Rotating Lateen Rig, ( similar to Asian sailing rigs, i think )

[@RulgertGhostalker]

New Video On It : kzbin.info/www/bejne/hae7g4uDar9kmdk

[@kenwebster5053]

No, you don't mount the spar on a bolt because you need to be able to lower the spar to furl the sail in bad weather, or change the sail for a storm sail or for repairs etc. So the spar is raised via a block & tackle from which is swings freely so it can rotate vertically as well as horizontally to tack, sail against the wind, reach across wind or sail downwind etc. If you mounted the spar on a bolt, the enormous twisting forces that the wind applies to the spar would simply split the spar timber through that hole, then you & your boat would be washed up on the rocks someplace and be pounded to death there by the seas. In a real lanteen rig, the sail and spar remain on the same side of the mast. On one tack the sail fills away from the mast, on the other, the wind blows the sail onto the mast, which spoils its shape somewhat. So, the boat sails somewhat better on one tack than the other. Alternatively, you can use a double ended hull that moves equally well forward or reverse. You put the mast in the exact middle and mount the spar at its exact middle and make a sail that is symmetrical. Then you have a steering board at both ends of the boat. This way the boat can tack simply by sailing in the reverse direction from the previous tack & reversing the slope of the spar so the old tack becomes the new peak & the old peak becomes the need tack. That way the sail remains blowing away from the mast on both tacks. Either way is not particularly efficient, sailing about 60s deg or so to the wind at best, but lanteens are very fast reaching or broad reaching across wind. The most efficient sail rig is a sloop carrying a taller rig which can sail about 40deg to the wind. But having a tall and narrow rig, limits the sail area that the boat can hold upright, so they are not as fast off the wind as a lanteen. Every design option has it's pros and cons. The lanteen rig does very well exploiting the seasonal trade winds for seasonal trading across the oceans. They are not great for voyaging in adverse seasons against the wind. Though they can do it given time and effort. A square-rigged boat is the fastest downwind though, as it can carry the most sail area. But square-rigged boats can only make progress upwind each time they change tacks form one reach to the other & only in fair conditions. In heavy weather, square riggers are a maritime disaster waiting to fetch up on a lee shore.

[@RulgertGhostalker]

it's just for a small skiff concept ....I start talking about the rig 7 minutes in here. kzbin.info/www/bejne/hae7g4uDar9kmdk

[@RulgertGhostalker]

I mean if you have time to watch it, I would appreciate any feedback in post ... that's idea with it at this point, is just to get thoughts on it and start conversation.

[@YeisenAchitel]

I like it... slight mod... pull up on block and tackle on the front of the mast... level each spar end runs to the bow... the clew double attached, run aft port and starboard each... on starboard weather pull the starboard bow line throwing the port side up high... adjust port sheet, starboard sheet wrapping around the front of the mast, port bow line running high kinda like a preventer...

[@RulgertGhostalker]

i may have unraveled an ancient chinese secret ... maybe?

[@TheBoatRambler]

Thanks for this! It looks like it would be possible to try on a small boat. On a big boat the weight of the yard itself would make it harder to handle. Regarding going downwind, the sail could be left against the mast, it doesn't have to be forward of the mast. Just a reinforcement patch ( or a cut out) so the sail doesn't wear out near the mast . It would be way better than manually force the yard and twist the ropes. it wouldn't make any difference going downwind, and our lateen rigged boats around here sail downwind with the sail like that some times as they don't dip the yard. Check this video here at at 6.30 kzbin.info/www/bejne/oZPRiZSOmNKshas Cheers, Teo

[@RulgertGhostalker]

Thank You, Teo, for leaving your expert advice on the down wind maneuver........i just got done watching your "Best Of Princesa do Tejo" and i agree it's probably not for boats that big.. it would be nice, i think, if the boat was small enough that one person could lift the spar into place on the axle..

[@RulgertGhostalker]

but i will mention my first thought, that the axle should be fixed to the mast portion.....then just a threaded nut, holding the spar in place on the axle..

[@RulgertGhostalker]

the rotating spar forces wouldn't be balanced. on a tack, or gybe, it would pull line when a cleat was released, for half the flip, and the other half flip it would fight you. so i think just take the ratchet out of an existing winch, give the loop as many wraps as the winch will take, and leave just enough slack to trip the cam cleats..

[@RulgertGhostalker]

the sail would be like an Equilateral Triangle, it could be a deck skimmer, ( close to "deck level" ), if you just plan on gybing down wind, ( which is how i would do that ); because the sail just moves over the top of you.. so one side of the sail could be almost as long as the boat....probably about 3/4 to 7/8 the length of the boat, and shifted forward.... the trick would be the reefs.

[@RulgertGhostalker]

lower center of gravity, and lower center of effort on the sail....so it would not heel as much. an equilateral triangle has all the same length sides, so once you know the length of the side parallel to the water, ( relative to the boat length ) then you can calculate the sail area.. and the spar axle would be 120 degrees to the mast.

[@markpalmquist]

Cool!

[@bobcornwell403]

There is a huge chance that the pivot bolt will: Pull.throuh the spar, Fail under tension, or Bend the walls of a hollow spar. It would be very difficult to make it, that part of the spar, or even the top of the mast strong enough.

[@RulgertGhostalker]

New Video On It : kzbin.info/www/bejne/hae7g4uDar9kmdk

[@RulgertGhostalker]

start about 7 minutes in on the new video.

[@RulgertGhostalker]

feel free to leave any design feedback on the new video comments. ( after watching the video ) Thanks.

[@johnryan2193]

Eric, check out the Romy rig ..

[@RulgertGhostalker]

yeah, I did know Romy rig .... this is different, to see how, start in about 7:00 on my video *ROTATING SPAR SKIFF ( a new kind of sailing rig )* ....it's the only rig that can employ an Asymmetrical Airfoil, ( very powerful low air speed lifting foil )

[@wisenber]

That looks like a Gibbons Rig variant. Gibbons used his for a shunting proa.

[@RulgertGhostalker]

Ahhh. I found it, Euell Gibbons in Hawaii in the 1950s ....I have seen those rigs before, I just didn't know what they were called...my spar doesn't hang down from a taller mast on ropes though, See my Video here Titled: " Rotating Spar Skiff " , if you can get through the first part, I go on to explain the rig.

[@wisenber]

@@RulgertGhostalker Gibbon's additional lines were more of a byproduct of traditional proas having their masts supported from the windward side. Your model excels in its functional simplicity. The comprise is that the mast being at the center of the spar requires a proportionately taller mast than a dipping lateen rig. Then again, all rigs are compromises.

[@RulgertGhostalker]

@@wisenber i couldn't think of a shorter mast per sail area...i don't think you understand yet, did you see the video?

[@RulgertGhostalker]

@@wisenber start about 7:50 into the video here... kzbin.info/www/bejne/hae7g4uDar9kmdk

[@wisenber]

@@RulgertGhostalker If a mast is connected one quarter or one third up the spar versus 50 percent of the spar, the corresponding mast height is lower as the percentage of the spar is smaller. Of course the mast has to be located further forward as its height decreases, and there are limits to how much of a spar is unsupported.

[@canotbreton2416]

and the problem of the stays?

[@RulgertGhostalker]

the stays will be very short; because the mast is short, and only goes up to the center of the spar.. the sail even goes over the heads of the occupants when tacking or gybeing :)

[@RulgertGhostalker]

i am designing a skiff hull along with the rig; so be patient, i will have the video posted as soon as i can.

[@RulgertGhostalker]

the Skiff design is 4.4 meters LOA, and 1.7 meter Beam ... i am trying to make it a really good design; and so it could be molded, if a company wants to pick it up.

[@RulgertGhostalker]

" NO AUDIO ( my video editor is crap ) ROTATING SPAR SKIFF" has been uploaded to my channel .... the design went fairly well, better than the video.

[@KlingonCaptain]

More of a triangle version of a square rig...

[@RulgertGhostalker]

start 7 minutes in on the new video on it kzbin.info/www/bejne/hae7g4uDar9kmdk

[@canotbreton2416]

CILICIA have a "Herodote sail". A symétrik *a la trina * sail.

[@RulgertGhostalker]

in the video: " CILICIA. Clip " they also show it rigged with foresails, on some headings ....a way to add sail ... with my thought, i had to think of a way to reef, because the sail runs the length with the rotating spar.

[@RulgertGhostalker]

though my thought would not work on such a large vessel ... it would have to be small enough to lift the spar onto the mast axle.

[@canotbreton2416]

See the start. The sail turn, front the mast. Out of the wires. And there is no prop. ................ With lateen sail, the wires are out the sail. It's impossible to turn around the mast. Show that in your démonstration. 🤚

[@RulgertGhostalker]

i would have to make a better model... but it will work with the idea of the Mast Axle & Spar Bearing.@@canotbreton2416

[@RulgertGhostalker]

Did you see my New Rotating Spar Skiff video yet ??? it would be good to get some feedback and thoughts on it.

[@canotbreton2416]

bonjour go and see vidéo of the armenian boat "CILICIA";

[@RulgertGhostalker]

amazing ship ... it is so difficult to find videos on sailing rigs like that, Thank You. the idea i had is different than a Lateen rig though, in that the spar does not move around as tied off to a mast. the Mast Head has an Axle, ( 60 degrees forward from vertical; or 30 degrees up from horizontal ); and the spar has a bearing in the middle, which slides over the axle ( the sail being an equilateral triangle ) the main difference being the mechanically constrained rotation of the spar. ( then it's just one rope loop controlling the spar, and it's more consistent )

[@RulgertGhostalker]

the main advantage, ( of the spar rotating on an axle ), would be that a port reach would be just as efficient as a starboard reach .... the sail wouldn't deform against the mast, one way or the other.

[@RulgertGhostalker]

i did think to make a mast head weldment ... a welded steel masthead, to which the axle, and hounds, are also welded. it would press fit over the top of the mast, and be pinned through .... like the head of a shovel is attached.

[@RulgertGhostalker]

i could do a CAD, ( computer aided design ) model ....i have no way to animate, but maybe able to rotate the spar manually; to show the tack, or gybe, motion.

[@RulgertGhostalker]

my CAD workstation boot disk is not being recognized as a boot disk .... i usually shut down, at the end of a day, but this last time i clicked "Sleep". now i can't work on the skiff file until i figure out what is wrong.