Rugby Pod React to England V Springboks | Why England Lost, Controversial Scrums & The Rassie Effect

Completely written off in the build up, Steve Borthwick's England produced a heroic performance against South Africa in their Rugby World Cup Semi Final but ultimately fell just short losing courtesy of a mammoth penalty kick from Handre Pollard.
Listen to the Full Podcast on Spotify 🎧 spoti.fi/49hxPVg
0:00 Heroic England Performances
8:20 Referee Controversy
11:50 England's Frustrations
16:30 Genuine Beef
#rugbyworldcup #rwc2023

[@albertmurphy6299]

I find your discussions objective and realistic. It is a pleasure listening to you guys. I’m a Springbok supporter and most you had to say in this discussion is spot on.

[@jackbennett5391]

As an England fan @albertmurphy6299 I totally agree.

[@karlernstbuddenbrock371]

Agreed. They fought bravely.

[@IAMJEFFREY-cw9ns]

👍🏻👍🏻

[@devonbagley1156]

Agreed. Great podcast

[@vinylrulesok8470]

💯 spot on.

[@user-jm6sl5ss6m]

I am also a South-African, and Springbok supporter, but I never miss a podcast from you guys. It's always insightful and entertaining. Great chemistry and energy between you guys.

[@IAMJEFFREY-cw9ns]

Jim Hamilton is a really good interviewer too. His interviews with Eben Etzebeth and many others are worth watching as well👍🏻

[@slowhand8818]

Billy should of been no where near that team big mistake by borthwick. ludlum should of been on the bench.

[@clembo13]

zach mercer was available and left behind. madness

[@freddy512]

Completely agree couldn't believe borthwick lost us that match with them changes

[@rodmitchell1151]

Mercer all day long.

[@MadMarchTaffy]

"Should have" but, yes - agree

[@kensladen]

@@freddy512Borthwick didn’t lose us anything…..players have to take responsibility for their own performance

[@MrMarkdaub]

These guys are brilliant. As a South African that was such a tough game to watch. England had us and I was dead quiet for 65min. They pick and executed a game plan to the T. Unfortunately for them we have quality in depth where it mattered. I had a feeling we might struggle to get up again after such a big game against France and that's the way it played out. We just managed to find a way. Respect to both teams.

[@sambeckingsale2542]

Credit to Andy Goode for correctly analyzing the refs performance. I reckon Andy nails his analysis more often than not.

[@14nst3w4rt]

O'Keefe got the call wrong on Eben when the England player was on all fours at the back of a ruck - but the ref got most right

[@corneldebeer5578]

Boks supporter here... Hard Luck England! You really brought a great effort and must say WELL PLAYED! Tip of Hat to you and really looking forward to future of English Rugby! ....AND LOVE the ABs!! May the best team win as BOTH deserve a 4th title - just love playing the ABs! #History #RugbyHallofFame

[@aldobonaso3481]

huge respect for this honest appraisal of the game, especially with the narrative being pushed by most pundits and fans. England can be proud of their performance. As a Bok fan I breathed a massive sigh of relief at the end of that match...proper test match drama.

[@ad2040]

Indeed. The only pundits on YT, from the many I have watched, who actually noted that the knee went down first in that last scrum thus creating the sideways movement. Seems like most YT pundits just follow the dominant narrative like sheep and know nothing about the game.

[@matthewbull6102]

By far and away the most balanced, accurate, intelligent podcast in rugby. Stephen Jones and co - and matt williams and co - should watch this and learn.

[@Johan10683]

This is the most unbiased and knowledgeable team on KZbin.

[@warwick2420]

Agreed.

[@leomalan6812]

Ozzie some of the worst

[@keithdomoney1374]

I agree, best comments I’ve heard. Well done guys.

[@sambeckingsale2542]

Correct. I am privy to some info with teams and world rugby - Andy Goode nails it often. Hamilton is a breath of fresh air.

[@Karma-qt4ji]

I don't know so much. Have you heard Matt Williams? 🤣🤣🤣

[@budyza180]

Hey guys, As a Springboks supporter I really appreciate your honesty and insight. With 20 to go, there was no way we could win and I was congratulating my English mates for the better performance on the day!

[@beermilkshake]

I’m sure they appreciated that for approximately 8 minutes

[@matmul4850]

​@@beermilkshake😅

[@christianwithers7335]

If props can't prop, you lose. S.A. might be slightly concerned that NZ's props have improved, so the big advantage S.A. may have is diminished. Genge and Sickler should be binned, and Steve got most decisions and tactics right, but one wrong, in that he needed Stuart on the bench not Kyle

[@budyza180]

Springboks fans are always more than "slightly concerned" when we play the All Blacks. ;-)@@christianwithers7335

[@budyza180]

Which is approximately 8 minutes longer than your erudite, considered contribution. ;-) @@beermilkshake

[@ajnemesis211]

A very fair and balanced analysis of the game. Great video lads.

[@soundscapemusic8980]

Elliot Daly has actually gathered a bit of a reputation for being able to put a hit in since the Lions tour of 2021. Fair play to him

[@SAS477]

Well done Daly. About time he did something significant as he has been a bit of a passenger recently. He needs to show his mate Farrell how to tackle at the right height and stop bitching like a big girl 👧

[@thabomataboge1699]

This is honestly the best analysis of that last ten minutes and the scrums. I'm South African and we were REALLY shocked with the refereeing mainly in the 1st half. That doesn't hide the fact that SA were UNBELIEVABLY poor.

[@paulvanderkolf7986]

As a Saffa the refereeing was excellent, very strict I agree, but I'd rather have strict calls against us and win with grit

[@ad2040]

The shoulder charge on Mostert by Martin at around 15 minutes, with absolutely no attempt at an armwrap, going unpenalized was ridiculous. That was a yellow right there. Unbelievable.

[@Chris-jt4ux]

The referereeing was fine, stop whining

[@prudeuncle]

​@@Chris-jt4uxhow are we whinging. We won we get to play a final. Nothing to whinge about.

[@Johan5able]

This was the most realistic discussion of all, about this game

[@johnnibaz6883]

Now this is what I call a real unbiased review. No bs about changing the whole scrum package just because of one controversial call. You get my love bois

[@hydrophobicgoldfish]

Watching you guys is refreshing. Unbiased, open minded, jovial and realistic. A true pleasure. Best rugby podcast by miles. Some other "pundits" could learn a lot.

[@StanWilks]

Billy V looked like he didn't want to be there!

[@naughtiusmaximus5057]

Nobody want him to be there 😂

[@rodmitchell1151]

Harsh but fair. He's been a good servant for England but not in the game.

[@bulltraderpt]

'been' key word@@rodmitchell1151

[@jonbrook4009]

I remember BV talking about his first England game against France and he said he was glad they took him off or didn't want to go on, I can't remember which. Not the attitude you expect from an International - or any - player really...

[@bekumzimgqibi2811]

I said this when he was jogging in. He looked tired already.

[@mariusmarais9750]

I don't give a F... what people say, I watch this game now 3 times, England played very structured and bloody well. They keep all the South African gates closed except for one ( ONLY ONE MISTAKE ) mistake, and hereby I do not want to blame or shame, I want to highlight the gate that England open for the Boks to sniff a gap for the win. Freddy Stewardt should have NEVER kick the up and under and with this kick it to the stronger field position of SA. He should have kick it deep and in the middle. And that mistake / kick cost England the game and the final, So leave Ben o Keefe out of this, as he give 70% of the 50/50 calls to England. ( Especialy the first half ) England number 8 and Farrel and Stewardt were excellent so please give them credit. Saying this, if England win, Stewardt was hands down the man off the match. Now - Remember the Springboks have in every world cup since 1995 ONE BAD game, 95 France - Semis, 99 - Aussie Semis, 03 NZ - Quarters, 07 Tonga - Group, 11 Ausies - Quarters, 15 Japan - Group, 19 Wales - Semis and for sure now England in Semis,

[@Karma-qt4ji]

I agree with all of that, but they were actually not attacking O'Keefe but voicing the fact that he was perfectly correct in his calls. Lighten up boet, we won fair and square and these pundits have just vouched for that.

[@expressoevangelism80]

Farrell’s lip cost us the game. He effectively gave away 6 points.

[@spervuurproduksies]

@@noggintube He is just pointing out a strategic error, and not blaming the player. You can also argue that Farrel's belligerence helped his team to front up.

[@spervuurproduksies]

​@@noggintube He says he does not want to blame and credits Steward for his good performance. That's where I am coming from.

[@spervuurproduksies]

@@noggintube Maybe because I found his view interesting and not created specifically to belittle anyone. I am actually targeting YOUR POST, not defending HIM. Probably because I think it's just silly to be so defensive about a certain strategy that failed. We all agree that Steward did a stellar job. So maybe it all is silly.

[@Robrot91]

These are the guys that should be on TV, objective a d unbiased. Bloodie hell those ausie and irish pundets just hate SA lol. So many pundits saying the way SA play is wrong and not good for the game but it's England that have been the kicking side for a while now. SA actually tries to score tries.

[@Fredders88]

SA were bad for the game - the stop start thing, the water carriers - they've got better now.

[@scroopynooperz9051]

The ONLY reason they are bitching about the South African gameplan is because they cannot emulate it with success. Do you really think if the Aussies or the Irish had the physical strengths and gifts the Springbok side has at their disposal, that they WOULDN'T use it and play to those strengths? As long as what the Springboks do is not contrary to what is stipulated by rugby union rules, what use is bitching about whatever tactics or gameplans they employ? Those "pundits" are just ridiculous and sound like a bunch of nagging women more than anything else.

[@ofentsemelato6735]

Maybe their best trait is why they are not on TV. Put them on TV and lose what we love most about their show.

[@mikebiagio4155]

⁠the game is premised around the fact that there are many ways to win. You can't say it's bad for the game winning using one of the ways.

[@jean-claudeionita8844]

As Bok fan I must say I admire your fairplay, guys! Respect. Thank you for an unforgettable game!

[@trianglestop]

Clear and informed discussion. All Saffa and English fans need to hear this to get an accurate perspective on the game and some of the more controversial elements that have fans letting loose on social media. The level of unbiased reflection is a credit to the presenters. Thank you.

[@aleccastro4761]

Thank you gents for the most balanced and insightful analysis of the game. Especially when looking at Ben O Keeffe - the man doesn't deserve what's come his way

[@joeritchie2]

I also thought O’Keefe handled both the quarterfinal and this semi quite well and has received way too much uninformed and biased criticism from French and England supporters. Like any ref, some of his calls may have been questionable, but in both matches I thought he got the big ones right and communicated them clearly. After Angus Gardner and the Georgian fellow whose name’s not on the tip of my tongue at the moment, he’s been one of the fairest officials, and the TMO he’s worked with, also a Kiwi, Whitehouse, has been superb and unlike some of the others, he didn’t needlessly interject himself into the game to review every rugby collision and helped the game flow.

[@sibzism]

@joeritchie2 yeah, I really enjoy how he let's them play on and not stop start a million times! 😊

[@willoosthuizen5864]

As a Saffa, I appreciate the honesty here. I'm happy to admit that England was the better team on the day and the Boks, sneaked one by playing 12 minutes of rugby at the end.

[@numanoid5665]

Eng were the better team in the night. Ireland were the better team a few weeks back Ups and downs if the game. Luck of the bounce etc

[@Karma-qt4ji]

Most of us are. With 12 minutes left to play, I was contemplating turning off the tv but was fixed by morbid fascination - luckily for me. We dodged a bullet big time, even though it was us who went and got the win in those 12 minutes. Scary AF!! I don't know if my heart can take another game this weekend lol.

[@interestedbystander196]

I disagree that England were the better team. Man for man, on paper, SA were the better team. In a combined side, you have two or three English players, tops. What is true is that England played better. No argument there. But to say that England were the better team ... just, no.

[@willoosthuizen5864]

@@interestedbystander196 "on the day"

[@El_Gato1066]

“On paper” is irrelevant once the game has started…the comments above are referring to who was the better team on the day… And of course that is open to discussion…. England were the better team in the first half, but never looked like scoring a try…. South Africa can score a try at anytime from anywhere and definitely dominated all/most of the second half….

[@user-mh5yq1mm6e]

Excellent analysis - and nice to see the referee being defended after all the criticism he had received.

[@sibzism]

Shame, that poor man! 🤦🏽‍♀️ The French put a target on his back, and all he's trying to do is his job! 😩

[@cobus5841]

Excellent commentary! This was an epic battle and England should be proud. Now to see if our team has the mental resilience to step up their game and wage the next battle against the All Blacks!

[@9Charcot]

Absolutely spot on analysis boys. We can't blame the ref. ..I felt the momentum shift when England changed their front row, just hoping we could hang on but well done to the boks...I agree also that Sinkler has lost his edge compared to 3 or 4 years ago...Perhaps Borthwick needs a chat with Pat Lamb because both his 1st choice props seem to be going backwards since moving to Bristol....scrummaging and in the loose! Just my opinion.

[@Gilescowdemdem]

Yeh, I think our front row will need a lot of work as, presumably, marler and cole won't make it to the next WC and our next in line are super dynamic in general play but not the strongest in the scrum.

[@davidpeters3857]

Totally agree,mind you even Semi went backwards at Bristol

[@9Charcot]

So true....I had forgotten but you are dead right

[@waynus2021]

@@Gilescowdemdem presumably??🤣🤣🤣

[@sibzism]

@noggintube Interesting you say this because it's EXACTLY what Rassie calls "battle stats". 😊 which is all about *meaningful impact* on the game! 👌🏾 I know he's like marmite, but he's also a rugby genius! 😂

[@CC-om8ze]

I definitely saw the Springboks calm down when Pollard came on. He made a HUGE difference from minute one.

[@nickinchina2552]

This channel has been so great all World Cup, Superb. The semi was tough, proud of England but SA did what they do best - grinding out wins. Congrats to them!

[@wesrobmat]

Howzit boys, Bok supporter here. Thanks for a fantastic podcast; I have been looking forward to them as much as the games on the weekend! There have been a few battles in this World Cup, but the Bokke have been at war! Man, this has been the craziest lineup for the Bokke, and to face the All Blacks at the end is like meeting the final boss in a Video Game. Win or lose, I am so proud of the team, and I also look forward to the Haka, as it makes the hairs on my arms stand up. The bigger the challenge, the greater the victory! On a side note I think the Argi's want the bronze more than the English, it is going to be ON!!

[@sibzism]

😊😊 "The bigger the challenge, the greater the victory"... love that! 👌🏾🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦

[@jackbennett5391]

Obviously it was a devastating loss from an English point of view. The result wasn't what English rugby wanted, but it was the performance that we needed. I felt immense pride watching England during that game - a feeling that I hadn't felt since WC2019. It was a heroic performance. On another day, we could have edged it. For the first time, I feel Steve Borthwick is the man to lead us. I don't really have any concern with our backs, the talent is there and we will utilise those talents more going forward. Definitely more so when it's not as wet as it was on Saturday evening. We need some refinements in certain areas; i'd argue up front really. Our front row needs a lot of work, as does a succession plan for Jamie George. If England can get this sorted, I think that the forwards will considerably improve with decent coaching and continuity in selection. All in all, the future is very bright for England. Lastly, South Africa dug in brilliantly and deserved to win. If they do go on to beat New Zealand, (although I don't think they will), no-one could ever argue that they don't deserve it.

[@gordion1]

English rugby is not in a good place, just as their play in the world cup surprised most, it is a knockout completion with a favourable draw. I feel England will return to struggle once the other home nations lock horns with the semi-finalists.

[@sibzism]

Definitely!💯 England Rugby (and Ireland Rugby, for that matter) is in a good place! And Borthwick really silenced the naysayers with this one! 😊 👌🏾 The only thing I would say, though, is that victories are earned, not deserved!...Each and every team that plays deserves to win.. but earning the win is a whole other thing 😊 And like you say, if South Africa wins against the All Blacks...it will have been a well-earned victory indeed! 🤞🏾

[@rorkesparks2598]

So much mud slinging between both set of fans at the moment..... I'm a Saffa... and so agree with you.... the way everyone was slaging England off before the world cup...and for them to get this far...and play like they did!!!!! And to lose a 50/50 game!!!!!! If I were English I would be sooo proud and stick my chest out as far as I could!!!!!!! Watch out Ireland in the 6 Nations!!!!!! These guys are coming!!!!!!!

[@stephenreeds3632]

SB stopped the rot which he had to do. Will be interesting how Eng move on from that.

[@christianwithers7335]

Dan and CD look fine at hooker. It's all about the props though 😬

[@myshepspud1]

As a Springbok supporter fair play to England. They dominated us for 65 min. Can be proud the team played with passion! I actually respected Farells will to compete.

[@sibzism]

Yeah, I thought he was outstanding on the night! 👌🏾 Needs to work on not letting his emotions be his own undoing (and his teams)... but everything else about him was sensational 😊

[@infernogamers168]

Proper test match. SA bench is best in the world Excited to see them in the final 👏🏼

[@johnjungkook2721]

if England dominated you'd think they would have come close to scoring a try

[@davidharvey4059]

I'm English This is all well and good, heroic defence, fronting up to SA wonderfully BUT this was based around a game-plan that actively avoided ANY running with the ball 4 years on from the 2019 RWC final, England have no backs moves AT ALL, they weren't even prepared to run off 2nd or 3rd phase Until that changes, they won't beat the best sides

[@ernievan7745]

Great discussion. Thanks. As a South African, I can say this, England outplayed SA for 60 minutes. South Africa outplayed England in 10 minutes, that mattered. Hats off to England, and respect to the team and the management. A game is 80 minutes, and what a game . Maybe next time England.

[@joshuathomas4348]

Andy speaking the real facts. Flippen love listening to you guys. Purely objective. Love love love

[@tiaan8551]

When the boks played like that in 2019 it was bad for the game now its called spectacular,only people that where underestimating england saying their gonna get taken to the gutters where northerners,south africa was always cautious

[@ktm690endurorally]

Thank you!!! This is why I love watching you guys! You are the only ones that’s actually talking about that Ben clearly said he gave the penalty for the knee on the ground! That call was good 👌💥

[@sibzism]

Huge appreciation for the honesty from you gentlemen. 🙏🏾 It's always a little more clearer when you watch the match again AFTER the emotional high 😂 One thing is for sure...England gave us hell!! 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾 As someone who's been watching the awful press those lads have had, I truly hope this made up for that a bit! 😊 Poor Ben O Keeffe has been very poorly treated...he explained everything EVERY TIME so I'm not sure why the negative press! Anyways...the finish line is here and it's gonna be epic! 🇿🇦🇿🇦🇳🇿🇳🇿

[@sozilla]

Good luck to South Africa, they were so good fighting back into that semi. If they can take the batterings that both France and England dished out, then come back and beat the ABs in the final, they will be the worthiest of champions. I'll be cheering for them this weekend.

[@sibzism]

@sozilla 🙏🏾🙏🏾 Thanks mate 😊 Here's hoping and praying and hyperventilating 😂 I totally agree, if they win it, they really would have earned the victory! 🇿🇦

[@SAS477]

This is the best discussion by you guys since the World Cup started. Balanced unbiased factual using your rugby knowledge expertise, to share with us how and why the game turned out like it did. Thanks from a Saffer. 🇿🇦

[@michaelmeyer4346]

As a Springbok supporter England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 was on their Game and Steve inherited the Mess that Eddie has left him to get the team back in Form with very little time your discussion is realistic on all Games played no matter what team was playing love listening to the show a Fan from South Africa 🇿🇦 👍🏉

[@markcourtney6113]

Just one extra comment on the scrums, the first scrum where Ox Nche was on, Marler and Cole were both still on and it was probably the most or second most dominant scrum for SA. They are undeniably better scrummagers than Sinckler et al and were 50 mins into a game by this point, but it really does boil down to how destructive Nche is at the moment in the scrum. I am convinced SA starts with Ox, Bongi, and maybe even Trevor this weekend, to try get ascendancy from the start of the game

[@janvanderschyff9374]

I agree it is a pleasure to listen to someone honestly reviewing what happened and the context provided is great.

[@brianblignaut5843]

Really love the unbiased analysis of the game, well done boys

[@altonlewis7893]

For the Springboks it's not embarrassing, the coaches and players understand this 100%, one have to make immediate change, doesn't matter which game or level.❤

[@sibzism]

Is this about taking Marnie off?... If so, I completely agree! 😊 And Marnie knows as well! What's worse for him... being the one left on the field while you cost the team? *OR* Having your band of brothers say 'its not working out for you today, why dont you sit this one out?' It changes nothing about how much respect and buy-in he has from his coaches and teammates! 😊 (and fans, for that matter). AND... they've played him to start in both knockout games so he can build the experience! As Siya said...If we win, he will win too! 🏆 But first, we need to get there... and everyone has a role to play in the journey! 😊🇿🇦

[@windycorners3669]

Love the transparency and your views. You boys get it spot on every time. Keep it coming!

[@andrebrink2189]

I have to say you guys are brilliant. It is very refreshing to see three guys have a open objective discussion and are always fair and level headed in your feedback. It certainly is currently one of the best channels to watch. You guys are top notch in your feedback and passion for the game. To many people are ruining the love for the game and I know there are issues that need sorting. Rugby is awesome, and is played in many different ways. That makes it exciting and different. I feel for the referees today. They deserve so much credit, the stress and the abuse they deal with is not fair. Decisions will go for you and against you sometimes. I feel for England, they played brilliant rugby on the weekend and the Springboks had to dig deep. I think the Springboks have shown this Stronger Together belief and it has pulled us through. I fear for the final. I think we will be dead tired and battered and NZ are peaking and playing brilliant rugby again. This is a great rivalry and I hope the game is great on Saturday. Keep up this great channel gents, you guys are a great service for rugby and fair sportsmanship.

[@bm8725]

Sinckler always has his feet slightly too far back even at the set. Whether that's because of his previous back problems or not I don't know, but it just means he's now a pretty weak scrummager because he has no forward force from his hips at the initial shove.

[@jankelnieuwoudt7852]

Kitshof has also started struggling with this. Has dropped plenty of knees and also got pinged in the semi. I love Kitsie but, he hasn't been his usual self for us during the RWC

[@RicksPhatPharm-vw2lb]

Yes because Marx isn't there... Marx is a phenomenal scummager and he talked alot of the front row pressure off his props, i don't think it's a kitshoff problem as he has to set up this way with Bongi who is not that strong

[@johannblignaut1966]

Have to apologise for Willie Le Roux’s behaviour.It doesn’t belong in rugby no matter what Itoje and Earls do.Suppose its to late in his career to do something about it.🇿🇦

[@SAS477]

@@johannblignaut1966 It’s time for “Knock On Le Roux” to retire he is not adding any value just increasing the friction. Waste of energy.

[@waynus2021]

@@johannblignaut1966 There`s a huge difference between screaming in celebration inside the match timeline in the heat of battle and screaming at someone who you`ve already beaten at full time . I personally don`t like either but one is just unacceptable with regards to respect to your opponent

[@kevinpillay6103]

Bortwick was praised for that performance but he must take blame for choosing Billy Vinopola who is so laxs and no focus. What a joke sub.

[@Karma-qt4ji]

When Vunipola got red carded a couple of weeks ago, I thought England had dodged a bullet and would have to select someone else. Mercer perhaps? Lucky for us they didn't.

[@shaunjayes8842]

Such a good channel. Clear, well thought out, and unbiased opinions. I'm a South African and I really appreciate what you guys do. Thank you for this.

[@carlh296]

Great review thanks guys. Wish main line media were more impartial and realistic the way you guys are. As an Englishman I think my dark thoughts looking forward are this was Englands best performance. This was at something like 96% output, and we lost to an SA who were maybe ambling along at 75%. We have nothing more to give, and hence we are quite rightly down at no. 6 in the world. How do we get to no. 4 in the next two years? Who knows, but we will need at the very least 3 new props, 1 or 2 centers and 1 winger. Unless Steve finds them we have no chance of challenging any of the top 4. Steve and the English clubs have their work cut out.

[@wesrobmat]

If England looks at ways to score more try's and not just rely on the 3-pointers, then you have a team that can go all the way! They played an exceptional game in the semi's and as a bok supporter I can honestly say that I have a few more grey hairs after that game. But the try from Snyman pulled the rug from under the English. Your forwards are working way to hard just to have Farrel kick for post! If the English scored a try on top of those conversions they would have won.

[@davidmoon8464]

As always best analysis around. Jim’s Scottish but very even handed and bang on. I do think there is something wrong with the rules when all 3 of the most important games result in legitimate debates about refereeing. Although an England fan for over half a century, I think the French suffered the worst from poor decisions.

[@spervuurproduksies]

Nah. the French were just the worst losers. Their 26-year old captain has a lot to learn. No-one respects whingers, and the French have unseated SA as the biggest whingers in World Rugby.

[@sportnatics4504]

Farrells discipline was poor although he had a good game otherwise. He also should have been sent off for cynical play, caused Damian De Allende`s pass to gte knocked out of his hands while having advantage 5m out from Englands line. Don`t now how the TMO didnt advise O`Keefe, clear as day he lifts his knee.

[@levstone415]

All comments are about how the podcast is fair and well balanced and then you add your little bit of unbalanced bias!

[@sportnatics4504]

lol theres video evidence clown@@levstone415

[@RobertDixonTaylor]

Great pod guys. Very fair, and you actually analyse the game and rugby in general. So much better than GBrugby from North and South. There's been a lot of talk about scums. Watched France England WC 2003... I was really surprised at how quickly the scrums went.. ball in ball out! Historically the scrum was meant to be a restart, not the ludicrously dominant part of the game it has become. Is there a discussion in world rugby to be had about this issue?? Anyway cheers guys.

[@christoels6748]

Fantastic take on the game! Great Pod you have here and keep going.

[@henri369]

Man.... as rugby lover I've got to say this is the best show ever. Call it what it is (or was).

[@keoniwright3647]

The ghost of Dombrandt wins? And where was Ludlam? Eddie had favorites... Borthers has some of the same.

[@rob.1]

Dombrandt has been awful for England as as Billy. Earl Miles ahead of either of them.

[@andrewkinsey4463]

I am a huge Bok supporter and I hate the way Willie Le Roux has the verbals not with just the opposition but with his own teammates. Choose just about any game over the last decade and he is mouthing off at just about anyone in ear shot, often, amazingly enough when HE is the one has just fumbled and shanked a kick or missed a tackle, not the other guys. I hope he is a nicer bloke in person than he appears to be to the outside observer like me. So what if England players have been over-celebrating on the tiniest of victories. The in the face celebrations are uncalled for, unnecessary and not in keeping with the ethos that the Bok team professes to be about. An ethos we keep being reminded of from Kolisi, Neinaber & Ersamus.

[@tobievanrensburg2663]

Thank you to this podcast team! I can see the guys are bleeding after the semi final game but your commentry is appreciated! Your knowledge of the game and what was happening on the field is brilliant! Well done

[@davidpearn2484]

Very interested to see how the 6 nations go 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

[@Brucemcleod2345]

I was cheering so hard for England. You’ve got some excellent players, 3 brilliant first fives, best at drop goals and penalties and some great forwards.

[@awf-l3684]

This is the best unbiased commentary of the game guys well done and specially of the end an all the emotion on both sides

[@chrismia2402]

This could be the best podcast (is that what we call it?) ever. So level headed and accurate. I watch yourselves and quite a few others for many months now and this tops everything.

[@Bill-bn2ew]

Long term the Chessum brothers at lock for England with George Martin and Itoje covering lock and six to replace Lawes. Earl at seven and Mercer at 8 with curry able to cover the back row. England desperately need some better scrummaging props than Genge and Sinckler, being moody around the pitch doesn't cut it at test level, Ox Nche won that game when he came on and dismantled Sinckler.

[@enriquenelson7184]

Bok fan, England did everything right except win the game. Huge respect 🦌💂🏻

[@sibonelodlamini]

As a South African, I appreciate the honestly from these guys.

[@StuartTheunissen]

Absolutely the most humble and unbiased coverage I've seen on this match. Not easy when the stakes are so high. Salute you guys!

[@andresdeks]

England kicked 41 times and could not score a try against a "flat" bok side. Not a pretty game to watch at all. Curry was a beast and all bloodied but cries over Wit Kant😂😂

[@BanzLanda86]

Or wind gat 😂😂😂

[@naughtiusmaximus5057]

Do you have access to some secret voice recording of what was said or something? How do you know what was said?

[@piccupaul]

​@@naughtiusmaximus5057They have no clue what was said.

[@BanzLanda86]

@@naughtiusmaximus5057 All the Boks are multilingual bud. So, it's possible he confused the Afrikaans words. The only way to solve this is to get both players to testify under oath.

[@naughtiusmaximus5057]

I genuinely hope it's just a misunderstanding. It's a shame Bongi couldn't have cleared the air about it with Tom Curry and shook his hand after the game. Tom didn't want to pursue the matter, it was RWC who took it up on their own initiative. @@BanzLanda86

[@jonbrook4009]

I think it's worth mentioning that England's game plan was the rugby equivalent of football's 'parking-the-bus' and not a style that should grace a WC final. I thought the breakdown play was outstanding from England and Ben Earl was like a man possessed but if the only way for a team to play is to bypass 2/3 of the team is a pretty sad indictment of their skills.

[@davidpearn2484]

Yes Earl was certainly possessed when they were awarded a free kick jeez 🤪.

[@Trueblue222]

Do you not think that it was a one off tactic given the conditions and the opposition, a tactic which reduced the mighty , all conquering Boks to panic mode. South Africa have had four years with the same coaching set up , England four months. No matter what the conditions this England team shouldn’t have got anywhere near the South Africans but they did and they had them rattled. The tactics nearly payed off and the Boks met their physical match right up until the benches cleared. England were being told they wouldn’t get out of the group and came within three minutes of being in the final. Credit where credit is due for crying out loud.

[@jonbrook4009]

@@davidpearn2484 Agreed: the celebration of everything is nauseating. Happens in the Premiership all the time, wingers running in from the far side of the pitch to celebrate a scrum penalty ffs...

[@jonbrook4009]

@@Trueblue222 Of course it was a 'tactic' because they couldn't rely on anything else. I stand by the original point: if the only way to win a match is effectively negate your own 15-man game you don't really have much of a game to start with. If you did you would use it. The problem with this, as you rightly say 'one-off tactic' is that it will excuse so much of the ineffective, pedestrian dross that has gone before it. England's group had a poor Argentina on the night, a lacklustre Samoa, Japan and Chile. They made hard work of it against Fiji in the quarter final playing their normal game. This 'one-off' performance will seal contracts for coaching and manangement staff and convince the RFU they are doing the right thing - and England will finish perhaps third or fourth in the 6N and nothing will change. I thought England showed some real gusto at the breakdown and really matched up to the Boks but there was nothing else outside of that contest.

[@DouglasLyons-yg3lv]

Add to this the constant running on field of coaches disguised as medics. SA was equally guilty of this and it squeezed the life out of the game. Once O’Keefe chased them all off under the threat of penalty in about the 60th minute the game developed a bit of shape and SA took charge. I genuinely hope Argentina shows up on Friday and runs England off the pitch.

[@lukasvr5088]

It is fantastic to see such impartial commentary. Thank you, it was great to watch.

[@bonganiza2650]

Thanks for the honesty regarding the refeering & scrum calls.

[@jaconieuwoudt717]

"Our strategy was to only play the last 10 minutes to be fresh for the final" 🙂

[@andresdeks]

Mooi😂

[@johnmcintyre800]

Ye were very lucky

[@tomiselepe7066]

😂😂 Rassie said that for sure😂😂

[@naidoo307]

😅😅😅😅

[@knucklesaukuso5086]

And then get smoked from the ABs who’s well rested and fresh like a new pair of kicks 🤣

[@paulvanderkolf7986]

So much respect to you guys and your view on Ben O'Keeffe, very objective, I thought he was exceptional. He blew an amazing game and it was one of the best referee performances I've seen in the world cup

[@wilhelmvanzyl6101]

Really excellent and unbiased commenty - so refreshing to see! Keep up the good work, guys

[@GreatKoos]

Great chat as always. Agree that there were a few decisions that seemed to go England's way in the 1st half. But nothing crazy to detract from the fact that the Boks were nowhere. A couple of times it seemed they got away with pulling down maul which I was surprised by.

[@timtam6442]

Genge going down on one knee is not an offence, unless it is deemed to be a deliberate collapse. How on earth can the ref conclude the action was “deliberate” ?. If not deliberate, it’s a re-set.

[@MiguelMagalhaesplusmeup]

It's deliberate because once engaged he could not counter the pressure of the opposing prop/scrum - it's deliberate in that regard. And then begins pushing on the angle - it's clear as daylight

[@ivanjohnston3204]

S.A was blown for the same thing in the first half

[@watarota]

The English played some of the best rugby they were capable of and the Boks played close to their worst and they still won. Just shows you the insane difference between the teams that on their best day they couldn't beat us on our worst day!

[@taaniadyzel9756]

Bud, England played the ugliest Bok rugby, out SA'd SA for 65mins, but its a 80min game which they seemed to forget... I really gave kudo's to the Poms untill they started with their sore losing and allegations. Bunch of dweebs.

[@rooftile883]

Was lucky to win, but still cocky.

[@tonkerdog1]

But what made you play so badly…the English game plan.

[@davidpearn2484]

That's one way to look at it another Northern hemisphere blow out, sir clive completely wrong again 😮.

[@mcmustangno1567]

@@rooftile883no line breaks the whole match for england, time in the Boks 22 measured in seconds. There was no luck here except on englands side to look like they were close. The score line flatters them and now with their ‘best’ players all retiring, england have another difficult 4 years in front of them, the blame lies squarely at england rugby hq!

[@joejames4095]

If Faz would have kept his pie-hole closed - the ten yards brought the kick within Libbok's range and theres the ball game!

[@mattpotter8725]

You talk about the scrums but until the second half they were stable. I do agree with you that these decisions can be 50-50 and I've been saying this to my mates for a while but something needs to be done about scrums and especially not scrummaging straight and pushing before the ball goes in via technology as and when the scrum is actually happening because I don't see how scrums go from being stable to not without something changing. Now it could be England players getting tired or as you said replacements not being as good for England as those they were replacing, but I think instructions had gone onto the pitch to try more disruptive and it was kind of a throw of the dice in a game SA were losing and needed to get back into. Even as an England fan I'm quite glad the final is NZ v SA because I think it'll be a better game, but I'm still gutted we lost.

[@duskyjackal1699]

Why is it, (feels like every bloody team we've faced) they bring out their absolute best performance in the past 2 years!? And other teams, not naming names, gets a waaay easier time at it. This weekend, I will 100% be supporting and screaming for the "Groen Kant"! GO BOKKE!!

[@jzkramer]

I'll be going for the Black Kants.

[@vanzylventer9941]

You can't say England played well, because they didn't play any rugby. Kicking the ball 41 times is not really playing is it? I'd say they kicked better than us maybe or maybe recovered their kicks better than us. And that is about that. We attacked, tackled, scrummed and defended better than them. Anyway, England loves a "heroic" defeat more than a victory.

[@naughtiusmaximus5057]

England did all of those things better than SA, for almost 70 minutes. They out - bokked the springboks and many SA fans and even players have said this much. As for building your game around scrum penalties, that's hardly heroic is it. Boks had the best bench, that's all. England matched or bettered them at everything else.

[@andresdeks]

I cannot understand why the Boks played England game and did not stick to their own way

[@vanzylventer9941]

@@naughtiusmaximus5057 I just don't agree man. After watching the game again, we definitely tackled better than them. Whe are the ones that scored a try, not England. They disrupted our lineouts, I will give that to England. England got the 50/50 calls in the first half, so that also played into their gameplan to escape from their half and kick the ball back into ours. They just kicked the ball, that's all they did.

[@garethpearce5255]

They had a game plan that was nearly successful. But the game plan just seems to involve the other team losing it themselves through mistakes, as opposed to England actually trying to win it. They ended up failing through a lack of creativity and ambition.

[@melaniebecker5853]

Love this podcast ! Thanks guys 🙏🏼.. since this World Cup have been a huge fan 🇿🇦💚💛

[@goebel4866]

The most objective, balanced, and insightful post match review, well done guys!

[@Johan10683]

Just funny how England celebrate every opponent mistake like they've just won the world cup. Pathetic actually.

[@jadenphilander8799]

Its so stupid. The irish, Scotland and Wales do the same as well. Its so stupid.

[@Robbybabes1988]

Ja, players going mental for a knock on. Well until Ox came on then those knock on celebrations stopped haha

[@stefanjones202]

Dreadful game, the ball didn't go through the hands to the wings once. Yes, it was wet but so what? They employed the brand of rugby I hate. Negative and plsying the percentages. Delighted they lost.

[@garethpearce5255]

Yeah I don't quite understand all the praise England are getting. Yes their defence was pretty good, and they found a way to slow down the Springboks, but they played with such a lack of creativity and ambition. South Africa weren't much better. The repetitive nature of the contest was pretty dull. The tight scoreline gave it some drama, but a good spectacle to watch it was not. England had zero line breaks. Zero. It felt like England were waiting to win the game through South African mistskes as opposed to taking the game from them. I'd be pretty disappointed if I was an English fan, yes they showed some heart, but some skill and ingenuity wouldn't go astray.

[@scroopynooperz9051]

​@@garethpearce5255what other options did England have? That was the only gameplan they could have employed which would give them any chance - plus the conditions were in their favour. Everyone loves ripping on England for some reason but they gave the world champs a right go - who cares if they went on to win a world cup playing "boring rugby"? If the history books etches you in as the world cup winner, you really think anyone English would care that it was boring win? 😂

[@rooftile883]

​@@garethpearce5255They get praise for the fire and commitment.

[@garethpearce5255]

@@scroopynooperz9051 Maybe they didn't have the players for any other game plans, I don't know. I would have thought as professional rugby players they might have been able to offer some variation to their play, to try and score some tries. Even some variation in the kicking game would have been good. They didn't look like they had any ideas other than kicking and waiting for a south african mistake. I mean no line breaks in 80 minutes of rugby seems pretty crazy. I think they deserve some praise for pushing south africa to the limit, and for some solid defence, but the lack of ambition, creativity, and execution are pretty fatal flaws. I'm sure English fans wouldn't care how they won a world cup, it would be a sad indictment on the game if a team who didn't want to score a try went on to win the cup.

[@scroopynooperz9051]

@@garethpearce5255 what they were doing was WORKING - Springboks were making a ton of mistakes especially under the high ball. Granted, that way of play would have probably seen them get slaughtered against the All Blacks, but against SA it almost got them to the final. Had their semi been against the ABs they probably would have opted for a different game plan. Hopefully this is the start of good things to come from England. They have a core of youngsters that can get it done.

[@pricejoss]

Billy Vuniploa did not seem to be there on Saturday. He's given a lot to England over the years and it was a real shame.

[@willempretorius6700]

Whether the boks win or not, one of the best things I discovered this RWC were your podcast. It's refreshing to hear unbiased, insightful and knowledgeable content. Hope you guys continue.

[@nahshondaniel5824]

To all the angry poms that were looking to come here for comfort go watch another podcast. This one isn't biased. The fact that they even admitted to Ben basically handing you guys the first half yet u still lost!!!!

[@Trueblue222]

Oh look , an Australian still trying to feel part of the debate. Shouldn’t you be at home watching Neighbours with the rest of your rugby players.

[@nahshondaniel5824]

​@@Trueblue222shouldn't you be cleaning the stadium for the finals that you're hosting but not a part of?

[@Trueblue222]

@@nahshondaniel5824 Wait , let me get this straight , you think Paris is in England ? You are aware that the World Cup is in France aren’t you and being hosted by the French. Please tell me that you’re not thicker than I thought you were. Or is it that you’re trying to say something else but your command of the English language is limited , which is it ?

[@JAKLAR79]

So happy there is common sense here regarding the weather. Anyone whose played rugby in the rain know that it levels the playing field in a big way. England played well and I would never say otherways but my god everytime I mention the weather I get pelted from every side. Great chat chaps. Some really interesting points here.

[@lickybombie7778]

You guys are truly incredible very honest and have great rugby minds... Absolutely incredible all of you ❤

[@andrewkinsey4463]

I thoroughly enjoy your analysis guys. Thank you so much

[@siphesihlengubo3450]

i wish Matt Williams could listen to this amazing analysis. Fair, accurate, non biased

[@charltheron2769]

Honest and fair review. Subscribed. In the Final analysis, England at their best in the World Cup could not defeat the Boks at their worst. ;-)

[@markwinter7511]

At 15-6 Farrell puts a beautiful little kick into the bok 22. Arendse fumbles it and Eng get a scrum. 3 points to make it 18-6 and its all over. But they DIDN'T. Instead the boks get out and score 10 points and win. Its about a lot more than the final scrum.

[@wernermiller4318]

Love you guys being unbiased. But the heart of the Boks wanted it more. Wonderfull talk show😊

[@philholyman9036]

Can somebody explain what kind of pressure Genge was under to force his knee to the ground? FDK hadn't even looked interested in putting the ball in at that stage, so there should be absolutely zero pushing. So why would Genge drop a knee? I spent around 12 years as an openside, so I never really got arsed enough about scrums to even push beyond locking out, but somebody must have been putting the stink on Genge to make him drop the knee. How? Happy to hear any thoughts, because it just doesn't make any sense, other than SA put a crafty shove on.

[@tonyjforder]

The moment the Boks turned the scrum around I was pleading for England to kick deeper or kick to contest their catch, but not to contest for the ball in the air as those scrums were the only way they were looking to get close enough.

[@bowlingarry]

Steward needed to put that ball long ...we needed to keep them as far back as possible and see the game out ... shades of O'Gara in the lions SA test😢

[@aidond1034]

I really love you guys analysis You guys are brutal honest Thank you

[@stephdegoede8316]

Os Du Randt, Tendai Beast Mtawarira, Ox Nche... funny how every time SA makes it to a RWC final they have a LH which can dominate and turn things around. Wonder if there is something in that?

[@petervandermerwe422]

So refreshing to hear an honest unbiased review from people who know what they're talking about. Well done

[@mikebrownphotography2784]

Great analysis. I also felt england gotall the 50/50 calls in the first half. Very surprised at the refereeing on the maul defense. Dominant scrums in the second half leads 50/50 calls to go to the boks. Final scrum blown for clear knee on the ground, which happened before any potential 'scrumming in." Farrel got lucky with his attitude and deliberately tripping De Allende at the ruck.

[@Mike-ym6rl]

World Champions find a way forward, no matter how battered they may be. A true warrior allows his enemy to make mistakes, and when it is least expected, he strikes the death blow.

[@patrickchilds2987]

Yes you nailed it. I thought England played really well but the Boks showed their quality especially in their bench and closed the game . That's the mark of a good team and I wish them the best next week