Running Windows 3.11 on Intel 13th Gen hardware. All we need: DOS 6.22 and a PCI adapter!

[@victormancini3002]

Nice! Many people don't realize that Windows 3.1 was an actual operating system with many native apps like Office, Photoshop, Premiere, Acrobat, Lotus, Borland and so on. It was heavily optimized since you could run business applications and the OS itself within 4MB or less.

[@MikeDawson1]

I've never seen anyone argue that Windows 3.1 wasn't an operating system

[@victormancini3002]

@@MikeDawson1 Well, I know some people... They insisted that Windows 3 is just another GUI for DOS like Windows 1/2, which isn't.

[@explorer9049]

In real mode 16 bit windows, the ladder is true but when windows is in 386 enhanced mode, it is much like win9x just without win32 support. But still a true OS.

[@lotharrothmann8608]

Hello, very nice works. Thanks for your work. It inspires me to try it myself to get work (very) old OS on my new hardware

[@O_mores]

TIP: Windows 3.x to Windows 9X and NT 3.51 are fine with USB mouse and keyboard emulated by BIOS. (they are reported as being PS/2) Anything that is NT and is newer won't work. If you have only one PS/2 port you need to find a solution - either get USB support or use a serial mouse. There are some Y type cables for PS/2 ports so you can use a mouse and a keyboard on a single port, but this won't work unless the motherboard has builtin support for these adapters. My motherboard only accepts a single PS/2 device.

[@MartinPaoloni]

Very cool video! Have you tried using the SBEMU driver for your onboard sound card? You might not even need that PCI card 🙂

[@O_mores]

Yes, SBEMU works* on this configuration, in DOS of course! (* only with SBEMU /00 option for headphone out via motherboard AC'97 header ) Since SBEMU is dependent on jemmex.exe Windows 3.11 won't load if it can't take over control over memory. You get this error message: "Cannot run Windows while the currently installed protected-mode software is running."(It should be possible to start Windows 3.1 in standard mode along jemmex.exe)

[@-dimar-]

This is so cool, but may not last for long. Look for article "Intel proposes x86S, a 64-bit CPU microarchitecture that does away with legacy 16-bit and 32-bit support". I hope they won't do this for the next 100 years to keep this amazing compatibility. After that, nobody will care except maybe for the 4 immortal people somewhere out there.

[@O_mores]

My guess is that in 2030 we'll still be able to find a new CPU with native 16/32 bit support and motherboards with CSM. Maybe they won't be mainstream products as they are now. I mean as of today you can still buy new motherboards with ISA slots, but they are niche products and rather expensive... Take a look at his 9th gen mobo with 2 ISA slots: www.dfi.com/product/index/1502

[@tricountyretail992]

AMD may see that as an opportunity to win over customers that have specific use cases that need legacy compatibility.

[@costelradu8023]

I bet that x86 it will be still a thing in 2050.

[@Phalanx443]

Oh, this is too funny! I love it! I will be able to rebuild the world after the apocalypse after all!! Yea!

[@MrMateczkoYT]

Do you also have the VCACHE error when trying to run 98SE on 12/13th gen Intel?

[@O_mores]

Of course I do... :) But I made some progress...In the first day when I got this motherboard I managed to get rid of the „VCACHE” error and now I have to deal with „Invalid VxD Dynamic Link call to Device Number 3, Service B” error. This error occurs also on an Intel H81-Gamer motherboard with an Intel i7-4790 CPU but on that configuration I can get rid of this error by using some patched files. Didn't made any other progress because I was involved making these videos about NT4 and Windows 3.11.

[@RETROMachines]

Interesting video. It is still possible to use Win 3.11

[@O_mores]

Yes, I love it! But it took me a while to find a working PCI sound card. I also use it in my main computer Ryzen 3900X with a Voodoo 3 PCI. kzbin.info/www/bejne/gnbFn62Gecl5Zqc

[@AnimalKingdomUK]

Please reply. I can't wait to watch more videos. Please post new video soon

[@TheRetroRaven]

Modern machines don't have a BIOS, but only the UEFI. How did you circumvent that? You mention a SATA PCI controller ? Does that have some trickery that makes it possible to boot DOS in the first place?

[@O_mores]

Usually, modern motherboards have both BIOS and UEFI. BIOS is now called "CSM" from Compatibility Support Module. When you enable CSM, BIOS will take over and PCI to SATA controllers will initialize normally. (as far as they care, there is nothing unusual about your PC) There is no trickery - just look for a motherboard with PS/2 ports - this is a sign that CSM can be enabled.

[@szyszka8303]

That is crazy!

[@O_mores]

Kinda is, and you can have fun with Windows 3.11 using your main PCI-E GPU. It can live on the same drive as Windows 10/11 but you had to wipe it out and create a FAT16 partition at the beginning of the drive, then install Windows 10/11. Or you can you a separate drive.

[@dcheverie]

So you didn't do a linux install with a dos box on top of it? My friend would be very interested.

[@O_mores]

No sir... It's actually quicker to type format C:, sys C:, restart, type setup etc. and have Windows 3.11 running in less than 5 minutes on the latest . Of course, after you previously spent a lot of time troubleshooting various errors. Check this newer video about Windows 3.11: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rITUqo2ul957rdk

[@dcheverie]

@@O_mores Awesome. Thank you. I am currently looking at trying this out with some PCIe to PCI adapters.

[@pablogonzales6194]

how do you make it work when the motherboard is uefi only?

[@oldschoolgamer8278]

Inside a VM 🤷‍♂

[@O_mores]

You can't pull this out on UEFI only systems, fortunately 90% of consumer motherboards are hybrid: UEFI and Legacy. This ratio will decrease, but 5 or 10 years from now you'll still be able to find a motherboard with Legacy BIOS.

[@IkarusKommt]

I wish people stopped calling Windows for Workgroups "Windows 3.1". Those are very different OSes.

[@Alexzander88]

Windows 3.1 was a big step from Windows 3.0 launched in 1990. 3.11 is just a minor change. `For Workgroups` addon only concerns networking doesn't change the OS or the compatibility with hardware in any way.

[@IkarusKommt]

@@Alexzander88It is a completely different kernel, for starters.

[@O_mores]

I get where you're coming from! Technically, Windows for Workgroups (WfW) and Windows 3.1 are very similar in many respects since they share the same base OS and kernel. WfW is essentially an enhanced version of Windows 3.1 with built-in networking features, like file and printer sharing, and support for networking protocols (such as TCP/IP in later versions). So while they aren't exactly the same, they aren't completely different either. WfW is more of an upgrade to 3.1, with the core functionality largely intact, but with those added networking capabilities

[@semicuriosity257]

Windows 3.1 has PC Speaker driver.

[@O_mores]

Oh, yeah! I used this option in the past, but it's limited to .wav sounds, and it works mostly with Windows interface.

[@Henk717]

This video makes me so annoying that my PC's current hardware will flatout refuse to post if I turn CSM on, I simply can not try this myself anymore. Removing the GPU that causes that would not be worth it for the experiment, I bet I could get this to run on MS-Dos 7.1 but i'd likely have to find a different solution for the sata to ide adapter thing.

[@O_mores]

What GPU are you using? Maybe consider using another video card and make it primary video card for DOS/Windows 9X purposes and your main GPU will activate only in Windows 10/11. Don't forget that now SBEMU is out now, and it works on this configuration!!! If you didn't hear about SBEMU... now you can get sound in DOS using the onboard CODEC.

[@Henk717]

@@O_mores My M40 datacenter GPU is the issue, it can only post if Above 4G Encoding and PCI 2.0 are enabled. If you turn on CSM those features become unavailable and then its done with my PC until I manually physically remove that GPU, change the settings back and then I can install it again. Sitting right next to that AI capable machine is my 2005 retro PC that runs every OS that I want including Windows 3.11. So I am not missing out on anything in that regard, but it would have been fun to try if it would not involve opening my case.

[@GordenMalcom]

I got the VIA6212L USB package today. It works on Windows 11 but is not working on Windows 2000. What should I do?

[@O_mores]

Hmm, it must work on Windows 2000, I have the exact same chip and it works for me. Right now I have the PCI-E version which basically your card with a PCI-E to PCI bridge chip soldered on it. But I used in the past the PCI version + PCI-E to PCI adapter. I know for sure that this chip even works in Windows 98 with the default drivers. What behavior has in Windows 2K? Also you might want to try the original Windows 2K with no service packs, the SP4 will recognize this card as USB 2.0, while the original as USB 1.1.

[@GordenMalcom]

@@O_mores can you give win2k with driver installed because it pops to install

[@GordenMalcom]

@@O_mores Windows 2000 does recognize the hardware, but I need to press 'Next' to finish the setup. However, my mouse and keyboard do not work, which is why I'm asking for help. Please install the official VIA6212L USB drivers for Windows 2000 with UniATA and send them to me. Please.

[@O_mores]

You can try this method, use the startup folder to begin automatically VIA driver installation, check this link on how to start a silent install: www.itninja.com/blog/view/installshield-setup-silent-installation-switches

[@GordenMalcom]

@@O_mores Sorry I don't understand

[@glasslakes]

The sound at 1:15 was very very sudden and annoying.

[@O_mores]

Sorry, somehow this sound escaped the „Audio normalize” procedure which was done in Davinci. I did edit the video using youtube editor, now it's gone.

[@boggy7665]

Should shorten the wait for restarts after the frequent crashes. Seriously, why would you want to run Windows 3.11? I get it, some obsolete software, but what hasn't been done better for later versions of Windows?

[@O_mores]

You obviously don't get it... Everyone has different motivations... Installing Windows 3.11 is just for fun. There are some particular cases where it actually make sense to run an old OSes on new hardware, like some industrial applications. In my case, since Windows 3.11 can run on the same hardware as Windows 11 on my main computer - I like to have it on a separate SSD and once a week maybe more I like boot in Windows 3.11 instead of Windows 11, it's like a time travel...

[@SM-sk1sm]

Its called cooperative unmultitasking ,and no realtime. this is proof. That you dont know what you are talking about..adding cache doesnt make it so, and no it didnt have that many programs. I was around then.

[@O_mores]

"Cooperative multitasking" in older OS like Windows 3.1 means that programs must voluntarily give up control of the CPU to allow other programs to run. Unlike modern systems, where the OS manages multitasking by force, in cooperative multitasking, one program could slow down or freeze the whole system if it doesn’t release control properly.

[@SM-sk1sm]

wrong, read above, u either have true realtime multitasking or u dont. You, cant have one without the other, and most certaintly cant manage it. Cooperatitive..look at the word.. Dah. I will wait for u to finish ie close then I will go. Thats Not Multitasking thats just word salad.Then you Dont Manage Multitaskin.Thats like saying Im going to manage the Sun. Rofl. Furtmore., they had to dumb down the Amiga to make the pc=mac look better, and still to this day pc=mac have yet to catch up to the Classic Amiga in terms of power or True Real time Multitasking, not even the A1000. To many Lies. Try, adding 250 mix ,and Match RISCs to your systems.. When, you can ....oh yeah..then it will be A Amiga clone. Thanks, to me open Source Amiga Now you Have A Chance. HERE ENDTH THE LESSON