S&S Cycle - Installing The S&S TC3 Oil Pump and Cam Plate

[@1Dcorace]

I've been running these for a couple of years. My hot idle oil pressure went from 2 psi stock to 16 psi. I don't run crap citgo/harley 50w oil. I run Valvoline Premium Blue, 15-40w, truck oil. I can't say I saw any difference in scavenging. The breathers off of the rocker boxes still slobbered oil into my intake. I'm not saying that's an S&S problem. I took the crank case vent right to the ground, just like the old days. I am very pleased with this upgrade.

[@guyconnell2250]

Comment on the wrong video did ya?

[@eb1941]

Great video, easy to understand and instructional. It would be a great help to see such a video for earlier models (1999- 2006 (non-Dyna)). I have 2003 RK and want to understand my options. Thanks

[@joerectifier]

This video is helpful as I am getting ready to perform surgery on Merlin - my '01 fxsti - installing the S&S hydro tensioners, plate, cams, tappets and rods. very excited to see how it runs once he is all stitched back up. Super excited

[@mikeadams5432]

I got complete top end this year! 98" and 89cc heads! Whooo

[@bodeine454]

How did it turn out?

[@mikeadams5432]

@@bodeine454 perfect. Never skips a beat. Starts everytime. Woke it right up. Rockers are a little noisy. But def way more bike!

[@vincentmcclain6642]

My 96 ci. roadglide custom broke the crank bearing at 26000 mi in the drive way took motor out sent the bottom End to Darkhorse for a complete blueprint and balance , welded crank, Timkin bearing, new rods 2000.00 for all Stacked a 107 on top, super smooth runs great best money I have spent totally new bike

[@liamstandish878]

i agree..

[@johnkolinoff8591]

Kenneth Wise. Yep RIGHT on I think they thought twin cams sounded cool. it's real cool alright sends you right to the bank for some cash!!

[@JoseluisRodriguez-zy7zw]

Saludos desde México distrito federal.gracias por estos videos

[@mikeadams5432]

I just installed my s&s oil pump and s&s cam plate today. My father and i mainly used this video. Thank you for being so helpful. And thorough. I love my new parts and was very excited to get my 510c kit.next is lifters and quickee push rods. Just curious if you have a new video for setting push rods?

[@SSCycleInc]

We don't currently have a push rod video but we'll definitely look at making one!

[@mikeadams5432]

Love s&s products. My father is still riding around with s&s products on his shovelhead.

[@mikeadams5432]

Winter after that. Complete s&s top end 89cc heads. 583 easy start cams now. 98" jugs! Was riding it today.

[@lewisbrodnax2682]

Your going to need clothespins. The old wooden ones. With springs to hold the cover tubes up+ out of the way while being adjusted... ( Set for lash) L. BX

[@wooddawg4868]

When i opened my cam case I went with gear cams and called it a day.

[@grimeyhonkyracing3938]

Did you check your pinion shaft run out?

[@rv16ad]

thanks will work out issue b4 final assembly. cheers

[@kacowboy]

What is the max pinion shaft run ou for the pump and plate. My shaft is at .003 which is to much for some other oil pumps and plates.

[@lukepace8546]

Should I upgrade the oil pump and cam plate when I install the S&S 551 cams in my 2012 FLHTK 103 Twin Cam? The bike has 15,000 miles on it. I will at a minimum be installing the cam kit, Quickie pushrods/kit, tappets, and hydraulic chain tensioners. Thanks and keep the great videos coming.

[@SSCycleInc]

If you're already in the cam chest, we would recommend upgrading (if you can) - our oil pump has increased scavenging and flow, and will provide more reliability for you.

[@lukepace8546]

S&S Cycle, Inc Thanks for the reply, I'll take your recommendation and purchase the entire cam chest kit probably with gear drive.

[@SSCycleInc]

You'll want to check your pinion shaft runout first to be sure you're within specs to switch to gear drive - the tolerances are a lot tighter than with chain driven.

[@scottliegel855]

with the new S,S support plate are the new bearings already pressed into it? actually on any new support plate whether it be S&S or Screamin Eagle, Thanks

[@SSCycleInc]

All bushings are pressed in, but the early style plate that uses bearings on the outboard end of the cams, does not come with bearings. The bearings are included in the S&S cam installation kit, which is part of an S&S Cam kit, or can be purchased separately.

[@taiwanreef]

what about 2003 twin cam 88? do the cams need to go in cam chest plate by using a shop press?or install like the ones in this video?

[@SSCycleInc]

Same as video with our plate

[@markwissman2452]

So if I get the geroters mixed up, is there a way to tell which side is front and which side is back? Or are they reversible? Obviously the thinner set is the outside set but are the other 2 interchangeable?

[@SSCycleInc]

here are three rotor sets. The outside rotor, closest to the camplate is the feed rotor. It is reversible and is the thinnest set. The next two sets are the scavenge rotors and they are the same size. The inner gear of one has a relief cut in it. That relief cut has to be facing in towards the back of the camchest. The middle rotor is reversible. You can download the instruction sheet here: assetcloud.roccommerce.net/files/_sscycle/3/2/10/510-0347_tc3_oil_pump_20150528.pdf

[@wb4514]

Bruce, I have a 2000 RK TC 88. I'm planning to upgrade to the S&S 510C Kit. Can you tell me why a new cam chain is not included ? From the way I understand it, the rough edges on the stock chain is what causes the wear on the tensioner. Does S&S make, or sell a new roller chain for the 510C ? Thanks You.

[@SSCycleInc]

We do not make a replacement chain. Our Hydraulic cam chain tensioner a thicker shoe for longer life, a larger piston for more even pressure and ware, and direct chain oiling to extend the chain life. Combined the shoe can stand up to the pressure applied by the chain in a way that the stock tensioner can not.

[@wb4514]

@@SSCycleInc I’ve decided on the 509C Cam plate kit. Can you provide me with the p/n for your tensioner kit ? Do I just use my stock chain and timing gears ?

[@SSCycleInc]

@@wb4514 If you're going with the 509, we recommend you upgrade the entire cam chest while you're in there; new plate, oil pump, tensioner, lifters, everything. www.sscycle.com/products/chain-drive-cam-chest-kit-for-1999-06-hd-big-twin-except-06-dyna/

[@darylmobley6865]

what is the cost for a S&S stage ll cam and oil pump kit to go into a 2017 tri glide

[@SSCycleInc]

Parts alone you are looking at $1,567.95, plus whatever shop hours your installer charges as well as a full retune.

[@L8R2YA]

So do u have to run there pump with this plate or can i use stock ?

[@SSCycleInc]

We absolutely recommend running our oil pump and cam plate in conjunction together for best results.

[@camachotr6546]

Where can i get that beam torque wrench u guys are using?

[@wrenchingmyhog373]

Just got this kit and an s&s gear drive cam kit but one of the “Nachi” outer bearings included has too much play - is this common? It’s going to cause gear lash so I need to press out the cam and bearing and replace it.

[@SSCycleInc]

Give our tech line a call - 608-627-0296

[@uslandmanagement1]

Thank you

[@grumpyoldfart3891]

Can stock cams be used in this or are newer cams in my future?

[@SSCycleInc]

It is possible to run the stock cams, but since you are already opening up the chest and replacing parts you might as well upgrade your cams and get the most bang for your buck.

[@vikingraider1]

Why anybody wouldn't replace the cam chain tensioners whilst doing this job is beyond me. It just makes sense to replace this antiquated and dated chain driven system with gear driven cams instead. It’s a terrible design flaw on Harley’s part but the cynic in me thinks they did this as the tensioners would be a source of income for them when they need replacing.

[@SSCycleInc]

Some bikes already have too large of a pinion shaft runout to go to gear driven. If your runout is too large, the gear set won't work, and then we recommend upgrading the cam chain tensioners. If you're within runout, we recommend the gear driven cams!

[@ScopeandScanner]

I'm wanting to upgrade my 2003 Road King to a hydraulic chain tensioner to avoid issues later. If I use the S&S TC3 Oil Pump and Cam Plate, can I attach the new hydraulic tensioner to this plate? Or is it designed only for the older spring style tensioner? It would be nice if there were an upgrade kit such as the one HD sells in its Screaming Eagle catalog.

[@SSCycleInc]

Yes. You certainly can use a hydraulic tensioner. Our cam plate is compatible with the stock 2007-'up hydraulic chain tensioner, or our tensioners. Our cam plate for the early Twin Cam 88 engines is not even compatible the stock spring tensioner. We didn't want to encourage any bad habits! Our early plate also requires a late 2007-up oil pump. So you need to get the late style pump. BTW - we don't sell a hydraulic upgrade kit because you can reuse your stock sprockets and chains, so you don't have to spend extra money on parts you already have! Just get the pump, plate, and tensioners.

[@ScopeandScanner]

And just to make sure I understand you....I'm can order the cam plate for my 2003 Twin Cam 88 engine and I'm going to get a cam plate that, although is for the older style, this new plate design will accept the newer oil pump and tensioners. Is that correct?

[@SSCycleInc]

You got it!

[@davidknows3320]

Kenneth Wise some are happy with our twin cam bike's options that are not available to an evo. Personal preferences.

[@dufflebag420]

.. .. .. Thanks Bruce .. .. ..

[@deweydodo6691]

Was the installer the least bit interested in what the run out was on the crank?

[@SSCycleInc]

That wasn't the focus of this video, though we do go into it in our complete cam chest upgrade videos. When you are upgrading the entire cam chest we do recommend that you check to ensure your runout is within spec. This is a vital step when swapping to gear drive cams as well.

[@emantsal1643]

@ 0:49 Wait what? different bearing install procedure, like what? Pressing in the 2 new bearings that comes with the S&S Cycle - 33-5175 - Chain Drive Cam Installation Kit? you flew by this detail it would be very helpful to explain that too while you had the plate out and show the bearings too.

[@grumpyoldfart3891]

I agree

[@tomcata1467]

The first thing this mechanic should have done and shown, was to have put a dial indicator on the pinion shaft bearing to check for what the current, run out was. It should be ideally at .001" or less, because the flywheel assembly on the all TWIN CAM engines produced from 1999 to the present only have pressed together flywheels, there is no crank pin bolt and nut to hold the two halves of the flywheel together, unlike all previous, single cam Harley engines, like the EVO, PANHEADS, SHOVELHEADS, had to hold, the flywheel in true.This flywheel WILL COME OUT OF TRUE. As it progressively comes out of true the wobble on the pinion shaft you see here, will begin to exceed, the max allowable, run out and at 0.003" of run out, damage begins to occur to everything he just installed, including the cam shaft bearings, the oil pump, rotor and bearings, the pinion shaft bearings, the cam support bearings, etc., and CATASTROPHIC ENGINE FAILURE WILL OCCUR.The only solution, would be to tear down the entire engine and take the flywheel assembly to a performance specialty shop, before one would even think of changing out the cam support plate or oil pump with any kind of upgrade, cause it will all be for naught. The performance specialty shop will dynamically true, balance and plug and weld the flywheel together and achieve a max run out on the sprocket shaft and the pinion shaft of 0.001", or less and solve this particular problem.This engine has more than one way to self-destruct. It has two silent chain drives which has two, PLASTIC tensioners, which can be seen on the video, and they rub against a METAL, chain. Imagine the wear on the thumb-sized tensioners. Harley designed them to be periodically inspected and to be replaced when wear hits 3/32" of wear or approximately 50% of the stock, original thickness.Harley could have chosen to go with gear driven cams like the single cam big Twin Harley engines of yesterday, but, no, they went cheap and ensured a continuous, supply of service department and parts department usage by the consumer.Failure to replace a worn out PLASTIC, cam chain tensioner will result in the PLASITIC to break apart and be inducted into the oil pump crater it, and then you have METAL TO METAL CONTACT, since there is no more tensioner, and the METAL shavings produced will be sent all throughout the engine and cause, IMMEDIATE AND CATASTROPHIC ENGINE FAILURE.Imagine when the cratered oil pump starts to spew out hot, 250 degree + oil, onto the rear tire when one is at highways speed and the transmission is locked up, thus locking the rear tire up, too, and imagine the thrill ride for the rider and passenger, if they live to tell the tale.DON'T GET SNAKE BIT BY ONE OF THESE JUNK TWIN CAM ENGINES WHICH ALSO RUN EXTREMELY HOT.The only Harley to buy, in my opinion these days is the XL 1200, Sportster, cause it still uses the EVOLUTION engine design and is reliable and dependable. CAVEAT EMPTOR= LET THE BUYER BEWARE.

[@wrenchingmyhog373]

Run out is not a major concern with chain drives, that’s part of the reason chain drives are being used. Crappy cranks = more run out. Gear drive cams can’t be used if there’s more than .003” runout. My 99 fxdl has .002” so I went to gear drive.

[@46ace]

I'm no engineer: but if the broken plastic tensioner shoes are being ingested into the oil pump why isn't there a screen over the intake like my 1950s design Royal Enfield single? Or a steel cam chain "roller sprocket"on a bearing like an old Honda ( metal to metal rolling contact not plastic to metal rubbing)?? WTF MOCO? I'm Going to go ride my Enfield and count my cash in the safe(saved by not buying into the harley bullshit)...

[@DobermansRock]

Wow thanks for the PSA. It explains all the stories I hear.

[@SA-hk8xj]

tomcata1467 While some of your facts are true (ie plastic shoes will wear), the reason Harley or any motorcycle or automobile maker went to twin cam motors was due to stricter EPA enforcement regulations. Not only gas mileage per gallon, but emissions and noise levels. Why do you think our cars are getting made crappier with higher compression engines, aluminum bodies, and more frickin computer sensors than my own home computer?? Gone are the days of old school carburetor motors, points, leaded gas, etc. Haven’t you heard, our planet is melting 🤣😂 so we need to either salvage what old school vehicles we can or get stuck with what’s being offered and deal with it. I would love nothing more than to pay double for a totally rebuilt/new condition panhead than what I paid for my new 02 FLSTF, but I feel I got a little of both worlds (little old school, with a little new school improvement??). Pretty soon you will plug in those rides along with your cell phones and toaster, and Google or Alexa will tell you it will update your ride 😜🤪😝🤮But until then, I’ll deal with the little BS design issues THIS generation of HD bikes have and enjoy my ride.

[@varahabutterfly3782]

1999 to 2002 still had solid cranks I believe they changed to pressing them after that

[@Drifter212]

what is the benefit of installing this set ?

[@SSCycleInc]

Needless to say that if your engine has had a problem and debris has been circulated, a new oil pump and cam plate are in order. From there, we feel that the tighter tolerances and improved design of the S&S oil pump and cam support plate will improve the life of the engine. Our testing shows more consistent oil pressure, and the pump is designed to tolerate more pinion shaft run-out, which is a problem in late model engines.

[@taiwanreef]

@@SSCycleInc late model? about what year did pinion shaft run out become excessive?

[@SSCycleInc]

@@taiwanreef We've seen run out issues with all generations of Twin Cam engines.

[@jroxx11211]

isn't it easier to attach the oil pump to the cam plate and install it all in one piece?

[@SSCycleInc]

+jroxx11211 There are several reasons why we install the pump first, and install the cam plate afterward. We like the improved maneuverability and visibility it allows of the scavenge o-ring as the pump is installed. If that o-ring is damaged when the pump is installed the flywheel cavity will not be scavenged properly and the engine will over heat, puke oil, and may even loose power. But that's not the biggest reason. You have to turn the motor over while you torque the pump mounting bolts in order to correctly align the pump with the pinion shaft. If this is not done it can result in damage to the pump and the engine.

[@jroxx11211]

thanks

[@hddm3]

nice

[@jimmybarrett2933]

Does S&S sell oil pumps for Softail Breakout ?

[@SSCycleInc]

+Jimmy Barrett These particular pumps are available for any 1999-2016 big twin engine. We also have oil pumps for 1936-1999 OHV engines. So guess the answer is yes!

[@flyingdog1498]

Repeat after me, Duuuuuuh

[@thakery5720]

No matter what you think of S&S...... the oil pump is the best thing you can do..... the standard H-D AND THE SCREAMIN' EAGLE oil pump are absolute crap. the S&S scavenge and feed oil pump system is so superior that you cannot do a better thing for your twin Cam .... H-D stuff is just chap ass shit !!!!!

[@mikeskidmore6754]

Upgrade your HD.. Don't reward HD failuers by spending money on New HD Parts .. Use Improved aftermarket parts.. They are improved and a better value.. Or just Buy an Indian so you don't have so many failures..

[@ronaldswafford2142]

I'm buying a Milwaukee8

[@michaelboyle9133]

How much $$$$...? Not that there's any choice in the equation.

[@SSCycleInc]

Check them out on sscycle.com for info and pricing - it depends on the bike application

[@emantsal1643]

@@SSCycleInc On the 99-06 you have to buy the cam plate kit, then go look for the tensioners kit, then go look for the install kit, and find out you have to press the bearing in on the cam plate, why don't you guys make a full kit for the 99-06? do you have to tool to press the cam plate bearings in?

[@stanzastay-winning3278]

this is so much bull do u sale oil pumps for sportster r not

[@SSCycleInc]

+Crystina Gary Sorry! we don't have oil pumps for Sportster® models. Bull?

[@JohnnAttackGsxrPunx]

twin cam engines suck !