1200 miles around Ireland on Himalayan 450 - Is it better?

One of the tours I ran this year was around Ireland following much of the Wild Atlantic Way.
I took the new 450 Himalayan. Here's my verdict on it as a touring bike.
I've turned comments off until Monday when I'm back from my holidays.

[@nathanthepostman]

A short sperate video adding context to the weight comment I made in the video. As some of you will attest, for a lot of riders it's not going to be a problem. For shorter/older/weaker riders it could be. But go and try it for yourself... kzbin.info/www/bejne/hn_Kfqp_pNR6aKM

[@chris-s]

Did the same test today, the 1250 was heavier 😂 just kidding , still I don't have the issue the bike for me feels nimble enough, but fun to see the difference ,

[@jocon6656]

I'm a 37 yr old, 5'6, pretty fit bloke. I sat on a 452 at a dealer and immediately envisioned trying to wrest it upright in muddy conditions, slipping, and having it fall and snap my leg sideways. Irrational? Maybe. But I know I'll have that thought every time I go to take it off the stand. A crying shame.

[@user-gil-e]

I am very happy with the 450 and believe the limitations of the 411 have been addressed. Good bike, at 9 grand in Australia, it's unbeatable.

[@blackskunk54]

Yep, totally agree

[@mantarayal]

Mate, this is the best and most honest review I've seen of this bike. And the first I've seen that says the 411 might be better. Thanks.

[@SimonGough64]

I am 59 and I have just been touring the Peak District on my 411 for a long weekend. I have had it three years after a break from biking for 20 years. It has built my confidence steadily. So glad I chose it (to be honest mainly because of Itchy Boots and your reviews). I realised on this latest trip that I have lost my nerves and was gleefully bowling round the Peak District bends. Had a grin on my face the whole time. Even when you 'over cook' it a bit in a bend it is forgiving. Great bike, I won't be buying a 450.

[@jeremysmith1969]

Thankfully, a real review from an owner and not the press! Thanks!

[@1990-t1j]

From what you say, I like the sound of the old one better, especially when you mention the buzziness. The Scram 411 appeals to me more. Excellent video. Nick

[@ChrisC85]

Fair comments, I own a 450 and for me personally I didn't like the 411 because of the reasons you and many others liked it for.

[@CosmicSeeker69]

How weird Mr Postman - you've just expressed everything I felt - but without me even seeing this bike! I've been bantering with a friend who told me this was the bike I should have got (Instead of the Voge 300R) and I told him that if/when I buy an RE - it would be the 411..... 11/10 for common sense and honesty, as always

[@Fractal379]

As someone dithering between the two, who has heard the case for the 450 ad nauseam, it's refreshing to hear your perspective. I can only hope your channel has more of the same, but you easily earned a very well-deserved sub! Thank you for a real talk. 👍

[@g4joe]

Have you checked the Indian youtubers channels about the chassis breaking ??? Go check first. 👍

[@itsallabouttheridekeepingi4449]

Hay your probably “ the small capacity expert 👍☝️, just to address the 450 problems. 1. Chain and sprocket change for longer legs on road speeds . 2. Taller touring screen & 3. THE big one ☝️ side stand - lean angle ( in the past I have fitting hockey pucks the stand bases ( that lean over to far ) at least 3 bikes . Works a treat , cheap , solid rubber and as a bonus gives the bike better spreed on sand soft ground etc . And I agree ☝️ I’m 56 and happy to just cruise along ( most of the time ) I have a 300 Rally and a Moto Guzzi V85tt - I know you had one . Regards Paul from Australia.

[@nathanthepostman]

Thanks Paul. Yes totally, lots of ways to remedy it. I was out on the 400X Triumph yesterday. It made me realise that what I don't like about the Himalayan is the engine. That Triumph engine is so flexible, strong power, a bit low geared but where the RE is hunting between 2nd and 3rd, the Triumph can be in 2nd, 3rd or 4th.... there's just so much flex in the power. Makes it so much easier and enjoyable to ride. Triumph engine in the Himi chassis and we'd have a winnter. Would like to try the taller screen. Again, the Triumph with no screen has less turbulence than the stock Himi screen. It's odd. And agreed, side stand pucks would be good, but I think for those who are struggling with the bike as standard they're still going to struggle with the top heavy weight, especially in dirt, tight situations etc. The last two days I've had 5 different riders take out the 411, the 450 and the Triumph. Three went away to buy 411s. No one wanted the Triumph or 450 Himi. The biggest thorn in the 450s side is the bloody 411! But look. I think the 450 for the right rider it's going to be an absolute winner. A younger stronger rider perhaps, who wants a great road/trail bike and to ride with a bit of spirit. Perfect for that job. Keep us posted on how you're getting on with yours.

[@volt8684]

@@nathanthepostmanbloody fab reply😂

[@jdabel1]

I really don't see the side stand lean as an issue. I've had other bikes with more and less lean angles.

[@nathanthepostman]

​@@jdabel1many people won't find it an issue. But speak to a dealer and ask how many potential customers are having a problem that they didn't have on the previous bike. A lot of old boys bought Himalayans. It's a big number of customers to lose.

[@authorsauditions]

Taller touring screen - I think that depends on where you ride. Riding these bikes in India - I wanted the wind to hit me - was the only way to stay cool.... ish. Also, rarely was I riding fast enough or long enough at high speeds where the wind got tiring.

[@johncranwell3783]

What i like about you Nathan is you totally assimilate with any bikes you ride and from that you speak from your gut about how any of them perform....your truth....i like that a lot. Thank you.... I'm coming back to biking wanting a single plodder with all the aspects of RE 350/411's but with a bit more staying power at the top when one occasionally needs it...perhaps im looking in the wrong direction 🤔

[@KevinPartington-c2s]

I watch Joe Ryan touring Australia on his 411and even watching him is relaxing. A very good review thanks.

[@JamesWilson-ve9zi]

Great review, I sat on the 450 and did find it heavy of the side stand , it's a very big bike. The appeal of the 411 was the easy maintenance, the 450 has shimmed valves. I wanted a long distance relaxing ride which the 411 seems a lot more suitable for. The 450 too me is a completely different bike from the 411 which is not what I wanted.

[@motechRevolution]

Wow, Nathan this is so spot on, I don't think I have ever ridden a bike that so endeared the rider like the 411. I sold mine because my wife wanted to ride pillion. It was a very reluctant sale with only the motorway leg of the trip to the dealership to buy an SM 650 alleviating some of my sadness. I've never really embraced the new 450 and said so on release. Like you say to the none 411 owners what you never had you cannot compare. But the 411 is a future classic for sure. Great video mate, ride safe✌️

[@oozlefinchoozlefinch1376]

I am 68, I rode in my 20’s (Honda Hawk 400 and BMW R65) got married at 30, had kids, the bikes went away. Divorced, retired, and moved to Mexico, second childhood kicked in, and now have a Royal Enfield Himalayan 411. I find she’s ideal around town and in the country, not much good for the highway as it will not go over 120 kph. The 450 will not have its debut until later this month in Mexico but I have seen and sat on the bike in the back room at the RE dealership, yes, the side stand is a little short but it does not seem to be a issue with me, and it is easier to get on its center stand than the 411. In two weeks, I will find out if the 450 is for me or not, one thing I will not trade in my 411, she’s a keeper (even if she has fallen over all by herself on two occasions).

[@garynicholls6964]

My scram 411 has taken me places I didn't now existed. It's the bargain of the century.

[@hartley383]

Really interesting review Nathan. Hands up, not ridden the 450 but have owned my 411 for 4 years. It’s such an endearing little bike. It has its faults but it puts a smile on my face every time I ride it. It’s first test was to take me and all my kit to your Odyssey at Sweetlamb. I couldn’t quite believe how good it was at that task. It chugged along all day getting there, encouraged me to take the smaller roads. B roads all the way to Devon last year too. An off-road novice it gave me the confidences to tackle the whole weekend. Part of that is its size , easy going nature and its low price point. The new model appears to miss the mark a bit, I’d almost say it’d have been better to call it something else as it doesn’t seem to have the Himalayan DNA? ( Something I said the very first time I saw one which didn’t go down well😉) On the sidestand issue. Yes it can be modified but this is the very first impression of the bike that a prospective buyer gets.possibly intimidated by it before riding a yard. Add luggage and for some it’s just too much. I will ride the 450 at some point , maybe I’ll change my mind, I doubt it though.

[@ikoo811]

Very good summary and review! Thanks. I look forward to your next CFMOTO 450 tour video

[@chris-s]

I had the 411 , and yes i loved that bike, but i do like the 450 more , i do not see the things you mention but its all depends on the user, i like what they have done, and i defently feel i sit IN the bike just like the 411 , and i think its easier to get on the center stand than the 411 , and the side stand, hmmm i have no problem with it .. i also dont have any issues with vibrations , and i still feel that the 450 has the tractor effect like the 411 , and can accelerate when needed.. the list for me is longer with positive things than the 411

[@hikerbikerallnightcamper1393]

Thanks Nathan for the honest opinions 👍🏻 the 450 has taken everything I love about the 411 away for example the simple air cooled long stroke motor analog clocks etc

[@godfreytomlinson2282]

The long stroke engine was the magic sauce of the 411 Himmy. This one has sold it soul and ended up in the middle of a bunch of average beginner bikes.

[@drdubb76]

I really appreciate this review. Others had me thinking about the 450, despite my short legs, but I might just stay with my 411.

[@nathanthepostman]

Thanks dubb. Yes, give one a try and keep an open mind. Maybe the old one will suit you best

[@drdubb76]

@@nathanthepostman I'm 5'6", 70 YO, bum knee. I've been considering three wheels, (not yet) tried a Kawasaki Eliminator to get low and light, but just didn't get the right "feel". The 411 has spoiled me. I think you described it perfectly.

[@KillickGreenieRN]

Spot on observations there Nathan. I've got the 411 and took this one, 450, out on a test ride. I liked it for all the reasons you gave but by the same token I really wanted it to be the 411 with a bit more grunt. I might yet buy one but at the minute I'm looking for a reason to buy it which is not a great starting point for a new bike purchase. I'm in the demographic you mentioned (old fart), Ive got the Interceptor and the Classic 350 both of which I love for what they can deliver on the types of rides I use them for. It felt to me like the 450 was looking for a niche to fill. It's a cracking bike but I'm not sure. Cheers.

[@grumpsrides6074]

I found, when I test ride/reviewed the bike, it lacks character. I own a 411 Himalayan, and totally agree with you, this isn't what we were hoping for! 🥺

[@chris-s]

It was exactly was I was hoping for , I loved the 411 but the 450 is just better for me in every way so good job to the RE team

[@soggybawsmoto]

As a 390 Adv owner, i was really sold on the new 450. The marketing team had done their job, i was sold. The 21" front wheel, tubeless spoked wheels, centre stand, factory pannier options But i considerd the weight, and the rear light/indicator arrangement, and your videos, and meh - ill stick with 390, especially as ive got it how i want it now.

[@JasonFollett]

I returned to riding after a 15-year break, so the 411 spoke to me as a mixture of my old bikes - a compromise between XT250, XT550 Yamahas, BMW 650 GS Funduro, and blue from my Virago 535 - and I wanted lower power and speed to dampen any poor riding decisions. What I didn't like about the F650GS was the cost of premium fuel, and maintenance and that it was top-heavy and allergic to wind. With the 411, I got the comfy seat and position of the GS and the fuel economy of the XT250, although I miss having a smooth motor. I expect the top-heavy Himalayan 450 will be an issue for many, and I wonder how it will go in strong winds - weight distribution is a big deal. If I was returning after 15 years to a 450 Himalayan, I doubt I'd have much fun without the strength, skills and confidence that 10,000km on the 411 has given me.

[@Ijusthopeitsquick]

Another brilliant perspective, Nathan. I just tested the 450 and the first thing I noticed was the out-sized effort needed to lift it upright from the side stand. I enjoyed the bike once I was under way but I wouldn't feel confident riding it on a muddy lane. The 350 long stroke engine is much more pleasing, smoother and more relaxed, but it really needs another five horsepower to keep ahead of HGVs on the motorways.

[@jerzywoking1699]

A main concern seem to be lifting it off of the side stand. I am sure, as with the 411's too long sidestand, (and yes, my 411 got blown over a few times, as I live in a windy location), someone will come up with a solution, or a longer stand. Think the issue is whether any alteration will be able to clear the main stand or frame. Much as I like my 411, after test riding the 452, I found it a much better bike for me, and where I ride locally and tour to

[@thebestevertherewas]

You must be a stronger more experienced rider.

[@burcotwoody9657]

A good honest review and i agree with nearly everything you said. I rode the new 450 last weekend and was really excited to try it but after a 45 minute ride i must admit i walked away a bit underwhelmed. I was all set to order one before i got there but I am glad i tried it first as its not for me. I have had 2 411's in the past and i must admit with the deals available at the moment i am very tempted to get another. The dealer I borrowed it from is also a CF Moto dealer and i asked him how well the new Himalyans were selling and he said there was an initial rush but sales have now slowed down and he said quite a few people are waiting to try the CF Moto 450 before they make a decision.

[@CosmicSeeker69]

also, nearly all sales have slowed down. Not just M/C but car and caravan sales all stagnating.

[@trechen100]

A proper bikers review. Thank you.

[@andrewblock5087]

Seems like the best way forward would have been the 411 with 30bhp and more torque but the same curve, 6 gears with 6th as an overdrive, and the improved suspension the 450 has, and loose 15kg.

[@richardadkins6998]

That’s a great real world review. For the points you made about the 411, are all the point I love about the bike. It’s a bike that just as you say wants to be your friend and companion on the journey. For me personally it’s bike that is a pleasure and joy to ride. 452 I guess is really a road orientated bike, almost a roadster in trail clothing maybe? As you say a 411 with the 650 interceptor engine would be a very interesting combination, sort of “Super Himalayan” or “Himalayan Continental”. It’s a shame the 411 I assume won’t continue to be available 😔

[@bobspence714]

And there you have it.... "Simple, Honest, To the point, To the rider".... How come for so many this ease of speak is so difficult. You make it look so pure Nathan. Which it is and should be. But it seems your special talent. Have you ever written a book? If so I would like to buy it. If not, consider it. I would buy it .

[@mikehurley5052]

He has a book out.

[@bobspence714]

@@mikehurley5052 thanks Mike,,, just found it on Amazon,,, looks like a couple of'em.... I will be ordering them. Finding myself very much in line with his philosophy of motorcycling.

[@garth62]

I love your observations - I am 5'8 & 63 as it happens and been a trail rider since the 80's. The best bike I ever had (at the time) was my Yamaha XT250. went everywhere. I was dismayed by the constant year on year of bigger, higher, faster heavier and more agresive.These days I only have one bike so a want something that can do the motorway miles but also light enough to pick-up when off road. I am please that finally, more mid range twin "adventure bikes" are entering the market and the CF moto 450 looks promissing. Loving your stuff and enjoy Iceland.

[@phillipsteadman6261]

That's a great presentation...the two bikes are so close ...and both appeal to a very niche group....I like my 411 as iam old 64 and nackered...so haho..

[@thebrowns5337]

I watch a lot of bike reviewers and Nathan is the best. Concise, honest and always spots every little detail. It does seem manufacturers are pushing things the average rider, the majority or riders, do not want or need. I don't get to test bikes but as I say I see many reviews from many different types of reviewer. I also see the comments and I think motorcycling still has a lot of toxic masculinity. This minority are at all levels in biking including in the IAM, ROSPA, Police rider programmes - they all talk about making progress, pushing on... they say riders are not up to the task if they aren't making every overtake ASAP. It's nonsense. Motorcycling should be fun, it should be for stress releif, there is no place on our poor quality overpopulated roads for riding like a racer everywhere. Sadly the few that want that because they think it makes them seem hard are very vocal and they get the attention of the industry. They want edgy bikes, they don't want safety features as they think it makes them look weak or like they lack skill... they are holding us all back. It's frustrating. Thankfully respectable folk like Nathan are calling the manufacturers. Otherwise we just end up paying more for stuff that doesn't fully suit most of us. The majority end up comprimising for the few.

[@nathanthepostman]

Thanks Mr brown. Don't get me started on the road captains obsession with making progress. Fine for chasing bad guys. But an awful approach imo to teach the average rider just wanting to enjoy their riding.

[@keepitreal1547]

Fantastic analysis 👏

[@Reppyboyo]

Such a shame it didnt quite meet what you were hoping for. I look forward to your thoughts on the Cfmoto 450MT whenever it finally reaches UK shores.

[@roviwoteap2375]

Great honest review. The fact that you compared it to the previous model too. 👍

[@muzzkeg8172]

Just watched Charley Boorman’s 450 puff piece. I will listen to your opinion every day of the week.

[@leeblackburn15]

As a 411 owner this has answered a few questions for me. I'm going to try a 450 as well as the CFMoto 450MT at some point later this year but my 411 may well remain in the stable owing to the reasons you have highlighted here. Thanks for the honest perspective.

[@randomguy9893]

Good luck getting a test ride, if you order a 450mt, your looking at delivery in Feb.

[@leeblackburn15]

@@randomguy9893 Not here in New Zealand. I've already had a test ride of a 450MT (Last week) and am looking at delivery in early Sep 🙂

[@peter236uk1]

I have to say feel the same I love my 411 far from perfect but its a great bike. When I rode the 450 it felt that I had to push the bike more and that is not really my riding these days. I would have thought a 650 would have been ideal. If I want to do Motorways miles then I can jump on my old pan I recently brought.

[@nathanthepostman]

Yes, I never thought I'd say it but a 650 Super Himalayan would have ticked the right boxes. Strong smooth power. More relaxed. Ok on gravel track and good on the motorway. It was the bike a lot of people were asking for.

[@peter236uk1]

@@nathanthepostman They already had a cast iron product and to make such a change seems odd to me

[@keepitreal1547]

I feel RE will regret seizing production of the fantastic 411. The 450 could have still been made under a different name, it would have suited & poached many riders from other brands but it's not a Himalayan in my mind. Himalayan 411 All round 450 Two different bikes, two different riders?

[@papabattery]

Greetings from India! I'm 59, I have considered the H450 and dismissed it for precisely the reasons you've mentioned. RE is known for it's torquey engines with great bottom end grunt, if I want the rush of top end power, I'll get a KTM390ADV with 20kg lesser weight. Waiting for the Classic 650, and if they rustle up another 240kg behemoth like the SM650 or the Shotgun, I'll get the good ol' Classic 350 or maybe the Interceptor. Cheers!

[@biker_dale]

Great video and I do love the 411 over this new one. I do think they've created this new one and not got it exactly right. Sad to say but when you look at them together the 411 just looks beautiful next to this generic, chinese looking bike.

[@Peter234100]

As a 5’8” 70 year old I totally get where you are coming from, I was at a main dealer having alloy wheels fitted to my Classic 350 that I have had for over 2 years now, absolutely love the relaxed nature of the bike. They had the 450 Himmy sat outside and the mechanic said exactly what you have just said , they have made the bike for a different type of rider, then said try taking it off the side stand, nightmare if I wanted one that would have been a deal breaker. Have to say rode the 411 when my Classic was having its first 300 mile service and just found it too agricultural after the Classic, but found the 411 dead easy to ride and take off the side stand 😊

[@nathanthepostman]

To be honest the 350 classic is the benchmark royal Enfield imo. Such a great blend of classic relaxed riding and modern refinement. A few were on them on this Irish trip and they were ideal bikes for the job

[@Irishrover1]

Okay , I owned a 411 for two years and have just today ridden the new 450. What difference a vastly superior bike in every way. My god all the poor people who can’t lift the bike off the side stand what the hell are they going to do if they drop it, hire a crane. I’m 66 and had no problem with the side stand in fact I was sick of picking up the 411 when the wind blew it over. The new bike accelerates better is safer on the motorway as you are not a mobile chicane. The old bike was good because it was cheap and plodded along, I know which one I prefer 450 wins easily 👍

[@nathanthepostman]

So yes, they're just not going to buy it, so won't need a crane.

[@Irishrover1]

@@nathanthepostman thought you said a guy on the trip bought one and now complained about the stand, do people not actually try these things 👍

[@nathanthepostman]

not always and neither do I, not if you want an early delivery and it's not in the showroom yet. ​@@Irishrover1

[@davidroberts7490]

Hello again Nathan. Just noticed Givi and Kappa now have some bits and pieces ready for the 400 Triumphs.

[@nathanthepostman]

Thanks David. Will have a look

[@martinkeefe7107]

Love the honesty

[@savingclassicmotorcycles]

Absolutely legendary video Nathan :) great to see such honesty about it really is brilliant massive help for all of us trying to sus out what it is an isn’t. Dad will enjoy this one when he’s home from hospital always both really appreciate your views on the bikes. I wish they had focused on getting it as light as the 390 etc makes such a big difference It’s a shame so many companies are not listening to the consumer, an there’s this massive disconnect I agree I think they are chasing down the let’s turn adv bikes into the next superbikes an that kind of defeats the object. Personally I wish they had really focused on improving the faults and flaws on the 411 an stuck with the longstroke platform having had a 411 an riding a 97 year old flat tank Norton which is a long stoke it’s one truly underrated an amazing platform. Shame to see it go. I had my concerns about vibes when they mentioned the power a the engine configuration it might have been more suited to a 400 twin especially if it’s that heavy of the side stand. I’ve been exploring what to get dad if the T7 becomes to heavy for him or to much seat height wise after the radiotherapy mum came back from the hospital after the surgery before with instructions whatever you do don’t sell the t7 yet haha so the motivation is working a treat for him which is why I got it for him. I reckon when he’s ready for a change though it might end up being a scrambler 400x or a t100. As we are just gonna be road riding now with his meds and stuff a the change to his bones. (Stage 3b/4 prostate cancer) I think it hammers home really don’t be affraid to change bikes or chase experiences if you are able cause you never know how longs left gotta treasure every single day :)

[@peakrider4886]

You make a really valid point about getting a bike based on its intended purpose. I was in a RE dealership today and he said he wished they’d called it something completely different as it is a completely different bike to the original. More road focused than off road were his words. Please do me a favour, when your Dad is looking for the next bike, try the Triumph by all means, but also try and find a good used Kawasaki W800, I think he will love it.

[@savingclassicmotorcycles]

@@peakrider4886 thanks we shall check one out :)

[@webbsteroni]

While I certainly appreciate this perspective, the 450 is far more fun in my opinion. In fact, I wish it had more nuts. But in fairness, the roads here in Texas are much larger and accommodating to a higher output motor that wants to be pushed. Hopefully a 650 twin is in RE’s future!

[@henk2591]

Thanks for this honest review. I'm looking for a bike like the Himalayan, KTM390 ADV etc. The 450 is a very good looking bike, but may be a second hand 411 is the better option? I will try out both after watching this video.

[@andrewblock5087]

get a brand new 411, being dicounted quite heavily at the moment.

[@TheTizianBlue]

Thank you, your opinion is the same like mine. Have the 411 from 7/21, my dealer had the 450. Nice but not mine. See you.

[@zorrotreps]

Excellent analysis. I was also looking forward to more power. The 450 test ride was very disappointing. Keeping the 411 and T7. Cheers

[@vicfdez7830]

No one can deny progress.

[@syedenhammydude6196]

14:13 good god Nathan... you described a friend, not a motorcycle!

[@nathanthepostman]

Yes I described a motorbike and the attributes I would like on a long tour. If some prefer a more exciting bike on a long tour then they've not got the perfect partner

[@jdabel1]

I've done 1000km on my H450. I think it is leaps and bounds better than the 411. The side stand? Full turn your handle bars to the right and it's not a problem. TBH, it's no worse than standing up my XJR1300. I would agree the rear brake is a bit bitey in the dirt however, a slight peg adjustment should fix that.

[@nathanthepostman]

I think if you're saying it's no worse than your xjr1300 that's kind of the problem. For people who don't want that mass then it will be too heavy. Turning the handlebars doesn't alter the weight of the bike. And won't make it any easier to lift when its laying on the deck. As you say, you love it, which is the main thing.

[@Bordpie]

13:21 "We just wanted a 411 with a bit more power". If you put your ear to the ground and read through the Indian auto websites (Zigwheels Upcoming Royal Enfield Bikes), there will be an upcoming Scram 440 at some point within the year, same air/oil cooled engine as the 411 but with a larger bore, and will replace the scram 411. By no means is the Scram equivalent to the Himalayan, but it is very similar and for most people who do mostly road riding it's probably the better choice. It should have an extra 4hp, taking it to 28bhp. With some other mods you could probably get it over 30bhp. It's also worth noting the 477cc big bore kit for the 411 engine, which with other mods adds 10hp, (30 rear wheel hp giving an extra 50% compared to 20 rear wheel hp on the 411). There is even a 500cc big bore kit but this requires increasing the bore in the engine casing by 2mm, taking it up to 38bhp. According to the Zigwheels page, there is a Himalayan 650 in the works, supposedly ready for June next year.

[@nathanthepostman]

Interesting. Thanks bord. Will keep an eye out for that.

[@TimothyGreen-ko2vm]

I think you're wrong about the bike. It can ride slowly using clutch at walking pace, or 6hpm from idle. Weight off the side stand is a function of a full tank, it feels a lot lighter half full. This in many ways similar to my XT 660, tank on top. You can get it off the side stand by using your hips from a standing position, same as if you were pushing the bike around. Then get on. Its suspension is far better than the old one, brakes and handling too. It could be geared and fuelled better for low down pull, see Triumph 400 X. That has an excellent drive from low and smooth pick up, it will pull at walking pace from idle or even up a slight incline. It looks like a step up in build quality over the old, more similar to a Suzuki V-Strom or NX500 in quality.

[@nathanthepostman]

I think I'm right about the bike for the example you give. If the new Himalayan feels similar to your XT 660 then it's too heavy for the typical Himalayan rider who wouldn't have bought a 660 for it being too heavy. They bought the 411 instead. Totally agree about the low speed refinement. Once moving it's perfect.

[@AGardenShed]

Interesting. I want to try one but not convinced. the weight likely will be an issue some bikes I struggle with getting off the stand since I did my leg.

[@andriusbaziuk4331]

Great and honest review, thanks

[@Trigsbroom]

Well, that's stabilised 411 prices! The prices slumped in anticipation of the 450 and many 411 riders, including myself, I'm sure, were preparing to jump to the 450, but I have a renewed satisfaction with my old bike! I'll try a 450, and to be fair, it could be that the vibrations will calm down after a few thousand miles, but the 411 is a seriously tough act to follow. The bike does everything I want, except cruise at 70-75 in a relaxed and unstressed manner, but if the 450 doesn't do that either, there seems to be no reason to change bikes.

[@speedfinder1]

If I close my eyes, you could be describing the exact riding experience of the Fantic 500 Rally, all except the fact that, the Fantic is nearly 50 kilos lighter. I have a 2022 Aprilia 660 and that is exactly what you say you are looking for in an off road/tourer. It weighs the same as the Himalayan 450 has usable power from 1000rpm up to 9500, (80 BHP.) There are proper, "user adjustable," rider modes and most importantly, cruise control. 70 mph is effortless, even in the softest mode. The huge fuel range and rider comfort make this my top choice as a 60 year old returning rider who wants convenience, comfort and no fuss riding on and off road.

[@nathanthepostman]

Yeah that Fantic is a really good option, especially more road work. I thought that Zongshen 450 engine was a cracker. And as you say, nice and light. It would have been good if this new Himalayan was more similarly weighted to the Fantic. The Triumph 400X is a bit more like the Fantic.

[@nathanthepostman]

I think you make a good point about the 660 as well. I do wonder if this 450 sits too close - weight wise - to the next class up such as that Aprilia, and whether those bikes make for a better bet. But more choice is always a great thing!

[@fredblogd8448]

On a different note, Nathan can we have a "Green lane fitness DVD" !

[@jemtreays]

So here's a question Nathan.... you're riding down to the Sahara thru the atlas mountains. Which bike do you take?

[@nathanthepostman]

Great question that. And you know what I'd probably take the Himalayan 450. To see if I could gel with it. But I know I wouldn't have the confidence in the sand/dirt as I would on the Voge, or the old Himalayan. Actually I need to decide today which bike to take to Iceland for some trail riding and road. And at the moment I'm thinking triumph 400x, because there's not a lot of long distance miles to get there. And I think it'd be a good gravel bike, but maybe not a good sand bike. But totally you could say this kind of trip is what the 450 Himalayan was made for.

[@anthonywillcox9864]

I simply knew it ! Thanks for the honest comment. 👍

[@patrickcavanaghkilmartin]

I live in Argyll. Here there's no greenlanes, but a few tracks to ride visiting people. I live down a track. I ride a Honda NC750X DCT. I'm looking at what will replace it in 3 years. I want to go touring here & in Europe with my daughter. She will be 17/18 by then & riding a 125. It sounds as if I ought to buy a 411 to go ensure I can pootle along with her. I can also ride my biker for work. I cover the whole of Argyll & Bute as a nurse working in homelessness. Is a 411 going to do all of that OK? Argyll has some quick riding, lots of bends, hills & big distances. I feel it might. I had thought the 450 would fit the bill, but I'm unsure after watching this. I'd welcome any thoughts, please?

[@nathanthepostman]

Hi Patrick. I think the 411 would do the job but really the best thing is to get a ride on both and make up your own mind. Which Himalayan is a bit like politics. People soon pick a side once they've ridden them both!

[@deltabluesdavidraye]

No one is addressing that the 450 is stressed member which no matter what anyone claims is not as strong as the double down tube complete frame of the 411.

[@kepa504]

650 interceptor is similar , heavy to lift of the side stand compared to a triumph twin.

[@Grumpysprout]

Seen the new 450 at the NEC and ordered one from my local dealer ......test rode one two weeks ago and was so disappointed i cancelled the order ! Says it all really 😢 going to keep the Scram 🎉

[@nathanthepostman]

What didn't you like about it Grumpy?

[@Grumpysprout]

​@nathanthepostman Vibration was the main reason plus pushing it fairly hard to get it to moving. It's not a true Himalayan to me ......just my view 😢 I think your suming up says it all

[@florme6494]

Is it vibrating more because it hasn’t been set in yet? Maybe after the first service and 500k’s it will be better. The stand is ridiculous, little trick to newbie’s, turn the wheel in the opposite direction and it makes it easier to bring it up. Higher top speed, better suspension, water cooled, 10,000km service intervals and 3 year warranty are definite upgrades. But I see your points for how you like to ride it Nathan.

[@ChrisJ-ru6ek]

The demo I rode at done 1900 miles and seemed smooth to me

[@florme6494]

@@ChrisJ-ru6ek​​⁠interesting, maybe it’s the famous RE inconsistency. Some vibrate less than others even if exact same model. One would hope that has been sorted out.

[@Godshole]

Well said.

[@MrKorky123]

Sat on the 450 yesterday at the local shop and my god yes it's heavy off the stand 😮.......sat on the 450MT straight after and felt feather weight in comparison.......

[@canyonblaster1]

I didn't know Ed Sheeran rode motor bikes? I just ordered one of the first 450's coming to the states. Same gold rims.

[@nathanthepostman]

Yeah the music career dried up

[@CosmicSeeker69]

The biggest thorn in the 450's side is the bloody 411! So far, THE quote of 2024 (and more truth!)

[@christaylor8784]

Hi Nathan just a thought have you ever ridden a 411 Himmy with a one tooth smaller front sprocket I have one and I feel it has made it more fun but still kept that slogging feel I absolutely love my Himmy Keep up the good work m8 THANKS

[@nathanthepostman]

I haven't to be honest Will have to give it a go. Cheers!

[@blackskunk54]

It is lighter than the 411. IMO, The only reason it feels heavy-ish to some people is the fact that it leans over too far on the side stand. I am a total wimp & nearly 70 and I can lift it off the side stand easily. It doesnt feel heavy at all to me, maybe cos I am quite tall I get better leverage, remember Physics at school. Maybe like Nathan says the 411 seemed lighter. Dont be put off by that, it is a wonderful bike to ride in every respect, a bit vibey but I think that will get better once one gets into the thousands of miles as is often the case. When I go to my garage the Interceptor often gets left whilst I take the Himmy 452 out. BTW, Its a 452 in name not 450 according to the V5. I have ridden the Scram and liked it but Its not as good as my HIM452. The 452 does take a bit of getting used to gears wise (ratios). I am 6' 1" and have dropped the pegs 40mm and its ergos are perfect for me now. I prefer it to my Transalp 750 which I traded in. Be interesting to hear what people think of the Guerrilla 452!

[@BikingChap]

Interesting stuff. I can't help but think this is simply aimed at different riders. Whereas the 411 attracted us old duffers who liked the simplicity, character and durability they thought that the group this would be aimed at are more after the image and looks of being off road capable than actually taking it off road, hence why the luggage frames around the tank appear more for show. I guess it was inevitable, simply using an engine of similar capacity but water-cooling it was always going to allow for more power but that was always going to be at the expense of low end heft. Perhaps they should have looked at say a 550 but then weight heads even further north. Those of us with the old bus that is Honda's NC750 will get the whole low rev chugging appeal and where the new Transalp has a bucket load more power, it has little more drive at the low end and feels more frantic, again many prefer the boring old NC...

[@slowjames6904]

Good honest review

[@dungspreader]

I've heard a lot of criticism about the sidestand . Go see a welder and get a wide foot welded on it to lift it up a bit .Problem solved . People spend silly money on these fancy sidestand " feet" for BMWs KTMs etc and everybody cheers and says "well worth it - good mod " . I think it's a trivial criticism and very soon one of the accessory companies will have a "solution". My only concern about this bike would be the vibrations . This nearly 70 yr old prefers a bike with a bit of go in it and the 411 never appealed , either in performance or looks and the stepped seat is awful . But there is no perfect bike out there .

[@nathanthepostman]

I would say the side stand is cast aluminium rather than steel so not sure how easy/hard that's going to make it. I personally think the side stand isn't the main issue. The main issue is the weight that's sat high, and can make the bike difficult to catch and hold in trickier conditions. Ultimately none of this is an issue for anyone who doesn't see it as an issue, but reports are suggesting it is a big issue for a significant number of people. Hopefully there's enough new customers coming into the brand to compensate for those they lose.

[@dungspreader]

@@nathanthepostman Welding aluminium is not a problem for a professional welder . High centre of gravity is a concern though . Most riders add so much luggage that exaggerates the problem . The roads in my area need a bike with a fair turn of speed to keep up with or pass the semis who will run you off the road . But it would be nice to have a bike with a bit of off road ability to explore the trails .

[@thebestevertherewas]

@@nathanthepostman True, RE's leaving us old farts in search of new younger riders Which doesn't exactly suits RE's own heritage of Old

[@hctim96]

would you change the front sprocket to 16 tooth? mix things up a bit?

[@nathanthepostman]

I'd thought of that but I think you'd make it even more fidgety between gears on the slower stuff. Around 20-28mph in town or on rural roads you just can't find the right gear on it. I think raising the gearing may make it worse, but it might improve it. So I might give it a go and see.

[@dewipeach]

As the the Bike stands in the wild.. the clues are there.. but it's not a Himalaya..! think its so use to the 411. The front-bars, Headlight and screen lookout of place.. did the tank need to be as large.. 411 had it's faults first model, can things change here too. Should the Scram get the 452, it needs full blown Motard.. heard it here first..

[@GiteshSK-046]

The 411 is not even close when compared with this 450 ,this one is leagues ahead in terms of performance, equipment & attention to details

[@nathanthepostman]

I totally agree. It is better in all those ways

[@ncbinline6114]

While I know they're hardly comparable machines, I'm very curious about the power to weight ratio when compared to a DRZ400s? Anyone have seat time on both?

[@neilanderson2374]

Cracking looking bike, but this confirms my thoughts that the ugly 411 is the way to go as a first big bike. That said the new Husqvarna Svartpilen looks to be a definite improvement

[@nathanthepostman]

I haven't ridden one of the 400 huskies but I'm increasingly a fan of the 390 KTM adventure that I've had for a while now. I almost wondered if they'd have done a norden 400 - a toned down 390 - then it could have been just the ticket. Will try and try a svartpillen

[@steve3cv]

The 411 is the 2 wheeled equivalent of a series 2 land-rover. Unfortunately the 450 isnt a series 3 but a land rover discovery (circa 2000).

[@andrewblock5087]

Love that anology, being an old Lr owner about to buy a 411. it warms my heart

[@pegasus76b]

Sono d'accordo con te ma credo ci siano dei margini di miglioramento. Per il cavalletto ho fatto una modifica da un fabbro e ora la moto é ben bilanciata. Per la nervosità della moto in modalità eco ritrovo un po' la 411. Penso che tra qualche mese con delle centraline aggiuntive e rimappando il motore si potrà risolvere in parte il problema

[@BrickBrain]

Thank you very much for your insights! What is your experience with the Rhinowalk saddlebags on your Himy? @nathanthepostman Any Wobbeling or fear it might chafe on the tire?

[@nathanthepostman]

They were ok. Nothing caught but they did run a bit close to the wheel. Frames would be good.

[@BrickBrain]

@@nathanthepostman thanks so much!

[@themoog3889]

Think I'll wait till the CF moto is available to ride , my local dealer is agent for both so ill have the opportunity to ride both the same day and give it a fair comparison....only reservation i've got re the CF Moto is taking a risk on another chinese bike is the fact my X-Cape has been in the dealers since February awaiting a mis-fuelling issue to be resolved !

[@nathanthepostman]

I think the biggest problem with the Morini is the lack of dealer,/importer backup. Seems almost none existent. This CF Moto should fare better I think what with more dealers and the KTM connection (you would hope)

[@themoog3889]

@nathanthepostman I agree ! I got nothing with the bike apart from keys and a receipt , no manual or service book because they hadn't any , had it serviced at 500 miles a week later and by the time it was due its yearly service the dealer had disappeared, no-one locally wanted to touch it so I had to service it myself and the importers are whingeing about the warranty because I have no service records ! The issue is with the ecu ( they think ) and still waiting for parts , unfortunately I think Moto Morini have shot themselves in the foot by not taking the bike to Motorcycle Live 2 years on the trot , its old hat now because everyone has seen it ....only plan I've got is if it doesn't get fixed then it'll get stripped down and I'll convert a mk2 Versys into a spoke wheel version with the Marzocchi forks on ....sell the rest of the bits ! Shame really I like the bike .

[@joshdoddadbod]

I think for the specs if the bike was sub 400lbs it would have been a bit better. I like these 450 singles but the market is pretty much non existent so I went with a used T7 and have no regrets.

[@Reinemachefrau]

I reckon the new 450 is designed to be an aspirational bike for young Indian entrepreneurs because India is the main market for RE. Personally, I think it will be interesting when this engine goes in the Scram.

[@nathanthepostman]

That's a good point that about the scram. If they ditch the tank guards and reduce the tank size (which I don't suspect they'll do) then it could be a great option

[@himydad1499]

I would rather see a Himalayan 350. That engine gives even more smiles per mile.

[@nathanthepostman]

Agreed, that would have been a great option

[@tastroman]

I have to ask because your reviews tick the boxes for travels who value practicality over shear performance, have you ever owned a scooter for daily errands and around town stuff?

[@nathanthepostman]

I've not but I've often considered a burgman, which I think would make a great travel bike

[@tastroman]

@@nathanthepostman I'd highly recommend giving a used scooter a go for daily life errands. I like the 250-350cc range as they can carry you out of town if need be but much like the practicality of the 411 on trails, scooters offer that package on road. Great weather protection, built in storage, low center of gravity, step through, and belt drive. That said, the suspension is generally pretty bad and you have to swallow some pride. I've owned one of each, a motorcycle and scooter most of my adult life and I can attest that 95% of my commuting and errand running is done on the scooter. Scooters can kind of give you your old ct90 experience but only on the road. And to get back on topic, I'd agree that if you could drop the 400x engine in the 411, you'd have something special. (former 411 owner now 400x owner).

[@GeorgePapanikolopoulos]

There's no doubt the 450 is a much better bike than the 411 - better suspension, brakes, engine, better ground clearance and the same weight as the original. It's ticked most of the boxes that the old one was not adequate at. You can go slow like the 411 but you can push a bit more if you feel like it and overtake while going uphill with relative ease. And it will definitely attract a wider spectrum of riders - not just the 411 riders. The original was designed as being the cheapest adv - touring bike. Not necessarily for novice or short riders. And you are exaggerating saying that a 650 twin version would be the same weight as the 450. It would be a lot heavier! I'm sorry but I strongly disagree - all the negatives that you keep repeating are easy fixes - side stand extension lower seat etc etc. It's not a perfect bike but miles better then the previous one. It's definitely a very carefully designed evolution of the original concept.

[@nathanthepostman]

I take all of your points bar the one about the 650 twin being heavier. It will be heavier on paper but in the real world it'll feel the same weight, much like the 260 kilo GSA felt lighter off the stand than the 197 kilo Himalayan.

[@GeorgePapanikolopoulos]

We both speak hypothetically on the 650 twin platform in Himalayan disguise - but I mostly speak about figures and not how the bike will feel. If they deicide to build a true adv version 650 - which to be honest I'm crossing my fingers for - it will have to have longer travel suspension, beefed up frame etc so I believe it will have to be heavier than the current iterations. As for how it will feel....hopefully we'll be able to find out!

[@Futuremodi]

My thoughts exactly. 411 owners might be disappointed with this one but it will attract young riders. I'm seeing this in India. A lot of young riders buying the new Himmy and going to Himalayas after running in.

[@nathanthepostman]

Great to hear. I genuinely hope it's a great success as it'll only lead to other great bikes ​@@Futuremodi

[@peakrider4886]

You can’t easily fix the fact that the weight is carried higher up so it’s more top heavy than the 411. And that ultimately means it’s a different type of bike to the original Himalayan. As Nathan has said before, and it was repeated by a RE dealer I visited today, it would have been better if they had called the bike a different name, given it a different focus, and either kept the original Himalayan going, or upgraded it to meet the shortcomings that owners wanted.

[@BraapPacker]

What revit jacket is that my man?

[@nathanthepostman]

It's a revi it sand 3 urban, about 6 years old so now discontinued. It's ok. Never been very waterproof but fits nice and lasted well enough.

[@drdoolittle5724]

Wow, I'm sad that after all the RE effort, Nathan dose not agree ! Who should they have employed during development one asks!

[@nathanthepostman]

Anyone who understood why the original was popular.

[@crazybiscut]

The way i see it is re 411 - porche 911 air cooled re 450 - porche 911 water cooled Guess which one has appreciated more over time? the 911 air cooled.

[@CosmikDebriis]

Most people are giving it rave reviews but I've been a little sceptical myself. It's a bit heavy compared to something like the cheaper Voge 300 Rally, but perhaps slightly faster on the road. On the other hand the new CF Moto 450MT is much the same weight but massively better spec and for (slightly) less money. If, as you say, you loose the charm of the old Himalayan, then I'm not entirely sure of its purpose?

[@manh9105]

heavy ? it's lighter than 411

[@nathanthepostman]

Yes it's amazing what a free trip to Sardinia or India will do to the review of a machine! But yes, it makes the Voge feel very light by comparison

[@chris-s]

That's why you never should listen to reviews , but go out and figure things out your self

[@CosmikDebriis]

@@manh9105 The thing is... I'd be adding the crash bars and (unless it's standard UK equipment) bash plate to the CF so final weights would likely be very similar (quoted 10kgs difference as standard). The Voge meanwhile is about 25kg lighter which is considerable. Of course it's where the weight is on the bike that makes all the difference when trying to pick your bike up after a little "off" ;-)

[@nathanthepostman]

The voge is a good 35 kilos difference So does feel a fair bit lighter ​@@CosmikDebriis

[@godfreytomlinson2282]

Great review though. Royal Enfield did a good job, they just picked the wrong direction to go in. WE WANT LONG STROKE! WE WANT LONG STROKE!

[@Geshmaal]

Funny hearing someone who disputes the idea that more gears = more good. If you've got a torquey vehicle that's clearly not for racing then having fewer, longer gears is pretty nice.

[@stevec-b6214]

Seems like the designers listened to all the negative comments all these `pro` testers gave the 411`s low power, but failed to listen to the everyday riders who bought and loved it, as I do. I also believe that lots of negatives came from people who never even rode a Himmy, maybe even didn`t ride much, if at all.

[@howardmann5634]

I think the next 411 will be cf moto 450 when it comes out

[@ktmtravels3727]

Initial reviews point to a buzzy motor, and not particularly light, either. Still early days though.