RTX 4090 can't help when CPU limited.

[@Stock--Rosso]

It's almost as if ray tracing is creating a problem, that companies need to fix with higher priced products🤔

[@halfbakedproductions7887]

Sadly ray tracing is a generic term and differs wildly from card to card, driver to driver, engine to engine, application to application, game to game. If you're buying a card for its "ray tracing" capabilities then you're a fool - you might find that a game supports it, but only for water reflections and nothing else while the rest of the game coughs and stutters. You might find another game supports RTX on Vulkan but it looks like a bag of crap on DX. Same goes for a game having gorgeous RTX but you then run Blender and it's horrible.

[@鳳凰院凶真-r5k]

When AMD beats Nvidia in a Ray Tracing title, you know who to blame.

[@stevenjohnson4122]

Optimization is the problem

[@AwesomeBlackDude]

One of the solution that can resolve this is Bring Back dual CPU sockets MBs.

[@Stock--Rosso]

@@user-co1ru4hc3h Inno3D GeForce RTX 4090 ICHILL X3 and nope🤣

[@greatkingrat]

I definitely call what you’re describing an engine limit. If a game is only written to take advantage of a single core then that is an engine limit.

[@Pisscan]

UE4 is plagued with that dog shit

[@johndoh5182]

He basically said that by saying it's not well parallelized which is correct. You get benefit from cores when you can run tasks in parallel and get a speed up from it. This is different than just saying multi-threading although it SHOULD be the same thing because you shouldn't break up a task into threads unless there's a real time benefit from it. If you have a main thread, spawn a new one to do some task but in the mean time the main thread is simply waiting for an output from the thread that was spawned that actually takes longer than having a single thread so the makers of the game engine have to do REAL brain work and pretty complicated time testing with everything they write. When I see a game that performs so poorly I just don't buy it. When enough people don't buy a product or people buy it and then say it sucks because of how slow it is then the companies understand they can't be lazy.

[@fredEVOIX]

a very obvious way to see that cpu bottleneck is with my favored gpu benchmark : borderlands 3 not only does it scale almost 1:1 with your gpu performance but it also runs in dx11 or dx12, 1080p in dx11 a 4090 has almost 3090 fps around 180fps but in dx12 where the cpu cores are actually used...280fps quite a difference

[@channelthechannel]

Definitely, other RT games are not CPU limited at all - Portal RTX, Control, Cyberpunk, Dying Light 2 - all pegged at 99% GPU load often even at 1440p with a 4090.

[@channelthechannel]

I've heard this same thing being mentioned about Witcher 3, when it's clear it has a similar limitation and is sporting all the old bottlenecks in all the same areas as the original game.

[@MightBeBren]

hey Daniel, if you go into msi afterburner, in settings and under monitoring, you can override group name for specific things like avg and 1% fps to have its own rows with names

[@packetcreeper]

Thanks for the tip!

[@fredEVOIX]

I just spent 24h over 3 days learning how to change afterburner overlay the correct way to tune it is with rivatuner-setup-plugins-overlay editor, it's pretty complicated as you need to add data sources manually then make tables grouping those sources and stuff but in the end you can have a very advanced layout, will upload a vid on my channel as demo I honestly almost switched to fps monitor but what you really want to have live is the fps or frametimes graph, rivatuner is live fpsmonitor is not very slow laggy updates not useful to tweak your system

[@MightBeBren]

@@fredEVOIX i configured my msi afterburner settings in like 4 mins... drive.google.com/file/d/13PdYRmUoeQkjXB5TS_qUR9CAESLGtEKt/view?usp=share_link here is what 4 mins of msi afterburner overlay configuring looks like

[@ch0ketv_]

I've been playing at 3440x1440 on a 3080Ti, 7700x and getting about 65fps average at max settings, all RT enabled with FSR 2.0 quality. Some scenes it struggles tho. Lowest FPS I noticed was 38fps but it's over 60fps more often than not.

[@Kultz]

so close to 100k daniel!

[@SaccoBelmonte]

i think with these kind of analysis would be helpful to have all cores displayed to see if any of them gets utilized 100%. Especially in that hallway with 55fps. I think is time devs move their rear ends and parallelize code better. That's what Doom Eternal probably has and everyone wonders.

[@korinogaro]

It is UE4 problem (I think UE5 suffers the same problem). For some reason that engine is still not as multithreaded as it should be, as it loads fully I think only up to 4 threads.

[@MlnscBoo]

@@GerardGubash So everything else about game development is easy? Stop making excuses for billion dollar companies. Building the island is Dubai that smell like fermented pee was difficult, they still did it

[@TorqueKMA]

@@MlnscBoo it's not always a question of willpower lol.

[@MlnscBoo]

@@TorqueKMA Yeah it's greed and stupidity (or willful ignorance). Like when people hear a company like Square-enix say "FF7 is just to big to fit into a single game with the newest tech" and just believes it

[@MlnscBoo]

@@TorqueKMA Or a person who learns the 3090ti die only costs nvidia 100 bucks to make and tries to justify the 2000 dollar price tag for that company. "Uh well the 'mask' is expensive too". Or "r&d" is expensive too, when AMD has the same r&d expense while only holding like 3% of the market and is doing just fine

[@jossoerav4147]

Actually a more aggressive fsr/dlss can have a little impact on the frame rate since at lower resolutions less rays bounces are calculated therefore less CPU bottleneck.

[@johndoh5182]

Yeah if you don't reduce the amount of RT load which can be lighting/shading it won't fix the situation.

[@korinogaro]

I have a feeling that once again we enter the era of devs going: "fuck optimization, gamers can always buy better hardware". Especially when it comes to RT implementation. BTW. 4:29 "not super bad"... 4090 is getting average FPS of 75 at 1440p... in corridor based game...

[@danielowentech]

My problem with it is when it gets CPU limited then things like DLSS/FSR or even a faster GPU can't help. DLSS 3 helps in cpu limited situations but isn't supported in many games or by many GPUs, and it's image quality can vary by game on how usable it is.

[@Drip7914]

@@danielowentech have u seen the updated frame generation in miles morales? They’ve fixed all the ghosting issues you pointed out in your first review. Looks stunning in darktide as well

[@korinogaro]

@@danielowentech well the question is why is their RT implementation so heavy on CPU. It should hammer GPU and be relatively light on CPU.

[@jose131991]

@@korinogaro to get you to buy the 4000 series cards. DUH!

[@korinogaro]

@@jose131991 yeah but as we see in this case even 4090 doesn't help because for most of the time it is CPU that is a bottleneck...

[@icy1007]

With a 13900K and 4090, my benchmark results at 1440p RT Max gives nearly a 10fps increase over what you're showing. I get ~84fps. Yeah, CPU can make a big difference with RT performance. Kind of crazy.

[@plkzyE]

I'm on a rx 6750 xt and i'm getting 90-120 fps the whole game so far (1080p). All I did was turn shadows to medium because for some reason that really tanked my fps for like no visual improvement. I do have RT off as well and i'm getting like no stutters at all. I'm loving the game so far!

[@secularspectator]

1080p with no RT....lol

[@JudeTheYoutubePoopersubscribe]

@@secularspectator and?

[@secularspectator]

@@JudeTheKZbinPoopersubscribe it's 2022....and the vid is about the 4090😉

[@johndoh5182]

@@secularspectator Right and the OP is using a 6750 XT which is not a good GPU for ray tracing unless it's very light work and this is well understood, so so what? Is it a crime for a person to explain how THEY got good fps using the system THEY have? I mean really what's YOUR point? Just to be an ass?

[@-Ice_Cold-]

@@secularspectator There are people with 1080P - the vast majority of them, including me. If you are a mother's major, and show off expensive things, it does not mean that others have them.

[@williamcricket7931]

We descended to a new low. Playing games with worse graphics overall (fake resolution) in order to get fake framerates inflated by upscaling technologies, so that we can see some gimmicky ray tracing effects.

[@Jsfilmz]

Someone called the cops cos this CPU GOT MURDERED

[@Wobbothe3rd]

Lowering the resolution can indeed help the CPU if the RT is tied to the resolution as it usually is. Most people still only have a 4K 60hz TV even if they have a higher refresh rate monitor, so the 4090's RT perf is acceptable here, despite the obvious CPU-usage weaknesses of UE4. The problem isn't the 4090, it's the engine.

[@jerrycurls88]

Turning on RT is still pointless to me.. the native image looks great. It's clear RT is an upsell to justify insane GPU prices.

[@pwnomega4562]

it almost seems like raytracing is a bigger hassle than is worth it.

[@silverback2773]

Especially with UE5 lumen. That alone looks wayyy better than Raytracing.

[@crestofhonor2349]

@@silverback2773 lumen is ray tracing, what are you talking about

[@yellowflash511]

@@crestofhonor2349 it's global illumination without needing hardware ray tracing acceleration like cp2077 and Elden Ring

[@crestofhonor2349]

@@yellowflash511 It's not a probe based system, and even if it was, it isn't new at all. It's still a software ray tracing system as explained by Epic on their entire article explaining Lumen based GI. Plenty of games have used probe based GI and Naughty dog loves their baked lighting system. Cyberpunk can even switch between RTGI and it's probe system if the ray traced lighting is switched to Psycho settings.

[@yellowflash511]

@@crestofhonor2349 yes thats literally what i said

[@silverback2773]

As chips get more and more cores, they need be able to utilize those cores to the max. I’ve even noticed games where you CAN enable more cores to work in the configuration file which actually help FPS quite a lot when you do allow all cores to be utilized. Why the hell haven’t games evolved to the point where they can atleast use 8-12 cores. I mean in some of the most modern games they still only utilize 4 cores.

[@InnuendoXP]

Eh even on my 6 core 5600 I see plenty of games not even use it (particularly Witcher 3 NG patch). A lot of game processes are latency & throughput dependent which parallelisation can only do so much with. When you have tasks that need to be run sequentially extremely fast, more threads won't help, but more cache & IPC will. But overall it sounds like if that's the case, then the hardware to run this stuff properly simply doesn't exist yet. I do wonder why RT seems to have accelerated itself into CPU bottlenecking though & if it truly can't be run in parallel, particularly as most seem to use ray accumulation methods anyway.

[@christophermullins7163]

@@InnuendoXP RT = reason to upgrade CPU and GPU.

[@blkspade23]

We do have games/engines capable of using up to 12 threads. Cyberpunk, Spiderman, Watchdogs legion, Division 2 will all drive a 6c/12t CPU above 50%. This game is just particularly poor at using the CPU.

[@christophermullins7163]

@@InnerFury1886 shut up artsi snowflake. Naw but you right though. Remember console is 65% of gamers on 8core. I bet next gen will have 8 cores or possibly a couple more. Albeit with doubt the IPC as current gen consoles.

[@MlnscBoo]

Dude can anybody watch this and honestly tell me you see a difference between "ray tracing" on and off? And don't talk to me about a reflection in a puddle....

[@TerraWare]

I found quite a big difference between medium and high RT reflections when I did a side by side comparison of the PC version maxed out vs the PS5 version in fidelity mode which seems to run reflections at the PC medium equivalent. It wasn't just that some of the detail was lost but found quite heavy reduction in quality of objects that are in motion like a spinning fan for example. It still looks good though. The RT effects are quite impressive in this game so is the PlayStation 5's performance with RT on actually.

[@Dionyzos]

I would love to see someone explain why exactly RT is so heavy on the CPU. It sounds counter intuitive at first consiering all those RT cores modern Nvidia GPUs have.

[@wasdc]

Ray tracing is a physical interaction of light in real life. In order to implement the results of ray tracing in video, it must be simulated. The gpu is responsible for generating polygons whereas the CPU is responsible for calculations and simulations. The RT accelerators in Nvidia GPUs do definitely help however.

[@nepnep6894]

@@InnerFury1886 more memory bandwidth on the cpu makes a massive difference. Manually tuned ddr5 with a 6900xt got me 96fps at 1080p native max with RT. Intel is pretty much required since zen4's bandwidth is held back by the fclk.

[@FrostyBud777]

I am so glad I got a 7700X. Thank you God. The 4 core 7th gen intel 7700K gave me it's last performance and would not run many game due to cpu bottleneck. I hope this 7700X lasts a while but if not I can drop in new amdo 7800X3d in a year or two and then crush games even better.

[@tonkatoytruck]

Why does my frame rate counter in Radeon software stuck on 60fps in this game? I have it set to unlimited in the set up.

[@ConnorBrightSonix]

sheesh 100k already

[@r1pperduck]

I had a very enjoyable experience at 46fps, was surprisingly smooth, and with 4k oled, it looked amazing.

[@danielowentech]

Yeah, Fortunately this game feels pretty good without high fps since it is fairly slow paced. I also like the motion blur implementation and thinks it helps as well.

[@sirbughunter]

Which GPU? 4090?

[@r1pperduck]

@Sir Henry 3070 laptop version, i was playing on the gigabyte aero xd, so 15" screen helped.

[@AwesomeBlackDude]

What was AMD thinking? "The problematic A0 silicon revision was apparently the reason why AMD delayed the launch of the flagship RDNA 3 GPUs by almost a year. Despite this, AMD still launched the RX 7900 cards with this stepping that is exhibiting high GPU clock variability, power draw issues and disabled shader prefetch instructions."

[@Davids6994]

@@AwesomeBlackDude fake news they already addressed

[@paulhellyer4518]

I'm just going to say it "I don't like Ray Tracing". Oh look at the reflection in that puddle, it looks slightly nicer, but with half the FPS. I turn off Ray Tracing as Default now and life is much happier :) Join the "Go Native" Appriciation Society !

[@rakon8496]

Everyone is talking about CPU and GPU limitations, yet i doubt this is the whole picture. In my limited support experience in helping other FlightSim users dealing with performance issues often the ram bottlenecked the system and sometimes GPUs got not fully used despite a capable CPU. Maybe its worth to talk more about the limiting factors of other components beyond the standard "turn on XMP and its fine" - Is there a way do distinguish between a CPU limit and limitations of the Ram (bandwith) or the GPU bus limiting? 💙

[@user-ye7lp9lg1c]

He's using 4090 and ddr5 at 6000 mhz cl36 and it still runs this bad

[@Vincent_Zhao]

Nice Daniel, I love these videos. You and Digital Foundry are the best at them!

[@georgeaapmusic]

The stutters are really off-putting :/, While Nvidia's antilag features are effective, I don't think relying on them should be a normalised thing with ray tracing, hoping these problems will be fixed with time.

[@visceraeyes525]

frame generation and dlss shouldnt be relied on either

[@antmcgee5531]

Maybe it's isn't a cpu limit. I think maybe it's something to do with the speed these hardware talk to each other not their individual speed. That or a SSD bottleneck. I think maybe we are at the point were "directstorage" will benefit something like this dramatically.

[@AndreaPicchi]

It would be great to see a sim racing simulator such as “Assetto Corsa Competizione” in your tests. We have 3M people on Race Department that would love that.

[@plyzogyz]

thx man!

[@CharlesVanNoland]

D-0wn4g3: I think that FSR *was* the platform-agnostic option to implement. It's more work adding two options, and when one of them only works on one brand of GPU it's not like the ROI doubles too. I can't believe 1080p with RT maxed on a 4090 gets down in the 60FPS range.

[@jose131991]

DLSS looks better in all modes while getting back more performance than FSR usually.

[@yellowflash511]

@@jose131991 it has to so that's not helping it's case

[@vincent_dumont]

sooo in a nutshell: Nvdia is selling hardware raytracing that aint hardware supported? because software (cpu) Raytracing is kinda old tech. Hardware accelerated raytracing is new but it kinda doesn't work because too much of the work still has to be done by the cpu? what is it that the cpu is (still) loaded with?

[@TheGeorkef]

So all you need (except 1600$+ graphics card) is 6 core CPU with 8GHz clock to run this at 4K max settings. What a great optimatilzation for multicore CPUs again ...

[@michaelangst6078]

there will always be games that push the limits that you have to wait 10+ years later to get the best experience on the highest end resolution at the time.... Grand Theft auto 5 is very well optimized and it still falls below 60fps quite a bit of the time playing 8k maxed on the 4090......

[@shtiken]

I agree on DLSS, it's becoming a feature that you expect to find, particularly in a game that is using tech as a selling point. It's essential enough that it should not be excluded due to sponsorship nonsense. This kind of practice makes me less interested in buying a game, especially a game that would have really benefitted.

[@Kam9002]

To be completly frank I don't think that AMD is to blame for lack of DLSS. Game seems to have a lot of issues and should have been delayed. I just assumed since they partnered with AMD they were obligated to at least implement FSR 2 into their game and judging by the game terrible state at release, they decided to focus on other things as both DLSS and FSR do exactly the same thing (slightly different results but similar enough), but both need some time to implement properly. On the other hand this game is a mystery tech wise. PS5/PS4 versions seem to be very well optimized (at least if u take their power into account), better than xbox or pc, not to mention it implements multiple RT effects on ps5 with fairly high res and stable 30fps which is quite impressive. Seems to me like they prioritized optimizing for a platform with highest amount of users. Looks like xbox/pc share similar code (directX 12) since why both perform poor, unfortunate.

[@Jerry-jo6dn]

I can see why frame generation exists. It would be useful for this game.

[@tiredofthebs9]

Why does the CPU matter when Nvida has RT cores?

[@adalstan]

Because RT is a resource hog

[@wasdc]

ray tracing is simulated from the cpu

[@neocaron87]

To be fair Fsr 2 is platform agnostic since it runs on any graphics card... DLSS isn't. I say that as the owner of a 4090, while DLSS is awesome now that I'm inside the ecosystem it sucked when I had a 1080ti and FSR 2 wasn't a thing.

[@wakingfromslumber9555]

Does RT actually make a noticeable difference in this game that justifies shitty frame rates? The only game I have noticed makes a big difference to the visuals is cyberpunk 2077.

[@masterlee1988]

It depends on the game. Some games there's a difference(Control, Metro Exodus, Watch Dogs Legion, Dying Light 2, Spider Man Remastered) and in others barely even there.

[@arikelvara]

Ray Tracing Murders Framerate in Witcher 3 too! 5900X and a 3080, 45FPS with RT on. 125 FPS with RT off!

[@vensroofcat6415]

Unlike the gameplay, which is mostly 1 main thread and then some assisting since it is about dependencies, RT is just a ton of calculations in the existing scene. Gazillions of light rays bouncing around, right? Photons don't collide with each other. Should be easy to parallelize and add up? Something is off with the CPU slowing down RT so badly. May be just a trash engine. Or am I missing something? Maybe use a CPU with a lot more cores?

[@pyroromancer]

*_THE ULTIMATE COMPARISON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!_*

[@CyberJedi1]

Man, it's sad that the game is so cpu limited, getting only 70-80fps on a 4090 with FSR quality, I mean, wtf right?

[@jose9999able]

I got a 4090 with a 13900kf - would that help RT performance?

[@Dan-u1l]

If you enjoyed this game, try playing through the original Dead Space series and you'll see that Callisto Protocol doesn't compare.

[@Justifier]

Have to wonder if DirectStorage would fix the CPU bottleneck here

[@K11...]

I wonder if switching to an intel processor would help with the cpu bottlenecking spesific for RT? Also, have you checked how many cpu cores are being maxed out during your testing?

[@Pisscan]

13900k 💀

[@nepnep6894]

If using properly tuned ddr5 yes. I noticed RT in newer titles is craving ram bandwidth. My 6900xt can do 96fps at 1080p max with RT enabled without FSR. I'm using manually tuned ddr5 6400 skhynix M die.

[@akamikeym]

How the FQ are they writing their rtaytracing so that it is single thread bound on the CPU? That's so stupid.

[@BugBorAT]

You know what is kinda funny the only selling point of these insane GPUs is for effects. Not frames which are needed to play the game you pay for the sparkle and better shadows but still crazy how they still went through with it xD

[@crestofhonor2349]

They went through with it because it’s useful for games and in the rendering world. There are multiple reasons why nvidia and subsequently AMD and Intel did it too. That hardware is going to be very important not just now but especially in the future. 3D animators and artist love the hardware based ray tracing as it vastly speeds up render times and even allows for you to render some scenes in real time with the proper lighting thus saving time. Also useful for games since it can allow for realistic lighting and speed up the time spent lighting environments. This is the sole reason why Unreal started developing Lumen and why it has a software and hardware ray tracing mode

[@jason19872011]

Nvidia and game developers aren't stupid. They purposefully design the drivers, game engine to run the game at a low enough fps at 4k with RT so that you go out and buy a 4090 to get playable framerate.

[@YashPatel97335]

You do realise that this video is showing 4090 getting low fps right?! 😅

[@fredEVOIX]

there's something most people don't realize, RT cores are separate cores...on top of the raster ones so not only does the power usage increases significantly but those "new cores" also are hungry for cpu time, the 4090 gives me 0% gpu bound in shadow of the tomb raider 1080p a 3090 was 43-47% and a 1080ti was 99% current amd and nvidia gpus evolved too quickly for cpus

[@WhiskyNerd]

Do you think the a higher core count 7900X with two CCD would help split the load for raytracing and help with that cpu bottleneck?

[@danielowentech]

No. The game isn't even coming close to using the 8c/16t 7700x. It needs faster single core or to be better parallelized in the programming somehow.

[@korinogaro]

It is UE4 problem, not CPU problem.

[@brzimtrco6142]

@Daniel Owen it needs better coding, 7700x should be running games like this one at over 150fps

[@korinogaro]

@@brzimtrco6142 problem is that majority studios depends 100% on automated solution that Unreal Engine provides... and sadly more and more often that solution sucks serious cock.

[@nepnep6894]

@@danielowentech It's a similar issue to Gotham Knights from what I can tell. Callisto protocol craves memory bandwidth on the cpu.

[@marvinkohen3842]

What software are you using to show in game fps? I have 4090 stix card.

[@crestofhonor2349]

That looks like MSI after burner plus Riva tuner i believe

[@marvinkohen3842]

@@crestofhonor2349 how do you turn it on ? I opened the afterburner it’s not showing anything on the top left corner.

[@crestofhonor2349]

@@marvinkohen3842 Not sure. I haven't used the application

[@tikz.-3738]

Update to 4.6.5 beta 3

[@madhausnintyone259]

how can the cpu limit with >20% load?

[@ultimategohan1551]

Cause its not even close to maxing out the 8 cores/16 threads.

[@TiagoPonteR]

It's tough to swallow that an engine barely using a quarter of its available CPU cores and threads is CPU bottlenecked. It's an optimisation issue. One that I suspect might be caused by the consoles dragging the PC down.

[@Helifax19]

Since the first RTX generation (RTX 2000 series), enabling Raytracing would have a 50% performance impact. This is the reason DLSS 1.0/2.0 was created to mitigate this. Now we have DLSS 3.0 which actually tries to win back more frames from when using RT + DLSS 2.0. RTX 4090 is the same thing :D No RT - X FPS, RT - X/2 FPS :D The game is actually less resource demanding than this benchmark though :)

[@robertmyers6488]

Wouldn't it be better to call it a failure to optimize the cpu in the program.

[@scotter]

Did you have any plans to upgrade your 7700X to the 7950X?

[@hartsickdisciple]

Why would he do that? The 7950x doesn't perform better in 99% of games.

[@scotter]

@@hartsickdisciple great question. Maybe you assume (1) games are only use; and (2) he can't afford/want the best to use and review?

[@hartsickdisciple]

@@scotter He told us the reason for selecting the 7700x in one of his prior videos. This is his game benchmark rig. He has a separate PC for video editing and production. I think that one has a 5950x. There are some games where a 7700x will outperform a 7950x, due to the chiplet design.

[@HoangDucNuyen]

Basically, the GPU is not fully ultilized when CPU reachs 20-25%, which means this game ultilizes only 4 cores max?

[@promc2890]

until RT is only like a 10% performance hit i will never turn it on

[@masterlee1988]

Yep, for me as long as I can get 60fps+ with any game with ray tracing that's only when I find it worth it.

[@stormrider01]

Which CPU can you recommend for raytracing? Is a 5800x3d enough? Or is Intel better?

[@wasdc]

For a 4090, 13900k is the minimum

[@Corrosion37]

its funny that this is a AMD sponsored game except their cards are horrible at ray tracing. i get 20 fps on cyberpunk with my 6900xt

[@LakerTriangle]

Learned something with the CPU bottleneck - been into PCs since 100 Mhz was the top speed so good info.

[@Pisscan]

How are you still alive? 💀

[@LakerTriangle]

@@Pisscan brains and willpower 🤡

[@Tomas91709]

Could u please test GTX 1060 ?

[@jason19872011]

Every generation you need the best GPU on the market to max out game with acceptable framerates by design to make more money. So you feel like your GPU is shit.

[@stephenpourciau8155]

It is not always a CPU limitation. You can see scenes where the GPU reports that it's fully loaded with work, on the order of 90-96% loaded, and yet it's using sub 300w of power. This represents a situation where they've done something incorrectly when feeding this GPU with work, either shaders are stalling parts of the architecture, or something being done on the card is stalling it out.

[@cfrozen6210]

Yeah, you can reach 100% "load" with already very low utilization. When optimizing peoples gpu code, it's sometimes hilarious how they see 100% load, think they are done, and then it has ~25% of the theoretical perak performance, not even using specific hardware units.

[@nepnep6894]

It's most likely memory bandwidth or pcie bandwidth limitations.

[@HankBaxter]

You'd think that if it's an AMD-sponsored title they'd at try to optimize the raytracing as much as possible using all CPU threads, lol.

[@ItsJustVV]

You want to stop being CPU limited in games? Get yourself a 13700K/13900K OC it and pair it with OC-ed and tuned DDR4 4000+ B-die ("bang4buck" enthusiast build) or OC-ed and tuned at least DDR5 7200+ (expensive enthusiast build) and see how it leaves Zen4 in the dust and you can actually enjoy the 4090 at the fullest (or any high end GPU for that matter).

[@Krenisphia]

I have a 13700k & 4090 and I ended up just turning RT off in this game.

[@waynetuttle6872]

“Cuz most people don’t have a 40 series GPU, hehehe”, snob, 😂

[@ZomgZomg007]

Dlss3 would work wonders here

[@KGReef]

Seeing gameplay like this with a 4090 makes me think the 4090 isn't enough to play a lot of these types of games maxed out at 4k native. Like the hardware can't keep up with some of these games.

[@bonkgameing]

Here’s the thing, there are many different releases that look the same if not better at much better framerates. This game takes place in an ENCLOSED space! Indoors! Resources should not be squeezed as hard as they are! it does not make sense for the CPU to have such a large burden when there isn’t many AI and events going about in the world. This is very much an optimization issue

[@NirudhaPerera]

Similar to the Witcher 3 NextGen RT behavior with CPU being the limit. Maybe a bit worse in the Witcher with it being open world.

[@banahwaaymentupac]

this probleme is only with AMD cpu with intel cpu gpu load always high

[@christophermullins7163]

The game has a huge and obvious flaw. Plz don't think this is representative of the 4090.

[@h1tzzYT]

One thing i really hate about couple of these new games that they become EXTREMELY single cpu threaded, this game and new witcher 3 next gen. Now i get it, witcher was and still is based on old REDengine, but calisto is brand new IP and it gives such a hard time for cpus. I hope this is not new trend-_-

[@juan5h]

I don't really see much of a difference between native and RT, I don't think it's worth turning on RT in this game. There is a lot of marketing behind ray tracing for now more than reality, in many games that I tried it is not worth the little that is gained visually compared to the loss of fps, a few games really take advantage of it, I think this one lacks development technology.

[@Keivz]

Surprised you enable v sync in game. With vrr you should keep v sync off in game and on in the nvcp for the best experience (see blurbusters for more). Shame no dlss 3 or dlss 2. Thanks AMD!

[@tedpalmer1537]

Its like Crysis all over again

[@BaldVulture87]

I'm kind of ashamed at myself, I went and bought a 3060 they had it stock at my local store, and RTX is such a gimmic, it's barely noticeable, when it is noticeable tho it does look amazing, with dlss frames are good but I still feel like then tech is a decade away at minimum from being a standard in games. As i said ATM it's more of a gimmic then anything else.

[@tormarod]

Damn this game is heavier on the CPU than I thought. Also to be fair, even if it doesn't have DLSS, at least FSR is available on all hardware, unlike the other way around... I know what you mean about supporting all platforms equally, that would be ideal, but yeah. When Nvidia sponsors a title we AMD owners are royally screwed.

[@dylf14]

FSR is literally platform agnostic. I don't understand why he says it should have DLSS also. Why would an AMD sponsored title implement their competitors closed source code?

[@TerraWare]

I find the Nvidia sponsored titles to be quite lenient on AMD features. For example Spiderman Remastered/Miles Morales and Uncharted are 3 recent Nvidia sponsored titles that launched with FSR 2 support even XeSS. Same with Cyberpunk/ Guardians of the Galaxy. I've yet to see any DLSS added to AMD sponsored titles although I could be wrong but it's not present in Callisto, Farcry, RE Village etc.

[@Nobody-su9km]

@@dylf14 Cause FSR is not as good as DLSS, so for NVIDIA users FSR is a downgrade.

[@vaggeliskosiatzis5487]

On the contrary, is not CPU heavy at all, it uses two threads mostly at 100% and it can’t utilise more than that. It’s single thread dependent which is unacceptable for a 2022 games. Games should take advantage all the threads that are available to them. This game at this state would get a lot more performance if you had a dual core/4 threaded CPU at 15ghz 😂😂😂 it’s so unoptimised it really hurts😂😂😂

[@bitbat9]

@@dylf14 DLSS looks much better

[@billyraynsford8884]

Damn ever since i put my 13900k my gpu on any game with RT settings maxed uses no lower then 90% GPU usage the only time I had that kind of bottleneck was with my 9900k while waiting for my new CPU I used it XD 40 to 50 usage.

[@channelthechannel]

Why are you acting like this is inherent to RT when it's obviously an engine and optimization issue.

[@mrshinobigaming8447]

I think both nvidea and amd are just not want to provide hardware needed for raytracing (yet) and only optimizing the hardware which is a available to keep the cost low on their end and trying to make people think(slowly) that cost is higher so making customer think 1k$ gpu is value product and then next gen(5080) make it fully capable card cuz this gen is mostly a cash grab

[@crestofhonor2349]

No I disagree. Yes cost is a huge part as you can only do so much without making the hardware prices skyrocket. However ray tracing is a very difficult calculation that has been causing issues for years. Even the world of 3D rendering like in film and CG movies is still iterating and improving upon their lighting using ray tracing. This isn’t about a cash grab, it’s about trying to make the best RT hardware you can for the money. That huge increase in ray tracing hardware the 40 series seems to have is because nvidia made the Love Lace GPUs so expensive. Intel too is also getting into the hardware ray tracing world with ARC GPUs and while they might be ahead of AMDs 6000 series, they are slightly behind nvidia. I don’t think there is any malice here as ray tracing has tons of applications outside of just gaming. Many people in the film industry and CG industry love ray tracing hardware as it vastly speeds up their work flow AMD even allows for real time previews of their work with full lighting, albeit at a lower quality than a full render.

[@johnlangley7521]

you said it !!! Ray tracing isnt worth it !!

[@ainz0617]

This game ist an unoptimised mess..sadly.

[@halfbakedproductions7887]

People still use the "can it run Crysis" meme even though there are better and more recent examples of games coming out in a sorry state. Cyberpunk was a steaming pile when it first launched, but now it's got pretty good.

[@Nobody-su9km]

@@halfbakedproductions7887 i think it's because unlike these newer games, crisis never got truly fixed, hardwares just improved to the point they were able to deal with the game, but the game itself was never fixed.

[@gunstarpl]

Unreal Engine is an unoptimized mess that doesn't know what to do with more than few cores.

[@Nobody-su9km]

@@gunstarpl Fortnite would beg to differ.

[@RiasatSalminSami]

@@Nobody-su9km Fortnite has shader compilation stutter.

[@vulturex3265]

Wow today and a game is only using one core (you said thread) of a CPU.........really that is BS.

[@marcasswellbmd6922]

I pause a games every once in a while to look at ray tracing scenes and it's not that big of a difference with it on.. Even watching this video and pausing the side by side you have going I don't see how RTX is really that much better than Raster with Ultra settings on?? I don't get it, I would rather have the frames and smoother game play.. I mean go on steam and buy a game, 99% don't have Ray tracing as a feature. I still think it's more important to Nvidia's marketing Dept, than it is to gamer's. And worst of all it remains something that only people willing to pay $2000 can have.. I see why people get Nice OLED's and consoles and call it a day.

[@hartsickdisciple]

The problem is that the game is very poorly-coded. There's no excuse for a modern game to not be able to leverage 8 cores.

[@blkspade23]

It's the end of 2022, still using below 20% of an 8 core CPU in a scenario that definitely calls for more is an engine/coding problem. Spiderman would frequently be using 30-50%, as does Cyber Punk. The UE5 Matrix demo will use up 40% of a 5950X, which is like 12ish threads. This has been an ever increasing case for recent titles. DX12/Vulkan APIs main point is simplifying multi-core access. Every other RT game has been using more threads for RT. This game is both DX12 and UE5, basically using 4 threads. They dropped the ball on the coding.

[@kishaloyb.7937]

Minor correction, this game runs on UE4.

[@dlsz25-a]

DLSS3 is so useful when i play MFS2020

[@mcury85]

7700x already being a bottleneck? It must be the game optimization that is awful and not the CPU.

[@johnxo2678]

you should check your cpu clock speed on amd ryzen master if you want to see the real reason for the cpu bottleneck, amd ryzen master shows real cpu clock and its most likely way lower than you were promised from amd

[@VonSpud]

Nice to see these comparisons. I'm one of those guys with three 60hz 4k monitors. If I can achieve 60fps across all three screens thats good enough. I wonder if gfx card companies...nVidia in my case...have any incentive to improve RT performance via drivers when they would rather you just go buy the next gen cards or at least the top end current gen card. Too many multi core chips being underutilized...lazy programming.

[@Pisscan]

The game is an unoptimised mess 💀

[@ncooper4195]

The only game where ray tracing is actually worth the performance hit and visual boost is Minecraft.

[@X-RAY-89]

Glasses needed? I bet people like you can't even tell PlayStation 3 graphics from PlayStation 5 graphics.

[@ncooper4195]

@@X-RAY-89 you're right, Minecraft on PS3 and PS5 looks the same.

[@bitbat9]

Minecraft RTX does look amazing but ray tracing looks great in Metro Exodus too

[@ncooper4195]

@@bitbat9 the fact it's (Metro Exodus) actually playable and not a gimmick is definitely the most impressive part

[@jamo8154]

on bedrock, maybe, but BLS shaders tends to look a lot better (and is much more performant)

[@sirbughunter]

I'm a noob with PC hardware and PC gaming still, but would the performance be better with a 5800X3D? 🤔

[@austintse5719]

It might give him a few more frames with the increased buffer size but the game engine is the problem not the hardware.

[@sirbughunter]

@@austintse5719 I see... So Callisto Protocol is not very optimized then?

[@lukasr1166]

@@sirbughunter Engine problem. The engine can't make full use of the CPU. Only epic games can fix that.

[@lazerusmfh]

Can’t tell the difference 4k raster all the way

[@pedestrian_0]

I wish i could play this for the cool graphics but I'm scared of zombie games

[@RiasatSalminSami]

Unoptimized game.

[@edenarchive4150]

Wow. performance is almost as bad as Witcher 3. It's like for every game that gets released now the devs expect you to run it on a 4090 to get a decent framerate at medium settings.

[@larsalgore1770]

I don't understand people that pay 1500$ for 60FPS overpriced raytracing bullshit. Such a waste of money to be honest.