Why I will never own an Amazon ring camera - indoor cloud cameras are a bad idea

[@Ankky22]

15:00 Why is it our job to look into what you decide to promote, shouldn't that be your responsibility?

[@rossmanngroup]

Because you're the one that has to live with the consequences of your decisions, not me. I have to live with the consequences of my decisions. This is why I do not outsource my decision making to people on the internet with video cameras; particularly when those people are compensated with 4 to 5 figure piles of cash for 90 second video integrations telling me to buy something that they have not even tried. Rather, I make the decisions for myself. I suggest you do as well.

[@Ankky22]

​@@rossmanngroup Most people in todays world don't have the time or motivation to thoroughly research everything they buy, and it's unrealistic to expect that. IMO it's morally wrong as a content creator to promote whatever pays the most. Whether you like it or not a lot of people on the internet trust what you say, and if you choose to promote a new crypto coin for example, a lot of your loyal viewers will fall for it. Many content creators here have a policy that they only promote something they believe in and trust, and viewers generally trust sponsored segments more than they would trust a regular advertisement, at least I do.

[@rossmanngroup]

They're full of shit and I genuinely mean that. They're telling themselves that to feel better about taking the bag, in my opinion

[@Azarilh]

@@rossmanngroup I mostly agree. But considering how gullible are people, content creators still have their share of responsibility when it comes to what they decide to advertise. There's a reason why NordPoop is so popular. It's especially bad when people are idolising a content creator, which is super common. They would believe anything the creator say. In that case the creator has responsibility due to their powerful position.

[@Leaky-bunghole]

it's a suggestion. he is suggesting that you not just take his word carte blanche but should feel free to research on your own to determine if his promotions are worth your money. jesus christ are you really such a dense contrarian?

[@RJ-ye4jr]

"Punishable by a fine" essentially means "legal for a fee", especially for multi-billion dollar corporations.

[@Smart-Towel-RG-400]

Yup unless the fine is like 150% of the revenue made from the bad deeds it's just a added cost of doing business

[@kxuydhj]

at least the EU does some decent fines. i'm pretty sure willfully breaking gdpr article 5 means a fine up to twenty million euros or twenty percent of annual revenue, whichever is higher. imagine amazon being fined a straight 20% annual revenue, they'd be in some pretty hot water.

[@BriannaLearning]

This is capitalism, companies can buy the politicians to get lose regulations also they're just a bunch of modern day kings that are doing bad stuff and when they actually get caught they aren't held accountable

[@someguy7819]

Don't enough fines result in jail time or is that just for plebeians like me?

[@tsundokujim]

A $30m fine, otherwise known as Bezos' pocket lint. Unless a fine is large enough to be a threat to a corporation's share price, its just a cost of doing business. Fine AMZN $300b and you'll see their behavior change overnight.

[@rossmanngroup]

When you do the math based on market cap vs. individual net worth, this is kind of like fining me a few dollars.

[@tsundokujim]

@@rossmanngroup It reminds me of the old saying, "When the punishment for a crime is a fine, it's only a crime for the poor."

[@kabirkumar5815]

@@rossmanngroup What do you think of GDPR? I'm surprised by the teeth.

[@schemage2210]

The problem with fines is often they are capped! It might be very possible that $30m was the most that could be fined, which leads to the problem as you say where the business doesn't care!

[@mikafizz1022]

​@@tsundokujimwho said that?

[@saigyl9149]

once again, it's the big company that is at fault for predatory behavior, not the small independent repair shop

[@kabirkumar5815]

I think a system that makes such things profitable is a cause in itself.

[@Winter-n7l]

Yeah, an independent shop never screwed anyone over, right? Been on both sides of that big rusty metal D!ck myself.

[@AshtonSnapp]

Remember: outdoor cloud cameras are also a bad idea. IP cameras should be LAN access only. If you want to access them while not at home, you should set up a secure VPN tunnel to your home network. Sadly, people will pay anything for convenience, and usually don’t want to have to set things up. Most people don’t even want to set up their new phone. Source: I sell phones at Walmart under a third-party company. I’m not supposed to turn the phone on, go through the setup process, or even walk them through setup, unless they’re buying it via contract.

[@steve_1507]

Exactly what I think

[@Yasin33]

💯 but unfortunately a lot of people aren't tech savvy like that

[@josesardinas7660]

This is extremely important, and yet people prefer "convenience" over common sense. Just thinking of your day-to-day going around home being stored in someone else's server "in the cloud" where they will "take care of if safely and privately" should be enough to tell you how "good" things are going to be for your data. Consider yourself in some sort of reality show WITHOUT BEING PAID, but instead paying to be on it... 🙂

[@captainheat2314]

​@@josesardinas7660 even when you pay they will still look at it or find a way to sell if its not something only you control

[@sihamhamda47]

​@@josesardinas7660 Always remember that "The cloud storage is just someone else's computer"

[@Marco_Onyxheart]

This is why I think that every smart device such as a doorbell must be able to be configured to depend entirely on self-hosting.

[@Smytjf11]

Please God, yes.

[@pieceofschmidtgamer]

Or just don't use smart devices...

[@siral2000]

I tried to find a decent video doorbell about 5 years ago. I couldn't find a decent one that didn't have some kind of cloud requirement that turned off, what I consider, basic features. The reason everything goes through servers now is so you don't have to port forward or worry about that device being hacked because it's exposed to the internet. The first reason is to allow the device to be used by people that don't know how to setup a router. The second is so they can skimp on security for the device and put it in their server instead. Or at least that's likely the excuse they use. If you can, just setup a security camera DVR with motion flagging and put a normal camera by the door. Forget about knowing who is at the door when you are away from home. Keep the thing blocked from the internet. Local network access only. If you must have it access the internet, pick something relatively secure but not well known. (Open source software is usually good for this.) Hackers target devices a lot of people have so their effort is rewarded.

[@luketurner314]

@@siral2000 What about a self-hosted, open-source VPN (eg. OpenVPN) as the single Internet access that needs to be secure?

[@siral2000]

@@luketurner314 It would definitely work. However I have no idea how secure home VPNs are. I've never used one so I don't know much about them other than their basic purpose. Personally I wouldn't feeling comfortable setting one up without restricting what LAN devices could be accessed through it. Maybe using a 2nd nested router where most of your devices are connected to. While the primary router/VPN host is connected to the security system and any other device that you want to access through the VPN.

[@khajiit8221]

You have to minimise your exposure to all this technology. I'm not saying we ditch all modern tech, but just limit use of it, keep using old school ways of doing things that work just fine. Personally I liked tech circa 2005. There were no stupid apps for EVERYTHING. I had a desktop PC, my work was done at the end of the day and my work phone was off outside office hours, I had more freedom and privacy and I loved it, I owned things and was happy!

[@Seasniffer69]

This! Tech before the APP takeover was phenomenal. I didn't have a smartphone until about 2012-2013 purely because mobile browsers sucked at the time and everyone was switching to app usage vs online mobile browsing. It's equalled out now but TOS has us signing all our digital rights away and not a damn thing we can do a side from refusal to agree.

[@did_I_hurt_your_fee_fees]

I prefer the technology of the mid to late '90s. We had computers but they weren't good enough to spy on every last little thing we did. Smartphones didn't exist and society operated just fine without them. As far as I'm concerned if I woke up tomorrow and computers of every single kind were gone, I'd be okay with it. I'd learn to live with the inconvenience. That inconvenience was called everyday back in the '90s and nobody seemed to care

[@Seasniffer69]

@@shaggyrogers3784 I kinda agree. In the 90s the consumer electronics were very meh. But even dating back to the 70s-80s, the war chest had some very very high speed electronic warfare. Everything we're using electronically is a locked OS watered down consumerable version of some piece of tech the govs had built for decades If you go back and listen to special forces vets talk about stuff they used and can legally talk about, it's insane. I bet they have 3d image scanning just off Bluetooth and WiFi frequencies alone, right now.

[@Seasniffer69]

@michaelscarport this I can agree with. If they funded the mobile browser instead of apps it would be really good. All the apps do is give away access to you're entire phone. Why's a app want my contact list and access to my entire phone? It shouldn't. It can run of aloooot less. It's all data harvesting for advertisers.

[@LowJSamuel]

@Shaggy Rogers When you really think about it, the average consumer does nothing with their devices today that wouldn't be perfectly possible with 90s hardware, with the exception of video quality and the physical size of the device. Yet modern software is so bloated and unoptimized that top-of-the-line hardware is required to do even the same basic stuff we have been doing for decades. And nowadays they force those unoptimized, buggy software updates, which makes your own hardware unusably slow for no benefit to you. My second gen fire tv stick, for example, is unusably slow. The hardware isn't degraded. I'm not asking it to do anything more than the day I bought it. Factory reset does nothing. They force software updates that slow it down, so your only choice is buy a new one.

[@RobKMusic]

I'm blown away that in 2020 someone could still brute-force a password for a service operated by a multi-billion dollar company. I used to run a small hosting company from 1998-2015 and I STILL operate a few servers for personal use. Among many other firewall and security measures, I've always blocked certain countries from access out of the gate and perma-banned IPs after (undisclosed) failed login attempts. Seriously... they fired 1000 passwords at this and nobody noticed AND they got in?!?! Unreal.

[@brainthesizeofplanet]

So much for offering a product to improve your security.... Social Media and Cloud is one if the worst things happening to mankind in times of peace - social media bring out the worst of of ppl and cloud leads to ppl not actually owning what the pay for

[@Instantout]

out of curiosity, Software used/name? wanted to create a small host (for myself) might aswell ask someone that knows more.

[@daexion]

That's what happens when the billion dollar company buys another company for already existing and hardware and doesn't bother doing any oversight and the smaller company continues operating as they had previously.

fail2ban is pretty simple. But I always hated admins blocking whole geos forcing me to use VPN.

[@RobKMusic]

@@Instantout Sry, didn't see this. It depends on what hardware you have and what you want to do. For example, if you have a Mac and a fixed IP address, apache webserver is built-in. Get it running and put up a website. Register a domain name on GoDaddy or something and point it to your server. You can also install PHP native on MacOS (not sure about Apple silicon, I'm still on intel and it's been a few years). Don't know anything about a Windows-based server. Haven't had one since NT and .ASP was a thing 20yrs ago. Back in the olden days. I had hardware servers on a server farm... I can't remember the physical provider. They handled the physical hardware and I would handle the OS. I could just SSH/FTP in to do my business, but I could install WHATEVER I wanted on them. Since the early 2000s it's been some flavor of Linux, with WHM/cPanel to manage the server and my hosted clients. Without knowing exactly what you want to do, there's a million configurations and ways to do things with some being more optimized for specific purposes than others.

[@tgheretford]

If you put a camera in someone's private property and catch someone intimately, it's voyeurism and you can expect to go to jail. If a corporation gets you to put a camera in your private property and catch someone intimately, it's not voyeurism but "data gathering to improve your service experience and security" and not a jail-able offence.

[@me-myself-i787]

Difference is, the property owner chose to put the Ring doorbell there, whereas if you sneak a camera somewhere, the owner didn't consent. If you get someone's permission to put a camera in their home, it's legal.

[@thephoenixking1086]

Finally, someone who made a video explaining these terrible sponsors. Many, MANY of them have been proven to be scams or low quality, VPN's for example are BS because they do not work (since companies can use Browser Fingerprinting which a VPN cannot hide) and so on. I always skip these sponsors and I wish KZbin would ban them to an extent, they are annoying as hell.

[@rossmanngroup]

Yeah, the misleading ads piss me off too. What bothers me the most are the people that say that it's no big deal. Those _influencers_ just want to feed their families. You feed your family off of doing hard work and providing people value, not screwing people with endorsements of items you cannot verify to people who trust you. Some of the biggest creators that were shilling ring garbage were worth over $20 million. I have NO sympathy! As lame as it sounds, and as weird as it is, you people trust me. Why is beyond me, but you do. For me to abuse that trust by recommending you stuff that you nor I have any way to verify for ourselves does what it says it does would be an abuse of my position. Yes, they have bills to pay, and so do I... it'd be nice to get $6,000 here and $10,000 there to shill some random garbage. If our culture adjusts just a little bit in the direction of people being more careful who they take on as a sponsor, would that really be a bad thing?

[@first_last01]

KZbin revanced, sponsor block extension for browsers. Don't remember the last time I watched a sponsor segment

[@tseikkisnelkytkaks9013]

VPN's work very well for various purposes, it's just that they're not the do all end all -security they're marketed as. You actually need to know what you're doing and where your data leaks out from, they're not the consumer-level security that should be sold to my grandma as such.

[@sunderkeenin]

yeah VPNs are a very limited and incomplete tool. I use Mullvad because I benefit from better routing to their endpoints(situational, will not help everyone), region-lock bypassing, and I play games where weirdos are present which have some(often unmentioned or simply unknown) peer to peer functionality and/or danger of IP grabbers, so I'd rather not have randoms with my actual public IP. That's all a VPN is good for. Opsec is far more than a VPN.

[@DavidParathyras]

SponsorBlock is the solution

[@DanPutih]

I have a blink camera pointed at the cats litter boxes labeled "poop cam". I bet all the amazon employees were sorely disappointed when they reviewed all the "poop cam" clips.

[@waltersteenvoorden252]

Ah that was you... nice pussy! hahahahaha

[@icedirt9658]

Some of them were probably pretty happy to see a cat.

[@draconightwalker4964]

thats shitty viewing. lol

[@jmazz1127]

Why????? Why in the name of god would you have a camera pointed at a cats litter box?

[@mikoaj2323]

​@@icedirt9658 Exactly, could've been worse

[@dyingculture1]

Both Google and Amazon also have a company policy to give your video to the police without a warrant and without owner consent.

[@Lord-Kanzler]

it's pretty much every big tech company that wants to get away with making profit without paying taxes. apple are pulling the same crap.

[@Drak976]

I remember someone got a charge because their smart water meter or heater or something reported them using several hundred gallons of water late at night that I guess they used to clean the crime scene.

[@TwoBs]

@@Drak976 Oh, of course Google deleted my comment. Again. Heaven forbid you copy and past a small excerpt from PUBLIC DOCUMENTS with redactions to everything about an interesting case. Apparently every home in that area is hooked up to a smart meter lol. I bring that up because your comment insinuates that the resident bought the meter, but it’s actually the company’s for city water. Nothing the residents can say or do, doesn’t matter how off the grid they think they are - they’re monitored regardless if they use city water. I’m sure there are many other areas just like that being monitored in the same exact way across the country.

[@Nexalian_Gamer]

@@TwoBs So if you have a well then you're good?

[@electricindigoball1244]

You are correct that KZbinrs shouldn't accept sponsorships for products that they themselves can't validate. It's one thing to get sponsored by, for example, a computer peripheral manufacturer because it is feasible for you to test their products and be reasonably confident in the quality and the risk for people buying them is relatively low (at worst they'll get a mouse or a keyboard that breaks sooner than expected). Since you can't test a cloud service in a similar manner you should never put your name/brand behind it.

[@DovidM]

This is obviously the case when it comes to cloud services or VPN. But it carries over to things like coffee or meat by mail. Even if they’ve tried the coffee or meat, the content creator doesn’t know all the products their sponsor offers or whether they have poor customer service.

[@TR-rz1xt]

@@DovidM I fell foul of this with a content creator (I once trusted) when they were sponsored by a supposedly Japanese knife manufacturer. Wasn't remotely authentic and I got hassled endlessly for months afterwards. Won't fall for that again and it ruined my belief in the content-creator's integrity.

[@Cheepchipsable]

Not really practical though. How many people who advertise stuff in general have a clue about the product they advertise? Would you expect the company to open the books to a random influencer then take them on a tour of the facilities, which the influencer probably has no clue what they are looking at? It's not a reasonable proposition.

[@electricindigoball1244]

@@Cheepchipsable My point is if you can't validate the product then you shouldn't advertise it. It doesn't matter if the inability to do so is because of the company being uncooperative or you not having the required expertise to do so. People advertising stuff not having a clue about the product they advertise is exactly what shouldn't happen. Does this mean 99% of sponsorships for products that depend on an external server (cloud services/devices, VPNs etc) shouldn't happen? Yes, that's exactly what this means.

[@adamdunne6645]

​@@electricindigoball1244so if a KZbinr uses a product, likes it and gets offered to advertise it... They shouldn't? Just because they don't have the expertise to audit the product and company? That's wild

[@trikstari7687]

I remember when this shit came out I immediately pointed out what a terrible idea it was. People called me paranoid.

[@ambiarock590]

My brother once called me out for saying I would sell my 2022 car immediately if it ever started showing me ads. People are becoming so normalized to privacy breaches, everything they own becoming billboards; it depressing.

[@tyler558806]

yeah but really scary commercials told me that giving my access of my data to local company could result a specific person stalking me! In reality giving access to multi-million dollar businesses just result in thousands of people stalking me at any place, any time, and all under their anonymity and without my knowledge.

[@MRW2276]

It's kind of like Norton these days. The Virus scanner is as bad as a virus. It's just a matter of which creep has access to your computer.

[@MercenaryTau]

Remember when people were concerned about wire taps? Nowadays people are rushing to fill their homes with 'em.

[@Demopans5990]

The Stasi would be pleasantly surprised at this development

[@powderypastor1242]

@@Demopans5990 For real... People are very quick to throw shit at authoritarian regimes, yet their behavior enables them so easily.

[@mason2874]

It's also pushed upon the masses, TV's w/ assuming as$!5tantns

[@ronsmith4325]

Cloud cameras have always been a hard no from me... not to mention, for what they do, they are often way overpriced. Nothing wrong with an old 1080P DVR based camera system that is wired, private, and can only be accessed locally via the LAN, when connected to the LAN via VPN, or by physically looking at the LCD monitor connected to the DVR.. but of course, everyone these days wants convenience and zero barrier to entry, so this is what the masses get. Additionally, why anyone in their right mind would put an internet-connected camera in their bedroom, their children's bedroom or bathroom is beyond me.

[@Drak976]

Exhibitionism maybe? If people want to watch me take a #3 that's their eye scars not mine.

[@MrZedblade]

Amazon's response was, to borrow a recent phrase from Star Trek, "Sheer f*****g hubris." Their employees and contractors were caught being peeping toms, looking inside people's homes trying to find naked women. They literally committed a predatory sexual crime. And their response is along the lines of we did nothing wrong and just want to pay this stupid fine to put this behind them. My house is covered in Ring camera (all outside) and Amazon's response alone makes we want to rip every one of them off the wall. Not to mention they also share private videos with the police without the owners consent.

[@rossmanngroup]

They said they disagreed with the FTC but didn't say how or why they were wrong. When someone says you're wrong but won't tell you why or present any real defense... that is usually telling.

[@the_chomper]

youre the idiot who puts their home address in the forms. you know where amazon thinks my camera is? in the middle of a forest preserve. also what idiot puts WEB CAMS IN THEIR HOUSE!????

[@DeezNuggz]

do it rn

[@illegalopinions4082]

They make you want to do it, but you _haven't._ Actions speak louder than words. Now that you've said that every second they remain in your home is a further justification for them to continue to act the way they do. They _know_ you won't do anything and will take it like a chump, so they will continue as they have.

[@MyVanir]

Makes you want to do it or made you do it? Because if you don't, your outrage is worth as much as a fart.

[@theonlywoody2shoes]

As a retired Pentester, I stopped being surprised by 3rd party organisations that would circumvent the security access controls they had been granted by the parent company they were working for, “to improve their productivity”. Let’s not even mention a SCIF that was breached by a Wi-Fi link installed by a contractor who was fed up with having to clear security when they wanted access.

[@MrSkeltal268]

This lack of proper account permissions setup (a violation of several security controls) is so rampant in the industry.

[@demonpride1975]

see this is the problem, amazon or whoever owns ring, should not be allowed to give permissions, that should only be allowed by the customer.

[@ambiarock590]

Cuz why spend extra money on security when all you have to pay for is a lawsuit later? It's so bad and rampant with late stage capitalism.

[@florianschmidt5844]

True, but also this is just part of the problem. The unencrypted videos should never leave your home in first place. If Amazon wants to store it on their servers, then they had better end-to-end encrypt it and allow you to check that nothing unencrypted leaves your home. Of course they would never do this. Not only to allow creeps to watch it, but also it makes perfect training data for the next who-took-the-chocolate-out-of-my-fridge AI.

[@sp1nrx]

While the ring cameras are a concern no one discusses what "Siri" an "Alexa" are hearing. These devices are always on and transmitting and therefore listening to conversations and activities. I have been educating my family the anything left "on the cloud" is in reality putting data on some other hard drive not in your control.

[@shanoukgaming6763]

Glad to see you made a video about this. I have tried to tell people for years that Ring was doing this kind of stuff. Every person I know that has ring cameras tells me "There's no way that's happening", "They have no reason to look at my videos" and "They don't have access" etc.

[@Cheepchipsable]

Anything stored off site or requires a subscription is not worth it.

[@jonathanryan2915]

Being in my 40's and growing up with very little privacy, (especially for a 90's kid), I just can't understand how people are so comfortable with being watched 24hrs a day in your own home. Even if it was really secure and anly you could access it. I just don't understand being comfortable while always being recorded by cameras

[@SensuAudica]

Verisure, the home alarm company did this exact thing, sharing videos and photos among employees in the office. NEVER trust anyone else access to your cameras.

[@pineappleroad]

I wonder if they enjoyed watching me sat in a cafe having a hot chocolate (i was in a cafe a few months ago, and I spotted they had a verisure alarm, which had camera motion detectors (like standard motion detectors, but with a camera added)

[@anonamus604]

Just gonna send this to my roommate who can't comprehend why I don't want security anywhere inside the perimeter of the property

[@CutoutClips]

Security is good. Security cameras that are connected to servers you do not control are not.

[@jeremiahbullfrog9288]

Smith & Wesson still provide the best interior security.

[@lycanhd]

My Blink system stores everything on a 256MB flash drive. I don't subscribe at all.

[@jeremiahbullfrog9288]

@@lycanhd Did you have to connect to an online account to provision the Blink device? If so, they're able to capture packets.

[@pineappleroad]

@@jeremiahbullfrog9288 i also discovered that when you use the app to access the footage, it is literally pulling the footage over the internet even when you are on the same network (internet outage is how i know that) The batteries in one of our doorbells have run flat (or are so low that the doorbell keeps dropping offline), and i have no intention of replacing the batteries (and i will be taking them down when i get around to it, not just because of the amazon issues, but also the batteries lasted only a few months)

[@knucklestheechidna5718]

Louis, You're one of the last real ones left. Never change

[@thedarkgreenvanman]

Speaking of shilling can I get an affiliate link to the chair you use?

[@rossmanngroup]

Chair: amzn.to/3MjLrnT

[@thedarkgreenvanman]

@@rossmanngroup lmao you’re a legend thank you!

[@DMahalko]

Mr. Clinton Amazon chair review: A+++ would claw again

[@DmytroIelkin]

How much does Mr Clinton take for clawing mine?

[@Jadebones]

Hell yeah! I want an exclusive "Clinton'd" Armchair!

[@Mr.Unacceptable]

I have an 8 cam CCTV system but I'd never ever put it online. I'd also never record the inside of my house. Everything is recording you in public now and there is no push back which is crazy to me. We are creating the authoritarian state spy device by spy device.

[@qwqwe3037]

What brand do you use?

[@kuniokun9117]

got any brand recommendations?

[@Smytjf11]

And don't forget, now AI can be monitoring everything in real time. If we don't now, we will very soon have our own personal spookbot

[@AngryReptileKeeper]

And your average schlub is so enamored by convenience that they don't even care.

[@Araretoy]

I remember in the early 2000's doing a google search for certain key phrases and finding IP cameras all over the planet. Some public. Some private. On some you could even pan/tilt and zoom the camera around via the web Interface.

[@PaulaXism]

Did you find the one in the engineering dept of Melbourne Uni?.. They had a cracking New Years drinks party in the "lab"

[@Boogie_the_cat]

Amazon screwed up everything possible on those Ring cameras. And then they crippled them by requiring Amazons cloud service subscription. AND they're overpriced. I took one apart once,and it had the smallest image sensor i've ever seen outside of a cellphone camera. Embarrassing

[@salty_flightdeck_cpo]

Bezo's yacht didn't pay for itself. 🤣

[@spartacus8567]

@@salty_flightdeck_cpo its kind cute that you think he only has ONE yacht, lol

[@salty_flightdeck_cpo]

@@spartacus8567 I was focused on the one that is comparable in size to a Burke class Guided Missile Destroyer.

[@teetea7734]

Jesus man, I'm glad I quit Geek Squad when I did then. Ring cameras were one of the most common delivery/install jobs we'd get and it didn't help that we were pushed to try and sell customers more of them on the same visit. I never realized just how shady Ring was until recently. Hopefully more people pick up on this and uninstall these compromising devices.

[@acesidewinder]

Appreciate the video letting us know about this Case. I specifically avoided Ring because we've seen time and time again this issue happens with Cloud connected cameras/microphone recordings. I'm happy with the NVR brand I purchased because I know it's all locally stored and the footage is easy mp4 format. We just setup the doorbell a couple weeks ago and it basically has all the functions of Ring and so far we're impressed with it.

[@elenabob4953]

How can you? Didn't you see all of those funny video with what pet's do in your house when you are away or how the push the buttons so they could hear you etc

[@demonpride1975]

also the fact that now amazon is giving police your video footage when they ask for it, because it may or may not captured a crime in progress, so even tho amazon owns it, they are now still just willy nilly handing out your video footage, so nothing has been learned from this.

[@MimisTreasureCottage]

I have a camera from another company that only hook up if I leave on vacation. I agree with you wholeheartedly. I will never have a smart thermostat or smart door locks for the same reason.

[@leonidas14775]

If you can't install your own OS/firmware on a device, you don't truly own it and can expect to have your privacy violated.

[@angelachouinard4581]

I took a programming class with a couple of guys I figured out from casual conversation worked at NSA. On realizing I figured out where they worked they gave me several useful security tips. Number one: Keep outside connections to the absolute minimum.

[@drozcompany4132]

Let's not forget that Amazon devices can talk to each other on their own mesh network, so even if you don't connect yours to the internet, it can get access through your neighbor's camera.

[@falovmalor7337]

I am so glad you you brought this to light! Thank you for having integrity 💯

[@tramsgar]

All this MUST have been known to all employees ALL the time. STILL they used the cameras themselves in their own homes and got spied on by coworkers!! ... explains a lot.

[@reav3rtm]

Buying and using camera that your company is producing is nothing strange. If you work in R&D it gives you options normal customers don't have (in ex customise firmware to your liking). Problem here is access to customer data. It should be in need-to-know basis only but it's not. Employees are not the problem, lack of access control is.

[@lucass8119]

It is truly wild to me that no employee's came forward with this information. We've become so desensitized to privacy invasions. If I was an engineer and I had access to all that video, you best believe I would go to the local library, print and copy a report, and send it to every news outlet I could.

[@smason]

Your point on how people view the cloud is spot on. When the cloud appeared on the scene as a product for the masses it was viewed by most as someone else's computer, but over time it became (only half-jokingly) a magical place in another realm with wow and wonderment replacing any security concerns. And see how easy it is to use! Amazing what a bit of marketing can accomplish.

[@Cornz38]

Remember, YOU are their product. You make money for them, your data is worth a great deal. Protect it.

[@sammyg4765]

Best video I have seen on this channel yet, excellent reporting Louis! We the people thank you for sticking up for us!

[@DJdoppIer]

Yeah, any security system that needs to connect to the cloud is an instant no for me. It just introduces an unnecessary weak point that can be exploited. And by "exploited", I mean by a hacker or by the company that made the system, both of which can have bad intentions.

[@AC3handle]

How much you wanna bet Amazon doesn't use Ring cameras for their own security.

[@daexion]

Why would they? Ring cameras are a consumer level product, not an enterprise level product.

[@flameshana9]

@@daexion missed the point.

[@waterbottle4782]

@@daexion even on Jeff Bezos house I doubt you would find one.

[@mac1991seth]

I never understood people saying "this is victim blaming". I think there are some things you just shouldn't do, not as a matter of avoiding risk, but basic, reasonable precautions. Saying "this is victim blaming" basically stumps any opportunity for self development and growth as it dismisses the lesson that should be learned. No matter how painful the lesson may be.

[@AngryReptileKeeper]

Yep. There comes a point where your own poor choices are what got you into a bad situation. At the end of the day, it's YOUR job to ensure your own safety, and it's YOUR job to avoid knowingly putting yourself at risk, because you can't control what other people do. You can only control your own actions. I don't feel bad for the people who got peeped on by the Ring doorbell in their bedroom any more than I do for some idiot who gets mugged while walking alone through a bad neighborhood in the middle of the night- which is to say not at all. Choices have consequences.

[@flameshana9]

What do you mean I'm in the wrong? All I did was put a camera in my kid's bedroom. What possible harm could come from that? Adults like this need help, not to be coddled and protected from feeling sad.

[@slashess69]

The lesson to be learned is not letting companies run completely wild in new tech without regulation or oversight from elected boards lol

[@KmanAuto]

What are your thoughts on SimpliSafe's cameras? I didn't like the idea of it being in the house, so I keep it in the garage so I can check remotely if I forgot to close the garage door...again...

[@JustAGenericGamer]

I only have external cameras from Ring right now. I've been aware of their security practices (or rather, lack of) for a little over 1 year now. I almost have enough saved up to get new IP cameras and purchase the equipment to locally run my own security system that requires zero external connections. No cloud connection, nothing. I can't wait. Yeah, it will cost 3x more than the Ring cameras themselves, but at this point the subscription has offset the cost savings the Ring cameras had. I cannot wait to switch.

[@colinreece3452]

As a side related issue I also bock off my webcam on my laptop, you can get little sliders that cover it or just put tape over it, they cand nad have been hacked.

[@pieceofschmidtgamer]

My general rule of thumb with sponsorships is that If I see one I take it as a guide as to what NOT to buy.

[@MechaNintendoMast]

Seriously. I was trying to think of a single one of these that isn't crappy or at best inferior to some alternative not paying KZbin people to to push it.

[@pieceofschmidtgamer]

@@MechaNintendoMast Mind you, there are exceptions. Basically, if I haven't heard of a company or their product/service outside of KZbin Sponsor slots it's a no-buy for me. Because companies like Intel or AMD or Asus do sponsorships as well and I'm willing to consider them if I were actually in the market for what they were selling, but that's not really because of the sponsorship.

[@MechaNintendoMast]

@@pieceofschmidtgamer That is true. I wasn't even thinking of those because I don't see them. Generally I meant the typical misc stuff, mobile games, apps, random household products, gimmicky tech, services and etc

[@luvenstein1852]

​@@MechaNintendoMast I only got suckered into buying from one youtube sponsor. And that was Displate, they make metal wall posters. Good stuff, some great art, came with a really high quality free sticker. Little pricey, but not crap or a scam, and I don't know of any companies that do similiar products for cheaper.

[@mrlox9576]

The general rule is, if a camera connected to the internet is pointed at you, assume your being watched. So if your not willing to get naked/changed in your front yard for all your neighbours to see, then don't put a camera in your bedroom, don't put a camera in your bathroom, and for god sakes, don't put a camera in your kids room. Internet connected camera's should only be used around the outside of your home, and only if setup for remote access with a vpn. NEVER INSIDE THE HOME!

[@eggi4443]

that's why I'm so paranoid about phone cameras. I had them taped for a looooong time

[@mrlox9576]

@@eggi4443 there's nothing wrong with a healthy dose of paranoia, especially where it's warranted (ie; anything with a camera connected to the internet). 👍

[@cttommy73]

I would question people putting a camera at all in their private rooms like bathroom and bedroom. Put it outside. This is like having a security camera wired up in these rooms and then knowing that there will be people who see it, give surprise Pikachu face.

[@Old-Skull.]

YOU ARE DOING IT VERY WELL LOUIS , KEEP IT THE GOOD JOB.

[@MrAryindia]

This is the second home in which kzbin.infoUgkx0jZ_lGlDVJhDnmagEU8gn47cmfPNlLQU we've replaced our "regular" doorbell with a Ring video doorbell and we really enjoy it. It is very easy to install and it works very well, with a clear picture through the app and good in-home use (we added the chime, which is also easy to install and doesn't require another thought to use).

[@Gocunt]

you didn't listen

[@BusinessWolf1]

My philosophy on trusting ads is, I've never in my life needed a product that I didn't explicitly search for, researched and came to a nuanced opinion on why one option works best for me over the others. In general, deciding on anything that can access my home network in any capacity is like 10 times harder than any "dumb" product. Also, the fact that they're making us call objects with extensive internet access smart and anything else dumb is fuckin genius marketing.

[@dannymitchell6131]

Ring cameras don't need internet to send pictures to amazon, they have radio transmitters that poll surrounding cameras till it finds one with internet. Just don't use them at all, plenty of cameras that can be used locally or offline completely.

[@reav3rtm]

Bandwidth of BLE (Bluetooth) or LORA (GSM frequencies) used as fallback in distress (no WiFi) mode doesn't have sufficient bandwidth to upload anything meaningful. Besides, after 10 minutes of lack of WiFi, Ring cameras reboot.

[@Tobez]

A reason I will never buy anything that funnels video of my property into a cloud environment. People really put A LOT of trust in these companies. Blows my mind

[@LutherMahoney]

Would CCTV be a better choice than Ring TV?

[@stephensiu5799]

Definitely not going hard on people promoting but you have made people aware of what goes on behind the closed door!

[@AngryReptileKeeper]

Who would've imagined that people willingly bringing wiretaps and spy cams into their homes would have negative consequences? If I ever get a camera system for my home, it'll be a CCTV setup hooked to an independent computer with zero Internet access.

[@Xander1Sheridan]

we do it without thought. It is a control freaks dream. We give the enemy access to our every waking moment and we pay for the ability to let them do it.

[@TheShadowPerson.]

Just keep audio recorders.

[@CarrotConsumer]

I'm sure that will help catch a theif.

[@TheTransporter007]

Many, if not MOST of the VPN companies are front companies run by various 5 eyes/3 letter agencies.

[@nobodydoesithalfasgoodasyou]

I saw survey results a couple of days ago (Cato Institute) saying 29% of American adults under 30 support mandatory in home government surveillance cameras 😱

[@aevangel1]

That is absolutely horrific and disgusting.

[@cjthebeesknees]

I’m calling horse 💩 no way that’s accurate or not blatantly manipulated statistics.

[@GabbieTheFox]

This is what I have to keep telling clients almost every single day ad-nauseum... There's so such thing as "The Cloud", it's just a fancy term for "Someone else's computer" and most of the time you don't even know who that computer belongs to, where it's located, how well it's maintained or who has access to it. But very few clients ever listen then end up calling me or the company I work for all shocked and surprised when files they put on "The Cloud" get stolen or leaked or when they get locked out of "The Cloud" because they used one shitty password for everything and some bad actor got that password, logged in to their account, changed the password and revoked their access.

[@Black_Jesus3005]

So, any good Channels on how to set up your own surveillance system?

[@rossmanngroup]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/hYTIiqCBoMelnqs kzbin.info/www/bejne/roiZn6ZpmdKkeqs kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y2HQnX-leNSkqas Classic, but still great!

[@elusiveruse832]

@@rossmanngroup Axis is not a solution for home surveillance.

[@theotherserge]

@@elusiveruse832 what is? (Not being snarky, genuinely curious)

[@justme5384]

I'm using Reolink with 4K cameras and 8 "channel" NVR. Have it hooked up to my LAN on it's on VLAN and it doesn't have access to the internet. It works from my home network and my phone if I have my VPN active to my firewall (Watchguard XTM 510)

[@NSFWHarold]

Rule #1: Don't bug your own house. No cloud cameras indoors, at least. Even having them outdoors can be a vulnerability, as it can document when you are not home. The CSI episode writes itself. Unfortunately, as long as we have no way to disable - like with a hard switch - the camera and microphone on our cell phones, we can only protect ourselves so much.

[@wachsmalstift]

just don't use a cellphone or run something like graphene os

[@RiukuCresent]

A good Rule #2: If it is waiting for a key phrase, it is *always* on. Consider that before getting into Cortana or a similar service. There's a thing called Permissions buried on your phone. A good idea is to look through that and turn off anything that looks too much. There's even some apps that can be turned into asking every time, or at least only while on that app specifically.

[@rossmanngroup]

even with a switch to disable the microphone in your phone, if someone wanted they could listen to you through the vibrator. the vibrator is a speaker. a speaker can be used as a microphone.

[@ohsweetmystery]

Hard to feel sorry for people paying for themselves to be spied on, esp in intimate locations.

[@SantosOverlord]

wait my phone is off, is it still like on safe mode or something

[@bankruptpensioner]

On your side with this video Louis you are absolutely right on all points

[@pittuk6500]

they're building overlord botnets...think about 1 million Teslas on the road - all scanning license plates at all times all around them. Tesla knows where every car in the US is at any time, in real time... allowing them to map movements of everyone in the country, with unlimited historical data.

[@rob-toolsandtech2521]

This is just one more reason I’m ditching Ring. Mine is outside my front door, so this aspect isn’t as concerning for me in my case, but it’s a concern in general. The biggest reason I’m ditching Ring is because I shouldn’t ever have to download and install an update just to view the camera. I heard a noise outside, and was unable to view the camera until I updated. I understand there is a small chance I could get some malware or get hacked until I update, but that is insignificant in comparison to hearing noises at night outside your door.

[@ChadAV69]

Someone needs to educate the masses on how this kind of stuff works. Like.... why do you need a cam in your bathroom anyway?

[@roam2rome414]

to post on onlyfans. Duhh

[@fonesrphunny7242]

"Educate the masses" ... sigh Everybody knows what a physical virus is, yet many people still don't understand the importance of AV software. It's always the same: people only start paying attention once something has happened to them. We'll always be at least one decade behind in education. Doesn't help that 'edutainment shows' spread half-arsed information, which get easily misinterpreted by people who have no prior knowledge.

[@Simat_0]

Thank you, finally someone say what the cloud really is, ''someone else computer somewhere in the world, wich you aren't the admin of''

[@fersunk]

That's why the tech enthusiasts have smart home devices but the tech workers only have a printer in their home. I have nothing "iot" in my house.

[@tbote]

You sir have integrity. Respect. Thank you for sharing this info.

[@finnishview2933]

This video made me finally click subscribe. Keep up good work Louis. Thank you. ps. right to repair should be world wide law!

[@rossmanngroup]

Thank you!

[@Azf12]

I have a deep mistrust for *any* corporate-sponsored program claiming to "enhance security" without you having to lift a finger. Even moreso when it's a big company like Amazon which is infamous for cutting corners and not really ensuring the highest quality product. I'd rather things stay nice and analog, not needing to worry about things connected to my phone or what I am to do if my internet suddenly drops out for whatever reason. The future is wifi, and it's being hosted on someone else's computer.

[@tonysolar284]

Never trust the Cloud.

[@Slugbunny]

I forget which youtuber said this, but I'll always remember the message: "KZbinrs are charlatans, they have no idea what it is they're selling or what it does." This was regarding VPNs, I believe. It's one thing if someone's a technician or a researcher and they start a KZbin channel to show their work (HVACR and city planning are my current favourites, still love computer and phone repair). But if someone's an influencer first (new word for "marketer"), they're simply a face *just* appealing enough to *just* enough folks to convince an audience - and so were snake oil salesmen. Their copy and pitch are worthless, non-information (or even disinformation).

[@krash2fast99]

This would be so easy to fix internally... Customer Service Reps/techs have no rights to access any footage by default. When a customer opens a case, the specific customer account and relevant cameras are noted in the ticket. When the ticket is created, rights are given to the assigned tech for the footage only while the case is open. No access to footage from any of the customer's cameras not at issue, no access to other customer's footage.

[@johnsamson9680]

But then how would they look at your penis?

[@Cwirpc]

You are not going at the to hard, keep at it and thank you for informing the public.

[@maddsua]

Why is it always Amazon involved?

[@travisminneapolis]

A lot of content creators ARE expert users (or paid customers) of Ring or Nord VPN though, so as a consumer they feel like an expert rather than some random they have never used. Expert users though, not Expert engineer or actually an expert in security. It's like if you Drove a Ford Focus and they sponsored your channel. You don't know that their transmission sucks, you're not an automotive channel, but you do drive and love your Ford Focus Turbo. So you pitch it to your audience.

[@50shadesofbeige88]

Yeah, my in-laws looked at me like I was crazy when I told them I set up my own cloud and DVR. Who's laughing now, Linda?! 😂

[@Walkeranz]

Thanks brother. I appreciate your integrity

[@asdfdfggfd]

Would love to know how to identify small little cameras that dont require a subscription to work...

[@H1pok0ndr1ak]

Fing the app, has a feature to discover cameras... it is a paid for thing, but I believe you get 30 day's free

[@johnm.4141]

I completely agree people that sponsor bad companies should be called out.

[@1cncguy]

I have my indoor ring camera in my living room that randomly comes on, i know someone is spying on me. I give them the 🖕 then it quickly shuts off. So yes they are watching! If it wasn't for my dog I wouldn't have the spy camera.

[@film2240]

Great video Louis. I never realised people put Ring indoor cameras in the bedroom or even the bathroom. Why would people think placing a Ring Indoor camera in the bathroom is a good idea? I'm not a great fan of cloud services due to my own experiences with them being hacked. I no longer use iCloud to back up my photos and other content. I use a useful backup device called Qubii Duo, which plugs into my charger so I can charge my phone and back up my stuff at the same time. All my stuff is safely backed up onto the Qubii Duo's MicroSD card. I save money and time doing this. :)

[@maxnits9556]

I went to an interview for a C++ developer position at Ring here in Lviv, Ukraine back at 2018, the team was rather small, several dozen people. I lacked Network development skills and wasn't invited, but I'm glad it turned out this way because I didn't know how f-ed up those people were!

[@thomasr7129]

This was entirely appropriate. People need to know - and many need a wake up. Keep up the good work! :)

[@MeriaDuck]

Treat every camera as if it is a window from outside.

[@xdanbo1859]

Amazon needs to be broken up. AWS (Hosting/IT), Ecomm, Security, no one company should control this. Very dangerous, NOT to mention, Amazon controls one of the supposed a newspaper of record on a national scale. How the government let this much power concentrate in one organization. - But I suspect they want it that way. - Louis you are doing a public service with these videos. Thank you.

[@AmauryJacquot]

I use a ubiquiti device, which connects to my controller, within MY network...

[@YuraBoyko]

I like this video because it is informative, i never knew before of this accident. Still, even if i don't own any internal cameras, i have a laptop and a smartphone, and who knows if those devices are spying or not.

[@UnfortunateWatcher]

“No logs” lol bullshit. They all have logs until proven otherwise.

[@jeremiahbullfrog9288]

And even after proven otherwise, they still have logs. They just did a good job hiding them.

[@skelafeti]

Glad I'm not the only one that feels this way. Been looking for a security camera that doesn't save to a cloud or have any interaction with the company selling it is very far and few.

[@allanlemosbr]

GTA V - Cloud Computing Radio Ad The future is now the future is in the cloud cloud computing GIRL: what's cloud computing? Imagine a computer you share with everyone imagine your private data spread around the world being shared equally with everyone it's the cloud GIRL: I'm in the cloud! It's utopia nothing can possibly go wrong imagine instead of your own computer it's a giant one we all share together your data is safe it's in the cloud! GIRL: Everyone is in the cloud! Life like surrounded by the mists of time with cumulonimbus computing the cloud is hard to describe you can't see when you're in it and when you get close, it disappears GIRL: Where the cloud go? Now when your data is damaged you don't need to fire the IT department you can fire the Internet GIRL: you're fired Internet! We've taken the metaphor to extremes because when you're in the cloud the lightning won't strike it's cumulonimbus computing GIRL: I'm really in the cloud! You are in the clouds now! kzbin.info/www/bejne/b3izYX56qt-aeMU

[@thetechdudemc]

Data being damaged? Guess they predicted OVHCloud

[@felenov]

I have 130+ surveillance cameras in my system. All of those are Axis cameras that are on a network that is airgapped from the internet. The only thing that has internet access is the VMS server cluster that runs software I wrote. The only way to get to my Radiant server from the internet is through a WireGuard. The only place where the video and the archive goes is my VMS server. And the only people that get access to the video is me and those who I directly give credentials to

[@testaklese]

Even ignoring the security flaws, they face the street and I can't even walk around my block without being recorded. They're completely unacceptable. There should be a law requiring that your camera only cover your property. I honestly HATE these things.

[@Seasniffer69]

Understand public property and those laws. It's absolutely ok as long as their property can be visible in the camera as well. They can't have one pointed in a specific spot away from their domicile, and not have any of their own property being in the shot

[@testaklese]

@@Seasniffer69 no, it's not OK. It's legal, but it is NOT ok

[@Seasniffer69]

@@testaklese bro it's legal AND it's ok. Apparently you do NOT live in a sketchy part of town nor ever have. I had cameras that purely watched my sidewalks but since my front yard was in the shot it's to catch trespassers and people who let their dogs shit in my yard.

[@testaklese]

@DRJoinRumbleStayFree idk what you're doing on this channel and with that username if you think that that type of public monitoring is OK. "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty" I for one am strongly opposed to being recorded the second I walk out of my house by my own neighbors. Or what about when they record you in your own home because the high-res cameras are pointed across the street on every other house? I don't care how bad the neighborhood is. It's not ok.

[@AngryReptileKeeper]

You have no legal expectation of privacy in a public space. If you're walking down the street, you're fair game for being recorded.

[@insanitycubed8832]

I have a pretty good security system. The alarm is the loud ass door, and doorknob. The deterrent is me, and a lot of metal

[@kamo7293]

i think this obsession with smart everything will be the death of us.

[@answerman9933]

Skynet agrees.

[@AngryReptileKeeper]

Nah, AI will. Smart tech will just be the death of freedom and privacy.

[@ambiarock590]

I will never get a smart camera, nor will I ever get a smart speaker. Having a microphone and a camera connected to the internet is just an immediate red flag.

[@georgescott4505]

S.M.A.R.T. is an acronym for Specialized Military Armaments in Residential Technologies.

[@TheSoulCrisis]

I was using Amazon Blink cameras at one point and discarded the setup due to this reason, a proper security setup NOT connected to the cloud is ideal. Only place cameras outside, in hallways, and kitchen covering entry/exit points imo.

[@mr.grotto]

I don't mind cloud storage. If it allows me to control who sees it. If they frequently audit their server providers or use their own servers. If the company has clear and strict rules regarding how they abide and protect user data from law enforcement and regulations. I'm pretty sure this company doesn't exist.

[@Demopans5990]

It does. It's called using your own hardware and doing some IT stuff based on googling But the people that goes through doing that aren't buying spyware to begin with

[@mr.grotto]

@@Demopans5990 that isn't the point I'm making.