5 Of The Same Symmetrical Bowling Ball | 5 Different Layouts | 5 Different Reactions?

This video talks about layouts on symmetrical bowling balls. We help you understand the differences they produce on a Typical House Pattern, and we use data to show the performance differences.
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[@glennhayakawa2692]

Great info. I like the end comments. My daughter is a true example of what can happen at Jr. Gold. No one knew of her but got noticed just by being there (she was not a superstar but her lane presence got her noticed). She got offered 5 scholarships and eventually chose a college to further her education. The comments are so true and hit home for us.

[@manaflala]

Cheehooo right on Hawaiian 🤙🏾

[@AmazingWord23]

Much appreciate the effort made to make this video. Helps put pin layout in the proper perspective.

[@Ctdbowling]

Glad it helped!

[@nestes86]

Good information and data. I think for most the midlane difference is a visual feeling and some are just more comfortable with a certain appearance. For me, I've been bowling horrible of recent and layouts don't much matter. I've bowled just sport shots and it's more about having the right ball more than anything feels like.

[@anthonydeloach805]

great information, the biggest thing I take away is that you must be consistent in your shot making to really realize significant differences layouts to fine tune things.

[@baze3SC]

Yes. And if you're that consistent you can likely just move your feet a couple of boards or slightly adjust your speed. You need to be a very good bowler first before you're able to appreciate the difference. There's no need to overthink this, it will influence maybe 10% of the ball's movement.

[@jimnewton5904]

that was very informative and helpful it appeared a pin down and a short pin while not the same are similar in early hook and roll

[@AimSmall101]

I drill my own stuff and I definitely agree with what you're saying about not much difference in ball layout, especially if you struggle with repeat shots. What I've really learned is that ball design/intent is the biggest factor (and sanding pads). 🙂👍

[@mangojack1487]

Great fill in info for people trying to decide what layouts are available for their upcoming new ball. Great lesson indeed.

[@davewilliams-v6g]

What makes the ball angular or continuous? Layout ,surface, core? Loving these new instructional and information videos please keep going

[@Ctdbowling]

We use the manufacturer information to determine what category the ball falls into

[@johnrocksvold9105]

Great video. Would also be nice to see, with all these layouts, the difference of where he has to stand and target for each layout to strike.

[@1robotcone3]

If it helps, the narrator said the bowler stood in the same spot and tried to hit the same target for all of the shots in the video. Obviously, with human error he did not hit the same target BUT he was pretty close for most of the shots.

[@ToddKTrout]

Might have been nice to ask the bowler if he felt any of the layouts felt better to him for the lane conditions. Likely would have said that any could have worked. Good video. Love the tech.

[@andrewinvests839]

Great video, sir! Sometimes that tiny difference can help one carry, but there's so many other factors. Surface is key! #trucut

[@ft1ft1ft1]

Oil pattern is helping those balls to do similar paths, if you try the same test on a flat sport pattern the difference should be bigger

[@Deadstorage]

Can we do this same video with all these same drill patterns but throw a long medium oil pattern and a short dry oil pattern. And another video with these same balls starting with high polish and working down 5 grades of ball surfacing. I appreciate your passion and thank you so very much for sharing knowledge with us.

[@leesparrow8637]

So after all this great info, I still don't know what layout to get on my new ball haha

[@wintonmoy5560]

Just got this for my recommendation and now I know why I only clip the finger holes on my pin under ball.

[@remington1439]

Great video gives me a lot to think of and what crazy revs he has..I was wondering what if he moved 1 board to the right to strike but I really enjoy your videos and your products are great. Wow the 90x ball hook for being a straight ball by no#

[@rogerdykes8407]

I really love the video and every time I see one of your videos it really enhance my understanding a bowling ball in the commitment that I wanna have to understanding layout ball surface and also as a youth coach I really need the information you so that I can really help you today try to understand about purchasing bowling ballunderstanding the layout and also make them understand the reason why and how they are purchasing thank you so much and keep please keep educating us on the games sign awesome jaguar fan

[@alexbetancourt6378]

Such great info, and clear and consice. Now I gotta learn symmetric to asymmetric.

[@williekelty5601]

LOVE WHAT YOU DO SIR!!! I need that Carolina Blue shirt you flexing in...;)

[@melodicchronic5181]

Very interesting. I'm new to bowling and just bought my first ball and had it drilled. It's a symmetrical ball and I noticed that they did not drill it pin up or pin down, but drilled my ring finger directly into the pin. So now I'm very curious, why did they do that and what does that do??

[@1rushrush]

Great informative video. Shout out to the camera guy.

[@JeffWilliams-e1k]

Best video I’ve seen

[@whopharrell]

Very informative 👏 👌

[@mcaeal]

Hello and thanks. I noticed most of the drill angles were 45. I have read that the drill angle on a sym ball is not important. Just wanted to get you thoughts, thanks

[@Ctdbowling]

That is correct it does not matter on sym balls

[@davidmckinney7434]

Great video Ron & Dustin

[@kooltime8597]

Types of inserts used will also effect the balls speed and rotation based on the bowler style. Some inserts are just round hole types others have flat edges on the finger side this will effect rotation and rpm beyond just the layout used.

[@mikewrobel2881]

Would the differences be magnified by someone with significantly lower ball speed?

[@butchcoolidge3261]

Nice video and information as usual. I have been throwing mainly pin up Radical balls for several years now. I have thrown some pin down with weight holes, as well as a couple short pin layouts and a Rico drilling once. From what I’ve just witnessed, I’m sure that given the chance to throw a game or so with each of those balls, I could figure each one out. I might even be able to use them for specific applications without having to change my style of throwing? I’ve seen pros during match play, with several different layout variations on the same ball at times. I’m sure having a knowledgeable ball rep to advise when and what to change to would be a benefit also. I’m mostly bowling league, but do tend to prefer symmetric balls with pin up layouts. Just picked up a Pandemonium Pearl a week ago, and am still getting acquainted with it.

[@iceman5117]

Why would you start bowling with weight holes now when they were banned?

[@butchcoolidge3261]

@@iceman5117 Have thrown some, in the past. Nobody would throw any now. They have been illegal for a while.

[@Kiki-alienmom]

This made me realize that as my teen daughter's release and timing have improved/refined, so her layout might not be right for her now. She's been leaving splits and opens like crazy and she's tried everything. It's been a brutal season... Her average dropped almost 20 pins over the past 4 months, despite improving her pocket percentage. So into the shop we go to have that reassessed. Thank you for this! Great content as always! I just converted 2 families to CTD as we return to league this week after HS state finals. 🫶🎳

[@Ctdbowling]

Thanks for watching and the feedback. We are here to help

[@Kiki-alienmom]

@@Ctdbowling We might want to plan a visit to see you guys for some coaching and to brag about how much we love CTD! We have most of the surface care products, and I never miss a video or social media post! 🫶

[@rocerva]

which one is better pin down or pin up??? which do you recommend most???

[@shawnw4426]

How much would hand position changes be magnified by the different layouts? Would the different layouts still be so close or does a certain layout react more to certain position changes?

[@timothyschaffer2287]

Would be curious to see if still that similar on sport pattern

[@rvtcg24]

If you’d sell any of the used balls I’d love to get back into bowling with some of the new tech

[@robertgarcia3654]

Nice info about pin placement. I would like to know more about pin distance and top weight and pin placement together.

[@marioca74]

I really appreciate your videos but honestly all it did was confuse me a little more about layouts to me the data just tells me that it almost doesn't matter maybe someone who's a pro bowler would see the differences

[@Ctdbowling]

That's exactly what it says. It's not confusing it's just not what you have been led to believe in the past.

[@michaeljohnston2880]

This are always awesome but how about some good left’s and both two handed lay outs. Please!

[@bigray2859]

Thanks!

[@jeremypeterson3166]

What do you recommend to push the track as far from the fingers as possible? I'm a 2 hander with a real hard time keeping the track off the middle finger

[@stormynighttv7629]

Mo from Radical did a video on this some time back. He uses pitches to change your track and get it off of your fingers

[@tigertolliver5199]

Hello MR.HICKMAN ,I am 68, my pro shop guy says he doesn't give my lay out information to me , should go to another driller ?

[@1adammckenzie]

yes

[@Mote78]

You can take your ball to any driller and they can read (measurement) your layout for you. Mine wrote it down on a diagram and he let me photograph it. Shouldn’t be a secret. Even pro bowlers share their drill layouts.

[@aarongreer1474]

Yes you should

[@Really-cq2uw]

You can bring your old ball (layout) to a new person, and they can copy it, on a new ball.

[@markbrown2119]

Is it hard to find a pro shop that will favorably drill for you?

[@tigertolliver5199]

That great information keep up your good work soon as get up some cash I am going 2 order some products frome products,be safe.

[@JamesCFelty3]

The big puff pad is amazing! I love mine!

[@StevenA-fp3zj]

Ron... Is the bowtie point relative to the pin position? Meaning as the pin moves does the bowtie point move? Is the bowtie point always the same distance away from the pin? Is the bowtie point also an indicator of what type of ball motion the ball has?

[@baliktad8]

The bow tie is in relation to the pin and your axis point. As you move the pin around, the bow tie will also move.

[@anthonygomes3751]

Question: The Pin to PAP (Track Flare). I believe the least is 3&3/8 & highest is 6.5 and more it is the weaker the lower...the strongest a ball would be, isnt it? For example a 3.5 would be strong and a 6 will make the ball weak. I want to drill a ball 75-6-20. I want the ball to be weak for dry lanes. Will this be fine?

[@rock98931]

I believe it's opposite. High flare = stronger & earlier lane reads; Less flare = late lane reads & potentially more back-end hook. This is because high flare means more surface area of the ball touches the oil & lane, therefore the oil is more dispersed giving more traction to hook early.

[@baliktad8]

3 and 3/8” pin puts the weight block at the most unstable or strongest position. Moving the pin either closer or farther away makes the ball more stable. It’s just their motions are different. A 6” pin will cause the ball to travel farther down the lane, conversely a 1” pin will cause the ball to pickup earlier.

[@remington1439]

I like the 45x5x30 ball drill pattern

[@vance836]

Since CG placement doesnt matter. Could you take a undrilled symmetrical ball and drill the "back side" of the ball still using the same layout and get the same roll and reaction? In other words......put the ball in a manner so the CG is facing you as you typically would when laying out a ball, but take the ball and put the CG so it is facing down and lay it out that way? Would be a comparison I would like to see. Same layout but one ball where you have the CG marking visible and one where the CG is not visible. Throw the balls side by side in a comparison video and see if they react identical.

[@Ctdbowling]

By definition a symmetrical ball is the same on both sides and without a weight hole it would roll the same.

[@keyeisme1694]

Can I get one of those Latitudes? Great information by the way.

[@julianelam599]

That 90 X 1/2 X 60 layout doesn’t flare as much so if I choose that layout on the iq tour edition what would’ve do for me see I’m a straight player bowler averaging 193

[@myronromero7071]

Very interesting. But could you show what are 3 numbers and how they are measured

[@YangCThao]

Felt like I just went to physics class but actually learned something useful

[@taravetesi6006]

Why have you gone to this ball and not the CtD benchmark ball the IQ tour solid?

[@denmanfite3156]

I used to be of the opinion "only cover and surface matters." I have since grown to: the summation of all of these elements is PARAMOUNT in a bowling ball's proper performance. Think of a shopping cart with 1 wheel turned 90 degrees off center. You've only lost "25%" of the wheel surface the shopping cart has available, but MAN you sure notice that wheel not working with the rest of the cart, right?

[@cspence6253]

This dudes rev rate is insane!

[@dragonshadow3707]

Quick question it looks like the finger plugs are sticking way to far out why did they not get cut down surely that will effect the ball going down the line

[@Ctdbowling]

The ball doesn't roll over them so it has zero impact on the performance of the ball. If this ball was used in competition. It would be illegal to have the inserts sticking out like they are.

[@michaelstetzer3144]

So what is the most common layout? What does the bowler think about the different layout or preference.

[@willisyounger5083]

Bruh, where are you located? I'd like to come visit with you, if possible. I'm in Colorado.

[@Ctdbowling]

Hopkinsville KY

[@matthewcline4001]

When you have 5 balls that don't sell, make a video!

[@doppler4950]

this ball sucksss

[@MarcoLiftz]

😂😂😇

[@sebl9710]

Good thing he wasn't throwing storm.

[@alf7286]

I'm wondering why you have the finger inserts sticking out of the balls. The first throw you can actually hear the balls thumping on the way down the lane. Thought they were supposed to be cut flush with the surface of the ball?!

[@blakephillips5354]

Good layouts he just needs to close his angles and play right between 2 and 3rd arrow he has the speed third arrow is too deep for that ball either that or that core isn't all that strong because some of those layouts are strong

[@mattholmes2808]

makes sense when the pba players make a ball change to the lane conditions

[@cthebeastyt5107]

Hey do you have layout advice for a right hand 2 hand bowler

[@Ctdbowling]

Yes, please check the channel for videos on layouts.

[@_.Dave._]

Are the tips supposed to stick out of the ball by 3 inches by design?

[@garrettheyerdahl4123]

The ball does not roll there so it does not matter. They are showing you were it's rolling with oil on them. I'm sure he just drilled the balls quick for demo

[@TheInsaneShecklador]

2 and 3/4s maximum. 3 is a bit excessive.

[@Kmeadows09]

Still have the balls to repeat this on a sport compliant lane pattern? I don't expect a lot of difference. I just assume the lane pattern helps push all the down lane data on top of each other.

[@rishiaman2]

i actually thought someone was touching my headphones in the beginning lol

[@nicholauscurphey3925]

I really wished that you could have done a ball where the mass bias was more towards the thumbhole. For me....all these balls do the same thing thing. I'd rather see a 60 x 4 1/2 x 30.

[@caseycuster87]

First number don't matter in symmetrical bowling balls. It's all about the 2nd and 3rd number

[@tasman6563]

How can I send my drill specs for evaluation and layout recommendations?

[@Ctdbowling]

Consider joining our staff at ctdbowling.com/pages/staff-inquiries

[@tasman6563]

My daughter is a junior staff member. I said, but it is for her.

[@Ctdbowling]

@@tasman6563 then just email [e-mail]

[@StephRenee812]

Do thise balls ever get used again?

[@Ctdbowling]

No we dispose of them

[@rexjohnson1081]

Great video just have him slow the speed down a bit dude had a rocket in the arm and legs

[@AKstryker23]

Funny i have a few balls drilled with short pins and stronger pins and they react nothing like each other my short pin motiv horizon doesnt move anywhere near my strong horizon

[@dip-stopde532]

The comparison lags a bit. You can only compare it correctly if you always hit the same breakpoint and not once 7 bar and the other bar 12

[@JustChuck1t]

This would have been perfect if you had throwbot

[@manaflala]

True, I have heard even though throw bot can be programmed to throw the exact line the only variable that will change and make a difference will be how the lanes breakdown after X amount of shots so you’d have to also control the lane pattern and it’s variables as well and order of balls to be thrown. If they could strip down the lane lay down a new pattern after each shot but that wouldn’t feasible due to man hours and resources spent on a KZbin video 😂 but we can only dream 😅

[@mjheggie2]

So basically ball is more important than layout??

[@_.Dave._]

What I learned here was drill 3 holes in a ball where ever... and your good to go.

[@StephRenee812]

And that a lot of balls go to the landfill. 🫣

[@Really-cq2uw]

I switched to 2 handed and bought some used balls. I get the thumb filled, and use the fingers just how they are. I learn what the ball does, and use that information to determine when I should throw it to match the lane conditions. It’s a fun learning experience.

[@Jpepperguy]

This guy failed on the finger tip in the ball sticking out like 1/2” lol😂

[@EFFTrudeau-001]

Why do you glue tge grips in above the balls surface? Only time i see that is by people who dont care or dont know what they are doing

[@lesliestraw4699]

Why are all inserts proud of the ball ? i thought nothing could be

[@a01036344277]

1

[@jamesmatheson4746]

why so much foreword on the fingers?

[@triwirad8145]

2

[@skategeezer1810]

To me it is more about surface.

[@baliktad8]

The correct surface gets you to the pocket, layouts help you carry.

[@DarthXusia1]

Your tester would average about 150-160 in my house. He never lined up his feet and his targeting was 4 boards wide at the arrows. Too used to bowling on the gravy train I guess...

[@1robotcone3]

My money is on the pressure of trying to hit your target while being filmed for a video :-) He stood in the same spot with his feet but had poor execution on hitting his target......kinda like your average league bowler.

[@TheInsaneShecklador]

His accuracy didn't look great here but Ron said he was a Team USA member. You don't make Team USA without being good. Probably just not warmed up, used to being rushed, or filmed.

[@dano7207]

No disrespect but if the finger grips were fully cut to size some of those would roll different with less flare.

[@argenisarteaga5285]

Not one shot was deleted.

[@dangriffiths1392]

Maybe get a more consistent bowler for your tests?

[@dangriffiths1392]

And one who typically rolls the ball our more... If ya keep basically rolling it down the middle through the oil, you're really not giving the ball the chance to show you the difference in the drilling layouts.

[@dangriffiths1392]

And lower ball speed. All in all, you went a lot of effort and expense for this test, but gave it very little chance of providing any useful data, which is why your conclusion was that pin placement doesn't make much difference when we all know that it does (at least to a much greater extent than you demonstrated).

[@dangriffiths1392]

And a static camera would have been good. All in all man, in the nicest possible way, this video is garbage.

[@canuck_gamer3359]

Speaking of layouts Ron, I wonder if you can help me identify a layout I noticed in an old PBA broadcast here on KZbin. Walter Ray Williams is throwing one of the Speed Zone series and the Brunswick 'B' is upside down in relation to the grip holes. But I can't see the pin or the c.g. and so I wanted to get your opinion if possible. Here's a link to the video and check out 42:09, his thumb hole is actually through the Brunswick B. He's playing much farther inside than he usually did and I think that might be why he opted for some kind of pin down layout to create more roll. What do you think??? kzbin.info/www/bejne/jpPdiICrabGdn5I

[@KennyGrinols]

I know this is 4 months old, but I'm confused as to how you state you can't see the pin? I used the time stamp you gave, and the pin is directly next to his ring finger, and it's clear as day.

[@TheInsaneShecklador]

@@KennyGrinols Ya. The pin is super easy to see. I didn't see the CG but I also didn't feel like looking through several shots and camera angles. I'm sure with a bit more effort I could see it.

[@JSBowling2011]

Your bowler is throwing the ball too fast he doesn’t have very much roll at the end of the pattern only 2 feet that’s not very good

[@dukeblue9999]

Lol. I’m confused

[@TheDeder57]

To bad your bowler couldn't slow it down & carry 😢

[@markmatroni631]

Wish I could throw shots on that much oil!!!!!

[@fliboimoney]

They are all the same. Should have changed the drill ANGLES. MAYBE next time or Add too....add A 70 DRILL ANGLE and a 20 drill and change the VAL. They are all 45 except the pin on Pap

[@JesusRocks26]

Could get a better bowler to demo them next time..

[@Ctdbowling]

Lol he's a former Team USA bowler. Thanks for watching

[@Jpepperguy]

Dude needs to slow down

[@timbrock2785]

Lol, it’s a symmetrical ball.... doesn’t matter where the pin is....

[@tonygodinho6815]

The pin location does matter. It's the CG that doesn't.

[@markjames4583]

The drill angle is NOT what's important here. It's the change of the middle number and your Val angle change that makes all the difference! A one inch change in the midlane becomes amplified once the ball reaches the pocket. Your spectro machine might show very close similarities, however the layout changes vastly alter the angle of entry into the pocket.....thus affecting strike ability and carry! The reason for different layouts is to affect where on the lane the ball hooks, and eventually how much power you want delivered to the pocket. Regardless of layout however, surface is king! Surface change ultimately controls 70% of all your ball reaction! That fact will never change.

[@Jpepperguy]

Convinced this guy sucks at bowling lil😂

[@mtdstc]

Get them inserts in there. They're half stickin out