PIN UP vs. PIN DOWN | Surface Change | Good or Garbage? | Motiv Evoke | Deep Bowling Ball Review

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[@johnclaude9468]

Exactly the type of ball review I think we need more of! Very informative on what you see, how the ball rolls, the differences in surface changes. A ton of good info that hopefully folks pick up a thing of two. Also gives a very good understanding of the balls itself. Love it!

[@Ctdbowling]

Thanks for watching

[@Your_Opponent1216]

This is one of the best review videos I've ever seen - your tools for showing everything in such detail are amazing! I just threw the Evoke on Sunday at a test drive and I was sold - picking one up this week, and this just confirmed it even more. That edge of forgiveness but still striking at 6:50 or so was exactly what I was seeing myself. It was like it still had enough on it to push through enough to barely push them over - even if it wasn't a big messenger strike - who cares, if they all fall down!

[@laurencebooth9280]

Ron, love the new formats for the videos, and great to see the positive fun Ron back on the screen sharing his knoweledge.

[@Ctdbowling]

Thanks for the feedback and watching

[@danielbrown1323]

The best and most articulate review I have seen. Just found your channel. You have a GREAT format and "scientific" approach to your detailed review without getting too "nerdy". I think Motiv and other manufacturers should contract you to review their products much more in-depth than they do on their own web sites. Thank you very much for this caliber of work.

[@granteadie7547]

Love this format of reviews. Makes it easier to make an informed decision on a ball. Keep up the great work.

[@Ctdbowling]

Glad you like them!

[@jamesenglish9029]

Just preordered mine today (as they are not yet available for sale) before watching this video. Im fairly new to this but really love the science behind the sport. Im one of those people who believes better equipment makes a better player. Your videos really help me understand the nuances better and help me improve my game one session at a time.

[@Ctdbowling]

Thanks for watching

[@petermilder1912]

Ron, this is a fantastic video! It's awesome to see you compare the same ball with different pin position and different surfaces. I have one of these on order however I'm having a difficult time deciding how I want to have it drilled. This video has ruled out the pin down drilling for me because I have other balls in my arsenal for angular motion. Love this format and comparison. It gives so much valuable information even to those who are not interested in the Evoke.

[@Ctdbowling]

Thanks for watching

[@ivar7542]

This video is very helpful for me. Especially the behavior of the strong continuous ball with different surfaces, when you miss in or out. It confirms my own experience, but I don't always throw consistently. So now I have a better understanding.

[@Ctdbowling]

Glad you liked it

[@dungeonsanddrinking1265]

Fantastic and comprehensive review! Thank you

[@Ctdbowling]

Thanks for watching

[@rollingreene1220]

This is another information packed presentation - Great clarity on pin up vs pin down and obvious surface changes

[@Ctdbowling]

Thanks for watching

[@matthewsanders9590]

No idea how I’ve missed your reviews for so long. This was really good. I’ve got one coming in and have been back and forth on whether to drill it pin up or down. My Primal Shock is pretty angular, so I’m thinking pin up on this one now. Only thing I’d like to see is that reaction at different speeds. I’m closer to 15.5 to 16, so I think I can miss a bit more left on pin up. Kind of curious on how the energy retention and hit changes though.

[@brycemarqi8448]

Please do more Motiv reviews!! And more like this as I new bowler this information was much needed ! Love the work #leftywrld

[@user-gt1wr1vh3i]

Good video Ron. I like the CTD pads. They seem to work well for me. As far as pin up vs pin down, I lean more towards pin up layouts, but I had a strong asymm solid pin down in the past, winning a local county tournament with just that one. I have since then retired that ball. Looking for something like a BW 3.0 Solid.

[@Ctdbowling]

BW 3.0 is good

[@andrewviperpingel9565]

I love my new evoke. It's very consistent and controlled. I've had really good games with it. Placed 5th in the last clash doubles tournament with it. My proshop is the best! Scott Brunner's Pro Shop.

[@jeffreyyates4906]

I currently have been throwing my Iq tour more recently. I have 5 balls on hand. Storm nova, ebonite the one, storm iq tour are my most used and preference. Your lines and marking are similar to mine. Except I throw with my right hand. I have much interest in this evoke. After watching the videos i think I'd want mine pin down. Great video and very good explanations and information on the ball. Thank you very much.

[@Ctdbowling]

Glad you like it thank you for watching

[@MrHerbster28]

Nice review, definitely got my eye on this ball! Can I ask what is that sort ball cup/cleaner you're using using? Right of the ball at 3:14. Can't see it on your website

[@rb8999]

Big fan of the test at the end with the surface change on each. It seems like the ball's natural tendency to be continuous is what leads to the polished pin down becoming more forward, it's just not a quick/angular response cover

[@Ctdbowling]

Agreed it's how the coverstock reacts to the friction. After seeing that I wanted to make sure it wasn't the layout so I did it on the other ball and got the same reaction. So it definitely is the coverstock

[@dwightstanton2594]

Thank u very much. Was a bowler back in the late 80s early 90s as a kid. I Just bought a ball Colombia 300 explosion . Had it drilled pin up ,was curious about finish . I now know some more about finishes and how they react . Numbers and lines dont lie. Keep it up . How about more videos with traditional style bowler grips. I'm not a fingertip bowler. Love the ball tracker on lane showing oil patterns. Shoulder injury As a kid hindered motion . Developed a right spin out of standard grip being right handed. go figure. So ball tracker and all information is so helpful for me

[@Ctdbowling]

Thanks for watching

[@ski2230]

Very knowledgeable key points to gain interest for the sport of bowling. It helps to better understand your PAP which is critical and crucial to your personal ball layout, ball motion, and lane play execution, strategies.

[@infinite0muzik]

Love the review, being a no thumb bowler I'm actually looking at this one with a longer pin since I'm rev dominate

[@marclee9552]

I like the review on this ball, I got one because of the control ability that I could get from it. Had it drilled pin up and I find that it doesn’t respond very well to covering boards so during a practice session I had to move a little left of the middle dot and get straight with the ball off the 10 board and for a game it held up until the second game. I had to put it up and get something that gives me more angles to the pocket. But I’m still working with it. I like the review on it.👍🏿

[@richardsantine7318]

Great video, I like to know the base formula of having 2000 grit polish? 2000 grit is my favorite in polish.

[@maximluva]

Great video. Dumb question, but I put a lot of forward roll on the ball w/my release, is there a way to drill to make the ball more effective?

[@michaelprince1914]

I almost purchased the evoke at the demo in deer park lanes in Long Island,NY. I ended up purchasing the raptor fury.

[@mrhardbiz62]

Thanks!

[@djscratch626]

Great review, I'm going to pick up the ball today & going to get it pin down. I'm a right-handed bowler avg 225. Rev rate is 550 to 565. I like Motiv balls, I'm actually filling out the application to get on motiv staff.

[@brucegiles1202]

Great video, it shows a few things for me. One is that people generally believe pin down means weaker. And to "a certain degree" that may be true, but I have found just what you have showed is that pin down ball seem to have more back end then pin up, but pin up is still stronger. Also I'm, curios as to the pad you were using to wipe your ball. is that a new product?

[@mikebrigantic524]

Very informative video! For a speed dominant down and in bowler, it wasn't super clear on which option was best. Would it be the pin up, 1000 grit? Or pin up no change at all?

[@panther2307]

Great video, very thorough. Would it be too time consuming to do this style video on other new releases?

[@Ctdbowling]

The plan is to do more stuff like this

[@seand.3085]

This just gave me so much information to apply to my storm fate. Gonna slap 2k on my baby to see if it finally gives me the feel and shape I want because 3k+ just results in that forward roll and striking less on our house pattern. My miss room window is so unbelievably narrow where on my zen it felt like I had a massive 3 foot miss window. Lol

[@garyconstantino6408]

I'm kind of new to 10 pin, big ball bowling. Grew up bowling candlepin. The past few months I've been out quite a bit and now I have the bug and got addicted. I'm averaging around 150-160 and my high has been 228. So my issue is I only bowl straight and haven't learned to curve the ball. If I want to give the curve bowling a try what balls would you recommend to purchase ? I think I would like the thumb in bowling much better than the just fingers and two hand. What are your suggestions ? Thanks in advance

[@BassRacerx]

I like the colors of this ball. super fun!

[@Ctdbowling]

Agreed

[@panther2307]

Awesome thank you

[@Ctdbowling]

Thanks for watching

[@CrazyBaker1969]

Feel like I want to go to the beach now.. I wish companies would stop with the colors and make the balls look professional again. I like the ball action and this was a great review. Thank you

[@adammiller8538]

ive bought your products for years, just found the youtube. im in for it. im in KY which i think you guys are too, and looking for a new ball; but my league house is foul with thier service. let me know if i can come somewhere and talk about my throw and get a ball. (been bowling for 19 years... the service in louisville seems to cut me out cuz im not in the club.)

[@Ctdbowling]

Our Education Center where the video is filmed is in Hopkinsville KY

[@michaelprince1914]

Great ball! Even with neutral pin settings.

[@zacharybreig3622]

I have been looking for a left handed 1 hand player sovi can see where i am going wrong i currently have a black widow 2.0 reactive. It may help me get better

[@Baltisar1]

Excellent video. I have a 20 degree axis tilt and struggle on medium oil conditions. Can you give some insight to how to pick a ball that will help in that area. Oh, before I forget, I am 72 years old and my launch speed is 17.5 with rev rate of 270. Any thoughts.

[@Ctdbowling]

So I would suggest using more surface to help use up the tilt. If you are going to do layouts. Use 3 or 4 inch Pin to PAP on lower flaring balls.

[@keithballtrip5551]

Great looking Ball... I don't know, after watching the video, why someone would polish or sand it down. Pin down looks like a better, more forgiving ball if I understand it.

[@kevinbadburn03]

Love this type of review. Just wish Motiv was a little more pocket friendly.

[@innocentrage1]

Wonder if this ball glows during black light midnight bowling

[@scottweiderman9286]

at 250+ cost now, I'm hesitant with super aggressive coverstocks from motiv. I have bought a few from them that just die, and die quick. forge flare, OG forza, jackal rising, all dead in 5 months. cant charge almost 300 bucks for a half year of performance. but man do they roll nice.

[@donsmith7771]

Those are all pretty old balls

[@Cam4lifey]

Great in depth review, even thought im right handed i feel like i can envision exactly what reaction i would get from this video... Keep em detailed and informative....Motiv Only Bowler here!

[@Ctdbowling]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@thebigeasy8609]

I for one Ron am diggin' the new and improved changes. Being a lefty with very similar revs and speed to yours it makes decisions soooooooooo much easier. My house has a nice shot but I tend to lean towards pin down layouts that just seem to be just more predictable for me. Thank you sir for showing us the sanded and polished versions for even more info.

[@Ctdbowling]

Thanks for watching

[@robertgivens3174]

Greatly appreciate your the way you explained Pin up & pin down I am a recreational bowler and my next ball is a Hustler RIP medium Oil lanes what’s your thoughts.

[@Ctdbowling]

Make sure you have some TruCuT sanding pads so you can match the surface to the lane condition.

[@isomhawes311]

If the goal of pin up balls (low VAL angle) is to get angular downlane reaction, should the recommendation be 2 fold? Lower VAL angle and increase pin to pap distance? If the pin up ball had a longer pin to pap than the pin down, would we see the same type of skid as the pin down but a really sharp, crisp backend?

[@Ctdbowling]

That is true, you absolutely could do that. For this test we wanted to limit the variables so we could focus on VAL angle vs performance.

[@EyeTeeGuy3]

I am very interested in this ball. I really wanna drop it between my Jackal Ambush and my Crimson Jackal. Please provide your thoughts on that.

[@Ctdbowling]

I think it would fit right in between those two balls.

[@cartermeddaugh7965]

I can't seem to figure out how to use it. I start to the left hand throw at the second arrow on the right and it always ends up hooking way too much to the far left

[@Ctdbowling]

Watch the entire video. We show how to reduce the hook if needed.

[@ChasinAces22]

Just ordered an evoke. I'm a newer bowler. I don't know my "specs". more speed dominant than rev. any recommendations on up vs down?

[@Ctdbowling]

Pin down

[@Jdbreal299]

So I’m a no thumb bowler I get a bit of a flair ring or my finger holes but only on my sky raptor.. why. Pin up

[@kekaiseabury9370]

Thanks from hawaii

[@travisjones772]

Would you recommend this ball over any other Motiv balls as a starting house ball?

[@Ctdbowling]

I would be a venom (shock) as a starting ball.

[@Ghettonasty1914]

Ron....I notice U come out on the side of the ball, using more muscle I believe and ball going side ways, correct? My question is for a continuous ball to recover woukdnt the ball have to come off your hand more up the back of the ball?

[@Ctdbowling]

That is correct

[@EyeTeeGuy3]

Also, when you record longer videos, it would be nice to have the video broken down into sections based on the topic you discussed.

[@jvang98]

Hey Ron! Great video! Been keeping an eye out for this Evoke since it was announced. I am a two handed bowler and would like your opinion on how this ball would do if I was to go with this as my top of the bag ball? I've also been learning more about layouts and the dual angle system. What layout would you suggest on this beauty of a ball in comparison to something like a Crimson Jackal as they both seem to serve a different purpose in an arsenal? Love watching all these technical videos as it helps me further my knowledge in the sport! Thanks!

[@Ctdbowling]

I would recommend looking into the Pin Above the Line (PAL) layout system. It's great for 2 handed players in terms of getting your reaction tuned in.

[@daveconatty9940]

Does a pin down ball require more speed? How, as a recreation bowler, with some skill, know what questions to ask a pro shop on how to pick a ball. For instance, I was perfect through 6 frames, just last night, and then all of a sudden my ball was pushing too far down lane, not reading early enough and was light for the rest of the game. Ended with a 221 and it should've been a lot better. I never am able to understand what adjustments need to be made. I'm a right handed bowler, and if I play more right, out of the oil, it will inevitably go Brooklyn. I'd say my speed is right a right around 17mph but I have no clue what my rev rate would be. I'd like to think I have some skill. Even in this comment, I'm not sure what to ask...

[@Ctdbowling]

I would focus more on the physical aspects of the game. The balls play a role, but a slight hand position change or ball speed change can fix the ball going too long and be way more effective than the ball layout or even changing bowling balls. Look for a good coach in your area.

[@paulf4331]

my question is does amount of flare even matter, as long as you have separation of flare rings?

[@Ctdbowling]

It can impact continuation

[@hognose62]

Thoughts on surface combo - 2000, 3000, then end with 4000 pin up ball. low rev player

[@Ctdbowling]

I would go the other way with the surface

[@robertcollins9466]

Great informative review...thank you. Are you a fan of Motiv?

[@Ctdbowling]

We like all of the bowling ball manufacturers

[@libra9194]

Ron is this ball asymmetrical or symmetrical?

[@Ctdbowling]

Asymmetrical

[@levihayes5365]

Sounds crazy but I was gonna buy the ball just for the colors don’t really know of any other balls that look like this

[@Ctdbowling]

That's not crazy I am sure Motiv appreciates seeing that

[@levihayes5365]

@@Ctdbowling I have the gem and that’s like the only thing close. Saw this ball going down the rain kinda wish they would sell it out to storm so they could put a bubble gum scent on it😂

[@JamesCFelty3]

It is pretty good. Can’t force it either or it won’t recover.

[@demdudes954]

That specto is serious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@marlowhuff5975]

Thank you very much this made a purchase decision easier. Very informative

[@Ctdbowling]

Glad it was helpful!

[@ericrobinson8864]

I grew up rolling thee ball down the lane without any technology. Learned by looking, seeing and making adjustments. Not by different drilling techniques and or science of it all. It doesn't seam as fun when it's getting to technical. Just my 2 cents

[@louiscornale5667]

Bowl on one bowl on 52 Bar open?😮

[@davetoews3378]

Hey Ron I am interested in if you guys would do a comparison of the Crimson Jackal to the Evoke. Cause on the Motiv website, they compare their equipment. With the length, hook, and backend numbers compare. And they are similar. Angular, compared to continuous. And solid to pearl. What do you think?

[@Ctdbowling]

The Crimson is stronger downlane than the Evoke especially at the same surface

[@davetoews3378]

​@Ctdbowling hey Ron, I'm right handed. With the Tom Dorothy style, with no thumb drilled. My equipment are all pin up. And my PAP is 5". Also have a number of Motiv pearl, angular bowling balls. I'm thinking with the Overload core making the ball strong. What can you help me understand with layouts? For example of a 65x5x65

[@kellymcmanaway4069]

I have the Forge Flare pin down, I'm a lefty. I was thinking about replacing it with the Evoke. Should I get one pin up?

[@Ctdbowling]

I would think that's a good idea as I have a Forge Flare as well.

[@williamfreitas7016]

CTD has a video with SPECTO data showing the difference between pin up and pin down being negligible. Is the difference seen here solely related to this ball then?

[@SirGenesis206]

I remember that video. I do think it’s based on this ball in particular. 25% seems like more than usual. But also most bowlers think there’s enough of a difference to carry the same ball with pin up and down in the same bag

[@Ctdbowling]

Both balls still strike in this video. I do think the change in differential has an impact on the performance for this ball, and that is related to the core shape.

[@erniesautomotiveperformanc9252]

Liked the difference. They keep making equipment to act more like urethane it seems

[@fliboi1379]

Ron, Hendo here...quick question. Do you think lowering the grit would aid to better carry on the pin down?

[@fliboi1379]

Ha, I asked my question @ 17 some minutes...and you are already changing it perfect..lol good stuff!!!!

[@Ctdbowling]

All good

[@tigertolliver5199]

I'll throw up 12 lb. Is the core going to be the same? Some of the other motor bowling balls cores are same as you go down to 12. What do you think? Please respond. Will this be a good ball coming out of there bag? First game is a symmetrical of 70 years old. I love to stay left or this be a good ball if I stay left instead of down and then. Thank you!

[@Ctdbowling]

The core will have different numbers but the coverstock is more important as is the surface.

[@tigertolliver5199]

@@Ctdbowling thanks

[@biggiesmalljaws]

Same core shape from 12-16 lbs if that’s what you are asking. As CTD stated the core numbers change drastically however.

[@duanegibbs2394]

Do you think this would be a good ball to use on a sports shot?

[@Ctdbowling]

Yes with the right surface on it

[@ScottyThompson-lt7wl]

Cool video talk tech bowling ball Ron hickland

[@protical261]

Is this guy a bot? I see him everywhere.

[@ScottyThompson-lt7wl]

@@protical261 um

[@laurelsherman811]

Dumb ? Does the ball glow in black light?

[@Ctdbowling]

It does

[@donnyswanson6186]

All these numbers RG 4 to what the hell does any of that mean!!!!!!!! I;m a league bowler 210 average always looking for a better score!!!!! I'm far from a pro but NONE OF THESE MEANS ANYTHING TO ME WHAT HE IS SAYING!!!! RG .3 i have NO CLUE what you're talking about. Bringing it down to lemans terms would be greatly appreciated

[@kylerossiter3980]

Radius of gyration

[@Samuel-xs2yv]

Why don't you just do a little research? Every ball provides the RG and diff specs, this is nothing new.

[@robvoyles]

ball looks weak and lazy