The Most Difficult Game to Hunt? - Season 2: Episode 32

Welcome to the Ron Spomer Outdoors Podcast! In this episode, I tell you a story about my toughest hunt yet!
Links:
Website: ronspomeroutdoors.com/
Facebook: / ronspomeroutdoors
Instagram: / ronspomer
Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
Produced by: Red 11 Media - www.red11media.com/
Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely.

[@joelmcmahan7386]

Another good debate that most hunters have their own opinion about. Big game or small , gun or archery we are all on the same team. Good shooting to Ron S and fans. 🎥💯👍

[@richarddixon7276]

I really enjoy these podcasts , they are so informative & Ron has an excellent voice for narration . Thanks Ron . Shoot Straight Stay Safe & Stay Well .

[@jeanmorin3247]

This so perfect to get under the covers and listen to a bedtime story with bucks coming in and out of the wood line, just for you to have a good look at before ending the day.... Thank you Ron. Hunting stories are the best things in life for urban dwellers who were born elsewhere...

[@user-vn4by9dr4p]

I watched most of Ron’s videos! But the day I was at safari club and he walked up to our both I couldn’t believe I was looking at the man himself! It was an honor to talk to him wish we had more time to talk guns!

[@jonoj7666]

Your a brilliant writer Ron and to hear you read it just makes it even better 👌🤠👍

[@RonSpomerOutdoors-Podcast]

Many thanks, Jono.

[@johnnash5118]

During my 40 years of hunting both Muleys and Blacktails with bow and rifle, I can tell you unequivocally that Blacktails are by far the toughest game to hunt. They're masters of cover and that's all there is in Northwestern Oregon. Edit addition: The average Blacktail hunter success rate is @7%. 93 out of 100 Blacktail hunters are soaked, tired and humbled when they get back home with an unfilled tag.

[@Kaseyaught6]

Grey Ghosts.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors-Podcast]

John, I agree. I once wrote an article detailing how blacktails out whitetail whitetails. Wariest deer I've ever pursued.

[@jk-kr8jt]

Right on Ron, the biggest live muley I've seen was in the side yard on a house in a small town. The old boy who lived there was working in the front yard. I backed up to get a better look. The gentleman told me that deer hangs around all year and even will eat the food out of the dogs bowl. Beautiful to see. Cheers, Jeff

[@danieltustison822]

I'm 52yrs old and as kid I read many hunting and firearm mags so I can honestly say you are truly in same league as Skeeter Skelton Bill Jordan and all the so manys. Thank you

[@jimmiefarris4218]

Excellent written story,Ron.I really enjoyed this video. Thanks for sharing. Felt like I was there hunting with you.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors-Podcast]

Thank you, Jimmie.

[@flyonbyya]

What a fantastic video ! I learned more than I could have ever imagined !

[@brandon7079]

I believe i just watched you shoot that deer last night on tv. Fixing fences and the box on your atv.

[@stevenkimber4735]

Thank you sir. It’s always good to learn something

[@nathancovington544]

Blacktail in California’s 100+ degree summer. The elements are as difficult to deal with as the deer are smart. Also the states garbage policies make any hunt difficult.

[@mefirst5427]

Love these podcasts, wealth of knowledge and interesting anecdotes.

[@wilberfifer5563]

Thanks Ron. Mule Deer are having a tough go it seems.

[@kurtbogle2973]

Black tail in the Rain Forest.

[@Weatherby406]

In the lower 48 Public land whitetail on the prairie or elk.

[@brianarmstrong2096]

Guns,ammo, ballistics and that stuff are fun to watch but I would love to hear more hunting stories. After all that’s what all the gun practice is all about.

[@flyonbyya]

Imagine what it would have been like 150 years ago!

[@edwardabrams4972]

I don’t know what it was like 150 years ago but 60 years ago when I first started hunting with my father there was game everywhere and most hunters hunted for meat not antler size and you just went down to the store and bought a tag not all this draw stuff and point savers for who knows how long.

[@ronlowney4700]

🤠 At a recent Sportsmans Banquet, I caught up to my college Zoology Professor (a leading authority on Deer Mice and the spread of Hantavirus) and was discussing CWD (and other similar diseases) impacting our Mule Deer populations! He is also on the Governors Board for disease control and is knowledgeable on deer diseases! What he was telling me is of real concern! 🤯 As bad as the Wolf Reintroduction has been to our deer populations (as well as the explosion of other predators), it is the diseases that are primarily responsible for the decrease of our Mule Deer populations! Specifically, CWD is of Real Concern to both our Wildlife and Cattle Industry (Montana supplies 1/3 of all the 32.5 million cattle to the U.S. consumer)! Unfortunately, FWP introduced the "Whitetail Deer" (an invasive species) into our Western Montana Valleys back in the 1950's and they have overtaken most of the lowland areas, all while spreading diseases to our mule deer populations! They have more fawns and have them more often, so their competition for similar habitat has pushed the big mule deer to higher ground! Combine that with Wolf Packs, Cougars, and hungry Grizzlies, and you've got to go to the high country to find your trophy! Even in the "Trophy"/"Limited" draw areas, it has finally become apparent (though it was to me 30 years ago) to the "wildlife biologists" (apparently not the sharpest crayons in the box) that hunting pressure by humans is not the main reason for the mule deer's decline (it was their own "Wildlife Management Decisions")! 😡 If only they would have listened to the people that they are working for, we wouldn't have had half of the problems that we do! The Government was also responsible for the killing of big sage brush (another mule deer staple that takes several hundred years to grow to full maturity) through the spraying of toxic chemicals like DDT (Endrine/Agent Orange) or Roundup (Which is still being sold over the counter, even though they lost a lawsuit on it's toxic effects! How is this being allowed still?) and are contaminating our fisheries and water supplies as well! The people that have a better understanding and agree with each other on the "Wolf Management Strategies" of the Government are the Ranchers/Farmers and the Sportsman and both need to be actively working together to force these Agencies to be "Accountable" for their "Destructive Management Decisions" (these are a just a few of many)! We are now on the verge of loosing both our Wildlife and Cattle Industry (i.e. our food supply)! We cannot let their "Mis-Management" continue or we will loose everything because of their Stupidity! We have to get the preditor species under control and all invasive species (wildlife, fish, and noxious weeds - which our own Government planted to stabilize the soil after our dust bowl days - removed!)! Our food supply and habitat management needs to become a top priority (with better measurables/deliverables, and the incompetent agency managers held personally and financially accountable and removed/sued)!!! 🤬

[@RonSpomerOutdoors-Podcast]

Ron, you make some good points, but you might want to double check that claim of whitetails being introduced as an invasive species to western MT. They are native to N. ID and, since the dividing line between it and Montana is arbitrary, I suspect that easily crossed into Montana valleys all by their lonesome. A more likely scenario is they pioneered new territories as humans alterations to the land (farming, crops) made conditions ripe for them. Even now they are moving from their traditional N. ID haunts into southern ID where irrigated alfalfa fields and other crops are to their tastes. As for CWD wiping out mule deer herds, ID's mule deer have been declining and we first found CWD in our deer within the last year. Besides, deer with CWD usually live well into their reproductive years, the older animals succumbing to the disease, giving them plenty of time to reproduce. I could be off base with this, but that's what my research has uncovered.

[@jk-kr8jt]

Ron Lowney, I agree with most of what you say. Unfortunately it will never happen. We now manage for predators instead of game. Not everything can be blamed on predators, but since they are not managed, they take out a bunch of game, especially fawns. CWD is a problem that is not going away. I've always said that if you have good mule deer habit and population, kill every whitetail in the area. They seem to breed more aggressively, run mule deer off, monopolize the better feed, just make life tough for mule deer.

[@ronlowney4700]

🤠 They brought them in to the mountain valley's Jefferson and Ruby Valley in the 1950's and released them (That is a FACT) - I am sure of that! Only the mule deer can eat pine needles, but now the whitetails are even cross breeding with them in some of the higher mountain areas, because they have so encroached on their habitat! Then, the biologists planted the Madison River with hatchery fish and it took them 20 years to figure out that their "Management Stragity" was actually having negative effects on the wild trout! Now we have the Utah chub in that watershed, Whiriling Disease, invasive muscles, etc...and last year the lazy hydrologist that was managing the dam on the upper Madison (Quake Lake, though this happed on the Ruby dam too) was reading the stream gauges from his office computer rather than going out and checking them on a regular basis and they drained the reservoir and the upper river COMPLETELY DRY - upsetting both the farmers and the sportsman! 🤯 The same FWP helicopter flighted wild sheep from Anaconda, Montana to the Ruby Valley and after 5 years, once the wild sheep intermingle with the domestic sheep and gave them diseases, they had to remove them! The average wolf that neither the sportsman nor rancher doesn't want costs us taxpayers $1.2/ year per wolf for them to "Manage"! Bison is $800,000 per year per Bison to manage - and how do they "Manage" them? All they do is get on a horse and push them back into the mountains from the valley every morning (but Bison can't eat pine needles, so they migrate back down the mountain at night to eat grass on the valley floor and the same cycle of stupidity is repeated the next day - some "Management Stragity"! 😂)! Then, FWP, instead of removing invasive Pike and Musky dumped into Canyon Ferry Lake on the Missouri, which migrated up into the Headwaters of the Madison, Jefferson, and Gallatin rivers - FWP spent millions to build a warm water fish hatchery and plant it with more! Now, they want to drain all 3 dams and remove them 5 years later! They keep creating problems where their aren't any with all their "bright ideas" and wasting our tax dollars (job creation and raises for them)! Meanwhile, they collect money on Moose LISENCES and yet Not One Penny goes back into "Managing" the Species (of which we have the biggest moose in the lower 48 states, which they have pretty much destroyed with their wolf reintroduction and listing of Grizzly Bears as a "Protected Species") - it is nothing but another "revenue stream" for them! I could go on, but won't! As you can tell, I have a "Very Low Opinion" of their Agency and Management Stragities! 🤡's!!! That is why I want to run for Governor and "Clean House" - starting with the firing of 85% of those Government "workers" that have already been deemed "Non-essential Employees" - because they are! 🐔🔪

[@RonSpomerOutdoors-Podcast]

@@ronlowney4700 Boy, you're sure right about the domestic sheep introducing diseases into wild bighorns. That has been a major destructive agent for decades, literally wiping out wild sheep in many areas.

[@ronlowney4700]

🤠 If you want to get a Real Trophy Mule Deer and you can't draw that Colorado tag (either the 4 corners area or West of Denver), Hunt up high 10,000+ near Yellowstone Park in Montana and Wyoming or the River of No Return in Idaho - or above one of the 3 forks of the Salmon River - (I've got a picture of a 46" Wide Mule deer taken along the Montana/Idaho boarder and used to have a picture of a 10×13 bull elk taken in the same area - both had baseball bat drop tines too)! Hunt the south facing slopes, because the snow is softer so they can paw down and get to the grasses! They like to perch themselves above the terrace cliffs, up with the mountain goats, so that they can see the whole valley and bed in a place they can warm themselves in the sun on a cold winter's day! I am finding most the large drops in the shale rock at the base of those cliffs after the season is over, because they can hear the wolves comming and can get their butt to the wall and paw down to defend themselves (it keeps the wolves from flanking them, as I have personally witnessed)! Otherwise, book a hunt in the Sonoran Desert or British Columbia with Atchesons! Jack had a picture of a father son duo that both took 40" mule deer, just south of my home town and also one of the areas where I like to hunt! I was trying to duplicate the feat as both my dad and two of my uncles took 36" to 40" mule deer down their! Jack tells story of the day he got greedy and tried to take one of those record mule deer and a record class elk at the same time in that area - he got neither! 😢 The biggest bodied mule deer that I ever heard of was taken down their and I believe it was one of the big 40"+ mule deer that I was after - I heard it field dressed at 475 lbs by one of the local guides - luckily I took the smaller 180" class buck that same year that was hanging with him and it field dressed at about 340 lbs (but the other deer towered over mine)! My dad cost me both that 40" deer and another that I swear to my grave that another might have went 50" wide! 😭 I'll never see one like that again, but I did see a photo of one - it used to be posted on MonsterMulies.com - that reportedly went 54" wide - shot in Idaho (And guess where too? Yep! 😁)! 🤯 Now I am rambling on, but it is my favorite hunting subject! 🤭

[@ronladuke7235]

I live in southern British Columbia near the edge of town and have Mule deer on my property every day. Used to see white tails quite often but since they built a subdivision above my property I don’t see them much anymore. The white tails are a little more nervous of people. The mule deer walk around my house and chew up my landscaping! One old female usually drops 2 fawns every year. I often walk by them within 10 feet and as long as as I don’t walk directly at them they just watch me walk by. I see some nice bucks but it seams after about 3or4 years old I don’t see them anymore?

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Pretty common situation with mule deer bucks. Mountain lions seem to prefer old bucks. Could be they are more vulnerable because they are older, less alert; loners so fewer eyes and ears to detect predators, weaker after the rut, etc. Bucks also tend to winter higher where cougars prowl until time to drop down and kill dinner.

[@1fast10r]

I do good with mule deer 🦌

[@mollybug9325]

I am sorry, I am from Grand Junction and hunt the public lands north of here and south in the Uncompahgre national Forest. Mules are the easiest deer to hunt. We prefer elk, and do not like Venison, but we always see the young deer and big bucks. This year was the first hunt with my wife, these mules were all around are camp, while in the wild they walked 50 ft from us, My middle son had a huge buck challenge him in the trees, and he needed to yelled at it to get it to pick up its antlers and stop the challenge. I am sorry, we could use a spear to take these if we wanted. Time and Time again, I can tell you of how close we get to these mules. Good story though for someone who doesn't know any better.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors-Podcast]

Molly, you may be one of the most fortunate mule deer hunters in the world. Most hunters in most states do not find fully mature mule deer bucks easily. They are uncommonly uncommon. We struggle to win a lottery tag to hunt units with reasonable potential to harbor a mature mule deer buck. You however, may have inspired hundreds of others to move in on your hunting grounds north of Grand Junction! See you soon!

[@user-jn9km6qd7g]

I can't believe Ron spent $40 at Walmart for that 300 round box of .22 L.R.

[@rogeralaniz2205]

They say that nilgai has a tuff skin and thick muzzle and hard to kill need a mag gun such as a .300wm or bigger my question is can I take it down with a 30.06

[@rogeralaniz2205]

Nilgai are roaming freely on the open range especially in the Eastern part of South texas brought to the king rach back in the 1920's from asia

[@ancientrenegade9243]

Set up a trough and drop em while they are feeding. No need to over complicate matters.

[@andreww1225]

hey ron, do you know any private ranches that help disabled hunters in the northwest?

[@headcarter4656]

Have you ever hunted whitetails in south ga?

[@Sanquinar]

Hey Ron, I was wondering what your thoughts were on using heavy for caliber, fragmenting bullets for hunting? it seems like these styles of bullet maximize the amount of tissue damage you get while also giving adequate penetration. with bullets like these, it seems as though a smaller, lighter recoiling cartridge can have better terminal performance than a larger caliber shooting monos or bonded bullets. A popular combination is a .223 shooting 77 grain Tipped Match King, and having seen the results on moose and elk, it seems convincing.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors-Podcast]

There are arguments and evidence on bothy sides, Andrew, same as the old arguments about big, slow, heavy bullets versus smaller, light, hyper-velocity bullets and resulting "hydrostatic shock." Both can and do work, but there is never scientific proof as to which is better. I've had dramatic kills with 55- to 75-grain "varmint bullets" from various 22 and 24 centerfires because the bullet get inside, then explodes in or near heart/lungs. But a bad shot results in flesh wound. I've had monometals and controlled expansion bullets zip through, the animal running upwards of 100 yards before expiring, but always laying down a good blood trail because of two holes. I don't think there's a lot to be gained from heavy for caliber bullets in a 223, for example, but if they're working for you, go for it.

[@Sanquinar]

@@RonSpomerOutdoors-Podcast while the study wasn't with game animals, I think the FBIs work on terminal ballistics is fairly analogous to deer and elk, but I'd want a little deeper penetration than 12 inches. The heavier .223 loads tend to penetrate better and retain their velocity downrange because of their better BCs. If you ever get a chance to try out a TMK on game, I'd love to hear about it. More data and experience is always a good thing.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors-Podcast]

@@Sanquinar I rarely hunt with Sierra Tipped Game Kings, but did use a 175-gr. in 6.8 Western to take a big old whitetail through both shoulders at 777 yards. Buck collapsed, but quickly rose and stumbled forward for a few seconds before going down again and expiring. Despite the distance the cup-core TGK broke into several piece, the largest of which just exited, leaving part of the jacket in the exit wound. I expect additional break up at closer ranges and higher impact velocities. This can result in quick, dramatic kills due to more tissue destruction over a wider area than that contacted with an expanded bullet that stays in one piece. Many, of not most, of my fastest kills were with frangible bullets, but some of those have also erupted on major muscle and failed to reach the vitals. I've learned to reserve them for precise, behind shoulder shots.

[@Sanquinar]

@@RonSpomerOutdoors-Podcast Glad to hear the TGK worked out for you! I agree that shot placement is key, and doing your research with bullet selection is important. The ones I see most frequently recommended/most evidence for their effectiveness in that style are the heavier ELD-M/Xs, the TMKs, and some of the Bergers. Can you share which bullets erupted and failed to reach the vitals? Thank you!

[@RonSpomerOutdoors-Podcast]

@@Sanquinar The "erupters" are generally cup/core bullets. Rem Core-Lokt and an old Herter's bullet on rumps of escaping sheep and whitetails. A Federal soft-point in 223 Rem on porcupine. On the other hand, I've has 58-gr. varmint bullets in 243 Win. punch right through the shoulder of whitetail and reach the heart lungs. Once saw a 55-gr. Ballistic Tip penetrate to neck vertebrae of zebra and flat out flatten it. Nothing is absolute. A 165-gr. Ballistic Tip from 30-06 once stopped in first lung of a ram.

[@davidhenson5876]

Try killing a B&C caliber whitetail on public land 😩

[@hadleyscott1160]

The most difficult animal to hunt? It’s the one you’re going after.

[@DaveL9170]

The most difficult game to hunt: a 22 year old with perfect hair and weighs about 125 and is 5’6”. She also needs to be able to hold a reasonable conversation and graduated from Ole Miss!!!

[@jk-kr8jt]

You're using the wrong bait.

[@JH-wk9gw]

Ah yes I think I've heard about this. Human targets. I prefer lasertag.

[@ifabfootballcouncil4516]

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