VFD introduction / application / information

A crash course on VFD's and
how to make a practical choice on drives and motors. Every application is going to have special needs and should be evaluated with the intended use in mind.
Probably my worst video to date .... :-/

[@markkrantz1516]

This was awesome, I use these same VFD,s on my equipment that I run to tinker, Bridgeport mill, Acer 1340 lathe and boyar Schultz 612. I really appreciate this I never set them up as you did I just turn them on when I am going to use that piece. I’ve learned more from you. Thanks your a smart Cat, Mark arvada colorado

[@bstanga]

Great video Stan, I'm installing a fuji VFD on my mill today and trying to figure out how to use the existing cam switch, this helped alot. thanks for sharing

[@KnolltopFarms]

Wow, thanks for the tutorial Professor Stan! You made it very interesting, and easy to understand how useful they can be and so widely applicable they are. Thanks a bunch! I had a friend whose job it was to program all sorts of equipment using solid state analog devices and controllers. He was talking about industry's conversion to digital control interfaces and his trying to learn all of the programming for it and retrofitting all of the conveyors, canning machines, pumps, etc...drove him into the ground, literally. Time well spent, now back to the field...Aloha, Chuck.

[@k5at]

After watching MrPete222's video on adding a VFD (TECO) on one of his drill presses, I gained an interest in doing the same for my drill press. I like the SMV Lenze unit. Your explaination of VFD's is great and greatly appreciated. Thanks for sharing!

[@ShadonHKW]

Hi Herb, It's funny, probably my worst and choppiest video is quickly rising on the view count, thanks for the comment. Stan

[@danbentler9742]

I suppose I am more of a VFD expert than a machinist - at least so far. Have watched several other machinist explaining VFD and setups. This one is the BEST I have seen so far. Couple small points. 1. As someone else pointed out be very careful at low speed operation. Fan motor runs too slow to cool the motor. I would be very cautions at speed 10% rated motor speed or less without additional cooling. 2. Motor shaft speed = (Freq x 120) / poles. So 2 pole is 3600, 4 is 1800, 6 is 1200 and 8 is 900. Your 900 RPM drill press motor is 8 pole. Slip at full load is about 5% as a thumbrule for motors. Slip applies to both driving and braking ie overhauling load. 3.HP = (Torque X RPM) / 5252. So a 1/2 HP 3600 RPM motor will produce 1/2 the torque a 1800 RPM motor does. If you gear a 3600 different (ie double the reduction) then all will be OK. 4. Over baseline ie 60 Hz (1800 RPM for 4 pole) torque drops off inverse proportional to RPM ie at 3600 RPM torque would be half that at rated 1800 RPM. I would assume high speed = fine cut therevore real low torque demand from load (cutter) most likely no problem. I really like the quick reversing that VFD can do. Great for power tap and I think also as a E stop - might keep you from another wrap around the shaft so to speak. Also liked yuor points re VFD enclosure - one guy has cheapy with all terminals exposed - wont last long with chips for sure. A planar VFD may have hard time overcome inertia torque demand at startup of lathe. It could be done I suppose with the torque boost command. Highly recommend vector control for this application. Mills and especially so drill press planar could work fairly well. May save a few bucks - but savings may be so minimal that in long term vector could easily be preferable. Dan Bentler Seattle

[@ShadonHKW]

Hi Dan,All great points, thanks for the view and comment!Stan

[@phuzzz1]

Hi Stan, incredibly informative! A bit of irony, some years back I was given a Sheldon variable speed drive lathe complete with all the accessories because the drive system had went to lunch, I of course hauled it home and attempted repairs, key word there being attempted, I inquired with everybody I knew about some sort of fix, and the overwhelming opinions were that it could not be repaired without a kings ransom and a witch doctor, it was a diabolical looking thing. I did get it to work briefly with a different motor and a very crude cone pulley-kinda-setup, but it was not going to be a viable fix, and I did eventually barter it off, but man that would have been an awesome machine in proper working form, I probably would still have it , it was in that good a shape! Your setup here would have made the repair a simple rework, and would have rendered it better than original....... Water under the bridge as they say. Good stuff, a great lesson to retain. Mike

[@ShadonHKW]

Hi Michael, While VFD's aren't a "cure all" they sure have a lot of uses, and can open up some possibility's that simply couldn't be done even 10-15 years ago. Too bad about that lathe, probably would have made a sweet set up. Happy new year, Stan

[@masterofnone]

I wish I watched this before I got the cheap Chinesium version from Ebay for my drill press. Now I am looking for a box to put it in. Price will come up to same as the stuff you have at the end. Thanks for the informative video.

[@electricaltyler5998]

Thanks for the video you always have clear concise information. That would be cool if you did a video on plcs, and plcs controlling a vfd

[@timothyrousseau2611]

Fantastic video!! Thanks for your time posting it!

[@carlmic7]

Thank you so much! I have lots of luck with the AC Tech VFD's

[@ryan11199]

I like how every piece of equipment is neatly installed and wired. Those Lenze drives are German engineered and American made. So they have to be good and reliable.

[@stephenellison4991]

I recently purchased a Bridgeport Series I mill with a 2 J Head (2HP/8 amps) My current mill and lathe are "hobby" size, 110V. We have other shop equipment such as a drill press, table saw, band saw and such which are all 110V although the table saw and band saw can be wired to 220V. This is my first experience with 3 phase equipment and researching the requirements to install the new mill. I've been reading and watching videos and your video was just wonderful. It answered so many questions in just a few minutes. After watching and reading your comments and answers I plan on purchasing a Lenze 3 HP/9.6 amp, probably from Wolfe. I will try to duplicate the setup you have on your mill, probably coming off a nearby sub-panel with a 10 or 15 amp 220 breaker. If you have any wiring diagrams, programming recommendations or other recommendations for our other equipment we would be very appreciative. Thank you!

[@ShadonHKW]

The Lenze drives are US built with US written instructions, very intuitive. Drop an e-mail if you have any specific questions.

[@RickRose]

Very well explained. I wish I had come across this video before I started fooling with my VFD. Mine is a WEG. I didn't choose it; it came with my Bridgeport. From your description I'm guessing it's Chinese, because it has lots of exposed connectors. I hooked up a pushbutton box but now I wonder whether I would have been better off using the existing barrel switch, just like you did with your DoAll. Too late now!

[@keithsshop6559]

Very nice tutorial. I am looking at using a VFD for a wood lathe (2HP) and would like to use a remote control for On, Off, select switch for F/R, and a 10K pot for speed. I like the looks of the box you have on your drill press. Do you know where I can purchase something like this or did you build it up from scratch. Thanks, Keith

[@ShadonHKW]

That is actually a pushbutton station for a roll up door, UP / DOWN / STOP, should be pretty easy to find (and cheap)

[@mikenewman4078]

Where you say you have a 4 pole motor doing around 900 rpm that means it is connected in consequential pole mode. These motors are common on drill presses. The consequential mode gives a generated 8 pole mode. There are only 4 physical poles but by altering the starts and finishes of the coils they appear as unipolar, which means a non wired consequential pole appears in the iron work between the physical poles. Check the available leads and you will find the ability to run at 1800 minus slip or 900 minus slip ( 1500 and 750 at 50hz). Slip is necessary to generate torque, normally in the range of 2 to 5 percent i.e. 1725 for 4 pole at 60 hz. Exceed the rated slip for too long amd the smoke will get out. Normally a drum controller takes care of this conversion. In the range from low speed to rated speed the system operates in constant torque mode ( vector configuration can increase bottom end torque via PWM) above rated speed the system becomes constant power. Try and exceed frame power rating and the smoke gets out. Vector drives are also great for traction applications because of these characteristics.

[@Canuck014]

Thanks Stan, this video was extremely helpful. I was wondering is you could suggest a VFD solution for me. I have recently picked up an awesome find for next to nothing, an older Swedish made gear head drill press. It is a 3 phase, 500v and 550v 2 speed internal motor with 1 hp. I only have 110v to my shop with no option of upgrading to 220v. Can I use the VFD from 110v input to 550v output? I was also wondering, as it does not have a backstop on the gears can I add a 2 speed forward and revers switch? Sorry if these are stupid questions as I am a Millwright/Machinist not an Electrician. If I could figure out how to do it, I could attach pictures of the information plates on the press. Any help will be much appreciated. Thanks Ray Hanson

[@kurthanson4106]

Nicely done, thanks for putting that up.

[@3rcamera]

Hi Stan, did you ever try a dynamic braking module manual like Ac Tech Lenze 845-409 or similar? This would be very convenient when you have some sort of production where stooping the mill or lathe is quite desirable. Thank you sharing and presenting so nice. Radu

[@GarryFullerSr]

Great video and a lot of Great Info. Thanks.

[@keldsor]

Nice instructional video ! Maybe too a warning on LOW COOLING of the motor at low frequences/RPMs !

[@ShadonHKW]

Oh yes Keld, good call ..... OTDP motors have pretty good cooling for low speed operation, but TEFC motors need auxiliary cooling for extended low speed operation. Good catch! Stan

[@ryan11199]

I hate to get technical but I am into this stuff. Single phase (split phase) is not poly phase why? Well single phase/residential/commercial power is actually (1) phase tapped off the power lines and split into two phases on your transformer outside. The difference is that single phase is is not as power dense being 180 degree power rotation. Where as real two phase is 120 degrees apart. If your voltage is 208 volts then your have poly phase/three phase if you have 220-240 volts then you have single phase. He may very well have two phases if so he would be better off in the long run upgrading his service to 3 phase. Poly phase is very rare like he said.

[@johnnason7019]

This has been a great help but I have a couple of questions, I'm going to put a 1/3 hp SMvector drive on a 1/4 hp motor since that's the smallest version of the drive they sell, as long as I set the current limits correctly, should there be any problems? Also does the motor have to be inverter rated? I couldn't find something that small that was. Thanks

[@timramich]

Any drive worth a lick will also have an external wiring accessory available to hide the wires just like yours came with. TECO included.

[@fordsonmajor89]

Thank You, Great information, are you still happy with your setup? Is there anything you would change? So much information out it can be very confusing. Gerry

[@johngalt9262]

most knowledgeable vid on VFD's I've seen yet. Thanks :) Only question I have so far, that was generated by watching is, Constant vs. Variable Torque. which is best for a mill?

[@ShadonHKW]

+John Galt Constant, hands down.

[@johngalt9262]

awesome. thanks

[@monkeyvideo1029]

Stan, Thanks for the great video, very informative. I was intrigued by your clean room application. You showed what looked like an analog gauge measuring pressure, what did you use to trigger pressure changes for the VFD? I was interested in making what Oneida-air has on their current dust cyclones, which is a VFD blower to maintain constant pressure (so I would need some type of variable pressure gauge). Their add claims the Baldor motor varies from 3500-4500RPM is 75Hz to fast for a standard 2 pole motor? Thanks in advance, Carl

[@ShadonHKW]

Hi Carl, that is a Photohelic by Dyer Instruments, it comes with high and low switch gear (adjustable) I have overdriven motors up to 125 Hz with no problems, two things that need to be considered when overdriving 1) never exceed the tagged FLA on the motor 2) motor is inverter rated

[@monkeyvideo1029]

Thanks Stan. I hadn't considered the motor inverter rating. I have a Dwyer magnahelic, good to know they have the photohelic! Appreciate the help.

[@davewood1772]

Thanks for this. Impressive and well presented. How bullet proof are these units. Can they handle voltage spikes/surges? cheers.

[@ShadonHKW]

These drives have been in service for 3 years as of now, no issues so far :)

[@johnm9171]

As others have already said, this is without a doubt one of the best demonstrations out here on VFD applications and capabilities as they pertain to us "garage shop" guys. THANK YOU. Question for you...I have those exact same VFD's to be hooked up to my mill and lathe. I noticed that you didn't mention any protective fusing between the VFD output and the motors (protect the VFD from excessive current that might occur should the motor short or become overloaded) . Any particular reason why?

[@ShadonHKW]

Hi John, Fusing in between a VFD and motor is never recommended, VFD's have internal protection and are adjustable (via parameter group) for overload protection. Thanks for the view and comment.

[@timeymundson9061]

Not a good practice to disconnect a motor from a running drive!!! Some O/Ls have issues with variable frequency.Typically all Fusing and external O/Ls are ahead (Line Side) of the Drive

[@Bowtie41]

VERY informative!Thank You for sharing!At about 12 min,you mention the 2 different types of torque.Which are you using for your machinery(Lathe,Mill,Drill press)?Also,some of the VFD's I've been looking at are rated in Kw's.Is there a way to translate that into a HP rating?Stay safe during this Covid crap!

[@ShadonHKW]

I use the torque boost on the lathe and drill press, mainly because I am too lazy use the mechanical speed reduction by swapping belts. Both would have the same result.

[@franali.design1076]

Thanks for the informative video. Are the parameters the same for the momentary start/stop switches as they are for a maintained switch? Also, can a momentary "spring to center" lever switch be used for forward/reverse control? I already had decided to buy this same VFD based on your video. Thanks!

[@ShadonHKW]

No, a simple parameter change will change the control for momentary to maintained, the book is easy to follow and shouldn't give you any trouble :)

[@dekonfrost7]

I have to say other than some omissions your vid was excellent. Really almost no one is gonna run at 10% long enough to cook a motor. And 900 rpm 8 pole, yup. Odd ball, you bust have counted the wires. All things considered great vid. I didn't even think about a potentiometer until I saw your vid. I'm gonna fix up an old beat up lathe. Good old,too good to throw away casting.i appreciate you buying American. Everyone should thanks

[@irishnavyman03]

shadow just an FYI the "exposed wiring" you are talking about in the bottom of the VFD is actually called the Nema 1 Conduit Kit there are some manufacturers where the drive comes with the kit already installed and others you have to buy them separate, reason being is some people may want the open chassis style because they plan to mount the drive in an enclosure themselves and the would need to remove the nema 1 kit.

[@nobleemeka2986]

please where can I locate the fuse in the SMV vector frequency motor

[@BrennanHoyt]

Very good video and I've read most of the comments, but I still have a lingering question. I have a 1 HP drill press that I've replaced the single phase motor with a 2 HP 3 phase. I had this brand new motor laying around and it mounts up nicely and happens to have the correct shaft size. I bought the 120v 1.5 hp Lenze SMVector drive (biggest in the 120v sizes) to run it. I haven't turned it on yet, but I'm pretty sure I read that the size difference shouldn't be a problem, as long as I keep the load below 1.5 HP. What are your thoughts on this type of sizing?

[@ShadonHKW]

Borderline, with intermittent light duty use it shouldn't be a problem, but sometimes machines get a new home and someone else may push this machine harder than it should be, the drive will always protect itself against overload, but this will chisel away at it until one day it finally gives up.

[@timeymundson9061]

where did you get a 120V 3 phase motor from?

[@BillyTpower]

great video, I have watched many and your is the best so far in opinion Thank you. quick question. do you want a variable torque drive or constant for machine like your shop examples. .your video explained the difference but i am just confused about which one is suited for a shop.

[@ShadonHKW]

Hi Bill, typically a vector drive (constant) is used in a machine shop environment. Thanks for the view and comment.

[@JDFritz-vd2fk]

I am wondering if I am able to control multiple SMVectors with one start stop I have 3 large exhaust fans that were supplied with 1 SMVector each but I need all three to be able to turn on from one point and be controlled to be shut off with a timing relay if you have any suggestions it would be greatly appreciated.

[@ShadonHKW]

Hi JD, if you use 1 VFD as the "master" and the others as "slaves" use the terminals TB16 & 17 for a relay output, set parameter P-140 to "1" to close the N.O. contact when master drive is running. See page 32 in your paperwork.

[@morrisgallo2361]

Excellent vid. You offered to answer question, so here goes. 1. It appears you run the VFD's off 110V. Other then the increased cost of the actual 220V wiring, what are the advantages and disadvantages of running the VFD off 110V vs 220V. 2. Our machines use constant RPM motors driving either gears or pulleys to control the ultimate speed at the work. Engaging the gears/pulleys to slow down the RPM provides added torque with the slower speed. a. With the VFD you actually slow down the motor RPM to slow down the machine speed, does this mean you lose torque? b. Since you control motor RPM with the VFD, does this mean you bypass the machine's gear/pulley systems, or in what range do you leave them. 3. I am considering the purchase of an old industrial bandsaw that uses step pulleys to change speeds, it is three phase. Can I use the motor and just leave the pulleys, or do I replace the step-pulley system with a simple pulley? 4. I have a large rotary converter supplying 3-phase power, can I use the VFD's to manipulate the machine speed? Thank you for any info you may provide.

[@ShadonHKW]

Hi Morris, 1. I use the 240 V models in my shop, 1 HP is the limit for 110V input on the Lenze drives, they are also slightly more expensive. 2A. A mechanical gear reduction is always superior to just slowing down the motor. 2B. Always spin the motor as close to the rated RPM as possible, the vector control helps boost low end torque, but it isnt a miracle worker. This is of course for a constant torque application where your load is a constant no matter what speed. 3. I would leave the step pulley until you find a combination of motor speed / mechanical drive ratio that gives you a suitable operating range. 4. 3 phase incoming power from an RPC will work fine, the VFD will even clean up and re-align your phases, damage can result from stopping the RPC before the VFD is given a stop command, so be careful. Another note: When setting up mechanical gear reductions, always choose a lower ratio, you can always overdrive the motor to make up for the lost final RPM. I run 60Hz rated motors to 120 Hz regularly, but always consult the motor manufacture for max RPM recommendations.

[@dlwilliams76]

Thanks for the great video! Have you ever run the remote keypad? I have the SMVector on a South Bend lathe and cannot get the remote keypad to play right.

[@ShadonHKW]

Daniel Williams Never tried the remote, what is it doing?

[@dlwilliams76]

Shadon HKW I found the problem, and the instructions are not clear in this area. So, in case you do option for the remote keypad sometime, this is what you do. There is a youtube video by Lenze that shows what to do. Terminal strip #1 and #4 need to be jumpered. That wasn't clear. Of course, then P100=03 and 400=01 for remote keypad control and then it plays just fine. Its great for remote mounting the drive and then having local control and programmability right at the lathe head. Thanks again!

[@MotoWanderer]

Very informative, thanks for sharing.

[@ruderickpabon6851]

Hi there. I have just installed a lenze smv vfd wich is the the gray one. On a bottle labeler machine. It controls two motors one .33 hp and one 1hp motor the old original fuji drive burn up. Now the lenze vfd is stalling the machine. How can i compensate for motor slip?

[@ShadonHKW]

Give a call over to Marshal Wolf, talk to Chris with all your specifics. www.wolfautomation.com/?(roi)+branded&+wolf&

[@chad5990]

Shadon, very Informative video, thank you. I contacted Wolf Automation and asked about an AC Tech/Lenze VFD for my 2 hp, 3 phase Baldor motor. I have single phase residential 240V input. Their engineer in sales suggested buying a 5 hp, 3 phase input VFD model, and derating it to avoid over current problems. I was confused as the model I looked at says it's rated to control a 2 hp motor. Any suggestions? They get considerably more expensive as hp goes up, especially in the NEMA 4X enclosure. I need that due to metallic dust, this set up is for a belt grinder. Thanks again for the great info!

[@chad5990]

I thought I'd update this for anyone interested. Wolf Automation engineer later contacted me and stated he had made a mistake, my motor would run on the 2 hp model VFD, but he highly recommended going to the three HP model to avoid over current fault codes on start up, due to amp draw, which I did. The three horse will handle 9.6 amps. Also, no filter ( line voltage) is normally required, but can be added if needed later. They are not integral in that unit. Hope this answers a question for somebody and saves some hassle.

[@shammient]

Great video, very informative. I have three ACTech drives in my workshop, on on my mill, one that will end up on the lathe and one for a belt sander. Can you offer any advice on minimum motor speeds? I see that you're running your lathe as low as 8Hz but one of the others bottoms out at 20. Any rule of thumb on how low is safe?

[@ShadonHKW]

+Sam Horsepower takes a hard dive below 20Hz, stalling the motor (temporarily) doesnt hurt it, but you wont be able to complete your operation. Mechanical speed reduction should always be used to get the motor into its usable range.

[@shammient]

Ok, easy. I'll use that as a baseline. Any chance of getting some details on your three button momentary for/rev/stop setup? I tried to set my mill up that way this afternoon but couldn't get anything to happen. I followed the manual as best as I can tell...?

[@shammient]

Hey again, sorted it out. Was a simple NO/NC mix up. It's all up and running now and it is sweet! 10k pot for the speed reference and push forward and reverse. Superb!

[@tedjohnston8972]

Very informative video! I wish I had watched before I purchased Teco VFD and enclousure for my Bridgeport. For future reference, where do you buy your control switches etc.? I bought mine at Automation Direct.

[@ShadonHKW]

+Ted Johnston That is a good supplier, I get mine from Marshall Wolf.

[@petemclinc]

Great video Stan. Do you think I could run (2) 220V, 3Ph motors at the same time not exceeding the amp rating of the VFD? Such as a 3 HP lathe motor with 0.25 HP coolant pump motor. Thanks!

[@ShadonHKW]

Yes, it can be done, with some limitations, 1) you have to install motor protection for each individual motor (thermal overload blocks) wired with the switchgear into the run enable of the VFD, 2) both motors will run at the same speed synchronously, there is never any way of slowing just 1 motor down. 3) you cannot exceed the amp draw on the VFD.

[@ShadonHKW]

Also look at this video, it shows running 2 motors off of 1 VFD. kzbin.info/www/bejne/pYq4ZWxvhMt9i68

[@petemclinc]

@@ShadonHKW Good Stuff, Stan you're the VFD Man! Could I switch off the coolant pump motor at the overload block when not needed? Thanks again!

[@Jonas-I]

Great vido! Most people seem to recommend wiring the vfd directly to the motor of a mill. Seems like you chose to go through the switch on yours. Would you recommend doing it that way over wiring direct?

[@ShadonHKW]

I am using the mill's old drum switch to apply a run command (control circuit), the power wiring goes straight to the motor.

[@Okie-Tom]

Hi, thanks for the VFD information. I have long thought they were better than a phase converter. Especially on some of the woodworking machines I rebuild. Tell me, where is the best and cheapest online website to buy these? I heard about your site on the Oxtool channel. Thanks, Tom

[@ShadonHKW]

Hi Tom, I buy mine from Marshall Wolf Automation, good luck with your install.

[@m3photography]

Great Video! A friend of ours got an old 3 phase - 230v lathe from a buddy. Without going through to much work, is it feasible to just use the VFD to convert 220v single phase to 3 phase and use all the old controls? or is it always necessary to convert the old motor to something newer?

[@ShadonHKW]

Old motor should work fine, just using the VFD for phase conversion is easy on motors.

[@petemclinc]

I have the same situation, I wanted to use the original controls, motor starters and contactors to control forward, reverse, jog, coolant pump, etc. Using a VFD to supply line power (220VAC, 3PH) won't work in conjunction with these controls. You have to bypass the controls and wire VFD directly to your motor and control the VFD either locally (touch pad) or remotely with start/stop, forward/reverse, jog or potentiometer wired into the VFD. Most VFDs have a terminal strip to allow for this wiring up of a separate control panel. The other option is a rotary phase converter which will allow for use of original controls but they are a lot more expensive.

[@russgould707]

My 1980s Jet mill ,( looks like a Bridgeport J head ). Has a 2 hp 3 phase motor on it. The motor is a 2 speed motor ( which I have never seen before on a milling machine). It has hi and low forward and hi and low reverse on the switch. Would this VFD work for me to run it on single phase? The motor tag says 2/4 pole. 3400 and 1700 RPM.

[@hg70]

awesome video, intelligent guy.

[@steveu235]

Thank you for the video. when should we use maintain switches vs momentary switches

[@ShadonHKW]

If I was buying new, it would always be momentary, if you are doing a retrofit and want to keep the original pilot switching to keep an original look, then the drive can be programmed accordingly.

[@ve6but123]

Yes this is the main reason lathe machine has every thing, I.E forward, revers, jog and foot brake, only problem when I am threading against shoulder and thread are not very long, I sure like to have slower speed not young any more and do not have fast coordination to move cross slide away from shoulder. Main question I have, when I install 3 phase motor at the same time I have to supply 220 volt to the rest of lathe function right? Motor is 2 HP at presen can I install 2 HP 3 Phase or I can go bit smaller? Thanks

[@ShadonHKW]

I wouldn't step down in HP, but the RPM motor you choose will have an effect on the low speed torque, I think *equal to* or slightly *lower than* your existing RPM would be a good choice, make sure the motor is VFD rated and overdriving it to get back to your max RPM will be no problem.

[@manuelmonroy3267]

Really interesting video. Lots of info even if I got lost :)) I have a question tho..I want to install 220 in my garage. Now there is an existing wall outlet for a electric dryer that we dont use. I checked and they pulled the circuit breaker for it. Can I use that same wiring behine the outlet as long as I reinstall the 220 v circuiyt breaker to run a 220v milling machine and or a lathe....I am speaking of the electric motors. Now theVFDs would this be an easier way to go instead of rewiring??? In other words do I need to start with 220 coming out of the wall?? How bout the length of cord from the machine to outlet how long a cord can one go ?? Thanks Stan for sharing some of your knowledge again. You always amaze me. Manny

[@ShadonHKW]

Hey Manny, A dryer circuit works fine, I would keep your cord length as short as possible, maybe 20 feet. Most dryers are 40 amp so the breaker will be oversized for your application, recommend changing the breaker to lower value so everything is protected, the wire being oversized wont hurt anything.

[@manuelmonroy3267]

Alright..thanks for that I did some research but am not an AC person. I respect AC especially high voltage. I ask all I can before I mess with it. Manny

[@Redbull357]

i just bought one of these drives. how many poles should the reverse switch have? any tips on connecting it (reverse switch0 to the drive? thanks

[@ShadonHKW]

Redbull357 single pole, your not putting any power through the switch gear, its pilot duty only.

[@roofermarc1]

I have a 17" delta 3 ph 1/2 hp drill press, a 1949 model. Is it possible for me to have it setup just like yours but on the controls I want a small disconnect and a pot mounted on the left side of the fwd rev stop control?

[@ShadonHKW]

+Marc Lewis Yes, very easily done, these VFDs can be controlled from the keypad or remotely.

[@WAVETUBE84]

60 Hz (cycles per second) x 60 seconds = 3600. Synchronous (synchronous to the input frequency) motors run at divisions of the 3600 cycles, depending upon the number of poles. usually. good info.

[@melgross]

If someone really wants to do this, and needs more than a small speed change, it really pays to spend the extra money and buy an inverter ready motor. Those use special insulation, and wiring to allow high speeds and not have the heat destroy them. Otherwise, for a 4 pole motor, never run it at more than 120Hz, or 3600 rpm. Even that is pushing it. Everything I converted to VFD drives have motors I replaced with inverter motors. If you do that though, and the motor is in a box inside the machine, make sure the inverter motor fits. Many are somewhat bigger. And size your VFD properly! Ideally, the VFD should be sized one size larger than your motor. So a 1 Hp for a 3/4hp motor, etc. also, make sure there are no contractors between the VFD and the motor. The motor needs to be directly wired.

[@serhioromano]

Is it precise enough to make a thread on lathe? how do you do ratio for that?

[@ShadonHKW]

Too many variables for that, belt slip, rotor slip, motor bog based on loading, you would need a rotary encoder to maintain a constant RPM and feed rate, your getting into CNC territory now.

[@StraightThread]

Very informative. Thanks for sharing this information.

[@proctor1234567890]

Thank you, this post was very helpful.

[@RGTification]

I have a 6913 clausing lathe 3hp, 3ph motor, what type of VFD would you recommend, I am interested of powering the motor but utelizing the Clausing varispeed.

[@ShadonHKW]

If the machine is already set up with variable speed and ready to run in all respects, I would recommend a rotary phase converter. www.americanrotary.com/ has a discount code until June BARZ17

[@jayess813]

On your small drill press I would love to see a wiring diagram on how you wired the momentary push on off reverse buttons. Did you have to use a latching relay? I am using a similar vfd but it isn’t exactly like yours

[@ShadonHKW]

Most VFD's can be programmed for momentary or maintained contact, no relays required, check your manual.

[@jayess813]

Shadon HKW Thanks it seems it seems I manage to buy the only one that doesn’t offer 3 wire control. Looks like I’m stuck with a toggle switch or something similar.

[@Nebsivraj]

Great video! Thanks

[@m3photography]

Great thanks, and I guess using the VFD for such a motor is not recommended? I don't have the specs here, but the lathe must be 40 years old

[@bones549]

Nice Walker turner!

[@tonybaggett1984]

Do you know of any resources for setting up VFD's? I'm running a 3hp table saw and a 1.5hp jointer I was wondering if you could set up to run two machines off one VFD? Any advice for running a table saw on a VFD and preferably setting it at one speed and turning it on and off using the factory switch. Thanks.

[@timeymundson9061]

you can run all the 3 motors in the shop on one Drive (SIC). If you only have single phase supply you could run that in to a large drive and run a panel at say 60Hz 3 Ph. you'll need to do the proper balancing, calculations and de-rating for the system. Not an Ideal or Efficient system, but could work for 3 Phase motors. BIG ISSUE would be, it WILL FRY any equipment with reduce voltage or electronic control if you play with Frequency or don't filter appropriately!!!

[@wnebergall]

I have a Logan lathe with a single phase 1 horse motor. What would you recommend for VFD and motor in a hobby machinist environment? Bill

[@ShadonHKW]

Hi Bill, Is there a mechanical gear reduction in place? A VFD isn't a "cure all" to completely replace gear reduction and torque multiplication. It will give you speed control within reason, but running the motor down below half speed will see a big drop in torque. Shoot me an e-mail with some pics and details on the machine, we can talk more :)

[@explorewidKhan]

thank you very much sir! i want to know why we can't over speed 2 pole motor ?

[@ShadonHKW]

A 2 pole is already a high speed rotor, you will reach the mechanical limits of the spinning rotor and your motor will simply explode.

[@duanedickey7043]

Stan, Are you running shielded wire from the drive output to your motor connections?

[@ShadonHKW]

Duane Dickey Unless there is sensitive electronics nearby, I dont use the shielded cable.

[@marceltimmers1290]

Hi mate. Thanks for that. I have ordered one of the cheap VFDs, and don't know too much about them. I thought that I will try and learn about them from the book. I was thinking of putting up 2 wall sockets, so I can use more machines from one VFD. Is that wrong? can that not be done? If you do have some thoughts about that, I would like to hear what you think/know. Kind regards, Marcel. West Australia, 50Hz 240vac.

[@ShadonHKW]

Marcel Timmers One VFD can run multiple motors as long as you carefully follow some very strict rules, I will need more details and I will probably have questions. Move this over to e-mails and I can help you get your system sorted.

[@marceltimmers1290]

Shadon HKW Hi mate. That is so very nice that you are willing to give me a bit of your time. Thank you very much. At the moment I'm just awaiting the VFD. I would like to have something jacked up for when I get the chance to buy a nice mill. Those things are rather hard to come by, her on the west coast of Australia The lathe that I have, I have put on a 2Hp 240vac, and seems to be running well with it. So the VFD is purely provelactic at this stage. However thank you very much. Kind regards, Marcel.

[@pwpia5461]

Stan...I'm considering a VFD...one thing I'm not sure on...and nobody mentions it...that is voltage in and out.... Do you need to have a VFD be sized to the line voltage in and out. I guessing you can't use a 480 volt VFD on a 230 volt (house hold) voltage...correct? I see these on eBay but I'm not sure about voltages. Next...can you use a 10hp VFD to drive a 5hp motor...? Thanks for your help...

[@ShadonHKW]

No, you cant mix and match voltages, 240 in, 240 out. Oversizing a drive wont hurt anything, just program the overload threshold based on your tagged motor amp draw.

[@MT-rg4dm]

Could I install a vfd drive on a drill press motor that is 120v , 60hrz, 7.5 amps, 220-3600rpm- To eliminate the belt changing?

[@ShadonHKW]

No, a single phase motor wont run on a VFD.

[@pwpia5461]

Stan: Do these VFD hum when the motor load increases? I'm thinking of putting one on a 5hp motor that drive a lathe. Any thoughts....fyi ((single phase in---3 phase out 230-240 volts...))

[@ShadonHKW]

I wouldnt call it a hum, but a definite frequency can be heard.

[@petemclinc]

Once you get above 3 HP (10 Amps) of output these VFDs get very pricey.

[@DennisTang]

Great informational video. I recently started wiring up one if these vfd by Lenze. I have a question on the start stop buttons. You mention momentary buttons. Anything specific I should be looking for in start stop buttons and a 10k pot? Thanks.

[@ShadonHKW]

Not really, fwd and rev buttons are normally open, stop buttons are normally closed, pretty standard.

[@DennisTang]

Shadon HKW where did you get the cintrollers on thendrill press?

[@ShadonHKW]

www.wolfautomation.com/pushbutton-enclosure-22mm-3-hole-abs-plastic www.wolfautomation.com/pushbutton-22mm-round-momentary-1no-gold www.wolfautomation.com/pushbutton-22mm-round-momentary-1no-nc-black www.wolfautomation.com/pushbutton-22mm-round-momentary-1nc-red

[@DennisTang]

Shadon HKW man I think I went over board. www.factorymation.com/30PBA4-N12-400-00

[@ShadonHKW]

Yea, you probably spent more than you should have.

[@davidboyce2007]

I'm trying to install a vfd on a mill... The mill has a high range, a low range and a continually variable belt rpm adjustment. I want to control the spindle rpm with the VFD. do you have any suggestions as far as what kind of pulley system I might need to get a fixed ratio so I can accurately determine RPMs. It's got a 3hp motor with four poles, and we need the mill to be able to thread mill up to 2400 rpms. If I over drive the motor will I still have enough torque?

[@ShadonHKW]

The VFD on my mill is for generating the third phase, I have the same 2 speed / variable set up as you describe. I would always choose mechanical reduction over simply reducing the motor RPM. Your hp is going to drop drastically below 30 Hz. As far as overdriving your motor, mechanical limits need to be considered, bearings, drives, motor internals, etc. I have run as high as 120 Hz @ 100% duty cycle with no issues. Motor manufacturer was contacted prior to this for their blessing, but we are talking Baldor gold series premium motors. As you can see, there are many things to consider.

[@davidboyce2007]

+Shadon HKW Well darn. Thanks for the info and speedy reply!

[@YankeeinSC1]

+David Boyce Another consideration is the age of your motor's wiring. Let's face it, most of us are powering older, decommissioned factory equipment with our new technology VFDs. Most motor wires over 20 years old might not have 600v rated wiring inside. The problem that exists with older wire is that when you wander too far from the 60hz we know and love so well, voltage wander and induction occurs through those older, not as well insulated motor windings... on the slow and low Hz side of the equation, phase angle is so great that not only does HP fall off, your current draw will go through the roof. Remember that starting a motor takes a huge initial current spike for the same reason - almost like a dead short until things get spinning.. Far better to keep your mechanical system for low speed changes, thereby using that motor closer to it's intended design parameters. BTW Shadon's installation shown in the cleanroom at 1:50 is very nicely done. I wish I had the background in control wiring to have done as nicely on my VFD installation, but I am still learning...

[@mack255]

Do I get this right you can use this as a speed control ? That's is what I want to make a speed control that I can plug any brushed motor into ???

[@ShadonHKW]

3 phase motors only, sorry.

[@BigMjolnir]

Very informative. I learned a lot here about what a VFD can do, why you might want one, and what some of the cost/feature trade offs are. If you do a follow up, some other things that would be interesting for us newbies include motor types they work with (3 phase is obvious now, but will a single phase motor work? I suspect, but don't know for sure, that DC motors will not work...they just want a simple voltage control for speed, right?) are there any issues with RF noise? What sort of life expectancy do they have? Are they vibration sensitive? Thanks very much for the education! -- Mike

[@sameralmounjed7617]

Zghuzh

[@wallyverbeck1454]

Wow. After 4+ yrs., I do not know if I'll get an answer or not. But, here goes. If I have a 1 1/2 - 2 HP motor on one piece of equipment, and I have another piece that has a 5 HP motor, can I get a 5 HP (or 7.5) VFD and run both off that ? Or can you even run a 2 HP motor on a 5 HP VFD ? Not at the same time. At present, I only have one (1) 3ph motor that is either 1 1/2 or 2 HP (tags removed) motor. Just trying to plan ahead. Thank you. Found the vid very informative. Wally

[@ShadonHKW]

Not at the same time, you would have to do a parameter change every time you switched, that would get old pretty quick.

[@TheFeller1554]

Awesome video. I just bought a 7.5 hp Hitachi VFD to drive my 5hp lathe. The Hitachi rep said because I am imputing a poly phase it needs to derated. I had a brain storm the other day, and tell me if i'm loco or not. I currently have a static phase converter powering 4 machines. There's never more than one machine running at any one time. I bought the VFD to power the lathe because I am picking up harmonics when turning in the surface finish, also the machine is 70 yrs old and the fastest speed is 645rpm. Not so good for carbide or alum., so I want to overclock it a bit. With some sort of selector or interlock could I drive all my machines with one big VFD and have variable speed at each machine?

[@ShadonHKW]

As far as unwanted harmonics, look for the "skip frequency" parameter, this will have the drive skip any speeds that cause unwanted conditions. As far as using 1 drive to power multiple units, the odds are very slim that all operating parameters will be adequate for everything you want to run, unless you want to reprogram every time you switch to a different machine, I dont see it working out too well for you. I would need a list of all motors and their intended use.

[@ShadonHKW]

Hi Jarret, I have used Hitachi drives in the past, Japanese made, first class units. I looked up the manual for the drive I used and it was a 10 HP / 480V unit, I can remember the customer (JBL Pro) asking for quick parameter group changes and this drive was the only one I could find that would accomplish this, the drive would store up to 4 full parameter program groups. With the flick of a remote switch it would change / base speed / speed reference / ramp time / control input type / max output. That being said, this was a VERY high end drive, I also found the bill for it, in 2011 I paid 1800.00+ for it. Regards, Stan

[@TheFeller1554]

Shadon HKW Thanks for looking that up for me. The info is greatly appreciated. Parameter program groups, I will have to wright that down, and see if the manual makes any mention of it. Given my unit is in the $600 range it may not be capable if such advanced functions. Although PLC's are fairly cheap these days, maby I could pick up a cheap PLC to handle the logic end and let the VFD do what it does best. I will just have to dive into the manual when the VFD gets here.

[@SUPERDUCKcromobe]

Stan, I did my Bridgeport just like your drill with momentary pushbuttons but it only powers up as long as you hold the buttons in, when you take your finger off it turns off. What did I do wrong? I have the same LENZE VFD and everything.

[@ShadonHKW]

+SUPERDUCKcromobe Hiya, Sounds like a setting in the parameter group, Im on the road and dont have a book with me for that drive. Sounds like you have got it set for maintained switches when you should be set for momentary switches (push buttons)

[@SUPERDUCKcromobe]

+Shadon HKW OK, I'll Search through the book for that.

[@SUPERDUCKcromobe]

+SUPERDUCKcromobe I fixed it Stan. Page 32 in the book shows 3 wiring illustrations. I was using the one on right following Brads lathe setup. But as you know Brad is using a rotating always on switch. So for pushbuttons I changed the wiring to the middle array and P121, and P122 have to be changed to 11, and 12. It works awesome. Now my Bridgeport mill works just like your drillpress! Thanks Stan for the videos and help and great ideas!

[@ShadonHKW]

Outstanding! Yes the settings are different from momentary to maintained contact switch gear. Enjoy your machine :)

[@saneemp]

Great Video, Could you share the remote button wiring for Jogging using Push buttons along with normal start and stop. Thanks Saneesh

[@ShadonHKW]

That would depend on the drive, Lenze uses programmable inputs on S-1 S-2 & S-3, a jog button can be programmed to any of these inputs.

[@saneemp]

Shadon HKW Thanks Buddy, I have a Fuji FVR Micro. Let me try some options.

[@sudhirpatil3434]

If frequency is reduced, speed reduces so does torque, so how helpful will be attaching VFD to a lathe?

[@ShadonHKW]

A vector drive will boost torque at low speed to compensate, but only in small bursts. A standard VFD offers no torque boost at all.

[@TandD1w]

I have a Grob NS18 3phase band saw that I need to put a Vfd drive on. It looks like the Lenze drive is capable of monitoring the amp draw on the motor so if tthe saw breaks a band it'll automatically brake the saw. This is a feature that I'd like to have. I'm looking at a ESV751N02YXB for the drive. It would appear the drive is not capable of braking the motor and a braking module EZXDB1122A1 is required. Can you confirm if this is correct?

[@ShadonHKW]

You can use dynamic braking with the onboard DC buss, but you need to set your parameters within reason, the external braking resistor allows for much more aggressive DC braking. The parameter you want to set for a broken blade is "loss of load threshold" thanks for the comment.

[@TandD1w]

Thanks for the information. I decided to go with braking module because I want maximum braking in an emergency situation. To accomplish this, I would like an emergency stop button to provide the maximum brake effort. The loss of load situation would also provide maximum braking. Can this be occomplished while using the stock latching on/off button to provide a more moderate braking under a machine stop situation. What type of switch would the emergency stop button be? Latching? Normally open or closed? Momentary?

[@ShadonHKW]

E-stop is a maintained switch.

[@TandD1w]

Ok, got the Vfd installed tonight, but have a couple of questions: Emergency brake P111 set to 2 P105 set to 2.5s - works ok P126 set to .1s - doesn't work Emergency stop button is a latching kill switch Wires are connected to T14 & T17 Where to connect wires for remote start using OE button? Programming??? Not sure what % to program P145 to

[@ShadonHKW]

Loss of load energizes the auxiliary dry contact on term 16 & 17, Program 145 and 146 to set LoL characteristics, P 140 = 10 sets the aux for loss of load, your stop button goes in series with terminals 1&4 (and auxiliary switch gear for shutdown IE: safety limits, etc). I can't answer your question on starting method because I don't know what type of switchgear you are using.

[@dlhvac1]

why did you not tell them how to change the carrier frequency because the old motor laminations cannot take 10kilohertz you need to set the carrier freqquency at the lowest available

[@TomsTechniques]

I have the same 200V DoAll mill as you. :) It's currently running on a rotary phase converter, but I'm getting tired of the noise so I'm looking into using a VFD. One thing I've noticed in your set-up as well as others, is how slowly the motor ramps up to speed. The mill on my rotary phase converter ramps up to speed MUCH faster. Is that something that can be duplicated with a VFD, or that that a limitation of them? I do a lot of power tapping, so that is a concern. Tom

[@ShadonHKW]

+Toms Techniques Hey Tom, ramp times (both up and down) are programmable, for instance you could choose a 4 second ramp up with a 2 second ramp down. I think my mill is still on default programming (6 seconds each) it never really bothered me, so I never got into the menu and changed it. I do rigid tapping as well and it works fine in back gear. ATB Z

[@earleclemans4836]

How about vfd on a hoist?

[@tigwelding123]

Hey I have a question what do you think about using a vfd on a air compressor and say if you're ramp in the power what's the vfd will that possibly work

[@ShadonHKW]

Any VFD can have a ramp programmed into it.

[@tigwelding123]

@@ShadonHKW okay thanks I was thinking about putting a vfd on this 3-phase air compressor

[@ShadonHKW]

@@tigwelding123 With the right ramp time, you can eliminate belt slip and stop the high electrical inrush spike during start up.

[@tigwelding123]

@@ShadonHKW alright coolyeah I was planning on setting this 10 horsepower air compressor up so I was thinking about running the vfd or swapping with a 10-horse single phase motor but they ain't cheap

[@pwpia5461]

Thanks Stan....

[@umbrefawx]

split phase is the term your looking for as far as polyphase. single phase split into 2 phases but still technicly through one line phase. :P

[@scuffieduffie]

That torque part i didnt get. How can i know i have a variable torque drive? Or the other. What is ideal for a lathe?

[@ShadonHKW]

Hi Nick, Look for vector control when purchasing a VFD, this will allow you to enable that feature, I would get constant torque for a lathe.

[@scuffieduffie]

Shadon HKW Does it say vector drive on the device? And how will i know it is a constant torque?

[@ShadonHKW]

The Lenze SMV drives are all constant torque, they are the ones highlighted in this video.

[@raulserna4668]

What’s you pay for it and we’re firm let me know

[@mack255]

Can you use a VFD to run a 115 volt drill press.What about a small hand grinder?

[@ShadonHKW]

You have a 3 phase hand grinder?? 0.o

[@mack255]

No

[@electricalteacher7650]

Nice video

[@davidrule1335]

How do you determine the number of polls on a motor?

[@ShadonHKW]

general rule of thumb, 3400 = 2 pole, 1700 =4 pole, 800 = 6 pole, 400 = 8 pole

[@sapperjohn256]

can i reverse a 120v drill press with this? thanks

[@ShadonHKW]

SapperJohn Nope, 3 phase motors only, sorry.

[@timeymundson9061]

Some really good ideas and info in your video.ButPoly Phase is slang for 3 PhaseNo such thing as a 2 Phase or "T" Phase System any longer. Was used at some remote experimental site in early 1900s (SIC)Only Single Phase and 3 (poly) Phase todayA Single (1) Phase, 2 pole motor has 2 main windings that oscillate back and forth and a Shut or Capacitor winding to get the rotor spinning. Eg; (2 phase (line) leads only produce a single phase action)A "T" (2) Phase, 2 pole motor has 4 main windings in 2 pair that are power 180 degrees apart didn't need a start winding but still choppy. A Poly (3) (Tesla) Phase, 2 pole Motor, Has 6 main windings in 3 Pairs (4 pole has 12 main windings in 6 Pairs) and the pairs are powered 120 degrees a part creating a smoother rotating field.N. America is 60Hz, rest of the world is 50Hz (not a big deal for motors) just might through of speed charts by 10%USA is typically 460 & 230 VoltCanada is typically 575 (600) and 208 Volt

[@Orgakoyd]

If your drill press motor is 900 RPM, wouldn't it be a 8 pole motor? 4 pole is 1800 RPM, double the pole count would half the synchronous speed. Great video btw!

[@trialnterror]

So what I'm understanding is all you need is a VFD to convert single phase residential power into three phase commercial power? My machinist manager told me I needed a static phase converter and a VFD to be able to run a three phase motor on my bridgeport mill? But all these videos I'm watching show differently. It shows in your video that the VFD'S have a stand alone phase converter built in?

[@ShadonHKW]

Yes, just the VFD, no phase converters were harmed in the making of this video.

[@macguyver209]

What is not well understood, is that the VFD converts A.C. single phase to DC, putting that DC power into a set of capacitors, that DC buss power is then converted into 3 phase power by a set of 6 power transistors in a 3 phase bridge configuration...

[@mikenewman4078]

Using a Variable Voltage Variable Frequency drive to create 3 phase is viable only when the motor can be run in 3 phase at the single phase supply voltage. For instance if a motor is designed for 400volt star connected and has 6 leads so it can be connected in delta 230 volts, you are good to go. If the motor has only 3 leads and is designed for 400 volts, you are stuffed, also is it is designed for delta at 400volt you are stuffed again. If the motor was originally connected to a star delta starter most likely you are stuffed. A have a couple of drives that I have in captivity are a total pain in the arse because while they will happily run single phase to 3 phase they need 480 v single phase. Thus would be ok on the SWER ( Single Wire Earth Return) which is a 480v centre tapped system a bit like the US 230 centre tapped arrangement. Neither of these systems are 2 phase by the way, just single phase centre tapped.

[@Max_Marz]

I really love the aesthetics of that drill press, kind of a silly thing to say but I couldn't keep my eyes off that cute little vfd at the bash. Side note, "overdrive" is a really misleading term.

[@raynixon4779]

Hi, Awesome video. I'm new to all this, I brought an old treadmill, to use the motor to control my bandsaw for timber and steel cutting, I assumed the treadmill was DC motor, but it is a 3-phase AC. the treadmill motor is 4HP. which is major over kill for my bandsaw. so would a smaller VFD (1.5hp rated) work? knowing the bandsaw would never require that much torque.... the 1.5 hp VFD are half the price of a 4hp unit. or should I get a new smaller motor you think?

[@ShadonHKW]

+Ray Nixon Didnt the treadmill already have a speed control? If you need to buy one I would get a smaller motor first, fractional HP VFD's are still hovering around 100 bucks.

[@raynixon4779]

+Shadon HKW thanks for your reply, the treadmill dose have a control board with it, but It's old and larger then the VFDs currently available. I'll grab a smaller motor and start from there

[@mele5876]

If any body jls e2 manual please send to me thanks