Ugly is Evil: The Dystopian Legacy of 2000s Makeover TV

Let's break down 2000s makeover TV - and its impact on today's beauty obsessed world! The first 500 people to use my link in the description will receive a one month free trial of Skillshare! Get started today! skl.sh/rowanel...
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CREDITS:
Additional research and scriptwriting by Isabel Moncloa Daly
Editing by A Peschanski and Sparkles*
Videography by Tazmyn-Mei Gebbett
Thumbnail design by Jessica Durand
Interviewees:
Michelle Elman (life coach, author, and public speaker) www.michelleel...
Vanessa Rochelle Lewis (Faerie Princess Mermaid Gangsta for the Revolution, Author, Facilitator, Speaker, Femcee, Performer) / black.woman.blooming
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[@HeyRowanEllis]

✨LIMITED EDITION QUEER MOVIE PRINT✨I'm so so excited to finally be able to launch this beautiful print celebrating the best of QUEER CINEMA in collaboration with brilliant illustrator Filipa Namorado! Check it out here: www.rowanellis.com/store/queer-movie-print Play the guess the movie mini-game here: www.rowanellis.com/spot-the-movies Full list of movies here: www.patreon.com/posts/queer-movie-full-121278584

[@malenawv]

I could only guess 11 movies 😅

[@Olivia-jw5sd]

we need an answer key/movie rec list 😂

[@larissabrglum3856]

I once saw a comment that said, "Bullying makes no sense to me, why you are YOU mad that I'M ugly"

[@Qugoria]

I saw one that said "you can't hate yourself into a version that you love". I think that also applies to others. You can't increase your self love by hating others.

[@Kasia-xl9gt]

Bullying isn't about the target, it's about a person (usually anxious about themselves) who is bullying others. Someone who deems themselves ugly could be perceived as an easy target who, for example, won't talk back to insults, passive-aggressive behavior, etc. That's why there should be consequences for bullying.

[@girlbhindu]

As someone who has a medical condition that has caused facial abnormalities, this is what people always failed to understand. It’s not my fault that you’re upset because I exist, lol. It’s not my fault that I look this way and dare to “expose you” to my existence, lol. It’s like so many people think being ugly is this tragic thing, as if being ugly is the worse thing that can happen to a human being. It’s a ‘YOU’ problem, as in you the ugly person. It’s a problem that YOU have to take accountability for and YOU have to change. It’s an adversity that YOU have to overcome. So, basically if someone treats YOU like crap because of your looks…it’s YOUR fault. That’s insane. It’s insane to me that I’ve had so many people in my lifetime be angry and mean to me just because of the way I look. Or they will pity me, like I’m some charity case. This is not my problem that you can’t just act normal and treat me like a human being. I can’t fix your reaction. You’re the only one who can control your own actions. You’re the only one that can change your thoughts and feelings. I’ll admit it sucks being ugly. But, it’s not because of the way I look. It’s because of how other people treat me. It’s them, not me. They’re the problem, not me. IT’S YOU, NOT ME, lol.

[@neptunite5973]

it's originally a tweet

[@UndeadGirlCyber]

Sometimes I'll think back on my teenage self and think "man, why was I so angry?" - and then I get exposed to the media landscape of the 2000s and the memories come flooding back.

[@UndeadGirlCyber]

The Internet has it's downsides for sure but being able to choose my own video entertainment instead of "having" to watch TV has done wonders for my mental well-being.

[@YondaMoegi]

Friend spotted!!!

[@YondaMoegi]

Also sorry for being excited in the serious comment, I saw you and lost my mind for a couple of minutes

[@UndeadGirlCyber]

Friend!!! Hello friend! :D never apologize!

[@thunder-san1377]

Honestly? This comment made stuff click into place for me. Of course I was a miserable, closeted teenager, I was exposed to a constant stream of mean-sprited garbage.

[@wormworm580]

Ads I got on this video: - whitening strips - hair curler - weight watchers Thanks algorithm, you missed the point! Great video as always 💜💜

[@warumsiehtmanjetztdenalias]

I got an add for yazio, a calorie counting app ☠️

[@beatricepavesi2406]

I know this isn't really the point, but I haven't seen an ad on yb (or anywhere) since I installed uBlock Origin and SponsorBlock

[@MrGameSecrets]

run an ad blocker

[@CaityLouise85]

@@MrGameSecrets Then (unless the person has KZbin premium or supports on Patreon) the creator gets no money which is hardly ethical either

[@h0td0gwater]

I got three make up brands, a hair care brand and an ad for a drug store with Ekin Su the former Love Island contestant.

[@erinlafleche]

I remember being forced to watch The Biggest Loser in an obligatory fitness class in high school. I was the only fat girl in the class, and my friend just sat in the back with me, showing me things on her phone, because she knew there was no way watching this would be good for my mental health. I'm still appalled when I remember that they made a bunch of fourteen year olds watch that in a school setting, where bullying and shame is already so rampant.

[@anzaia2164]

That's a good friend you had! And some bad teachers to allow showing you all that...

[@Silvermoon424]

What a good friend! I’m glad SOMEONE was being considerate of you.

[@berkeleyisonline160]

phys ed classes would fat shame u for "fitness and health" then force u to run a mile without stretching or practice.

[@smrndalodz7182]

@@berkeleyisonline160 I don't get why the US bothers with those classes. Clearly they do not product results, all they do is humiliate the kids who can't do whatever thing is being tested. And it's not like these gym teachers actually provide meaningful, customized training based on your existing fitness level or your goals. It's like being in math class where there's zero instruction, no textbook, just tests that you get graded on with zero feedback.

[@tieflingcorpse9817]

your friend was the GOAT

[@juliavanrosmalen8235]

A video that sort of permanently rewired my brain chemistry but i can't possibly find now because it was on tumblr and how does one find anything online today- was of a girl getting a grey hair pointed out by presumably her boyfriend and she just gives this maniacal grin and excitedly goes "Hag time! Hag! Hag! Hag!" In unhinged glee. And the lack of shame and pure delight at aging combined with the image of the 'hag' as aspirational just hit me. It's a bit of an archetype of power for old women right? A hag has beauty nor youth, but she has no trouble finding herself worthy. Sure she might be feared, but she has no insecurity. She's powerful, and you can't control her. I have sort of internalised the hag chant. Every wrinkle and grey hair, I'm closer to becoming this mythical figure of power, it's exciting. Stand in the mirror and excitedly go "Hag! Hag! Hag!"

[@ConfusedOctopus]

Honestly can't wait to be a hag

[@xXNekou]

we need more of that out in the world

[@KirstyBaba]

This is amazing. Can't wait to go full Hag Mode

[@gondolinamv914]

Hag! Hag! Hag! I love it. I aspire to hag status too, my only problem is loving colourful hair too much. Maybe I'll keep the greens and oranges for now, since I only have a few whites, and then go full hag when it's time

[@seattlegrrlie]

I have gained an excellent Cruella DeVille grey streak and I am just loving it. Hag time!!! Hahahahaha

[@ezra5500]

Discussing the "adult diapers" or briefs is such a vulnerable, and helpful thing. Not only for patients of cancer, but also for other adults struggling with incontinence. I remember seeing ones once at the pharmacy I was working at that were printed with lace and bows thinking how cool it was that they took something that is for disability, utility, and convenience and beautified it. Like people bedazzling their mobility devices.

[@michellekholmatov9562]

I found them SO helpful after I gave birth to my baby. I tore, needed stitches and I can’t imagine using regular underwear for my frozen pads to numb the pain.

[@keppuchini7022]

Snog, Marry, Avoid is literally "God forbid women do anything" the tv show.

[@diphowell]

My hairdresser mother wouldn't let me cut my hair for years because she thought I would look ugly with short hair. What she didn't know then was that as a trans person, having short hair changed my LIFE and i now see such a handsome person. I've been out for nearly a decade now and my mom still asks me if I could grow my hair out again.

[@myceliasystem]

This hit home for me so much. I'm a disabled queer woman who used mobility aids when needed for my dynamic disability. And when I use them I always pay extra attention to look cute. I've noticed when when I chose comfort over looking cute, people treat me very different. When I look ugly because I choose comfort, they look at my like I'm taking up space that I don't deserve. When I look cute, people act kinder, but I become inspiration-porn and a reassurance to them if they ever end up in a situation like mine and need a mobility aid; they don't become ugly or limited. But they don't see the discomfort or what it is costing me energy wise before and after for making this decision.

[@nikkiwilliamson4665]

I remember watching snog marry avoid and getting so confused why anyone wanted to look more boring.

[@HumbleWooper]

I'm from the USA so I didn't even know that show existed till I watched this video today. As I saw the "ugly" women pre-makeover I kept thinking "wow, she looks like a fun confident person I'd want to hang out with" and the post-makeover versions were so... normal. Rowan got it right on when she said they drained all the personality and self-expression out of those poor girls.

[@Tazzie1312]

What Not to Wear was like that, too. Everyone just had to have the exact same business casual style.

[@wingedyera]

I always was incredibly frustrated that they didn't try some of the looks in fits more fitting to their body or glammed up a bit. I could often see how their goth style could be updated so it fit their desire to be more proffessional looking for example.

[@polarknight856]

I used to love watching it to see the before looks and getting to see all kinds of subcultures and fun looks.

[@kinolibby6580]

There were a lot of shows like that back then. Would Like To Meet was the one I found most upsetting. The premise was 3 so called experts would iron out any individuality in a person in order to make them successful at dating. As an undiagnosed neurodivergent kid I would watch it and think 'I don't know how to be normal, does that mean no one will ever love me?'

[@batteredthem]

“Married women gain 15 pounds in the first 5 years of marriage”. Yeah, and you wanna know why? Happy people don’t usually diet, and it’s very common for heterosexual couples to start HAVING CHILDREN within their first five years. And PSA: if you don’t gain more than just your babies weight during your pregnancy, something is wrong. You need to eat more, and your body needs to store some away because that child usually ends up being a vampire on the resources in a woman’s body for over a year after it’s born. The fact that it’s never brought up in these shows- or only brought up negatively- is horrific.

[@rosiejl2798]

Yup my first thought was ofc most women gain 15lbs, most women get pregnant in the 5 yrs after marrage.

[@smrndalodz7182]

I wonder what the weight gain is for me though? I'm sure that it's certainly not 0.

[@saraquill]

I told my mom my post marriage weight gain was worth it. I’m with someone who supports my mental health enough that I have an appetite.

[@batteredthem]

@ that’s amazing! I find it hard to remember to eat and drink water and my partner is really good at helping. We both gained like 15 pounds in the first year of being together, me from eating more regularly, and him from eating my cooking hahaha

[@nervousbreakdown711]

The entitlement people have on commenting on other’s bodies is amazing. I recently dyed my hair blue. I’ve been wanting to do it for months. I was so happy to finally get an appointment. It didn’t turn out exactly the way I wanted, but that was fine. I’d work with it. I had hair dye at home and could manage (I’m honestly just genuinely happy they were able to bleach such thick, dark hair in such a small amount of time). When I tell you the HORROR on all my co-workers the following Monday. Telling me to change it back. Asking me if I had a mental breakdown. Talking in ear shot about how I look. Like…y’all. I think we all need to just calm down about commenting on other people’s bodies (if you absolutely need to, compliment someone’s clothing or hair or something).

[@MilosRoom]

Omg I’m sorry that happened.. literally copy paste your story but mine was shaving my head… and I worked at a retirement home so staff and residents gave me average 10 comments a day

[@mindaurra1525]

Same and all I did was add pink streaks. My boss said “omg is that permanent?” … I was thinking “is anything??? We could all die right now and I want pink streaks, leave me alone”

[@albertlassiter8608]

that sounds like a shitty reaction, but yay for colorful hair! it can be a hassle and cause damage and whatnot, but the dopamine of seeing a fun color in the mirror can be such a boost :) I hope that you rock the hell out of it

[@trudelulu]

All throughout my childhood in the 2000s, I've been called a "pretty face", implying that if my body were smaller, that I'd be "real" pretty and worthy of the desire and love that were being withheld. Fast forward 20 years later, I'm in therapy trying my best to untangle the connection between beauty and worth. SIGH.

[@oooh19]

Well even if someone is thin they can have bad teeth or skin etc so it’s not a guarantee thin is attractive plus if one is anorexic it generally takes a toll on looks like their hair skin face etc

[@Eunoia345]

The feeling that I’m letting people down by not reaching my “hotness potential” haunts me to this day, it sucks

[@crickett3536]

The fear of fat is insane. Growing up, I was taught "fat is bad" so I didn't eat butter or fatty meat, and stuck to carbs like the old dietary recommendations said about grain proportions. I had no idea of many calories I actually ate and no one explained to me in a way I understood why I gained weight. Exercise didn't seem to help, because I didn't understand how me gaining muscle was giving me good weight. I just thought big number on scale equals failure.

[@OMEGA-362]

The market for plastic surgery is expanding but when I a trans person want plastic surgery not to look pretty but to be comfortable with my body suddenly that's not OK

[@Iquey]

Peach. I am tired of the double standard.

[@lenaeospeixinhos]

When The Biggest Loser came out, my husband was very overweight and trying to lose some. We thought there might be some pointers in terms of exercise and diet. We were disgusted. Also, it's funny. We both find ourselves ugly. When he says he's ugly, I'm sure he must be blind because I see how beautiful he is. When I say I'm ugly, he tells me the same. We go about our lives and it doesn't affect us much 🤷‍♀️ maybe we are, maybe we're not. We love each other.

[@saracarlsson7139]

As someone who has had two of my four grandparents die of cancer at relatively young ages, it has really put into perspective for me the privilege of aging. Aging is never going to be a bad thing for me, it means that I can be there with my family and experience life.

[@coolgirlraquel]

this visceral disgust with “ugly” has been the final piece in getting rid of a half-decade long eating disorder

[@thaaahaaa]

I was "elected" ugliest girl of my year in highschool by the boys. Mostly, I think cause I was the one who put the least amount of efforts to conform to gender and desirability norms. I remember the look of pity on the face of the girl who told me that. But it didn't really bother nor distressed me at the time, in fact it gave me a weird sense of pride ..? It's only way later that it hit me that being queer, aromatic and autistic, it was like a relief for me to be deemed ugly by your average high school boy standard, I wouldn't welcome, nor know how to deal with attraction coming from them anyways.

[@johannageisel5390]

Please tell me that the "aromatic" was deliberate. 😄

[@thaaahaaa]

@@johannageisel5390 Maybe I do smell like lavender sometimes...

[@Tessa_Gr]

This feels very relatable to me. I'm aro-ace and kind of always between the thoughts of "I'm so glad I'm ugly", "I'm not really ugly, I look totally tolerable", "I wish I wasn't ugly". I'm so glad that no one tries to flirt with me, I would not know how to react to that. Probably with extreme fear and awkwardness. But at the same time, I don't want people to notice my "uglyness", I've always tried to blend in and I hope people just don't notice me and how I look. I guess it would be nice to be "beautiful", but only in a not very noticable, not attention-grabbing way that just increases respect but not sexual/romantic attractiveness. But that does not exist, so it's better to be ugly than to be too beautiful.

[@Iquey]

​@@Tessa_Grthe "beautiful" that increases respect and not sexual attraction unfortunately is to be handsome. If you are doing the bare minimum for your appearance, you don't have to look manly, but just be well groomed and clean. But you don't really need much makeup to pull off "respectably aesthetically fine" if you don't mind not looking very feminine.

[@lolojsantos]

I was voted second ugliest in middle school and tried not to be upset whilst the girl who was actually voted ugliest couldn’t care less! Was told it didn’t matter and that the boys were being idiots as usual by the girls voted prettiest and it felt like a slap in the face. But years of self-work later and I’m finally truly understanding why that girl didn’t give a fuck. She knew her worth

[@adolan672]

39:38 in high school girls used to make fun of my thick eyebrows, then I got older and larger eyebrows became the trend and I started getting women saying they were jealous of my eyebrows, and now lately I'm seeing the "eyebrow blindness" meme where we're back to making fun of bold eyebrows again 😭 at least it'll switch back again in another 5 years or something LOL

[@blueberrypie1837]

I've always loved bold eyebrows, they're so pretty!!

[@lenaeospeixinhos]

Yeah, I've had friends thin their eyebrows so much they never went back to normal and then it wasn't the fashion anymore 🙄 having body fashions instead of clothing fashions is cruel

[@Desimere]

@@blueberrypie1837 when i was a kid, i even liked unibrows, but society did manage to beat that preference out of me. Maybe because i never see it. Now i like just big and dark eyebrows, and bushy eyebrows on older people look pretty cool. I also like expressive/strong natural eyebrows in pets.

[@blueberrypie1837]

@@Desimere I like when like there's the start of a unibrow, it's stunning

[@fancyorangemittens]

I wish I still had my thick eyebrows. I don't pluck my unibrow anymore, but my autoimmune conditions have made a lot of my hair fall out, including the outer part of my eyebrows. People should just mind their business.

[@TheEternalBeginner]

SO GLAD you made a video on this. Not even 5 mins in and I'm reminded of this quote... “A culture fixated on female thinness is not an obsession about female beauty, but an obsession about female obedience. Dieting is the most potent political sedative in women’s history; a quietly mad population is a tractable one.” ― Naomi Wolf, The Beauty Myth P.S. I love your work SO MUCH, reached out to your team about a potential collab, and you should be hearing about it tomorrow from Izzy

[@kdog3334]

Amazing book

[@justinszabo5205]

@@kdog3334 depends how much u hate trans people and vaccines.

[@justinszabo5205]

probably good to not quote that monster actually

[@warmhoney5829]

@@justinszabo5205 why? I love the beauty myth did the author do something controversial?

[@starlydonati2008]

@@warmhoney5829Having never heard of her, I looked her up and Wikipedia says she’s a conspiracy theorist who worked for Bill Clinton who was kicked off Twitter for vaccine misinformation and also defended someone credibly accused of SAing multiple women. This was just a cursory look so there’s probably a lot I’m missing, but I hope that answers your question.

[@nerdicorntheshipper2885]

I think part of the reason "ugly liberation" is a harder idea for people to embrace than, say, "fat liberation" is because ugliness is both extremely stigmatized and entirely subjective, and thus easy to deny. Categories like fat (or disabled, or disfigured) while definitely socially defined are still based in some measurable reality that makes them hard to deny. If you are someone who broadly believes that people don't deserve to be shamed or abused for their appearance and are faced with the material reality that some people are fat, the only way to maintain that conviction is to unlearn the idea that fatness is something to be ashamed of. But when it comes to ugliness, it is always easier to simply deny the existence of it than to try and unlearn the stigma surrounding that label

[@ArtichokeHunter]

yeah, I think it's tough even for those of us who identify as ugly to necessarily accept others as ugly or agree on any kind of defining line. sometimes i even question my own ugliness, even though it's pretty foundational to my identity at this point. i do think this can happen to a degree with fatness too (i've definitely seen some fat people arguing that nicola coughlan isn't fat in bridgerton discourse, and i've heard people describe themselves in fat-reclamation ways where my brain was like... this person must had previously been fat and still identify strongly with it, because their appearance seems factually not fat?) but things like wearing "plus-size" clothing or not fitting into standard sizes of things (e.g. chairs, seatbelts, weight limits on things) can serve as a relatively objective boundary line. i definitely watched this and had the gut reaction of I don't see any ugly people here? why do these people reclaim this term that is not applicable to them? but with more thought i guess it's really about whether their lived experience is that of others regarding them as ugly, treating them as ugly, calling them ugly, and that's not something i can gatekeep

[@baguettegott3409]

I would disagree with the idea that "ugly liberation" is harder to embrace for people than "fat liberation". If you look at this videos comments and sort them by new, there is so much kindness and interesting discussion, people sharing their struggles and encouraging each other. If you sort the comments on Rowan's video about Fatphobia in Children's TV by new, you are met with such a wave of open hatred, disgust and cruelty that (if you're fat like me) you don't even wanna live anymore.

[@ArtichokeHunter]

@baguettegott3409 this is an interesting point but i was responding to ugly liberation being harder to embrace in terms of the part of the video where Rowan talks about searching and finding very little, where there isn't a clear, prominent movement in the way there is for fat liberation. I don't know about the OP but I definitely didn't mean to say that fatness is less stigmatized or people are less vicious about it at all, but the opposite, since it's easier for people to agree on what is fat to turn against it

[@nerdicorntheshipper2885]

@baguettegott3409 I certainly didn't mean to imply that fat liberation has been a walk in the park. Fighting back against any societal bias is extremely difficult and will be met with a lot of friction. I was responding to the part of the video where Rowan talks about the lack of an existing ugly liberation movement, and was trying to explain why it might be harder for those who ALREADY value respect and kindness towards others to rally behind. I know for me personally I started trying to unlearn my biases about fatness long before I started questioning the "everyone is beautiful in their own way" mindset that helps deny the role of ugliness in our society.

[@KirstyBaba]

The way mainstream society acts shocked whenever a 'mixed-weight' couple is in the spotlight is bizarre to me. I know plenty of couples where one partner is larger than the other, it's a really ordinary thing to see in the real world. My own experience backs that up too- I've been on both sides of that dynamic and it's not something anyone even looks twice at. It feels like this abstract thing that people are appalled by in theory but surrounded by in reality.

[@TT-yl1wp]

I had never seen snog marry avoid but holy shit those “makeunders” made me so sad. Just an entire personality wiped in favor of conformity.

[@KirstyBaba]

Just came to comment the same thing. It's vile.

[@shushia1658]

I felt that

[@coffeecatichino5332]

And also (hope i haven’t missed the point of the video by saying this, I haven’t finished it yet) the after outfits are dreadful. They couldn’t give them any style at all? Just put them in personality-less business casual? Idk, I feel like even “”normal”” people wear things that reflect who they are in some ways. They found a dark clown girl and put her in pastels and sparkles? Not even a dark color palette? A tragedy, really.

[@IHeartGameplay]

Luxeria just reacted to a super size and super skinny episode where one woman yes was large but was making a effort and the other guy was a skinny guy who ate exclusively sweets. They tried non stop to make her look bad including at one point making her work at his job in the wearhouse and the entire time it was very like "omg? wow? she likes this? she's not losing her mind? fatty like???? how????" and it was very uncomfortable because objectively he had the worse relationship with food. She made whole meals but worked at a call center so she didn't get a lot of movement and she snacked, bad, yes, but he was a full on just not eating at all then cramming a lot of sweets and doughnuts into his face on his way to work in his car. We could see his bones, his family and friends were very worried but no no no, look at fatty mae the oinker omg. There's a section where they have to eat what the other eats for a while, and he had a large breakfast, but because she had to eat his meals, she had literally nothing, and it was played like a gag. She had to watch him eat while they filmed and played silly cheery music. That show is repugnant. The bad guy who needs to be fixed is always the large one, the skinny one should idk eat a chocolate bar sometimes lol like it is very clearly just a "lets all point at laugh at lardo as we stuff food into a tube filled with water for.... idk visual reasons??

[@Tazzie1312]

Ugh, I know you mean well, but I absolutely hate the framing of "making an effort".

[@rosiejl2798]

After growing up in the 2000s Luxerias reviews of early 2000's reality shows where she points out all the manipulation and problematic aspects are healing to me.

[@IHeartGameplay]

@ Thats a you issue. She is making a effort to eat well. She says how she tries to make healthy meals and not eat sweets and eat responsibly. She is making an effort, unlike the dude who just crams crap in his face hole in between starving himself.

[@Tazzie1312]

@@IHeartGameplay Way to be an ally.

[@IHeartGameplay]

@Tazzie1312 Ally to what?? Im like 260 pounds I am fat I am allowe yo state the fact that she's trying to be healthy and litterally anyone else can as well because health ≠ thinness. Idk what you think youre doing here, but go run find that 3rd brain cells and I'm sure you can figure out why you're rediculous here.

[@roseelisabeth761]

This video reminded me of when I was at uni doing my post graduate studies (around 2014-15) and I was in the feminist society. Someone overheard a guy refer to the society as the ugly girl club so we decided to claim it and posted no makeup selfies on social media proclaiming we were proud to be in the ugly girl club. There were loads of well meaning friends who completely missed the point and commented that I wasn't actually ugly!

[@PokhrajRoy.]

The 2000s has nostalgia for me but I didn’t realise that there was body horror that would leave Cronenberg shaking and becoming a Panopticon that would leave Foucault crying.

[@unknöwn-z.e]

I've been called ugly as if it's fact since i was in elementary school. Even now it happens a lot. Somehow it took me until my 30s to realize i could embrace my "ugliness" and take that power back and it's the best choice I've ever made for myself. Thank you for making this video ❤

[@catharsync]

I was taught in middle school health that there are only two eating disorders (anorexia and bulimia) and you cannot be anorexic unless you are underweight. I was also exposed to Biggest Loser. I legitimately believed that my body being "obese" meant, definitionally I overate. When I started restricting I believed it was, definitionally, healthy because it got me to a "healthy" weight. When a friend in college tried to tell me i had an eating disorder i didnt believe him, because even as I was underweight by waist to height ratio, i was 20 pounds away from being underweight by BMI. I thought it wasn't possible for me to have an ED, since i wasnt binging and purging. Turns out, I'm kinda just huge, naturally. Since starting recovery ive gotten several inches taller and "outgrown" most of my old clothes because they can no longer accomodate my shoulders. It is so hard to unlearn societal messaging about weight and accept that I will never be skinny

[@oooh19]

BMI doesn’t account for muscle mass

[@johannageisel5390]

So, you're just an Amazonian goddess?

[@KJ-co5bn]

Congrats on your recovery journey, I'm so very proud of you for looking after yourself!

[@azertyQ]

spongebob's "I'm Ugly and I'm Proud" episode is a complicated piece from the time period.

[@larissabrglum3856]

#uglypride

[@maggiephilson1667]

I kept thinking of that too lol.

[@Ginxed-coffee]

Since i cut my hair and decided to be masc (because I'm trans masc agender) I've been told im "wasting" my beauty, especially by my family. The thing is I feel more comfortable with most of my body (except my chest). I have my unibrow grown out (i shaved it and let it grow). I have my upper lip hair. My leg hair. My arm hair. I try to eat healthy and exercise. I dress in a lot of colors and rarely wear makeup (when I do it's only eyes). I've been told I can't possibly enjoy short hair and having it color when It makes me happy every day to just touch it. I've been sexualized and bullied at the same time. I've been treated much better when I conformed but men wouldn't stop hitting on me with the "cute" as the compliment of choice which made me want to vomit. My stepmom tried to make me remove my eyebrows/upper lip hair by taking me to a salon when I thought it was just fot her. Im an adult who lives on my own, and has for a while. Like irs so wild. I don't understand why ppl care. I've repeatedly told my parents "hey; it's not nice to speak of people that way" and "please don't talk to me about things you don't like on a stranger, things that might make them happy" ans yet they don't care. You talking about embracing the ugly is what I've been doing for years. I've actively talked about going the opposite way of beauty standards and then considering if I like it or not. That's how I decided I still like makeup (but no concealer and no "natural" looks), I still like fashion, I still prefer shaved pits, and I still like taking care of my hair. However, I've found a bunch of stuff I donr care about or prefer when it's "undesirable". Some of it is still hard to embrace, but it's so nice. I see more beauty for it. I love being ugly.

[@Никодим-м9ъ]

I love this comment (nonbinary trans guy by the way)

[@Ginxed-coffee]

@Никодим-м9ъ hell yeah! Love the name, slavic I presume? (I'm slavic)

[@WolfBitesAndSleepyGraves]

Transmasc here as well, and holy shit I get this from my family all the time. The talk of "wasted potential" and how I'm "not mature enough to understand the importance" of "presenting myself properly". For the record I'm twenty years of age. I don't know what part of the fact that having long hair, wearing feminine clothing and lacking body hair is something that used to make me deeply uncomfortable on a deeply personal level before I stopped. And I'm not going to suddenly start dressing like a completely different person because I'm not "attractive", especially when that's being pointed out by the kinds people I would never want to find me sexually or otherwise appealing.

[@Howdyasdo]

Transmasc too and you hit the nail on the head for how I present myself. My mom still badgers me that I would be so much more attractive if I did makeup/dressed fem, and hates when I do makeup that makes me happy (I love being visually extra). And yeah I originally didn't care about clothes and self care cuz "I wasn't like other girls" and saw it as a hassle, but some things are actually nice to do.

[@BisexualCommando]

hell yeah transmasc gang!!!!

[@izzygrosof]

Thank you so much for the video! It's very interesting to see this from a trans lens, as disgust and shame at ugliness is one of the major tools of transphobic oppression. "You'll never be pretty so what's the point of transitioning", or that we'll never be safe unless we're conventionally attractive. When someone says they can always tell, it's very much through the lens of ugliness. I like that there's a connection to surgery that rejects these expectations that it's for the benefit of a patriarchal audience. So many transmasc people have been told how beautiful their breasts are, and gotten rid of them anyways, and cried for joy. And I love that.

[@cedaremberr]

I'm trans and a psychotherapist and I can't tell you how many amab trans people I've heard tell me about their fear of ugliness preventing them from coming out. On the other side of that, as an afab teen, I remember when puberty shifted my body to feminine enough that people started treating me like a person for the first time in my life. It was so confusing. It felt good to have a place in the social world of middle school, but what was happening to my body was a horror to me.

[@harpy5629]

as a young kid i remember watching some of these shows and using them as thinspiration for my ED. in hindsight, i can't imagine that consequence not being considered when they were made. i bet plenty of people involved in production even thought they might be having a positive impact on public health. i'm so happy we can look back on this and be critical of it, even if it's a decade or so later.

[@rosiejl2798]

Yup I used to binge those shows on youtube when I had an ED in early adulthood.

[@annaleena1975]

Same, I literally used to watch episodes of Supersized vs superskinny while I ate to remind myself not to eat too much. If I remember correctly that one or another similar show for a season followed a group of recovering anorexics on the side which was like catnip to my ED.

[@hannahkat9722]

I have had a difficult relationship with my appearance and my weight for much of my life. But there is one person who will never know how much she meant to me and had probably saved me a bunch of pain: my old dance teacher. She was fat, and not fat in the way that is often seen as beautiful. And she was one of the most talented people I knew - she could fly across the floor. And there's a lot to be done to stand for the rights of fat and ugly people who don't have some great redeeming talent, but I'm just glad that from a very young age I had someone in my life to show me that the ideas of healthiness, fitness and perfection had nothing to do with appearance or thinness. Her ideal body was fat, and as a child I had someone to show me that fat lives can be magnificent. As an adult, I go to the sauna each week. People of all shapes and sizes sit in the heat and suffer, pressed up against each other when it's busy. It's uniting, seeing how many bodies exist in near-nakedness with no consideration to them. We're in discomfort and comfort because of the atmosphere, and our bodies carry no meaning or morality. There's no apologies for our bodies in this atmosphere, and no matter what issues I still have I am so glad I have this oasis in my life.

[@hyperhege]

Someone once told me I (or anyone else for that matter) don’t owe anyone my beauty, it’s not my job to be pleasing “eye candy” - in lack of a better word - to random people. I don’t exist to be something others will enjoy looking at. Like at all! I’m well within my rights to look how I want-exactly as “ugly”/weird/strange/whatever I want. I liked that. I agree - none of us owe anyone else our beauty! ❤

[@mahsmalade]

Hey hi! I’ve been slowly unravelling the damage this entire topic (and these shows!) have been doing to me for over 20 years. I’ve been on the edge of falling deeper into the hole after a really awful start to 2025 and I clicked this video almost as an act of self-sabotage. Instead, this reframed perspective was really empowering, enlightening and moving. The algorithm used its powers for good, for once. You have likely saved me from a pretty intense downward spiral. Thank you

[@besupaaa]

Those 90s\20s makeover ingrained themselves in my brain. I'm like almost 40 and I still feel bad about wearing glasses. DAMN YOU 2000S MAKEOVER MOVIES.

[@oooh19]

You mean 90s/00s not 90s/20s the 2020s is the current decade

[@bellindajane8452]

I remember being very young and feeling like these shows were wrong. Like at the time I couldn’t pinpoint why, but I felt gross watching them, I felt it was wrong somehow. It wasn’t till I got older that I understood that what I felt was empathy for the ‘ugly’ people and anger for the parallels I saw on my own body. I’m glad I didn’t ignore that feeling.

[@larissabrglum3856]

I thankfully never watched Biggest Loser, but I remember having similar feelings about the grocery store tabloids that fat-shamed female celebrities who dared to go to the beach

[@ArtichokeHunter]

it's interesting how the concept of ugliness is so subjective and nebulous that it's easy for me to bristle at other people reclaiming "ugly" -- even though I do it myself -- because my instinct is to gatekeep ugliness, that they're not ugly enough to reclaim it. When I saw the people featured in this video, that was my gut reaction.

[@Kingdomheatsox2]

Because of supersize vs super skinny i genuinely thought you had to work off all the calories you ate during a day growing up.

[@winddancer613]

This is also the effect of “calories in, calories out,” or “calorie deficit” diets/ slogans. The amount of times I’d heard TV show presenters say something like, “It’d take 4 hours of running to work off one Big Mac,” as though your body doesn’t need those calories to literally do its baseline functions is absurd.

[@Tessa_Gr]

@@winddancer613 It's so weird to act like when you eat a burger you eat it in addition to your meal, so you "need" to work out the exact amount of calories. I remember when I started uni, after just 3 hours of lectures I would feel like I'm starving. I started eating breakfast when before, when I went to school I'd never needed that. Of course physical exercise is actually healthy for a lot of different reasons and is probably better for losing calories - but we do burn calories constantly, and mental stimulation can also affect that.

[@human-beingggggg]

"10 years younger": exists Cis people: this is fine! I wish I looked younger too, because society says it's superior. Trans people: exist Cis people: This is not ok. You were perfect the way you were because I say so! You are being pressured!

[@sophiephilips-roberts3311]

In the US there was also the short-lived "Bridalplasty", in which brides-to-be competed to win plastic surgery before their wedding. Which I think is arguably akin to nuclear waste, on the scale of junk you'd pick up off the curb vs true garbage television.

[@vriskaserket467]

that show sounds so vile wtfffffffffff

[@Iquey]

As a trans person I watched that show religiously because I was on the edge of my seat to see which bride was gonna win.😂 It was crazy but felt validating to see cisgender women willing to bare it all about what they wanted for their wedding body.

[@GonzoIsCool]

When I was skinny and was having frequent bouts of anaphylaxis, pneumonia, and other infections, I STILL had doctors telling me to "be careful not to gain weight because you are the perfect weight." The doctors had no idea what was causing all these infections and collapses. And yet I was supposed to worry about weight when at the "ideal" weight. They also thought I should worry about acne. Seriously, I was barely surviving, and doctors were more interested in my looks than anything else. Honestly, I'm overweight now, but I'm not collapsing, having breathing problems, and am not on and off antibiotics. I had to do my own research because they assumed the weight was somehow now the cause. It's so twisted that now that I've got things under control, people tell that they'd rather be dead than wear uv clothes and avoid anaphylaxis and infections. Ah yes, a hat and gloves when going out are truly a fate worse than death, especially when fat. I only got fat because it took so long to get diagnosed, and because people messed with my diet out of fear of me getting fat. The thing is that I didn't even care about weight. It's pretty normal to gain weight with age. All I wanted was not to be so exhausted that I got misdiagnosed with narcolepsy. Arghhhhhh!!!!!! What is wrong with people that they think I should be suicidal????

[@jillm1142]

Jon Ronson has a great section in The Psychopath Test about The Swan and the lack of aftercare for the participants and their families. One woman went to participate and her family filmed talking about her and feeling pressured to talk about how ugly she was. Her sister was pushed into saying she was embarrassed to have her as a sister. Then, they couldn't film her makeover so she just went home the exact same, and her sister, who had pre-existing mental health issues took her own life. The fact that these shows questioned how (mostly women) saw themselves and put down their self image, yet provided no psychological support for these issues being brought up was downright criminal.

[@rynbliss]

i read a lot of webcomics, manga manhwa and manhua, and it really pisses me off the physiognomy type shit the artists pull with their villain designs 😭 good guys and main characters are always pretty, skinny, with smooth faces and small noses, while bad guys are fat, big noses, boils and blemishes, visible lines on their face when they smirk deviously... some of them dont even look like people, theyre just caricatures, and it makes me genuinely uncomfortable

[@LennyLefebvre-qb6qx]

“Uglification” just entered my lexicon and I’m never going back.

[@cloudyquartz1825]

my mom and sister used to watch these makeover shows and make jokes about sending me on them because they hated how i dressed, how i didn't really appear feminine enough. they'd joke that i looked homeless and tell me i needed to pay attention because this kind of thing could be beneficial for me. i always felt really gross watching these shows as a kid and now i know why. both of them have apologized for it in some way but the memory of them picking apart my appearance for laughs still messes me up

[@yourdad3275]

sorry but “eyebrow blindness” always reminds me of the tabloid headline “mother threatened with social services because of her eyebrows” like what an absolute camp queen, that’s not blindness that is a vision

[@larissabrglum3856]

I like to imagine that every time someone complains about her eyebrows she makes them taller

[@rayrayredgirl100]

My mother has never been a mentally well woman, and while that was a hard thing to live with I learned a lot from it. She hated herself, both inside and out. She thought of herself as ugly, she thought others thought her ugly (though very rarely being told so) and had no problem saying this to me from my inception. For many years I tried to soothe her as best a young child could, telling her 'no mom you're pretty' 'no mom your not ugly' but no matter how many times I tried to validate her externally nothing ever changed. She could not change her thinking patterns. Even as an outside observer it was exhausting, the mental space taken up by self hatred left very little room for joy and a real relationship with her. While sad that she is her own worst enemy, this taught me not to think same way, that it would only cause self destruction. That you yourself need to find neutrality or these thoughts will eat you alive, even if not a single soul says or thinks the same as you. That in this way you are projecting society thinking on yourself, policing yourself, punishing yourself. While of course this does not address systemic issues finding mental neutrality with my appearance allows me to spend my thoughts and time doing the things I truly enjoy.

[@thunder-san1377]

I find myself opposing a politic of ugliness in a knee-jerk way that I find really interesting. "Everyone is beautiful" is a really comforting idea, but a politic that presupposes that some people are indeed ugly makes me deeply, viscerally uncomfortable, even if the follow-up is that ugliness is a morally neutral attribute, in the same way fat liberation seeks to make "fat" a neutral descriptor of some people's bodies. Thinking of yourself as ugly, or worse, thinking of other people as ugly, even if we are to somehow strip that of moral judgements, kind of makes my stomach churn. And that's coming from someone who likes to think of themself as someone who likes things and people that are kinda ugly or at least not conventionally beautiful in the way alternative fashions or fat people or gender non-conforming people are not conventionally beautiful.

[@annamcivor4196]

I've been called 'naive' by my (toxic) ex for having an opinion on ugliness which is that nobody is ugly physically. We all have our own perceptions about attraction and unattraction and that doesn't make anyone ugly. Instead real ugliness comes from personalities and how people treat others (like people who think anyone fat is unattractive and so on). Agree with me or not that's my hot take

[@mezzqnine]

As a lesbian who does not gaf about male attention and quite honestly is done with being "attractive" romantically/sexually too this video made me introspect as to why exactly I feel the need to be beautiful - and I think it comes down to autism. In a book by an autistic comedian I read that she wanted to look pretty and feminine because she was already an outcast enough through the autism, and I do feel the same way sometimes. Like, consciously focusing on appearance because maybe it will neutralize the shit I get for being visibly & unmaskably neurodivergent? I'm aware that its a privilege to even be able to do that, but considering there are studies that show that beautiful people get listened to more in professional settings I always feel like I have to do everything to "balance out" my neurodivergence. Don't know if this makes sense. Thanks for the video as always, wonderful work!

[@yourdad3275]

36:48 i remember watching the show as a kid and being so fascinated by the diversity of styles people came on with before the underwhelming makeovers - there was potential for something much greater, and knowing the producers realised this and purposefully misrepresented it just stinks

[@CarolynKnits]

I am a large person, I always have been. I find it hard to put myself out on social media because if it ends up on the "wrong side" of that platform (usually tiktok) I just get bombarded with horrible comments. While I try to not let them get to me, they do and so I try to avoid bringing attention to myself in online spaces.

[@Thatposer444]

I often wonder if my dislike of being perceived and lack of social media presence is related to my appearance, assuming others will have a negative reaction.

[@littlecr3atur3]

what interesting timing, just earlier today I had a conversation with my neurologist about trying botox again after my insurance denied a different treatment I haven't tried. I HATED botox the last time I had to get it to try and help with my chronic and severe migraines. I don't like needles and getting stabbed with one over 30 times in my face, head, neck, and shoulders left me with anxiety whenever I go to a doctor's office, even years later. it didn't even help last time! just gave me weird and frequent dreams that left me tired in the morning. I also like having wrinkles, it's a sign of life well lived to me, and living long enough to get wrinkles is a privilege not everyone gets

[@houseboundhuman]

so bulging brides gets 3 seasons but Our Flag Means Death doesn't (gay pirate show for those who don't know)..... I hate it here

[@Acehigh-Jenkins]

We can’t have nice things! On a lighter note how good is the bit where steed is getting captured and Ed comes back and they play Fleetwood Mac’s The Chain! That moment lives rent free in my head and will till the dementia kicks in! Best TV moment in the last 20 years!

[@spicenugget]

I was a part of a family that watched the biggest loser together… this leaves me a lot to reflect on as I was quite young and definitely took a lot of that mentality on. I want to share this video with my family for sure.

[@blueberrypie1837]

Do you mind telling us how they reacted? Totally chill if it's too personal

[@activistwitch]

Shaming does not bring to weight loss, but boy oh boy if it drove a lot of us to eating disorders and society was so "proud" of us losing health if it came with the loss of weight too.

[@Shikohon]

God. I watched Snog Marry Avoid when I was a kid. I completely blanked it out of my memory until I saw those clips at the beginning

[@dimitra_k]

Apart from how much I appreciate how thoughtfully you approach topics like this and how important I find this discussion, I have to say that the set changes and costumes are top tier in this video WOW

[@laurelinvanyar]

Not me, realizing I've been using the Jillian Micheals school of self hatred to push myself into being "disciplined" about PT. I'll always have a semi adversarial relationship with my disabled body but sheesh. I'm trying to work on self criticism in therapy and there is this very real feeling that if I were to stop flogging myself into beneficial physical activity (especially when it's painful) then I'd never get anything done. I wonder what my headspace would be, if I'd ever consumed media that didn't rely on shame, humiliation, and uglification of the self.

[@icantchooseanic2729]

I think that the reason why there's no "ugly liberation movement" is because the word "ugly" is, just like the word "beautiful", subjective. "Fat" describes something objective, a fat person is a person who has a lot of body fat. People just decided to start using this word as an insult. Meanwhile, what does an "ugly" person look like? This word *was* made as an insult, it's not a describer turned insult. You can be the most beautiful person to someone and still be ugly to someone else. There's a reason there's a saying "Beauty is subjective"

[@lavendyre]

As someone with a Cleft lip and palette... yeah... yeah. I don't even have anything to say, it's been a hard life. Thankfully, I'm also queer and so the communities I'm in usually do not (fully) conform to the heteronormative outlook on "beauty" and that has been freeing. But is still something I battle with a lot. Is my nose too deformed, too big? Are the scars on my face too noticeable? Just last year my little brother who also has a Cleft lip and palette had a surgery to "correct" the look of his lips, it made me so sad for him but on the flip side I do see how it helped his confidence about it. It's such a pull and push.

[@HeyRowanEllis]

My last video (which is an unofficial part one of this one) is about visual difference/disfigurement if that might be of interest 💙

[@kadavarium]

Fellow IWTV fan spotted 🫵

[@vasilyevs]

super size vs. super skinny is so incredibly triggering to me as someone with an eating disorder. i'm old, i've been working on recovery for ages now, i don't think negatively about my body/my diet often anymore. but i saw someone else discussing the show relatively recently, and it whips up all of those horrendous thoughts about my body, other people's bodies, food, etc, to a truly dangerous degree. genuinely evil tv show.

[@kemerydunn9532]

I'm American but I found superfat vs superskinny on youtube when I was dealing with anorexia in high school and I absolutely watched it while trying to fall asleep while my brain was adding up everything I'd eaten that day. The only reason I know how many pounds are in a stone is so I could make sure I was as thin or thinner than the super skinny, and if I wasn't, then I had to do better tomorrow.

[@ElfPoles]

Everyone thinks "u should look pretty so guys like you'. Here's the thing. MOST PEOPLE SUCK and I would RATHER they AVOID me than even look twice at me (let alone Snog or even Marry. eugh). My presentation dramatic, weird, and ugly BECAUSE I WANT to DRIVE AWAY PEOPLE who think that beauty is inherently an important trait. They're the people who would go "if u didnt do X, you would be so pretty!" without comprehending the fact that such a thing would undermine my own interest entirely. Sadly, beauty IS important for jobs, because the Uniform is "Social Normality". ONE DAY WE CAN BREAK THIS BARRIER TOO. LETS GO UGLY LIBERATION

[@Ruth-of1ji]

The part on disability is so important. The only real insecurity with my body I still struggle with is my ulcerative colitis. It’s a huge part of my life but I still don’t tell people what exactly my condition/disease is until I know them reeeeally well, because it’s not a “pretty” disease, and when people ask what it is or google it I’m scared they will find me disgusting because of the symptoms I have when I’m in a flare up. I wish I could just not give a fuck but I can’t because it does affect how people view me, and doesn’t even reflect the scope of how it affects me with chronic fatigue, pain etc.

[@isabelperry4097]

I struggle a lot with how much and how often to compromise on looking "how I'm supposed to", and whether it's worth the cost to how I feel about myself, and the hardest struggle for me is when I have to choose between the physical effort and psychological cost of trying to look conventionally attractive, such as with shaving my legs, which makes me feel worse about myself generally and exhausts me excessively, vs. the stress and effort of fighting back mentally and emotionally against the internalized pressure to look a certain way so that I can instead choose to be and look how I am happy and most comfortable and myself, which is exhausting in its own ways. Some days I just don't have the energy to fight to be happy and I have to choose feeling safe so I can rest. Other days, it's not worth the effort to look conventional just so I can avoid being treated poorly by people whose opinions don’t matter. It’s a balancing act that sometimes I just can't win, and other times feels freeing because at least these things are within my ability to control, unlike my health and disabilities. I do almost always choose to look like I care about trying to look conventionally attractive when I go to important doctor visits and anything where other people's opinions affect my quality of life, because there's definitely a distinct difference in how I'm listened to and treated, and being disabled is already a mark against me in their eyes. But when I'm choosing for what makes me happy, the way I'm treated by other people is a cost that is 100% worth feeling right and happy in myself. And there are also a lot of people who find the "ugly" choices and/or acceptance/confidence interesting and inspiring and we get to have conversations. And I feel reassured that my loved ones love me for me rather than because they find my external appearance important and appealing, which is also anxiety-reducing because I am disabled and I get sick so often, such that if my appearance was what made me loved, I would not be. It really helps to remember that the people I love, I love for who they are, not their appearances, and they deserve my trust that they feel the same for me. Moreover, I deserve to choose the appearance that makes me happy and comfortable, and to not base my value of myself on my appearance.

[@gondolinamv914]

I understand the shaving or not struggles and how tiring that is. I'm more neutral than you on leg hair, in that I don't have a strong preference for keeping it per se, but I loathe feeling forced or pressured to remove it. Especially because as a very VERY young teen I started getting my legs and ARMS waxed due to bullying, and now I think about pouring hot wax on the skin of a 13 year old child to remove a perfectly normal part of it and it makes my brain explode. Why was I forced to change and no one did jack squat about bullying?? Rhetorical question, of course it's because the mainstream ideas of what is acceptable include hair removal for anyone perceived as a girl or woman, but ARGH

[@IamtheLexx]

Being too lazy, poor and contrarian to get into the beauty game saved me I think. I can't deny that the social pressure does affect me to some level, I think it's inevitable, but I'm glad my appearance is not something I think about much at all. What also helps is to surround yourself with people who don't give a shit about that sort of it either.

[@whitneyhendrix8075]

On the topic of strangers making unsolicited comments about looks when it’s irrelevant: I had a TikTok go viral of me finding a bird on the sidewalk. I got a comment referring to me as “he”. I thought it was just confusion cause my face isn’t in the video and I had a voice changer on. When I showed what I looked like as a “surprise”, they commented “nah you’re still a man” I just had a shaved head at the time and all the time people (mainly men) felt this NEED to tell me I looked like a man or ugly. Recently I corrected someone cause they read a post wrong and they said “I do t listen to women who shave their head”.. so because this man couldn’t read and I corrected him, he felt the need to look though my photos to find some from 3 years ago and comment on how he dosnt like that haircut even though it had nothing to do with the post

[@rowan9115]

As someone who is both fat and ugly, this video was a gift. Thank you for the compassion, intelligence, and energy you put into your work.

[@scottskaught6310]

I find the weeks worth of food tube so unserious like it's supposed to be this "look how gross you are" but it just reminds of when lil kids think that pooping is embarrassing. Idk grow up.

[@xRaiofSunshine]

especially since the food wasn't bad??? What's so bad about sandwiches and soup? Nothing 😭

[@larissabrglum3856]

I was expecting something more gross-looking like a pile of butter to represent the fat they consumed or something, but it was just... the normal food they ate?

[@More13Feen]

I was bullied in 2010 for wearing grungy cloths, doc martins and having wide hips and unplugged eybrows. Low and behold what became fashionable later 😅

[@user-wf9ro6dr4b]

i know of many people with eds, including myself, who triggered themselves by watching supersized vs superskinny. these shows undoubtedly perpetuated harm

[@Genesis3Chi]

I think the issue with an ugly movement is the impossibility of defining it Because all "ugly" traits to some are beautiful or neutral to others

[@strawberryskates]

Thank you for going deeper into this topic than most videos normally go. I'm definitely at the point where I'm trying to question why I'm able to accept a lot of things about me that aren't conventionally attractive, but still frame that acceptance from a desirability point of view.

[@rosiejl2798]

I have found body neutrality has served me well in recovering from an eating disorder and dealing with body dysmorphia in terms of taking my focus off my body and the pressure to always feel beautiful that is in the body positivity movement. The idea of Ugly liberation is really interesing to me as there are many parts of my physical body that can be considered ugly that I now dont feel I need to change or worry about (e.g. I dont stress if my legs and underarms are not shaved) but it would be cool to be able to challenge societals norms and repulsion by wearing a bikini with my hairy stomach+ bikini line (that I always keep covered) to challenge the deep shame I had experienced since puberty (and discoraged me from dating and finding a partner).

[@clairecheetham3646]

I’m ace and married to a very loving partner, so it has been really hard to tease out why I am still so sensitive to being considered ugly. It might be that I am also queer and autistic, and I am scared of people being able to see those differences and use them against me. But I can also remember just about every negative or passive aggressive comment I have ever gotten from an older woman. Aunts, mothers, grandmothers and mothers in law have all left scares on my soul reminding me that I just don’t measure up. But if I just tried bigger boobs/more makeup/more feminine clothes/ longer hair I could.

[@erinzimmerman7953]

1:22:12 This is an oversimplification on my part, but reminds me of the quote from the movie, Mean Girls: "I don't hate you because you're ugly, you're ugly because I hate you." I don't really have more profound comments right now, but I appreciate the thoughts and questions this video has brought up, and I'm grateful for the additional resources you've brought up!

[@pheela]

I WISH it were only nostalgia! They just restarted those plastic surgery + makeover shows where I live last year! I was absolutely horrified and thought surely not?? But nobody else but me seems to think its irregular at all that these horrible shows are back. I feel so sick, genZ has walked back ALL of the body positivity movement's work. In fact it's even worse than in the 00s now if you look at the beauty routine videos and all the many, many steps beauty influencers say are the bare minimum. When I grew up the shaving and waxing daily was for people in the public eye or working customer service jobs. Now I am seeing not just daily shaving for regular young people but also a multi-step routine for it, including a WHITENING agent for your armpits so it looks like no hair has ever grown there. Nuts.

[@missvioletnightchild2515]

Brilliant video!! Absolutely bonkers the stuff we used to watch, and Dr Jessen has a lot to answer for - he later admitted himself on Twitter that he had body dysmorphia and it's clear he was partially projecting when doing these shows (see also Embarrassing Bodies, URGH). We were so obsessed with thinness and I'm sad to see this coming back. I used to hate-watch Snog Marry Avoid as the alternative girlies were often super impressive (I was also alternative but in a much "safer" way), but looking back I'm not surprised it was traumatic for many of them. ALSO I have noticed you made an effort not to wear make-up for some of the segments and wanted to congratulate you on taking the plunge, I know you said it was hard for you so very well done :D

[@xXNekou]

Recently in my therapy we talked about how I tell myself I'm ugly, because telling myself I'm pretty would be lying to myself, deceiving myself, so I gotta keep telling myself "the truth" - that I'm ugly. My therapist wanted me to really think about this statement, and I had a lot of thoughts, and my main realisation was: (same as probably many other girls) I'm trying to figure out whether I'm really, objectively ugly, or pretty. Why? Because this dictates what I think of myself, if I'm objectively ugly, this means I don't deserve love and attention, my value is much lesser than the value of pretty girls. Being ugly seems to me like the worst thing one could be. But if I think about this for more than 2 seconds I know it's not true - there are many many worse adjectives one could be, "being ugly" doesn't really impact on how I can enjoy life, make my dreams come true, feel fulfilled by my passions and interests etc, it doesn't impact my capacity to receive and give love. Besides, that fear of being ugly in other people's eyes assumes that objective beauty exists. Which is also untrue if you think about it for more than 2 seconds. No matter what you look like, there will be people out there who will find you attractive, and others who will find you unattractive. So where is the objectivity in that? Are some people wrong, and some right? Should you listen to what the majority say? But just looking at history of humans it's clear that majority of people doesn't necessarily know better than a minority. So who should I listen to? Should I listen to those that find me pretty, to those who find me ugly, or no one at all? All those assumptions that tell me "ugly = bad, unlovable" and "girls have to be pretty, beauty is the main currency, beauty = joy, love, success" they are not MY thoughts, they are thoughts programmed into me by patriarchy (that wants to control women and keep them in check) and capitalism (that literally profits from women chasing beauty, profits from their insecurities and fears). I guess our goal should be to dismantle this system altogether, to be free of the "ugly - pretty" distinction.

[@iamalsopropaganda]

I’ve always hated those viral posts of couples where people consider one of them to be “out of their league” or otherwise unworthy of the other. This video focused a lot on women (for good reason) but this culture affects everyone. Every few years a new picture will make the rounds where a chubby nerdy guy will be standing next to a conventionally attractive woman and the comments will be full of how rich he must be, or how well endowed, if not blatant accusations of faking the image. These ideas have become so baked into our lives that people will see direct proof against the idea that ugliness prevents community, relationships, and connection and they HAVE to assume that there must be some sort of “trick”

[@edamamame4U]

I cannot fathom the pressure teenagers must feel to fit into these idealized standards of beauty that they see social media; they are constantly bombarded by Influencers touting beauty products, diets, and workout routines. It breaks my heart when I see young girls in Sephora buying products that are too harsh for their young skin because they saw it on TikTok or Instagram. I have to admit that I'm susceptible to Influencers even as an adult when I scroll on Instagram and get bombarded by beauty advertisements, workout routines, or healthier recipes. There are so many Face-Tuning apps that can correct features that we deem ugly or not attractive. It's so incredibly damaging and I believe that social media plays such a huge role in perpetuating these unobtainable beauty standards. It's toxic that women are seen as lazy, depressed, or ugly if they aren't perfectly groomed OR if they don't fit traditional beauty standards.

[@pheela]

Honestly, it looks exactly the same as what the teenagers of 00s were exposed to, it's virtually as ubiquitous. The key difference I would say, having witnessed both, is that back in the 00s everyone thought the plastic girls with boobs that looked like they were gonna burst were ridiculous but now it is sincerely aspirational. IMO this is bc the influencers are like your friends: in your mind they are normal people like your friends + they change to become more plastic-looking slowly over time. If it was only on TV it was easier to distance yourself from those standards and a really done-up stranger on the street was shocking to see all at once. The slow boil is more insidious.

[@denorangebanan]

sephora kids

[@eda6654]

as a 17 year old, this is all so disturbing to me. i too have my own insecurities fed to me by all this, but i do think i manage to seperate myself from it way more than my peers. hearing my classmates talk about how they hope they died by at most 30 so that they wouldn't be old made me sick.

[@mil_enrama]

I would suggest getting off Instagram if you can. No judgement for using it. But it's designed to feed into your insecurities in order to sell you stuff. It's not the photo-sharing app that it once was, it's now a manipulation tool. You deserve to be free of that. Anyways, that's my ha'penny worth. Love and light 💚

[@aturchomicz821]

Yeah teenagers who cant think for themselves lmao

[@trixxart777]

I started watching Luxeria's videos on super size vs super skinny and a lot of people talked about how for some people it was used to encourage their eating disorders

[@ghostlydolls]

I used to watch Super Size vs Super Skinny every night during my ano**xia days. I’m mostly recovered now, but those shots of the food going down the tube? I still imagine that every time I eat.

[@jujubesification]

I think back on how all stories growing up were about getting married. Like, why.

[@ThemiggieBRO]

I'm here, I'm seated, and ready to listen. But also, OBSESSED with your bookshelf! 😍

[@heatherhaven1268]

It is TRULY magnificent

[@Gerthious]

Doritos? All those mini eggs?? Flexing that youtube money 😂 Biscoff is... I don't have time! Thanks for another interesting video to ruminate in my head for next quite a while

[@HeyRowanEllis]

Haha these were all the snacks in my friends house where I was filming - I am a store brand tortilla chip girl myself

[@Gerthious]

@@HeyRowanEllis the cheaper tortilla chip works better for nachos! They can withstand a microwave to melt the cheese while staying crispier!

[@Rainbows-k1w]

@10:03 Meanwhile I am in a WLW marriage where we are both plus sized and we are the happiest couple I know. It is so obvious they think being a "good wife" only means being attractive for a cishet man Edit @1:11:06 Also I'll be blunt I am not an attractive person and I am in a great relationship with a legitimately beautiful woman. I agree seeing ugly people having fufilling lives is really liberating to folks who know they aren't attractive (I am a little person, I ain't ever gonna fit beauty standards)

[@lexa2310]

58:10 The disgust on her face when she saw the mens clothes makes me wonder if she thinks that mens clothes naturally are made with cheap fabric and are worth less. Like, lady calm down, Its a normal shirt and Im sure men dont just all wear coloured trash bags.😅

[@EvilCleverDog]

I actually can’t believe I used to watch shows like 10 Years Younger, Snog Marry Avoid, Trinny and Susanna, and Supersize vs Superskinny with my mum. She certainly didn’t view those shows as problematic at the time, and as a kid I struggled with my weight and feeling ugly, hairy, and not white-centrically attractive so I internalised a lot of bad shit from watching shows like that and seeing how other women responded to them. I’m still unpacking my body image issues/body dysmorphia and hatred of my own body/facial hair to this day 😭 Though a victory for me is I no longer feel the need to try and get rid of my arm hair, and I haven’t gone back to waxing or threading my brows very thin every month after I stopped doing it during the 2020 lockdown!

[@johannageisel5390]

More body hair than usual can actually be a sign of a hormonal imbalance. I used to have a bit of a lady mustache, untidy eyebrows, and also quite a lot of leg and arm hair, and also had acne on my back until my late twenties. Then my head hair started thinning and I was heartbroken because I really liked my long hair. I finally went to a gynecologist and was prescribed hormonal birth control. It not only cleared up my back acne, which I am super happy about, but also decreased the amount of hair I lost. My mustache also vanished and my eyebrows remained in a pleasant shape by themselves, no need to pluck stray hairs anymore. (I still have strong eyebrows and I like them.) The downside, however, is that I now suffer from migraines, particularly when I have my period. Still, I am happier with the changes in my skin and body hair, and looking back, I wish I had gone to the gyn at least five years earlier, not only when I approached 30. It might have saved more of my hair and spared me some time of being ashamed about my back. I'm telling you this just in case that's something you want to look into. If you feel you still want to change something about your body hair.

[@EvilCleverDog]

@@johannageisel5390 Oh don't worry, I'm well aware of all this. As well as being a mixed ethnic background that's more likely to have more body hair, I also have PCOS and that was a factor in things like more/thicker hair. It's been mostly under control for years and I while the hair situaiton is much improved as a result, I do still get more visible hair than most white people. I got the double whammy lol I'm sorry to hear about your experiences, and I'm glad you were able to improve your situation with hormone imbalance!

[@johannageisel5390]

@@EvilCleverDog I see. I wish you all the best in your journey to loving your body.

[@EvilCleverDog]

@@johannageisel5390 Thank you, you too!

[@kiterafrey]

As someone who is "recovered" from Ana (just weight-wise, I still fight the urges of relapse daily and have to have alarms to eat) I saw ONE episode of Supersize Vs. Superskinny. It caused me to relapse very fast and hard, if my husband didn't know my gives and what safe food could break my cycle, I can only imagine how many days I would've eaten less than 1,000 cal for the whole day. So if you have an ED, recovered or not, it is NOT a good show and I wholeheartedly understand the woman you referenced and her experience.

[@SCoati]

Your comparison to freak shows brings me back to an old Kyle Kallgren video where he called Honey BooBoo the new freak show. He argued that the lower class (and fatness in association) have become the new freak show, in part because society has found a way to justify shaming and gawking at this demographic. Modern culture has deemed mistreatment of people with facial or body differences as unacceptable (at least in the form of the freakshow), so it moved on to people who are seen to have moral failings that refuse to change. I wouldn't be surprised if a show pops up (or already has) that will subject the freakshow upon on the unhoused, incarcerated, or addicted. Now that I think about it, reality cop shows do this for criminals.

[@CharlieGreene24242]

Nothing pisses me off more than the "how you age when you're ✨️unproblematic✨️" meme...

[@tiuri7001]

Great video! The intersectional discussion really highlights the complexities of dealing with "uglification" because it is so intertwined with other axes of oppression. Btw. If anyone knows a good video essay that discusses this more in-depth on the theme of uglification and transness, tips are very welcome:) (I'm thinking eg about discourse surrounding who gets to pass connected to ugliness, as well as which procedures are "required" to "successfully" transition. Also, the idea of beauty being tied to the feminine - transmasc people often being told they are giving up beauty by transitioning, and transfemme people told that they can never really attain true feminine beauty)

[@Lemmelly]

Oh my God i used to watch bulging brides as a pre-teen and now today as a woman in my 30s, I still hear that coach saying "three pieces of sashimi" as a healthy lunch whenever I eat sushi 🍣

[@clairemobley4109]

I grew up watching these shows with my mom a lot and I didn't realize how horrible these shows were and how fat phobic my mom had raised me to be until I was well into college and watching your videos. Every now and then my mom still makes shitty comments about people's bodies and I usually try to shut that down as much as possible, but it really is crazy how easy it is, especially for children, to fall into these horrible mindsets

[@Littlebeth5657]

My mum was the same. She always has something to say about my weight whenever I see her and it's such a struggle to set those boundaries

[@spinefloor]

i really loved this video and almost feel like it would be great to do a continuation / deep dive of the topic in the direction of gender dysphoria. In trans communities we often have discussions about passing, the first reaction often also being affirmation of beauty, instead of maybe a realistic discussion about the issues people might face that dont present in the binary “beauty” manner others might expect. You mention the topic on the side a few times in the video, but i would love a deeper dive on this, as its especially hard sometimes as a trans woman to differentiate between wanting certain surgeries / changes because of societal beauty standards, vs discrimination, vs actual want? of course trans people have a very low surgery regret rate compared to cis people doing cosmetic surgery but still i am always left pondering how many people would want some changes without the marginalization of not fitting to a binary gender / beauty standard. This is especially something i often think about in the context of historical queer figures that did not have the possibility of hormone therapy or similar medical approaches.

[@KirstyBaba]

As a trans woman myself I think about this a lot too. Currently, I'm at a place where I'm seeing this through the lens of an idea that Rowan does mention in the video, though in a slightly different context- the idea that the existence of new technology can create new needs. While sometimes this is artificially encouraged by Capitalist interests, I think on a more basic level just knowing that something is possible and available makes us desire it more, when before the healthiest approach would have been to find ways to be happy living without it. The way I see it is that many of our forebears probably dreamed about the kind of gender-affirming technology available to us today, and if we personally find that attractive, we owe it to ourselves and to them to pursue it.