Episode 401: Why Some Ballistically Superior Cartridges Are Outsold by Lesser Competition

[@awwwshucks443]

Also have a 68 western xbolt 2bspeed spr. Happily get half minute groups. Comb and LOP adjustability while still being light. Love it.

[@Yetified_Mayhem]

Should be more commercially available. Same with 280AI. I don't reload, so I run a boring 308 here in Idaho.

[@davidruppel1216]

Happy New Year Ron and Betsy! I hope your year is wonderful. Keep your videos coming. Like I said, you are the Keith, O'Connor, and all those writers from days gone by. You are the current knowledge of today!

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Many thanks David. And thanks for your ongoing support!

[@jimedick9496]

When I decided to look for a light weight rifle for those mountain/expedition hunts, I looked into the 6.8 Western and the 7 PRC. I studied these two carriages inside and out. I ultimately chose the 6.8 Western due to the short action vs the long action. I could get a lighter rifle with short action, plus the Western is very efficient out of a 20” barrel. That’s the only reason why I chose it. I’m glad I did because I fell in love with the cartridge. I like it so much, that I’ve purchased two more. Now I have one in a 20, 24, and now a 26” barrels. The 24” Seekins Havak PH2 is my favorite. Plus, it’s taken my last three bulls. Hopefully it doesn’t fade away, it’s such a great and efficient hunting cartridge. If it does, I’m still set for life. I’ve got lots of ammo, plus I’m set for reloading the Western as well.

[@henrybobswillikers]

Happy New Year Ron, thank you for all your work you do for us.

[@orr89rocz]

I got a model 70 super grade with beautiful wood stock in 6.8 western. Great gun. Wasnt thrilled about the cartridge choice since the super grade isnt exactly a long range rig and i have better long range rounds and rigs, but after loading for it and seeing how accurate it is, im happy with it. Its a better 270 wsm since you can run those bullets plus the big 165-175’s. So it has versatility. I can see it sticking around, but needs more options for loadings

[@MrAntuan25]

Just bought a model 70 stainless in 6.8 Western very accurate,

[@FrankGulla]

Bought a "new" rifle recently, chambered in the venerable .270 win, in a browning X-bolt 24" 1-7.5 twist barrel. I hand load so i want to play with some heavy for caliber bullets ie; 170gr berger or 175gr sierra game changer. I have a Rem model 7 chambered in the 7mm SAUM and i like the rifle and cartridge but those fat rounds don't feed as slick as the 06 based cartridges plus i get 1 more round in the X bolt. Its hard to beat a lot of the old tried and true cartridges, they were and are popular for many reasons, but mostly they just plain work, thanks Ron, take care.

[@DrHenley]

You mentioned 280 Remington...my brother in law has been hunting with a 280 for many years. This year, for the first time, he cannot find any 280 ammo locally anywhere. He had to order it online and even then not many places had it. I helped him look for ammo and I actually found more 280 AI ammo than straight 280.

[@SammyMoore-tg5gs]

.280 ai has a significantly larger market share especially out west when compared to the .280 remington

[@myronman3]

he should be a handloader. problem solved, problem staying solved.

[@RimfireRanger]

One example where heat might come into play is prairie dog hunting. I go out to South Dakota with family every year and we get into some very large dog towns where we are taking hundreds of shots over several hours. We mostly shoot all rimfire calibers (22LR, 17HM2, 22WMR, 17 HMR, and 17WSM),just for the fact that they are much cheaper to shoot and it’s always fun when you can hit a dog out to 300 yards with a 22 every once in awhile. We end up shooting so much that we can’t touch our barrels because they are so hot. As for the heat changing our point of impact, im sure it’s happening but it’s not enough for us to notice. However we did notice a significant impact shift while shooting from a box of ammo that was left on the dash of the truck while it was over 100° outside versus the ammo that was in metal ammo cans in the shade. We found that very interesting so we conducted our own highly NON scientific experiment with different calibers we had with us and found that the 17 calibers had more point of impact shift than the 22 calibers did when ammo was left out in the hot sun. I’m sure this is a well known fact already but we thought it was interesting as we stumbled across it. Thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge with us through your videos and pod casts, I always look forward to the next one!

[@jeanpaulsigaud648]

Happy New Year Ron and hello from France, thank you for all your videos and I really appreciated the ones on the 270 W and for Canada they are in the process of removing some of their weapons so the bears can rest easy, best regards JP

[@brucehudson3241]

Marketing, pure and simple. I remember the 260 Remington in the 1990s, shot it, it was nice. 20 years later, 6.5 Creedmoor with less case capacity sells great. Difference: the cartridge was built around the chambering and the fast twist.

[@DrHenley]

Well, the case capacity is misleading. If you fire long high BC Bullets in the 260 in a rifle with a 308 length magazine, you have to seat them so deep that the 260's case capacity is reduced. The Creed has a shorter case length to accomodate the longer bullets in a 308 length magazine without having to seat them too deeply. Incidentally, the Mauser 98 action is perfect for the 260 and 260 AI because the magazine is long enough to use longer bullets and not impact case capacity. With longer cartridges like the 270 the Mauser magazine is not quite long enough. I had to actually cut the tips off of factory 270 ammo to keep them from hanging up in the magazine of my converted Mauser. The Mauser now has a 6.5 Lapua barrel and I'm able to seat bullets way way out. I wanted to use a 260 AI barrel but couldn't get the reamer for it at the time. I still may ream it out to 260 AI but I've been working on other projects and it has been on the back burner.

[@brucehudson3241]

If someone is making a new rifle or rebarelling, the 260 case is great. I think you just set the chamber and magazine the way you need for those longer bullets and any perceived advantage goes away. My point is that 30 years ago, the American public wasn’t sold on 0.264” rounds and the 260 failed commercially largely on those grounds. Coming back with a shortened case based on the 30TC and that doesn’t equate to a better cartridge 30 years later. I do see the value of a longer neck but go back to my original point. If you can beat the velocity with the same bullet, you should be able to beat it. The other items can be controlled in the rifle design itself (twist, throat,etc) Personally I am not dedicated paper puncher, I am a hunter and I pride my shots within a reasonable and responsible distance for my game.

[@robertrogish1038]

Love your channel Ron; Happy New Years to you and your dear wife.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Thanks Robert!

[@rockydaug]

Happy New Year Ron and family, Western Canadian here, we're working on dealing with the Dictator that's running the country

[@rappmasterdugg6825]

Sincere best of luck on that!

[@mikepetrilli4686]

Focus on the "dick" in dictator! 😂😂

[@rickyanke9407]

You mean the one that will soon be running the U. S. ? Putin's lap dog? Yes, Canadians will likely have many issues with him.

[@Yetified_Mayhem]

Amazing country and people! Shithouse dictator!

[@andyeighttre]

Hopefully you get all your guns back!

[@buckdown1658]

I would love to see the 338 Federal and 338 RCM make a comeback. Both are fantastic big game mountain cartridges that work flawlessly out of compact 20" barrels. It's sad

[@Funting3417]

You're gunna have to add a new 7mm to that book from remington ( the 7 backcountry)

[@leskrug9266]

As far as in Pennsylvania, I read that book that we get with our hunting license every year front cover to back cover and I still remember. I wish I would have kept every one of these books from when I started hunting at the age of 12 and now I'm 59 years old but I still remember back in the day when I was a young kid it used to say 22 center fire rifles or larger. And at some point in the 45-47 years that I've been hunting, it changed to center fire rifle to hunt big game and that includes bears in Pennsylvania, which you know they get quite large. And then when it comes to the elk hunting season in Pennsylvania, it stipulates 27 caliber or larger!! So yeah every state is different so if you don't read those rules and regulations you're not going to know every law out there that they have. And at 23 years old my oldest son, my youngest son is 21. I finally got him to start reading those regulation books because something changes every year on the rules and regulations in our hunting manual we get with our license!!!

[@jfess1911]

The 300 and 338 RCM's really depended on Hornady's custom powders to come close to the other short magnums. They were good cartridges (the popular 6.5 PRC is even based on the 338 RCM case), but the RCMs had smaller cases than the other magnums and utilized the proprietary Superformance propellants, so handloaders could not match factory velocities. For handloaders, the WSMs were always a little faster because the cases were larger and held more powder. If you compare the one listed 300 RCM load (178 grain ELD-X) against other Superformance loads with 180 grain SSTs, the 30-06 is only 80fps slower and the 300 Win Mag is 130 fps faster. In other words, the 300 RCM is closer to the 30-06 than 300 Win Mag. The 338 RCM has an even smaller case and is even closer to the 30-06 propellant volume.

[@justinmeasday8930]

That’s true, I have a 338 rcm. I stocked up years ago, and I noticed Hornady just made a fresh run of 338 rcm

[@allengose5438]

I have one of those underated / overlooked / obsolete cartridges the venerable 6.5 Rem Mag in a Rem 673, Sheep, Deer, Antelope, Elk all have fallen DRT in their tracks first shot, I make brass from 7mm mag brass and run the H4831 sc behind a Barnes 120 gr TTSX. Its an Absolute Hammer. When I go hunting its the rifle I grab everytime.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Great to hear, Allen. You are one of the few who use the 6.5 Rem Mag. Wonder how many there actually are?

[@RobertWilliams-um8cv]

@@RonSpomerOutdoors I’m putting 6.5 Rem Mag together right now on a Montana model 99 short action that will accept a col of 3.113 without modding the magazine. It fits in a model 70 short action feather weight stock with minor inletting and normal bedding. I have had great success on deer and a one good size pig with a 6.5 Swede and am looking for a bit more smack past 400 yds.

[@allengose5438]

@@RobertWilliams-um8cv Had really good luck with the Barnes 120 TTSX and 58-59 gr of H4831sc sub moa Shot an elk a while back entered the neck right in front of the shoulder and that barnes bullet traveled nearly all the way up the neck and lodged under the skin on the other side about 4 inches under the jaw. DRT one shot in its tracks (quartering away shot) Redding has the forming dies you need to make 7mm Mag brass into 6.5 Rem Mag Brass you will need to turn the necks

[@Yetified_Mayhem]

I run 130g TTSX in a 18'' 308 barrel. Animals haven't lived to make complaints. Barnes is great!

[@LRRPFco52]

One of my Scout leaders in the 1980s had both a 264 Win Mag and a 6.5 Rem Mag. I was used to shooting my dad's pre-64 Model 70 in 270 Win, but I really liked those 6.5 Magnums.

[@draweme05]

I took the chance with 6.5 grendel. I think it's an excellent round to stretch the legs on the ar 15, I got it for cyote, but I also got the dies in case it didn't make it. Remember too theas guy at the counter only sees what their store is doing. The store down the road could be having a had time keeping "weird calibers" on the shelf.

[@BOBBYSTOLF-t2u]

I love my 280 remington

[@donbenson5292]

Thanks Ron. You answered my question on habitat. Have a good one. Happy New Year!

[@jp7152]

Happy New Year Ron!!!!!!! The best for you and your family!!! Greetings from Santiago de Chile. I hope I will meet you in person someday. Thks for your work!!!

[@BertShackleford]

Happy New Year Mr. and Mrs. Spomer, I happen to own a copy of your 'Predator Hunting' book from way back in 2004-ish. The front cover says, _"Outdoorsman's Edge Guides • Predator Hunting • Proven Strategies That Work From East To West by Ron Spomer"_ with a Coyote laying down while looking at the camera in a snowy, Winter setting. It is a softcover that I fondly remember purchasing from my local Sportsman's Warehouse with great enthusiasm. Not to mention, the plethora of additional items I just _HAD_ to purchase. IE - camo, leafy wear, calls, ammo, boots, snake chaps (because this is Arizona), so on and so forth. You know how we all tend to go nuts with the acquisitions in the beginning. Mind you, this was back in the day when one could barely afford to feed himself. Let alone, spend copious amounts of money on a new hunting hobby that quickly became rather expensive. In more ways than one I might add. As a young bachelor, I can honestly say that the start of my hunting career cost me several girlfriends. Not to mention, a lot of lonely, sleepless and hungry nights. However, the juice was definitely worth the squeeze. I eventually met my future wife shortly before my first Javelina hunt. The rest is blissful history. Nevertheless, I was wondering if there was a way to send you my old copy for a signature/note? I figured I could send you my copy first. Then you could send it back with a new [signed] copy of your 7mm book that I have been eagerly awaiting to purchase. FWIW, I thoroughly enjoy your publications. It is nice to see a fellow grammarian amongst the 2A and Hunting community. Appreciate all you do for us, Mr. Spomer. Stay classy my friend. ~Robert

[@gpearce11]

Theres definitely multiple factors for great cartridges fail. The RCM line is an excellent example of this. The 300 RCM died for two reasons. The first is that it was a Ruger cartridge, and was therefore originally just launched in Ruger rifles. Hornady has since learned this lesson; one of the reasons 6.5 and 7 PRC did so well compared to 6.8 Western is that they were launched in a bunch of different rifles at once, whereas the Western was originally a Winchester/Browning exclusive. There's a reason pretty much only Wetherby is still putting their own name onto new cartridges. The main reason, however, was just timing. 300 RCM is arguably the best overall .308 short magnum, followed closely by .300 SAUM. The only problem is that both came after .300 WSM, which might’ve been a slighly less reliable overall package, but it (a) had a slightly higher FPS on the box, and (b) everyone that wanted a .308 short magnum already had a WSM by the time the RCM came out. And now the RCM is dead and the only surving SAUM is 7mm (a shame, because I think the 338 RCM is a great cartidge that deserves a second chance; I'd still take 300 WSM over 300 RCM). Sometimes it's also marketing. Vortex Nation just did a podcast about the horrificly unsuccessful .243 WSSM; if Winchester had just focused on the fact it fits into AR-15s, instead of trying to push it as a bolt action cartridge (where it's just a less reliable 243 Win), it probably would've received the love that Hornady's 6mm ARC is getting, but alas if you have a 243 WSSM rifle and don't handload, it's a dust collector now.

[@ronws2007]

Awesome reply. And I saw the episode of Vortex Nation podcast you are talking about. The holiday cartridge talks, including lead balloons. And I think you are, of course, spot on correct about the 6.8 W. It was really a proprietary thing. And for people who like to have proprietary stuff, it is hard to compete against Weatherby, although other companies do make stuff for that. As opposed to the 7 PRC that already had several rifle makers building and putting on the market. Then you had a situation of intense ammo demand as the ammo companies struggled to catch up. Mark Boardman at Vortex is the most vocal fan I know of the .300 WSM and he harvested a lot with his Browning A-Bolt. And he just built a new one, this one has a brake on it.

[@jasonwebb4871]

Love your show and content! We’re doing an exercise in our house for my daughter who has decided to start hunting! We’re sure to have great family adventures! Here’s the question/topic: if you were going to have 3 rifles, what would you choose for someone who is a smaller framed shooter? Non-hand loaders for now. So far we’re starting with a .22lr to get her started. We’re thinking 6.5 creed. We’re out west and primarily deer (black, mule) hunting. I personally like the idea of the 280 AI if we draw a tag for larger game. Would love your thoughts on the ideal trifecta. We’re also looking at a 20 gauge for other pursuits. Thanks!

[@JaredRoberts-u6z]

Hi Ron, Jared here from New Zealand. Question for you..... I shoot a 270wsm with suppressor, my suppressor is 12inchs long with 6inchs being muzzel forward and 8inchs being over barrel. I watch all of your content but never see these semi overbarrel suppressors that we use here in New Zealand in America, is there a reason for that? all i see is muzzel forward suppressors. All the best for the New Year. Cheers Jared

[@JSJTOUTDOORS]

Most people already have calibers that will work for what they need. So why buy new stuff ? Is it really worth buying a whole new setup and ammo just to gain 50 more fps?

[@randysmith8604]

Also with the large variety of loaded bullets you can get now you can achieve better ballistics . So the gains are not worth it.

[@RandyBeretta-db5bg]

✨️Love the 300WSM.!✨️

[@JeffJohnson-cw3qz]

Own a Savage Ultralight in 280AI.Easily groups around 3/4 inches with 140 and 160gr accubonds.Ive not had any quality issues,though I would prefer not to have a detachable magazine.

[@TomL3grandsons]

I have a Weatherby Mark V in 280 AI and I love it

[@davidruppel1216]

When I first moved to my property 15.5 years ago, I had lots and lots of quail. But once I got a full blooded Newfoundland, I don't see many anymore. He keeps all the coyotes away too. Which is nice. But I do miss seeing the quail.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

David, unless your dog is regularly patrolling spring nesting habitats, I don't see how it could depress your quail numbers. And if it's keeping coyotes away, that removes another source of quail predation. Something else must be going on. Habitat changes are often subtle. New viruses, fire ants, coons, skunks, mowing, fescue grass instead of annual forbs...

[@TomL3grandsons]

Happy New Year. We had a small population of Pheasants between the Missouri and Mississippi Rivers near the confluence and the Flood of 93 took them out. Some efforts have been made to reintroduce them by private citizens, but the efforts were unsuccessful.

[@hamblin113]

I had heard a similar comments about winter storms and the reduction of Pheasants in Michigan, I understand your statement about habitat is king. But what was talked about on the storms were the ice storms, this was in the 70’s and the saying was the ice made it hard for the pheasants to get to the food. I remember cross country skiing behind my house and came across a Pheasant that was frozen in the ice atop of the snow, it was still alive but couldn’t fly from the ice.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Yes, those ice storms can be devastating. I've witnessed them and their effect on pheasants in SD. But wildlife is resilient and productive. Unless a population is so hemmed in to a small area, it will reproduce and expand to fill adjacent habitats. I've seen it with pheasants, prairie chickens, sharptailed grouse, and bobwhite quail. Look at how raccoons have spread from their native southeast into the prairies of the Dakotas and into the sagebrush mountain west. Consider how whitetails spread from the east and midwest into the plains states when crops and increased water (wells, ponds, etc) became available.

[@tomcase6287]

Be square makes off set rings for most long action rifles.

[@BornAgain2019]

I have a 300 RCM in a Ruger M77 Hawkeye Compact Magnum rifle with a 20" bbl and iron sights. Its a combo that makes for a wonderful lite rifle for medium to large game out to moderate ranges. Takes care of 90% of all shooting senarios. My Win mod 70 sporter in 300 Win mag with a 26" bbl covers the other 10% but isnt as handy to carry all day. I have many other big game rifles in other chamberings also, they all work you just need to know their strengths and weaknesses. Happy New Year.

[@ironmaiden4746]

Hi Ron! On the cabelas comments, I totally 100% agree! Here in Regina Saskatchewan Canada store, they have these types of associates so I do my homework before going in there and never let them sway my choices.

[@mikehemphill524]

Response to shot placement comment: This is not intended as correcting you, just extra information. I was reading a thread on a forum while researching Sellier Bellot's (S&B) Exergy (mono-metal) bullet. One commenter said he worked for S&B and that particular bullet was designed to shoot through the shoulder rather than behind it. He thought that might be where people are having issues with it because it performed fantastically on game. I also watched a KZbin video that I'll not name where they placed a deer scapula in ballistic gel and compared the results of using an all copper bullet, a bonded bullet, and a cup and core bullet at different distances. They used a control of shooting each bullet into ballistic gel without the scapula, as well. The copper bullet and the bonded bullet both did well going through the scapula while the cup and core bullet fragmented too much. The latter results are why hunters are taught to wait for the closer leg to move forward. With copper bullets, this shot will lead to a pass through with minimal expansion. Ultimately, people need to research the bullet they are going to use to determine the appropriate shot placement for best results. I thoroughly enjoy your videos on KZbin and your articles online. They are packed with valuable information. Keep passing that knowledge along!

[@rosswitte]

I saw that same video. I was so happy they used a bone in front of the gel to see what the projectiles would do.

[@SammyMoore-tg5gs]

What do you mean the cup and core bullet fragmented “too much”?

[@mikehemphill524]

@@SammyMoore-tg5gs, it went through the scapula but lost a lot of mass in the process. It can still kill but may not kill as quickly as most people prefer. It may also result in not having an exit wound. That's not a deal breaker, but it's also not optimal.

[@SammyMoore-tg5gs]

@@mikehemphill524 are you talking about the MeatEater video from 2 years ago? Their testing was okay, but their analysis was incredibly disappointing

[@mikehemphill524]

@SammyMoore-tg5gs, I believe that's who it was.

[@retkar1]

Talley makes extended front rings which I use on all my Winchester/Leupold combos. This gives me the room needed to get proper eye relief.

[@percussion44]

Hornady and Nosler were pretty clear. They don't load or endorse the 6.8 Western because it detracts from their own proprietary offerings, ie 6.5 and 7 PRC and 27 Nosler.

[@jimedick9496]

I hope Federal starts loading for the 6.8 Western. I love mine!! It’s an amazing carriage!!

[@BertShackleford]

​@@jimedick9496 Federal's _Terminal Ascent_ in *6.8 Western* would be AMAZING! We also need a 6.8 Western offering using the Barnes _LRX._ Although, Barnes would have to design a new .277" projectile since their heaviest offering is only 150 grains. While the current Winchester Copper Impact load is already 162 grains. However, I cannot seem to recall the heaviest (.277") Federal projectile in their Terminal Ascent line. I surmise Federal would also have to develop a new .277" projectile to work with the *6.8 Western.* Either way, we are covered with just those two alternative options. Meanwhile, _Browning's 175gr Sierra Tipped Game King_ and _Winchester's 165gr AccuBond Long Range_ have already proven themselves beyond a reasonable doubt. Be that as it may, I still prefer Federal ammunition over all others. Just stay tuned to SHOT Show 2025, folks. We may be in for a pleasant surprise! Stay classy my friends.

[@danielrobey1759]

The reality is that in most cases the gains offered by the new wonder cartridge of the month aren't enough to justify the cost and hassle of dealing with a new round... There's a lot to be said for the old tried and true cartridges even if they aren't as exciting as the new stuff.

[@VincentDonovan-qn5wi]

I hear You. Thanks

[@mikemelina7395]

I see a new hole in the plaque this week Ron, congratulations on .500K subscribers.

[@charlessmith6506]

The reason is the newer stuff dont kill any better than the older

[@jacobdeem8499]

I wouldn’t trust any retail reps on anything

[@The_Cowboy_Hunter_Podcast]

I mean a lot of things depend on the rep, some guys are actually talked into the market and care about details. Many are simply going to fail because many things are region based and hunting type matters for every different thing. There’s a comment in here about a guy out east hearing from Cabelas that no one is buying a 6.8 and it’s bound to go no where, well yes out east where it wasn’t designed for and other things are probably better designed will sell better.

[@CanPat777]

I know a manager at Cabela's who said the same thing about the 6.8 Western, "do not buy one, the cartridge will not last."

[@adamwiggins5777]

Hopefully he’s wrong! Seems like everyone wants it to fail except hunters

[@tonypimm8940]

@@adamwiggins5777. I’m not sure that people want cartridges to fail. But we’ve seen so many really good cartridges fail commercially that we can be a bit jaded when it comes to a new one. Even if it is better for some reason.

[@TheGunNerd]

I know someone who works at a cabelas who says "it's a cool cartridge but the market for "big bullet go way over there and hit hard" is so oversaturated that with winchester's suboptimal marketing and hornady saying they won't make ammo for the cartridge, I don't think it'll work." Seeing as I'm on the east coast and haven't met a single person using the new cartridge, I can't say I disagree

[@Hunting4knowledge]

​@@TheGunNerd Hornaday won't load for it because it's better than their 7 PRC that can't hit box posted velocity. I get it, it's competition and they need to make money, not the best ammo.

[@TheGunNerd]

@Hunting4knowledge yeah they need to fix the 7prc velocities right now, and I understand that they want to say they make the best ammo even if they don't, they're a business first and foremost. I do still think they should make 6.8 western tho

[@KLLocgicalTruth]

Happy new year

[@TonyYork-KB9RAO]

Why do those fail? Because 30-06 still works....

[@rockie307]

Yep, and if you look at modern ammo for the 30-06 like the winchester 190 gr accubond lr it outperforms every factory load for the 280 ai and beats the 7mm rem mag out past 300 yards. Really for big game hunting doesn't make sense to go with some of the newer, more expensive, less available rounds unless stepping up significantly to one of the 300 magnums.

[@paulcox9366]

Think the 300 PRC should be here to stay. Well mine is and i love it. Bought it because couldn't get a Howa 300 win mag in Australia new 3 months ago

[@Justin-nx5ou]

Pheasants can get hit hard in a north Midwest winter. Mild winters lead to much stronger spring populations and better fall hunting.

[@krishegland3702]

I grew up in Alaska. Never once did I feel the need for a firearm or taser while picking berries. I expect better from you Ron.

[@geothunder1971]

Theres the regional factor also with certain cartridges, some parts of the country like rounds that fit their criteria

[@Mccaid]

Ive got a 30-06. A (insert best new round here) would be a better choice, but is it better enough to drop 2 grand on a new rifle and optics? Maybe to some people, but i think not to most of us and I think thats why its so hard for new "superior" rounds to take off.

[@frankanderson8026]

In response to the pheasant decrease is in part to changes in farming practices

[@Sageofthe16]

in iowa, the windmills changed alot with pheasants. aledgely they kill raptors

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Indeed. Farming practices are probably THE determining factor in pheasant numbers. With the right mix of grain fields and undisturbed grass/forb nesting cover, pheasants can thrive. But convert square miles of mixed habitat to monocultured crops and all ground nesting bird numbers plummet. Think about it. The ground is bare at planting, then sprayed to control weeds, then likely sprayed to kill the insects chicks require for food, then cut in fall to leave no escape cover from predators. A square mile of wheat, oats, corn, or any crop is useless to birds except as a food source for birds hatched and protected on any bordering habitat. But when one field abuts another and another and those abut yet more -- where can any ground nesting bird survive?

[@paulvandenberg5341]

@@RonSpomerOutdoors lack of refuges, nesting habitat, and the massive increase in the use of pesticides have really made pheasants extinct in my neighborhood. They can be found in areas that have large areas in grass as conservation set asides. Quail do ok in the brush piles and fringes. I have a pair nesting in my vegetable garden every year. Insectides have radically decreased the insect population. The Neonicitanoids are especially nasty.If you don’t have to wash dead bugs off your windshield there is no food for baby birds.

[@bulgarianhunter9742]

Greetings from Bulgaria Ron. Have a nice 2025 year!

[@PerkinrBR549]

One of the best bear rifles I ever saw was an AR10 chambered for the 338 Federal. This had been built for an Alaskan guide. His explanation was that if he had to go into the scrubs to Finnish a poorly shot grizzly or brownie that cartridge will put as much kinetic energy or more at 5 to 10 yards as a 338 mag will at 150 200 yards. The cartridge can be loaded with partician bullets and use 10 to 15 round magazines. Giving him an incredible advantage over their customers rifles. I think he speaks the truth.

[@salacommander2674]

Betsy's keeping Ron on his toes in this one 😂

[@davidl.39]

Happy New Year Ron and Betsy, wishing you all the best in 2025 and thank you both for all you are doing to keep us in the know. Up here in Canada we are hoping to get rid of our prime minister so we just might get to keep our firearms...

[@lawrencesears7255]

I've been eating squirrel for years. I like mine with bbq sauce on the grill.

[@Dale37]

I have been wanting a 6.8 Western since it's inception and have held back due to the slow rise to fame. After watching this video, I am gonna buy the X-bolt I want chambered in 6.8 Western cause it will never get the credit it deserves if everyone sits around waiting.

[@edbredemeyer2833]

The RCMs are excellent --it may comeback

[@CollierKolt45]

Hello Ron, I've hunted deer and elk in several states in the west from backcountry to front country archery, rifle, and muzzleloader. I'm getting the itch to go to New Zeland or Alaska. What we're a couple of your most memorable adventures?

[@cc-fn3mc]

I noticed the full copper bullets do not mushroom at much if at all is that a problem?

[@garageliving3658]

Velocity is key for copper bullets 2k+fps will do fine for expansion. Only reason for copper is large thick animals that you need ultra deep penetration, otherwise bonded bullets will work just fine, especially if you have a big enough cartridge for the animal.

[@SammyMoore-tg5gs]

Copper bullets maintain their weight in animals, which retains momentum, which allows the bullets to penetrate more deeply. In doing so, they make much narrower permanent wound channels but almost always leave an exit wound. The animal will either exsanguinate or suffocate more slowly because of the smaller wound channel. A way around this would be to intentionally shoot through bone. Not only would the bone initiate expansion earlier, the bone fragments from the impact would create their own expansion of the wound channel.

[@C_oprator89]

Please post the field strip of deer meat!!

[@Dale37]

This season is the first time I have ever used a 22-250 on whitetail deer, using a 50 grain Barnes TTSX it dropped a buck in his tracks with one shot to the shoulder. Very underpowered round, I do not recommend. 😅

[@EternalClimb]

Dr Mr Spomer, any chance of you covering the information from these video titles in greater depth? Perhaps on your other channel? I always get so excited by the title only to find that it's a 5 second snippet from the video....

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

I hear you, Eternal, but this is a challenge because we cover so many questions. Listing them all is impossible. I have been trying to add more in the description, but even there space is limited. Betsy's suggesting we treat the thumbnail description/topic in more depth than the other ones. We'll try that. Thanks for your suggestion!

[@linsy1971]

My .243 WSSM is much better than a “normal” .243 but, it’s basically gone.

[@chrisdaniel1339]

There are a few other reasons Ron missed as to why people will not jump on new calibers: the biggest is cost, quality firearms are not cheap and it cost a lot of money to buy a new gun, new proprietary ammo, possibly new dies and reloading equipment, etc. New Rounds are ballistic twins with other established cartridge where switch offers very little gain to the average shooter: 6.5 CM is a perfect example, the 260 Rem and 6.5x55 Swede are for all intents and purposes ballistic twins, there is such a miniscule gain in the CM that it does not justify the cost of switching calibers. Another example is the 30 T/C which is a 308 Win copy with zero benefits and many detriments as far a finding a rifle to chamber it, especially when the 308 is nearly universal. No new rounds are actually needed: The myriad of cartridges developed in the last 135 years will take every game species on the planet, why risk a cartridge failing: The failure of WSM/ WSSM family of cartridges or the 30 T/C, people have rifles chambered and it is nearly impossible to find ammo unless they reload.

[@jamesheine6249]

I think timing has alot to do with it. If you notice some of these new better cartridges that come out during economic downturns fail.

[@rodneyharouff5739]

that 800% quail increase was jaw-droppin'!

[@JohnJ-bz6wq]

Thanks, but I would just rebarrel an existing .270 w/ a faster twist barrel (or a doner 30-06..) ....Short action vs. Long action...PFFFT weight difference ?? Only that of several rounds of ammo.... Accuracy...? Can't be seen under field conditions

[@Patriot2332]

As far as guns go, I own a Remington model 700 7mm Rem Mag and it gets the job done fairly easily. I'm not interested in switching to a newer gun because somebody wants to make more money by trying to fix what ain't broke. But, I haven't tested a bunch of different ammo in my gun. The guy I bought the gun from was a reloader. I'm still using what he had loaded for this gun, but its very accurate. Since watching this channel, I plan to test some different ammo in my 7mm and my 243. I have always used hornady American whitetail in my 243. I shot a buck with it at 300 yards and hit his spine in his neck and the hornady round shattered. The buck dropped but it made me leary of taking longer shots with that gun. I'm going to order some different ammo for that 243. Any recommendations?

[@johnbatson8779]

Have reloaded my ammo for 55 years and my experience shows that whatever cartridge you use try and keep the velocities between 2,600 to 2,800 feet per second at the muzzle for optimal accuracy and bullet performance. Went to Namibia this summer with a 300 RUM using 180 grain bullets going 2,700 ft per second and dropped 11 animals with 12 shots at distances between 200-450 meters. Just my thoughts on the subject of hunting cartridges

[@swampbucker1]

In Minnesota you are not supposed to have a pistol on you while bow hunting unless you have a permission slip.

[@approachingtarget.4503]

Congratulations on the top 5. After joining the live feed last night. I was able to think more about a certain topic in rifle calibers. You have always said smaller calibers will get the job done. While a soft tissue shot is most certainly a way to take game. It's when those targets have more than soft skin or organ hits. I think there is a minimum energy on impact practice. Basically any rifle caliber can achieve this energy below 300 yds. And shot guns or straight wall cartridges will also at shorter ranges. The smaller 22-27 calibers are performing very well, i don't believe they have the same impact if they hit hard material such as bone or thick slabs of meat. Obviously, hand loads and different bullet profiles can alter that penetration performance. I truly believe the energy on impact and through the entire target, favors the larger calibers. You stated to prove that in the video. The only way I could prove this from my experience is as a Marine. The head shot impacts on enemies is proof in the pudding for me. When in desert storm. Helmeted enemies could have continued to fight from the 5.56. The 7.62 was a lights our result. Both calibers provide similar energy on impact below 300 yrds/ meters. But I can tell you from my ability to come home alive, the 7.62 I used as a DM for our unit. Is proof that the bigger .30 calibers just hit harder. In my deer hunting experience. The concussion does more than slice and dice the vitals. The larger calibers give that additional shock factor. If we compare the impacts on Bison . The 45-70 unloads that energy sooner. A 3006 with a solid copper will obviously go deeper. But what has been the most humane for the hunt? Your wife exclaimed that the .277 is getting more popular among the gun industry. That is true. In favor of going smaller to a 24 or 25 caliber, the military is proving 6.8,.277 is minimum for performance. They would love to incorporate an even smaller caliber for troop abilities and movement. But war time has proven what works. If no additional weight was added. I believe the military would use a 338 across the board. A few of us that served together are already using the 338 for everything. Even sabot rounds with the .277 for coyote.

[@SammyMoore-tg5gs]

Energy isn’t a wounding mechanism and doesn’t tell you anything about what kind of wound you’re going to get based on impact. If I tell you I have 2 .308 loads, one of which impacts with 2007 ft/lbs of energy at 200 yds and the other with 2073 ft/lbs at 200 yds, what do the wound channels look like? You can’t possibly know because you don’t know what projectiles are being used and you don’t know the impact velocity.

[@m444ss]

Ballistically Superior Cartridges? Let's all remember, Ron, ballistically "inferior" cartridges that still cleanly take game aren't really inferior. The fact remains that the most likely hunter in the USA is someone after whitetail at ranges inside 300 yards and quite often well inside 150 yards. A single shot on deer in Appalachian woods with 444 Marlin from a lever action is just as likely to bag a deer or black bear as a 280 Remington from a $3,000 custom bolt rifle. Dozens of cartridges will cleanly handle that hunting situation with just one shot despite being "ballistically inferior. As for why some cartridges are not commercially successful: it's noteworthy that many people make judgements based on emotional responses that have little or nothing to do with facts, even in the hunting and shooting community...often the basis of successful marketing.

[@SammyMoore-tg5gs]

Don’t get your feelings hurt too badly there bud. Ron was picking on your favorite cartridges, even though he was imprecise with his language. It would have been better for him to say cartridges with superior internal (arguable) and external (inarguable) ballistics rather than superior ballistics. You are right that, for hunters, terminal ballistics is the most important aspect of any cartridge and bullet design, with reliable accuracy being the next highest on the list but also being relative to the type of hunting. That being said, the newer cartridges that are designed with tighter machining tolerances produce more consistently accurate rifles even in the budget rifle categories, and, for us western hunters that may be presented with 350-600 yd shots on game, the superior exterior ballistics of the more modern cartridges designed to shoot heavy for caliber, high bc projectiles makes a big difference.

[@brianklamer3328]

I had considered a 7mm PRC but now read that the velocities are much less than stated. Will just keep my old 700 Sendero in 7mm Rem Mag.

[@jaydunbar7538]

It depends on if your hand loading, the reloader 26 powder required for the factory ammunition to hit the goals is not available as its made in Europe. For hand loaders there are other powder options to get the performance, so if your hand loading its a none issue. Its not really an issue with factory ammunition either so long as your using the real trajectory, but that sort of confirmation is always best practice.

[@SammyMoore-tg5gs]

@@jaydunbar7538 Reloder 26 isn’t available anymore because Alliant collapsed and is being sold piece-meal to pay off debts.

[@AlanThomas-hp3fn]

Called diminishing returns. There are plenty of common cartridges that do the work just fine. Without extra cost and scare ammo.

[@jeffreylocke8808]

I love the 7mm-08 but it is basically a 7 x 57 Mauser with less recoil using a 22 inch barrel.

[@hendrikvanderschyff7812]

If you can load 175gr bullets in your 7mm08 and feed from the magazine, your comment might be close to correct.

[@eggbert191]

The guy from Canada is very wrong. We can carry shotguns on both public and private land for wilderness defense. There are some restrictions inside certain parks or designated areas but generally it's allowed. You must be able to prove it was last resort and not poaching. Carrying bear spray is also allowed. Google search ai summary even has the laws wrong about magazine capacity for shotguns

[@davidmaki542]

In the 70; s and 80.s Snow shoe hares were plenty full. They were fun to hunt and delicious. Suddenly they were gone. Habitat , hasn't changed, maybe predators. All I know is I haven't seen one in years. Sad. (PS) Happy New Year. (PSS) Northern WI.

[@45-70Guy]

That’s a bummer they have slowly declined, in our state the northern region is loaded with snowshoe hares, I love seeing them and the grouse thriving in the thick Douglas fir and cedar forests. The coyotes we try to keep in check by trapping

[@brian770]

getting ready to watch now, but the reason some really great ballistically superior cartridges fail has to be market over saturation.....you have 4-6 new improved cart all competing for the same $$$, and while on paper they are outstanding, and at over 400 yards they are hands down the better choice, what most big brain ammo executives dont get is the AVERAGE hunter will never need it. why replace the ( insert grandpa's cartridge here) 243, 270, 308/30-06, or 300WM with the newest cartridge that pretty much does the same thing only realistically what 5% better. i get it, new is exciting, but do we really need another 6MM or 270... do we need a replacement for the 220 swift...cause now there are 4-5 22 cartridges trying to... 7MM, same thing to many choices leads to bad things, something to be said for the old classics, and there is a reason they have survived as long as they have. because the knows they wont need sub moa at 700 yards new techno beast that the ammo manufactures are trying to PUSH on everybody as a must have, the old 300WM will do just fine yesterday, today, and in 50 more years. Weatherby tried the same thing forever ago and is now just the biggest player in the "novelty" market, and thats why they are now selling all /most of their guns in "normal" cal.

[@franzputsch254]

I think people forget that calibers and cartridges are still products. Products need to be sold.

[@RealMrBen]

Love the barrel, bedding and stock on my 33. Had it so hot you cant touch it. Then shot a quick 3 rd group, it did better then the groups when the barrel was cold lol. Couldnt tell if it was 3 or 2😁

[@GenePutnam]

Attention Ron: Wondering if you have had any experience with “cold bore shot” in a rifle? I purchased a Browning BAR chambered in 30-06 a few years ago and could not get it zeroed due to something called “cold bore shot”. The first shot out of a cold barrel was always 7” to 9” low and then come up to target range after that. Would like to know more about this.

[@ronnieskaggs8148]

Logically it sounds like you might be beginning to need a new barrel?

[@45-70Guy]

That seems very extreme on a difference in a cold bore shot. Any of my rifles that i considered “bad” would be an 1” off in any direction for a cold bore shot. I’ve never seen on consistent that did as much as yours

[@ronnieskaggs8148]

@45-70Guy if it is consistently off the same on the first shot with a cold barrel it would make sense that when the barrel is warmer the barrel tolerances are smaller taking up the small amount of space in the cold barrel which would be more inaccurate.

[@GenePutnam]

@@ronnieskaggs8148 This was a new rifle.

[@chrisgunsandguitars1403]

The cold bore shot is what you want to zero your rifle at. This will take some time, maybe several days at the range. Still….7-9” POI is a bit crazy, and other factors may be in play.

[@clcmarc]

The Blizzard of 1978 was devastating to our pheasant and quail populations. Drifts over 12-15’ filled in every speck of cover for the birds with temperatures well below zero. Admittedly populations in the 1970’s was already declining from the 50-60’s locally but that historic storm killed virtually all of them. In the years after, I believe I only ever saw 1 quail and less than 5 roosters while farming and hunting the area. We just lost the entire population and they never came back. This storm came so fast and furious that animals could not seek better cover quickly enough.

[@doylethorn9251]

Just a little info on Pigs. The lungs are very small. On a broad side shot, the lungs don't come out past the elbow. Strait up the front leg in the lower 1/3 of the body will center mass the heart and lungs. If you hit an inch or two off the elbow towards the back of the pig, the best to hope for is a liver shot. Liver shots don't bleed well even with an exit wound.

[@cjrodriguez34]

Anything within 400yds can be covered with .223 to 50BMG, people already know what works for them/their need. PRS/ELD/LRH, may require you moving to 6BR, 6dash, 6GT, etc. People want usually military rounds, knowing that no matter what, someone will be producing it. People want easy access, Walmart holds an essential role in the USA, you get the old school ammo (90%) and some of the new ammo (10%-6.5 creedmoor). Walmart will not chase wildcats or new calibers, specifically when most manufacturers cannot prove the new ammo is 15%-20% better than what already exists. Most of us cannot even bulk up with ammo on our existing ones, why would we get into something new at over $1.50/rd? Can’t even afford to practice? Example: I saw 2 new Ruger rifles this week for $350, both Gen 1, one is 6.5 Grendel and the other is 243…I get 6.5G is “superior”, but 243 can do 99% of what I would need it to do and still get ammo.

[@johnnorman7708]

It's rare when the gun seller is a true professional with deep, broad knowledge of the subject.

[@linkbond08]

I've noticed a few things over the years, military cartridges tend to stick around, and documented performance on game helps, good and often advertising helps, when more than one cartridge company starts to make it that helps, only lately has the long range shooters been an influence. For example the 6.5 Grendel is got the performance, made by many companies, but has little advertisement, so it's kind of obscure, only people in the know jump on it. While the 6 mm arc is got the performance, is advertised everywhere, but is mainly made by Hornady, (that I know of,) so only people who plan on reloading for it jump on it.

[@stefanocappella9612]

I got on the 6.5 creed wagon didn't like it so I sold it. I prefer my 243 and 270 🇨🇦

[@SammyMoore-tg5gs]

Why didn’t you like the 6.5 creedmoor?

[@SandyRavaged]

The one that gets me is the 6.8 spc saami spec typo. If that wouldn’t have happened I can probably guess we wouldn’t have had all the wasted taxpayer money on the entire 6.8x51 nonsense.

[@johnnorman7708]

It isn't the seller as much as it is the fickle nature of buyers. Perception tends to be the driving force.

[@bradleyhayne]

308 in a 130grain bullet is very popular for bush pigs in australia. also good for availability and cost

[@SammyMoore-tg5gs]

The idea that the main reason manufacturers come out with new cartridges is to get people who have a similar cartridge to switch to the new one is stupid. That’s a bad business model. Sure, a small amount of consumers may switch, but the main idea is to make a better cartridge for those looking for a better cartridge in whatever slot they’re looking to fill.

[@slowsqueeze]

Sometimes they fail because the wrong person tries to shove them down your throat! They do this because they’re getting paid, we call that sponsorship. When we as customer see it and feel like we’re getting choked on the 6.8 western or the 22 ARC instantly the air smells awfully fishy

[@tjlastname5192]

I think it has a lot to do with price too. I was comparing .300 win mag with another similar, but better cartridge, (forget which one) and the price difference was crazy. I can’t expect those retail workers to know the ballistics of every cartridge.

[@no_regerts5176]

The limiting factor in my hunts is me. Not BC or ogives or any of that. Probably the same for most of us that don’t shoot at game much over 300 yards. Heck, I’m using 140gr Partitions at 2800fps from a 7x57 and a fixed 6x scope. I’ve killed blacktails, whitetails, mule deer, Rocky and Roosevelt elk, and pronghorn with it.

[@mr.mr.3301]

Reasons not to buy a new cartridge 1 ammo is more expensive initially 2 normally not much better than something already out 3 not all ammo manufactures are making cartridges. Handloading takes care of most of the issues.

[@warrengreen3217]

Not for the 6.5creed they made to many rifle chambered in it and it so popular its the same price as 308 or 30-06

[@mr.mr.3301]

@ true. That is why I said normally. Generally speaking the chance of a new cartridge dying is higher than it taking off. I’d say recently the 6.5 cm is the biggest success followed by the 6.5,7 and 300 prc.

[@GearyWalizer]

The 300 RCM failed for a number of reasons. First off, it falls in an energy category that eliminates 95% of shooters, and it only duplicates the 300 Winchester mag, which is a member of the classic cartridge club....CCC. Next, it was offered in rifle options that included a higher price point. The bottom line is that only a very small population of hunters sneak through heavy cover hunting animals that are willing to eat them. And if you do fall in that group of hunters, a classic 24' barreled 300 winchester is a trusted option, as is the 338 Winchester mag.

[@brandonmadden4169]

Here in New York, our state government fat shames semi automatic pistols. If they weigh more than 50 oz they are classified as an assault pistol and they think they are too dangerous to own. So a 357 magnum standard desert eagle is illegal but the L5 model in 50 ae comes in at 49 oz is completely fine. The BFR revolver in 45/70 government and the T/C encore pistol in 600 nitro express is also fine. But wait, it gets worse. In New York to purchase ANY semi automatic rifle, you have to have a pistol permit that takes about 6 months and $800 to acquire just to purchases ruger 10/22. Semi automatic shotguns however are completely fine to purchase without a permit. New York is the most communist place in this country. They even regulate the type of material you can wear for hunting. All kuiu brand clothing has the material in it and it’s a $2,500 fine if you get caught wearing it. Our governor is a communist dictator and something needs to be done about it.