus, reputedly the richest Roman of this time period and Caesar's former political partner, was reportedly worth 200 million sestercii, or 50 million denarii. So Herod's gift to Antony was worth around one third of Crassus' fortune, a truly enormous sum indeed.

[@AJudgeFredd]

John Huang Man could have bought 400.000 eastern mercenaries ;)

[@MrAwrsomeness]

+John Huang So he could pay for half the roman army for an entire year, surprised jews just didn't buy mercenaries.

[@HaNsWiDjAjA]

MrAwrsomeness In fact, Herod's army in later times was composed largely of mercenaries. He had men coming to serve him from as far away as Gaul and Thrace.

[@MrAwrsomeness]

John Huang Okay that makes more sense.

[@Zamolxes77]

Yeah but those were not worth much, martial skill wise, 1 legionary counted as 10 of them

[@saint_jimmy9978]

Rome: Btw we'll have two full legions stationed in your province for 'security purposes' Herod: That wasn't part of the deal Rome: I am altering the deal...pray I do not alter it any further

[@tonyh1718]

Lol

[@robertlehnert4148]

Amazing that Herod had the audacity, after Anthony was dead, to approach Octavian/Augustus and say "just as my loyalty to Anthony was unquestioned, so will my transferred loyalty be to you"--and Augustus accepted it.

[@richstex4736]

Old Augustus knew how to play the game.

[@neutronalchemist3241]

I have a feeling this Herod guy will be a good ruler. He seems a nice guy.

[@MCshadr217]

@V. V It's funny how people can paint out these historical figures as "tyrants" or "evil". Or that they did some terrible things. News flash, it's the ancient era. You either bribe your way to a ripe old age, or die young by a sword or blade to the back. Yes, it's a minor stain. We can easily say the same thing about many leaders. What about Leonidas from Greece? The first person who showed that, even with small numbers, you can defy a much larger enemy. Were they all sunshine and rainbows? Fuck no. So why judge them based on the standards that Humans have today?

[@alexanderchristopher6237]

@@MCshadr217 judge them by present standard? Herod was judged for his cruel deeds even when he's still alive in the 1st century CE. Chroniclers such as Josephus (alive in 1st century CE during the reign of Herod's successors) wrote about how detestable Herod was. It shows that, even though people have more tolerance for violence back then, they still consider such acts of violence as bad. Even Augustus Caesar, the man who agreed to have Herod as a tributary king of Rome, couldn't stomach Herod's cruelty. "It's better to be Herod's pig than son," he reportedly said when receiving news of Herod killing his sons.

[@illyrian9976]

@@MCshadr217 Refrain from ever talking about history if you have not even the slightest clue about it.

[@kittykattzee]

KrazyKiwi if you actually read history you’ll know exactly why he’s considered a tyrant. Hell, even the Jewish Encyclopedia got a whole section on how shit he is.

[@thejumpmaster8728]

@@MCshadr217 leonidas never killed his wife lolol

[@The_OneManCrowd]

The actor playing King Herod is amazing!

[@IbnShahid]

He is. I’d like to have seen more of him. I also like how he showed how a canny vassal state ruler could stand up for himself against Rome. It’s not what you’d normally expect.

[@The_OneManCrowd]

@@IbnShahid I agree but, Herod is the exact reason the Romans ended up in Judea; they did it to themselves.

[@laerwen]

Rene Zagger is amazing. I know him as Emet-Selch from Final Fantasy 14 and I am in awe of his range.

[@airsir9559]

Reminds me of the guy that played Darius in Alexander

[@Tiger74147]

That announcer at the beginning KILLS it. I think I'd enjoy being a talent scout for actors...

[@BigBennKlingon]

That guy is pretty enjoyable throughout the entire series

[@badjokemaker3051]

That's Baron Harkonnen!

[@Tiger74147]

Hah! Does he have a bigger role in this series, or was this the only time he popped up?

[@BigBennKlingon]

he just does announcements, but he does it every second episode or so

[@AximandTheCursed]

Perfectly cast, as was the vast majority of the actors in this series.

[@Chrisiamtheluciddream]

Too bad we didn't get to see this actor more as Herod. He really gives off the perfect vibe as I imagine a young Herod was.

[@agenttheater5]

Least in 'i Claudius' they remembered to give his grandson Herod Agrippa plenty of screen time - talked a lot about his grandfather's merciless ways in that show.

[@wanderinghistorian]

Antony: "Keep your Jews in line." Herod: "They will do what I say..." *The Sicarii have entered the chat*

[@CodaMission]

Hellenized Jews have left the chat

[@andrewg.carvill4596]

That reminds me of the story about the Spanish general who lost a walled town, because he put all his Basques in one exit.

[@eho6380]

They were basically the ancient version of radical muslims.

[@Yoseman1]

@@eho6380 Or....are they still? It's not Muslims holding an indigenous peoples on their own land in an apartheid state....

[@eho6380]

@@Yoseman1 Except that non-muslims in Islamic countries live in an apartheid state based on Islam.

[@patrickdeoliveira75]

Sounds like 20,000 lbs of gold was the equivalent of Dr. Evil's "One million dollars!". Herod accepted that one pretty quickly.

[@Zamolxes77]

You fail to understand how rich and profitable Judeea was. 20 thousand lbs of gold and you have Rome's backing to be the King of a land that sits right smack in the middle of all ancient trade routes: Egypt to the south, Rome to the west, Parthia and Silk Road to the east, Black Sea to the north. I think he got a bargain price.

[@slothfromthegoonies8201]

Zamolxes77 Yeah, the Colosseum in Rome was funded by the gold which the Romans had looted from the Jewish temple in Jerusalem, after the Jewish Rebellion.

[@y.r._]

@@slothfromthegoonies8201 *angry hava naguila noises*

[@jabronisauce6833]

@@Zamolxes77 He'd simply be a puppet ruler and not have true power and would not be free to do as he see's fit lol

[@newvegasify1]

@@jabronisauce6833 Better a client king than not a king.

[@gerardjagroo]

Anthony should have paid Posca a share to keep him quiet and to keep him sweet. This is why at the end people abandoned Anthony en masse for one who seemed more open handed. A competent bureaucrat like Posca was worth his weight in gold but Anthony was to short sighted to see it. When you're in a duel to the death with someone like Octavius you need to have established a reputation as a fair kind and open handed master, that way competent people flock to your cause and give you their full support. Caesar understood this, Octavius understood it, Anthony didn't and that's one of the reasons he lost.

[@marcoslaureano5562]

Antony was a great military man. He understood fighting and led his troops well - but he was an awful politician. Whenever he was left in charge he always cocked it up.

[@EmptyMan000]

@@marcoslaureano5562 Most military men make shit politicians. They're meant to be attack dogs, not statesmen.

[@malsomakawlni3228]

You'd do the same as Antony. Sure as hell. If that much comes to you. It's a sure thing. You'd do it, i promised. You'd do it. I swear to God. You'd do it like Antony. Faaaak u. 😂😂😂

[@Gwaithmir]

The historical Posca moved to Greece after Octavian's triumph and became a wealthy merchant.

[@dhlhthriwdhskissos9606]

Gwaithmir was posca indeed greek ? His name certainly doesn't look like it

[@reginatang9310]

I thought that Posca is a fictional character.

[@MM-vs2et]

@@dhlhthriwdhskissos9606 His accent, I thought was italian, or latin, but that couldn't be since anyone speaking english are speaking latin, so it must be Greek based on his appearance

[@dhlhthriwdhskissos9606]

@@MM-vs2et in his looks , he could indeed , but his name sure isn't

[@MM-vs2et]

kissos man a slave’s name is probably whatever their master call them

[@Focusyn]

If you can't mock Jews and their one god then life isn't worth living.

[@octaviancaesarhibernicus4447]

Gaius Julius Caesar Augustus Germanicus you ever watch I,Claudius and Augustus is perplexed that the Jews have only one God,he tells Herod "you can have some of ours if you want", the response was along the lines of " our one is hard enough to please Caesar "!

[@vazquezb2011]

Just keep it to a minimum for the duration of HM King Herod's visit. And Augustus, worry more about keeping an eye on Marcus Antonius' sharing gifts with the triumvirate

[@octaviancaesarhibernicus4447]

+vazquezb2011 Seeing as we are discussing HBO's Rome,Octavian wasn't bothered too much about the gold,he had bigger fish to fry,I'd say he constantly collected payoffs,he said it himself in another episode "there's a thousand rich dukes and satraps who want to be king".

[@olliephelan]

believe it or not , theres no strict regulation that a "Jew" believe in any god , in order to be a jewish . In the same way that Arabs are not necessarily Moslem

[@OceanHedgehog]

Just keep it to an acceptable minimum, bud

[@laurencekress2752]

Herod outmaneuvered Antony and Posca in the negotiation by getting him to name a price first. Had he been forced to give a number first, Antony would have known more about the liquid assets at his disposal. He wasn't, and Antony had gone with Posca's advice, which clearly underestimated what Herod willing to pony up for the Romans' backing. Antony made out like a bandit anyway, but, as others have noted, he was a greedy, short-sighted fool for not splitting the "gift" with the other members of the triumvirate.

[@HansenDing]

You're absolutely right about the short sightedness. Notice how in this show, Antony is always fighting over every bit of coin, from skimming off of Caesar to even negotiating in 5% increments with somebody like Vorenus, who was clearly willing to die for you. And even if he wanted the bulk of the 20,000 how much could it have possibly cost percentage-wise to cut Posca in on the deal in exchange for Posca's silence. But no, he wanted the entirety of the 20,000. Meanwhile Caesar & Octavian were much less concerned with keeping every single piece of gold. "If my last gold buys me a crown it will have been worth it" etc. Obviously the Julii were fabulously wealthy and ancient patricians so you can argue money was less of an object for them, but Antony wasn't exactly from a common birth. His grandfather was consul (so Antony was a nobile) and his stepfather was as old patrician as the Julii.

[@MCshadr217]

@@HansenDing Don't take the shows perspective of Antony as correct. He was actually quite the opposite, and was well known for spending money that he didn't even have. He always had a soft spot for his friends and those of the lower class. Also, he was no noble. He may have had connections, but he was definitely not a noble. He was a Military Tribune, in which was a title held by the Plebian class in the Senate. That alone should tell you his heritage.

[@mrt8944]

So that's how we must negotiate salary with HR in 21st century... Thanks Herod

[@wikipediaintellectual7088]

He might’ve outmaneuvered them, but it’s still 20,000 pounds of gold. They didn’t seem to bothered by it.

[@brucetucker4847]

@@MCshadr217 Quit making comments that only show how little you know about actual history. Antony's family was absolutely noble, military tribune was a completely different office from tribune of the plebs, and nobility as it existed in Rome at this time had nothing whatsoever to do with the patrician or plebeian orders. Pompey, Brutus, and Cato were all plebeians who were also nobiles. Aside from certain religious considerations and the bar on being a tribune of the plebs, patrician status meant little more in 1st century BCE Rome than being part of the hereditary peerage means in the UK today - which is to say really nothing beyond a certain social cachet based on the the fact that your ancestors were important people 300 years ago or more.

[@teddykgb3865]

I was never clear on why Posca worked for Antony. Given his history with Caesar it would have made since for him to stick with Octavian.

[@WJstudios04]

Because Antony was the closest friend of Caesar and Posca was with them for years. These three were bonded forever.

[@teddykgb3865]

Perhaps. I think Octavian would have treated him with more respect.

[@darj617]

Antony was Caesar's number 2, a proven general who commanded respect from soldiers and had the love of the people while Octavian was a mere boy with nothing but a noble name. No one expected him to have a meteoric rise when he entered public life, so it seems like a no brainer for Posca to choose Antony as his patron.

[@bobofthestorm]

Posca was confident in Antony as a General and it only made sense that he should back Antony given that whatever Antony lacked in Politics, he could fill that role. Playing the role that alleviated some of Antony's weaknesses was a great career opportunity with a decent chance of upward mobility for Posca to become a man of his own right. Octavion was green. No one expected Octavion to be competent in both Politics and War.

[@uninterruptedrhythm4104]

@@bobofthestorm Only Julius Caesar foresaw that Octavian would be competent in his own right, there's a reason why he made him his heir after all. After Octavian visited Caesar they were stuck with him for a few months and from their conversations during those months Julius was able to discern that Octavian was one sharp kid and had potential.

[@dorkmax7073]

Romans: We assimilate the Gods of our vassals into our pantheon, and ask the same. What of your gods? Jews: Well, we have one now. We used to have others, but they were demons come to tempt us. Romans: Strange, but I'm listening. Jews: We believe all life on the mortal plane is suffering and only God brings pleasure. Roman: I like it, very Norse germanic. I assume, then, that you are a warring people and your God demands combat? Jews: Actually, he doesn't, and Heaven might not even exist. Romans: Wh- why do you even believe this depressing shit? Jews: *Shrugs* Why stop now?

[@warhawk9566]

And then the Romans did exactly that. Assimilate Judaism to create Christianity, and spread it all through their empire

[@johnlavery3433]

Christianity assimilated rome

[@Britishwolf89]

@@warhawk9566 Romans didn't properly embrace Christianity for centuries after the supposed death of Jesus Christ. They actually witnessed his miracles and his "resurrection" and they didn't give a shit, I wonder why? They didn't assimilate it at all, in fact you could argue Christianity assimilated itself many times over two thousand years in an attempt to constantly remain relevant. The Romans did not invent Christianity either.

[@atakan2255]

romans didnt expand their panteons i think you are thinking of hittites

[@DP-nx6vg]

@@warhawk9566 They did quite the opposite. They broke up the jews, spread them throughout the empire and merely fused the province with the area around it, not regarding heritage (thank you for that romans, going reaaal good almost 2000 years later) Christians were barely a sect in the beginning, and were often prosecuted and disregarded.

[@user-nh3gu1ge3d]

For some context, that's around 745 million dollars today. (20,000 lbs x 16 oz/lb x $2,327.36/oz)

[@Isildun9]

Hands down, my favorite of all the announcements made by Ian McNiece in this show.

[@GeorgeEugeneBarrett]

It’s a crime the show was cancelled.

[@dorianphilotheates3769]

So impressive is Ian McNeice as the forum newsreader (Praeco), that I’ve decided to take up Roman public oratory, study the works of Demosthenes, Cicero, and Quintilian in earnest, and put on twelve stone.

[@K-Boogie7999]

Amazing series but it’s a damn shame that it ended prematurely

[@agenttheater5]

There's always 'I Claudius' if you're interested in a different portrayal of what happened in Rome next. Very different portrayal of the former Octavius Caesar now Emperor Augustus - though some say he was both the ruthless, merciless, cunning man we meet in 'Rome' and in Shakespeare's plays and also the friendlier family man we meet in 'I Claudius' - not that Brian Blessed's Augustus couldn't be scary when he was angry.....

[@eddiewinehosen6665]

Spiraling costs and not enough viewers sadly led to it's cancellation. It was HBO's first foray into big budget production, if this had come 5-10 years later it would've been a massive hit and we would've got many more seasons. As it is we have to be happy we at least got these two epics seasons to enjoy!

[@Mourtzouphlos240]

@@eddiewinehosen6665 I was around to watch it from the start and my problem was I already knew the story. About 90% or Rome's storyline was already in Shakespeare and it was boring for the most part. On rewatch I appreciated it much more.

[@artur19846]

"Posca, ever since you got your freedom, you've become insufferably greedy". OMG, this show was a MASTERPIECE! The irony is that the actor who plays Posca is an Israeli from Haifa.

[@michaeldukes4108]

Not sure who you’re thinking of, but Nicholas Woodeson, the actor who plays Posca, is an Englishman.

[@artur19846]

@@michaeldukes4108 I read at Imdb.com thst he lived in Israel, maybe he is a Brit but his accent sound a bit middle eastern

[@eho6380]

He played in Schindler's list

[@delukard07]

@@eho6380 hes also in a very well acted movie called " conspiracy"

[@davidemelia6296]

He was born in Sudan and grew up in Haifa - his father was apparently a bank manager, and was transferred there.

[@antonivsfortis]

Like how far is little screen time as Herod's character got they still managed to show that he is a paranoid guy by nature

[@stag.3526]

Herod grew up in Rome... his family was one of many exchanged as "hostages", to ensure peaceful relations between neighboring nations/empires. Herod and Octavian, according to period writings, were friends, and it was Octavian who asked Herod to stand as Judea's client-king, not the other way around, as shown here.

[@Xerxes2005]

You are confusing Herod the Great, which we are seeing in this clip, with Herod Agrippa I, his grandson, who indeed grew up in Rome and was a friend of future emperor Claudius. Herod the Great was raised as a Jew in Judea.

[@petekdemircioglu]

International hostages they were

[@la_scrittice_vita]

You are confusing this Herod with his grandson.

[@alexanderchristopher6237]

Different Herod. This is Herod the Great, raised as a Jew in Judea. Destroyed the Maccabean dynasty once and for all. Killed the babies of Bethlehem just to kill Jesus. Hated by the Jews, especially the Pharisees. That’s his grandson you’re talking about. Raised in Rome, befriended emperors Claudius and Caligula. In fact, he was in Rome when Caligula was assassinated and he was the one who helped pushed Claudius to be emperor after Caligula. Later returned to rule his grandfather’s kingdom. Got Herod Antipas of Galilee and Herodias (murderer of John the Baptist) exiled. Killed the apostle James and imprisoned Peter. Unlike other Herods, he was loved by the Jews. Died due to an angel of God striking him.

[@RexGalilae]

By historical accounts, he was a Hellenized Arab whose distant ancestors had embraced Jewish faith and culture and recent ones, Greek culture. I'm sure, in his trip to Rome, he probably wore Hellenic garments and spoke Greek. He'd have been perceived as a Greek embassador by an onlooker who didn't know him. I'm sure he didn't show up looking like a full blown Jew, especially given how the Hellenic world looked down on their culture

[@richardmalcolm1457]

They do the same thing with the Ptolemaic court, ratcheting up Egyptian fashion, arms, and architecture to anachronistic levels. My guess is that the showrunners felt the need to visually "signpost" every faction or realm for the audience, who might be too confused by a large array of Hellenistic configured characters.

[@RexGalilae]

@@richardmalcolm1457 I think so too. I still think the Jewish appearance of Herod has lesser truth to it. The Ptolemaic court did have a lot of native egyptians and locally, the later Ptolemies did try hard to blend in with the locals, fashioning themselves as Pharaohs. But I agree that the pomp and show was just reserved for the public

[@yoniwolf6008]

He was half Arab from his mother side

[@eho6380]

Jews wore Hellenic clothes according to historical accounts like the rest of the Roman Empire. So Herod would likely have worn similar clothes as the Roman elite.

[@aleksandarstavric2226]

Arabs are Jewish by origin

[@danielholt1984]

The announcers rye smile after he says no mocking the jews while Herod is in town is priceless

[@ardshielcomplex8917]

Herod wasnt actually a Jew.

[@gaius_enceladus]

@danielholt1984 - It's "wry smile". Rye is a type of grain.

[@danielholt1984]

@@gaius_enceladus which type?

[@FrantiC119]

The costume design is so good on this show.

[@sellingthesecondamendment.2954]

Marc Anthony should have given Tosca something. Pay your workers or they'll betray you.

[@trueromancat7978]

As sources say, on the contrary to the story shown here, Antony was rather extremely generous to the people he liked for some reasons, especially those who were of lower position. This is exactly why sources blame him for wastefulness and prodigality. And that was also the reason, why the nobles hated him, and the plebs loved him. The scene is probably made for the later plot reasons.

[@sellingthesecondamendment.2954]

Isabella H I used to work at an advertising agency that decided to raise thousands of dollars for MS and gave everyone who rode in the MS ride, a free bike. Generous? Not really, those bastards kept my salary low, didn't give bonuses, didn't give raises. So were they really generous? Not really. Generous people take care of those that make them the money. At my current company, I got a $250 bonus from the company, and my direct manager gave me $50 and a bottle of wine. So you see, I can understand how Tosca feels, Anthony wasn't generous with him. Yes the plebs loved Anthony, so did the soldiers, the guy was a noble that wasn't afraid to get down to earth. I love that seen with the two romans eating a crappy meal in the rain, and suddenly Anthony shows up with a huge boar and says "let's eat." What a great commander, right? Too bad he didn't do the same for Tosca. I guess he forgot Tosca was no longer a slave at that time.

[@MagnificentFiend]

Posca! Tosca is an opera :¬)

[@HaloFTW55]

Bit late but Antony himself *IS* a Pleb, had he not been one he would have never been eligible to be elected for the position of Tribune of the Plebs. The Tribunes of the Plebs MUST to be a Pleb, otherwise it’d render the position moot.

[@brucetucker4847]

@@HaloFTW55 Plebs is used incorrectly by almost everyone discussing this show. Most of the wealthiest, most powerful, and most distinguished families in late Republican Rome were plebeian, and many of the old patrician families had either died out or sunk into poverty and obscurity (as Caesar's had before they allied themselves with Marius). A few of the old patrician gentes were still prominent and powerful (particularly the Aemilii, Cornelii and Claudii) but they did not dominate the Senate the way they had 400 years earlier.

[@Rome274]

" They will do as I say, or suffer the consequences !" A real despotic bastard. Also Antony should have given Posca a cut. Lol

[@puzzlejinx]

My main man Emet-Selch

[@rogerw3818]

The news reader was such a great character. He could shift is "enthusiasm" as the fortunes of the powerful ebbed and flowed.

[@waqarsaleem8611]

They ended this series and went on making a series that scared it's fans from winter, and then the winter lasted barely 15 minutes after all that hype of 8 long years.

[@fakeplaystore7991]

>could have gotten multiple seasons of political Roman drama >got DA KING OF DA NOFTH! instead We live in a cursed timeline.

[@SacredDaturaa]

Herod's actor here (Rene Zagger) also plays Emet-Selch in Final Fantasy XIV. Can't unhear the resemblance once you know!

[@Phyrefly6]

Amazing actor. Love him as Emet-Selch.

[@christopherladka2463]

Should have called on Zodiark to win the throne of Judea

[@SuperAerie]

The news-announcer is the true star of the show

[@warhawk9566]

He might as well have given his adviser a piece of paper that says "please stab me in the back"

[@MrHeadSet1]

i love this fat guy, he is the best character

[@bogi18]

I was totally expecting him to throw in at the end of the conversation "One last thing, there's this prophecy circling lately of a new boy king being born, some Messiah or whoever.. any suggestions on how to deal with the issue?"

[@ZZZZZZ-ek2pq]

Christ wouldn't have gained notoriety for quite a bit after this

[@christosvoskresye]

In part that's because He wasn't even born until several decades later.

[@ZZZZZZ-ek2pq]

christosvoskresye Yeah I'm aware.

[@generalcaesar3477]

Also things like that were common in the near east at the time. Anthony and by extension Rome would only fear the real eastern power of the Parthian Persians as opposed to the mythical power of a promised messiah

[@octaviancaesarhibernicus4447]

General Caesar its the dumbest fucking question I've ever heard on here! Jesus???

[@Awaichan]

well now i need to watch this... anyone else come here because they needed to put a face to the voice of Emet-Selch?

[@RendMaim]

yep lol

[@ptolemyglenn79]

Fun fact Cleopatra VII had Marc Antony give her back parts of Judea from Herod. Herod hated Cleopatra and wanted her murdered. When he killed one of his wives, his mother in law fled to Cleopatra for protection.

[@Dzugoslav]

Mark Anthony making deal with Ascians confirmed.

[@RendMaim]

this

[@Michael.96]

"I said we should have asked for more." :D

[@annascott3542]

James Purefoy’s portrayal of Antony is the freakin best!!! Love it!!

[@ThrillaWhale]

“An appropriate minimum”. Lol.

[@cautarepvp2079]

0:44 lol Antony never dissapoints with his lines ahahah

[@kababyenoh]

Nose and money jokes shall be kept to an "appropriate minimum".

[@matthewmatt5285]

That was the Hook ; )

[@Mister_Beano]

2:03-2:08, anyone know what kingdom/country Herod's African guards are from? I've seen them before in the movie Alexander during Gaugamela and I have no idea who they are

[@missyadams]

mostly Nubians

[@tomace4898]

"You must guarantee, of course, to keep your Jews in line." *[Jesus Christ has entered the chat]*

[@-Zakhiel-]

Jesus Christ was borned I think more or less 30 years after this scene... And it would take another 30 years before he became a problem for the religious power in Judea.

[@hiramabiff2017]

What a wealth of world class acting and great entertainment this series was. We shall never see such great acting again.

[@LKaramazov]

I haven’t watched Rome in years. This scene almost has me signing up for hbo!

[@ProjectMathesar]

1:09 lol that’s the kind of moment where you realize you didn’t even come close to their bargaining limit

[@EdVarkarion]

It's a shame that Rome got canned before it could touch on Herod ruling as king. Like I can imagine Herod meeting Augustus saying "sorry about massacring all the infants in that village, I was told one of them would threaten me one day" and Augustus just looks at him like a crazy person.

[@vuho2075]

20,000 pounds of gold. Had no idea Netanyahu was so wealthy...

[@F40PH-2CAT]

It really caused them to warp the time-line...the events of season 2 took place, for real over a 15 year period.

[@John-doe955]

Actually its believed that Herod may not have actually been the one to order that massacre of infants, or atleast not the one show in the clip(because for some reason rulers always liked to name their children after themselves and that cause problems in historical recordings.

[@ToxicallyMasculinelol]

@@John-doe955 No, this must be Herod I, aka Herod the Great, because of the timing. But this would have been long before the massacre of the innocents, if indeed it happened. The Second Triumvirate lasted 43-32 BC. Herod I ruled beginning sometime between 40-37 BC and his children ruled beginning either 4 BC or 1 BC. So, he is asking for Roman support in taking control of the Hasmonean district of Judea, to institute it as a kingdom with him at its head. Which is exactly what happened historically. At his death, he divided the kingdom up between his children, whereupon they became tetrarchs, rulers of a quarter of his kingdom. So it couldn't have been Herod Antipas in this scene because Herod Antipas was not even born yet. It couldn't have been Herod Archelaus either for the same reason, but also because when Herod I died, Herod Archelaus succeeded him to the throne of Judea. So he wouldn't have needed help from Rome in the first place. It's true Herod Antipas could have begged Rome for help in usurping his brother, but historically that never happened. It was against Rome's interests to do something like that anyway. Instead, Judea (Herod Archelaus' tetrarchy, a Roman client state) was turned by Augustus into a Roman province under imperial control. So the dialogue only fits with the first Herod, Herod the Great. He named his children after him, but they weren't born until ~20-30 BC, and Marcus Antonius died in 30 BC. And it couldn't have been some other Herod because no other Herod of any political consequence existed during the Second Triumvirate. That's why Herod the Great is Herod I, that is, Herod the first. And Herod I is the king accused in the Gospels of the massacre of the innocents. However, the massacre of the innocents, if it was a real historical event, must have taken place at the end of Herod I's reign. That's basically how it's portrayed in the Bible anyway. It clearly must have coincided with Jesus' birth, which is generally agreed to be around 4 BC. Some historians say that is the year Herod I's reign ended. Others say it ended 3 years later in 1 BC. Either way it's at the tail end of his reign, which began 37 BC. The Synoptic Gospels are especially detailed in their dating, providing all sorts of landmarks in time, particularly the reigns of political figures. So there's a pretty secure date for these events. Shortly after the massacre of the innocents, Herod would have died and split Judea into tetrarchies. Then, the next Herod the Gospels speak of is Herod Antipas, the one who executed John the Baptist. So Herod, in this scene, would not have committed the massacre of the innocents yet. This would have been during Herod's late 20s, early 30s, before he was king of Judea. After all, he's asking Marcus Antonius (a proxy for the Roman Senate) to help him take the throne of Judea. And indeed, the Roman Senate helped him take the throne of Judea in 37 BC. So this scene must have been before 37 BC. Certainly sometime around 40 BC. We know that because in 41 BC, Marcus Antonius named Herod and his brother Phasael as ethnarchs under Hyrcanus II and his nephew. Josephus tells us that the Roman Senate named Herod Rex Judaeorum during the consulship of Calvinus and Pollio, which was 40 BC. Appian says it happened the year after. Either way, that's long before the massacre of the innocents. At this point in time, Herod should have had a relatively clean slate. Within a decade, Marcus Antonius was dead. And within a few more decades, Jesus of Nazareth was born, which is when the Gospel according to Matthew places the massacre of the innocents.

[@anonUK]

Augustus wouldn't have given a flying toss- unless there were Roman citizens there at the time.

[@rebelthedog9000]

So odd seeing Emet Selch in other stuff... Such a good actor. (here from FFXIV shadowbringers)

[@roetheboat1]

We do know that Emet-Selch was quite the gifted statesman himself, so it makes sense here. :D

[@raddudeman1652]

"_All mockery of Jews and their one god shall be kept to an appropriate minimum._" I swear on Styx, what is this impiety?!

[@LCFC81]

The ancient Roman equivalent of Baron Harkonnen's suspensors is a plinth.

[@TeutonicKnight92]

while Romans accepted bribes, it was considered extremely un-Roman one not to stay bought. They had a certain honor about it.

[@illerac84]

This is not 4 b.c. Augustus has not yet even defeated Antony to become sole ruler of the Empire. This is sometime between the years 43 and 33 B.C. The man shown here as Prince Herod is the son of Antipater the Idumaean, and will eventually become, Herod the Great. The political strife between him and Cleopatra is some great reading.

[@heihei3453]

1:22. Funny you should mention that. In about 30 years there will be this carpenter's son....

[@obiwanfx]

to whom it may concern a little calculation in regards of the bribe's worth by 2 standards: The roman measurement of a talent was about 70 pounds of gold, which would make the bribe equal to about 285 talents. 1 gold aureus was 1/40th of a pound of gold and worth 25 denari so 20.000*40*25=20 million denarii . a general labor/soldiers wage was 1 denarius a day so that means 54,794 year's wages. You can insert your own countries average year's wage to determine the purchasing power but to set an example: In belgium an average year's wage is 18k so the bribe would be *986.292.000 euro* which makes *1.224.851.378* US Dollars. Taking into account the rough estimate of the standard of a year's wage, I think it's a good conclusion to say he gave Anthony about a billion euro/dollars in todays worth for Judea HOWEVER the bible mentions a golden talent be worth 6000 denarii which would make the bribe 1,710,000 day's wages or 4,685 year's wages which would make it about 84,330,000 in todays dollars/euros which if that being the case indeed isn't nearly enough for a rich country like Judea

[@cocainelsdxtc]

i've read that a soldier makes 2.5 x more than an average laborer

[@alnavarijo2100]

So why was I only getting paid 8.50 $ an hr...in 2009 ?😊😊☺ I know I can't take it with me ....I just want enough to get there..😊😊

[@brendanburgess2071]

Posca: Hey can I get some money for all my work. Marc Antony: You have you freedom and you want wages too! What a selfish bastard.

[@Conan_the_Based]

Some random trivia : If you've ever heard of the Siege of Masada where the jews held firm against a Roman assault, Herod is the one who had it built. It was never meant to be a true fortress, but rather a hiding place for his family in case of revolt, which is why it was overcome so soundly.

[@aryakeepsafe816]

" They will do as I say or they will suffer the consequences!" Typical Herod . He was a ruthless b*stard at the best of times.

[@LillianSteele-u9v]

This version is Anthony with a sense of humor and a little of Brando added for good measure.

[@JohnLee-ov5pe]

This scene is perfect. We need season 3

[@agenttheater5]

And then in 'I Claudius' we meet his grandson Herod Agrippa - "he isn't a very nice man lady, he had my father's head chopped off soon after I was born".

[@garlicjrmade6409]

this series was way better then sparticus!

[@rogerpenna]

because it tried to be historical. Spartacus only tried to sell violence and sex.

[@K-Boogie7999]

Garlicjr Made Spartacus had a lot of unnecessary CGI

[@chad6815]

Hell no!!! Don't get me wrong, I like this series but Spartacus was raw and graphic. It didn't hold anything back.

[@jasonbeck9457]

No fucking shit genius!

[@BrightLit712]

No! Spartacus is matchless

[@nicholasnelson8641]

Mark Anthony should have asked for at least 30,000

[@gb1oke]

Of course The Architect is responsible for all this

[@Skolotoi]

It is roughly $400 000 000 ($399 204 550. 26) currently, in modern gold price. If 1 Denarii was $20, and 1 troy oz = 91 denarii, that gives us about $1824 for 1 troy oz back in the times of early empire. That means that approximately, gold had about an equal purchasing power back in the day, as it is valued today. To conclude, 20 000 roman lbs. (as described by you) would be nearly $400 000 000, which is a hefty bribe, i must say.

[@alfredenisz4775]

The reason why Harod was backed by Octavian was because Cleaopatra could not stand him. Harod and Mark Anthony were friends but in the end, Anthony supported Cleopatra and thus did not make an enemy of Octavian and was allowed to continue to rule Judea. Harods father saved Julius Caesear's ass when he was in Egypt and thus secured his position as king of Judea. Very interesting politics that interfaces with the New Testament.

[@mauricio460]

And yet, Herod was a more cunning negotiator than Mark Anthony: The former got to know about how he should approach noblemen in Rome (gifting) and then he made the romans say the amount of the "gift" instead of being him the one who gave the initial bid. Meanwhile, Mark Anthony plays visibly smug and overconfident but still he asks Posca to start the bid instead of doing it himself, the very bid Herod ended up winning. It shows that, different from Herod, Mark Anthony did not prepare for the negotiation. Even more, he openly reveals how he previously discussed with Posca about asking Herod for a bigger "gift" and also did not reward Posca despite being the latter the one who was more prepared for the bidding. Very good acting, indeed. It shows how the roman leadership degraded with Mark Anthony after Caesar's death.

[@HarmonyEdge]

It's actually a little odd Herod himself did the negotiating, Cleopatra let her slave negotiate in her behalf, like what Posca does for Antony, and in another scene Atia's slave negotiated the price of the necklace with the merchant...

[@dorianphilotheates3769]

And to think that this guy was a blood relation of St. Paul...

[@grantwithers]

That's barron harkonen as the town crier!

[@dxwallace55]

"Now that is what I call a good morning's work...." 2:07

[@superbadmofo1]

The dude did NOT hesitate ....

[@woodwyrm]

Why is Posca, a former slave wearing a toga dyed purple? Forgive my lack of knowledge, but I thought the colour purple, specifically, was reserved for a very few men in the Roman Empire and not just any freed slave; Certainly, Octavian hasn't assumed complete and utter Imperium yet(and in so doing reserving the colour purple specifically for the Imperial court) but still, it does beg the question.

[@all-lowcostthenile6799]

Thats the privilege of being an aide to a Roman Consul, maybe HBO was trying to highlight that

[@woodwyrm]

@@all-lowcostthenile6799 still, it's a little bit early for that Imperial tradition to have taken root in Rome, there's still the semblance of the Tetrarchy.

[@joenorman2206]

Great Video! Love it!

[@AJudgeFredd]

This is where Antony really fucked up...

[@ivandachev4870]

Don’t worry later this day he was separated with his fortune via ingame purchase in Battlefront 2

[@Observer29830]

0:00 - 0:22 - Today's report brought to you by Expositus Maximus, of the Roman News Network. Roman News Network - True News for True Romans.

[@tonyh1718]

Id watch Coming up, the stoning of caius verillus, for the crime of defiling the vestal virgin!

[@lsporter88]

And that's how they did business. Great clip.

[@collinpace6522]

Rome should’ve chosen someone else. Because Herod NEVER kept them under control. Worst king of Judea.

[@alexanderchristopher6237]

Not like the Herod dynasty hadn’t caused for no other possible contenders as king of the Jews. The only other candidate is the Hasmoneans, the dynasty of priest-kings who once were allied to Rome against Anthiochus IV Epiphanes, but since then has weakened, ended up replaced by the Herods, and even some members of the family caught working with the Parthians to invade Judea and Syria. Herod eventually ended that dynasty. And really, even Rome knew that. When Herod the Great passed away and one of his sons Archelaus got deposed as ethnarch, he wasn’t restored to the throne but rather a Roman prefect was sent to govern the territory. A united Herodian Judea was only achieved again by Herod Agrippa I, who was a close friend of emperor Claudius. But when he died, it’s back to the rule of procurators up until the Great Jewish Revolt.

[@chrismedina54]

History is really made by the second and third men in charge.

[@obiwanfx]

I keep wondering what would by the definition of an "appropriate minimum" by Anthony's standards :)

[@hippiehillape]

an appropriate minimum... always kills me

[@somerledislay9987]

Judea was a vassal state and Herod was appointed by Rome there is no need to change history for dramatic effect the truth is dramatic enough

[@Serulik]

20,000 pounds of gold 9 tons, or 180 talents about 590 million dollars in today's terms. one good morning indeed