S4 E1 What and How to Know about the Restoration with Steve Harper

Join us for extra and fantastic content on our Patreon website each week (TSAR.website). This week Steve Harper talks about different ways to learn from the Restoration material there.
Also, you can get a 15% discount at Seagullbook.com on Church History and D&C products by using the code KERRY2025.
In this episode Steve Harper takes us through how we can know about the Restoration and how to learn about and think through the history and issues of the restoration. He helps us see family and other factors that brought Joseph Smith to the Grove, and how to think about that and understand that. He and Kerry discuss resources and go through little known stories that help us learn about Joseph Smith and those who knew and believed him.
We are grateful for our generous donors, and for Launchpad consulting studios for producing the episode, and for Rich Nicholls, who composed and plays the music for the podcast.

[@CBesendorfer]

The hardest part of being a widow is not having people to discuss scripture topics. So listening to your podcast is a great way to think about what we are learning and relearning. Thank You ❤

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

I had never thought of that. You made my day sharing this with us. I am so glad it has been helpful for you!

[@nancylowe2692]

I'm a widow too & I agree!❤

[@Gmato13]

I'm a widow and I agree as well! Such a blessing to me to listen and apply it to my own life. Thank you!

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

@@nancylowe2692 I am so happy to hear we can be part of your gospel study! Bless you!

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

@@Gmato13 I am so happy to hear that we can bless your life in any small way. Blessings to you!

[@MamaJLW]

Many years ago (~20), I was in a small group of women discussing our challenges. I mentioned how hard it can be for me to walk through the door into a church meeting. One of the sisters asked me why I still go to church. For her it was a no brainer. Since church is so hard, don’t go. I remember looking at her with disbelief at her suggestion. I had never thought to NOT go to church. I am at least a fifth generation member on each root of my family tree. Her follow up question changed my life. She merely asked, why? What followed was a period of deep, slow thinking. I couldn’t get her question out of my mind. I am forever grateful for her bluntness. The Holy Ghost guided me to distill my spiritual needs down to two essentials that I cannot live without AND cannot find elsewhere. I MUST have The Book of Mormon and a living prophet in my life. By extension I must also have other priesthood leadership and experiences in my life. Even though, at the time, ALL of my mental health needs were being fulfilled by another church’s programs, I COULD NOT disregard the fullness of the Gospel found in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The other congregation was superficial in comparison. They were more welcoming and supportive but lacked the foundation necessary for long term spiritual health. I determined that I would figure out how to ensure that my needs were met in my chosen church. It took a lot of effort to become more comfortable in church but I do it. The mental shift to true conversion allowed me to put in that effort. Even though I have had a few wobbles over policy and procedure changes, my core commitment has allowed me to go to the source and work through my misunderstandings. Heavenly Father ALWAYS gives me the understanding I need the few times this has happened.

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

This is a powerful and incredible story! Thank you so much for sharing. There are so many who could learn from you!

[@bobicusrex]

What I need is things to work and actual guidance in life. I know that the church is not true. Nelson is not a living prophet. I wanted the simple pleasant platitudes of the church. All I saw was abusive people abusing those who needed help the most. The church knocked me down when I served others because I needed service and guidance that I couldn't get from an abusive father in an abusive church. A Loved one of mine was abused into marrying someone she didn't want to marry instead of me because I served in both the military and a mission. Because she had a Mormon mother full of abuse from the church because of the generations of abuse created by Brigham Young's wickedness in how he settled Utah. Living in Utah I have seen the dark side of the church. The church leaders don't care about the church's members they don't care about people in actual need. They only care about their mansions above that they will never receive.

[@bobicusrex]

​@@TheScripturesAreRealto you it's powerful to me it's sad. You see a loving church and living "prophets". I see a hateful judgmental bigoted church rife with abuse and corruption. I see a selfish inbreeding family corporation. The church is evil and blasphemous. I used to see the church the way you did but now I see that it's not true. I know members are trying but there's just too much corruption and abuse in the LDS Church.

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

Happy New Year! (By the way, I think you would really enjoy our extra content for this episode (and future episodes too) on our Patreon website: TSAR.website).

[@juliehamilton5890]

I have felt similarly. When my (now) ex husband became abusive, my bishop & stake presidency asked what I was doing to "provoke" this behavior & were not super supportive. That really knocked me down, but the Spirit redirected me to realize this is the church of Jesus Christ, and not any of those men. I ignored them (the local church leaders, unfortunately) and really had to develop my relationship with Jesus Christ and not "trust in the arm of flesh". I cannot imagine what my life & my sons' lives would be like in the ensuing 30 years had I NOT had this church (partaking the sacrament, temple attendance, & now serving as a Sr. Missionary) in my life. I know & witness the Lord DOES hear our prayers and all things CAN be for our good. Just please know you are not alone & that our Heavenly Parents are intimately aware of you.

[@LifewithGrace65]

I’m thinking about Dr Harper’s comment about wondering if anyone cares about what you care about…or something to that effect. I can’t tell you both how much I appreciate and how much I learn from you all that give so freely of your time and education. I never had the opportunity to go on to higher education and didn’t join the church until I was 38 so there’s much to learn! So, thinking slowly here, Haha, there’s at least one person that values and learns at least one thing a day from these podcasts. Love you both, thanks again!

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

I am so very, very happy that any of this is helpful for you. I think you will love the line up we have for the podcast this year. Also, I think you would love the extra info you can get on our Patreon website at TSAR.website. In any case, I am just so glad this is helpful for you!

[@LifewithGrace65]

@ I have been to your webpage. Right now my son is making his way through the OT so I thought I would go back through your videos from the start as a refresher. It’s amazing how much we forget! I want to be some support to him. Thank you again, I really appreciate all that you and your guests teach us and am excited for the upcoming season! Happy New Year to you and your family!

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

@@LifewithGrace65 Happy New Year to you! I have some really big plans for things for the Old Testament year! I hope that will be helpufl too, though I know it is a year away.

[@Wendy-Ray]

@@LifewithGrace65 I think the beginning of the Old Testament year on this podcast is my all-time favorite of any podcast anywhere, because of the impact it had on how I see scripture and the love and laws of God. Just… Treasure. Treasure that keeps growing.

[@LifewithGrace65]

@@Wendy-Ray❤ so true!

[@ruthjamieson4072]

I love anything that Steven Harper has written. It is always so well done and so interesting.

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

I feel that same way!

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

Happy New Year! (By the way, I think you would really enjoy our extra content for this episode (and future episodes too) on our Patreon website: TSAR.website).

[@johnzimmerman4318]

This is a phenomenal discussion. Thank you!

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

@TheScripturesAreReal • 1 second ago I am so glad you enjoyed it and I hope it was helpful for you. You would probably enjoy the extra information you can get on our Patreon Website: TSAR.website.

[@Shae-qj9sn]

This episode was wonderful. Had to listen to it twice. Thank you, brother Harper.

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@JosephChild1]

I really enjoyed brother Harper's "Let’s talk about the law of Consecration" book. Thanks for that recommendation. I thought it was fitting that I would read that at the same time I was preparing to teach the 5th Sunday lesson on covenants. I was taught so many good things this week. I find that our wants and our needs don't often align. We often want one thing and the Lord knows we need another. And sometimes when we don't receive our wants or the gospel becomes a little harder than we want, even though it's exactly what we need, we tend to look for reasons to doubt. That leads to forgetting all the great things the Lord has done for us. That leads to leaving the Lord and that leads to bitterness and unhappiness. We will always find what we are looking for. Let's re-consecrate ourselves and remember and study our covenants. Live the gospel, especially when it becomes difficult. If we do that, we will find the Lord and we will discover joy.

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

I agree 100%!!! And you will be glad to know that we are having Dr. Harper back on to talk about consecration when section 42 comes up!

[@juliehamilton5890]

Thank you for the recommendation of Dr. Harper's book. And thanks too that it is on Internet Archive, until I can get my own copy. You two are in the top 5 of favorite teachers to listen to. Always well thought out, clear, and the perspective you each bring is much appreciated. 👍👍

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

I am so very glad that it is helpful for you! I love doing stuff with Steve. He is so good!!!

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

Happy New Year! (By the way, I think you would really enjoy our extra content for this episode (and future episodes too) on our Patreon website: TSAR.website).

[@matthewpickering8218]

Thank you so much for your discussion of D&C 66. I really needed to hear that. 🙏

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

I am happy it was helpful!

[@rwestdds]

Thank you so much for this amazing discussion! My son is fortunate to take Brother Harper’s Doctrine and Covenants class this upcoming semester. I pray that he will be attentive and that a miraculous change of heart and desire will take place in the coming months.

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

If anyone can inspire and reach people it is Dr. Harper. Blessings to you and him!

[@rwestdds]

@@TheScripturesAreRealthank you Brother Muhlestein! Appreciate you and your insightful uplifting content.

[@melaniemilby8115]

I’m so glad that you took the time to explain the benefits of slowing down in our learning process. I believe this makes a huge difference in what we can actually comprehend and how we can grow and help others. Lots of practical application bits to engage with here. Thanks!

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

It is so helpful for me too!

[@arellchapman1848]

I enjoyed the discussion on slow thinking. Thank you.

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

I am so glad it was helpful for you! I enjoyed it too!

[@strplngwarriormom]

Thank you for putting into words the difference I've experienced the past couple years - slowing down my reading & studying so I can focus on my impressions, connections, and thoughts

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

It is a wonderful experience, isn't it!?!

[@CherylEdvalson]

Wow….this is such a good study! I’ve been reading “slowly” Steven Harper’s latest book Wrestling with the Restoration for a month or so now. Analyzing my own thought process, may I dare say, opens my heart and mind to hear the Spirit witness truth to me. It’s remarkable really. Thank you both for your time and teachings!

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

There is just a lot of good stuff in what Steve is walking us through!

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

Happy New Year! (By the way, I think you would really enjoy our extra content for this episode (and future episodes too) on our Patreon website: TSAR.website).

[@tosaveamerica]

Thank you for podcast Kerry and having great guest. I really love and appreciate faithful scholars like Steven Harper as they focus back to Prophets

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

I do too!!!!

[@LynneWalters-s3y]

Your comments and insights have answered my prayers - thank you so much.

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

That is the most wonderful thing I could hear!

[@lauramuhlestein765]

Thank you. Your generosity of spirit has helped me be very excited to “discover” many things!

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

That is just what we hope for my friend!

[@bobicusrex]

Nelson is not a prophet. He's a corrupt man fighting dementia trying to pretend that the church is true. BYU creates the most hateful judgmental bigoted toxic people in the LDS Church.

[@Wendy-Ray]

Thank you for this conversation-definitely one to review regularly!

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

For me too!

[@cathyknappen4467]

Great podcast. Thanks for sharing your insights and understandings on this. 🙂

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

I am so glad you enjoyed it and I hope it was helpful for you. You would probably enjoy the extra information you can get on our Patreon Website: TSAR.website.

[@kimhulbert8449]

Love learning from these 2 men. Thank you for planting the idea of thinking slow. Something I will be more cognisant of while studying the scriptures, from now on.

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

I believe it will be helpful for all of us to do that!

[@CissyJordan-n7t]

So enjoyed this podcast and like your new setting. Enjoy Steve Harper and his comments and perhaps he will come again. Am going to order his book and I am sure it will help me with better understanding the Restoration. Thx for your time and those of your guests.

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

You will love the book!

[@Hgwells159]

Love listening to both of you❤ Great video!!!!

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

I had such a great time in this discussion. I just hope others do as well. You will love the extra discussion on the Patreon website as well (TSAR.website)

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

Happy New Year! (By the way, I think you would really enjoy our extra content for this episode (and future episodes too) on our Patreon website: TSAR.website).

[@IdahoHurst]

Love the concept of "Thinking slow so you know" I will try to apply this in my life!

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

I think it can be a key way to study scriptures and everything else! I think you will love the extra content on our Patreon website: TSAR.website. Bless you!

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

Happy New Year! (By the way, I think you would really enjoy our extra content for this episode (and future episodes too) on our Patreon website: TSAR.website).

[@noelhausler2911]

On the thinking issue I found Hare Brain Tortoise Mind: How Intelligence Increases When You think Less. "Did you make that Song Up? "Well I sort of made it up "said Pooh "It isn't Brain, but it comes to me sometime "Ah said Rabbit, who never let things come to him. but always went and fetched them. AA Milne The House of Pooh Corner.

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

Brilliant!

[@maryannstout7600]

This discussion touches upon so many experiences of my life that I’m not sure how to respond. I can’t begin to describe it. All I can say is thank you, your words have helped a lot.

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

I am so very, very happy to hear that! Bless you!

[@lujeanjensen3315]

Thank You! I'm going to try and think more slowly about what matters most. And see what I discover instead of trying to cover everything. Great teaching!

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

It makes a difference! I hope you are blessed by this. Thanks for being part of us!

[@maryschaubhuth7442]

Thank you both for your Books and your teachings at Education Week❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

If what we do is helpful, I am so thrilled!

[@karenpoch]

I loved this discussion and I’m sure I’ll listen to it again soon. I think it takes time and work to train yourself to slow your thinking down. It’s something I need to consistently focus on when I study. I have found when I write my thoughts down about a verse in my annotations in the gospel library app, that many times when I revisit it I need to make corrections in my thinking. Writing helps me process what I am reading and understanding. If I have an unanswered question as I read, I will write that down too and add a tag named, Questions I Have. Sometimes upon another reading I will be able to answer my own question. Linking scriptures has also helped me to understand better the doctrines I’m studying. I wonder if there are other exercises anyone else uses to help slow their thinking down. I would love to hear from others about additional techniques to slow their thinking down.

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

It does take time, but that method of study yields such wonderful results!

[@renatemckendry104]

Loved it! Thank you so much! ❤🇨🇦

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

I am so happy if we are helpful for you in any way!

[@renatemckendry104]

@@TheScripturesAreReal ❤❤

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

@@renatemckendry104 Happy New Year! (By the way, I think you would really enjoy our extra content for this episode (and future episodes too) on our Patreon website: TSAR.website).

[@renatemckendry104]

@@TheScripturesAreReal thank you, I will! Have a wonderful new year! ❤🇨🇦

[@OAQ24]

One of your topics in this discussion has really helped me understand why I have such difficulty sharing my thoughts about gospel topics. I have many thoughts and who knows, maybe some of them are actually good, but I rarely share them. Your comments about Hyrum helped me realize that I might still be in a place where I'm "obtaining" the word. I only hope that it will be obvious to me when obtaining is done and sharing should start. Or is this all just rationalization for being a shy person?

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

I am not sure we need to figure out the difference between those two.

[@tinacarvalhoBodyandHealth]

Yo! go on. We are listening

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

I am glad!

[@alexanderv7702]

Some single Saints experience loneliness, too.

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

That is absolutely true. I think most single saints do.

[@velocirapture89]

never!

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

Happy New Year! (By the way, I think you would really enjoy our extra content for this episode (and future episodes too) on our Patreon website: TSAR.website).

[@velocirapture89]

I think most people dislike ambiguity, and the students you work with, as recently returned missionaries, are probably the least tolerant toward ambiguity of anybody. A mission instills a sense of certainty and confidence within you -- which is good -- but, it's not the end-all be-all. I think a lot of people really believe that they know more than they truly know.

[@dr33776]

Then lds prophets should not declare doctrine and then backtrack when their statements don’t hold up to science and the historical record. The leaders have caused more disaffection than anything else and that’s why members keep leaving.

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

Helping students deal with ambiguity is one of our great tasks!

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

I think that many have left because they think this has happened. They are mistaken, and have not thought slowly, and have jumped to assumptions, which is what the problem we are addressing is all about. Those quick assumptions lead to the conclusion you speak of.

[@ClarkClub]

“You don’t know everything, but you know enough!” I loved the talk by Elder Andersen titled "You Know Enough" back when I originally heard it in 2008, and I still love it. He also gave a talk in 2007 titled, "It’s True, Isn’t It? Then What Else Matters?" in which he repeated a story told by Pres. Hinckley.

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

@@ClarkClub Those are great talks! We need to get that kind of word out there again!

[@AugustErotiseistope]

🙏

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

I am so glad it is helpful for you!

[@Charity_never_Faileth]

I guess defending Joseph Smith is not "In Line with the Gospel of Jesus Christ". I hope Steven learns to better use the spirit of discernment to what is real, what is truth and what are lies, not real and deceit. You both could learn some more on how to do that one.

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

I am not sure I understand what you are saying. Since we spent the whole time talking about how you can learn for yourself that Joseph Smith is a prophet, and since Steve said again and again that those who knew Joseph best believed him most, and that since we studied his life a lot we believed him most, I guess I am not sure what would cause you to think that we were doing anything but defending Joseph Smith, and encouraging people to find out for themselves with full confidence that they can and will. I certainly don't want to create the wrong impression, so I would really love it if you could tell me how we created the impression you received here. Thank you!

[@beatricesavasta6710]

I'm all for applying espistemology principles, but they need to be well understood. I think I misused them in the past and was the worse for it as I was led to doubt my testimony.

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

I hope that what we talked about here helps. I have a chapter about it (that I think/hope is very helpful) in my book Let Talk about the Book of Abraham. I think it is just what our youth and YSA's need.

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

Happy New Year! (By the way, I think you would really enjoy our extra content for this episode (and future episodes too) on our Patreon website: TSAR.website).

[@lyndacramer8828]

When you talk about needing evidences for my testimony it sounds to me like you want me to have less faith. I agree that the more I know about Joseph the stronger my testimony of him is. But my testimony is based on a witness of the holy Ghost not on what people said about him

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

I very much agree that our testimonies are based on witnesses from the Holy Ghost. I also believe that the Spirit speaks to our minds and hearts, and that the more we learn about and understand about the Restoration the more the Spirit can bear witness to us, and the more we can learn and understand. I also believe that I can know intellectually as well as spiritually, thought the spiritual witness is more reliable, stronger, and more important. The focus should be on the Spirit bearing witness, but in doing one, we should not leave the other undone.

[@thedailydump7407]

Josep Smith was never in Utah. Killed in Carthage Illinois before the Utah era.

[@TheScripturesAreReal]

That is true, but I don't remember saying he was in Utah.

[@thedailydump7407]

@@TheScripturesAreReal Oops that comment was meant for the previous video I watched. 😂