Royal Enfield Himalayan 450 - My final thoughts after pondering my recent test ride

Sorry for the late release of this video.
My computer was preoccupied with an update and I couldn't schedule this video for the usual time.
After much rumination, I take a ride on Norman and give you my final thoughts on the Royal Enfield Himalayan 450.
This video is simply a follow up ( after some time to reflect ) to my recent test ride first impressions.
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Cheers 👍🏻
ER.
#himalayan450 #review #testride #economicalrides #royalenfield #royalenfieldhimalayan #himalayan #himalayan411 #review #himalayanreview #ruby #sossidges #meteor350 #classic350

[@BlakesPipes]

This is also what I say about gopro, every version is not better, they are better for someone. The 7 black gopro seems to be the love of gopro, but everyone was wanting the newer and better version. Just like RE, it might not be better, but it might be for some. Wonderful review wrap up sir!

[@economicalrides]

Thanks Blakester. Yeah, it took me three goes to decide what direction to take this opinion piece in 😂 But ultimately I came down firmly on the side of NO. I guess I was torn because I really wanted to like the bike and by the time of the second attempt I was almost there but then whilst filming that I realised that Norman is absolutely spot on for what I need him for. The new one is better in some ways, worse in others but overall not at all worth the 4k it would cost me to upgrade. Once you look at what it's going to cost you and for what benefit, the decision to stick with the "bought and paid for" 411 becomes a no-brainer. Cheers Blake. I hope you are getting on with your own videos now 👍🏻 Garry & Ruby

[@jamesbarr7320]

You've just confirmed my decision to purchase a 411 second hand to go with my Meteor 350, Thanks

[@economicalrides]

Hi Jim, yep. As things stand, the 411 is the better all-rounder and can be tuned and modded to be a fair bit better at the touring thing, should that ever be required. I'm sure you'll enjoy the 411 on the road and on the trails ! I'll wait and see if the Gen 2 450 addresses the vibration issue. If it does, I will reconsider it as an option in the future. But for the current iteration it's a clear NO from me. Cheers Jim 👍🏻 Garry

[@Plough78]

#metoo ...😂. Rolling on a Meteor 350 also, love it to bits but I'm ready to snap up a bargain Himmy to compliment it.. Hopefully we see a dip in second prices once the new one lands here in Thailand. To me the 411 is the beauty of the two..By a long way...! I want pure black or black red 🥳 *Crap Game* 🎉

[@economicalrides]

@@Plough78 Good luck getting a nice Himmy 411 CGR. I'm sure you'll love it, but give it some time. The 411 is a grower. I didn't love it right away but I do now and it really is such a useful bike to have in your garage. Let me know whenever you get one and let me know what colour it is 🙂👍🏻 Cheers CGR Garry

[@Ainsworth-Rider]

Morning Garry 😊 well this video must have put a big smile on every 411 owner, especially doing the talk over on Norman 👍 Morning Ruby xxxx

[@economicalrides]

Thanks James. Yes. Can't see any way that the 450 can be proclaimed the better all-rounder. For me the 411 wins hands down ! Hopefully RE can sort out the engine mounts and reduce the vibes. Then I'd be prepared to reconsider. Cheers James, hi Mrs A ! Garry & Ruby

[@MerciaMoto]

Good evening Garry and Ruby, finally gotten around to catching up and watching your follow up. You’ve given an honest opinion based on your personal experience of riding the 450. I have just spend another week out exploring the highways and byways in wales on the Scram 411 and the more I ride it the more I’m loving it. It’s now done ~2800 miles and has loosened up beautifully to the extent that I have really had some spirited rides on it when the opportunity has reared its head. I more convinced then ever that the Scram is going to be a keeper for the long term. Perhaps a cam and sprocket upgrade next year 🤔 Thanks for sharing your experience and opinions on the Himalayan 450, really informative and always a pleasure to watch 👍🏻

[@economicalrides]

Thanks Dave, very kind of you to say so. I tell you what, if I am ever in a position to do some multi-day motorcycle journeys, then I wouldn't hesitate to take Norman for that job, because for me he would be more than adequate. And should it become a semi-regular thing, then I would almost certainly do the cam upgrade and go one larger on the front sprocket, just to make any unavoidable motorway stretches relatively comfortable 70 mph stretches, enabling me to get them over with asap. So yes, for you, the cam upgrade and a larger sprocket would probably be very worthwhile upgrades. But for as long as I am pottering about within two hours of home and can avoid motorways, I think that I can live with Norman as he came out of the factory. Martin Trafford Moorland Biker has ridden his 411 fully loaded through France and all over Spain without any issues. He has done the cam and sprocket upgrade but I think he was doing similar journeys without those mods. The 411s are great budget all-rounders, as long as you are not looking to do 100 mph everywhere, they'll get the job done. And in case people hadn't realised, the speed limit in most European countries is 70 mph !!!! Cheers Dave, Garry & Ruby

[@Rick-ve5lx]

Agreed. In comparison with my 411 the 450 seemed so precariously top-heavy when putting it on or off the side-stand that I didn’t even take it for a test-ride.

[@economicalrides]

Hi Rick, yep, with a full tank with that side stand angle, it really does take some heaving up. Don't think I'd enjoy it at low speeds on tricky off-road sections. I could also see myself dropping the bike moving it about the garage/graden with the engine off. At least you spared yourself the vibes by not taking it for a spin, so there's that 😝 Cheers Rick Garry

[@martintraffordmoorlandbike7121]

Morning Garry, from a wet and miserable Moorlands. Interesting to hear your eventual conclusion, a conclusion shared by a growing number from what I can tell. The divide seems to be between those who just get out for an hour or two on local lanes, and those who tend to do serious mileage. I definitely fall within the latter, and although I fully intend to have a second ride when the 450/452 has matured a little, purely for my own curiosity. Regarding the Tripper, I have zero experience with it, but my son-in-law has it on his Super Meteor, and has nothing but problems with it, so just uses his phone now! That trail sequence looks particularly inviting - whetting one's appetite even more! Thanks again anyway Garry, and regards to Ruby. Stay safe buddy. 🏍️👍

[@economicalrides]

Hi Martin. My only concern for those who say "it's okay, I only ride short blasts on a weekend" is that surely they ride at 50-60 mph for a fair amount of that time, national speed limit and all that ? If they do, I can't see how anyone can describe the 450 as pleasant at that speed. That's nicely into the vibey zone and it's at a speed where a lot of people spend a lot of time riding. It doesn't just start tingling at 70 mph, it starts at about 55 mph ! Hybrid comments below that he thinks that the way the engine is a stressed member of the frame is the issue. I think he is right. That engine won't be too vibey, RE haven't suddenly forgotten how to make a smooth single cylinder engine. The trouble is, with the engine as a stressed member ( this frame has no lower subframe ) those engine vibes are going straight into the entire frame. They need to look into reducing the vibes where the engine attaches to the rest of the frame. I'm sure that they can bring the vibes back down to acceptable levels with a bit of work in that area 🤞 I shall await Himalayan 450 Revision 2 with interest ! Using proprietary apps to navigate is always a pain. There is always something that they don't allow you to do. It's frustrating. And if the device only works with the manufacturer's own software and that software is not full-featured, then you quickly stop trying to use it. I certainly couldn't be bothered setting up the Tripper Dash to navigate with it. Just nail my phone to the handlebars and start Google Maps. Job done. Those trails are all up by Las Menas Martin. So if you are up in Las Menas it would be rude not to 😉 Maybe we can spend a day up there. Las Menas on foot to sate your industrial history curiosity and then a bit of trail riding afterwards 👍🏻 Thanks Martin. Ruby says hi ! 2024 is flying by. Not long to go now Martin ! Cheers, Garry & Ruby

[@dinomalta712]

YOU Nailed it! All the reasons why I will stick to my 411, now apparently you can get a tubeless tyre kit for the 411, not looked into it yet, as we get excellent recovery, and in Malta you are only about 17 miles max from home! Plus your bike will not be stolen if you have to leave it even overnight. Cheers, DINO and Crew.

[@economicalrides]

Hi Dino, that's how I see it too. If I get a puncture in the mountains somewhere, I can probably leave the bike up there for days without anybody stealing it ! In that time I will find somebody with a 4x4 and a trailer to help me get it back down, I'm sure. That's the beauty of owning a Himalayan. If it was a big GS then of course I would be TERRIFIED of somebody stealing it whilst I was sorting out the recovery. But with the Himalayan, I wouldn't be too worried. But I would be interested in a tubeless conversion, it would make life easier, should I ever pick up a puncture. Does it keep the original tyre sizes ? If not, I can't use it because the Spanish annual ITV won't pass any tyre size that isn't standard for the bike as homologated. If the kit keeps the original tyre sizes, it's definitely something I would look into 👍🏻 Cheers DINO and crew. Take care you lot ! Garry & Ruby

[@dinomalta712]

@@economicalrides As far as I can remember it uses OE rims and tyres, basically it's a rim tape system to seal over spoke nipples, making it airtight. Sorry don't know more, just saw it on You Tube , a while ago, but not really needing it, didn't bother researching any further, Good Luck,DINO.

[@economicalrides]

@@dinomalta712 Ah ok. Sounds like the tubeless mod that Hippo Drones did on his Tuareg. Same idea. Original rims and tyres, just using tape to seal the rims around the spokes. He did it but had a slight problem with one tyre which continuously lost a small amount of air when stood. But definitely worth considering 👍🏻 Thanks DINO, Garry & Ruby

[@Plough78]

When it was announced i was sure i would eventually have one , however over time the more i looked at the stunning design/looks of the 411 the more nauseous 🤢 the 450 made me feel. The performance of the 411 will be perfectly sufficent for gently rolling around asia.. Good video.. 👍 *Crap Game* 🎉

[@economicalrides]

Thanks CrapGame. Me too. I wanted to buy one, run both and then decide which one to keep. It would have made for some interesting videos too. After watching early videos of the 450 coming out of India, I soon realised that I would be keeping the 411 because most people there just felt that it was the better bike overall. So once I'd discovered that, I more or less decided that I wouldn't be buying a 450 after all. I tested it to see if it could tempt me into adding one to my garage, as I originally intended, but ultimately it couldn't. I think quite a few people who swap their 411 for the new 450 will be disappointed and ultimately will regret doing so. Cheers CG, Garry

[@Saddlebags73]

Still keeping the 411 but still curious about the 450. If a fully run in bike is still that vibey RE have really screwed things up 🤷🏻‍♂️ Much love to both from both 🙂👍🏼

[@economicalrides]

I think they have screwed things up to a degree. RE haven't suddenly forgotten how to build a smooth single. I'm pretty sure that the engine is not the issue. The issue is that this is their first frame to use the engine as a stressed member ( in lieu of a lower subframe ). For me it's fairly obvious that this will put more vibes into the entire frame than if the engine is mounted on several separate subframes. I think that they should look at the points where the engine meets the frame and do some work to absorb some more vibrations in the engine mounts to reduce the engine vibrations being transmitted into the rest of the frame. They don't have to reduce the vibes by a huge amount to be in KTM 390 territory. So it will still be a bit vibey by recent RE standards, but probably no more so than its competitors, which would be acceptable. But I think that it will always be vibey, just because of the way they are using the engine as part of the entire frame. I wouldn't be surprised if the next version of the 450 has improved engine mounts, because when people are cancelling their orders after taking a test ride, that's a clear indication that the current state of affairs is not acceptable to a lot of people. If I was a dealer, I wouldn't let anybody take a test ride if they've already placed an order ! 👹 Love to you both from Spain, Garry & Ruby

[@PeterHolland-mu7yn]

Evening Garry, not only the indicators, but that fuel tank lovely curves looks good but will not cost just a couple of hundred euro to replace cost comes with complicated curves, take it from me Ducati fuel tanks lovely complicated curves and telephone numbers to buy. On our way home after a chilled holiday in the south, chilli’s hoping we have forgotten the cats, the 450 a nice looking bike except for THAT CLOCK, but the water cooled motor for some reason leaves me cold, good trail mate Norman looks completely at home on the trail best stick with him bud, thems in Normandie

[@economicalrides]

Hi Pete, glad you all enjoyed your little holiday 👍🏻 Hi Chills ! ❤🐕 I think that a Gen 2 Himalayan 450, with the engine mounted in a better way, could end up doing really well. Unfortunately though, I think a lot of 411 owners who have decided to upgrade right away, will be disappointed. As things stand, for me the 411 is the better all-rounder. I can't see why a 411 owner would need the 450. It is worse in several respects. Obviously, if you don't own a 411, you might be tempted to own a "Himalayan" and just go out and order the latest, "greatest" one. But my advice would be to wait a year and see if there is a reaction from RE to mitigate the vibes in this bike. I'm pretty sure that they will do something, as long as a few more reviewers are actually HONEST about the level of vibrations and stop brushing it under the carpet for fear that if they say too much, they might not be invited to the next fancy RE press launch in India 🤷‍♂ But hey, that's what I'm here for. I'll say what I think and people can either value that or think that I'm totally wrong. When I bought Norman I was intending to buy the 450 and keep both and compare them. But having watched a few videos from India, from the time when the 450 came out over there, it soon became clear that the 450 really wasn't significantly better than the 411 and that it had vibration issues at higher speeds. I now know that if I had bought one, I would have absolutely hated it and would have stuck with just keeping Norman after shifting it on asap ! Thanks you lot. Take care. I hope that you get back into your normal Normandie routine nice and smoothly ! Much love, Garry & Ruby

[@paulholmes1682]

The first iteration of a new model is often prone to the dreaded "teething problems". My MT-09 was a case in point and it has taken Yamaha 10 years to get it right. So heres hoping RE sort out the new Sherpa engine pronto, preferably as quickly as Ruby demolished that sossidge!!!

[@economicalrides]

Now now Paul. You can't expect RE to sort it out THAT quickly 😂 Ruby has years of experience of sossidge eating. Her technique in this one, to rotate the sossidge so it was lengthways in her mouth, enabling her to just suck it in whole was top level stuff ! It has been mentioned that the Himalayan 450 frame is using the engine as a stressed member, there is no lower subframe, so I do wonder whether the engine itself is refined enough and perhaps the problem is the way they've chosen to integrate it into the frame. Definitely something they need to look into because the vibes are way beyond what I would expect from a modern engine. So, maybe the engine isn't the problem ? Thanks Paul 👍🏻 Garry & Ruby

[@johnbellamy6449]

I think the 411 is the best option at the moment Gary . our local honda dealer has a 2022 411 ,less than 3000 miles .looks excellent for £3500 , good buy for someone .

[@economicalrides]

Hi John, yes. Hopefully a Gen 2 Himalayan 450 will address the vibration issue. I would certainly recommend that people wait a while until this whole issue gets enough traction that RE realise that they need to address it. Currently, most reviewers are being polite about the vibes, trying to downplay them. For me they are not acceptable and as Hybrid says down below, the issue could well not be the engine itself but the way they are using it as a stressed member in this new frame design. I think that will turn out to be the issue. I suspect that the motor is smooth enough, it's just that the frame design is putting unpleasant motor vibes into the frame and everything attached to it. With a bit of luck RE can just change how they mount the engine to the frame, maybe add more rubber to the mounting points and then suddenly the 450 would be a fantastic bike for many. But as it is at the moment, Norman is by far the better all-rounder and the Himalayan that I would recommend people should buy at the moment. 100%. There should be plenty of 411 Himalayans up for sale at the moment, as many owners have decided to upgrade to the 450 ( which I think a fair few of them will live to regret ). For anybody who is interested in a Himalayan, now would be a great time to pick up a decent 411 for little money. Cheers John, say hi to Linda for us ! Garry & Ruby ❤🐕

[@johnbellamy6449]

@@economicalrides agree 100% Gary . the engine will have a balance shaft alteady i would have thought ? .

[@economicalrides]

@@johnbellamy6449 Yes. I think with both the 411 and the 350 RE has shown that they can make smooth single cylinder engines. I am pretty sure that the new 450 engine is being let down by the way it is being integrated into the frame. Time will tell but I'd be very surprised if the 450 engine is THAT unrefined, given RE's past record John !

[@BlakesPipes]

I am crazy, I still use maps to set my route. Look at it as the week leds up to travel and then look at it night before travel and write down key points to change direction. Then use my phone when I stop and look! Never have used today's navigation systems yet. Might not be old enough yet. 😂 or am I newly divorced and can't have a woman telling me where to go anymore?😂

[@kenbrooks7794]

Indeed, your'e right Blake, maps will never let you down. true, they can be a faff sometimes but satnav isn't exactly infallible....

[@PeterHolland-mu7yn]

Yep guys work out your rout on a map write down in descending order town / ville / city with the road number and stick it in the top of of yer tank bag worked for me for the last 50 + years and I never have to stop at the side of the road stabbing my finger at a blank screen. …. Pete 🇫🇷

[@economicalrides]

Hi Blakester. Yes. I no longer own paper maps but if I need a map, I use the map on my phone. Unless my phone dies, thanks to Google's offline maps, I will always have some sort of map about my person and that's probably enough, should I ever get lost. Once all of my paper maps dissolved, I never bothered replacing them. We were already well into the Google Maps era by then 😂 No doubt you enjoy the freedom of no longer being told where to go by a "helpful" passenger Blake 😂 Cheers buddy, Garry & Ruby

[@economicalrides]

@@PeterHolland-mu7yn Yep. I remember those days well. If I ever tackle a longer journey on a bike again, I will however be digital only. All of my paper maps have dissolved and there are also too many new roads here that won't be on the old maps. But thanks to offline maps, as long as my phone has juice, I should be able to call up a map and figure out where I am, should I get lost. But like you, I would probably have a piece of paper with the key junctions stuck to the tank somewhere, having planned the route on my computer at home 👍🏻But currently I only ride in areas I am familiar with, so not something I need to deal with at the moment. What I almost certainly wouldn't be using though is the RE app and the Tripper ! Cheers Pete and crew ! Garry & Ruby

[@economicalrides]

@@kenbrooks7794 But they dissolve over time Ken ! Well, mine have 😂 As long as my phone has juice, I can rely on the "map in my pocket". If you download the maps to work offline, you don't need data or cellular connection, just power in the phone and the app not crashing. So for the odd time that I ever need a map, I think I'll be ok with the "map in my pocket". Once my maps dissolved, I couldn't really see the point in replacing them because by then, everything was clearly going digital. Cheers Ken 🙂 Garry

[@tpcreeper2185]

I'm now considering the Tec cam upgrade. I already did the 16T front pinion. This may be just enough to disuade me from the new 452 Himy.

[@economicalrides]

Hi TPC, yep, I reckon that the 411 will be touring capable with that gearing and the cam upgrade. Even in standard form the 411 feels better at 60 mph than the 450 does. I think that I will do the cam upgrade once the bike is out of warranty. Besides, I am not touring on it at the moment and for the off-road stuff it is already fine as it is. I know of people who have gone up one on the front sprocket and then done the cam upgrade and use their 411 to go touring all over Europe. Bearing in mind that in most countries the speed limit is 70 mph, as long as the modded 411 will do that fairly comfortably, there isn't really a need for any more IMO. Good luck with it. I think a cam upgrade would be the best way to go, personally. Assuming that you already like the 411 that is. It's hard to see the 450 as an upgrade if you already have a 411. The 411 just does too many things better than the 450 in its current guise. Cheers, Garry

[@markberney300]

The cam makes quite a difference. The spread of torque is much wider now, so touring on highways is actually easy for the bike. I've done 12,000 klm travelling in Australia since fitting the cam and am more than happy with my Himi.

[@economicalrides]

@@markberney300 Thanks for your input Mark 👍🏻 If I ever started using my Norman for touring then I would almost certainly do the cam upgrade and go up one tooth on the sprocket. Glad to hear that the cam upgrade is working well for you. Cheers Mark, Garry

[@stephanl.4857]

😂😂😂 Garry du hast Recht... Ruby hat sich die Wurst längst zurechtgelegt und es einfach flutschen lassen. 👍 Mir Persönlich gefällt Norman besser als die 450er, ich war damals auch am überlegen mir eine Himalayan zu kaufen aber für mich war die Fußrastenposition nicht ideal. Ich hätte sie lieber etwas weiter hinten gehabt, also etwas mehr Enduro-Feeling. So wurde es dann eine Meteor. Generell finde ich die Langhubmotoren klasse. Ich liebe es wenn ein Motor aus dem Keller heraus durchzieht. Ich würde ja gerne mal eine Benelli Imperiale 400 fahren, die macht bestimmt auch Spaß. LG Stephan

[@economicalrides]

Hallo Stephan. Ja, sie scheint die "German sossidges" besonders zu mögen, die flutschen ja richtig runter 😂 Ich mag auch lieber einen langhub Einzelzylinder oder einen Multizylinder Motor. Ein drehfreudiger Einzelzylinder wird immer "buzzy" sein. Überhaupt nicht mein Ding ! Ja, ich nehme an dass der 400er Benelli Motor ähnlich sein wird wie der RE 411 Motor. Könnte ich mir zumindest vorstellen ! Danke Stephan 👍🏻 Garry & seine 1A Wurstmanupulierer ❤🐕

[@jimmydickson8854]

I think they should go back to cable throttle it would be cheaper to produce as well ,how do you go if the ride by wire goes wrong when you are in an isolated area how do you get out of there

[@economicalrides]

You can't beat the throttle response of the 411 off-road. It feels like you can add each individual rpm via the twist grip. The response is always instant and predictable. My experience with the 450 was somewhat different, although over time you probably would get more of a feel for how it responds. Proponents of ride by wire would say that it is probably more reliable than a cable, since there is no cable to break. But if a cable breaks, at least you stand a chance of possibly bodging something to get you home. If the ride by wire stops working, you'll be calling for recovery and a bloke with a laptop, won't you ? I'm not aa fan of ride by wire but it seems like everything is going in that direction. The manufacturers like the options it gives them. Things like different engine modes and cruise control. All stuff that I don't care about, to be honest. I shall certainly be sticking with my 411 for as long as it still works Jimmy ! Cheers, Garry

[@nicholasfox3670]

I’ll go with your observations whilst wondering how the reports of road testers who have been loaned bikes have given mostly such very different impressions.

[@economicalrides]

Hi Nicholas, well, my advice would always be to try the bike for yourself if you can, don't take anybody's word for anything 😂 If I'm being generous, I would suggest that some motorcycle reviewers are less sensitive to vibrations than I am. However, I think most larger channels are afraid of being too critical for fear of no longer receiving press bikes or being invited to fancy RE launches in India, USA or wherever 🤔 The closest anyone got to painting.a clear picture was MOTOBOB who did an extra video addressing just the vibrations of the new Himalayan. Although he couldn't bring himself to say that they were unacceptable, reading between the lines it's pretty clear that they are probably the worst in class with this bike. The KTM and Triumph singles are smoother. The real killer for the 450 is that the vibes are at their worst at speeds where you spend a lot of time riding. If they were only at the very top end of the rev range, you could ride around them and probably never notice them. I've also received comments from people who had one on order, later took a test ride and then cancelled their order because of the vibes. So they are definitely an issue for a lot of people. I think the problem is less likely to be with the engine and more likely to be the frame. In this new frame, they are using the engine as a stressed member ( in lieu of a lower subframe ) and they need to look at ways to better isolate the engine vibrations from the frame, where the engine joins the frame. I think they can probably improve how they mount the engine in the frame to at least no longer be worst in class. But I think this engine in this frame is always going to be quite buzzy. Here's hoping that RE can find a way to at least reduce the level of vibrations going into the frame because then all of the new 450s will have a better chance of success. There Nicholas. I hope that answer was long enough for you 😂 If you are interested in buying a 450 for yourself, I would strongly recommend test riding one first, just in case you are more susceptible to vibrations than others. Other than the vibe issue, I have no MAJOR criticisms of the new bike. I could definitely live with it and enjoy it, if only the vibes were not there. Cheers Nicholas, Garry

[@nicholasfox3670]

@@economicalrides thanks for your detailed and informed reply.

[@kristophertrout7328]

Some of our off road enthusiasts would disagree about having tubeless tires because if a rim gets bent you no longer have a seal on the tire bead. 🤔😎

[@kenbrooks7794]

Yes, spot on! 👍

[@economicalrides]

Hi Kristopher, I can see that, but if you bend the rim, you've probably pinched the tube and caused a puncture. So unless you are prepared to replace a tube out on the trails ( with all that it entails ), you are going to have a problem either way. I suspect that I would only get nails and things in the tyres, riding as I do. And for that scenario a tubeless tyre is so much easier to repair in situ. A proper off-roader would change a tube out on the trail without batting an eyelid, I know. But I wouldn't. I wouldn't have the necessary tools with me for a kick-off. So tubeless tyres would probably be the better option for me, they would give me a little more security out on the trails. Cheers Kristopher, Garry

[@economicalrides]

@@kenbrooks7794 A proper off-roader has no problem changing a tube out on a trail Ken, I appreciate that. But I can't see me ever doing it and I'd probably always be missing some important tool to get the job done anyway. I think that I am most likely to pick up a screw or a nail and get a puncture that way. If I had tubeless tyres I could probably plug them at least well enough to get me home without the need to call for recovery. If the tube is knackered and won't hold any air, I don't really have any option, other than to call for recovery, which depending upon where I am and whether or not I have phone signal, could be a right faff. Cheers Ken, Garry

[@kenbrooks7794]

@@economicalrides I DO see where your're coming from Gary but you must bear in mind that you're conversing with a dinosaur from a bygone age! 😁 Tubeless was an almost unheard of novelty on a trailbike when i started out, back in the day when all self respecting TRF members drank Real Ale, smoked pipes and wore waxed cotton! I still have a puncture repair outfit under my seat but when i'm on the trails i carry a spare tube. TBF punctures are pretty rare, maybe one or two a year. I'm blessed with a single sided swingarm on the rear so a tube change only takes 10-15 mins, about 20 mins on the front. Too late for me to catch up with progress now.....😁

[@economicalrides]

@@kenbrooks7794 Of course I was never in any doubt that an off-road legend such as your good self would change an inner tube, inflate it and be back riding again, all in the time it would take me to call for a recovery vehicle Ken 😂 I just think that the less nuts I have to loosen on a vehicle, the better it is for everybody involved, let's just put it that way ! Oh and I really dislike getting my hands dirty 😇 So tubeless tyres with plug repairs I find strangely appealing 🙂 Thusly I am not yet worthy to be considered part of the Real Ale drinking, pipe smoking, wax cotton wearing off-road legend community. I am fully aware of that Ken but of course their acceptance has to remain and will remain my ultimate ambition 😇 😝 Cheers Ken. Nothing wrong with being old school 👍🏻

[@WilliamAndrewPhilipBodie]

Don't know if i did write it. but it's the last Taurus day. so Happy Birthday 😀 Cheers to Ruby & Sire 🍻

[@economicalrides]

Haha, you're right William. I did have a birthday this month, so thank you ! I didn't buy myself anything but yesterday I ordered a new helmet, so I guess I'll call that a belated birthday present to myself ! Thanks William 👍🏻 Garry & Ruby

[@Grumpysprout]

After test riding the 450, the suspension is a great improvement but the vibration is excessive for me, and on that basis, I've cancelled my order.

[@economicalrides]

Hi Grumpy 😝 thanks for reassuring me that I am not alone in thinking that the level of vibrations is unacceptable in this day and age. You are the second viewer so far to tell me that following a test ride, they cancelled their order ( because of the vibrations ). It's disappointing and somewhat mystifying how RE signed off on the bike as it currently is. I think they needed to find a way to isolate the rider from the vibes. I think then, this model would have sold like hot cakes. Now I'm not so sure that it will, at least not once word truly gets out that yes, the vibes are unpleasant ! Cheers Grumpy, Garry

[@Grumpysprout]

Hi Gary, I totally agree with you. My old Scram has minor vibes, but their not offensive........I think the 450 has been rushed into production, what it really needs rubber on the engine/frame mounting points 😊

[@economicalrides]

@@Grumpysprout Hi Graham ( so that's who you are ! 😉) Hybrid mentions in a comment down below that this new frame is their first one to use the engine as a stressed member. My guess is that RE hasn't done a very good job of soaking up the vibes with the engine mounts. In that case, it could be a relatively cheap fix. Or if not fix, at least an easy "improvement" they could make. I'd be surprised if this new engine is particularly vibey, given how smooth both the 411 and 350 engines are. I think that it is most likely the way that they've chosen to integrate the engine into the frame, that is causing the issues. I shall be waiting for a Gen 2 450 with better vibration damping engine mounts. This engine will always be buzzy but I think that they can definitely do a fair bit to reduce the amount of vibes coming to the rider and if they do, it would be a bike I would have to reconsider. Cheers Graham/Grumpy, Garry

[@EpicAdamMotovlogs]

Im test riding a well worn in himalayan 450 soon. I'm not going in with high expectations.

[@economicalrides]

HI Adam, yes, I would expect the vibes to still be significant, even on a well ridden example, unfortunately. I believe that with this frame, they use the engine as a stressed member. There is no lower subframe, if I recall correctly. It's likely that the engine itself isn't terribly unrefined but maybe the way it is integrated into the frame is the issue. We all have differing levels of tolerance to vibration. You might find it acceptable. Try to ride at 60 mph for five minutes if you can. If you suffer no discomfort, you should be fine. For me the vibes were not acceptable. The 411 and 350 motors are so much smoother. The 411 can be tuned and modded for the touring thing if necessary, so for me it remains the better all-rounder ! Cheers Adam, look forward to hearing your thoughts on the 450 ! Garry

[@kenbrooks7794]

A nice, measured review Gary. The vibration issue simply isn't good enough in this day and age, It might have been acceptable back in the 50/60s from the old Brit iron but 70 years on, vibey singles simply aren't acceptable! The 450 promised so much and in some areas it's delivered yet in others R/E seem to have shot themselves in the foot. As you pointed out, that rear lighting business looks a bit vulnerable to a drop and the apparent move to 'top heaviness' is a bit concerning on a bike with off-road capabilities, as is the 'elastic' throttle response, the last thing that one needs when the going gets a bit gnarly. Still, it is a relatively cheap bike by todays standards though, so i suppose there has to be compromises. I couldn't be doing with all that electronic trickery to find my way, Apps? what? Bring out the old faithful Ordnance Survey maps and I'll get there just fine! (I'm quite used to getting my leg pulled due to my Luddite tendencies!) Good round up vid anyway! All the best to You and Ruby 👍🐾🐾

[@markdraper3469]

Like anything else in the 21st Century, I'm sure an integral part of the design phase is exploring new ways to generate revenue after the sale. Unlike fully electric bikes, it's a bit harder to build in mechanical features that require "subscriptions" to unlock. Being a '23, my Meteor didn't come with a "Tripper" so it's their loss. But they did have the windscreen. It was just an indication to me that even THEY knew what was least important.

[@economicalrides]

Thanks Ken. Yes the vibes are a big issue and since an engine redesign is unlikely to be on the cards, their only hope of reducing them is to isolate the engine from the frame, bars and pegs as best they can. I wouldn't be at all surprised if a Gen 2 Himalayan 450 has these modifications. I am hearing plenty of talk of people cancelling their orders after experiencing the vibes on a test ride. If they want this model to be successful in the West, I think they are going to have to reduce the vibes somehow. Yes, the only time the Tripper stuff is useful is when you have an address that you are trying to find. Just type it in, hit Get Directions and off you go. Unfortunately that's not something I ever need, I don't live in a big city. A lot of travellers still use paper maps, for the simple reason that if you get lost, you are not reliant on your phone or some app working when you actually need it to work. I totally understand that. Generally I ride in places where I know how to get home, so fortunately I ride without maps and without navigation. These days my rides are just for pleasure and I tend not to venture into unknown territory very often. Cheers Ken, love to the pups ! Garry & Ruby.

[@economicalrides]

@@markdraper3469 Hi Mark, you are certainly not missing out by not having the Tripper on your bike. As I mention here, I would use it if I was in a city and needed to find a certain address because it would be easier than trying to look at my phone map while riding. But that's not a situation I ever find myself in, so on both bikes it's just a clock ( with the wrong time showing 😂 ). It was a nice idea but the way it forces you to plan your route in the app, with no option to import a route from Google, makes it impractical to me. Cheers Mark, Garry & Ruby

[@topazbill8876]

I think that your doing RE a favour by posting such an honest review. Perhaps they can do the modifications that you suggest, and have a really sensational bike instead of this apparent compromise.

[@jonathandeeley6276]

I'm hearing this a lot about the new Himalayan, the vibes and also its get up and go doesn't kick in until the upper rev range. Personally I think it's ugly and bland, that tank - ugh, what were they thinking of. Take away the badging and it could be any other manufacturers bike, it lacks Royal Enfield DNA for me. Having previously owned the 411 Himmi it wins hands down and I won't be considering the latest version. Thanks for your review and thoughts,I think you've made te right decision.🤔👍

[@economicalrides]

Hi Jonathan, thanks for watching and commenting. At some point RE is going to have to start producing, let's say, more mainstream and generic bikes. They are now a major manufacturer with a global reputation. Of course the classic looking bikes will always be part of their lineup but they are reaching the point now where they need to produce models to compete with the mainstream products of rival manufacturers. It's not going to be an easy jump to make. I think the new Himalayan is the first bike in this direction. It has heritage only in as much as it carries the name Himalayan. Everything else about it is brand new and totally modern and generic. I think this LC Sherpa platform is supposed to power a range of more mainstream, modern models to expand RE's market into other market sectors. The trouble is, with that engine and frame combination, they've probably come up with a motorcycle that is less refined that all of their rivals' equivalent models. They certainly need to improve the refinement of the platform as a whole before they start launching any further 450 models IMO. I think they'll have their work cut out making this new 450 platform successful. Cheers Jonathan, Garry & Ruby

[@hybrid1608]

Strikes me the engine being an integral part of the frame there is the problem, engine vibration will travel through the frame 🫤

[@economicalrides]

That's a good point. I think they are using the engine as a stressed member with this frame design, right ? In that case, they will have their work cut out isolating the rider from the vibes. Basically they will have to isolate the rider from the entire frame and anything they've bolted to it ! Good thinking Hybrid 👍🏻 Garry

[@hybrid1608]

Cheers Gary , it just seems logical to me I've never been a fan of engines being a stressed member, the 450 has a lot going for it but this seems to be a fly in the ointment .

[@economicalrides]

@@hybrid1608 I think you may have hit the nail on the head Hybrid. I'd forgotten that the new frame has no lower subframe. I have since googled it and found a photo of the frame and engine assembly. The engine is indeed the lower subframe ! I see this as a positive. Maybe the engine isn't the issue. I'd be surprised if RE designed a brand new engine without paying due attention to keeping it refined. The 411 and 350 single cylinder engines were both very smooth compared to the competition, when they came out. I suspect that the issue could well just be the way they mount the engine in this new frame design. But it should be easier to mount it differently or lightly redesign the frame than to redesign the engine ( not going to happen - too late and too expensive now ). So we can perhaps have hope that RE will find a better way to mount the engine and suddenly we'll have relatively vibe-free, powerful RE 450s to look forward to in our futures. I think you could be onto something here Hybrid 🤔 We need to get RE to look into this 👍🏻

[@hybrid1608]

I was going to suggest it was a weight saving exercise but if so it hasn't made any real difference over the 411. Stick with the 411 mate , good old fashioned simple tech 👍

[@economicalrides]

@@hybrid1608 Yes, or an attempt to make a more "thoroughly modern" motorcycle perhaps ? Either way, I'd say that it has backfired. Worryingly they are already testing new 450 based models in India. If they are using the same frame as the Himalayan, I can't see those models doing too well over here either after this balls up ! A few people questioned my decision to buy Norman last year, wondering why I didn't wait for the super duper 450 to come out. Well, basically I didn't want to miss out on a year's worth of riding, so I bought the bike that was available THEN. Now it turns out to have been the right decision. Imagine if I'd waited a year, bought the 450 and hated it. Then I would have lost a year of trail riding experience and a considerable amount of money in moving the 450 on to a new owner. So more by luck than design, I've fortunately ended up with the right Himalayan 😝 Thanks Hybrid, Garry

[@davericketts9101]

Hi Garry & Ruby 🐶 Very interesting mate, for those that are thinking of getting the 450, it is food for thought. I watched two videos from `Nathanthepostman` about the 450 he has just bought and he raised many of the points that you did. He also seemed rather indecisive as to whether he had done the right thing...some things he liked, others not so sure. Time will tell I guess Hope you are both well Dave & Willow 🐶❤

[@economicalrides]

Hi Dave, well as usual I’ve been avoiding other people’s videos on the subject ( Exmouth Biker being the only exception ) because I want to ensure that my opinion is mine and mine alone, not one influenced by something I watched recently. Now that I have come to my final conclusion, I might risk watching Nathan’s videos on the subject 😇 We’re all good Dave and hope that you and Willow are doing well. Is the W600 back on the road yet ? Carbs sorted ? Take care you two ! Us two. 🐕”Nice one Willers !”

[@davericketts9101]

@@economicalrides Yes, I know that any opinion you give, about any of your bikes, is from your own genuine experience and not influenced by others 😊. Glad you are well and I`m pleased to say that Willow and I are both well. She is enjoying helping me do the W650 and was `flat out` this afternoon zzzz 🐶😏 I got the carbs back from Cornwall yesterday and put them back on the engine. Today, I have refitted both air boxes and to say that they are a tight fit, is an understatement. I needed four hands but only had two. Anyway, I hope to get the rest of it back together tomorrow and give it a run, yay. Willers sends her love to Uncle Garry and Ruby Cheers Dave & Willow

[@economicalrides]

@@davericketts9101 Great work you two ( particularly by Willers who was fastidious in inspecting her eyelids by the sound of it 😛) ! We hope you get to fire up that extremely rare W600 of yours 😜 and take it for a shakedown run tomorrow. 🤞 If it runs like a dream, Ruby says you’ll owe Willers a sossidge for all her “hard work” 🐕 🤷‍♂️ Love from Spain ❤️ Garry & Ruby

[@davericketts9101]

@@economicalrides Haha yes, she does tend to lose concentration on `helping` daddy and reverts to what she does best, very quickly 🐶 I`ll let you know by email if she starts up and send you some pics. Haha W600😏 Ruby is right, Willers will get a treat for all her hard spanner work. Cheers Garry Love from Somerset Dave & Willers

[@economicalrides]

@@davericketts9101 Hi Dave and Willow. Sorry, but for reasons that I cannot fathom, this comment landed on KZbin's naughty step and I've only just found it ! Yes, it would be great to see some more pics, love that bike, love your fluffy assistant ! Ruby is now patiently awaiting Willers' feedback on the sossidge. Ruby isn't familiar with UK sossidges but she is of course interested to find out more ! Good luck you two, you're nearly there ! Wake up Willow ! Wake up ! 😝 Garry & Ruby

[@manh9105]

all this noise about vibes seems to be coming from CFMoto enthusiasts /promotors

[@economicalrides]

Interesting theory. In my experience it seems to be coming from people who have actually ridden the bike. Some of those even had a Himalayan 450 on order ( not a CFMoto ! ) and following a test ride, cancelled their order. I've no idea what CFMoto enthusiasts are talking about and I'm not really interested in their opinions, just my own and those of other RE enthusiasts I know. The way RE has used the engine as part of the frame on this model is the most likely cause of the vibrations. Hopefully they can come up with a way of improving the engine mounts to dampen the engine vibrations going into the frame. If they can do that, I will reconsider the Himalayan 450. Cheers ManH, ER

[@stephenmundane]

The MAM Journals had a test ride and had the bike up at maximum speed (well into the 90 mph range) and didn't find the vibrations excessive. As you say, people have different tolerance levels or perhaps the bike he rode had a few more miles on it? Time will tell on this issue I suppose.

[@economicalrides]

@@stephenmundane To be fair, I have had people from India telling me that it smooths out at about 80 mph, which is not really a big positive when the speed limit is 70 mph ! 😂 Unfortunately I think the worst vibes are likely to be in the 55-75 mph range, which is precisely where you don’t want them if you want to use the bike for touring, which is one of the main reasons why many 411 owners were eagerly awaiting this new version. I think RE can probably find a better way to mount the engine to help with this issue in a future revision. We’ll see. Thanks buddy, ER