Rough Justice - The Case of the Confused Chemicals 1983

[@spanishpeaches2930]

This was always a really interesting programme from a time when tv was actually worth watching.

[@DHTCF]

I loved Rough Justice. Probably part of what set me on the path to the bar

[@09weenic]

To purchase a drink ?

[@DHTCF]

@@09weenic well, I had to eat dinners to get there!

[@TheImmortalPetal]

I grew up on the Lawe Top. It has always been part of the conscience here that it wasn't Ernie. I wasn't born until 71, so don't know anyone personally involved, but he was always seen as a scapegoat.

[@charleyduh-4481]

my grandma and great aunt are on here! its unthinkable to think about what happened

[@CARLIN4737]

From what I understand Mr Clarke served 14 years. His appeal got thrown out and he died shortly after being released.

[@marksc111]

Fuck that's sad

[@sashaboo72]

That seems to be the case so often. I just watched another episode about a lady, (Mrs Livesey) she was imprisoned wrongly of murdering her son and died within a year of her release.

[@philipskalla4312]

@@sashaboo72 The case of Margaret Livesey is one of the worst miscarriages of justice, but she died 22 years after her son was murdered.

[@philipskalla4312]

That is, about 12 years after being released.

[@philipskalla4312]

According to a workmate of his, he died in 2000, thirty years after the murder.

[@09weenic]

Fuckin hell that woman was cutting rags for 23 years !

[@dmgsoultogetherness6667]

yup and he just switched off her machine without really asking unreal..!

[@sashaboo72]

Can you upload more Rough justice episodes like this one from the early years? x

[@WENDIE34C]

Eddy Dawson was my dad he found that the year I was born.... he's passed on now .

[@323v6]

I knew a lass who lived right near those tanks, she grew up with nightmares after someone told her about the body Aye ye said he'd passed wavy last time I seen you, how ye deein?

[@WENDIE34C]

@@323v6 I get she did

[@WENDIE34C]

@@323v6 oi oi long time no see how are u

[@323v6]

Wendiewoo_nd_trubblethedog boss mother aye alreet just chillin ye kna with me dog ;)) how's your clan lol?

[@323v6]

Can I talk to ye aboot summit ‘woo woo troubledog boss mother’ lol Some name that mind 😂🤣😂

[@williamchambers4587]

This is an obvious stitch up as far as I'm concerned. What evidence did the Police really have? Well as far as I can see Ernie worked at Velva and he had vaguely known the girl and that's it! There was nothing to link him to the crime of murder or the disposal of the body. What of the estranged girl's Father of whom worked on many sites both at home and abroad as a tank cleaner? Did he ever do any work at Velva? Was he an angler who may have known how easy it was to access the site? In any event in his professional capacity he would have certainly been knowledgeable regarding the types and sizes of the tanks and access hatches etc therein. I am not suggesting the Father is in any way guilty of this, I am merely suggesting that the evidence against Ernie is pathetically inept, poorly investigated, and biased by false evidence such as the industrial wipe /item of clothing similar to a type of clothing that the girl may have worn and was said to have been cut from her dead body, and was presented to the Jury as an evidential artifact of this crime, this, despite of the fact that the documented and forensic evidence would quite clearly show that this industrial wipe / piece of clothing had no relevance to the investigation, and yet had formed a major part of the case against Ernie. There are many unanswered questions that this program , that because of various constraints, the program makers could not go into. For example. What was the motive for the killing? Was the girl pregnant at the time of her death? What was the date of the last positive sighting of the girl, of when she had died, to the time of the discovery of the body remains and had she been in the tank for the whole of the interim period? Where and when was she dismembered and what tools had been used to cut her up, and where were the body parts wrapped? How was her body / body parts transported to the site? Was the site operational constantly 24/7 I ask this because as Ernie went off shift, his co worker came on shift? How many people including contract workers and drivers of all descriptions worked at the site, during the time of bodies disposal and subsequent discovery, and had access to the tanks or knowledge of the operational use of the tanks? Because of the volatile nature of the liquids being stored one would assume that the company would have taken security measures to ensure the safety of the whole of the site. What were the security measures that were in place throughout this period? It is impossible for the viewer to know the length and breadth of the Police investigation and as to what they did or did not investigate, but in my view Ernie, based upon the evidence, should never have been charged yet alone convicted of this crime. This is a true miscarraige of justice.

[@LilysLife-ns4qs]

She babysat for him and clothing was found under his floor boards. He done it alright

[@splinterbyrd]

​@@LilysLife-ns4qs I hear that since release from jail, Clarke has admitted he perhaps knew a bit more about the death of Eileen McDougall than previously thought

[@sheilaanna]

@@splinterbyrdthe only way he was able to be paroled. Initially they wanted to admit to her murder and then he had to continue serving a few more years and that’s when he claimed to know more. I doubt it, I think after 14 years a lot of people would admit that just to get out

[@splinterbyrd]

@@LilysLife-ns4qs Clothing was found under his floorboards?? Where did you hear that?

[@splinterbyrd]

@@sheilaanna Agreed. In the _Rough Justice_ programme it was suggested there was a prowler in the area who randomly attacked girls, on 1 occasion at a house frequented by Eileen, but I've never heard of the police pursuing it. I guess we'll never know who murdered this pretty teenage girl. Whoever he is he's got clean away with it.

[@juliemarshall7913]

Thank you to Tom Sargant for making the changes to a terribly flawed justice system.

[@laurelgirard8475]

How could Police be so short sighted? I mean, other places investigate every piece of evidence, witness statements, forensics, etc. it really sounds like one of the cases where they picked a theory out of a hat and found evidence to support it. Opposite of the correct way to investigate. Investigate all avenues of query and eliminate each one as you go along without making presumptions, etc. Did they investigate the other Velva worker? It’s fishy that he remembered such a possibly key piece of evidence 9 years later. Another reason why police departments need actual Homicide Detectives! It seems like untrained Police try solving cases using unacceptable methods.

[@margaretbanks8969]

I have difficulty remembering what happened 9 and a half days ago never mind 9 and a half years.

[@soylentgreennewdealtimeshare]

For how long have you had this difficulty?

[@JulieLevinge]

He was never released, all on the word of a man he obviously didn’t get on with! Astonishingly nobody asked how that guy suddenly remembered an incident that didn’t happen 10 years later? But they never interviewed him? What a sad joke our justice system is!

[@pamelajohnson6900]

Nine years later I remember something🤔

[@dmgsoultogetherness6667]

they really did a number on her lifestyle in this programme

[@AndyMann-vs3sf]

No

[@garydouglass9577]

Ernie is innocent.. He was stitched up by somebody who also worked their. My bet is a tank cleaner ☹️ but embleton seems He knows more. 🤔🤔And why has the case never been followed up to prove who the real killer is ?

[@mattnolan5527]

ok so you want to do to the tank cleaner what the police did to Ernie

[@shininglightjoi6627]

Any update on Ernie Clarke to date ... Is he still in prison ?

[@hellothere6937]

Ye

[@323v6]

I knew Eddie Dawson's! He told me about this incident They found all sorts cleaning oil tanks

[@WENDIE34C]

Really!!@

[@323v6]

Wendiewoo_nd_trubblethedog boss mother aye lol

[@allisondrummond8417]

I found out 5/6 year ago she was a relative in my family

[@aaarrrggghhhh]

You don't see glasses like that anymore.

[@09weenic]

Thank god 😂🤓

[@soylentgreennewdealtimeshare]

This programme was padded-out with a few flimsy suggestions of reasons why this bloke didn't do it, yet, all that was needed was to say that, under English law, a man can't be convicted where the jury perceives reasonable doubt, and a case based on the facts that he worked at the site of discovery, that there was an association by acquaintance, and on the presence near the crime scene of a garment that she could have chosen to wear, leaves - so the producers would claim - reasonable doubt. One wonders why the defence didn't point out that this could have been a rag, which springs to mind before the visit to the rag supplier. Also, it was not made clear that the defendant knew that evidence would be preserved in the stored chemicals. If another person could panic and unintentionally preserve the evidence in a tank, why could not the accused panic having noticed fishermen? Who would feel more comfortable walking around and upon the structures of the site: A worker or a trespasser? It seems better to say that the case should remove the rag as key evidence and then consider that the accused worked where the remains were found and that he had a strong connection to the victim. The programme implies that a good character is significant, then informs us that the accused was investigated for theft. What did the programme omit that the jury witnessed, and is all of what is left after the torn clothing is removed enough to secure a conviction? Sometimes, it may he possible to prove someone innocent. Here, that doesn't appear to be possible, so the core principle of English Common Law (innocent until proven guilty) is the only resort that is necessary. Just as flawed investigations may focus on the quickest route to conviction of the most likely suspect at the expense of finding the true culprit, others may focus on the exculpatory outcome at the expense of properly limited exculpation.

[@Ligerpride]

The show is made to go to make it clear as to why it is considered rough justice. A show on just to suggest the argument the prosecution used was weak would still not really disprove it as a possibility, but this sort of show in the video does go to that length.

[@beewoo5133]

What happened to Ernie? Is he still in prison? Is he still alive?

[@Heston68]

He died quite a few years back after being released.

[@hellothere6937]

Devastating

[@raerae6422]

An article i just read said police let him out on parole in 2001 but they made him state that he knew more about the murder (i guess so he wouldnt receive compensation and the police wouldnt be reprimanded). R.I.P. Ernie Clarke. I feel for what his family went through too.

[@IvorGrumble]

Let's pin it on the black man.

[@johnmcdonald9295]

There have been that many murds of white people by non whites

[@bascet1]

This Rough Justice doesn't immediately have you thinking he's totally innocent ring that most of the others do? I'm not too sure about this one? I'm not saying he's done it but the evidence doesn't hit you with doubt? What happened in this does anyone know?

[@splinterbyrd]

They didn't come close to proving that Clark _didn't_ do it, but they show the case is so thin against him that he definitely should not have been convicted

[@rje306]

So no evidence apart from he worked there and he vaguely knew the girl is enough for a murder conviction for you!

[@LilysLife-ns4qs]

He didn’t vaguely knew her. She baby sat for him. He knew her well and her clothing was found blood stained under his floorboards of his house. What’s most likely happened is he has came onto her forced himself on her. Or they were expecting a baby maybe and she was going to tell on him so he attacked her to shut her up

[@margaretbanks8969]

He doesn't have to prove his innocent the prosecution have to prove his guilty beyond reasonable doubt. In my opinion there's enough reasonable doubt to acquit him.

[@Ligerpride]

​@@LilysLife-ns4qsthis seems plausible. I wonder would there be any evidence she was pregnant though.

[@323v6]

Aka Albert

[@JulieLevinge]

So yet another psychopath was allowed to carry on spoilt due to inept or corrupt police.

[@daveadam435]

it was Emmpulton !!!

[@hellothere6937]

Y

[@mattnolan5527]

This is clutching at straws

[@adamtzsch]

joe santo “floored”? 😂 Voices aren’t used for typing text.

Ernie was obviously guilty as he was black.....