Jagex Let Reddit Win - Varlamore Final Dawn Blog #3 (OSRS)

[@Lemonskill77]

The funniest thing is that after they explained their reasoning for making it tradable, all the reddit comments now agree and want them to change it back. They should've just stated their reasoning instead of folding immediately lmao

[@straight2thepoint790]

Thats because everything in reddit is manufactured opinion.

[@candypwns]

It's almost like those could be multiple different people with different opinions

[@BloodReaper95]

Just scrap the cape and give the tormented bracelet an upgrade like you did with the torture with the rancour.

[@Jachammer93]

Maybe cus its DIFFERENT PEOPLE commenting their opinon?? Fucking idiotic take

[@Forged4War206]

@@candypwnsIt’s almost like Reddit can’t make up their mind and just jump on the most popular opinion at the time even if they have no idea what they’re actually upvoting.

[@FizzTheFox]

"we dont want this to be the mage inferno" ... "we have made this the mage inferno" man i love gagex

[@offensiveyeet]

I just feel like jagex is multiple parents holding up items to a nonverbal child begging for it to not continue setting off.

[@JS-hb8mk]

Honestly, i really want this to be the mage Inferno. And with that I'd love for the cape to be untradable and separate from the MA2 capes. However, I agree that it should be broken down into some type of useful currency relating to a thrall upgrade. I believe that's perfectly fine. But if they're now not intending on this being a mage inferno (IE difficult for only a few percent of players to complete) then this shouldn't be seen as what should ultimately be the BIS mage cape for the future. If it is intending to be very difficult where only a small percentage of players are able to complete the content; I do believe it needs a minor buff in dmg percent and to modify the defensive stats.

[@heboxjonge]

"jagex have some confidence" is the best way to describe this and honestly not the first time i felt that way personally

[@ashyams_]

polls and community feedback from a minority crying and bawling on reddit is ruining this game

[@mattaudette9550]

​@@ashyams_ i think the problem lies with the mods themselves. I think theyre all chronic redditors/soyboys and generally agree with the soy hivemind. It is the internet safe space that matches the political leanings of the game. It justs makes sense People blaming reddit but the jmods ARE reddit

[@hawkotf3524]

⁠@@mattaudette9550somehow you made this about politics, you are an idiot lmao

[@Tory-JJ]

Yep. I dont use reddit and the people that do are terminally online wierdos ​@ashyams_

[@jdc673]

Ikr, like what would you give more respect to? Jagex saying no to Reddit and standing on their idea... or jagex instantly folding like a lawn chair. Like the gentleman above said, they're probably redditors themselves which makes a lot of sense

[@saxerpillar5128]

They absolutely need to add more tradable rewards before this content is dead on arrival (commenting for algo)

[@cyberrite3338]

Needed to say from the start it wasn’t meant to be inferno cape equivalent mage cape and this would have been a non-issue. So sad

[@S1gmaFreud]

Thanks for the update Ellen

[@GnomonkeyRS]

yw babe

[@LOVESPACEDREAMS]

I cant unsee it, time to unsub

[@smitty683]

Bro I make this comment on stream and get a ban. Shows up on a YT comment and is ok.

[@Yltimate_]

​@smitty683 you're shadow banned😊

[@PokeAlb]

Lmfao

[@calvinnguyen1870]

I once heard someone say “gamers are good at identifying problems but terrible at suggesting solutions,” and that has remained true throughout this entire debacle.

[@Ralangorf]

Close. Maro meant they're good at saying there's a problem. They don't even know what the problem is but they know they have one. And responding to them as if they've identified the problem is the design trap he was warning people about.

[@millbunse4537]

Suggest a solution for content that hasn't been released? Chill the hell out. Identifying the problems is good enough at this stage.

[@sagebauer1077]

The quote you're thinking of is from Mark Rosewater, longtime lead designer of magic the gatheting

[@Loktark1508]

Yeah they identified the problem of a Tradeable cape being part of the progression, but making it untradeable instead of moving the upgrade item to occult or something is just not the solution.

[@StrateKraken]

Untradable cape + no more thrall shard drop makes me feel like they’re going to waste dev time making this cool content that people will do one time for cape then never again :(

[@Ironsilo]

It seems pretty obvious that the main moneymaking draw is now not the cape and must be made elsewhere. Let's wait and see what the other loot is before we freak out.

[@andyog8252]

Reminds me of dt2 bosses feeling so dry in drops because they removed drops (new prayers) before they released it

[@troytrick3325]

Cape not being a guaranteed drop is stupid that's like if quiver and infernal cape weren't guaranteed

[@SaniOsrs]

@@troytrick3325 They literally say in the blog it's nothing like colo or inferno though that's the point lol. It's like if they made the rancour amulet untradeable and guaranteed from killing araxxor 10x in one instance

[@troytrick3325]

@@SaniOsrs um cape and rancor are on different planes bud.... I think they'll make it like vorkath head tbh like guaranteed in 1/50 kills

[@DelicateSteveFox]

Watch them the keep the drop table they had in mind for when the cape was tradeable. You'll get 20 steel kiteshield and you WILL fucking like it.

[@commiedoge747]

Can they put PNM drop table on there too? 15 bass isn't gunna inflate gp/hr too bad right?

[@haxalicious]

Please no Mod Arcane drop table

[@DelicateSteveFox]

@@commiedoge747 they heard our complaints and admitted the droptables need some tuning. The bass wil now be dropped noted.

[@ozzy.8413]

Players have been wanting an enrage boss in this game, and jagex originally advertised this boss as an enrage boss. With this new blog, they completely gutted that idea. Now it's just a boss that you do until you get the boots and cape, and after that there is no incentive to push to the higher difficult levels after that. They just completely abandoned that enrage idea.

[@SimpAndy]

they gutted enrage by making a cape slot item untradeable like it should be? ADD NEW ITEMS TO IT THEN

[@waypastthenorm8629]

Man im with you this post felt so passive aggressive and jaded. It feels like they didnt actually listen to what people were saying they just saw all the negative opinions and dug in their heels for some stuff and for the rest said "fine you get nothing"

[@astrosurfer]

They practically never admit to their own mistakes when responding to feedback, especially when the mistake is that they failed to communicate effectively. The varlamore agility course comes to mind immediately: they polled it as giving more amylase/hr than rooftops, on release it gave significantly less than rooftops, players complained that it wasn't released as polled, and the next update blog includes "We heard some of you expected a more generous Amylase gain from the course".

[@guusgeluk3693]

@@astrosurfer it's been like this for a while now and at the same time they pride themself on good communication with the community.

[@TheChristopherMan]

Just make the cape tradable and make there an ornament kit for x amount of enrages maybe. That way those who want the cape can buy it and those who want the prestige of showing they earned it can have that too. Win win.

[@commiedoge747]

Waaaaaaay too logical, how about we make the kit tradeable and the cape untraceable, after two hundred completions you can delete one potion from the game

[@TheChristopherMan]

@ honestly just scrap the boss altogether and give us echo giant mole.

[@Thund_rStruck]

@@TheChristopherMan Pretty sure this person was joking.

[@SimpAndy]

mains in so much shamble that the SINGLE untradeable slot we have left is staying untradeable. like holy fuck just do the content. if you cant do it wear your cheese cape or MA2 cape or Avas assembler. its literally the only slot left that cant just be credit-carded.

[@BalerionRS]

@@SimpAndy You're a special type of stupid because you seem to think the issue is that people want to buy their way into the upgrade and that's inherently something bad. News flash buddy, that's how the game has always operated. You play in an open and free market. The higher your skill ceiling, the tougher content you can do and the better loot you can unlock. Low skill? Enjoy fishing for a billion hours to buy the upgrade you want. Sick of fishing? Build skill and go do content. You're clearly a deranged ironman purist... "LiKE HoLY FuCK jUST dO tHE CoNTenT"... you know the one thing that will completely kill the content? Making it a one-and-done for mains and giving them no reason to go back after getting the unlock(s) they want because there is no cosmetic or monetary value in doing it.

[@MitchDDad]

“ hey guys, so here’s a million reasons why the cape should be tradable and taking all of that into mind we’ve decided to make it untradable”

[@breadstix7618]

how did they manage to take a really solid update and remove 75% of the cool stuff from it lmao

[@guusgeluk3693]

just jagex being jagex

[@clancamper]

Reddit has done irreparable damage to the game

[@SaniOsrs]

Reddit and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race

[@troytrick3325]

It's not reddit it's that sad boys who play the game who cry on reddit more than play the game

[@aaronb3225]

Reddit is hyper obsessed with noobs as if you don't spend 80% of your time on an account at the end game

[@QT-Sei]

@@troytrick3325 Yeah this, they're 1200 total andies who stopped playing 8+ years ago but still cry about it on reddit because they're too fat to stand up and get away from their computers.

[@andrewsharif6017]

@@SaniOsrs100% correct. Reddit is a gremlin incel watering hole

[@ricoratso]

Making it untradeable AND a guaranteed drop at delve 8 worries me because now, presumably, delve 8 isn’t going to be that hard? No thrall upgrade is also deranged, they could’ve just thought more lol. If untradeable cape could be destroyed for X amount of the thrall tokens would have been so much better.

[@RentaEric]

Yeah I was wondering what the solution to having multiple untradable capes would be.

[@anonymoususer7539]

Why would it becoming untradeable lead you to believe delve 8 will be easier? I thought the opposite, I think they make it a little harder now so it's more of an achievement to have the cape

[@thefallencog]

Delve 8 will probably be hard. That just means the thrall upgrade within the boss encounter will just be that broken

[@thefallencog]

@@anonymoususer7539 Guaranteed drop usually means easier content so everyone can get the drop. Especially since reddit is the ones dictating how this boss is being balanced (so far)

[@straight2thepoint790]

Ohhh if you thought delve 8 wasent gonna be that hard before this change. now that its untradable you know in your nuts its gonna be drastically overtuned to make it like inferno. You can basically guarantee pink clays gonna be doing a sausage dance in the corner at the news over how much money hes about to make.

[@Hedron_Archmage]

Yay Inferno 3.0 but worse! Back to only grinding Nex for all eternity :despair:

[@garrettbar2212]

life as a main

[@tsui1024]

jagex needs to grow a spine and tell redditards no when it comes to shitty ideas. First rancour, now the cape

[@djdefinite1634]

You forget where Jagex is located. They’re birthed as cowards😂

[@allah1peygamber2kanye3]

​@@djdefinite1634im pretty sure they are UK based not french...

[@nezantra]

They invited it with the poll system. They cannot decide if they are in charge of the development of their game, or if the players have a responsibility to make at least some of their decisions for them.

[@nooneizded420]

Lol, your average redditor can barely even pvm and is scared to step foot in the wildy with rag gear to kill bosses. Certain polls should be locked behind boss kc/total level.

[@commiedoge747]

​@@nezantra they're in-charge of the game, and put polls to community vote to make us feel like we are contributing

[@Sonyaxoxo]

ngl the major backpeddle on the updates reward structure is concerning, that looks like they have less faith and vision or perhaps intimidated by reddit (lol) bc inititally looked so promising and now i'm like oh cool another piece of content i have no reason to interact with after getting my bis erm what i meant i hope mokha is cute and i can kiss the demon on the lips

[@Mostly_Salt]

It’s the discord, the people in there are the biggest reasons for the changes observed in the blog. Reddit actually seems a little peeved about the new changes and same with Twitter. The discord is just completely missing though. Insane that they aren’t looking at the actual HLC and overlooking ideas thrown out. Removing tradability of the cape and a thrall currency is such a fat L

[@ResRes321]

This. You think Reddit is bad? The discord is an absolute fucking cesspool of shitter 1500 total iron Andy’s. It’s honestly nuts.

[@jeandeasd]

they just nuked at least 60% of profitability from the boss and half my reason to go there as broke main, gz redittors

[@ssj1260]

This shows the people on reddit were pushing their agendas, but you are also pushing yours. You only want it tradeable because YOU are a "broken main" as you say. Everybody is biased to what fits their playstyle.

[@jeandeasd]

@@ssj1260 I mean getting gp is a form of progression and youre trying to invalidate that... of course i still want the cape and the boots but do i have any incentive to keep doing the boss after that? do you think previous bosses iterations were "fun" and if so for how long? this itches the game vitality and longevity as a whole and cape prestige is a short term solution to a long term dead content, this is not subjective.

[@Vetionarian]

how tf are you a broke main in 2025? Gp is literally never been easier to get.

[@TearThatRedFlagDown]

@@ssj1260 Why doom this to being dead content as there is no reason to engage with it past getting the cape and the fact that there are no real drops you'll be chasing there is also no point in going past delve 8, even though the whole point of this boss is risk vs reward where the deeper you go, the better your loot. Completely antithetical to the mechanics that this boss is designed around, concept ruined because crusty Redditors decided to cry over it.

[@prodlom]

@@ssj1260 it being tradeable benefits everyone doing the content for the entirety of its existence. the ONLY reason to make untradeable is to flex on the noobs. thats it. its ego

[@RequiemOfSolo]

I'm old, and every single time I have watched a game that I loved begin to cater to Reddit, the game becomes soulless, unfun, and effectively dead and forgettable. Without fail. Every single time.

[@bashramc81]

I hate reddit so much, i posted about the veil being tradeable and weak was a good stepping stone and i got downvoted to oblivion, reddit begged for this to be a mage infernal cape and now its a shitty version :/

[@WesleyFlippin]

Reddit very rarely has good takes anymore and if they're good, they're in the comments thread of a development post most of the time they're floating between the +100 upvotes and -100 Downvotes.

[@BloodReaper95]

Just drop the cape entirely and make an actual mage inferno content. Bring an upgrade to the occult and tormented bracelet.

[@dankdavies]

@@WesleyFlippin unfortunately the ironmeme reddit community controls the path of the game

[@TheVastoLordes]

Edit: thanks for the gold, kind stranger! The narwhal bacons at midnight!!!! XDDD

[@Thund_rStruck]

@@BloodReaper95 Occult necklace already got nerfed for being too powerful with the update they did for magic armor, so this is an awful idea. Plus the tormented bracelet is already strong enough; the last thing I think any end game player wants to see is the Tumeken's Shadow (or any mega weapon really) drop in value because of a ridiculously overpowered piece of gear (or for that weapon to increase in price by an abnormal amount).

[@lordarafa9296]

They GUTTED this boss. I think the cape needs to be tradable but maintain the other changes they made. It was just underwhelming before. They should add like a new fourth demon thrall that requires the quest, and the tradable material from the delve boss. Its sticking point is that its damage is typeless. They can buff the other thralls with the kourend quest later.

[@clave7203]

I think Jagex didn’t need to make these changes yet, instead opting to explain their situation better in another blog post and THEN garner the feedback. Communicating that the cape upgrade was a stepping stone between the veil and the eventual “mage inferno” cape, if that is the reality, would have helped some.

[@Forged4War206]

They probably felt like they had to do something because Reddit had an absolute meltdown over the cape being tradeable with multiple highly upvoted threads in less than 24 hours. Ironically, now you’ll probably see the same thing except for making the cape tradeable again because Reddit now realized they fucked up.

[@astrosurfer]

Yep, they haven't updated the part of the blog talking about the cape so you can still read the original text. There's no indication at all that the veil was only intended to be BIS for a short period of time until Mage Arena 3: Infernal Boogaloo or whatever.

[@josebarahona3305]

I love watching your point of views towards this type of updates, keep it going!

[@InfamousTanks]

Most players: awesome content were hyped! Jagex: let's make this bad instead

[@carameljesus4071]

*Reddit: let's make this bad instead

[@nathannwk18]

100% agree with you. Non tradeable cape was whatever… the boot thread to combine them should be just for the orbs, not the boots themselves. Think this would make the peg orbs actually worth something, should also increase the stats on them a little more.

[@heatwave115]

They need to add more tradables. Or this shit is dead.

[@DeadlyEnough]

"Since The Doom isn't like the Inferno or the Mage Arena, with a defined end goal and accompanying reward, [...] yadda yadda, eat shit for breakfast, it is the Inferno pt. 3" - Jagex

[@celebratecrypto3693]

I am convinced jagex is making new content changes like this just to grief gnomonkey and see his reaction videos lol

[@GnomonkeyRS]

I just want to enjoy my day off man LOL

[@Howlet01]

This needs to be a learning experience for Jagex. We’re not children, even if we act like it sometimes, communicate design intent clearly, otherwise we’re going to apply our own interpretations of their design intent and it will wildly inflate our expectations with no understanding.

[@pqr2673]

I actually hate how jagex just bends the knee to reddit every single time

[@sunnyc1732]

100% agree with you. Absolute opposite of "settle down, relax buddy". we need JUSTICE FOR GNOMONKEY

[@jones877]

Slop of compromise, call this quest recipe for disaster 2

[@Zairin.]

that thrall upgrade seems like they found one particular redditor absolutely bawling their eyes out over the change and jagex was like "yep, one person's crying is enough to convince us" lol but honestly, if the demonic sigil thing was imbued into a regular mage arena cape, becoming untradable, but the demonic sigil was tradeable, that would be fine. sitting below mage arena 2's cape. maybe allow the sigil to be deconstructed into the currency so it stays relevant as far as a drop for either the bit of GP its worth, or the currency for thralls.

[@kylejoly577]

Just get rid of polls + player feedback. Average poll voter is braindead and will quit before they can even face the content they are voting on.

[@bailusmango]

It would be kinda sick if the boss dropped the new boots, but you insert the 3 cerb crystals into them to get the stats like a thanos infinity gauntlet. then with all 3 crystals get a tiny extra +1 buff to ranged str and melee str would be cool

[@elliottxanter2324]

Making the cape untradeable for no reason at all outside of crybabies on reddit is super weak. Feels utterly spineless from Jagex; they outright acknowledge that making the cape untradeable is the wrong move for the game, but they'll do it anyway to appease glue eaters. Doesn't the game matter more than the glue eaters??

[@nooux1966]

At this point the games updates are literally controlled by the bankstanding casuals of Reddit, this is a joke. Can we get some devs with an actual spine to just tell these creatures that their points are irrelevant. Another thing, when is the last time Jagex had an original idea that wasn't inspired from a player? Like please, we're steering the game and not even getting paid for it, lmfao.

[@hem9483]

redditors are... bad. they often attribute frustrations to the wrong portions of a game's design. path of exile 2 is having a hell of a time with redditors complaining about the magicfind stat in their game, item rarity. no matter the game, lower half of the knowledge bellcurve players are always loudly incorrect. what i mean is the actual pain point in this example is the fact that melee builds have a harder time eating the opportunity cost of investing heavily into the item rarity stat, rather than rarity being a problem in itself seems like the frustration point is with maybe with magic gearing in general, rather than this specific upgrade? maybe theyll buff the generic droptable to supplement the lost gp from the unique being untradeable? but spamming alchables/dense banked xp drops is inflationary pressure, during a period of pretty prominent gp inflation. they gonna need to thread the needle with this one

[@mcad___]

I generally agree with your point but magic find in PoE2 is not a good example, it is genuinely a problematic stat, the best PoE player in the world agrees, in fact most high level players all agree that MF is far too important.

[@hem9483]

@mcad___ no man, they really don't. rarity exists primarily so that ssf (ironman, for any scapers reading this tangent) players arent totally unable to grab build enabling uniques. rarity is not a problematic stat, and i don't feel like having this discussion on a post about a different game. there are two camps of anti-magicfind players. noobs who get jealous that other players have more stuff than them, and people who cite that inflation causes items to become unpurchaseably expensive for them. both are a skill issue, both are part of the knowledge gap that divides good players from bad ones. rarity is not the boogeyman, you just need to adjust to the market. post your poe1 account name and hours played if you really think magicfind is somehow unhealthy for an arpg though.

[@JohnFromAccounting]

Listening to reddit is always wrong because it’s a niche community who have a minority opinion. They should not be holding content hostage to satisfy their weird Ironman fetish.

[@hem9483]

@@JohnFromAccounting planning content around both is healthy for the game though, I think. thinking about Ironman leads to useful item (and therefore gold) sinks into the game giants foundry, for instance. they made it relevant to main accounts by having unilaterally useful rewards in the point shop, and made it a relevant skilling method for irons by giving them another way to use the alchables. everyone wins, but it's hard to consistently find that middle ground for jagex

[@Ralangorf]

​@@hem9483couldn't agree more. Rarity is so fundamental to an arpg the removal of it was AGAINST original dev design intent in poe1 and they again only did that years ago after listening to Reddit. At least that dev team has the balls now to just tell people they won't change it. Or to put it in a nice way " couldn't reproduce the issue. Seems fine"

[@Ironsilo]

I think there's a "legacy feeling" with the cape slot that feels more like an accomplishment. A lot of players just FEEL this way, I believe the feeling is reasonable even if it is just some abstract idea we have. I hope they make up the GP/hr elsewhere so the content is very fun and repeatable.

[@wenesse1175]

I understand that and agree to a large extent, however, Jagex explicitly calls out an eventual untradable mage upgrade with content designed around. Going back to the original idea to have the Cape be a tradable upgrade requiring the god cape could be a chance for Jagex to set a precedent for new content to add upgrades to the 2nd tier cape slot. Think of a TzHar style slayer boss dropping a tradable upgrade that attaches to the fire cape or quest boss dropping a new Ava's device upgrade. This new middle tier cape upgrade would create a really healthy place to make new content have value without completely undermining the prestige of the existing untradable cape rewards or introducing straight BIS power creep.

[@typicalnewyorker5993]

What are you saying. Do you even play the game lmao

[@straight2thepoint790]

The only cape slot item that was prestige was the fire cape. not every single cape of all styles, and types. We have just dedicated an entire equipment slot to untradables at this point.

[@ireallyshouldbedrumming]

@@straight2thepoint790 inferno, vorkath head on avas, toa 350 on avas, quiver

[@SimpAndy]

yeh people acting like the cape is NEEDING to be tradeable to keep this boss profitable are hyper focused on the wrong thing. The content doesnt give enough good rewards. thats it. not the cape. not the shitty thrall buff. Change the thrall buff to no 0's and style swapping with a consumable resource put into a trinket. maybe a new trinket slot to not clash with ammo slot too heavily.

[@sfrizzell52]

So I will say it as I said in another video, I was not huge on a thrall buff as they are already the best spells you can use at 95% of all bosses. I would like to see reasons to use multiple spell books instead of always using thralls everywhere. As of right now you only really use the ancient in bossing if you want to freeze a boss and run around it or blood spells to heal between kills and normal spells on vorkath for crumble undead. Even on bosses with mechanics that encouraged using other spellbooks such as zulrah being weak to fire or olm with the fire walls, it is better to use thralls because you can either skip the mechanics like in olm or zulrah where even with the weakness it is more dps to use thralls. It is disappointing that they just scrapped the concept all together, but I would rather have some variety in which spellbooks to use at bosses

[@austinwirtz2434]

This is actually a fair point. Thralls are already the best option at most content in the game. However, this content does need a consumable people regularly use if they want to give it longevity.

[@Rarik13]

@@austinwirtz2434 I've been thinking a similar thing to Sfrizzel but also absolutely agree with your point that this content needs some repeatable reward that encourages you to stay grinding away as long as possible. Making the cape untradeable AND the thrall upgrade replacement potentially being less globally useful is a huge hit to what could be a great boss. Hopefully what they come up with can meet a similar level of desirability.

[@austinwirtz2434]

@ Yeah hopefully they can come up with something else but I think it needs to be something that is used outside of this content as well

[@haxalicious]

I think communicating that the cape was meant to be a stepping stone and there was plans for another cape down the line would have avoided this. I know I thought it was meant to be a forever BIS and that's why I didn't like it.

[@IIxIxIv]

There better be an update to this update, threads being the only tradeable reward useful outside of the fight is just asking for the content to die.

[@XMoeiskingX]

Instead of cape please consider the below: Relos Orb of Enchantment -fully charges a powered staff and applies extra mage damage bonus & passive effect described in the blog Pros -maintains tradeable reward -introduces consumable for repeat profit -no cape conflict w/ progress

[@killinit6265]

My shadow on the iron would love this thing, but Idk if we want to make something like this.

[@XMoeiskingX]

@@killinit6265 can you expand? its same thing as the cape just removes conflict of the cape progression.

[@Thund_rStruck]

No offense, but everything has cons and I mean EVERYTHING; so what you're requesting here might have a huge impact on the game (and not in a good way). Cons Item will likely cost more than the average PvMer's equipment (which is usually Bandos, Ahrims and Armadyl / God Blessed Dragonhide). Takes up an inventory slot, and even if it doesn't; it'll probably hold up either the ammo, weapons or shield slot by the sounds of it. There's already an item called the Imbued Heart / Ancient Heart that's useful for magic; so this whole idea is just kind of unoriginal. This item might be too overpowered (hence why I said it'll likely cost more than the average PvMer's equipment) as if it's stackable with the Imbued or Ancient Hearts, this is going to cause significant power creep for magic. Even if this isn't the case, what if this item is so strong that magic equipment isn't needed anymore? You really should rethink this and come up with something better.

[@XMoeiskingX]

@ did you even read what the cape reward is or it’s stats? Cause doesn’t feel like you did. Literally doesn’t use an inventory slot it’s an imbuement to the weapon.

[@Thund_rStruck]

@ I know that, but at least when upgrading the cape, that slot is actually being occupied for something useful; this just feels like it's something that would either be too strong or not strong enough and not worth bringing. Also kinda funny how you think I'm slow when you're the one giving out THIS idea which you didn't even bother to look for any potential cons with. EVERYTHING comes with cons. Also right now, I'll prove to you I'm not a dumbass. Eldritch Veil: +20 Magic Attack, 0 Defense in all styles, and +3% Magic Damage. Eldritch Veil (Proposed New Version): Everything up above, albeit with +1 Prayer Bonus and a 2% increase to ALL magic weapons that are NOT Tumeken's Shadow.

[@guitarisdeathofme]

Never let someone tell you to calm down about something, just because they have no passion in their lives doesn’t mean you shouldn’t too

[@BrettPearson1]

Reddit will kill this game, spineless company

[@RealKajiggers]

I think they just saw they needed major work on deciding on a thrall mechanic and making it function and scrapped it, they don't go through many design iterations these days and are stricter with internal timelines. This boss really needs more though its such a shame.

[@mclovinjdt]

Stardew valley tunes poppin off in the back

[@ishykiller6827]

This take is kinda based. I wasn't a huge fan of the cape being tradable but knowing that it wasn't meant to be an inferno lvl reward makes me think tradable is fine. Also, completely ditching the thrall upgrade is a big mistake. Now I'm just going to go get my cape. Buy the boots and never go back there.

[@Nuvizzle]

I'm not really upset about the cape not being tradeable. I get that it's not the "inferno equivalent" mage cape, but, like - capes are just untradeable. Always have been. Previous mage capes didn't come from wave based minigames, but, they were still untradeable. Same for Ava's. It just feels very OSRS to keep the capes as untradeable unlocks. I do think this kills a lot of the long term potential of the content though. Jagex is seriously overestimating how much people are going to value tribrid boots.

[@zachbradas2339]

Really enjoying these longer form videos. I think you made several strong arguments, especially about thralls.

[@clownfiesta4995]

how did you calc the diabolic crush weapon to be better than emberlight? i ran it through gear scape and its not better in any place in max gear. edit: it is sometimes better on low defence with slayer helm, but thats only slayer mobs and like 0.5% better on cerb but still worse than scythe so there is that

[@alexanderdernild8708]

It should be better if not in max gear as it has a higher strength bonus on its own.

[@SaniOsrs]

Making the cape untradeable is horrible. The whole point of the boss is to camp it as level 8, now you're deincentivizing it and people will just 1nd level 8. The min hit is awesome though 1hand mage weapons need a buff. Thrall replacement is going to be way less demand since it's only used for Mocha. All in all this is supposed to be an endgame money maker if you're good enough to camp level 8 but theres legit 1 good reward, it's gonna be bad money. You're cooking here this is TERRIBLE as is.

[@reaper10142]

lol they gotta add another rare to the drop table now

[@OsrsCop]

No clue what theyre thinking its literally just a reddit reaction here... Would love jmods to take feedback from the people who are going to be grinding this and not ironmen on reddit upset the capes tradeable for some reason..

[@Borchert97]

Yeah this update almost changes my votes from yes to no, now the only thing hype about it is the boots upgrade for QoL, at least they didn’t budge on that change I guess?

[@OsrsCop]

What going to happen now is all the players that thought this was a good system are going to be complaining they removed it... I fear this will turn into a dt2 prayers situation where no good solution is made... I think the blog besides thralls was arguably the best reward blog theyve had in years. Pretty disappointed with this. Although the mage cape changes are good imo but still think its weaker than it should be.

[@JJSmeez]

I actually agree on gnome with most of this. I’m okay with the cape being tradable if an actual inferno-type magic cape upgrade is implemented beyond this. They should at the very least add some uniques to make it rewarding for the community.

[@FrostyOsrs]

Jagex really good at releasing dead content these days lol

[@mika_fernandes]

I pray they push back this update for longer, because holy fuck what a mess. Even most posts on the reddit thread are shitting on it.

[@lunarycast]

"we dont want this to be the mage inferno so we've made it the mage inferno but you only fight zuk 8 times 🔥🔥🔥"

[@Colossus_DB]

What if the buffed thrall just gave the player a small damage increase when attacking the same target as the thrall or just a damage debuff to whatever target the thrall was attacking? Has that been suggested? Would that be good?

[@The18avp]

Literally could just be an amulet upgrade like the rancour. The drop itself is untradeable, but you combine it with the occult and thats then tradeable. Stat increases can be the exact same, then they have room for inferno type content for a mage cape upgrade in the future.

[@Rom3TV]

Honestly I gotta say I'm a bit disappointed with the cape becoming untradable, I feel like mage arena 1 capes are borderline useless and the imbued ones were the mid game option, for when you get into bossing and such. I felt like this would be the stepping stone up from there, sort of like assembler before the bis cape being quiver? And we'd get to use this to make the boss more profitable and thus have more incentive to be ran. I'm sure it'll stay relevant since the boots are probably going to be bis for a few years at least, but still, seems underwhelming. I don't know what made Jagex change their minds, I checked the polls on the wiki but I didn't see anything repolled so I hope it wasn't just people spamming them.

[@Karpnado]

It's true, I remember when the community was collectively saying "yeah this is cool and all but what if it was scrapped entirely? Now THAT is some content". It was everywhere. But for real, what?

[@potentialspam187]

So this cape not being inferno level and being tradeable is fine with me. But is it going to be better than ma2 capes?

[@Aleckxszandre]

Arch-Glacor and Zamorak are such fun fights in RS3, and it's almost completely thanks to the enrage system. It's just such a perfect system for balancing skill expression and reward potential. With the right setups, you can literally afk low enrage AG, while high enrages can be genuinely challenging. And the rewards reflect the amount of effort you put into it. I was super excited to see them play with that system so we can get bosses with it in OSRS. Idk I like colo and inferno well enough as a learning experience in the game, but I just want something different, man. I feel like they should at least poll some of these decisions before insta-backpedaling. Reddit is such a small portion of the community while still being a huge echo chamber. I play a regular iron exclusively and I'd 100% vote yes on the cape being tradeable.

[@ALittleMessi]

The thing here is we need to separate the rewards issues from the boss design issues. They can have a really cool enrage boss, but clearly they can't figure out a sustainable loot table that makes everyone happy. If they had led with the cape reasoning in the first post, or just not made it a cape upgrade, most of this wouldn't happen. It's not like this boss or any enraged boss needs to be a cape upgrade. Have it be cool boots, a weapon, and a thrall thing.

[@XXgargantuarXX]

one of my favorite bosses in RS3 when i played was arch-glacor because it allows anyone to do it. Want better uniques? do more enrage. Is new at the game/don't have too much gear? do less enrage but still has a chance of uniques. Removing the chance to get the cape below delve 8 just makes people who aren't insane at the game impossibilitated to get a cape and frustrated if they can't get to higher delves. If they still make it untradeable i'd love for it being something like: delve 5 = 1/500, delve 6 = 1/200, delve 7 = 1/50 and delve 8 guaranteed. This way people who can't still grasp Delve 8 at least have a chance of getting it

[@joeallison6581]

I love that redditors that struggle with Duke moan about content they're not gonna do. Yawn

[@andrewcalderwood2693]

I'm a simple guy, I hear Stardew Valley music, I click thumbs up.

[@GnomonkeyRS]

I'm glad, I almost picked DOOM music, because this update is fuckin DOOMED

[@b3ast226]

The casual voice will scream until they get what they want and then wonder why their game dies, and move on to the next project to destroy

[@deviouschimp4663]

The new weapon is gonna be mid-game scythe to use against large monsters. Them stating the weapon only makes sense with slash is a clear indicator of this. Especially with how focused they are of filling those gear gaps for both niche and bis gear.

[@jordenker7592]

So you need ma2 still? If not then that is a good push because you should not always go into the wild if you want end game stuff. But it would be good to have the option on both ends

[@Solomon-t9v]

Boots: I agree they are great. I actually wouldn't hate if it just required the crystals as this will prevent the attachment from being trash price like the peg crystal is due to bottleneck. Cape: I like the buffs and I do not like making it untradeable. I like that it does not attach to mage arena. Thralls: Gave up too soon. I think enhancing thrall attacks was the best idea and made it more interactive. Rest: don't care it looks fine.

[@fabiopauli420]

6:50 even as a cape defender that one is mindboggling. I saw noone complain about that at all.

[@bigfatlongone5038]

Can someone explain to me why Reddit feedback is weighed so heavily?

[@rappuhn]

My thought for the thrall upgrade, so they could tie it to your specs so every time you spec the thrall also performs a spec which then uses a charge. And the spec could either just be higher damage or maybe tied to what kind of spec you perform, if yours does defense reduction then it does some defense reduction as well, could just code it to mimic your spec but a fraction of the max hit obviously. Or instead of it being tied to your own spec it could randomly perform a spec of some type.

[@austinwirtz2434]

Can’t wait to buy the boots in GE, get the cape and then never think about this content again. If they want thrall upgrades associated with the quest line that’s fine but they really do need a consumable to give this longevity.

[@TheL0rd0fSpace]

I was on team "untradeable cape", but even I agree that cutting the Thrall upgrade is ridiculous. Especially when gear upgrades have so often been "disjointed" flavor wise with where they come from. Like Muspah isn't famous for his "ranged aoe" ability, but he still drops an aoe ranged weapon without issue. Thermy isn't famous for his magic prowess, but he dropped the single best piece of non-weapon mage gear. As far as verisimilitude, gear needs to make sense for the boss it drops from, and the gear should make sense for the purpose it serves, but the boss it drops from doesn't have to make sense with the purpose it serves. It's cool when it works out that way (like Zulrah dropping the venom-immune helmet), but it doesn't *have* to.

[@neetyomian9929]

They watched Behemoth daily ep and were like OMG no our streamers say this should be walked back, we must do so!

[@feathers7442]

Jagex needs to just poll their ideas first before changing the whole content because of reddit. The content has changed like 3 times already without even being polled to the actual masses of the game seeing what EVERYONE wants. Instead 3 reddit posts and 10 upvoted comments get to decide.

[@CILINKY]

I would've gained a lot more respect for Jagex if they stood their ground on the new cape like they did for the new boots. I think putting out the additional info that the Eldritch Veil is a stepping stone cape upgrade until a mage inferno/colosseum equivalent comes out would of calmed Reddit. I wouldn't hold it against Jagex if they changed their mind again and made it tradeable for the sake of preserving this new content and not being dead on arrival

[@beastking4373]

I honestly think they will revisit the thrall upgrade in future content with the same type of loot mechanics. I feel like at the moment they threw the idea out because they bit off more than they could chew and after seeing peoples responses didn’t want to release a version of it that everyone didnt like or couldnt agree on what affect the thralls should have. theyre probably gonna take a bit of time to simmer on the feedback and think of something else, hopefully they will still implement it with the same loot system they have for this boss

[@PowerUpBeyond]

really hope Jagex watches this video all the way through and listen to what is being said.

[@christophercolumbus2387]

Considering they said "The Eldritch Veil was never intended to be an Inferno or Magic Cape", this cape is now pretty insane. If it rolls from 2 to maxhit instead of 2,2,2 to max hit its close to 5% in cox 7 way. It gets to pretty insane numbers the lower the max hit Does this now mean we wont ever be getting a mage inferno?

[@AHomlesspuppy]

So crazy that they list so many solid reasons for it being traceable then just cave and make it in-tradeable. I hope they postpone and fix this stuff

[@COhD4]

thrall upgrades should be simple like ranger attack 1 tick faster, melee heal for damage dealt, and mage refunds prayer cost at the end of its duration. simple but clearly an upgrade in every situation. use the range for max dps where you can, mage is good for supplies like in raids, and melee also for raids or just bosses that do chip damage like duke or vardovis. what you guys think about that?

[@HeredinOSRS]

They could make alternatives to Soul Wars drops like the cape and the ectoplasmer. I'd be happy with that.

[@astrosurfer]

Bonecrusher necklace upgrade that combines it with ecto and ash sanctifier would go hard if it restored prayer from demonic ashes and spectral creatures too

[@HeredinOSRS]

@@astrosurfer That would be nice, makes re-gearing for slayer tasks easier. I've brought my bone crusher to demons 100 times. Always feels stupid when I notice.

[@standjob9161]

Cape being untradeable or tradeable is really not that big of a deal imo, but the main issue is the rewards for this boss were kindve lackluster to begin with. Thralls aren't really dying for an upgrade either so I'm not too upset, especially since the proposed upgrade was negligible. The issue really lies in the fact this is "endgame" content without any endgame rewards and it needs at least 1 or 2 others even if cape and currency were a thing

[@zvros_641]

I started reading the news post Initially and was like sick jagex is standing up to Reddit for the first time (about the treads). Then they proceeded just just mega cave

[@Volkura]

Yeah im with you on alot of this, really feels like this was intended to be an enrage boss that just so happens to have a mage reward. Alot of people saw that and thought "mage inferno?" so now we're getting *Mage Inferno*. Which really is a shame because an erage boss really excites me in OSRS, especially from how much Telos I used to do. Wasn't super big on the thrall currency idea, but after listening to your other video i can definitely see the value something like that really adds to this kind of content. At the same time though it kinda feels like thralls as a whole need a re-evaluation and touch up. The cloak, just why? It doesn't NEED to be untradeable just cause other capes are, hell it was even stated this wasn't entirely THE next mage cape. More just a side-grade kinda cape with slightly (barely if any really) DPS increase, and negatives to prayer/defence. Honestly fair trade I'd say. If it really was an issue with people to keep it untradeable for the "Status" why not go with, it's tradable but can't be worn unless you have a level 8 clear? Or crazy idea, keep it tradable with the negative prayer and stuff. But if you've done clear 8 you can "bless it" or take it somewhere or to a new NPC to prove your a strong fighter, which removes the negative prayer, gives it a fancy trim and makes it untradeable. Untying it from the mage arena capes though is a fine change as well, didn't really bother me either way, but im not gonna complain on that one. The boots are the only thing i personally was really excited for here and im glad to see they're staying as is The guard looks nice as well, i'm a cheap ironman so an offhand with bigger prayer bonus is always welcome Bottom line, it went from a cool idea to see people push the limits of the boss and themselves to, get your new cape and leave.

[@Dipwad-q8w]

Agreed, jagex needs to put on their big boy pants and make this content meaningful long term.

[@WreckedRevival]

yeah I agree dumping the thrall upgrade was a big L, they should've just buffed their DPS and had the consumable be added into the book of the dead. It's going to be dead content for irons after they get what they want and dead content for mains if it's not profitable enough and won't be without that consumable or cape being tradeable.

[@Chache1815]

I 100% agree it feels like they made it from an enraged boss to another wave based task. Like u said without a reason to push past room8 no one will… hopefully they listen to people who know what they are talking about and not Reddit which is a bunch of people who have never played the game or have never touched endgame

[@ownagemods]

Welcome to the reaction of jagex having a growing company and new owners. Updates are trying to be pushed out faster to say they can increase membership cost while the quality and attention to detail will decrease

[@AstEternal]

This is a huge disappointment. I'll be grabbing the cape on my ironman and never touching it again most likely. Very sad

[@Cameron_UIM]

I agree with their decision to pull thralls from this content. This isn't a xerician boss, so xerician magics shouldn't be modified by its loot table. That being said, I'm willing to bet they have not given up on an upgrade for thralls and instead are reserving that reward space for some zeah developments. But they do need to make sure those 'self-contained rewards' pull a LOT of weight otherwise the content is a checkbox like MA2 capes or Mage Arena. They interestingly stood their ground on a few things, and completely folded over on others. I wonder who ultimately gets to decide things like this.

[@SilverNight145]

Agreed entirely on everything minus I wanted MA2 Capes to still be required. The first part of the blog sounded so reasonable & like they knew what they wanted to do so they stuck with what they pitched. Half expected for them to continue with that momentum but disappointed now

[@Qwepzy]

Well done Jagex you just created more cape sales to 3rd parties who hate your game

[@skoodlemoose]

3:15 theres a survey at the bottom of the website that I and probably many other took, that's probably where they're getting their data from likely not reddit.

[@maybe_senpai1870]

If it wasn't about putting the fires out from the Reddit side, you explained exactly what will happen to the content in this state and it's so accurate. All of my friends are locked into ToA due to how flexible and rewarding the raid is for "PVM Boot Camp". It's the only group content I can really think of taking someone to start learning F Keys, tick timing and simply getting good at gear swaps. This had me hyped for having an area that will test the player like you said and see what level they're at with their gameplay. The fact that they were going to make money from it was even better for them to keep pushing themselves. I'm over 1.500 kc at ToA and my soul dies going there, even to help clan mates that really want to learn. I'm grateful the people I've taught over time since release of ToA have picked up the teaching for me cause that content is dead. You telling jagex to have more faith in themselves is 10/10 and i pray things change for our communities sake. Thank you being such a strong voice!