Why Orthodox Christians Venerate The Mother of God "Theotokos" - Fr. John Valadez

[@NUNN.NUNN1]

As a Protestant very intrigued by the Orthodox Church. This video helped me to fully understand the proper view of Mother Mary. Thankyou I am very excited and a bit nervous to join the Orthodox Church. But I know God is leading me here

[@johna3322]

The blessed Mother is one of the biggest hurdles for protestants. When you understand why she is so highly venerated and that she is the first created to achieve what we all hope to do one day. She ALWAYS points us back towards her beloved Son. Keep on searching for understanding...eventually you will come to orthodoxy

[@LadderOfDescent]

Keep going my friend. ☦️

[@stefanveljkovic8891]

May He give you the light on your road to Him brother, to find the truth!

[@NUNN.NUNN1]

@@stefanveljkovic8891 I do believe that I am a Christian saved by the Blood of Jesus Christ but I long for a fuller understanding and relationship with Christ and the Church

[@MrsTh84]

I'm sorry but I don't know where in the bible it says she is without wrongs?

[@FREEMAN....]

Hail, Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

[@lavilavi1057]

Amen!❤

[@CruiseadersOfChrist]

Where’d y’all learn this from

[@FREEMAN....]

@@CruiseadersOfChrist It's based on the New Testament St Luke 1:26-28 St Luke 1:39-45 St Luke 1:8 Philippians 2:8-11 St James 5:16

[@SomePeopleCallMeWulfman]

As a former protestant I struggled quite a bit with venerating the Mother of God. My thinking now is: 1. Jesus not only fulfilled the law, but, as a human, also obeyed it. 2. The law says to honor your parents, so that's what he did. 3. If Jesus, being God, honored Mary, it's permissable for us to honor her.

[@bobicrni1284]

Why did He then call her woman, not mother? Why did He denied her as a mother when she and her brothers came looking for him? Why did he correct the woman who said "blessed is the mother who birth you and nursed you"? Don't be like catholics who forgot Jesus and his teachings.

[@tomy2988]

@@bobicrni1284 Is this part of your ministry to come to KZbin comment sections and tell that the apostles and early church had it all wrong about the Mother of God?

[@seanmurphy5854]

@@bobicrni1284To say that she Denied her as mother is pretty out there and taking things out of context from what he meant. From what we know of ancient Jews, Jesus definitely recognizes Mary as his mom and honor her as such anything less would be denying his humanity. That woman carried our savior while being hunted by a nation, she raised him and nurtured him and kept him safe until his time came. She should be honored as such. She wasn’t some woman, she was THE woman.

[@lindaphillips4646]

☦💝☦ Good answer, otto.. It is THE CHURCH that wrote the Gospels and Epistles (and Revelation.) It is THE CHURCH that canonized the New Testament. It is the CHURCH that was born on Pentecost that lives today to this moment as the Orthodox Church, which explains scripture to us. Which answers any verses lobbed at you which themselves are taken out of context. It is THE CHURCH which has not strayed from the Faith. It is the CHURCH that explains Who the Theotokos was and now is. It is the CHURCH that honors her birth as the beginning of our salvation. It is the Church that holds the history about many stories not in the Canon. It is the CHURCH that knows that much of St. Luke's Gospel was written with the help of the Theotokos, because only she knew the things she told him. It is sad to see such resistance. So we pray. God, bless.☦📿💝📿☦

[@youngkob3408]

@@bobicrni1284 In the language Jesus used, and the way the words were used in that time period, calling her "woman" was actually a lot more honorable than calling her "mother" In the original text, and what literally was said, "woman" gives more honor than the term "mother"

[@siewtohong7138]

So many takeaways and so much to process! 1: “…you can never be a good Christian because no one is good but God alone.” 2: “…empty ourselves out so that we can be vessels to be filled with gifts from God’s Grace..” 3: “…to love life through purpose and meaning in life can only be found in and through Christ because as Christ proclaimed ‘I am the Way, the Truth and the Life”. Thank you Father Paul for this jam-packed lesson. I sure am taking notes of your messages.

[@gustavovilla45]

As a Roman Catholic, i enjoyed this video. Protestants to me just never heard the word "Venerate" in there whole life.

[@danielgaley9676]

We were duped by Protestantism.

[@matthewnovak7351]

I knew I recognized this dude’s voice, he’s the Ek Nekron podcast guy! Thanks for another great interview. Mary is probably the most helpful topic to speak about for converts.

[@NavelOrangeGazer]

Fr. John also manages the Death to the World website and zine.

[@franciscolaureano7703]

Thank you, Father. Francisco (Stephen) ☦️❤️

[@RootsofOrthodoxy]

Thank you!! God bless 🙏

[@Franjipane-lh8ni]

Orthodox are wrong in not accepting the Immaculate Conception of Mother Mary. Two reasons are that Mother Mary announced this Herself in an apparition at Lourdes. And Jesus Christ in a message to Sister Lucia (Lucia of Fatima 1917) at Pontevedra on May 29th 1930 said “Blasphemies against the Immaculate Conception” as one of the five blasphemies against the “Immaculate heart of Mary”. Please watch the Our Lady of Lourdes video and visit the Pontevedra apparitions webpage below. At Our Lady of Lourdes Mother Mary asked St Bernadette on 11th Feb 1858 to pray the Rosary with Her and she did but Bernadette did not know who She was at that point. After seventeen apparitions and the miracle spring on March 25th 1858, the feast of the Annunciation, Bernadette asked the Lady who She was and Mother Mary replied “I am the Immaculate conception”. kzbin.info/www/bejne/amm1fIWPhc6ljtU Our Lady of Lourdes & St. Bernadette (11 February) fatima.org/the-apparitions-at-pontevedra/ God bless you

[@JamesBarber-cu5dz]

The Apostolic Church presented a straightforward, realistic, and very human picture of Mary. Saintly, but not extraordinarily so, when compared to those having walked alongside Jesus throughout His ministry. In John, Mary is mentioned in the inglorious request she made of Jesus at a wedding. His brothers clearly disbelieve Him. And Jesus tells John that she may be his responsibility at the darkest of times, during and following His crucifixion. Hence, the spiritual sword Jesus had explicitly mentioned bringing into the world through His ministry had divided even His own household. For example, in Matthew 10:34-36 we read Jesus saying: "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person's enemies will be those of his own household." Thus, as a new spiritual family called the Church was emerging amidst such conflicts, Jesus compassionately spoke to an immediate concern. However, from the beginning, Mary held and would have no special status or role.... Matthew 12:46-50: "While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.” He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.” Luke 11:27-28: "As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and blessed are the breasts that nursed You. But He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.” Acts 1:12-14: "Then the apostles returned to Jerusalem from the hill called the Mount of Olives, a Sabbath day’s walk from the city. When they arrived, they went upstairs to the room where they were staying. Those present were Peter, John, James and Andrew; Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew; James son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot, and Judas son of James. They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers." Notice that in the above list of earliest Disciples, Mary was mentioned only after the women who regularly followed Jesus and just before His previously unbelieving brothers. Therefore, it doesn't appear as though Mary was ever considered or presented as an extraordinary role model or guide when compared to any of Jesus's closest followers. Nor does she appear otherwise in writings from the earliest Fathers of the Church. Nevertheless, if anyone can provide explicit Scriptural statements demonstrating the contrary position, please do so. As someone having been on a long spiritual journey, I am committed to finding Truth. And, apart from such revelation, all pertinent evidence suggests that worldly sentiment led to abstract eisegesis and over reaching in theological discourse. From these forces a grand and glossy but ultimately unwarranted and undesirable tradition has arisen within Christ's Holy Church. Indeed, the first demon Jesus ever encountered was in a synagogue. That is, amidst the devout liturgical gatherings of God's own people. And the "Divine Mother" and "Queen of Heaven" motifs were commonplace in demonic ancient religion, including within Biblically and theologically compromised Israel itself (Jer. 44). Moreover, prior to medieval Christian claims in regards to the Apostles, the Pharisees had already developed dogma based an alleged oral tradition having passed down alongside Scripture from Moses. A principle condemned by none other than Jesus: "You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition!" Hence, all such historical realities clearly and intentionally warn us of the very subtle, yet powerful, ways in which "doctrines of demons" have been and can be introduced as if delivered by a Moses or the Apostles themselves. Finally, let's hear from recognized authorities on the matter of Scripture vs developing Church Traditions in matters of theology.... Clement of Alexandria (d. ca. 216) said, “But those who are ready to toil in the most excellent pursuits, will not desist from the search after truth, till they get the information from the Scriptures themselves” (Stromata 7:16). Hippolytus of Rome (d. 235) said, “There is, brethren, one God, the knowledge of whom we gain from the Holy Scriptures and no other source” (Against the Heresy of One Noetus 9). St. Athanasius (d. 375) said, “The Holy Scriptures, given by inspiration of God, are of themselves sufficient toward the discovery of truth. (Orat. adv. Gent., ad cap.) “The holy Scripture is of all things most sufficient for us” (To the Bishops of Egypt 1:4)." "The Catholic Christians will neither speak nor endure to hear anything in religion that is a stranger to Scripture; it being an evil heart of immodesty to speak those things which are not written,” (Exhort. ad Monachas). “Vainly then do they run about with the pretext that they have demanded Councils for the faith’s sake; for divine Scripture is sufficient above all things; but if a Council be needed on the point, there are the proceedings of the Fathers, for the Nicene Bishops did not neglect this matter, but stated the doctrine so exactly, that persons reading their words honestly, cannot but be reminded by them of the religion towards Christ announced in divine Scripture.” (De Synodis, 6). St. Cyril of Jerusalem (d. 386) said, "We ought not to deliver even the most casual remark without the Holy Scriptures: nor be drawn aside by mere probabilities and the artifices of argument. Do not then believe me because I tell thee these things, unless thou receive from the Holy Scriptures the proof of what is set forth: for this salvation, which is of our faith, is not by ingenious reasonings, but by proof from the Holy Scriptures...Let us then speak nothing concerning the Holy Ghost but what is written; and if anything be not written, let us not busy ourselves about it. The Holy Ghost Himself spoke the Scriptures; He has also spoken concerning Himself as much as He pleased, or as much as we could receive. Be those things therefore spoken, which He has said; for whatsoever He has not said, we dare not say" (Catechetical Lectures, 4.17ff). St. Gregory of Nyssa (d. 394) said, "What then is our reply? We do not think that it is right to make their prevailing custom the law and rule of sound doctrine. For if custom is to avail for proof of soundness, we too, surely, may advance our prevailing custom; and if they reject this, we are surely not bound to follow theirs. Let the inspired Scripture, then, be our umpire, and the vote of truth will surely be given to those whose dogmas are found to agree with the Divine words (Dogmatic Treatises, Book 12. On the Trinity, To Eustathius). St. Ambrose (d. 396) said, “How can we use those things which we do not find in the Holy Scriptures?” (Ambr. Offic., 1:23). St. Augustine (d. 430) said, "For the reasonings of any men whatsoever, even though they be [true Christians], and of high reputation, are not to be treated by us in the same way as the canonical Scriptures are treated. We are at liberty, without doing any violence to the respect which these men deserve, to condemn and reject anything in their writings, if perchance we shall find that they have entertained opinions differing from that which others or we ourselves have, by the divine help, discovered to be the truth. I deal thus with the writings of others, and I wish my intelligent readers to deal thus with mine (Letters, 148.15).

[@NavelOrangeGazer]

Fr. John, nice! Definitely recommend the Ek Nekron Death to the World podcast.

[@meangreenmememachine2890]

i second that! 👍

[@Franjipane-lh8ni]

Orthodox are wrong in not accepting the Immaculate Conception of Mother Mary. Two reasons are that Mother Mary announced this Herself in an apparition at Lourdes. And Jesus Christ in a message to Sister Lucia (Lucia of Fatima 1917) at Pontevedra on May 29th 1930 said “Blasphemies against the Immaculate Conception” as one of the five blasphemies against the “Immaculate heart of Mary”. Please watch the Our Lady of Lourdes video and visit the Pontevedra apparitions webpage below. At Our Lady of Lourdes Mother Mary asked St Bernadette on 11th Feb 1858 to pray the Rosary with Her and she did but Bernadette did not know who She was at that point. After seventeen apparitions and the miracle spring on March 25th 1858, the feast of the Annunciation, Bernadette asked the Lady who She was and Mother Mary replied “I am the Immaculate conception”. kzbin.info/www/bejne/amm1fIWPhc6ljtU Our Lady of Lourdes & St. Bernadette (11 February) fatima.org/the-apparitions-at-pontevedra/ God bless you

[@joannagrimeki7415]

Bible Verses about Veneration of Mary -Luke 1:28 And having come in, the angel said to her, "Rejoice, highly favored one, the Lord is with you; blessed are you among women!" // -Jeremiah 7:18 The children gather wood, the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead dough, to make cakes for the queen of heaven; // -Luke 1:40-43 40 where she entered Zechariah’s home and greeted Elizabeth. 41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42 In a loud voice she exclaimed: “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! 43 But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? The children gather wood, the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead dough, to make cakes for the queen of heaven; and they pour out drink offerings to other gods, that they may provoke Me to anger. // Orthodox Christians honor the Theotokos Mary more than all the saints and angels of heaven for she was found worthy of God to give birth to Christ, the Savior of the world by the overshadowing of the Holy Spirit. The honor we render to the Mother of the Lord is exceptional, most honorable and most revered, for she is not only "a friend of His,” as are the other saints, but she is Most Holy (Panagia) above all the saints and all the angels. For this the angels as much as people venerate and honor her with prayers, hymns, church services and eulogies. Similarly the Archangel Gabriel greeted her at the annunciation (Luke 1:28-29) as well as Saint Elizabeth, the mother of Saint John the Baptist (Luke 1:40-43). // p.s. Why the protestants keep Sola Scriptura? Nowhere it is mentioned in the Bible!!!

[@AnHebrewChild]

Jeremiah 7:18 is not a commendation of those who "kneaded cakes to the queen of heaven." The surrounding verses read: I will cast you out of my sight, as I have cast out all your brethren, even the whole seed of Ephraim. Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee. Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? *_The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger._* Do they provoke me to anger? saith the LORD: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces? Using Jeremiah 7 as an endorsement of venerating Mary (of whom was born Jesus, which is Christ) is not what you want to do.

[@danib712]

I’m guessing you just pick versus in the Bible without context because why on earth would you pick Jeremiah that is a pagan goddess.

[@herpderp3426]

That verse from Jeremiah was a reference to jews mixing pagan beliefs into their beliefs. Their "queen" of heaven was considered by them the actual wife of God our Father and shared his throne in heaven. They were considered to be a wicked generation for believing this.... And sola scriptura is because scripture is the sole authoritative source on God because it is His word. Tradition alone leads to that blasphemy from Jeremiah. Nowhere in the Bible is "trinity" or "rapture," either. That said, I am speaking as someone who is coming from a protestant into orthodoxy. That is how they/we think. For many of us, sola scriptura is all we've known. Be careful in attacking protestants, brother, especially as incorrectly as you did, lest you inadvertently gatekeep people from joining the Body of Christ. God bless you, and glory to God ☦️

[@WORKOUTSOLUTIONS]

❤✝ CHRIST IS RISEN ☦❤ ❤💪🙏✝ MOST HOLY THEOTOKOS SAINT MARY MOTHER OF GOD PLEASE PRAY FOR US SINNERS ☦🙏⛪️🕊️

[@lavilavi1057]

I know one thing: SHE SAVED MY LIFE, AND MY CHILDREN's LIFES, SO MANY TIMES! ALWAYS! SHE is the Mother of God, and a Gift for us ... from God. SHE IS OUR MOTHER! I love HER so much, I'm so grateful! ❤❤❤🕊🕊🕊🕊🕊🕊🕊🙏🙏🙏

[@sassy3923]

Not one mention of Yeshua Jesus Christ, the one who suffered and died for you....and you feel no guilt over this?

[@stanpienkiew1363]

@@sassy3923You dont know that person. Maybe she asked Theotokos for a prayer

[@Neodreth]

In a world in which people are idolizing, admiring and venerate actors, singers, celebrities in general, we Christians argue and debate if we should venerate the Mother of God. This is just sad!

[@NavelOrangeGazer]

It's worth noting that pretty much to a T the societies that created the modern worship of celebrities are all protestant. Seems like they are trying to fill a void as their cults have no saints.

[@Ex_Nihilo777]

we can't change the world but we can change each other who are in the body of Christ

[@BreeL1998]

Do your homework

[@Lexie810-b5r]

We have nothing against Mary, I'm sure she was great, but praying to her is wrong wrong wrong.

[@Tobeouy]

​@@Lexie810-b5rWhy? It's not forbidden to pray to Angels, saints and The Spouse of The Holy Spirit.

[@screechingwind114]

This is Beautiful.

[@mav8332]

As a catechumen for the past 3 months, this video was very helpful given my protestant background. However, I'm still not completely understanding the benefit of praying for the intercession of saints (or the Theotokos herself) vs. praying to God directly.

[@austinditullio6682]

Think about this way. Let's say your best friend who comes to you and says, "Hey, I have someone who needs to borrow some money because they're in an emergency situation and we're pulling funds" and this person is not a stranger to you but not necessarily a friend. Would having your best friend vauch for them on their behalf help sway you more to help than if the person came to you themselves? The Saints and The Holy Mother are in direct contact with Christ in heaven and have a closer/deeper relationship with Him than we do, so when they vouch for us on our prayers on our behalf, it holds more weight than when we go to God directly. But that doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't, it's just having more resources on our side. The Saints and the Holy Mother love to pray for us and intercede on our behalf. It's also their duty to. I hope this helps. God bless ☦️

[@DiMacky24]

God said we are to pray for one another. If you believe that the saints are in heaven, they are alive and can pray for you too. The life of the Holy Trinity is one of mutual, self-sacrificial love, and that is the life the saints, in this life and the next, have been invited into, they are thrilled to partake in that love by praying for you. Furthermore, a saint is a saint because they are indwelled and are transformed by God, praying to a saint is praying to God.

[@diananoonen2262]

In your Protestant congregation, I know full well you all would literally daily and weekly petition others to pray for you for whatever your needs. Well, this is EXACTLY the same, except we are asking powerhouses of saints to pray for us too! If you believe in Christ's ressurection, then we do not die!

[@Diff_angle]

James 5:16 “The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.” Behold, the Lord’s hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear: But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear” (Isa. 59:1-2) Sometimes when you know youve missed the mark it’s more beneficial to ask a saint to pray for you bc they are the holiest of holy and their prayers are more powerful then yours especially when you sin a lot.

[@patpierce4854]

@@austinditullio6682Indeed! It’s not one vs. the other, but one AND others, too. And remember, when you pray before an icon, you aren’t worshipping the person on the icon. Worship is due God alone. An icon is a window into heaven - the person in the icon can help you by praying for you. Prayers in front of an icon “ go through the window” , your prayers are heard and acted upon.

[@carmenanico2786]

I love and venerate the mother of our Lord and savior, mother of the disciple John and mother of the church

[@Lafilledlapluie]

I finally understood this doctrine after the dormition fast this year and that's when I decided to become a catechumen

[@oogaleeboogalee6522]

God bless!!

[@juliusagers9693]

Wonderful ☦❤

[@waynerogers5485]

I remember when I was the “Office Boy” running errands for a Law Firm that Petitions to the Court would lead off with, “We pray the Court …” Certainly not worship, but an asking for something.

[@allan3093]

Definitely like the way he explained the "Mary save us" part. I've heard it and seen it in my prayer book. I wasn't sure about how to feel about it. But now I have a clearer understanding of what is actually means

[@johnnyd2383]

St. Paul also saves... (1 Cor 9,22) "to the weak I became as weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some."

[@fthawitnuwaye1293]

Amen Amen Amen from Eritrea Orthodox ❤❤❤✝️✝️✝️🙏🙏🙏god bless you all l love you may mother Maryam😪😪😪🙏🙏🙏✝️✝️✝️

[@robertm7071]

In future, if you could avoid the constant switcfrom close-up to wide shot it would increase the peaceful experience of watching this lovely video. Just stay on one shot - that is fine and doesn’t distract from the message. Thank you. Lovely teaching from Father Valadez - such a kindly manner.

[@danielvanderkolk2069]

Great talk on the Theotokos!

[@Remind_me_to_pray]

Most Holy Theotokos, save us

[@cyurisich]

Bunch of very confident protestants wading into this comment section lol. Good vid. I find the veneration somewhere between strange (grew up protestant) and beautiful. I dont entirely understand it but there is a lot i wont entirely understand. But unlike other branches, theres not anything that makes me cringe. Ill take it

[@NavelOrangeGazer]

They are so brazen it is sad. Lord forgive them for they know not what they do. I certainly wouldn't want to stand before Christ on judgment day while having spent all my free time denigrating His mother.

[@cyurisich]

@@NavelOrangeGazer I'm not gonna rip on them. You're asking people to get over centuries of accepted ideas, what's accepted in their culture, long held views, long held prejudices, etc. I don't think many of us would change our whole belief system based on one KZbin video. We have a forgiving and merciful God.

[@williampeters9838]

As a Lutheran I’m not against venerating Mary. It’s the invocation of saints that makes me a little uncomfortable. On issues like these I’m content with saying that I don’t know, but I am glad that our salvation doesn’t rest upon whether or not we pray to Mary. I think Protestants confuse the EO attitude about invocation of saints with the Catholic one. I’ve never felt that Orthodox Christians were being idolatrous or heretical in icon veneration or invocation of saints. I understand the reasons why and while I may abstain I don’t think it’s sinful as much as I just think it’s a misplaced emphasis. I don’t think anyone is in error. However if you looked what “consecrating yourself to Mary” means in Catholicism you would understand why Protestants are wary. It gets really weird really quickly. “ I deliver and consecrate myself to you, my body and soul, myself, both interior and exterior, and the worth of my good actions, past, present and future; leaving to you the total right of disposing of me, and all that belongs to me, according to your wish, for the greater glory of God in time and in eternity.” (An excerpt from the prayer of Louis de Monfort which those consecrating themselves to Mary say.)

[@cyurisich]

@@williampeters9838 tell ya man, would be interesting to hear the Catholic defence on the matter. Your points are right, the only exposure to pre reformation stuff most prots have is Catholicism and their Mary stuff gets weird quick, so you can see why lots of people are guarded.

[@robertpayne6624]

Hmm as a Protestant who has been searching Orthodoxy and enjoying the videos and learning from them. But the comment’s towards Protestant? I pray your not representing your Church as I certainly wouldn’t be drawn to it

[@gatec4517]

I’m Catholic who is thinking about converting to Orthodoxy. I’m glad one of the many things our religions have in common is the reverence and devotion to Our Lady. ⚜️

[@sassy3923]

How about resigning from both religions and committing to our Lord and Savior Yeshua Jesus Christ? He is seeking those who will worship Him in spirit and in truth.

[@SalGargini]

​@@sassy3923that's what Orthodox do. Everything to them is about worshipping Christ. Even the priest turns his back to the congregation for most of the service and faces Christ. Orthodox is extremely Christ-centered. Go attend divine liturgy before talking about stuff you know nothing about.

[@sethtrey]

Thank you. My one question was about the "save us" part. Raised as a protestant, I am aware that strict "sola scriptura" does not contain this veneration. But it does, somewhat self-defeatingly, contain admonishments to keep tradition. My question is: is there a place in the orthodox faith for disagreement with the fathers? Or is it such that they would not be recognized as fathers if there was something worth disagreeing on? Or is taking their word as fact the thing that makes them "fathers"? I ask because I see a pattern in people where one person with authority is wrong and nobody checks because they accept (sometimes satisfying) ad hoc arguments. I suppose, in your drowning analogy, if I cry out "save me" to a person who is unable to by their power, I may just expect them to go get help? Though it seemed like an ad hoc justification of a standing statement, which I only consider valuable if I already trust the statement and am trying to see HOW it is true. And I don't extend this credence beyond the scriptura. yet. Maybe it's like in math where one assumes the opposite of the conclusion and seeks contradictions.

[@johnnyd2383]

1 Corinthians 9,22 "to the weak I became as weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, THAT I MIGHT by all means SAVE SOME."

[@sassy3923]

Christ is the only mediator between fallen man and our heavenly Father. He is all you need.

[@sethtrey]

@@sassy3923 Sure He's all you need, but He's not all you have. You would ask someone to pray for you (to Christ, probably not to Shiva or whatever.) Mary is always listening to you. "Behold, your mother". There are some things I would have a hard time expressing to my father, even who art in heaven, but my mother might understand. Maybe there's some stuff I'd tell to my uncles, and maybe I could tell St. Mark, or St. Thomas, or St. Mark Ji, depending how far down the ladder of divine ascent you're willing to climb. This is the perspective of a cradle Protestant just recently turned to Orthodoxy, btw. So these are my early experiences of these things, and aren't based on much experience, unless you consider thousands of years of the recorded thoughts and experiences of others "experiences"

[@sethtrey]

Also, it goes to clarifying that those who reposed in Christ are not dead, but alive IN CHRIST. To quote the Papists (who are right about some stuff), "Beholding the Beatific Vision (the “blessed sight” of seeing God face-to-face), they are perfectly happy and fulfilled, and perfect happiness and fulfillment are found by participating in the love of God. Of course, it’s only right and fitting that they participate in that part of the active love of God that relates to them-namely, hearing the prayers made to them and interceding for others to God. So, the angels and saints can hear our prayers because it’s their way of continuing to live out the love of God." That is, the Love of God is not a love that just sits there and receives love, and basks in the glory of being allowed to be in Heaven. It's the love of being like God, of caring for and listening to God's children, with the caveat that all they can do about it is to pray about it themselves, but Jesus liked doing that (John 17), so the saints like it, too.

[@elenalugos4477]

If God needs Holy Mary to come to us so do we need her too . After all she is the first human been who loves truly God.

[@tjkhan4541]

Does God “need” anything?

[@elenalugos4477]

@@tjkhan4541 to save humanity He’s one image

[@Theoretically-ko6lr]

Imagine getting hit by a car in a remote area. The driver abandons you and you are slowly dying. Nobody is around to help, but suddenly someone appears and takes you immediately to the hospital. The doctor operates and so you survived from this tragic incident. Now who saved you? The doctor or the that random person who found you? This is what Theotokos is in the Orthodox church. Or course the doctor/God is the ultimate savior but Theotokos is there to get us to the hospital. God bless ❤

[@kylegolden5640]

Beautifully put! Thank you☦️

[@Antreus]

Why are you calling the Holy Spirit, Theo Tokos?

[@nathanbean8763]

@@AntreusWhy are you baiting?

[@MrMysticmelody]

@@nathanbean8763 Because they can't help themselves. May God enlighten him/her to the truth.

[@Chris-wf6km]

Orthodox are wrong in not accepting the Immaculate Conception of Mother Mary and the Catholics are right. Two reasons are that Mother Mary announced this Herself in an apparition at Lourdes. And Jesus Christ in a message to Sister Lucia (Lucia of Fatima 1917) at Pontevedra on May 29th 1930 said “Blasphemies against the Immaculate Conception” as one of the five blasphemies against the “Immaculate heart of Mary”. Please watch the Our Lady of Lourdes video and visit the Pontevedra apparitions webpage below. At Our Lady of Lourdes Mother Mary asked St Bernadette on 11th Feb 1858 to pray the Rosary with Her and she did but Bernadette did not know who She was at that point. After seventeen apparitions and the miracle spring on March 25th 1858, the feast of the Annunciation, Bernadette asked the Lady who She was and Mother Mary replied “I am the Immaculate conception”. kzbin.info/www/bejne/amm1fIWPhc6ljtU Our Lady of Lourdes & St. Bernadette (11 February) fatima.org/the-apparitions-at-pontevedra/ God bless you

[@normhansen444]

Acts 11 16 to 29? says the disciples were called christians first in Antioch?

[@DefendingTheName777]

Please carefully read my previous post and to understand in-depth. Theotokos = mother of God God is Spirit (John 4:24) mother of God = mother of Spirit. One infinite Spirit, One God (Nicene Creed) "We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son." In John 14:26 the Spirit is said to proceed from the Father, but a chapter later, in 15:26, Jesus states that he will send the Spirit from the Father. The same relation is reflected in Acts 2:33, where Peter states that Jesus has received the Spirit from the Father and sends him. The term Theotokos cannot be used to exclude God who is Spirit (John 4:24) by including one member and excluding the other two members of the Trinity. God is One Infinite, Omnipresent, Omniscient Spirit who is as Nicene Creed States "God from God, Light of Light, True God of True God". One cannot dissect the term God to be exclusive to only one member of the Trinity as God is not divisible materially, spiritually, terminologically. Human argument cannot be used to deconstruct and to redefine the term God, to associate the immaterial God who transcends time and space to a material genealogical constructed identification. In conclusion, the mother of God term is the deconstruction of the Nicene Creed term God to a reconstructed term that negates the immaterial God who is Spirit (John 4:24). The term mother of God negates the Spirit of God and is a deconstructed, dissected and reconstructed term that negates the Spirit, resulting in the term God losing its Nicene Creed meaning and purpose and this is why the Assyrian Church of the East fathers reject the usage of the term mother of God.

[@kingdm3387]

Ok, i understand, but i still have some questions: 1- Concerning "Holy Theotokos, save us", i got it, but why do you count on her to deliver you from your difficult situations? Why? Is the Lord not enough powerful to help you? If he died on the cross for us, knowing our failure in pleasing and obeying God, don't you think that he's gonna help us through our bad times? (Same for the intercession of the saints) 2- Death is when the soul lives the body, it deals with our body, our whole being(when the body, the soul and the spirit are all united), death doesn't deal with the soul or the spirit. So, if the saints aren't dead, how are they? How can we qualify them? 3- You call her "Virgin Mary". But where does it say(in the Bible or in whatever book outside of the Bible which doesn't contradict it) that she died as a virgin? 4- The title "Queen of heaven". Why do you call her like that? No one can be the ruler of heaven if he's not God himself. And even if we have to imagine that God has a feminine figure to have his power(be as powerful as he is), it has to be a goddess, fully divine, not a human, cause no human can be the ruler of heaven, except Jesus, God in the flesh. Don't forget; at first, no human is above the angels(because you say that she is) and calling her "Queen of heaven" would mean that she existed before all the ages, that she's eternal, lives forever as God is, but Mary was a human, and she died, as a simple human. 5- Why do you call her Mary(i know that the priest explained, but it wasn't enough convincing) "our Mother?" I didn't get it. I'm very interested in orthodoxy, and those are my main problems i have with it, so, i'm waiting for your answers(please, not too long answers, please) thank you.

[@matthewnovak7351]

I cannot give the most detailed answer as I’m not knowledgeable enough, but I can point you in the right direction given what I’ve heard. I am not orthodox, but I am a catechumen. 3. This has a lot to do with the translation of the word “until” in Matthew 1:25. The Orthodox point to the original Greek and argue that it does not imply that Joseph and Mary consummated their marriage after Jesus was born the way it is implied in English translations. Also, they point to the verses John 19:26-27 where Jesus makes John Mary’s new caretaker. In Jewish tradition, if Mary had another son after Jesus, he would naturally be the one to assume caretaker after Jesus left. Because Jesus appointed the apostle John as caretaker, it suggests that his brothers mentioned elsewhere were Joseph’s children from before his marriage to of Mary. Furthermore, in Jewish tradition, once an object had been made sanctified for religious use, it was wrong to use it for anything else. The Orthodox believe after giving birth to Jesus, Mary was sanctified as the Mother of God, and therefore chose to maintain her purity to honor her great purpose.

[@lokdog257]

1) Yes, we can pray to the Father or the Son, there is no need to ask Mother Mary for anything. However, Mary was chosen by God, and we believe that all the Saints are alive in heaven, sitting in the divine council. The Saints have dominion over the angels. Jesus obeyed His Mother, as a good son does, and so Mary holds a place of honor among the Saints. 2) this is one of the Divine Mysteries because it's not clearly defined nor laid out in Scripture or Tradition. We believe in everlasting Life through Christ Jesus, therefore His Saints have already received their reward, and are alive with God. There are a select few that have bodily entered into heaven, and Tradition holds that Mary died, then her body was taken into heaven, where she lives with Christ. 3) I don't know of anywhere in Scriptures that states she died a virgin, but I do know that she was honored and venerated by the Apostles, it was said she was sinless, and the knowledge of her virginity has been passed down through the Church. 4) this goes back to my earlier point; Mother Mary has the unique position of being the mother of God, mother to the King of the Universe, and the mother of the King is called a Queen. Mary is always pointing to and directing people to "do as He says". Her will is aligned with and submitted to God's will, so anything she does as "Queen of Heaven" is good and appropriate because it's the will of God. 5) Jesus was the "first born" son of God, and in ancient cultures the eldest son distributed the inherentience to his siblings. Jesus adopted Christians into His inherentience, which is why the Lord's Prayer starts with "Our Father" and not "Christ's Father". Jesus allows us to be Sons of God, and as Christ's Father is our Father, Christ's mother is our mother. I hope I helped.

[@lindaphillips4646]

❤ You are asking variations on many questions that prtnsts have. Thank you for the ways you phrased them as you seek to understand. The CHURCH answers them beautifully. I am speaking of the Orthodox Church here. Rome left the fullness of the faith in 1054, and has added things and deleted things which the Orthodox Church has not done. Long story behind those words, but important and too long to touch here. I bring this up here because there are so many who have such a visceral hatred for rome, that they cannot bring themselves to contemplate anything about the CHURCH founded on Pentecost which has, even through terrible struggles, not waivered. I am in that CHURCH, but i by no means measure up to those who came before me and preserved the Faith under the power of the Lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit and God the Father. The CHURCH wrote the New Testament. The CHURCH canonized it. The CHURCH had NOT fallen into apostasy. Those who claim to follow the New Testament but despise the CHURCH, are believing in a book confirmed by an unrighteous church, in their minds. But the most obstinant won't acknowledge that.. Sad.. Keep watching the MANY videos that are available. But, please, contact an Orthodox Church and an Orthodox priest and talk to him, face to face, if possible. THIS is the work he has dedicated his life to. It will be his joy to talk to you.. (although he might be tired some days...😏). And go to a Church and meet members and become friends and talk to them.. You will see the Faith made alive as you observe the services. ☦📿💝📿☦

[@lindaphillips4646]

My response was very long and i didn't answer your questions. 💝 You will probably get very good ones. My emphasis was a bit different. Please forgive if it was of little value. God, bless. ☦☦

[@kingdm3387]

@@lindaphillips4646 don't worry, it's okay

[@EdmoTV]

I was born into a Protestant family, my grandmother had 9 children and they were all Baptist and lived close to each other. So I was always surrounded by Baptists, even after I became an atheist. But today I'm interested in Christianity again after seeing where the world is going, but I think Baptist is not for me. I can understand why orthodox is in favor of the saints, but I don't think my family will ever understand. They not only think it is wrong, but they will also think it is demonic. Here in Brazil practitioners of African religions associate their own deities, known as orixás, with Catholic saints. This practice, known as syncretism, is a result of the historical context of the colonial period in Brazil, during which African slaves were prohibited from practicing their native religions openly. As a result, they began to associate their deities with Catholic saints in order to practice their faith discreetly. This association is not based on a belief in the Catholic saints themselves, but rather on the shared attributes and symbolism between the orixás and the saints. I remember when I was a child, on the day of Saints Cosmas and Damian, which is a public holiday here in Brazil. Children went out onto the streets to get sweets from houses, this is very similar to Halloween, but without costumes. My mother wouldn't let me participate because several houses offering sweets were not from Catholics, but from Candomblé and Umbanda. One time I took a candy and my mother found out and made me spit it out. I didn't know anything about the historical context at that time, because I was just a child. I thought my mother saw Saints Cosmas and Damian as demons, maybe she dit not think that... but the truth is that most Protestants here in Brazil do believe that they are demons who infiltrated the church. 🤦

[@lindaphillips4646]

❤ Oh, my. Just saw this. So happy to know that you watch such things and are thinking about them. I pray that you not be discouraged. I deeply sympathize with your situation. If your family hates all things catholic instead of the places where it has left the fullness of the Faith and has a highly-rationalistic mindset (which helped birth the prtnst world to go even farther into that way of thinking), then you are up against serious pushback as you seek to understand the Orthodox Church. (Be of good cheer. The Lord has overcome such things in many converts, and HE can help you go through it.) We converts have rejoiced in learning about the saints who prayed to the Lord for the whole world in their earthly lives and continue to this moment to do that now that they are with Him.. We were given a lovely icon of Saints Cosmas and Damien when my husband was very ill. I have a much different relationship with them now than i would have had before.. Keep watching and searching. The Orthodox Church is a blessing to the world. ☦📿💝📿☦

[@Asildriez]

I was looking into Orthodoxy but I can't get with anyone claiming Mary to be "The Most Holy One". The Bible clearly states that only God is Holy so how then could Mary be the most Holy?

[@shobudski6776]

@@AsildriezWhere do the Orthodox say that?

[@Asildriez]

@@shobudski6776 The way the Father worded it made it seem like he knows people within the church who say that. I have seen Catholic priest just straight up say it during mass.

[@ArchangelIcon]

Your family is close, but they think it demonic for the family of God to be close? That makes no sense.

[@sassy3923]

The righteous dead are not dead, they are sleeping in their graves awaiting the resurrection that Paul spoke about. When a person dies and is resurrected, he has no conception of how much time has passed; it could be a few hours, or a few thousand years. After dying his next conscious moment will be his awakening in the resurrection so it will be as though he never died.

[@ABO-Destiny]

It makes me feel uneasy to think she is considered the first Christian. Instead I like to imagine her as mother of all Christians. Hopefully I am not upsetting anyone. Its just my personal way of thinking.

[@ABO-Destiny]

Ok, so father also said that in later part of the video. 🙏🙏

[@Cteabis]

She is both

[@jasonsworld333]

At the wedding she said the Apostles do whatever he asks of you. She is the first Christian.

[@dennycascade7455]

As a protestant, I love orthodoxy and Catholics and embrace them. My question though, in sincerity, is why is Mary not mentioned by Paul even once in all his letters, The disciples epistles never mention Mary apart from her being the mother of our lord, Jesus; while someone was reciting something that sounds very similar to the Hail Mary prayer, directs the attention off of Mary and says “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.” luke 11:27-28, and Early church fathers like Justin Martry, Tertullian, polycarp, etc never once emphasize Mary pass the point of her being Jesus’s mom. If all the people I listed didnt emphasize Mary to the level that modern catholics and orthodox do overtime, then why is it a Issue that us Protestants call her the Mother of God but restrain from bowing down to a icon of her and praying through her?

[@crisruiz6310]

You use the passage from luke to say that Jesus rejected the blessing from the Crowd towards Mary. But didn’t Mary also obey God. We can emphasize that Jesus was not contradicting, but adding to that praise. Jesus was saying that not only praise the breast that fed me, but also that she was obeying God by doing it.

[@crisruiz6310]

The early church did venerate Mary, how can we know? Bu the heresies that they fought. There was two heresies. 1. Women who praised Mary as a Godess and offering her cakes to her honor. 2. Those who said Mary was just a filthy human. And the church had to clarified the position about Mary. 3. The apostles venerated her and took care of her while the ministry was going. So why did not they mentioned her in the epistles? Well, if you read the epistles, the epistles are exhortations to an especific church, why would they mentioned Mother Mary while making exhortations to the church? It seems you protestants want to make everything appeared on the bible. How can you know the structure of you church is correct while the bible teaches there is a priesthood and a hierarchy on the church?

[@collinurbania7480]

When you say “early church fathers” do you mean before the Bible, before 300 ad, or before all the schism, etc? Because when you perceive history you also have to look at how it developed. More verbal practices were 100% necessary before persecution ended in the 300’s. This means all writing did not encompass the FULL tradition. As time continued it got developed and as we saw heresy come in things got developed more and more. There was still as much heresy before 300 AD happening but they were not allowed to have councils like Nicea before then due to persecution

[@UnworthySeraphim]

While I am not qualified to give you a full answer on the matter, I could also ask you a similar question in regards to a lot of your regular practices you hold that are not found explicitly in scripture. For example how a Sunday service in a Church should be structured. I'm not aware of your protestant denomination, but having come from Protestantism myself, a common theme/structure I found was, opening song or 2, announcements, pastoral prayer, perhaps another song or 2, the reading of the scripture, a short prayer, a long sermon taking up at least 50% of a total 1.5hr service from start to finish, then a closing prayer and a closing doxology hymn. Where is any of that bread and butter protestant structure mentioned at all in scripture? It's not. And while I understand the difference between your question and my answer/question, the principal is the same in so far as participating in worship practices that are not explicitly found in Holy scripture. I'm sure there are many other practices and traditions you as a Protestant hold to that are just as equally absent from scripture. Just some good for thought

[@johnnyd2383]

Saint Ignatius was the direct disciple of Saint Join. The Epistle of Ignatius to the Virgin Mary Her friend Ignatius to the Christ-bearing Mary. THOU oughtest to have comforted and consoled me who am a neophyte, and a disciple of thy [beloved] John. For I have heard things wonderful to tell respecting thy [son] Jesus, and I am astonished by such a report. But I desire with my whole heart to obtain information concerning the things which I have heard from thee, who wast always intimate and allied with Him, and who wast acquainted with [all] His secrets. I have also written to thee at another time, and have asked thee concerning the same things. Fare thou well; and let the neophytes who are with me be comforted of thee, and by thee, and in thee. Amen. Reply of the Blessed Virgin to this Letter. The lowly handmaid of Christ Jesus to Ignatius, her beloved fellow-disciple. THE things which thou hast heard and learned from John concerning Jesus are true. Believe them, cling to them, and hold fast the profession of that Christianity which thou hast embraced, and conform thy habits and life to thy profession. Now I will come in company with John to visit thee, and those that are with thee. Stand fast in the faith, and show thyself a man; nor let the fierceness of persecution move thee, but let thy spirit be strong and rejoice in God thy Saviour. Amen. These letters were published in the book: Title: ANF01. The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus

[@williampeters9838]

Christ is coming again and the argument over whether or not we should venerate saints won’t matter then. It’s okay if everyone doesn’t agree.

[@IAMFISH92]

Not according the OC. To deny the veneration of the saints and prayers to them is to be pronounced as outside the canonical bounds of salvation. I left the EOC partly because of this. I don’t think veneration of saints is inherently wrong, but to force it on other people absolutely is. Hebrews is clear, we may approach the throne of grace BOLDLY because of Jesus. We need not go to anyone else, regardless of whether or not it’s permissible to.

[@Ex_Nihilo777]

​@@IAMFISH92I agree with you, but I hope you did not leave the body of Christ

[@IAMFISH92]

@@Ex_Nihilo777 I didn’t. I love Jesus! But I did leave the Eastern Orthodox Church. I’m starting to realize that every physical institution that calls itself THE church has problems both theologically and historically.

[@Ex_Nihilo777]

@@IAMFISH92 fair enough brother, and I do understand what you're saying

[@donhaddix3770]

venerate /vĕn′ə-rāt″/ transitive verb To regard with deep respect or reverence. synonym: revere. Similar: revere To regard with reverential respect; to honor with mingled respect and awe; to reverence; to revere. "we venerate parents and elders" Similar: venerated verb To treat with great respect and deference. venerate /vĕn′ə-rāt″/ transitive verb To regard with deep respect or reverence. synonym: revere. Similar: revere To regard with reverential respect; to honor with mingled respect and awe; to reverence; to revere. "we venerate parents and elders" Similar: venerated verb To treat with great respect and deference. yes, venerate, worship, no. pray to, no.

[@IAMFISH92]

Please read the canon of repentance to the Theotokos by Theodore the studite… Tell me if this is the same Jesus and gospel presented in the Holy scriptures.

[@Sophie-nd1ti]

I was born and raised in Canada and after university, I moved to Greece, almost 26 years now. In all my years here, never have I heard a priest explain these things so eloquently and simply all at once. I wish the priests of Greece realised how important it is to use simple language and concepts so that they could save the Orthodox religion. I’m afraid the newest generation of Greeks has strayed very far from our religion and our values.

[@imanqumsieh3711]

Well said father 🙏🏻❤️☦️

[@paradoxartworks]

Why do we pray "through the Theotokos have mercy on us" when scripture says there is One Mediator and only God can forgive sins?

[@johnnyd2383]

That is intercessory prayer petitioning Saint to approach Lord on our behalf. It does not impute another mediator. What did the God say to the 2 "friends" of Job.?

[@DefendingTheName777]

The Assyrian Church of the East fathers rightly rejected the term Theotokos (mother of God). Jesus said I must go before the Holy Spirit comes for if I don't go then He cannot come. Jesus was conceived by The Holy Spirit. The presence of the Holy Spirit was in the world, that is why the Acts 20:28 declares "the Holy Spirit has set you overseers, to shepherd the church of God, which He purchased with His own blood." God is Spirit (John 4:24) and the presence of the Devine Spirit nature was in the world and the 1st Century Apostolic Church disclosed that God was in the world as The Emmanuel of the Old Testament prophecies. If we also consider the correlation of the Word's presence as the Angel of Yahweh's Presence in Isaiah 63:9-10 "the Angel of His (Yahweh) Presence saved them. But they rebelled and grieved His Holy Spirit." Jesus said God is Spirit and so we need to understand that the Spirit of God walked with man in the Persona of the Son and in the Old Testament as the Angel of Yahweh's Presence. Jesus would say that His presence cannot be at the same time as the Holy Spirit, why? The Spirit of God is One God, as the Nicene Creed states "God from God, Light from Light, True God from True God". The term God is definitely associated with the Spirit of God, for Jesus warned the Pharisees as follows, "Because of this I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men; but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. And if anyone speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but if anyone speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, neither in this age nor in the coming one." Jesus right there and then is distinguishing between his two natures, the one that is the Son of Man and the other that is the Devine Spirit (John 4:24). Jesus is saying mocking my humanity can be forgiven, however mocking the Holy Works of the Devine agency owing to the Devine nature of the Spirit is unforgivable. For the term Theotokos (mother of God) to apply to the Devine, it would imply Mary is the mother of the Spirit of God and this is Blasphemy. That is why one cannot use the term God by being inclusive of only one member whilst excluding the other two members of the Trinity.

[@johnnyd2383]

Assyrians are Nestorian heretics. They are under anathema ever since they fell off of the Church.

[@herpderp3426]

God bless you brother, and I admire your boldness. That is something you see more of in orthodoxy that you don't really see in protestantism. But I do have one question, as I am new to orthodoxy. As a protestant interested in orthodoxy, what, then, is the true difference? If I am to believe that there is a Holy Trinity (I'm coming from a church that does not believe in this, so I am still learning about this), then the divineness of Jesus is unto itself and, therefore, not blasphemous toward the Holy Spirit? Especially considering the acknowledgement of the Holy Spirit's role in the dispassionate conception of Christ? That said, I heard at some point "Christokos" or something to that effect (please forgive my ignorance) and do find it more accurate. However, going back to the trinity, if we also confess that Jesus is God, and Mary bore him, then as a protestant looking into orthodoxy, do not see a significant distinction between "Mary the Mother of God" versus "Mary the Mother of Christ." As a newcomer and outsider, both simply sound correct. God bless you, and I would greatly appreciate any reply you have for me.

[@eotpatriarchs]

Yes, the virgin Mary gets a lor of names "within de Church" I know that. However, Jesus, the One that took His human body out of her, He is in charge to give her a name and all the evaluations. And He NEVER addressed her as His mother, NEVER taught us to venerate her, NEVER talked ANYTHING about worshiping her as a saint or maker of miracles. That is NOT in His Bible.

[@johnnyd2383]

Sola Scriptura is also NOVWHERE in the Bible, yet, you endorse it. In order to avoid hypocrisy you should be rather silent about the matters that are allegedly not in the Bible.

[@eotpatriarchs]

@@johnnyd2383 You may refrain from jumping straight to the conclusion accusing me of hypocrisy, before allowing me to help you understand the real matter. Here is the thing. To begin with, I didn’t talk about Sola Scriptura. But even talking about Sola Scriptura, though its literal name is NOT in Bible, the Bible is full of its meaning. Jesus Himself stayed on IT IS WRITTEN when being temped in the wilderness. And in John 5:19 He tells us that ALL He was doing, He was doing as He saw His Fater doing. Even Saint John Chrysostom mentions it, paraphrased, in his Homily XIII to 2 Corinthians as it follows: „Wherefore I exhort and entreat you all, DISREGARD WHAT THIS MAN AND THAT MAN THINKS about these things, and inquire from the Scriptures ALL these things; and having learnt what are the true riches, let us pursue after them that we may obtain also the eternal good things…” However, when it comes to Jesus addressing His mother as mom, you can NOT find ANYWHERE in the whole Bible, never ever, Jesus having in mind to call her as mom by any words that can suggest Him addressing her as such. Therefore, your argument can’t stand, neither your “wise” advice given to me to be silent about the matters that are allegedly not in the Bible.

[@TnrtRW]

Just one problem, In order to do that veneration surely you must have a scriptural rationale for this rather than a purely emotional response. Jesus in the Gospels nor any of the early apostles indicated that this was to be practiced. Respected yes, loved yes but in your deification of her seems very close to heretical practice. The Scripture is quite clear on this/ it appears to me at least that what you are doing is a whole lot of rationalization. I understand, the Hebrews and Muslim do the same thing when they deny His deity. They were willing to sacrifice the truth in order to support their traditions. Follow Christ and Him alone , there is no other way or intermediary. 😢

[@alexschexnayder8624]

We don't see veneration as being the same as worship. Worship throughout scripture is usually tied to sacrifice. Where no sacrifice is present there is an intent, and when the improper intent is expressed that is corrected. We offer Mary no sacrifice, and regard her as the first and greatest of Christians, for if to be Christian it means we have Jesus within us, she is the first to do so in a very literal way. She is a woman who chose to live a holy life. Holy people are shown honor in the scriptures(which is how we Orthodox understand the term veneration) without this showing of honor(veneration) being seen as heretical. The act of bowing, or the singing of praises, as honor for Mary as such we do not see as an act of worship. Likewise as a former Protestant I don't see the songs that I sang in large gatherings as being worship, strictly speaking, either. Those songs were merely praise. As such I suggest to you that our veneration seems like worship to you because your own tradition doesn't understand the difference between the giving of honor(veneration) and the giving of worship. Mostly because you've collapsed the practice of worship into the lower, but equally necessary acts, of honoring and praising.

[@sidewaysfcs0718]

Veneration is not worship. Worship is a sacrifice.

[@IAMFISH92]

@@sidewaysfcs0718There’s no distinction like that made in scripture. Worship literally just means to “lay flat” or “prostrate”. Sacrifice definitely was OFTEN involved in the acts of worship. But there by no means was always attached to worship the necessity for sacrifice. When St. John falls before the angel he is rebuked for worshipping him. No sacrifice involved. This distinction between latria and dulia is a much later distinction.

[@gloriakattouah8153]

As a Protestant, I don’t understand how the Orthodox explain bowing before icons and actually kissing them. The second commandment tells us not to make any graven images. We should only worship God, not pieces of painted artwork. I think this word “veneration” is kind of dancing around the issue. We are also told in the Bible not to pray to the dead. Isn’t that what is happening when you pray to the saints? They are, after all, just humans, not gods. Please help me to understand because these things are holding me back from perusing Orthodoxy.

[@ThisCharmingBat]

Bowing and kissing are not worship but showing respect and love to the ones depicted.

[@williamcordasco945]

Well, it is difficult conceptually, for Protestants especially, and non liturgical ones in particular. Mary is God’s link to humanity, to us. She is mankind’s “yes” to Eve’s “no” . Her icons, and those of the other saints, are not graven images- they are devotional objects, not art. Veneration is honor given to those who best lived Christian lives (and often paid for that). We don’t worship them- that would be wrong. They help us in prayer and the Orthodox 9:49 do not believe that saints are dead. They live in eternity at the feet of God, and are closer to God than are we as they lived unworldly lives and now live heavenly ones. Why would you ask anyone in this life to pray for someone, but not ask those who persevered, who “ran the race” already?

[@gloriakattouah8153]

@@ThisCharmingBat look up the definition of bowing. It is indeed worship.

[@joehill572]

In the east people bow instead of shake hands. It’s a sign of respect. ​@@gloriakattouah8153

[@luigipride6205]

Matthew 12:48

[@Eyesofmars2040]

I was baptized Greek Orthodox as a baby. This teaching is the main one that made me leave the Orthodox Church. It’s just not biblical or even in the early writings of the church.

[@oogaleeboogalee6522]

With all due respect, I believe you are mistaken. Let's analyze your statement: "It's just not biblical" What are you referring to? Luke 1 and 2 are full of Marian praises, calling her the Mother of the Lord and saying that she is blessed among women and that the Lord is with her. Also, I assume you converted to some form of Protestantism, so that begs the question, why do you rely on the canon of scripture that the Orthodox Church produced for its liturgical worship, yet reject that same Orthodox Church and its liturgical worship? The Bible was always meant to be read within its liturgical context, even Saint John makes note that the Gospels could be much longer in John 21:25. The Gospels read like a lectionary for Church homilies and hymns, maybe because that's what their primary purpose is. "Or even the early writings of the Church" Besides Saint Luke who documents how the Archangel Gabriel, a messenger of God, called Mary the Theotokos 'Highly Favored among Women' there are multiple accounts of the Apostolic Fathers concerning Mary. Some, like Saint Evodius of Antioch, even personally exchanged letters and conversations with Mary. The Protoevangelium of James is a good resource for this. Looking at early hymns of the Church like "Under thy Protection" dedicated to Mary the Theotokos, traced back to the 1st century, are also useful. The protoevangelium states: “And the priest said, ‘Mary, why have you done this? And why have you brought your soul low and forgotten the Lord your God?’ . . . And she wept bitterly saying, ‘As the Lord my God lives, I am pure before him, and know not man’” Mary the Theotokos was pure before God. Saint Hippolytus of Rome, a bit later of a Church Father, writes in the early 3rd century: “But the pious confession of the believer is that . . . the Creator of all things incorporated with Himself a rational soul and a sensible body from the *all-holy Mary, ever-virgin,* by an undefiled conception, without conversion, and was made man in nature, but separate from wickedness" He calls Mary the panagia and ever-virgin. A position upheld by the Orthodox Church today. Everything the Orthodox Church teaches about Mary the Theotokos is completely in line with scripture and tradition.

[@iggyantioch]

​@@oogaleeboogalee6522 The Canon of Scripture is a Catholic book. Which the Orthodox choose to use after the schism. Not a solo effort. Credit where credit is due please. Thank you.

[@iggyantioch]

Exodus 25:11-21 - the ark of the Old Covenant was made of the purest gold for God’s Word. Mary is the ark of the New Covenant and is the purest vessel for the Word of God made flesh. 2 Sam. 6:7 - the Ark is so holy and pure that when Uzzah touched it, the Lord slew him. This shows us that the Ark is undefiled. Mary the Ark of the New Covenant is even more immaculate and undefiled, spared by God from original sin so that she could bear His eternal Word in her womb. 1 Chron. 13:9-10 - this is another account of Uzzah and the Ark. For God to dwell within Mary the Ark, Mary had to be conceived without sin. For Protestants to argue otherwise would be to say that God would let the finger of Satan touch His Son made flesh. This is incomprehensible. 1 Chron. 15 and 16 - these verses show the awesome reverence the Jews had for the Ark - veneration, vestments, songs, harps, lyres, cymbals, trumpets. Luke 1:39 / 2 Sam. 6:2 - Luke’s conspicuous comparison’s between Mary and the Ark described by Samuel underscores the reality of Mary as the undefiled and immaculate Ark of the New Covenant. In these verses, Mary (the Ark) arose and went / David arose and went to the Ark. There is a clear parallel between the Ark of the Old and the Ark of the New Covenant.

[@sassy3923]

There is not one word by any apostle or even by Christ Himself to suggest that the continued veneration of Mary would ever be appropriate. When you venerate Mary or any other human you take your eyes off Christ and that is idolatry: "I am the LORD; that is My name! I will not yield My glory to another or My praise to idols." (Isaiah 42:8) Mary was blessed but she was not sinless...the Bible would have said she was the exception to the rule that ALL have sinned and come short of the the glory of God. (Romans 3:23). She was a sinner like the rest of us and needed Yeshua Jesus Christ's salvation like everyone else. The Catholics make this same error and it's a shame upon Christ and our witness to the world.

[@oogaleeboogalee6522]

If the archangel Gabriel could say "Hail! thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women..." why shouldn't we? Nobody is making Mary an idol in place of God the Father or His Son Jesus Christ. We love Mary the Theotokos precisely because she is the mother of Jesus Christ, who is God and savior. She was also saved by grace through unyielding faith in God, a faith so strong that she did not sin bodily, though still being tempted by sin, and was so strong that God decided that if there were any woman on earth to be called "blessed" it would be Mary! Going off of this, if God honored Mary by choosing her to be Theotokos, why shouldn't we?

[@iggyantioch]

She was "Hailed" by heaven And her tile bestowed "Full of Grace"

[@dreamerchick]

I was raised Catholic, but isn't God very clear in the Bible about praising and idolizing? I am now a newborn Christian, and while Mary is indeed Jesus, mother, God has not changed. He is the only one we should be praising and idolizing!

[@danib712]

Because you are reborn the holy spirt revealed the truth to you. it’s true that the truth sets you free ❤ Praise God!

[@bernardauberson7218]

One thing is very clear : don’t despise the Mother of God ! How would Christ receive you in heaven, Surely He will shut the door to your nose and say: I don’t know you … go away ! Weep and morn !

[@iggyantioch]

Mary - the Immaculate Ark of the New Covenant Exodus 25:11-21 - the ark of the Old Covenant was made of the purest gold for God’s Word. Mary is the ark of the New Covenant and is the purest vessel for the Word of God made flesh. 2 Sam. 6:7 - the Ark is so holy and pure that when Uzzah touched it, the Lord slew him. This shows us that the Ark is undefiled. Mary the Ark of the New Covenant is even more immaculate and undefiled, spared by God from original sin so that she could bear His eternal Word in her womb.

[@ShaolinsHappyFeet]

The Blessed Mother is the glue that kept the early Apostles together. If she didnt mother the early church and raise it like she did the Child Jesus.... it would have extinguished itself in the 1st few years.

[@IsraelSuperguide]

With all your respect, brother. But Miriam (Mary) she was never a Christian, but a God-fearing, observant Jew! This is one of the problems of the church. Taking off the Jewishness of Yeshua, Miriam, Shaul, and others. Also, God has no beginning. How can then another sinful woman be his mother? That is the issue of how you translate Theotokos. Because God has not mother. Instead, she bore Him. Is she blessed? Yes indeed, Was she sinless absolutely no! She, too, needed a Savior. Also, she didn't remain a virgin. Read well the text well. Joseph didn't "know" (i.e., had intercourse) till Yeshua was born. Therefore, they had more children, which were mentioned by name in the gospels, and please don't come with the unfounded story that they were Joseph 's children from a previous marriage or that they were cousins. I respect Mary for obeying the voice of the angel and bearing Yeshua; but from that to deify her and call her mother of God, or pray to her that is where I draw the line on the sand. God is One. And we can't impose God likeness on another sinful human being, which was deify in the council of Ephesus. The Apostles, including Paul, never refer her or Yeshua with that title. Instead She said to the servants of the wedding, DO WHATEVER HE (i.e., Yeshua) TELLS YOU TO DO.

[@sassy3923]

Praying to the saints - who are resting unconscious in their graves because the dead know nothing (Eccles. 9:5) - opens up the door to spiritualism which is forbidden in the word of God. People....read your Bibles! We all need to have a knowledge of the truth for ourselves. This is why there are so many Christian denominations and why many in the world laugh at us. If we can't agree on the basic truths why should others take us seriously? The gospel is very simple and wholesome. It should never be encumbered by icons and other Catholic trappings. I love to read the stories of Richard Wurmbrand, Amy Carmichael, Dr. Paul Brand because they are inspiring examples of how to live for Christ. I can't wait to be with these family members should I make it to heaven. But I would never pray to them. That's the difference.

[@Antreus]

They always leave out this scripture. Luke 11:27-28 While Jesus was saying these things, one of the women in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that carried You, and the breasts at which You nursed But He said, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.” If we are really pursuing cries, then why are we praying through his mother when we have direct access to the throne of grace through Jesus Christ as our advocate?

[@Antreus]

Truly protestants aren’t “protesting” anything other than asking you to explain yourselves, and not explain a way what the scriptures, explicitly, say, contrary to your holy traditions. The Bible tells us to consider every man a liar, but let God be true. So what is revealed to you through your holy traditions why does it tend to contradict the scripture that instruct us in righteousness? Why aren’t you convicted? There is an entire lexicon built to support theological concerns that the Bible doesn’t even address. How can Saints pray for us when they die when we haven’t been resurrected yet until Christ returns? How are we more righteous and blessed than Mary, if we keep all of the commands of Jesus

[@kriszenn1125]

"Mary was more blessed in accepting the faith of Christ than in conceiving the flesh of Christ. To someone who said, 'Blessed is the womb that bore you,' He replied, 'Rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God and keep it.' Finally, for his brothers, his relatives according to the flesh who did not believe in him, of what advantage was that relationship? Even her maternal relationship would have done Mary no good unless she had borne Christ more happily in her heart than in her flesh." -St. Augustine of Hippo

[@gilbertovalenzuela7118]

@@Antreus Protestant ideology hinders you from understanding the descent into hades. Christ actually went into hell to save the souls of the dead and preach the Gospel. If you want scripture that supports the position that the Orthodox have read Revelations 5:8. This describes how liturgy is held in Heaven and proves that 1. The saints are alive. 2. Intercession and veneration has biblical meaning and is fully supported by scripture

[@merg-vh5sx]

Looks like there's a potential translation issue there. Read the same verses across a number of translations to see.

[@chriss3674]

In Luke's Gospel (1:46-48) it says explicitly: "46And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, 47And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. 48For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed." So if we were to take your exegesis of Luke 11:27-28 at face value, we would have to assume that the Gospel contradicts itself, as Luke 1:46-48 says all generations will call her blessed. That's nonsense, the Gospel does not contradict itself. So what is Luke 11:27-28 trying to say? Keep in mind who Christ is talking to. It is shown many times through the four Gospels that the people of Israel fundamentally misunderstand who Christ is and what His Kingdom is about. They believe that He is an earthly king and that they are the earthly inheritors of that Kingdom because of their blood lineage from Abraham. The woman who cries out does NOT understand that Christ is God, and does not understand that it is not blood lineage that is most important, but that the sons and daughters of the Kingdom are those who DO what He commands. So He meets her at her understanding and corrects her, that grace from God is not a function of familial relations but is a function of being obedient to God. Which of course, the Blessed Virgin is obedient, as she says to the angel Gabriel in Luke 1:38 "Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word.". Which is of course is why the Holy Spirit speaks through Elizabeth and says in Luke 1:42-45: "Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. 43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy. 45 And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord.".

[@mmsk2010]

Where do you get she was the first Christian? You guys ascribe a lot to Mary that is not recorded in scripture.

[@SalGargini]

Do you think that all knowledge of Mary has to be written in the gospels? That's insane. You understand that scripture is part of a much larger universe of apostolic Church tradition that you're not even aware of because you're part of a church tradition that started 1500 years after Jesus, as opposed to the historical Church.

[@julenkally]

Timingly! My Baptist acquintance always says we worship The Mother. And she says praying to Her is not Biblical and idolatry etc. Also she says that funeral service in the Church is not Biblical and useless for the dead. They proclaim Sola scriptura and that's all.

[@scottaustin7067]

The sad thing is Sola Scriptura is spoken against in the Scriptures. Praying for your friend and all nonorthodox to come to the truth.

[@lindaphillips4646]

Bless you. Keep watching such videos as these. ☦☦

[@ArchangelIcon]

Maybe point out that the veneration of the saints in Christianity came before the Scriptures did. Point them to Orthodox explanations on the internet if they are really interested in understanding. If they aren't interested and don't wish to know, then stop engaging with them on the subject.

[@lindaphillips4646]

​@@ArchangelIconamen

[@tjkhan4541]

@@scottaustin7067may I ask what you mean by that, or what passage(s) you have in mind?

[@MariAmmaSar]

Confess your sins, O you Pagans, and accept Ma Durga as the Savior of Humanity. Turn away from your most wicked ways. Theotokos is mere human, Ma Durga is Divine.

[@King_Maximus0]

Ironic to call us pagans when you follow polytheism

[@danib712]

Are you truly born again??? do you know for sure you are going to heaven when you die?

[@georgepierson4920]

Nobody can know for sure that they are going to heaven. Even Paul hoped that he would be saved. Not once did he ever say that he was so sure. In Romans 11 he warns against bragging.

[@Kim-eh2ov]

Natsarim

[@nicholaswheeler507]

Did Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savoir, king of all kings, tell us to venerate His mother? Where does Jesus tell us this? Did Paul tell us? 🤔

[@nicholaswheeler507]

Where does Holy Scripture tell us Mary is Holy and without sin? Is she the foundation of the church, or is it Jesus?

[@ArchangelIcon]

You will fine very many practices of Christianity that were established before the Church compiled Scripture. If veneration of Christ's mother and the other Saints of the Church was a terrible thing, you'd imagine there'd have been a serious forbidding of it. Scripture itself is one of those Traditions of the early Church, so if you are to believe that the practices of the Church are wrong and against God, then you should logically doubt the validity of the Bible which that very same Church compiled centuries later.

[@cantrait7311]

Why wouldn’t you venerate His mother it’s Gods mother you heretical Protestant

[@DiMacky24]

​To summarize... Holy Tradition determined what was to be in the Holy Scripture, not the other way around. Tradition was followed by Scripture, not replaced by it. Reject Holy Tradition, and you reject Holy Scripture.

[@nicholaswheeler507]

@@ArchangelIcon Was the Bible written by the apostles? Isn't eye witnesses testimony more valid than what the later church practiced? If Jesus wanted us to practice the veneration of Mary, why wouldn't He mention that just like He mentioned Communion? If we are to pray to saints, why didn't the apostles mention it?

[@andyontheinternet5777]

Don't fall for this semi-paganism masquerading as the "One True Church." In the Orthodox tradition, you are REQUIRED to venerate images or you're considered anathema. Most of their teaching of Mary are NOWHERE in the Bible. She was NOT born sinless. She is NOT a co-mediator. She is NOT more gracious that Jesus. She was NOT a perpetual virgin after Jesus was born. She did NOT ascend to heaven like Jesus or Elijah.

[@oogaleeboogalee6522]

How is it "semi-paganism"? Orthodox Christianity is the historically preserved tradition of Christianity with verifiable roots going back to the Apostles. Were the apostles pagan? Please use historical evidence that is consistent with Christ's promise that the Church would not fall away in Matthew 16:18 Icon veneration is not "REQUIRED" with emphasis on dependency for salvation, that's a Protestant mindset being forced into an Orthodox Christian worldview, which isn't compatible. Belief in the _principle_ of icon veneration is required to be in communion with the Orthodox Church, because if you deny that icons can be venerated, you deny that the incarnation can be venerated, which is to deny Jesus Christ's glory. This is not to say that icons ARE Jesus Christ incarnate, but rather that they depict the incarnated Son of God. Refer to St John of Damascus "I do not worship matter, I worship God, who for our sake became matter" And what you said about Orthodox Christians believing Mary the Theotokos to be "more gracious than Jesus" is false. We do not believe she is more gracious than God. We don't even believe she saved herself, she was saved by grace through her unrelenting faith in God. However, we do uphold, as the early Church fathers did (many of which were in direct communication to Mary the Theotokos) that she chose not to sin. She did inherit a sin nature, but she did inherit the corruption from Adam that is inherited in all humans, but she was not forced, by nature, to sin. Nothing God creates can be naturally evil therefore we believe humankind has an inherited sin corruption and guilt, but not exactly an evil nature. Refer to the Confession of Dositheus (1672) as well as the Didache (1st century) All of the witnesses of the early Church bore witness that Mary the Theotokos died without sin, and remained a virgin throughout her life. Biblical prophecy (Isaiah 7:14) and early Church witnesses (St Ignatius of Antioch's letter to the Ephesians 19:1; Saint Justin Martyr's dialogue with Tryoho the Jew 100) Even if you want to use verses like where Jesus Christ mentions his "brothers" such as in Matthew 12:47, the verses are never explicit that these are biological brothers or that they were birthed from Mary's womb. In fact if you read the next few verses you will read "But He answered the man who told him, “Who is My mother, and who are My brothers?” He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, “Here are My mother and My brothers! For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven is My brother, and sister, and mother.” (Matthew 12:48-50) Mary the Theotokos was both literally and pastorally Jesus Christ's mother because she birthed him and did the will of the Lord God, by not sinning and being a faithful virgin.

[@iggyantioch]

Gen. 3:15 - we see from the very beginning that God gives Mary a unique role in salvation history. God says “I will put enmity between you and the woman, between your seed and her seed.” This refers to Jesus (the “emnity”) and Mary (the “woman”). The phrase “her seed” (spermatos) is not seen elsewhere in Scripture. Gen 3:15 / Rev. 12:1 - the Scriptures begin and end with the woman battling satan. This points to the power of the woman with the seed and teaches us that Jesus and Mary are the new Adam and the new Eve. John 2:4, 19:26 - Jesus calls Mary “woman” as she is called in Gen. 3:15. Just as Eve was the mother of the old creation, Mary is the mother of the new creation. This woman’s seed will crush the serpent’s skull. Isaiah 7:14; Matt. 1:23 - a virgin (the Greek word used is “parthenos”) will bear a Son named Emmanuel, which means “God is with us.” John 1:14 - God in flesh dwelt among us. Mary is the Virgin Mother of God. Matt. 2:11 - Luke emphasizes Jesus is with Mary His Mother, and the magi fall down before both of them, worshiping Jesus. Luke 1:35 - the child will be called holy, the Son of God. Mary is the Mother of the Son of God, or the Mother of God (the “Theotokos”). Luke 1:28 - “Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you.” These are the words spoken by God and delivered to us by the angel Gabriel (who is a messenger of God). Thus, when Catholics recite this verse while praying the Rosary, they are uttering the words of God. Luke 1:28 - also, the phrase “full of grace” is translated from the Greek word “kecharitomene.” This is a unique title given to Mary, and suggests a perfection of grace from a past event. Mary is not just “highly favored.” She has been perfected in grace by God. “Full of grace” is only used to describe one other person - Jesus Christ in John 1:14.Gal. 4:4 - God sent His Son, born of a woman, to redeem us. Mary is the woman with the redeemer. By calling Mary co-redemptrix, we are simply calling Mary “the woman with the redeemer.” This is because “co” is from the Latin word “cum” which means “with.” Therefore, “co-redemptrix” means “woman with the redeemer.” Mary had a unique but subordinate role to Jesus in salvation. Eph. 1:1; Phil. 1:1; Col. 1:2 - the word “saints” (in Hebrew “qaddiysh”) means “holy” ones. So Mary is called Holy, the greatest Saint of all. Luke 2:35 - Simeon prophesies that a sword would also pierce Mary’s soul. Mary thus plays a very important role in our redemption. While Jesus’ suffering was all that we needed for redemption, God desired Mary to participate on a subordinate level in her Son’s suffering, just as he allows us to participate through our own sufferings. Luke 2:19,51 - Mary kept in mind all these things as she pondered them in her heart. Catholics remember this by devoting themselves to Mary’s Immaculate Heart and all the treasures and wisdom and knowledge contained therein.

[@andyontheinternet5777]

@@iggyantioch Gen 3 is NOT talking about Mary at all, it is talking about Jesus, the seed of the woman (Adam's wife, Eve, in this context).

[@georgepierson4920]

@@andyontheinternet5777 Actually, it is. You Protestants just don't want to accept it.

[@georgepierson4920]

@@andyontheinternet5777 Genesis 3:15. Mary is the New Eve.

[@hoopoe3093]

Jesus & his mother were both righteous people. They used to eat food, therefore, they had to answer to the call of nature. So, how could they be divines❓😮

[@AlexStock187]

"The Ancient Church ALWAYS venerated her." Is there any evidence of such veneration in the first 200 years? I guess you might be able to count the Protoevangelium as that.... What about the first 100 years then? How can we confidently claim the first hundred years of Christianity included veneration of Mary?

[@oogaleeboogalee6522]

"Under thy protection" is a 1st century hymn to Mary

[@DiMacky24]

1st, 2nd and 3rd century churches were also covered in icons of saints and the Theotokos.

[@AlexStock187]

@@oogaleeboogalee6522 The hard evidence is, at earliest, from the 200s.

[@AlexStock187]

@@DiMacky24 I don’t know about First Century, but there is certainly iconography from very early. But having iconography and the disposition/act of veneration are not coterminous; having Icons in the buildings doesn’t mean they were venerated like they are today.

[@thehammared5972]

>Asks for evidence. >Is given examples from first three centuries >Moves goalposts. Hymns and Iconography in and of themselves ARE veneration. You don't just write beautiful hymns about someone if you don't love and honor them. Here's some Scriptural support and argumentation. Christ told us to honor and venerate His mother (though not the exact phrase "You must honor My mother.") Exodus 20:12 "Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee." Christ fulfils the Law, so He would have honored His mother (Duh, God loves all His creation, of course He would love His own mother. Can't believe that needs to be argued.) At His crucifixion, what did Christ say to Mary and John? John 19:26-27 "When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home." He entrusted Mary to John to be his own mother, therefore John would have loved and honored her from that point on (though it should be without saying at that point in life he already would have, without needing Christ's declaration). Right there is an example of an Apostle honoring Mary and the remaining Apostles would have done the same. Logically, if the Apostles were instructed to and so did honor Mary, don't you think all Christians should? To take a more theological approach. Who and what are we as Christians? Members of the body of the Church (eyes, ears, hands etc. as Paul said). What is the Church? The Bride and Body of Jesus Christ. Who is Jesus Christ's mother? The Holy Theotokos Mary. By deduction, Mary is also the mother of the Church, ergo OUR mother. We must bless and honor her! If you want to argue with Scripture, go ahead. If you want to move the goalposts and say the evidence that Hymns and Icons of Mary existed during and immediately after the Apostolic era isn't enough, then buddy, you better abandon protestantism and Christianity altogether, because sola scriptura is completely, 100%, undeniably untenable by those same standards.

[@amsa3245]

Birth- giver.

[@leofranco1199]

God has no mother. You guys idolize mary and make her equal to Jesus, which is blasphemy.

[@oogaleeboogalee6522]

If Mary is not the Mother of God, who is Jesus Christ? No, it is not idolatry to admit her role was important as she gave birth to the savior of the world.

[@johnnyd2383]

That is called Nestorian heresy and is under anathema since 5th century.

[@sird2333]

John the Baptist is more worthy of veneration than Mary

[@PomazeBog1389]

Compare how Zechariah received the news from the Archangel Gabriel concerning Elizabeth's conception with how the Virgin Mary reacted to the news of her conception .

[@johnnyd2383]

Theotokos Mary is New Eve. Through the First Eve, fall of mankind came. Through the Second Eve, undoing of fall came. That is Mary's role in the Lord's plan of salvation of a fallen mankind. St. John is Forerunner, his task was to prepare ppl for a coming Savior. Both had their respective important roles and we do not rank them by importance. Both are great before Lord and both a worthy of veneration.

[@sird2333]

@@johnnyd2383 Eve caused the fall of mankind. Mary simply gave birth to the Savior. Then her role was done. John the Baptist made the way for the Lord. He is more important than

[@NavelOrangeGazer]

They are both the "highest" saints in the Church and the closest to God.

[@YourStylesGeneric321]

​@@sird2333Mary simply gave birth to the savior? She simply was chosen by God to bear God, to raise God so he be could our savior. She simply preformed the greatest act a human has ever done or will do on the face of the planet minus Jesus Christ.

[@costealucia5357]

''Higly venerated'' ''full of grace'', showing respect doesn't mean to pray to her or to images that portray her .Christianity should not venerate and pray to icons or statues that are there to assosciate them with saints etc.

[@yecksd]

no, we shouldnt pray to icons or statues. we should ask the saints to pray with us to God, though

[@NavelOrangeGazer]

To "pray to" means "to ask" these language games are ultimately fruitless.

[@TW-fs3fj]

7:36

[@yecksd]

i doubt you would think that Kind David was wrong to venerate and bow to the Arc of the Covenant when praying, or that it's wrong to bow or kiss the cross/Bible.

[@tsfnope3286]

"concerning the charge of idolatry icons are not idols but symbols, therefore a Christian venerates an icon, he's not guilty of idolatry. He's not worshiping the symbol, but merely venerating it. Such veneration is not directed at the wood or paint or stone, but the subject depicted or what it represents. Therefore relative honor is shown to the material object (or person), but worship is for God alone." -St John of Damascus

[@costa328]

What absolute nonsense. First, she's not the first Christian. You can easily say that Joseph was the first Christian. Another point is if Jesus words mean anything at all, Jesus said there's none greater that is born of woman than John the Baptist, so stop all this folklore. I left this dead-end religion 24 years ago because it always takes the glory of God away that only belongs to him and gives it to others. Praying is praying. If a hindu does it, you would say it worship . Pure heretical teaching. Twisting words . Repent

[@matthewnovak7351]

How can you argue that Joseph was the first Christian?

[@costa328]

@matthewnovak7351 Why not ? You're making outlandish claims so anyone can say anything that is not in the bible and claim it's true. Why not tackle the issue I wrote about John the Baptist and what Jesus said about him. Because it then takes all the glory that you give to Mary Away from her.

[@bamaantman]

@@costa328all the glory goes to God because it’s His Church. Everyone that is venerated gives Him glory because of what God has done in the lives of His saints. Without Him, they would have never attained what they did in their lives. All of them give Him the credit. I’ve never read of one who didn’t as you claim.

[@matthewnovak7351]

@@costa328 I have made no claims. I only asked you a question. It seems obvious to me why one might say that Mary is the first Christian-because the angel Gabriel delivered God’s message about Jesus to her first, and she accepted it faithfully. Joseph receives a message also and keeps it faithfully, but it’s not until after Mary. Simple as that lol So please give me your reasoning from scripture about why Joseph or anyone else would be called the first Christian?

[@costa328]

@matthewnovak7351 I'm not saying joseph was the first Christian I was pointing out who cares who was first , it actually goes against everything Jesus said about being first or greater. EO always goes outside of scripture to defend their traditions. Otherwise, it all falls apart .