Knockdown Power Myth?

[@deanc2322]

I love how you destroy millions of dollars worth of marketing in 13 minutes

[@SoulDragonWithFlow]

The power of SCIENCE!!!

[@williamkowalchik572]

Like fishing lures, dog food, ECT. There sell it to you.

[@raleighthomas3079]

All just experience, and common sense. Good stuff. The hype can get overwhelming after a while. A correct-for-game constructed bullet through the vitals is lethal within a wide range of bullet diameters and speeds. Use enough gun, but big cannons don’t necessarily kill any quicker. I love your take on most things. And a common-spoken gentleman in the art of discussion. I subscribed a while back. Keep up the great work!

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

@@raleighthomas3079 Thanks for your support, Raleigh

[@sog4646]

@@raleighthomas3079 i shoot all my deer with my reloaded homing pigeon bullets. It causes them to run toward the truck after i shoot them. 😁

[@keiththomas3141]

I'm a Bowhunter and an arrow in flight with a broadhead supposedly has no knockdown power. Yet, it's incredibly lethal. This is a very good video.

[@FantomWireBrian]

Interesting comment . My dad was getting into bow back in the sixties and the guys would argue over pounds required for deer and moose. One group said heaviest brod head and highest pounds . That group used 60-70 lbs and a pass through shot. They even used fiberglass shafts. The other group didn't go much past 50 lbs and wood shaft's and double edge brod heads. Recurves only back then . I tended to believe in the 50 lb guys and so did dad. The reason is effort to pull and the head staying in and the arrow breaking up. My first buck didn't go far with a 45 lb with a hollow aluminum that snapped when the deer hit a tree. I did have a 5 blade rotating ""Razzor back ". The deer only went 70 yards .I also watched a video with an archer with a 70 compound and" Rage" hit a doe at 30 yards and it went right through . Perfect shot but the doe went over a mile. The shooter was Ted Nugent. Not much for him but he is a good hunter. He was puzzled why it made it that far. 😎

[@sumoneelse6881]

It is about shot placement. I have had deer fall within feet of where they were shot and 50 yards. Both bread basket shots, few inches forward or rearward of each other hitting vitals in different spots.

[@jackdundon2261]

I've heard that some of the modern bows getting Ford Abby per second give you 100 ft lb of energy 100 lb of Knocked Down a narrow doesn't get it the salad even buy knockdown power or hydrostatic shock it gets it by making a wound Channel and then bleeds to death a deer on the other hand saw the high-powered hunting Drive hydrostatic shock will go through the blood vessels and blow up the brain in the heart of Ron gets into that in the video but that is the mass difference

[@blueduck9409]

A broadhead in the hands of somebody that knows where to put it, and it becomes a surgical lazer beam.

[@tomcurran8470]

Yes, some think it is less cruel to shoot game with a firearm than with an arrow, not realizing that unless the bullet hits the CNS the game will still run for a bit before succumbing.

[@ericcraver4908]

With so many firearms channels leaning towards entertainment only, I love your channel for providing so much educational information.

[@ozziejim8472]

I’m 50, rifle hunter since I was 12, and living in Australia means I can hunt all year round. I agree that ‘knockdown power’ is bullshit. Great work Ron.

[@DaveL9170]

Shoot a person in the chest with a 12 gauge 3 inch magnum 00 and then shoot a person standing next to them with a .22 Short. Trust me, they’ll FEEL the knockdown power difference!!!! It definitely does exist. Lol.

[@FinalLugiaGuardian]

@@DaveL9170 It exists, it's just not as big of a difference between calibers as some people would like to think. Case in point, you can pretty much get the same effect on game with a 30.06 Springfield as you can get with a .300 Win Mag. Now the difference between a 22 long rifle and a 12-gauge 3in magnum hunting slug, that is actually a question of knock down power being a factor.

[@heathsalter8549]

I'm sorry you live in Australia

[@2017Toy]

@@DaveL9170 that's a dumb analogy common Sense will tell you 00 will do more damage than a 22 caliber if you shoot that person in the leg with 00 he might lose his leg but unless he bleeds out he's probably going to live it's all about shot placement

[@adultdiapergangsterdiscipl8386]

That buck shot is certainly more lethal butis not anywhere close to knocking anyone down. Learn basic high school physics bro.

[@joesebia6138]

We are listening to the next Jack O'Connor here. Finally a voice of reason in the wilderness. Thanks Ron. Subbed and thumbs up.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Thanks for the sub, Joe, and for the fine compliment.

[@spacecat7247]

Hear hear

[@warrenlathrop6296]

@@spacecat7247 Yes some really big shoes to fill there but Ron is the right fit.

[@theeasternfront6436]

44 mag rifle for me. Definitely knocks em down!

[@theeasternfront6436]

@Jason Bored Hook line and sinker.

[@Rydeman2]

This concept also holds true in personal protection and home defense. People can get very upset when you tell them their favorite handgun and caliber isn’t as good as they think. A lot of people think the target explodes into a cloud of dust and glitter and is never seen again. The reality is to hit vitals. Thanks for the great video and information.

[@failure2flinch876]

Ron you are Absolutely Correct! Physics is on your side. “follow the science”

[@DickCheneyXX]

This completely ignores the effect of hydro-static shock.

[@terrymattson3587]

Ha! I’m a 25-06 fan and my big gun is my 270 weatherby mag. I had this old timer ask what I shoot and with my response, he mockingly said; Jack O Conner was full of crape. Lol! I didn’t argue with him, I just laughed and said; I’m not a fan of heavy recoil. He started his argument with no avail. It’s bullet performance and placement. Choose the right bullet for the task at hand. Thanks Ron.

[@jongutierrez9116]

Discovered "knocked down power" was a myth when I was 12 y old. 100% agree that "Proper Shot Placement" is what hunters need to work on. Study your game's anatomy and where the shot needs to be placed. You will have more caliber options to choose from as well.

[@ASIMPSON54]

I think it isn't that knockdown power is a myth, it's over played and over emphasized. There's a reason law enforcement uses hollow points in their weapons..knockdown power is essentially stopping power. I'm not an expert but have watched hundreds of videos, shot many deer and seen many others hit. There is no doubt in my mind temporary wound cavities are essentially the producers of knockdown or stopping power and the permanent wound cavity is the killer.

[@ronws2007]

@@ASIMPSON54 I would venture to say that the size of the wound and the ex-sanguination is the key element, here. Not the weight or speed of the bullet. More importantly, how well does the bullet deform on impact to create a larger area of destruction.

[@ronws2007]

There is another good video from another outfitter who actually clears up the target zone on a whitetail. Quit worrying about the shoulder. Imagine a vertical line through the leg. And a centered horizontal line through the body. The cross marks the spot. Work on accuracy to be with in an inch of that at whatever range you are good at.

[@ASIMPSON54]

@@ronws2007 Most of my life I hunted with soft core bullets, hate them now. Better quality bullets, hollow points and soft core bullets not designed to shatter have been introduced and popularized into the market. Expansion of the bullet absolutely is the goal. I think most of us agree shot placement is king.

[@ronws2007]

@@ASIMPSON54 And that is more of a case of bullet design. How well does the bullet spread yet maintain integrity. Once it is inside doing damage, there is nothing else to be done. So, the reason for different bullet weights and lengths is, I think, for flight performance. For example, some military snipers prefer .300 Win Mag because it handles the wind better than a 308 . Up to 500 yards, you can hold left or right edge of target and make a center of mass hit. That is for going the distance. But at close range, the .223 or 5.56 is doing a lot of damage going into enemies. As my LTC instructor said, let me lay out a .380, a 10 mm, and a .45 ACP. Which one do you want me to shoot you with?

[@johnkaraphillis754]

Thanks Ron. Couldn’t agree with you more! Took me more than a few years to realize big calibers usually don’t make up for shot misplacement.

[@philstocks7859]

Thank you so much for calling it as it is. Shot placement is the number one factor in a successful harvest!!!

[@ronws2007]

Totally on point. And it was another Ron Spomer Outdoors video that highlighted this nugget of wisdom. You were hunting an elk with the Mossberg Patriot in 7 mm Rem Mag. A big old bull on a hill top. First round did not drop him. He started trotting. Second round ticked him off and he was running. Third round finally made it. Plenty would have chosen that round because of "stopping" power. That's not a good reason. What is more important is the actual flight characteristics. Because all you need to do is hit both heart and lungs and that is a matter of shot placement, not the weight of the bullet. I have read books by retired Rangers who were snipers and, on average, they preferred the .300 Win Mag not specifically because you can shoot grain weights over 200. It's because of the wind correction. A .308 equally capable of damage is also more susceptible to wind change. The .300 WM at 500 yards or less, you simply hold windage at left or right edge of target and only dial your elevation for distance based on DOPE, especially if you have been to that location before and you get a round into target. With enemy soldiers, it is not a big concern if that other soldier got gut shot, or not. Hunting deer is different. We don't want to have them gut shot because we are wanting them to not suffer any more than necessary and we are preserving the meat. So, I can imagine using a 7 mm Rem Mag because you like the performance of the round for its accuracy in certain conditions. Another youtuber, Rob Arrington at deermeatfordinner, went hunting with the Cree in Canada. He brought down, at some large distance, by the way, a moose in velvet. His tool was his Howa 1500 in 6.5 Creedmoor, shooting Hornady 6.5 C 143 gr ELD-X. It's not just good for punching holes in paper, it can bring down large north american game. With his gun and his accuracy, this is pinpoint. The only thing he does to his rifles is the Goda Grip cheek riser pad and the 6 round ammo carrier. One shot, by the way. The bull did make it a little ways but not a lot. He was in a big field of canola. So, it was not a .30-06. Or a .300 WM. One of my bosses got an Aoudad Sheep while hunting with his .300 Win Mag. He fired once as the beast was quartering to, at about 250 yards (my boss has had sharpshooter training.) The beast turned and started charging him and my boss racked another round. As he got the bolt closed and re-acquired sight picture, the ram dropped. That ram ran 30 yards on his last heart beat. Amazing. And he could have done it with a .308 or a .25-06, for that matter. But this is a ranch in southwest part of the state, which is kind of desert-like with constant wind and the .300 Win Mag holds well in the wind. More important than the bullet size or the foot-pounds of energy is the staying on path in changing wind currents. I would say, past a certain size, you get more spread on soft tip. For example, my state simply requires center fire for deer hunting. So, conceivably, you could hunt with a .223 Rem. However, on some whitetail drawn hunts (lottery system,) the rules state no smaller than a .243 W and this is totally because the slightly larger bullet can spread a little more and it is not really a velocity or flight profile thing. Recoil is another thing. Pick a rifle with recoil that you can handle. I prefer .308 Win for deer hunting. Places I can hunt are at less than 100 yards. You could just about throw a spear and do the same thing. I can handle the recoil, I am used to it and I am not ashamed to use slip-on recoil pads, especially for a day at the range where I may go through 40 rounds or more. And I have threaded barrels on all but one rifle. So, muzzle brakes work well. As for noise, when I hunt, there is no one right next to me to say, "dang, that is loud." At the range, I am surrounded on both sides with guys with brakes. I wear ear plugs and cans. I even wear ear plugs mowing the lawn. Many people are drawn to 6.5 Creedmoor and smaller because the recoil is less and that is important. Less recoil means you are likely to not flinch. Others like .243 and some like the .270. I think they like it for the same reason as the .30-06, you can so many things with projectiles and powder, it is more of laboratory. One of the best performing bullets for effective round with limited recoil is the 6.5 PRC. Anyway, get a rifle that you can comfortably practice shooting so that your accuracy is spot on. Zero the rifle with ammo that rifle likes. It is different for each person. If you are shooting with a second focal plane scope that has a BDC type of reticle, true your scope to your round. The markings on the Vortex 3-9/40 mm Crossfire II are 1.5 MOA, 4.5 MOA, 7.5 MOA, and 11 MOA at the top of the stove pipe. Nominally, going down, those are 200, 300, 400, and 500 yards. Use a ballistics calculator to generate a drop chart based on your cartridge. Print up the reticle view from your reticle manual, or even just write down a DOPE. Find out what you distance is at 1.5 MOA. Now, your first hash mark down is whatever that is. Find the distance at wherever you something close to 4.5 and so on. I never thought of that until someone pointed it out to me. What I did, which is also good, is I spent 12 dollars on my phone bill and got the Strelok Pro app, which will also do that for you. However, I think it can be more accurate to dial elevation. Whichever floats your boat. Get really comfortable with your rifle. Plan on different scenarios of how you will encounter a deer on a hunt. Be prepared to not shoot if you cannot get a good line up.

[@marcof.3056]

That’s what every hunter in Germany learns when they take their course for the hunting license. We always try to get a pass through shot, so that we get a good blood trail to track down the animal with a dog in case it gets lost. It’s even mandatory to at least start a serious attempt to track down a wounded animal, so you can minimize it’s suffering as much as possible. Not doing so is considered a criminal offense and you will loose your license.

[@schollierscharles6289]

Same in belgium

[@danielmaine45]

In the U.S. of you don't seriously try and track your animal you are pretty much outcast by most hunters....I had to help a buddy try and track one once....spent about eight hours following a blood trail over a couple miles.... finding innerads on the ground, grass and fences for nearly two miles...he felt terrible about it of course.....and yes, if you seem to not care about tracking your animal a game Warden can cite you as well....I think hunters world wide generally agree, a clean quick kill is best for everyone involved.

[@chevyon37s]

In the Us most game law is state by state, but where I am (Missouri) it’s illegal to leave or abandon any part of an animal that is common human food. Also you must make some sort of effort to recover wounded game.

[@marcof.3056]

Good to hear it’s about the same all around the world. I don’t know much about hunting in other countries, but when I watch Videos they are mostly from the US and the topic rarely gets mentioned. Always seemed a bit strange to me. Maybe that’s an interesting topic for the guys from Vortex.

[@wheelguns4wheelmen802]

@@chevyon37s I believe here in Idaho you also have to make a good faith effort to track the animal. Don't know what exactly you'd get cited for; maybe misdemeanor "wasting of a game animal"?

[@kurtreinhardt6789]

Totally agree with you Ron- as you stated central nervous system shots do drop in their tracks but a .243 will do the same as.338 on nervous system- shot placement and confidence in the firearm you use are vastly superior in importance- great video

[@gsitzkowitz]

It’s a matter of “terminology”. I hunt with a Dr. who explained to me that hydrostatic/hydraulic shock, which is creating by velocity, can cause an animal to stroke out where it stands if it it strikes near a major blood vessel, artery or close to the CNS. This is why the high behind the shoulder shots from the broadside usually results in DRT. For the record in my 35 years of deer hunting this has happened more often with the 25-06 or the 7 mag than any other round I’ve used. Speed can, can in some instances make up for human error. I may be the only one to admit it but my sub MOA bench group tends to open up a bit in the field.

[@InternationalAcres]

I must agree with you. And with Ron. Although I have never heard of knock down power as he describes it. I think shot placement is the most important. However the whitetail I shot last year I missed heart/lungs by a small margin but deer never moved (30-30win). energy transfer/hydrostatic shock is what killed that one. I recovered the bullet in the carcass.

[@jk-kr8jt]

Velocity sure does help. Shot placement + velocity= a very very short recovery trail. The reason a shotgun slug kills a deer but only drops them if I spine them.

[@flashgordon99999]

Been saying this for 40 yrs. Nice to hear someone else saying it too. Thanks.

[@Chalz108]

Just practice good marksmanship and don't worry about "knock down power"

[@kennycampbelljr5896]

That's for sure. I've seen deer dropped in it's tracks by .22LR and run like heck with a heart lung shot from 150 grain bullet from 30-06.

[@m118lr]

...agreed.

[@medros74]

Been reading your articles for years, and now enjoy your channel here. You are a great resource, and a very honorable voice in a world needing real world information.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Well, that's a find compliment. Thanks Jon. And thanks for listening.

[@ParadiseInHawaii0com]

Yes! Thank you Ron, for this message. All those years of videos, articles etc. of new and improved cartridges hasn’t dethroned the two classics cartridges, century old 30-06 and 270Win. Nothing to be ashamed of these magnificent & time proven cartridges, that will dispatch any North America. Nuf said. 🙏 & Aloha.

[@bryandale7125]

As always, Ron, your decades of experience and wisdom is invaluable, which I can attest to myself. God bless my friend. Stay safe and happy shooting. 😊

[@kevingramling5443]

To get proof watch Paul Harrels meat test. It moves about the same as your hand during recoil. You have to shoot it 10 times to get it to squch far enough to fall off the barrel. Great job Ron

[@grantnorthcott5112]

You're right on the money my friend. Bullet placement is the key. I have a friend that went out and bought an 8mm rem mag back in the 70s. He ascribed to the school of thought that knockdown power was the answer for a successful hunt. He came to me one day and asked me to check out his newish rifle because he couldn't get better than a 6" group on paper at 100 meters. I put him in the prone position and lay next to him and watched him squeeze off a round. Of course, the recoil with that rifle was so powerful that he was flinching each time he fired off a shot. I put together 50 rounds with a much lighter bullet and reduced the powder charge he had in that store bought cartridge. When we shot next, I covered his face then operated the bolt on his rifle then removed the hood and let him shoot. He didn't know that the rifle was empty and he flinched again. We kept this up for some time and when he stopped flinching, I chambered a live round and let him shoot.. No flinch and his bullet placement was perfect. We carried on this exercise. all afternoon. That new reduced round and some extra training in holding aiming and firing sure fixed his issues. Big powerful "African safari" rifles are not the answer, bullet placement is.

[@grantnorthcott5112]

@Greg's Miles what's your problem besides being an idiot??

[@paststeve1]

Great video Ron! It's always great to see Covey wanting to go find something to put on point. Shot placement is key to putting meat in the freezer and horns on the wall. Pick your caliber, know your rifle, practice often and put your bullet in the vitals.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

And, I would add, be prepared to track and blood trail. Essential hunter skills. Covey says hi. She enjoyed pointing a ruffed grouse during our walk this morning.

[@Alpha_blossom]

Even if I wasn’t a hunter, and/or shopping for a new rifle, I could watch you all day Ron. Good man, well wishes and good health to you, covey, and the family

[@tomcurran8470]

We should ALWAYS be shopping for a new rifle, LOL.

[@mtsurov]

Very good topic to discuss. Glad you brought it up. On my first hunt i was expecting a videogame performance, i shoot it, it drops, and i go collect. Didnt work out that way.

[@fjb4932]

Hollywood is Not your friend. Now go shoot a gun inside a room without double hearing protection, expecting to carry-on a normal conversation afterwards. Lesson learned ...

[@jacobrickman4181]

Great video Ron. Thanks for taking the time to bring this conversation up.

[@Flederratte]

This video already deserves a like because of the dog ;)

[@cheifbrownrabbit3986]

Hims is nice

[@danielcurtis1434]

Well yes (of course no debate), but that’s not really a “good idea”!!! I love cute pet pics but we don’t need confusion on a gun channel. Believe me the “crazy cat lady” will come calling!!!

[@BrundonC]

I’m still watching the ad and liked it because you said there’s a dog!

[@mikegerich1993]

I agree. Shot placement is very important when it comes to hunting. Also the the size and nature of the animal.

[@5Dworld]

Its good advice to aim for the lungs. If you penetrate both lung cavities (through and through) with a sufficient calibre to not let the wounds close, the air will rush in, collapsing the lungs. The deer might still move a bit, but it wont get far.

[@jakeb8856]

My high school physics teacher explained it as this: you can calculate the force, and it is impressive, but remember that in the instant the semi strikes the rabbit, the rabbit is exerting the exact same force on the truck as the truck is on the rabbit. The rabbit is obliterated and all the force is spent as energy. You need comparable mass to see “knock down power”.

[@m.whitleyacton821]

Well put, Sir.

[@paulcritchfield6958]

It be a great show if you see semi truck hit rabbit and seconds later it dust off its paws while semi sit totaled lol. Idk why but this just sparked image in my head 🤣 guess to much looney toons when a kid

[@danhayward9186]

You have restored my faith in teatcher you were indeed lucky my phisics teatcher was a dummy

[@Paul__108__]

(5:38) and (9:07)

[@patricktruchon2434]

My opinion differs only for one specific experience. Dakota whitetail at 90 yards lung shot with 300 wsm. fell right over twitching on it’s side… I wouldn’t believe it but it actually happened. I think it’s a bunch of biomechanics and terminal ballistics factors that have to line up for it to happen 🤷‍♂️

[@hrmIwonder]

I saw a video with a military guy that said there are timers and switches. If you hit the respiratory or circulatory system, it takes time and you've started a timer. If you've hit the central nervous system, that's almost instant and that's a switch.

[@bricenip]

going to weigh in on this. first off I'm a big fan and love your videos Ron! I have used different calibers for hunting moose here in Canada and before i started using the Barnes vor-tx copper ammo i agree with you there was no "knock down power". with the Barnes in my .300 win mag and i make a vital area shot they drop usually within 2-6 steps. its great and no long tracking thru brush but i think its the ammo used and shot placement that's the key. Unless you hit the spine or head there's no true "shot and drop" really. Using good expanding ammo that doesn't break apart like cheaper lead ammo usually does, will help your animals fall quicker. my moose i take with the copper Barnes ammo makes a total mess of the vitals and you can see what high quality vrs the cheaper ammo difference is. I hope everyone reading this is well and safe! Cheers from Newfoundland Canada

[@johnclark1925]

Thanks for sharing your experience. Interesting. 😎👍

[@chriscox3911]

As a firearms instructor I have preached this for years. Many doubted me along the way, but when I explain how it is not the "power" of the round but rather the combination of "power," accuracy, and bullet design that creates the "transfer of energy" that culminates in efficacy. The energy is wasted if it is not transferred to the target and that depends on bullet design, but the bullet design does not matter if it hits the wrong place.

[@phprofYT]

Agreed. I have a couple stories (and ideas) on this topic as to why this myth prevails. My suspicion is that many people equate the speed at which a hit will incapacitate an animal with 'knockdown power'. The time between a hit and the incapacitation of the animal is going to depend on several factors which all revolve around how much damage is done to vital tissues and when they are hit. Are they running? Are they resting? Other factors may influence the outcome as well. Story 1: The last buck I harvested was with a 243 loaded with Remington 95 grain soft points. Buck jump out of the swamp from behind my left shoulder. On a dead run across and open field I fired 3 times and achieve one hit ... on the first shot. The buck ran another 100 or so yards before finally collapsing. Upon inspection I found I had severed several vessels across the top of the heart but didn't penetrate the heart. Would a 270 or 30-06 have dropped him faster? I may never know. What I do know is it was a devastating hit. Perhaps being on a full run had his juices going so much that the blood loss had to catch up. Story 2: This comes from a third party. This father's son was going on about an entry level rifle chambered in 243 and how good it can be. The father chimed in later that although he doesn't have an issue with the 243 cartridge he stopped using it after losing a doe in the swamp after a solid chest shot. It was late in the day and there wasn't enough blood to trail. He has since switched to the 444 Marlin cartridge and it "drops them on the spot". My paraphrase but it is a close statement. My take on the topic. There are a lot of factors that go into making a good choice for hunting rifle. 1) The game being pursued. 2) The ranges at which you expect to being engaging game. 3) The equipment you have available and can afford. 4) Choice of ammunition. 5) Your ability to place a shot on the vital organs. Will some cartridges achieve a kill faster? Sure. However, how many of use have the cash for a 338 Win mag? Or a shiny new 444 Marlin? How many 12 year olds do you want starting out with a 30-06 as their first rifle? There is a lot more to hunting than just "which is the best".

[@Mark-uq9km]

You have touched on something we don't discuss much and that is adrenaline being pumped through a game animal at the time it takes a good clean killing hit. Not all game is milling around like it's Sunday afternoon at the park.

[@ebabdbgbbbebbluesman6115]

Great video and I agree with you. It is all about shot placement. One of myy first hunts I was ever on, I did not do proper studying of hunting pigs. When they came round my stand i got so excited, and all I could remember is my deer hunting friend to saying shoot behind the elbow. I launched a 44 mag out of a lever gun, and whatched the big boar hog drop to the ground, and with his shoulder smoking ran into the woods behind the piglets. I came back out two weeks later, the guide gave me a .308 savage with a 3-9x scope. He said aim behind the ear. The hog showed up alone and pissed off right as the sun went down. He charged at a few stags as he entered the field . I put the crosshairs behind his ear while he was down eating the corn, and watched him roll on his back with his feet kicking in the air instantly. All about shot placement

[@coastghost1649]

Already been a good day with wise words from Ron!

[@juanrivera9507]

You are spot on. Shot placements is what counts

[@zdude9549]

The closest to "knock down power" I have ever seen was shooting a buck at 7 yards with a 20 ga 3" with a 385gr bullet the buck stumbled to remain standing. It looked like when someone pushes you and you take a few staggered steps to keep from falling over.

[@TexanUSMC8089]

The lower the SD, the more energy is used on impact. The same slug may not work well on a moose or elk because it can't penetrate as well though.

[@zdude9549]

@@TexanUSMC8089 the fall off of a 385gr flat nose slug only traveling 1700 fps at the muzzle would not do every well against a moose unless at extremely close range. But everything is relative to each other, I do not believe in knock down power. In this instance the closeness of the target plus the almost 2,500 ft lb of energy did come close to knocking the deer over but even in situation with a clean broadside shot the deer still traveled 50yrd.

[@Parents_of_Twins]

I think it has a lot to do with how many times the animal has been frightened by rifle reports as to whether they run or not after being shot, unless of course you hit the brain. I had a blind set up one year and hit a deer at circa 15-20 yards with a 54 caliber muzzle loader shooting a 460-gr bullet and it absolutely flattened it. I've shot others with the same load and bullet combo and had them run.

[@firstjohn3123]

You point is spot on. My dad has used the old .303 British most of his life. Deer never takes 1 step. Just drops. Then again, he's mastered the neck shot! Shot placement over bullet/caliber...

[@MrSmiths]

Once again Ron, excellent. My experiences match your comment that it feels like most of that K.E. is transfered into my shoulder. Hahaha! Another great illustrative example is when we shoot a paper target. Very little kinetic energy is transfered to the paper because it passes through so easily. I personally suspect that bullet impact speed and design are much more important concerning tissue damage and lethality. Which explains the lethality of that 220 swift you mentioned in a couple videos.

[@tauetshweuthewhitelion5664]

Hi Ron love your clips , as a guneery instructor for over 30 years now I agree with you 100%. I always teach my students .... the quicker they leak the quicker they die , that is why for self defense you always shoot twice , two holes leaks quicker than one

[@maxwellmorey6178]

I’m glad to see that you use Hammer bullets. I love those bullets in my 35 Remington model 8 and my 35 whelen AI.

[@z987k]

I caught that to, though he didn't mention them, they were sitting there.

[@markstillwagon4601]

I have a 35 Whalen and it has fair knockdown power, at least on deer.

[@Doofus5152]

So very well said, sir! Thank-you, Ron! Big hugs to Cubby!

[@garrettforchrist2700]

I love your logic, Ron! Thank You

[@russellkeeling4387]

I remember watching a segment of Myth Busters about this subject. They were relating it to how movies portray humans being shot. In the segment they hung a side of pork on a hanger that would allow the projectile to force the pork to be moved and fall from its hanger. They used shot gun slugs and shot the pork many times and the slug just passed through without moving it. Finally they had to connect the side of pork so it was barely hanging on before the slug would move it enough to knock it down.

[@kirkmartin2223]

It's funny that you mentioned the ol' 30-30....out of all my deer rifles I've shot deer with, that is the only cartridge that has dropped deer in their tracks 75% of the time. That 170gr corlok in the boiler room is the ticket at 75-125yds. Shot placement is #1...bullet selection is #2. I've tracked a few deer shot with 300wm and 28nosler, both flinging "match bullets" twice as fast as the 30-30. Speed and energy mean diddly if you are shooting the wrong bullet for the application. Just my 2 cents

[@permanenceaesthetic6545]

I use the 150gr Core-Lokt myself and have always had success with it. I have an almost irrational love for the 30-30. In my opinion, it’s definitely hard to argue against the merits of the ‘ole Appalachian Assault Rifle!

[@blythkd9017]

Yeah I took a bit of offense to the disrespect for the .30-30 as well. A few years ago I was sighting in some rifles and I set up a wooden backstop to staple targets to. It was all 2x4's stacked up and nailed/screwed together. It was 8.5' thick. A 170 grain out of the .30-30 at 100 yards nearly destroyed my backstop on the first shot. It blew a hole out the back side of that stack of boards that you could have literally stuck your head in. I had no qualms at all about taking a poke at an elk with it out to 100 yards. Anything past that I would have picked up my 300 magnum. I was telling my story to some guys at work and one older gentleman told a story about when he used to go elk hunting in Arizona. He brought a .30-30 into elk camp and all the other guys with their big magnums gave him all kinds of sh*t for it. He said he was the only one in camp that year that bagged an elk. And this guy wasn't the kind of guy to spin a yarn.

[@northwestwildandfree1505]

You are so correct on the knock down power subject. When you posted the video called (How Winchester Model 86 Overpowers M73 44-40) and you were shooting that maple firewood and how it just barely even made it wiggle is a good example about knock down power, there isnt any. Enjoyed the video for sure. Personally i like speed but i hate lots of recoil. 6-284 is one of my favorites.

[@jonathanmitchell3733]

Probably the best video EVER!!!! I've always argued with so many people. Bullets don't knock animals over. In frontal shots I've seen a lot springbuck seem to flip over backwards, but you have to understand the animal is reacting as if it is being bitten in the chest, jumping away from the danger, and then stumbling in the reaction due to the internal damage. They often, on a broad side shot, swing their heads/horns at the spot they been hit, or kick towards the wound, as if warding off a predator. we must remember they cant make the connection between you being far off and still being able to kill them. All reactions are only to immediate happenings.

[@johnkrug5656]

A bullet can’t push on the target any harder than the rifle pushes on your shoulder. . . .

[@kevingriffith4036]

Many years ago I read an article on this subject. They made a trolley with an overhead rack suspending a block of wood. Even though the block was hanging on wheels, it never moved down the track regardless of what they shot it with.

[@johnfitzgerald6510]

Right on Ron. Over 60 yrs of hunting experience by me would prove you to be right.

[@homerson1080]

I agree! Shot placement is always key!

[@glennearl5621]

"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction" - Newton. If it isn't knocking you off of your feet, it isn't going to knock an animal off of its feet. Instantly killing an animal is different than knocking it over. How am I gonna prove it? I don't have to. Newton observed that truth a long time ago.

[@scott1152]

Not actually how it works for a bullet being 'accelerated' by progressive combustion (building up of pressure). If we use the 308 as an example. In a 7lb rifle the acceleration of the 150gr bullet produces ~20lbs of opposite force relative to the acceleration rate - it is not instantly moving at 2800fps - and the bullet does not weigh the same as the rifle. If both objects were the same weight and there was instant velocity, then there would be equal force in both directions. If in Newton's observations, a bullet were to expend all of its energy 'on' not 'into' the animal (no penetration, retain 100% mass, and not deflect) it would indeed knock over the animal.. however penetration into any medium of greater mass, of any depth, begins decelerating the moving object and dissipating its energy (Ron's sandbag analogy).

[@donaldslayton2769]

Another must watch video, thanks Ron!

[@jeffboutilier5075]

I agree. Personally, I've taken several dozen whitetail and black bear over 35 years of hunting. I used several different cartridges mainly. 300 win, 30-30,.243, and. 308. In my experience they all run off when hit, unless like you said they are hit in the central nervous system (or shoulder). I judge a cartridges performance on the condition of the lungs when I clean the animal, my personal favorite is the. 243. My least favorite (although it definitely gets the job done) is the.308 win.

[@tonywoconish6695]

🗣Hi Jeff, May I ask Sir, why your least favorite is the .308 Win.? Just curious. Unlike you, I have yet to take a deer with my .243 CAL. (Maybe this season coming up soon). Yet, I have taken 2 deer and 1 hog with my .308 Win. Thank you Sir, Tony USMC

[@AF-mv8hq]

Have you used the .270?, many people say the .270 has a better ability to drop a deer in it's tracks better than most cartridges

[@jeffboutilier5075]

@@tonywoconish6695 I really like the 308. But for me I don't find it causes as much damage to the soft tissue like lungs as compared to the 243. Just my comparison. I probably carry the 308 more often than the rest honestly.

[@jeffboutilier5075]

@@AF-mv8hq no I have never used the 270. I do know lots of guys that love it though

[@chevyon37s]

For whitetails I’ve only ever had one run after being shot with a rifle, and that was a poorly placed shot. All the rest have dropped on the spot. Shot them with .243, .280Rem, and 30-06. Just my experience, of which I think distance, bullet selection, and shot placement have great affect on if and how far they run. But I think larger than whitetails aren’t stopped as easy and they’re much more likely to run.

[@guardianminifarm8005]

Good perspective. Well said. Thank you.

[@ID_Berninator]

Where does hydrostatic shock come in to play in this discussion?

[@7mm-08]

Thanks

[@knobjob2839]

Shot placement reigns supreme. I feel like some cartridges will let you get away with less than perfect shot placement. The flatter shooting guns make for less guess work on the shooter, but it's still down to shot placement. A .22 to the head will do way more damage than a grazing 50 BMG to the leg.

[@ricflair2779]

No it won’t. The leg would be gone vs a tiny little hole in the head. But the head shot would kill you. Damage is the wrong word.

[@knobjob2839]

No it isn't. Damage is correct.

[@roninkraut6873]

The head shot may or may not kill you. People have survived head shots from a .22 and shot placement doesn’t reign supreme its part of the equation of shooting

[@bryandale7125]

Whether you shoot for hunting, self-defense, or to knock down steel plates at a shooting range, this video helps dispel an old myth that needs to die to really understand terminal ballistics.

[@davidking6663]

I think this was discovered when Roy Weatherby noted that the hydrostatic shock of the higher velocity projectile kills quicker. Now I’m not a physicist I’m just a telephone man but it makes sense. I think any quality bullet moving at these higher velocities and placed in the right spot will ethically harvest the animal.

[@highplainnsdrifter3050]

I've come across the same thing concerning Weatherby. I tend to be persuaded.

[@ASIMPSON54]

The hydrostatic shock you're referencing is essentially the 'temporary wound cavity', correct? In tests power transfered into the animal certainly could create shock which would give a properly placed shot time to take effect. I think Ron is over emphasizing a good legitimate point. Be a good, humane hunter first. I fully agree with his premise even if I don't fully agree with him.

[@highplainnsdrifter3050]

@@ASIMPSON54 It would be something like like Joe Weatherby described of the bullet sending tissue disintegrating shock waves through the hit tissues. Of course, shot placement is essential, i.e., the heart area.

[@gsp2west]

Nice seeing the Hammer bullets on your desk. Great product !!!!

[@martinschulz9381]

I heard more or less the same thing from hunting guides when I worked in Alaska. They get clients with these high high velocity calibers combined with their own hot hand loads and they can't down the big game with them. A bear guide up there told me that the common gun that the guides bring to stop an attacking grizzly is a 444 lever action Marlin. Very reliable fast action, and incredible stopping power. ( Always open iron sights.)

[@janetsutherland5528]

444 marlin fires a 240gr bullet I wouldn't trust it to down a charging grizzly. I think you mean a 4570 with a 300gr or 500gr bullet

[@martinschulz9381]

@@janetsutherland5528 I'm pretty sure it was a 444, but I could be wrong. What ever the caliber. they were lever actions

[@jeffmorrow1957]

Thanks Ron

[@doghousedon1]

In all the decades I've hunted the only time I've seen knockdown power is when I smack a ground squirrel with my 30-06. Thanks for the vid.

[@holsteinsanddiesels7758]

Smacked one with a buddy’s 30-378 Weatherby once. Couldn’t even find any pieces big enough to identify it. Now that was fun

[@rudysroots2789]

@@219garry they are a nuisance in some area’s.

[@20cameron1]

@@rudysroots2789 Then shoot them with the right weapon and load to save the meat for the frying pan.

[@samuelwestknee7134]

I would pick minimum 300 winmag for squirrels... or else they might run in the woods after vital shots

[@20cameron1]

@@samuelwestknee7134 lol. one shot with no.4 birdshot will do the job. Then do the tail skinning method, gut, cut up, boil, and throw in the pan. Only seasonings is salt, pepper, paprika, and some oil.

[@josephd7616]

Goats... Billy Goats... I used a .223 for years, using 55g and 60g projectiles of all types with mixed success. I moved to a 7mm08 using a 120 g V max. I will never look back...They have never failed me ... BUT... Yes I agree with everything you have said, 100% !!! I now beleive that it was me improving my shooting that really made the difference not the change in calibre. Shot placement and knowing the limits of the cartridge/projectile i'm using, I found is the key to success. Great video.... I always enjoy your presentations. 👍

[@maxswain69]

I tested this very thing with coyotes. I was surprised to see no difference in a variety of calibers. The only thing that showed " knock down" was powerful 12g loads.

[@stevemcleod4608]

I was thinking about the shotgun slug as an exception as well! Even poorly placed shot with a slug seems to take down deer quickly.

[@bwfreel]

I’ve observed a few coyotes shot at moderate range (underb100yards)with high velocity rounds 22-250/220swift. They seemed to be literally lifted of the ground upon impact. May have been an illusion caused by the animals reaction?? One was on film, interesting topic

[@ApeShift]

In my experience, velocity has far more to do with it than the physical size of the projectile. Hit a cotton tail in the wrong spot with a 22lr, and it'll flop and scream until you put it out of its misery. Hit a cotton tail almost anywhere with a 22wmr, and it's usually dead before it skids to a stop. There's diminishing returns as the mass of the animal increases, but even in that scenario, the higher velocity cartridges seem to be more effective in my experience

[@gregwickersham2638]

Great video!!!! I hate that term "knock down power" or "stopping power", your exactly right, its purely myth. Like how people think like the movies show where someone gets shot with a 12 gauge, and they are thrown back......wrong, for every action there's an equal but opposite reaction. If a cartridge could hit a bad guy and throw them back 5 feet, the recoil would do something similar to the person that fired the round.

[@haroldenglish943]

Wow... 40 years of hunting, shooting, reloading, police, Army infantry and never knew "Knock Down Power" was literally about physically moving a body. I always took it to mean the "uneducated" explanation of terminal ballistics. I think Mr. Spooner and many other have taken a simple thing and significantly complicated it.

[@danfishhound857]

I also thought the same thing. I hear the term "knock down power" I think of the load/bullet combination's efficiency to do internal damage. A bullet is a wedge and not in any means designed to knock down. Hunting loads are meant to pierce, and expand to create catastrophic failure.

[@MobileAura]

Can’t believe I just found him. Wow absolute unit mate.

[@linkbond08]

I've seen deer drop from a .223 and I've seen them run from a shotgun slug.

[@drizler]

I watched a huge doe go down with one shot with an M 16 and standard 55 grain ball ammo. It blew that deer right off its feed and the blood cloud was massive. That’s enough knock down power for me in a deer size animal.

[@uwehehn3371]

Thumbs up for advocating the chest shot, instead of aiming for neck or head. 👍

[@mainenorthwoodshunter3265]

Thanks, Ron, for another great video on things to ponder. I never thought knockdown power was something to kill the animal just thought it was something that would knock it to the ground and the bullet destruction of the animal was what obviously killed the animal. Sadly there is so much science in bullet construction with a bullet weight and how that particular bullet was constructed. All of this comes into play with how it reacts to certain mediums. This is another reason I do not believe in buying hyped-up super fast rounds of something. I believe every caliber has its perfect speed and weight for the bullet to stabilize in flight and to react into an animal. If you start sending that bullet too fast or even too slow, you lose accuracy and correct bullet performance into the animal. I just wish I had the information to know what ammo would be best for say a 30-06 or 270. What is the most accurate speed for these calibers in a specific bullet weight and then what is the best bullet construction for say, deer size game. I can bet the hyper-speed bullets would not be the winners. These bullets simply go too fast and do not give the bullet enough time to do what they are made to do which is to expand into the animal to create the damage to kill the animal. Obviously, now that I read this myself before I click the comment button, one specific thing also comes into contention. Distance, we all need to have a very good idea of the distances we will be shooting. Here in Maine I rarely shoot a deer past 100 yards, though I did shoot one at 456 yards one year. It is asking a lot for a bullet company to make a bullet that can react the same at close distances as well as far. We as hunters need to realize where we will be hunting and choose the ammo accordingly. Have some long-range ammo as well as some shorter-distance ammo. The bullets are made for the options. Maine North Woods Hunter youtube (Shane)

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Shane, you're on the right track here, but if you think about it, bullets cannot improve their tissue destruction by going more slowly though an animal. It is velocity that gives the projectile energy. It is mass that enhances and preserves its momentum. Bullet expansion peaks with impact energy (velocity.) Thereafter expansion/disruption declines because there is less energy to do the work. It isn't as if the bullet gets inside, slows down, off-loads a bunch of gremlins that begin sawing and hacking and flattening the bullet so it can then do more tissue damage. Sorry to sound silly, but this analogy does shine a light on it, don't you think? Another way to look at it: hammer a nail. Will it drive deeper with a fast hammer blow or slow one? But you are right. Every bullet has performance parameters related to impact velocity. The higher the impact speed, the tougher the bullet should be and vice versa. Absolutely choose your ammo based on anticipated impact velocities (shooting distances.) Thanks for weighing in!

[@flyonbyya]

Let the Stir up begin…love it !

[@TheBeaker59]

Just finished a beautiful venison steak while watching your video, shot by my friend with his 270 tasted the same as the one I shot with my 243, mine ran a tad further because I hit the heart which gives the animal a burst of adrenaline so it ran about 20Meters and dropped, the one hit with a 270 in the top of the lungs (both ) but clipped the major aorta feeding blood to the brain dropping BP immediately so the animal basically fainted never to recover. The result was the same and caliber completely irrelevant to the result shot placement is everything. We ate the heart that night in camp WOW what a treat mmmmmmmmmm

[@larryplogman7997]

Yea exactly same flavor

[@catawissa2weinhold579]

I agree completely! At 18 I bought a .450 marlin 1895 “guide gun” for “brush busting” pa deer and black bear. The first heart shot deer ran 70 yards and was shot by another hunter before it dropped. Another “flipped” over and landed with its head under a front shoulder. A third I hit 4 out of 5 shots. The last 4 were taken out to 170 yards on the run as follow ups, the first was a clean 70 yard shot. 30 mins later I blood trailed it 250 yards and it was laying head up and alert. The only broad side shot was the first so I know that connected but it was guts right behind the diagram. I later found a clipped twig about 3/8 of a inch diameter about half way along the first shot. The other 3 connecting shots were running away though each ham and a back strap into the gut. No bones or primary Circulatory systems had Major damage. All the power in the world had not knocked it over. 12 years and 20 deer later I had lost any belief in knock down power or brush busting. The last 6 years I have used 7mm-08 exclusively, 5 deer and my first black bear have been 100% single shot bang flops. The difference is that I use a 2” +/- trajectory zero, it’s good to 250 yards. I’m much more deliberate about shooting through openings in the brush. Not shooting through the brush and making openings. I have stopped heart shots. I aim to break shoulder or to disrupt the nervous system while still causing lung damage for blood loss. This means I use heaver for caliber bullet to get good sectional density/ penetration. I love less recoil -increased shot confidence- and my accuracy is much better. I’m now able to shoot 4 Moa offhand at 100 yards, so I can snap shoot (not shoot at running) much farther then the higher recoiling gun.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Thanks for this testimony, Catawissa.

[@dallasmore6703]

Damn physics! I've never seen a bullet knock an animal down, but I've seen bullets vaporize small game, and I've seen medium and big game animals drop in their tracks from brain and spine shots. I once shot an 8 Pt Whitetail twice in the neck about 4" apart with .22 LR Remington Thunderbolts (the plain old leadheads) from about 10 yards (with my trusty old Marlin Golden 39A lever action) and it dropped in its tracks stone dead. Another time I shot an 8 Pt whitetail with an old school 1 ounce Fosters Style 12 gauge slug from maybe 12-15 yds, literally tearing its heart apart and it still run flat out for more than 100 yards before dying.

[@BBQDad463]

Thank you for these insights. I agree with most of the posters: Caliber matters less than marksmanship. Shot placement is key.

[@garybaker6980]

Shot placement is marksmanship. You did not understand what Ron was getting at.

[@BBQDad463]

@@garybaker6980 I believe I understood quite well. Marksmanship is hitting the spot you want to hit. Shot placement is marksmanship applied to the right spot.

[@biggs8729]

Not proud of this, but when I was 14 years old, I once hit a buck at about 400 yards with my 36-06 in the hind quarters and knocked it right off it's feet. It didn't stumble or fall, it was KNOCKED down. Problem was it got right back up and I never saw it again. Also saw a video of a Taliban sniper hitting a Navy Corpsman in the armor chest plate. He got knocked back like he just took a punch from a heavy weight. But he got up and ran off too. Ron, your half right. If the bullet stops instantly against a hard surface, it translates all it's energy into that object and thus knocks it down or back. But with a shot on the vitals of an animal, the bullet will gradually loose it's energy and the animal will stumble or fall, but not get knocked down.

[@kevinsmith9406]

Ron, you are exactly right, a good heart shot will stop them after a couple of jumps but a brain or spine shot will drop them. They don’t get blown backward. I always try for the heart but sometimes only have another option.

[@nfreeman98]

Dang it...ruined all my fantasies and arguments to the wife for a big gun.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Oops. Sorry 'bout that.

[@smokedbrisket3033]

well, just tell her you want to go hunt dangerous game in Africa. The very minimum caliber for DG is 9.3x62, or 375 H&H magnum. They only get bigger from there

[@pnreynolds]

@@RonSpomerOutdoors Correct Ron, I have used .458 with 500gr and .375 with 300gr for 30 years on Buffalo and Hippo, they drop quickly with good placement shots, non have been 'knocked down' although both these two large animals can take a lot of metal if you get it wrong before stopping.

[@ralphgreenjr.2466]

Ron you are spot on. Shot placement means more than any caliber, .5.56 to 45-70 put it in the vitals and they go down. The Berger VLD hunting bullet is astounding for drop on the shot terminal ballistics.

[@mikecollins8241]

While I agree 95% with this line of thinking, I will say that in my experience, there is still something to be said for using big, heavy bullets, at slower velocities (ie Muzzleloaders). Maybe not knockdown power, but sure seems to hit them hard, and they don't usually go very far :)

[@adamkadir3803]

İ have always preferred heavy, slower projectiles over lighter faster ones. Though rather than 'knockdown power' its more 'sectional density' and 'reliable expansion creating a large, clean wound'.

[@fabulousoffroaddesigns5080]

@@adamkadir3803 sectional density is the relationship between the frontal area of the bullet and the weight of the bullet, which is only relevant to BC. The truer test is the (Frontal Area X energy) compared to the mass of the animal. It is the hydrostatic forces caused by the bullet that appear to kill. The larger the frontal area, the more force can be transmitted, quicker. What knock down power is, is the ability to cause enough kinetic/hydrolic transfer through the blood of nervous system to cuncuss the animal into instant unconsciousness until it bleeds out. Sometimes they wake up and get back up before they die. Wider, blunder, lower BC bullets do a better job of this. Modern high BC, high sectional density bullets have small frontal areas, and deceleration at a slower rate, causing little to no hydrostatic shock.

[@jonlee3081]

Heavier bullets penetrate better.

[@fabulousoffroaddesigns5080]

@@jonlee3081 NOT true! Between two bullets of the same speed and metallurgy, the heavier one does generally penetrate further. But in reality lighter copper bullets travel faster and because copper bullets don't lose mass on impact like lead bullets do, they retain that mass and energy ultimately penetrating much deeper. So between two 358 caliber bullets shot with 3900 ft/lbs of muzzle energy, the solid copper 225 Gr one travelling 3000 fps will drastically out penetrate a 300 Gr Bullet travelling 2100 fps. Also because hydrollic pressure increases exponentially on a curve, in comparison to speed, the lighter faster bullet is more likely to impart a hydraulic shock that knocks the wind out of an animal or ultimately knocks it unconscious instantly.

[@jonlee3081]

@@fabulousoffroaddesigns5080 I was replying to a muzzleloader who was confusing knock down power with penetration, that's all.

[@1joshjosh1]

Puppy!!!!!! 🥰🥰🥰 Oh yes...and good bullet talk. 👍👍👍👍

[@kurtgellert9166]

I think the term "knockdown power" is a misnomer. It's always been my impression and understanding that knockdown power = dropping the animal without the ability run. Hence, the larger the bullet, the more carnage it creates which increases the hemorrhaging of blood and quicker death. Great discussion/video, Ron!

[@brandongrawe3718]

Exactly! Well said Ron. Thanks for your videos

[@simplemindedfella]

Excellent play on words. I had to look up the definition and I also misunderstood knockdown as being stopping power and it's not the same. Knockdown has commonly been used in place of stopping power for longer than I've been alive but stopping power would be the correct terminology. I do not believe the industry has misled anybody by using the terminology knockdown for the way it's commonly understood and not using the proper terminology of stopping power. Again excellent play on words.

[@squirrel-eatingjon2514]

Related to this Ron, i just came across your article from 2018 - "Make Your Mountain Rifle a Bear Stopping Rifle." I appreciated this one given i am getting really tired of carrying my 9 and some pound .375 H&H around for this purpose. It feels fantastic when you pick it up and not so much within as little as 1/2 mile as you start shifting it hand-to-hand and to your shoulder and etc., let alone a few hours into the day. The reality is that the heft of the damn thing just never leaves your consciousness, and i'm in very good condition. So i finally said "enough!" and loaded for my peep-sighted Remington 760 carbine (the gun i actually LIKE carrying) some .30-06 rounds with 220 grain Hornady's in the off-chance i'll need it. The elk woods behind my hayfield hosts a staggering amount of grizzly bear activity for a mere 1/4 section of bush (the surrounding ag lands concentrate the noctural bruins in such spots, and so much for them being the "quintessential wilderness species" by the way) but it's also a very popular bedroom for elk, moose and big whitetail. So thanks for the article and your vote on this tactic.

[@ethanknight3970]

funny story time: first time I went deer hunting, youth hunt with a .44 magnum semi-auto, my dad and I see a spike out the window about 10 yards away and when I shot it, it stood there for a few seconds and then it fell over. I had shot the deer in the shoulder blade and knocking the wind out of it! As such, my first buck will forever be my family's Benny Hill Buck Story.

[@larryplogman7997]

Yea cool

[@billdont2458]

I wholeheartedly agree. Shot placement and knowing your tool are King.

[@GeorgeSemel]

Some of the biggest nonsense ever fostered on sport hunters was the writings of John Pondoro Taylor! There are two things that you need to do in order to take game, good marksmanship, placing your shot properly and a bullet that penetrates and expands well so that the game loses blood pressure and dies. All you have to do is look at how arrows kill game, shot placement, and loss of blood pressure. It's the same thing with guns. Nothing magic- If you can hit anything with a 300 Winchester Mag, then go to a 30-06 or a 7 x 57, with the good bullets we have today and even better sights it's not going to be a problem. Recoil is in shooting accurately with firearms just as draw weight is with bows. To shoot well the gun has to fit you well, none of this stuff is rocket science. Good grief most of our Bison was killed off with guns that threw soft lead bullets at around 1800 fps. Then again those Bison hunters could shoot. That is if you think that Cattle diseases like blue tongue did have a part it that tragic part of our history. Blue tongue pops up every now and again and it is hell on the game.

[@Mark-uq9km]

I agree with you about the two things needed to humanely take game. But, I do think John Taylor made reasonable arguments for his 'knock down' factor given the limited technology he had 70 years ago. Bullet and powder development has replaced the k/o formula of yesteryear, but at the time he wrote I think he made effective arguments given the tools available. He wasn't hunting little deer. He was hunting dangerous game and taking his work and hunters very seriously. He made recommendations based on his experiences, and that's what hunters were looking for at that time.

[@dc4457]

Taylor's "Knockout Value" wasn't intended to say you could shoot such and such an animal with this cartridge and have this much chance of dropping it in its tracks. It meant "If you shoot an elephant in the head with this round but miss the brain, will it stomp you or will you stun it long enough you can get close and finish it off?" This from a man who specialized in headshots and killed many, many elephants with solid bronze bullets from a 7mm Mauser.

[@mmabagain]

Great video! Years ago, while deer hunting in Colorado, I shot a rabbit around camp with a Smith & Wesson revolver in 357 mag. It did fling it back about a foot and gutted it all at the same time.

[@trevorgale1176]

Three most important factors in "knocking down" any game. 1 Shot Placement. 2 Shot Placement. 3 Shot Placement. You can kill a elephant with a .22 with any of these.

[@coondog25]

now thats bullshit

[@Dafarish1]

Good talk. Thank you

[@holsteinsanddiesels7758]

Me? I just blast stuff with a 50. It’s always blown to hell and very dead. Just kidding, I’m always carful with my shots.

[@Themaverickdetector]

This is a good lead into lead core bullets vs copper bullets and how they react differently going through things.

[@MrZeke701]

Hi Ron. Agreed. KD is a myth. My own hunting experience aligns.

[@AL41NV]

Loved the Robert C. Ruarke "Horn of the hunter" co-hosting ;)

[@dalebogard3717]

Roy Weatherby discovered years ago that real knock down can be achieved by “hydroshock”. A very fast bullet sending a shock wave that debilitates the central nervous system. Doesn’t makeup for poor bullet placement, but I’ve shot dozens of deer with lightweight bullets moving excess of 3000 FPS with unreal success!

[@hubertharmon]

I agree. My dad used a 270 with 120 grain boolit hot hand loads. This was before all the magical calibers now days. The deer dropped in their tracks. Myself I'm a 2506 guy. Same result with 100 grain bullet. Faster the better in my opinion.

[@waynethompson2614]

You are absolutely correct brother! I think what's more effective is a smaller caliber, faster bullet, with a ballistic tip. Lot more damage, they'll lose blood pressure faster.

[@hawknives]

Truth! Any head shot or central nervous system shot drops the animal, on the spot, no matter what caliber.....9 times out of 10. Christ Bless!

[@baddog9320]

Thats if it goes through the skull. Have see a few times where bullets don't go through the skull.snd just make it mad. Have yet to see something a 30-06 hasn't gone into skull. I think the last one was a 600lbs hog. I think i first hit it with a .223 at point blank. When I seen it didn't go through skull. I grabbed a 30-06 and down it went. Worse was someone using a .25 on a 300lbs hog at point blank. It cracked the skull but not one round entered the brain. That was one mad hog. To this day. I don't know why they didn't use a 30/30.

[@jeffpelphrey3953]

Love your videos. Educational, informative, and knowledge of the past, present and future in firearms.